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Who Is Rachel Jeantel?
Aired June 27, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOCTOR DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, the state star witness, the last woman to speak to Trayvon Martin before he died. She was on the phone with him when he was killed by George Zimmerman. Was this teen aimer bullied by the defense?
RACHEL JEANTEL, THE LAST PERSON TRAYVON MARTIN SPOKE: Trayvon got hit.
DON WEST, DEFENSE LAWYER: You don`t know that do you?
PINSKY: Will the jury feel compassion for her? Did she change the course of this trial? Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARK EIGLARSH, HLN HOST: Good evening, everyone. I`m Mark Eiglarsh sitting in for my friend Dr. Drew. What a privilege it is to be here tonight.
My co-host, you know her, she`s the shy, meek and introverted attorney and Sirius XM host Jenny Hutt.
Good evening, Jenny.
JENNY HUTT, HLN HOST: Hey.
EIGLARSH: We have too much cover tonight. Let`s jump right in.
Rachel Jeantel was the last woman to speak to Trayvon Martin. She was on the phone with him the moment before he was killed by George Zimmerman. She was grilled again in her second day on the stand, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re back On the Record. State versus Mr. George Zimmerman.
WEST: Are you OK this morning?
WEST: You seem so different than yesterday.
JEANTEL: I told you. He sound tired. Because I had told him keep running.
WEST: He was tired from running?
JEANTEL: Yes, sir.
WEST: Is what you assumed.
JEANTEL: Yes, sir.
WEST: As if he had run a long way. So the last thing you heard was some kind of noise like something hitting somebody.
JEANTEL: Trayvon got hit. Trayvon got hit.
WEST: You don`t know that, do you?
JEANTEL: No, sir.
WEST: You don`t know that Trayvon got hit.
JEANTEL: He would could -- he had --
WEST: You don`t know that Trayvon didn`t at that moment take his fist and drive it into George Zimmerman`s face. Do you?
JEANTEL: No, sir.
WEST: Trayvon Martin started the fight and you knew that.
JEANTEL: No, sir.
WEST: You method it was justified because it was one that you knew Trayvon Martin was planning to start.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: What a day in court. And we`re going to analyze it all hour long. I`ve got a stellar panel with us tonight, intelligent and good- looking. We`ve got Michael Skolnick, editor of globalgrind.com and board member of Trayvon Martin foundation. Crystal Wright from conservativeblackchick.com. And TV attorney judge Lauren Lake and former prosecutor Loni Coombs, author of love this title., you`re perfect and otherwise parents tell.
All right, Lauren, I`m going to start with you. So, we all watched riveting testimony today of a Ms. Jeantel, a critical witness for a state, so I guess we are clear now, 100 percent, exactly of what happened during that phone call, right?
LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Of course we`re not and we`ll never be Mark, you know that. And fortunately for all of us, that`s for the jury to decide. But what I will say is I have just been really disappointed at the level of disrespect that I have seen thrown at this young girl, this witness as she presented her story. No, she wasn`t sophisticated and not necessarily very intellectual about it. But it was obvious that she didn`t lack -- she lacked the skills to cope and to really navigate through this gracefully. But she told her truth. She didn`t tell it the same way every time. But I think the gist of her story is pretty much the same.
EIGLARSH: And Michael, do you agree? Are we now crystal clear? She`s saying the gist has been told. I`m not sure which version was actually clear. What are you thinking?
MICHAEL SKOLNIK, EDITOR, GLOBALGRIND.COM: I think Rachel did a phenomenal job today. I think she got her Don West skin and made him get irritated and just made him attack her and attack her and attack her. I don`t think the jury liked that at all. I think you have seen a young teenage girl, you know, trying to defend her friend and consistently, she knew dates, she knew times, she knew more dates than Don West is. She stuck to her story over and over again and a frustrated Don West. And go, Rachel go.
EIGLARSH: Michael, there were clearly glowing inconsistencies. I`m not taking any sides here. But, let me just -- I will ask Loni.
Loni, there`s consistent -- inconsistencies here. What`s the jury going to do with that? Which story are they going to bought?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. That`s why she is such a question mark for the jury. Look, she did something for the prosecution that was amazing. She somehow brought all the emotions that are sitting there for Trayvon Martin and they were transferred somehow to this witness. There`s sympathy, there`s empathy, there`s so much protectiveness going on for her.
But, I`m going to say something and this is not disrespect, Laure. She was not precise in what she was saying. She changed her story and I`m not saying she lied, I`m not saying she was being purposefully inaccurate. But we know the kids, they are multi tasking and things are going on.
