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Flight 214 Pilot in Spotlight; Alaska Air Taxis Crash Kills 10; Deadly Protests in Cairo; George Zimmerman Trial Continues Today

Aired July 8, 2013 - 07:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could see the front end pop up and then slam down and then big explosion.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Pilot in training. We have exclusive the video of the moment Asiana flight 214 crashed and new details this morning. The pilot at the controls had never landed that plane at that airport before. We break it all down.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The victims. New details on the two girls who lost their lives, but did one of them survive the crash only to be run over by an emergency vehicle on the ground?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Egypt erupts. Violence explodes overnight, dozens killed, hundreds injured. Supporters of the deposed president not giving up. We're live in Cairo with the latest.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: What you need to know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not have any memory of the day of autopsy.

ANNOUNCER: What you just have to see.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're very soft.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan, and Michaela Pereira.


BOLDUAN: Good morning again. And welcome back to NEW DAY, everyone. It is Monday, July 8th, 7:00 in the East. I'm Kate Bolduan.

CUOMO: And I'm Chris Cuomo joined as always by our news anchor and friend, Michaela Pereira. It's great to be with you. And we're working about news around the world this morning.

Deadly violence in Egypt, a plane crash in Alaska, a tropical storm brewing, possibly heading for The U.S. We're following it all with live team coverage, the CNN way, from Cairo to Canada.

But first, brand new details this morning on that deadly Asiana air crash at San Francisco International Airport. We're learning it was the pilot's first time landing a Boeing 777 in San Francisco. He only had 43 hours landing that kind of plane.

BOLDUAN: Yes. We're also learning more about the two teenage girls, you see pictures of them there, who tragically lost their lives in the crash. They were heading to a church camp in Los Angeles from China, and one, they say, may have died on the ground after a crash in a horrible accident, something they're looking very closely at.

CUOMO: An important part of the investigation.

And then look at this. This is the CNN exclusive of the morning. This is the video that shows the moment of impact, amateur video, obviously, but you will see the plane's approach, hitting the sea wall, and what happens afterwards.

We're going to talk to the chairman of the NTSB about the crash investigation and what the evidence is showing so far.

BOLDUAN: A lot to talk about. We're covering the story like no other network can, from California right here to New York.

First, let's get to California. CNN's Miguel Marquez at San Francisco International Airport.

Miguel, what is the latest with the investigation this morning?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, investigators are looking into exactly what was going on in the cockpit when the flight was coming in. This pilot had only piloted a 777 nine times before. But in particular, they want to know why that plane was coming in so slowly.



MARQUEZ (voice-over): This morning, a stunning revelation, Asiana Airlines saying at the controls of the doomed flight was the co-pilot with 43 hours of experience in the 777. And he had never landed a 777 at San Francisco before.

Though he was a veteran pilot with 10,000 hours of flying time --

HAYES: Oh, Lord, have mercy.

MARQUEZ: -- this was considered a training flight.

Flight 214 clipping the seawall, sliding down the runway, and pin- wheeling at one point almost fully vertical, then erupting into a cloud of dust and smoke.

HAYES: I was watching it come in and my initial reaction was that it was trying to abort the landing.

MARQUEZ: Officials say the pilot tried to increase speed seven seconds before impact. At four seconds, the 350-ton plane shake stick jolted violently, a warning the massive jet was going too slowly, stalling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I looked out through the window and I knew we were too low.

MARQUEZ: Just 1.5 seconds before slamming into the seawall, the pilot called to abort the landing.

DEBORAH HERSMAN, NTSB CHAIRWOMAN: There is no discussion of aircraft anomalies or concerns.

MARQUEZ: These new NTSB photos show seats crushed and jumbled together. Amazing so many survived.

WEN ZHANG, CRASH SURVIVOR: Everybody screamed. Dark and most of ash -- everywhere was ash.

MARQUEZ: Some passengers thrown from the plane, suffering road rash from skidding along the runway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got there within three minutes. There were flames were coming off the planes.

MARQUEZ: The parents of two teenage girls killed in a crash grief stricken, their daughters headed for summer camp here in California. More than a dozen are still hospitalized, two of them paralyzed. Still, such a violent crash and so few injuries and deaths?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is nothing short of a miracle that we had literally 123 people walk away from this.

