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George Zimmerman Trial

Aired June 28, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: What were the weather conditions like when you arrived?

AYALA: Misty. It had been raining on and off.

DE LA RIONDA: What was Officer Smith doing when you first arrived?

AYALA: He had a white male at gunpoint.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you later learn the white male's name to be George Zimmerman?

AYALA: That's correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you see that person in court this afternoon?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And, judge, if you can raise the lights if you would. Is George Zimmerman the gentlemen to my left who just stood up?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Your honor, the record should reflect that the witness has identified the defendant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The record will so reflect.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you have any interaction with the defendant at that point?

AYALA: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Why not?

AYALA: I was focused on the male that was on the ground.

DE LA RIONDA: And the male that was on the ground, did you later learn the person's name to be Trayvon Martin?

AYALA: That's correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And did you go over to Trayvon Martin's location?

AYALA: I walked towards it, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And how was Trayvon Martin's body positioned when you arrived?

AYALA: Face down, his hands were underneath the body.

DE LA RIONDA: And to your knowledge, were you the first officer to approach Trayvon Martin?

AYALA: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: All right. Did you know whether or not he was dead or alive at that point?

AYALA: I did not.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you know what his involvement was at that point?

AYALA: I did not.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you give him any commands, Trayvon Martin?

AYALA: Yes, I did.

DE LA RIONDA: What command did you give him?

AYALA: I asked to see his hands.

DE LA RIONDA: And where were his hands when you asked to see them?

AYALA: Underneath him.

DE LA RIONDA: He was lying on his stomach?

AYALA: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Did Trayvon Martin respond physically in any way to your commands?

AYALA: No, he did not.

DE LA RIONDA: Did Trayvon Martin respond verbally in any way to your commands?

AYALA: No, he did not.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you see any movement from Trayvon Martin's body?

AYALA: I did not.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you hear any sounds from Trayvon Martin's body?

AYALA: I did not.

DE LA RIONDA: Did other Sanford Police Department officers approach you and Trayvon Martin while you were giving him those commands or shortly thereafter?

AYALA: Sergeant Raimondo. DE LA RIONDA: And did either you or Sergeant Raimondo attempt to get a pulse from Trayvon Martin?

AYALA: Sergeant Raimondo did.

DE LA RIONDA: Was Sergeant Raimondo able to get a pulse?

AYALA: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you and/or Sergeant Raimondo move Trayvon Martin's body after he failed to get a pulse?

AYALA: Yes, I believe it was a joint.

DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry?

AYALA: I believe we moved him, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. How did you move him?

AYALA: We turned him upside up -- right-side up.

DE LA RIONDA: All right. So you moved him from his stomach to his back?

AYALA: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: To your knowledge, did you move or disturb any evidence that was around his body or on his body when you rolled him over?

AYALA: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Did Trayvon Martin respond in any way, either physically or verbally, when you rolled his body over?

AYALA: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: After rolling his body over, did you see anything that appeared to be a gunshot wound?

AYALA: After moving -- at a later -- yes.

DE LA RIONDA: After --

AYALA: After he was moved over -- around, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Yes, sir. And where was that?

AYALA: It was underneath. He had a pin or a button. So it was underneath the button.

DE LA RIONDA: All right, he had a -- are you indicating a button on his shirt or a sweatshirt?

AYALA: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: All right. And the gunshot wound was near that area?

AYALA: It was right underneath the button. So --

DE LA RIONDA: All right. How did you find the gunshot wound?

AYALA: How did we find -- we lift the -- well, when we moved the sweater, the button kind of lift up, so you could see it went through the sweater. So at that time we lifted up his sweater and shirt.

DE LA RIONDA: All right. Actually exposing his bare chest?

AYALA: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And you could see a gunshot wound or something that appeared to be a gunshot wound at that point?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you and Sergeant Raimondo perform CPR on Trayvon Martin?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you have CPR training?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And did either you or Sergeant Raimondo ask anybody for anything while you were performing or attempting to perform CPR?