If you ask your own child, just a normal, any day question, they could give you five different answers and it will drive you crazy because you want precision. And Attorneys want precision and accuracy. This witness didn`t do that and that`s why it`s going to be hard for the jury because they need precision on that critical issue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Loni, I agree with you but that should have been coached. She should have been --
EIGLARSH: Is she coachable? Wait. Lauren, is she coachable?
LAKE: She absolutely is coachable and I believe someone had words with her. That`s why today she`s different than she was --
EIGLARSH: Wait a minute. Well, here`s -- wait. I want to go to --
Can I say something?
EIGLARSH: Go ahead, Crystal. Go ahead then I want to go Jean Casarez. Because I want to know, she was in the courtroom. Go ahead.
First of all, two things. I mean, I don`t know what testimony you guys were watching. But Rachel`s testimony was not only inconsistent, she was liar, liar, pants on fire.
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: She done with that outfit. She lied about her age. She`s lied about the phone call when Trayvon, she didn`t want to hurt Trayvon`s mom. And she lied under oath so many times it wasn`t even funny. And she was totally disrespectful. I felt like I was watching an episode from "Saturday Night Live." She looked at Don West today --
"Saturday night live"? Wait.
WRIGHT: You sound retarded.
EIGLARSH: Hold everything. I want to about to Jean Casarez. Guys, hold it. Little boxes, hold. I want to did to Jean Casarez -- I`m in the big box. I guess it is right now. Jean Casarez was actually inside the courtroom today.
Jean, I want did know how the jurors are reacting to her.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: You know, they were very focused. I don`t think they were as on the edge of their seats as they yesterday. They were settle back a little bit. But there was one juror, she is blond, and she is taking copious notes. She will even stop at one point today and she said, I can`t hear that, the answer. And so, the court reporter had to read it back. She is quite a leader in that group of women, the group of six.
EIGLARSH: Can I ask you this? Go on. Who want to jump in? Crystal had something to say. Who was that, Jenny?
WRIGHT: Yes, well -- I was just -- sorry, jenny.
EIGLARSH: Go, jenny, go.
HUTT: I was just --
EIGLARSH: Can you tell it`s my first time? Jenny, go, speak.
HUTT: Thank you. OK, I just felt like Don West was super disrespectful to Rachel and I get as a defense attorney on cross he`s doing his job by being a tiny bit argumentative. But I found him condescending and somewhat nasty. And that that, if I were a juror, a female juror, that would anger me so much. And I don`t think that bodes well for him in the long run, frankly.
EIGLARSH: I know Michael`s dying. Wait, Michael`s dying to jump in, go, Michael, go.
SKOLNIK: I`m just confused. OK, she admitted she lied about the hospital. She lied about her age to protect her own pain. Where were her inconsistencies in her story? What lies did she tell about the evidence?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
EIGLARSH: Hold on. Loni, go ahead, Loni, go.
COOMBS: Let me ask all the little boxes for all those who say that they think she is totally believable and credible. At this point in the testimony, what do you think Trayvon actually said when he turned around and looked at George Zimmerman? Which of the sentences that she gave in court do you believe is the truth?
SKOLNIK: Why are you following me?
WRIGHT: I think it`s hard to tell.
EIGLARSH: There`s no consensus? Hold on.
WRIGHT: That she -- I didn`t say that she -- parts of her testimony are credible because she totally blows up this racially charged narrative that everybody has pushed since last year.
EIGLARSH: Wait, go back to what Loni asked. Hold on, everybody. Stop.
Loni asked an important question. It`s important for these jurors to sort out exactly what was said. And she conceded herself she gave different versions at different times for different reasons.
EIGLARSH: Show of hands right now. Who is 100 percent clear on what was said in that telephone conversation? Show of hands.
LAKE: The gist of it, I am.
HUTT: The gist, I am.
EIGLARSH: The gist? Is the gist enough? Hold on, Crystal. Is the gist enough to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt for these jurors?
WRIGHT: No, I don`t think it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But Mark, it`s not about just --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think there`s enough proof --
EIGLARSH: Go ahead, Lauren, go.
LAKE: It is not just about exactly what she said. It`s the way her testimony will line up with other evidence that`s been presented in the case including the 911 call.
LAKE: And the time that goes along with it. Is what she`s saying happened consistent with what happens --
EIGLARSH: But Lauren. Lauren, who is more compelling --
WRIGHT: I can`t believe you`re saying that. What about facts?
LAKE: I`m sorry, what are you talking about? The 911 call is a piece of evidence that go with it and the jury is the finder of fact in this case.
EIGLARSH: Michael --
LAKE: So, it`s for them to line that up --
WRIGHT: You said it, fact, facts. Not emotion, Lauren.
EIGLARSH: Hold on, Michael. Guys, stop.