MARQUEZ: A miracle prompting many questions.

HAYES: Oh my God. Oh my God.


MARQUEZ: And perhaps adding to the tragedy here is now news from the San Mateo coroner's office here that one of those young women who died may have been hit by an emergency vehicle on the tarmac or on that part of the runway they were on as they were trying to get to the plane. The mayor here addressing this, saying it was a very chaotic scene there, and emergency responders were trying to get to the plane as quickly as possible.

It is not clear even if she was hit by a vehicle, whether or not that killed her or the crash itself -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Miguel, thank you very much.

We have Mary Schiavo with us again. You remember, she's inspector general of the Department of Transportation, aviation lawyer, an expert in this type of stuff.

On the tape, we hear, oh, my God, oh, my God. May be the best explanation for how people survived this kind of crash, but for investigators like you in the NTSB, the question is why did it happen? How could it have been avoided?

So, we take a look here, Mary. The first thing we're going to see is the approach. OK, we're going to stop it on the approach because I want you to talk to me about what we call the attitude of the aircraft.

When you look, what do you think here?

MARY SCHIAVO, AVIATION LAWYER: Well, right here, you see that's something is going wrong, because you canes see the plane is pointed up this way. At this point, you would expect to see more of this. We learned from the cockpit voice recording and the data flight recording that something called the stick shaker would be going off in just another second, which means you've got to get some air speed. You're in danger of losing the plane.

You can see it right here that from the attitude of the plane, it's pointing up, and that's going to slow your air speed even more. They're low and slow, and that's a problem.

CUOMO: Less than 137 knots. We know they're going too slow. They should have known it also.

SCHIAVO: Right, 137 knots is very slow. There are small planes that have a landing speed of 137 knots.

CUOMO: And now, any understanding of how they would have been going that slowly? Autopilot would have told them. So we assume they were doing it manually. Why would they be going that slowly?

SCHIAVO: Well, because they had lost situational awareness at that point. You're supposed to constantly sweep your instruments. That's told at the very beginning of flight school, to stay on top of your air speed, your altitude, your attitude, where your plane is.\

And to let your air speed deteriorate, it does remind us of other incidents recently, like the Colgan crash in Buffalo. It lost situational awareness --

CUOMO: Three captains and a pilot lose awareness?


CUOMO: A lot.

All right. Let's look down. All right. So, now, this is a seawall here. We see it hit the sea wall. Obviously, it was too low. We stop it again.

What has happened? SCHIAVO: Well, this is very telling, because you can see this plane right here. This plane is in line waiting to taxi onto the runway to take off. And you see at this point the plane was already hit here and hit here, way before the threshold, way before the landing point on the runway.

So you can see at this point there is just no recovering this flight. When we listen to the CVR, the cockpit voice recorder and the data recorder, we know they did try to put in power or they did call for a go round at this point, but it's too late. That could not have been done, and we can see here they were still kind of nose up, but they already hit it and lost the tail.

CUOMO: A second before they make impact, they say we want a go around, we want a fly around. You had told me earlier, too late for that.

SCHIAVO: Too late, you know, fancy, wonderful jet engines. These are great planes. I believe these were Pratt Whitney engines. It takes a while for them to get up to speed. It's not instantaneous. You don't just throttle up and get more power.

CUOMO: That was just panic we're talking about?

SCHIAVO: I'm afraid it's realizing they really were in trouble.

CUOMO: We know what happened here. This is the cartwheeling of it. Take us what the debris field I want to take a look at.

All right. This is -- this is the plane. We see what's happened here. The tail has come off. We have photos of it that really let you get a sense of what's going on with the debris field.

All right. So, it hit the sea wall.


CUOMO: And we start to see how it's moving along through here. You look at these markers that we're about to see. Here's the tail. Obviously, the plane is coming across.

You see these marks as very important. Why?

SCHIAVO: Well, these marks are very important because you can see the markers on the set before them. That's the point where you're supposed to set the plane down. They had set it down, it hit the sea wall a couple hundred feet before that.

And we can see already here they lost control of the flight. This is the path of the flight right here off the runway. They shouldn't have even been touching down here. This is telling because this is where other planes have touched down.

CUOMO: It was over before it again had begun.

SCHIAVO: Exactly. And you can see from the other marks on the planes, this is where planes literally hit their wheels when they land, and here, it was already as you can see.