AYALA: Sergeant Raimondo was asking for a plastic bag of some sort.

DE LA RIONDA: And did anyone provide anything to Sergeant Raimondo or yourself?

AYALA: Someone provided a bag to him, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Can you describe the bag? Was it like a plastic-type grocery bag?

AYALA: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall the color of the bag?

AYALA: I do not.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you recall who provided it?

AYALA: I do not.

DE LA RIONDA: After receiving the bag, did you and Sergeant Raimondo continue to perform CPR?

AYALA: Correct. We did.

DE LA RIONDA: At any time did you see any signs of life from Trayvon Martin's body?

AYALA: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: What was your role specifically in the administration of CPR?

AYALA: I was doing chest compressions.

DE LA RIONDA: And what was Sergeant Raimondo's role?

AYALA: He was doing mouth to mouth.

DE LA RIONDA: Did rescue eventually respond to the scene?

AYALA: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And did rescue personnel take over the treatment or assessment of Trayvon Martin after they arrived?

AYALA: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Was Trayvon Martin pronounced dead at the scene?

AYALA: Yes, he was.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you have any further contact or involvement with this defendant after you performed CPR on Trayvon Martin?

AYALA: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And did investigators and crime scene technicians respond to that scene while you were still present?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And did those officers and technicians take over the scene after they arrived?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you have any further involvement with the case?

AYALA: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Thank you, sir.

Judge, that's all I have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

Mr. O'Mara.

MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: Thank you, your honor.

Good afternoon, officer. How are you?

AYALA: How you doing, sir. Thank you.

O'MARA: Just a couple of questions.

When you - you had heard as you were on your way that Officer Smith had just arrived on the scene, correct? As you were coming --

AYALA: As - as I was getting there?

O'MARA: Right.

AYALA: Yes, he was just arriving on the scene.

O'MARA: Because you guys are in radio contact, aren't you, all the responding officers?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: OK. So you knew that you were right behind Officer Tim Smith to get there?

AYALA: Yes.

O'MARA: OK. Could you even guesstimate from the radio transmissions how fast or quickly after him you got there?

AYALA: I would guesstimate less than two minutes.

O'MARA: OK. As a matter of fact, it was so quick that the officer still had Mr. Zimmerman at gunpoint, right?

AYALA: That's correct.

O'MARA: In a shots fired situation, when you come into a dark area like that, it's protocol to take out your weapon and control the situation, right?

AYALA: Correct.

O'MARA: That's not to suggest any particular danger coming from Mr. Zimmerman, that's just what you do in a situation where you have shots fired?

AYALA: That's correct.

O'MARA: And that's appropriately for Officer Smith to have done that here, correct?

AYALA: Correct.

O'MARA: Now, if you were to come up to me, how would you tell me -- what would you tell me to do in a situation like that where you pull your weapon and try to control the situation that you're just coming upon?

AYALA: I want to see your hands.

O'MARA: Right. And you say that, don't you?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: OK. If I had a cell phone, you think it would be appropriate if I had a cell phone, you say "see my hands," to maybe go like this?

AYALA: No, it would not.

O'MARA: Or even like this?

AYALA: No, it would not.

O'MARA: What would you want me to do with that cell phone?

AYALA: Drop it (INAUDIBLE).

O'MARA: Why?

AYALA: That way we make sure we have no weapons and nothing in your hands.

O'MARA: OK. When you came on with Smith, did you take out -- right behind Smith, did you take out your weapon as well?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Same reason?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You don't know what's going on, do you?

AYALA: No, we do not.

O'MARA: Can't see very much, can you?

AYALA: No, sir.

O'MARA: Flashlights in one hand, your gun in the other?

AYALA: No, the gun actually has a flashlight on it.

O'MARA: Oh, so both, gun with flashlight -

AYALA: Yes.

O'MARA: Watching and seeing what's going on?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You actually said in your report that you were protecting Officer Smith, right? Is that -

AYALA: Correct.

O'MARA: A focus of this initially? AYALA: Correct.