Michael, question to you. Doesn`t her testimony have to be clear? When they go to the jury room, don`t they have to decide what happened? Isn`t she a critical witness and don`t you feel that there`s some doubt as to what took place?
SKOLNIK: I think what`s very clear what happened was Trayvon turned back to George, why are you following me? And he tried to run away as fast as he can from George Zimmerman. He was going to his daddy`s house. He was running from him. He was not looking for him. He was trying to get away from him. He was not the aggressor.
EIGLARSH: All right. Listen, the panel`s going to stay with us. I have a lot more for all of you guys. The fact that we could not come up with a consensus as to what was said, to me, that is significant. We`re going to carry that over into next block.
And also coming up, I want to go back to that knock-knock joke-telling attorney. We all know who he is. I`m still bothered by it. I can`t get over it, OK?
And later, we are going to analyze who is Rachel Jeantel? We`re going to look at some of her tweets and other things that may reveal the answer.
We are going to comeback after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: Knock-knock. Who`s there? George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman who? All right, good. You`re on the jury. Nothing? That`s funny.
No more bad jokes, I promise that. I`m convinced it was the delivery, though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: Welcome back to Dr. Drew on call. I`m Mike Eiglarsh sitting in for my friend, Dr. Drew, Tonight. My co-host is Jenny Hutt.
Now, opening up your defense with a knock-knock joke.
Jen, I`m still not through this. I need some therapy on this one. I can`t believe he did it. I would never do that at trial. I`m wondering, do you think that the jurors have moved on?
HUTT: No, I think his whole attitude needs a readjustment. That`s what I really think about this defense attorney. I think he`s a little too high and mighty. He thinks he`s so awesome, frankly. And even if he is a superstar attorney, and I get that he`s smart and stuff, I think he`s demeanor needs to be worked on, especially with this jury of women and especially with how he is treating this witness.
Listen, regardless of whether we like her delivery or not, this specific witness, her story I believe is her truth and I get that there are inconsistencies from prior testimony that she gave in a deposition. But again, I think it was in the interests of just protecting her emotional state, not about protecting Trayvon.
EIGLARSH: Loni, let me ask you. Are the jurors past the knock-knock thing?
COOMBS: No, no. And I don`t think they ever will get that out of their minds. I think he really hurt himself in so many ways. First of all, I think the jurors probably didn`t listen to the first hour of his opening statement after that. They were so turned off. But, what really hurt him is in the cross examination of this witness.
Now look, I understand everybody wants to protect this witness and feels so, you know, empathetic towards her. But because of her lack of precision what he needed to do was really go in and pinpoint down every single word of what she was saying Trayvon said that night. He didn`t do that. He pulled his punch. He held back. And while you think he was aggressive I thought he was handling her with kid gloves and he really hurt his case. He needed to dig in there and be precise.
EIGLARSH: Lauren, let me ask you something. Lauren, first of all what people don`t know is the defense in Florida, we get to depose witnesses. They deposed this gal for four hours. It looked like he was just up there meandering around. What do you think?
LAKE: No, absolutely. I don`t think he`s utilizing his trial 101 skills. I even believe he`s asking too many questions that aren`t leading. He`s giving her so much time to kind of throw in her answers.
And look, I`ve been a defense attorney so I keep it real. I, you know, really am rooting for this witness because I do feel like she`s a fish out of water. And she doesn`t have the skills to cope in this situation. But as the defense attorney, I don`t feel like he`s doing his job well. And him doing his job well is justice being served.
EIGLARSH: Crystal, he`s got to be doing something right. Yes? Anything?
WRIGHT: Well, I thought the knock-knock joke was totally inappropriate. It was offensive. And I thought his opening statement was too long. He was catatonic. It was just bad. But, I thought today and yesterday, in his questioning of Rachel, I don`t think he was aggressive with her at all. And I agree with I think it was Lauren who said, or I`m sorry, I`m forgetting now. But I think somebody just said that he was -- he treated her respectfully.
He did -- sometimes he said, Rachel, I know this is tough and I`m not trying to blame you, we`re just trying to get to answers. And she was disrespectful, especially the first day when she rolled her eyes and she looked at him and said, what? I got to stay here? I mean, come on, guys. He`s going on too long. I just want to finish one thing. He`s going on too long with her, he needs to wrap it up.
EIGLARSH: All right, Jen, you want to get in here, go ahead.
HUTT: I just have to say one thing, OK? I understand that yesterday there were sometimes that people thought she was a touch argumentative. Great. She comes back today and at one point he looks at her and he says, you seem very different today, did someone talk to you? Like as if she had been naughty and had been scolded and therefore was coming back a different person. Frankly --
WRIGHT: Come on, Jenny.