CUOMO: Lots of investigating left to be done. Questions of bad judgment, whether or not there was any type of equipment involvement in this, of reading their instruments. But at the end of the day, when you watch that video, when you see what happen to that plane and watch it lift up, the tail is gone, can you believe so many walked away?

SCHIAVO: Well, it's wonderful that so many walked away. But when you see the landing sequence, the plane pitches up, and it ends up on the belly of the plane, that right there, that event allowed so many people to get off because the plane stayed on its belly. They could use the chutes. They could use the doors.

The smoke that we saw wasn't smoke. It was dirt. That was fortunate too. The fire did not happen until later in the sequence. And that spelled the difference of so many lives.

CUOMO: Shout out to the crew who was able to get -- all the flight attendants able to get people off before the fire started.

SCHIAVO: Absolutely. I've had the opportunity to work with many flight attendants who have saved lives in crashes. And the instant they realize something is going wrong, they start thinking what do I have to do to get these people out? Because there's one for every 50 passengers. That's the law. That's still a lot of people to get off the plane, but they have a lot to do, and there's also reports of one poor flight attendant was trapped, and the --

CUOMO: Trapped and passengers got her out, and then she started helping.

SCHIAVO: But they have to spring into action immediately, and they save lives.

CUOMO: Mary Schiavo, thank you very much.


BOLDUAN: All right. Chris, thanks.

Also new this morning, we have brand new video from the NTSB from inside the wreckage. It shows the destroyed seats. You see it there, where people had to crawl out. You also see the debris field and even the landing gear.

We're also this morning hearing from some of the passengers who lived through this terrifying or deal. You can only imagine if you were in this experience, what you would feel like this morning.

Here's CNN's Kyung Lah with some of their stories.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED) KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The crash stunned people watching in horror. Aboard the plane, passenger Eugene Rah had only one thought.

EUGENE RAH, SURVIVOR: I thought that was it. I thought I'm dying.

LAH: Rah had landed in San Francisco hundreds of times. This was his 173rd flight on Asiana Air.

RAH: The entire aircraft was so quiet just for a few seconds. I smell something burning and see the smoke and dust.

LAH: His daughter Eunice was waiting to pick up her father, frantically texting him. He didn't reply.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I could see the smoke. I could see the plane.

LAH (on camera): And you knew your dad was on that plane?


LAH (voice-over): Then relief. Her father texted these pictures, his plane burning. Fellow passengers terrified and running, then lying injured on the tarmac. And this 100-pound flight attendant, Rah says carried the injured to safety on her back.

Wen Zhang was seated in row 40. She dragged her 4-year-old with a broken leg out of the side plane.

WEN ZHANG, SURVIVOR: To the right of the plane chair, it's a bathroom. Yes, most of the bathroom is gone.

LAH: Ben Levy was also near the back of the plane.

BEN LEVY, SURVIVOR (via telephone): Somebody helped me to open the door. There was no slide. At that point, I'm ushering people out. I'm screaming to everybody, we're OK. We're fine. Help each other out. Get out.

LAH: These survivors largely have superficial wounds. Eugene Rah has cuts to his chin and pain in his jaw, but as we talk at his home near San Francisco's airport, Rah has a more serious injury you can't see.

(on camera): What is it like to hear the plane fly overhead now?

RAH: I feel like puke, honestly. I feel like throw-up when I hear that.

LAH (voice-over): A wound that may never heal.

Kyung Lah, CNN, San Francisco.


CUOMO: And as if this crash wasn't enough, news of another plane crash, this one in Alaska. Federal investigators are heading to the scene after the plane went down in a fireball, killing all 10 souls aboard. By the time firefighters and paramedics could arrive, the air taxi was already completely engulfed in flames.

Rene Marsh is tracking the latest developments live from Washington.

Rene, what do we know?

Well, Chris, no doubt, the Go Teams at NTSB keeping very busy. Another team en route to this crash site here in Alaska. Investigators say they don't know yet what caused the plane to catch fire and crash.

But we do know this was an air taxi. When it comes to FAA regulations, it's just understand commercial planes. Commercial airliners are top tier. They're heavily regulated. And charter planes are second tier when it comes to regulation.