O'MARA: Because he's at least a fellow officer potentially in a dangerous situation?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: OK. Once you realized - or did you come to realize that Officer Smith had that part of the situation, including Mr. Zimmerman, under control? Did that happen?

AYALA: Well, I had my weapon out until -- while I was having my eyes on Mr. Zimmerman and Trayvon at the same time, we didn't know what was going on.

O'MARA: Right.

AYALA: As soon as he secured Zimmerman, I went ahead and focused on Trayvon, make sure it was -- where the threat was coming from.

O'MARA: Was there another person there?

AYALA: When we got there?

O'MARA: Yes.

AYALA: Or when I got there?

O'MARA: Yes.

AYALA: There probably was. I was mostly focused on security for the officer.

O'MARA: Just curious. We had some testimony that a neighbor had come out with a flashlight. It may not have caught your memory.

AYALA: It doesn't, no.

O'MARA: OK. Because you're mainly focused on your fellow officers?

AYALA: Uh-huh.

O'MARA: And the interested parties, in that case, Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: OK. From your awareness of it, did Officer Smith have any concerns with securing Mr. Zimmerman? Was he --

AYALA: No, after he was -- I mean he was -- he got him secured -

O'MARA: OK.

AYALA: And took him to his vehicle and secured him in the vehicle. He was gone - he was good. O'MARA: Was Mr. Zimmerman compliant as far as you were aware?

AYALA: Yes.

O'MARA: Did he do everything that Officer Smith asked him to do?

AYALA: Yes, he did.

O'MARA: Did he disobey in any form that you're aware of?

AYALA: No, he did not.

O'MARA: OK. Did you get a look at his face?

AYALA: No. I - not -- I looked at him. Yes, I'm sorry, his face. Yes, I didn't focus -

O'MARA: Right.

AYALA: At -

O'MARA: Sort of a quick glance?

AYALA: Yes.

O'MARA: Did you notice the blood on his nose?

AYALA: I can't tell you I did, no.

O'MARA: OK. Again, not a focus of yours once he was secured?

AYALA: Yes, exactly.

O'MARA: OK. At that point I think you said a moment ago you shifted over to Trayvon Martin, who was off, at that point, sort of to the left?

AYALA: Yes.

O'MARA: OK. And it was quite dark, right?

AYALA: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You would not have been able to see Trayvon Martin's body but for your flashlight, is that accurate?

AYALA: Yes, it's pretty accurate.

O'MARA: And I think that you testified, you attempted to do what you could, as a first responder, to deal with Trayvon Martin?

AYALA: Correct.

O'MARA: OK. And you did not see -- did you see George Zimmerman again when he was in the back of Tim Smith's patrol car?

AYALA: No.

O'MARA: Never even went over there?

AYALA: I - no, I don't - I didn't make contact with him after he was secured.

O'MARA: OK. Just a moment, your honor. Thank you. I have no further questions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

(INAUDIBLE) redirect?

DE LA RIONDA: Just briefly.

Officer Ayala, when the defendant was complying with Officer Smith's commands, was Officer Smith holding him at gunpoint?

AYALA: When I arrived there, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Thank you.

Judge, that's all I have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. May Officer Ayala -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ayala.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be excused?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much. You may be excused.

Call your next witness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stacey Livingston.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: OK. So you just heard from one of the first responding officers to the night, to that crime scene back on February 26th of 2012. He just finished pretty quickly there. Questioned, sort of setting up the scene, seeing the body of Trayvon Martin, trying to resuscitate, no signs of life and then also answering some questions both from, obviously, from the state and from the defense as far as whether or not George Zimmerman was compliant officers, if he answered questions clearly, completely. And you just heard he said that, yes, he did.

Got to get a quick break in. We are going to continue this coverage, constant coverage, of course, of this major trial underway in Sanford, Florida. George Zimmerman on trial for second-degree murder. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Want to take you back now to Sanford, Florida, to this George Zimmerman murder trial. On the stand right now, first being questioned by the state is a woman by the name of Stacey Livingston. She is a member of the Sanford Fire Department. They're talking right now about when that first call into dispatch was made. Here we go.