EIGLARSH: We`re going to analyze, we`ll analyze in behavior bureau exactly how -- what she`s about. And how she received it. I want to focus one more.
Michael, let me ask you, do you think there was anything he did that was it`s are offensive or condescending? I mean, clearly they`re from different schools, these two. I mean, different generations. What do you think?
SKOLNIK: No, I think there was a disconnect of culture. I think he didn`t know how to approach her culturally, I think he was so taken aback by how she was speaking to him he didn`t know how to approach her. But, I do think this. His job is to keep his client off the witness stand. I think so far, very, very testy waters whether or not George has to take the stand or not. You have five witnesses in a row who have said that George was the aggressor. At a certain point, George may have to get on the stand. If he does they`re in trouble.
EIGLARSH: All right, we are going to talk about race. Let`s shift.
Apparently race was not supposed to be part of this case, right? Well, it is. And if we`re talking about Don West, this was my moment where I literally, I yelled at the screen. When he asked, he asked the witness, why do you think? You think race is part of this? You think this is racial? Well, he brought, and literally took this gal, Rachel Jeantel, and gave a chance for her to explain why she thought race was a part of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: One thing about what Trayvon Martin told you that made you think this was racial?
JEANTEL: Describing the person that was watching him and following him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: Loni, a good move by the defense to ask that question? I`m trying not to judge here but I would never do it.
COOMBS: No. You know and I know and every attorney on this panel knows the first rule of cross examination is you don`t ask the question you don`t know the answer to. And he just opened that up for her and she really showed right there, you know what? I`m not seeing this case the way you`re seeing it. I have a totally different viewpoint of this. I`m seeing it through my own eyes and they`re very different from where you stand behind the lectern and your generation and your culture.
And I actually think that was an interesting moment for everyone to see there. And in a way, she told more in that answer than, you know, she meant to, probably.
EIGLARSH: Let me ask you, Crystal.
Now, this was supposed to be the prosecutor`s star witness, Rachel Jeantel. I mean, there is no question, she`s the only -- there`s no eyewitnesses that are alive, because conveniently, you know, by his own admission, Zimmerman killed the only other eyewitness. So we`ve got an ear-witness. Do you think the state was happy with how she did?
WRIGHT: If I were -- was the state, I wouldn`t be happy with Rachel`s performance because I think it really helped the defense. But more importantly, what everybody has said tonight that disturbs me is, while you guys aren`t coming out and saying it, if Don West were black, if he was black, you wouldn`t be saying that he was aggressive, that he was talked down to her. I mean, Michael just said --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Trayvon Martin was white, he wouldn`t be --
WRIGHT: Excuse me, let me finish.
EIGLARSH: Hold on. Let her finish.
WRIGHT: Let me finish. I didn`t interrupt you all. Now, OK. So you said that Michael just said he didn`t know how to approach Rachel. Why, they both speak English. I mean, what you`re saying is he didn`t, Michael, it was cult cultural, right, because black people and white people can`t communicate. I find that highly disgusting as a black woman. I communicate with people from different cultures. I communicate with Spanish people, white people. I`ve been doing it since I was a little girl.
EIGLARSH: Jen, go.
HUTT: OK. First of all, first of all --
EIGLARSH: Hold on, we`ve got a lot to say, hold on. Go ahead, Jen.
HUTT: You just made a blanket statement that everybody was saying that the way he was treating her had to do with race. Frankly, not for me.
EIGLARSH: Hold on, don`t talk over each other. Go, Jen.
WRIGHT: I`m sorry, it was so -- subliminal message, what message in the only message I would say is this was a girl who he was talking down to. Not because she was black, because she wasn`t as well educated as he is, which could come in any form, black, white, or any. I disagree with you wholeheartedly.
EIGLARSH: All right, hold on. Michael, quickly, go.
SKOLNIK: Well, Crystal, first of all, Spanish people are from Spain. So, folks who speak Spanish are not all Latino, first of all. Second of all, that Rachel Jeantel, OK. Rachel Jeantel was speaking just fine and Don West was the one who kept saying, I can`t understand you, I can`t understand you, I can`t understand you. She was having a difficulty. I had no difficulty.
EIGLARSH: All right. Hold on. We have got a whole show on this subject matter. But next, we`re going to try to figure out who is Rachel Jeantel? The behavior bureau will answer that question.
And also, later, we`re going to see what Trayvon Martin`s family thought of this star witness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: Are you OK this morning?
WEST: You seem so different than yesterday. Did someone talk with you last night about your demeanor in court yesterday?
JEANTEL: No, I went to sleep.
PINSKY: A young girl who`s now in the middle of a storm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not saying you did anything wrong so please don`t take it that way. I`m trying to understand the dynamics of this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These white men with this young woman on the stand --
WEST: If I`m harsh in my tone I`m not because I`m suggesting you did anything wrong here.
CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I just had the sense they had absolutely no idea what Rachel`s life is like.
WEST: But, I`m trying to understand what the overall context of this first law enforcement interview was.
ARUTT: Rachel was talking on the stand --
PINSKY: Cheryl, that is my point, that`s exactly my point. I`m not sure I fully get it either, I want to understand it and people are talking about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: I`m Mark Eiglarsh, sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. And I`m back with co-host Jenny Hutt and our behavior bureau.
Hold on. This is very unusual, I don`t get invited to the all-woman behavior bureau. I feel like I`m crashing a sorority party, it`s nice to be here.
Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "30-day love detox," Samantha Schacher, host of pop trigger on the Young Turks Network, therapist Tiffanie Davis Henry and criminal investigator, Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."
I have been waiting all day to ask this question. I am going to start with Danine because I don`t get it. Who is Rachel Jeantel?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, just first, let me say that this was a cultural collision of ethnic proportions. This was two completely different worlds colliding. That`s what we saw today. And people seem to not want to acknowledge or maybe don`t realize that in a lot of minority communities, especially in the black community, there is a distinct distrust of the police and the justice system.
And so, what we have as a girl who`s in a situation that nobody wants to be in, especially from her community, where she is a witness in a criminal case. I mean, we are talking about this whole no snitching generation. So she is completely a fish out of water here. And rather than pay attention to her mannerisms and the way she`s saying things, we just need to focus on the content of what she`s saying and the validity of her answers.
EIGLARSH: Well, let me ask you, Wendy. How do you think these six all- women jurors received her in that courtroom?
WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR SPECIALIST: Well, I think she might have had some compassion for her. And I want to tell a story here and I want the black women on the behavioral bureau to back me up if you think I`m valid.
My children are African-American on a cheer leading team. That`s all black team. We have a lot of trouble when they are in performance of getting them to smile. They seem to look angry when it comes to big performances. And we`ve realized that that is a default sometimes when they`re nervous.
This is a 19-year-old girl. The world`s spotlight is on her. She`s probably feeling very nervous. And to appear sort of defensive might be just a natural default for her. Does anyone agree with me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I agree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know if this black woman can agree with that, necessarily. That not smiling means that I`m nervous.
EIGLARSH: Go ahead. Tell them.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Could mean a whole number of things. Certainly if that`s your experience of them and that`s what they say they feel, then that`s what we have to take it as. I think that this witness didn`t want to be there. She was the most reluctant witness I`ve ever seen and she made that very clear. And I think that came across in her testimony, it came across in her mannerisms and how she delivered her message, and I think that both the witness as well as the defense attorney both were a little frustrated with one another. I don`t think it was one- sided at all.
EIGLARSH: Samantha, I want to bring you into the discussion.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST, POP TRIGGER ON THE YOUNG TURKS NETWORK: Yes, Go ahead, Mark.
EIGLARSH: Well, I noticed a significant difference between her behavior yesterday and today. Did you notice the same thing?
SCHACHER: I did notice a difference. And you know what, maybe she was coached, maybe she was more comfortable today. But at the end of the day, what we have to remember is she comes from a different set of circumstances than, per se, what I do. We need to be more empathetic.
And just because her demeanor or her dialect is, per se, different than mine does not mean that she`s not a credible witness and does not mean that she`s not there to speak her own truth.
EIGLARSH: All right. Let`s look at some of Rachel Jeantel`s recent tweets. Jenny, I`m going to come back and get your reaction. Some of these have since been deleted. OK? Let`s take a look at this. All right. First, June 23rd, she tweeted, "court nails," and there`s the photograph. Lovely court nails. On June 21st, she tweeted, "16 months later, wow, I need a drink." I guess, she was referring to milk.
On May 28th, she tweeted, quote, "This S-word right here going to make me smoke. I need a drink a lot." And on March 5th, she tweeted, "Remember who caused the funeral to happen, keep it 100 percent real Mr. A-Ho. Damn, they pissed me off." OK, first, Danine, go ahead.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: There are three things we`re dealing with here. One, we`re dealing a silly teenager, I have some at home. Their brains aren`t developed until they`re 25, one. Number two, we`re dealing with this voyeuristic generation of kids that it`s not important to do, unless, it`s put out there for the world to see on the internet.
And number three, it`s just -- we`re assuming that this child -- this young lady should be taking this as seriously as the rest of us are, but the truth of the matter is is that the community that she probably comes from, it`s not unusual to have violence and homicides and assaults and things like that. So, she`s probably a little bit more numb to the violence that the rest of us would be, you know, up in arms about.