Now, ten people were on board. All ten died. The Go Team about do just as they're doing in San Francisco, documenting the scene, and once they get on the ground, the NTSB tells us they'll likely have a preliminary briefing -- Chris.

CUOMO: Rene, thank you very much. We're going to need the information there as well.

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely right.

BOLDUAN: There's also violence to report overseas.

Flaring up overnight in Cairo, violent, deadly clashes leaving at least 42 people dead and more than 300 injured. Witnesses say the Egyptian military opened fire on supporters of ousted President Mohamed Morsy. The latest attacks come just hours after Egypt's interim president nominated a vice president and a prime minister to be serving.

CNN's Reza Sayah is following these developments from Cairo.

Reza, it seems there are two different versions from folks of how they believe this violence -- this deadly violence started.

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and that's why it's tough to figure out exactly what happened, but an awful morning today here in Egypt that shows this country could be going downhill.

At least 42 killed, more than 300 injured in clashes between supporters of the ousted President Mohamed Morsy and security forces. The clashes taking place before dawn in front of the presidential guard headquarters. This is where the ousted president is reportedly being held in custody.

Again, all sorts of conflicting reports. Who fired first? Security forces saying it was an armed group of terrorists. They released video reportedly showing protesters firing onto the security forces. Protesters saying, no, we were not armed. It was security forces who fired first. They released their own video showing soldiers firing onto the crowds. We're working hard to verify exactly what happened.

In the meantime, the aftermath -- bloody, chaotic, hundreds of victims rushed to a nearby makeshift hospital. Many of the fatalities placed on the ground with covered with blankets.

The fallout is already here. One of the ultra-conservative Islamist groups who was part of this critical coalition, charged with establishing this transitional government, they've already pulled out, condemning this incident. Chris, Kate?

BOLDUAN: All right, Reza. The big question is what are they going to do now to quiet this down, at least for a little while? Reza Sayah in Cairo. Thank you so much, Reza.

CUOMO: Boy, no sleepy Monday today. Even more news. In the Atlantic ocean, a new tropical storm is forming, so let's get to Chad Myers in the weather center with the latest. What do we know about our friend Chantal?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Chantal, the C storm, which means it's the third storm of the year. July 9th, Chris that should be the first storm of the year. We're already way ahead. We knew the hurricane center said it was going to be a busy season. It's already going right now.

Moving west at 26 miles per hour, a 40 mile per hour, something (INAUDIBLE) just a minimal tropical form. It will head for the islands if you're going on a cruise ship or vacation, you may want to watch this thing because here it comes. It could be south of Port Au Prince, that would be Haiti and the DR, but if it stays south, then that would be a problem. It would stay in the Caribbean longer, and it would possibly even miss Cuba, and get up into the Gulf of Mexico.

The problem with storms, once they get into the Gulf of Mexico, they're going to hit something. They're probably going to hit the U.S. too, unless it's just the Yucatan. If it turns to the right and goes up, that's a big gutter ball.

Here's the tropical guidance, all the computer models not agreeing just yet. But as it gets closer and the storm gets into the Caribbean, they'll agree a little bit more. There's Chantal, talk about a busy season, already a couple of clusters coming off Africa as we get into this busy season. We could have 20 named storms. Hurricane center says it's going to be a very busy hurricane season.

BOLDUAN: We're seeing that already, it looks like.

MYERS: You bet.

BOLDUAN: Chad, thank you so much. There's a lot of news developing at this early hour. Let's get straight to Michaela for some of the headlines.

PERIERA: All right, good morning. And good morning to you at home. An engine shutdown may have caused the train derailment that led to a massive explosion in Quebec. Saturday's blast in the Canadian town of Lac-Megantic left at least 5 people dead. Around 40 more are missing, and police fear there may be many more deaths. The Montreal Main and Atlantic railway says an engine shutdown could have released the brakes that held the train in place.

Teresa Heinz-Kerry is said to be in critical but stable condition at Boston hospital this morning. We've learned her symptoms are consistent with some kind of seizure, accord to go a source close to the family. The 74-year-old wife of Secretary of State John Kerry was rushed to a hospital in Nantucket Sunday before being airlifted to Massachusetts General Hospital. Secretary Kerry's spokesman says the family is asking for privacy at this time.

