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Cleveland Kidnapping Victims Release YouTube Video; Family Survives San Francisco Plane Crash; Zimmerman Trial Continues Today

Aired July 9, 2013 - 07:00   ET



AMANDA BERRY, FORMER KIDNAP VICTIM: I may have been through hell and back, but, I am strong enough to walk through hell with a smile on my face.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, strength and pain. The Cleveland three speak out for the first time, kidnapped as girls, then rescued years later, how they're dealing now?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Escape from flight 214, the dramatic new video of passengers evacuating and a NEW DAY exclusive, some of the flight's youngest survivors on the terrifying ordeal and fearing their family was lost.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Caught on tape, this Michigan mom trying to hire a hit man to kill her husband, giggling as she talks about how she wants it done. How did she get busted.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY starts right now.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you need to know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would venture to say that nobody that was on the scene that day had participated in an event like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you just have to see.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's easier than divorcing him. I didn't have to worry about the judgment of my family. I didn't have to worry about breaking his heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, July 9, 7:00 in the east. I'm Chris Cuomo.

BOLDUAN: And I'm Kate Bolduan. We're joining by news anchor Michaela Pereira. Coming up this hour, the judge allows evidence about Trayvon Martin's drug use in the George Zimmerman trial. How damaging is this for the prosecution? We'll look at it all with our legal experts. Vinnie Politan and Danny Cevallos are going to weigh in live. CUOMO: And no matter how busy your morning is, take a second and just look at this. A car slams into the gas station, right, fire everywhere. Someone's lit on fire. This is a survival story. How did that man you just saw save his own life? We'll tell you.

PEREIRA: And also you may be hearing the cries of joy from hopeful single ladies. Apparently George Clooney is back on the market and single again. Details about his high profile breakup are coming up.

CUOMO: Those are my cries you're hearing.

First up this morning, we're hearing from the three Cleveland women who were held captive and allegedly tortured for about a decade. Overnight Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, and Michelle Knight released a video showing amazing resilience and gratitude in the face of unimaginable horror. Pamela Brown is here. what a surprise, great to see them.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What a surprise. I've been covering this story over the beginning in the past two months and it's incredible to hear these women speak out after learning some of the horrible details from police. In fact, other than a picture of Amanda Berry after her escape, this is really the first time we're seeing and hearing from the women since they went missing more than 10 years ago. Instead of being bitter about losing so many years of their lives, as you may expect, they focused on their new lives and thanked the people who have helped them.


BROWN: In a four-minute YouTube video, Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, and Michele Knight are speaking publicly for the first time to say thanks.

AMANDA BERRY, KIDNAPPING VICTIM: I want to thank everyone who has helped me and my family through entire ordeal. Everyone who has been there to support us it's been a blessing to have an outpouring of love and kindness.

GINA DEJESUS, KIDNAPPING VICTIM: I would say thank you for the support.

MICHELE KNIGHT, KIDNAPPING VICTIM: Thank you, everyone, for your love support and donations, which helped me build a brand new life.

BROWN: More than $1 million has been donated to the Courage Fund to help the women heal after a decade of alleged abuse in captivity by Ariel Castro. Castro is charged with beating, raping, and starving them, even forcing the miscarriage of a baby he fathered. Yet in the video made last week the women seemed upbeat, not bitter.

BERRY: I'm getting stronger each day and I'm having my privacy has helped immensely. I ask that everyone continue to respect our privacy and give us time to have a normal life.

KNIGHT: Be positive. Learn that it's important to give than to receive. Thank you for all your prayers.

BROWN: Michele Knight, held the longest, appeared to suffer the worst abuse. Here she hints at the pain of the ordeal and what she learned from it.

KNIGHT: I will not let the situation define who I am. I will define the situation. I don't want to be consumed by hatred. With that being said, we need to take a leap of faith and know that god is in control.

BROWN: They were once known only as silent victims. Now Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, and Michele Knight want the world to know they have a voice and have reclaimed their lives.


BROWN: And as Michele knight put it at the end of the video, she said "I'm looking forward to my brand new life." So far 9,200 donations have raised more than $1 million for the women. At this time the women don't plan on making any additional public statements and continue to ask the public to respect their privacy so they can heal.

BOLDUAN: Pamela, thank you so much. Let's talk more about this. Will these women ever fully recover from this nightmare they went through, and what is their healing process like? Wendy Walsh is a doctor of psychology and she's joining us from Los Angeles this morning. Wendy, thank you so much. I guess I wanted to just ask you kind of what you thought about the video. It's clearly an edited video, YouTube video, but what do you think of their body language and what they said and how they said it?

WENDY WALSH, DOCTOR OF PSYCHOLOGY: Well, I think they certainly have some good advisers because they have taken control of the situation. They are defining it themselves, not having media chase them and have to face a lot of cameras and questions. They're controlling their environment.