EIGLARSH: Jenny --
EIGLARSH: Jenny, the question I have for you is, do these six women from Sanford, Florida, get her? Do they understand that?
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: I actually -- I believe I do get her, OK? So, let me start with --
EIGLARSH: You do, yes.
HUTT: -- TV nails, OK? People post things like pictures of their nails wherever they go. That`s part of everyone`s call for today. OK? Let`s start with that. Number two, whoever just said -- was it Danine who just said she has teenagers and their brains aren`t finished till they`re 25? Exactly. She`s 19 years old. So, there`s that. I get that, too.
She`s just telling her story. This is to her what happened. That`s all I`m paying attention to. And the stuff with the attorney and Don West who I think is disrespectful, frankly. I`ll stick with that. I do believe that. It`s just unnecessary as far as I`m concerned. This is just a 19- year-old who`s being a 19-year-old who`s telling her story, who`s been impacted by it. It was her friend. And that`s what it is. I happen to believe her. That`s it.
EIGLARSH: Tiffany, you wanted to jump in, go.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., THERAPIST: One of the things that she`s been very consistent with over the past two days is that her thought bubble is very much out loud. What she`s thinking, she says. Whether it`s good, bad, or indifferent. Even yesterday, when he told her that they were going to have to go a few more hours, it was oh my gosh, I can`t do a few more hours.
Her thought bubble`s out loud, so are her tweets, so is her Facebook page. Anything that she`s thinking is out there. That`s just her. It doesn`t mean that she`s a bad person. It doesn`t mean that she`s manipulative or that she`s angry or bitter or nervous or whatever it is, that`s just her and we have to accept that that is who she is.
EIGLARSH: All right. Well, the key is going to be whether the jurors somehow, number one, accept what she`s saying is fact. And also, whether they know then exactly what took place. But we`re going to analyze her some more in our behavior bureau regarding Rachel Jeantel.
And also, later, is Trayvon Martin`s parents, are -- the family, are they prepared for the possibility of a not guilty verdict if that were to happen? We`ll be back right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Even though she was horrible on cross-exam, it hurt, my teeth hurt. It lines up with Zimmerman`s own 911 call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, Nancy, if this is the state`s star witness, she`s a falling star.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: Welcome back to DR. DREW ON CALL. I`m Mark Eiglarsh sitting in for my buddy, Dr. Drew tonight. And my co-host is Jenny Hutt.
Now, we`re back with the all-woman behavior bureau. Thank you, ladies, for welcoming me into your world. Wendy, I want to ask you. OK? We`re so intrigued by this woman. I mean, the guy who came after her, the witness, was some guy talking about records and phone records. It was like, oy, not interested. But we are so intrigued by her. Why?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., AUTHOR, "30-DAY LOVE DETOX": Well, let`s think about this as you`re asking the all-woman behavior bureau and the all-woman jury is watching.
WALSH: This is a vulnerable young girl. She`s angry, she`s lost her friend, and she`s the closest thing to an eyewitness that we have. And I do want to go back and mention one thing about those nails. While they may look like claws to you, even Oprah tweets pictures of her pedicure. I`ve seen the tweets. It`s just sort of what kids do, with the hair, the nails, everything gets tweeted.
But I also want you to remember that research is showing that our online world reflects our personality type. So, her tweets may only reflect the fact that she`s an extrovert and there`s nothing wrong with that.
EIGLARSH: What about you, Danine? Why do we care so much about her? I mean, is it the color of her skin? Then she`s different from so many of us? Is it that she`s kind of how we would be if maybe we got on the stand all nervous? What is it about her?
MANETTE: She was there. She was there. She gives us an insight that we just can`t get anywhere else. I think she`s colorful. She`s interesting. And, you know, she`s just -- I found her to be a very compelling, intriguing individual and witness. And she was there in the moment. And we weren`t.
EIGLARSH: Samantha, is it what Danine says, kind of like it`s all about how much knowledge she has about a critical issue in this case or is it her?
SCHACHER: I think it`s more so -- yes, she has knowledge, of course. I think, in my opinion, I`ve been intrigued by how raw she is, how real she is. Yes, of course, her demeanor might be off-putting if you don`t try to be empathetic and understand where she`s coming from. She lost her dear friend. And at the end of the day, I thought she`s been absolutely raw and real and that`s what I appreciated from this witness.
EIGLARSH: Yes. What about you, Tiffanie, what`d you want to add?
HENRY: You know, I have to agree with what everyone else is saying. I think that this is an individual who clearly does not want to be up there. This is really, really hard for her and not something that she chose to do and it really is a gift, really, when you think about it.