Cuban president Raul Castro is now publicly supporting three Latin American countries that appear willing to grant asylum to NSA leaker Edward Snowden, but Castro is not saying whether Cuba will take him. Snowden is believed to be holed up in the transit area of Moscow airport. Venezuela, Bolivia, and Nicaragua have all indicated they would grant him asylum if asked.

Meanwhile, a Washington based privacy rights group is planning to file an emergency petition with the U.S. Supreme Court asking it to shut down the NSA's domestic surveillance program.

The sequester's next target, civilian Pentagon workers. 60,000 defense workers on furlough, forced to take one unpaid day off each week, which is a 20 percent pay cut through late September. The furlough is expected to save the agency nearly $2 billion, a small part of the $40 billion defense has to cut.

A surfer lives to tell the tale of his close encounter with a whale. An Aussie man surfing on Bondi beach says He saw the whale approach, but what he did not see was the whale's tail flipping.


BISHAN RAJAPAKSE, SURFER: I was probably the closest person to it, and the whale came to the right of me, and then that's all I remember.


PERIERA: He was knocked out cold for about ten seconds. Other surfers helped him back onto the beach. He suffered a shoulder injury and concussion and will have quite a story to tell.

BOLUDAN: No kidding.

CUOMO: Bad news, he got hurt. Good news, whale wasn't trying to eat him, which is what usually happens when surfers come against animals in the water.

PERIERA: I think they prefer plankton.

(CROSSTALK) CUOMO: But usually something tries to eat you when you're surfing. I can't get anything on you. You come at me. Just like the chimp with the two tiger cubs.


CUOMO: Coming up on NEW DAY, George Zimmerman's defense team back in action in less than two hours from right now. They are trying to make a case of self-defense. How will they prove to the jury their client is not a murder?

BOLDUAN: And one month after those very disturbing photos surfaced, the husband of celebrity chef Nigella Lawson says the couple's marriage is now over.


BOLDUAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY, everyone. More gripping testimony expected today in The George Zimmerman trial. After nine days, the prosecution rested its case Friday amid very emotional and contradictory testimony coming from the mothers of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman. CNN's George Howell is live in Sanford, Florida, with more. What should we be expecting today, George?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, good morning. We're talking about a jury of six women, five of them mothers. It really comes down to this question. Which person do they believe the most? And there's also the issue of the medical examiner, who we heard from Friday, who told the court without his notes, he doesn't remember anything.


HOWELL: A rare moment of emotion from George Zimmerman in the courtroom as this week's testimony could see more family on the stand to testify on his behalf. Friday, Zimmerman was visibly affected, listening to his uncle explain, when he heard those highly scrutinized screams for help on a 911 audiotape.

JORGE MESA, ZIMMERMAN'S UNCLE: I said, that is George. And I stood up and looked at the TV.

HOWELL: Also, Zimmerman's mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know whose voice that was screaming in the background?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And whose voice was that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And are you certain of that?

GLADYS ZIMMERMAN: Because he's my son. HOWELL: It was a day of dueling testimonies between mothers. Gladys Zimmerman testified after Sybriana Fulton told the court what she heard before the fatal shot that killed her son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am, that screaming or yelling, do you recognize that?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who do you recognize that to be, ma'am?

FULTON: Trayvon Benjamin Martin.

HOWELL: Martin's older brother, Jahvaris Fulton also testified the screams were from his brother, but in cross examination, Fulton was put on the spot for once telling a reporter he wasn't positive who was screaming only to later conclude it was Trayvon Martin.

For most of day nine, jurors listened to the medical examiner who did the autopsy on Martin.

DR. SHIPING BAO, MEDICAL EXAMINER: I believe he was alive for one to ten minutes after he was shot.

HOWELL: But when challenged by the defense, Dr. Shiping Bao admitted he only recently reached that opinion. Just three weeks earlier he said he though martin was alive only one to three minutes after the shooting. Defense attorneys also point out how Bao's team may have mishandled and even damaged some evidence. When asked to recall specifics about the autopsy, there was this.

BAO: I do not have any recall. I do not have any memory of the day of autopsy.

HOWELL: Attorney Mark O'Mara asked the judge to acquit his client after the state rested its case, arguing prosecutors have not proven second degree murder. Judge Debra Nelson denied that motion.