STACEY LIVINGSTON, FIREFIGHTER/EMT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you later learn that person's name to be Trayvon Martin?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And were Sanford Police officers present with Trayvon Martin's body when you arrived?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what were those officers doing?

LIVINGSTON: Uh, CPR.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How was Trayvon Martin's body positioned when you got there?

LIVINGSTON: On his back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you and other Sanford Fire/Rescue personnel take over the CPR when you arrived?

LIVINGSTON: We didn't take over CPR, but we took over assessing him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did you - did you check Trayvon Martin for a pulse?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you do that?

LIVINGSTON: On his carotid, on his neck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On his neck?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did you find?

LIVINGSTON: No pulse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While you were treating or evaluating Trayvon Martin, did you move his clothing in any way?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did you move specifically?

LIVINGSTON: I lifted his shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you notice anything in Trayvon Martin's sweatshirt when you moved it?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was that, as best you can recall?

LIVINGSTON: I wasn't sure what it was at the time. I know what it is now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, first of all, where was it?

LIVINGSTON: In the front of his sweatshirt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And what was it?

LIVINGSTON: It felt like a can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. What did you do with it, if anything?

LIVINGSTON: I took it out and just moved it to my right side behind me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Did you take time to examine the can for any reason?

LIVINGSTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

LIVINGSTON: It wasn't my concern. I was just trying to get to the patient.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Did you detect or feel anything else in Trayvon Martin - in Trayvon Martin's sweatshirt when you moved it?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was that?

LIVINGSTON: It just felt like maybe a small bag. When I moved the shirt, it made like a, kind of like a crinkling noise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Did you do anything with that small bag?

LIVINGSTON: I did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was that item also in Trayvon Martin's sweatshirt?

LIVINGSTON: It wasn't exactly where it was, but when I moved the shirt up, I felt it, but it wasn't large enough to be in my way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. When you pulled up Trayvon Martin's sweatshirt, did you see any injuries?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, specifically, did you see what appeared to be a gunshot wound?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where was that?

LIVINGSTON: In his chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what steps did you and the other personnel take to access Trayvon Martin?

LIVINGSTON: We put on a cardiac monitor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what's the purpose of that?

LIVINGSTON: To assess the heart rhythm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was determined from the cardiac monitor?

LIVINGSTON: It was determined by the lead paramedic on the scene that the rhythm - sorry, the rhythm was incompatible to life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was Trayvon Martin then pronounced dead at the scene?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does your report, does the report from the incident indicate the time that Trayvon Martin was pronounced dead?

LIVINGSTON: On the report that I have here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes -- yes, ma'am.

LIVINGSTON: 19:30.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 7:30?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And that was just a few minutes after you arrived, about three minutes after you arrived?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. At any point did you hear Trayvon Martin make any sounds?

LIVINGSTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you or anyone from your agency transport Trayvon Martin's body from the scene?

LIVINGSTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why not?

LIVINGSTON: That wouldn't be part of our job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that something, when a person's deceased, that's left for the medical examiner's office?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other than taking the can out of Trayvon Martin's shirt pocket, did you move or collect any other items on or around him?

LIVINGSTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Let me ask you to look at your screen. Your honor, would you dim the lights. Thank you.

State's exhibit 20. Do you recognize that?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And is that a fair and accurate depiction of the way Trayvon Martin appeared after he was pronounced?

LIVINGSTON: Well, we had his shirt up, but yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And State's 25 from the other side, is that also an accurate depiction of the way he appeared?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And state's 80 --

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And state's 28, what's depicted in that photograph?

LIVINGSTON: The gunshot wound.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that obviously would be when his sweatshirts were pulled up?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

Your honor, that's all I have for the lights.

All right. After Trayvon Martin was pronounced dead, did you treat a man later identified to you as George Zimmerman at that same scene?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see that individual in court this afternoon?