This is something, this information is something that she`s giving to his family, to the court, to the world, and offering up her own, you know, firsthand account of what happened. And we can`t really -- I really think that it`s a bad idea to vilify someone who`s coming in as reluctant as she is to tell her story.
We have to be sensitive to the fact that this is really, really hard for her. She doesn`t want to be there, clearly. And she is giving us information that she`s being asked.
EIGLARSH: Jenny, one thing that she does know now, because she started watching the news after the Crump press conferences, she knows she`s the star witness. She knows that. Do you think that that impacted her behavior on the stand today?
HUTT: No, actually, I think she just behaves, like Samantha was saying, just who that she is and that happens to be what I really like about her, too. She just -- she was -- and also I think we are intrigued, but she was the last person who got to speak to Trayvon Martin alive. That matters. That`s compelling.
EIGLARSH: But it`s more than that. Jen, don`t you think it`s more than that? Samantha --
EIGLARSH: Samantha, let me ask you this.
HUTT: She doesn`t apologize for who she is. She`s there. She can be defensive. She can be angry and she shouldn`t and I love that about her.
EIGLARSH: Samantha, do you think -- I mean, again, I have been told by women that women can be more judgmental on other women. Do you think that the prosecutions concerned in any way that she might have turned the jury off a little bit? In any way?
SCHACHER: And I think -- yes, absolutely. I do think that, Mark. And here`s the thing. Can these women, and I say this from a White woman, can these women be objective? Can these women who don`t have the same set of circumstances or may not relate to her in a socioeconomic way as a young Black woman, can they relate to her? I don`t know. Can they be empathetic? I don`t know. I hope they can. But I do think that having an all-White jury could pose some problems.
EIGLARSH: All right, first of all --
HUTT: And maybe --
EIGLARSH: We`re going to come back. Hold on. First of all, Samantha, thank you for pointing out that you`re White, we didn`t know that.
SCHACHER: You didn`t know that?
EIGLARSH: Thank you. If you have any questions or comments for this wonderful behavior bureau, you can tweet them @DRDREWHLN #behaviorbureau. There`s so much more to come.
Next, the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family is here with us. She`s going to tell us what she thought the star witness` testimony was like and their feelings about it. Back after this.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: I`m Vinnie Politan. Coming up at the top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," our bold question tonight. Did the prosecution`s key witness, Rachel Jeantel, lie to the jury? Our jury will render a verdict on that by the end of the program, but not before I bring them back to our recreated shooting scene and explain to them some of the evidence.
Does the evidence from the eyewitnesses that were there match up with her testimony? Our jury will make that decision top of the hour, "HLN After Dark."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Describing the person is what made you think it was racial?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s because he described him as a creepy- ass cracker?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, it was racial, but it was because Trayvon Martin put race in this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t think that`s a racial comment?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t think that creepy-ass cracker is a racial comment?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: Welcome back to DR. DREW ON CALL. I`m Mark Eiglarsh, the privilege of sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. My co-host is Jenny Hutt.
Back with us is Attorney Lauren Lake. Joining us, criminal defense attorney, Monica Lindstrom, and we are privilege to have Natalie Jackson, attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family. Natalie, wonderful to see you. We hugged over in the courthouse in Sanford. It`s great to see you. I`m curious how the family reacted to Rachel`s testimony today.
NATALIE JACKSON, ATTORNEY FOR MARTIN FAMILY: They reacted to Rachel`s testimony just like they reacted to all the other witnesses. This is a civic duty that these witnesses are performing. And we are here to get the truth out. So, however it comes out, that is the way it is. If this is -- trials are about the truth.
So, as far as Rachel, they think that she did well. Her story was consistent. She was not really properly impeached. And she did not commit perjury. She admitted to lying during an investigation. She did not lie on the deposition and nor did she lie at trial.
EIGLARSH: But Natalie, let me ask you something. Are we clear now as to what really took place? A 100 percent?
JACKSON: I think we are. I think what Rachel established was the fact that George Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. That`s a huge problem for the defense, because that means that the only person that can contradict that is George Zimmerman. He`s going to have to take the stand.
EIGLARSH: But her versions you concede were not always consistent, right? I mean, I`m not taking sides here, but these are the facts as a trial lawyer looking in.
JACKSON: I agree.
EIGLARSH: But isn`t that a concern at all?
JACKSON: I agree -- well, let me clarify. There was wordings that were not consistent.
JACKSON: So, I mean, I think that when you look at this, that`s important. But the main thing out of this is that she now says, and she told you who started this confrontation. And it was George Zimmerman.
EIGLARSH: OK. Monica, what do you think? I mean, how about the use of the "N" word? Let`s start with that. And apparently, cracker gets thrown a lot, still used a lot. I didn`t realize that. How are these jurors, six women, going to react to that?