JUDGE DEBRA NELSON, FLORIDA: The motion for judgment of acquittal is denied.

HOWELL: Putting the defense on deck as this trial moves into week three.


HOWELL: And as we launch into week three, we could hear from more family and friends as the defense lays out its case over the next three or four days. Could also see that lead investigator for the Sanford police department, Chris Serino recalled to the stand and hear from a forensic pathologist who is considered an expert in the field.

CUOMO: George, thank you very much. Beautifully laid out in your piece. Appreciate it.

As George says, the defense did decide to put up a case here. They don't have to. Remember the burden is on the prosecution, unless you want to make your own case, which they are. The defense is making a case is the answer to that question, and it's for self-defense.

Let's run through the factors quickly and get to our pros. All in the family. The prosecutors put up Trayvon's mother and his brother, very compelling testimony, emotional. They say it's him on that tape. The defense's first move, put on his family, George Zimmerman's, and say, no, it's our, George's voice on there. Who was more persuasive to the jury? Big question.

A pressing situation. Why? The medical examiner's testimony basically comes down to where the gun was. If the gun was farther away, it goes with Zimmerman's story that I wasn't trying to shoot him. He was trying to grab my gun, and I was doing something sudden. If it's pushed up against it, shows more intentionality by Zimmerman. Important. The medical examiner being a little bit all over the place, he not remembering that clothes shouldn't be put in a bag, all of that will go to his credibility with the jury.

he wild card. Okay, everybody believes George Zimmerman won't testify, if you've been listening to the experts. But remember, a man who said ugly things about people like Trayvon Martin, had a weapon that had a bullet in the chamber, ignored 911 calls, and a kid winds up dead, the judge has said you have to take it to the jury. Maybe George Zimmerman will be his best witness. We don't know. We'll have to see.

Who's an advantage, the ups and downs of the day? Let's let the pros decide. Vinnie Politan, host of HLN, legal expert, Danny Cevallos -- I don't know where Vinnie Politan is. We got an upgrade right there. Look at Sunny Hostin, obviously, former federal prosecutor, great legal analyst. Thanks for being with us, Sunny, Danny Cevallos. We know now, great criminal defense attorney.

All right. After the families testified, Sunny, your take for that jury, you're looking at them, who was more impressive for them about the voice on the tape?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it was interesting. I think that certainly they were with Sybrina Fulton when she was on the witness stand. They were also with George Zimmerman's mother Gladys Zimmerman when she was on the witness stand. They were engaged, they were looking. I will tell you, in my view, the person that they looked at the most, the person that they seemed to strain to hear was Jahvaris Fulton. All eyes were on Jahvaris. Remember that is Trayvon Martin's brother, and I've got to tell you, he was so eloquent, he was so elegant. The thought or the suggestion that this mother raised a thug in Trayvon Martin, I think, was dispelled. I think Trayvon Martin was put squarely in the courtroom on the witness stand as a reflection of his brother. So in my view, Jahvaris Fulton was sort of the star witness for the prosecution and the one person on the Martin family that this jury was really engaged with.

CUOMO: And a little bit of a surprise for the defense Danny, because it seemed they changed tact and went after his credibility more than they have expected to early on. But the questionable tactic and the question I put to you is the cross-examination of the mother. It has been criticized -- and I'm not one who gets into stylistic criticisms. For us here, it's about the goals of laying out the issues, but strategically, do you think it affected the case, or do you think the defense counsel is doing what he had to?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. O'Mara is doing -- he runs a far greater risk if you leave a witness on the stand and ask them zero questions. Of course he's going to be criticized, but he did the right thing. He had to take a calculated risk. That's what cross-examination is. You're not there to make friends. You're always are running the risk of turning off a jury because the very nature of cross-examination is adversarial. You take that risk every single time you cross-examine a witness. He had to take that risk here.

CUOMO: Understood. Sunny, you're shaking your head. Let me give you something that now you have to deal with on the prosecution side of this in your analysis. Your medical examiner, didn't you talk to this guy before? He comes up and is saying he doesn't remember the day. You should never put clothes in a bag. Doesn't this guy work for the state? He's supposed to be their witness. How much do you think he hurt the prosecutor's case?

HOSTIN: I don't think he hurt the prosecution's case that much, but wow. He was such a loose cannon. He was such a wild card.