LIVINGSTON: I don't -- yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he the gentleman standing to my left? LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Your honor, I ask that the record reflect the witness has identified the defendant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The record will so reflect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where was the defendant when you made contact with him?

LIVINGSTON: Sitting in a police car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you met with the defendant, did you talk to him?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant appear to have any difficulty understanding what you were saying?

LIVINGSTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any difficulty understanding the defendant when he responded to you?

LIVINGSTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant appear to have any memory problems?

LIVINGSTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We object, your honor, that would be speculation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since it got out before the (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, you're to disregard the question and the answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is a Glasgow Coma Score?

LIVINGSTON: It's a scoring system that we use to determine the level of responsiveness of a patient.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what -- what are the components of it? What makes it up?

LIVINGSTON: It has three sections for eye, verbal, and motor response. And they each have a series of numbers, excuse me, like a score. For example, for eye, it's 4,3,2,1. It would be spontaneous to command, to pain, and none. And each section has a different amount of numbers for a score.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And what's the highest score someone can get, that is the most alert someone can be?

LIVINGSTON: A 15.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was the defendant's Glasgow Coma Score that evening?

LIVINGSTON: Fifteen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what does that highest score indicate to you?

LIVINGSTON: It would indicate that, for eye response, it was spontaneous, for verbal response, he was oriented, and for motor response, he obeyed commands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you observe any injuries to the defendant?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what injuries did you observe?

LIVINGSTON: He had a very swollen, bleeding nose. He had lacerations to the back of his head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the defendant's nose actively bleeding when you arrived?

LIVINGSTON: I don't believe it was actively bleeding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And where --

LIVINGSTON: It was still moist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did you do to treat his nose?

LIVINGSTON: We just tried to clean up his injuries so we could see them better to determine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And describe the lacerations that you saw in the back of the defendant's head.

LIVINGSTON: I recall two lacerations approximately an inch long.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Were either of those lacerations bleeding?

LIVINGSTON: Not actively bleeding, but they had been.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did you treat the lacerations to the defendant's head?

LIVINGSTON: The same. We just tried to clean up a little so we could view better what the injury was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At any point while you were treating the defendant, did he stand up?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant have any trouble with his balance when he stood up?

LIVINGSTON: I don't believe so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And about how long were you treating the defendant?

LIVINGSTON: Maybe five minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you treat --

BALDWIN: All right. A quick break here. You've been listening to a member of the Sanford Fire Department. This is Stacey Livingston. She's describing coming on to the scene. Officers already there. Describes the unresponsiveness and ultimately she and her team pronounced Trayvon Martin dead on the scene there last February. Also now describing the bloody nose and the cuts to the back of George Zimmerman's head. A quick break. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK, let me take you back it the trial and just to set this up before we dip back in again. Stacey Livingston, the member of Sanford Fire Department, on the stand. Now as you're looking at these bloody pictures of George Zimmerman that night, February of last year, right after this whole altercation and ultimately death of Trayvon Martin happened. She's being questioned about some of his injuries she witnessed herself by Mark O'Mara, the defense attorney. Take a listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does a person get a laceration like that?

LIVINGSTON: I don't know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. In your experience, is that consistent with getting struck in the nose by a fist?

LIVINGSTON: It could.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Similar to the injuries to the nose itself and the swelling, they're also consistent with a fist strike to the nose?

LIVINGSTON: Very possibly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you see the -- the injuries to what would be closest to you, his left forehead, do you see those markings up there?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is that?

LIVINGSTON: Looks like an abrasion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Can you tell how that may have been -- how he was injured with that?

LIVINGSTON: I cannot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Would you agree that that would be a separate injury from the injury to his nose?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now let's talk about what seems to be on the tip of his nose. What is that?

LIVINGSTON: Blood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And is that what you talked about earlier, that it was still moist, in the process of drying?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where was that - where was that coming from?

LIVINGSTON: His nose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inside?

LIVINGSTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that indicate to you?

LIVINGSTON: An injury to the nose.