MONICA LINDSTROM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, who knows, Mark? They could react one way or another as we know. But what it really comes down to is number one, do they like her? Do they like this witness? Because we`d like to tell the jury, don`t take emotion into account, don`t go off of whether you like her or not.
But Mark, you know as well as I do, these jurors are just normal people. And they have all those thoughts in their head that we have every single day. They can`t basically divorce their emotions from their jobs.
EIGLARSH: Of course.
LINDSTROM: So, without even thinking about it, it`s going to be, do they like her or not? Are they willing to just kind of forget about the language?
EIGLARSH: All right. We`re going to keep talking. There`s a lot more to talk about. We`re going to carry it over. Rachel Jeantel could actually be called back to the stand, if you heard what happened today. She could be back. We`re going to come back and talk more about that after this.
EIGLARSH: Welcome back to DR. DREW ON CALL. I`m Mark Eiglarsh sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight, and my co-host still is the lovely, Jenny Hutt.
Now, Natalie, I`ve got to ask you something. I`ve tried over 100 jury trials and I know that there`s two options other than a hung jury, we`ll throw that out, but there`s either guilty or not guilty. Have you or somebody sat down with the family and prepared them that there are two options and it`s not just guilty?
JACKSON: Oh, yes. And you know, that`s the thing about this whole process is that this has been a quest for equal justice and an equal process. The verdict doesn`t -- it doesn`t tell us whether or not the process has been equal. It is the way that the trial proceeds. And now, we`re here, they`re prepared for whatever verdict.
EIGLARSH: That`s good to hear.
JACKSON: And as long as it`s a just and fair verdict based on the evidence.
EIGLARSH: No, it`s good to hear. I`ve always said expectations are future resentments. I hope that they`re prepared for either outcome. And maybe Lauren, the victory is that he actually made it to court because it wasn`t heading to court. He wasn`t even arrested. Isn`t that kind of a victory?
LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, it took a while for the charges to be filed, Mark, but I just have to say before we get done today that the witness, Rachel Jeantel, I want people to understand that our witnesses do not come in tiffany boxes with the perfect bow nor does she have to be Black barbie sitting on the stand with perfect English for her to be taken seriously and what she`s saying to be validated.
And I want the bullying of her to stop. I want people to get off their soapboxes and understand that this girl told her truth and it`s for the jury to decide whether they believe her.
EIGLARSH: I think Natalie agrees with you, right, Natalie? I think you`re --
JACKSON: I do. And I think it`s --
EIGLARSH: Go ahead.
JACKSON: I think it`s important to tell everyone what this girl has been through for a year and a half.
JACKSON: She`s been harassed on the internet. She`s been (INAUDIBLE) by people. She had -- this is her third -- she`s had two depositions, an interview, and this on the stand. None of it has been pleasant for her. And she did not volunteer for this. She wanted to remain anonymous.
EIGLARSH: All right. But Monica, the state had a goal to achieve over the past two days. Did they achieve the goal?
LINDSTROM: Yes, Mark. And here`s why. The state`s only job is to present the evidence and seek justice. And if justice means telling the truth --
EIGLARSH: Monica --
LINDSTROM: -- and getting the story out there, that`s what they did with her.
EIGLARSH: I have not interrupted -- I have not interrupted intentionally all night. But that is not their job, to seek justice? They want a guilty verdict and they will do whatever it takes to get one. Did they get from this witness what they want?
LINDSTROM: That might be true but --
EIGLARSH: All right. We`ll keep talking about it.
LINDSTROM: Their job is to seek justice, Mark.
EIGLARSH: All right. All right. We`ll go with that.
LINDSTROM: It is.
EIGLARSH: The "Last Call" is next. Back after this.
EIGLARSH: Welcome back to DR. DREW ON CALL. I`m Mark Eiglarsh sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. My co-host is Jenny Hutt and it`s time for "Last Call." Jenny, I feel like this is an exclusive club. I`ve actually never been invited to this. I`m usually in the small little box on the screen. What do you do at this time?
HUTT: First of all, I miss Dr. Drew.
EIGLARSH: Well, thanks, Jen. Let`s talk about I teased Jeantel possibly coming back to testify. That can happen, because the defense has her under subpoena. She could be dragged back from Miami. Do you think it`s going to happen?
HUTT: I hope it doesn`t, Mark. I really hope it does not. I hope they can just let her be now and move forward.
EIGLARSH: All right. Well, Jen, we`ll see you again tomorrow night. And I want to thank you for being a wonderful co-host. And also, thanks to Dr. Drew for letting me sit in your seat tonight. This really was just a wonderful experience. I had a lot of fun. And we`re live tomorrow night. Good night, everyone, and "HLN After Dark" starts right now.