But it's very interesting to note that they would appear what we call their affect, their mannerisms, their tone of voice, the way they're talking seems almost juvenile for fully developed women who are now in their mid-20s because I think that emotionally they were probably stuck around the time they were kidnapped. It's like they were being raised by each other and the only other adult they were exposed to was an infantile adult criminal. So it's fascinating to watch that.

BOLDUAN: And what also do you think of this approach? It shows they're obviously taking control of their situation, putting out this YouTube video but is this part of the healing process or do you think this is more of them just wanting to say thank you and to tell people we still need our distance?

WALSH: Well, I think it was definitely that. I love the fact that they were taking control of it, that they weren't letting the media control them. They also knew they had to do it at some point, because by at least putting out this video that we have, it will hold the media at bay, if you will. It will continue to be able to ensure their privacy, and that's why they came out from the gate saying thank you for our privacy. This is why we're able to heal. I think they're getting some very good advice and making good choices.

And remember also, of course they're going to use the Internet. This is what this generation does, keeping them contemporary. They were only exposed to us, meaning the rest of their culture through television during their captivity.

BOLDUAN: That's an excellent point. It was interesting to hear what each one of the women focused on differently. We heard most from Michele Knight, she spoke the longest on the clip, and you hear her kind of almost talking through her recovery. She said at one point "I will not let the situation define who I am. I will define the situation." What do you take from that and what she said, because you could tell she's clearly trying to say "I'm trying to be strong, I am strong"?

WALSH: I think that certainly is a very good part of the healing to take control of it in that way. She was also the only one who seemed to talk about her faith at length. I think you can see that she seemed to be impaired somewhat. There have been reports that she has a mental disability in the past. I don't know what her diagnosis is, but clearly this is a young woman who has found strength in whatever way. And of course having faith is a great coping mechanism that's out there. But she's also the only one that alluded to the torture when she said I've been to hell and back but I'm strong enough to walk to hell and back, which was fascinating.

BOLDUAN: Wendy Walsh, thank you so much. That video is fascinating I think is an understatement to see them during the recovery. Thank you so much.

CUOMO: This morning we also have brand new video of the moments immediately after Asiana flight 214 crashed in San Francisco. You can see emergency chutes opening up, passengers running from the burning plane, and first responders arriving to help. Investigators are combing through the wreckage today trying to determine if pilot error or maybe mechanical failure could have caused the jumbo jet to crash just moments before landing. Miguel Marquez is kicking off team coverage this morning in San Francisco. Good morning, Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. We know the NTSB, the national transportation safety board is speaking to the four pilots on that plane, they want to know how the pilots didn't understand the plane was in trouble at the same time we're seeing the video that shows us that emergency escape played out.


MARQUEZ: Moments after impact emergency chutes deployed from the plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My god that's scary.

MARQUEZ: You see one person zipping down and a stream of people running for their lives. One slide reportedly popped open inside the plane, trapping people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have heard there were some problems inside the aircraft. We need to understand why that happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're running.


MARQUEZ: Eventually dozens of emergency vehicles surrounded the plane, the possibility a plane crash victim was struck by an emergency worker vehicle now part of the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are reviewing airport surveillance video.

MARQUEZ: United 885 waiting to take off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We see people, and I think they need assistance and they are alive and walking around.

MARQUEZ: Had a terrifying front row seat as the Asiana came crashing in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like it's struggling.

MARQUEZ: And in this new video released by NTSB, it shows the landing gear near the seawall, the glide path on target but the speed way too slow. Three seconds before impact the plane just above the water is doing just 118 miles per hour. It should be doing around 158.

This is not something that I expected to ever view in my career.

MARQUEZ: First responders now coming forward. One police officer jumped into the burning plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw the black plume of smoke coming in, like something out of a nightmare.

MARQUEZ: Flight attendant Kim Ji Yeun, the last one off the plane, says she carried people piggyback from the smoldering wreckage. The two girls who died were sitting in the back of the plane, friends for years who often had lunch together. Friends and family are not surprised they were together until the end.

The family members of the two Chinese victims on their way to San Francisco to collect their daughters' bodies met with Asiana Airlines president Yong Du who apologized in person.


MARQUEZ: We're also hearing from another senior flight attend who was on that plane. She said there was no difference in the landing until it crashed. She also said the pilot of the plane told her to wait to evacuate as passengers were pushing to get off that plane, so that's something we're going to be looking into more as well. I'm sure as investigators will as well. Kate, back to you.

BOLDUAN: Miguel thanks so much. That investigation continues.

But now to a NEW DAY exclusive. It's very hard to imagine what it must have been like to be a passenger on Asiana flight 214 when the doomed jet went down. But three siblings on that plane know it all too well. Sara Sidner is live in San Francisco with their story. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, it is an incredible story, these three kids all under the age of 16 talking about this in the most calm manner, explaining what they went through when that plane smashed into the runway.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my god! Oh, it's an accident!

SIDNER: The chaos of a plane crash, the sudden impact, the spinning, the dust, the fire, and then the desperate scramble to stay alive.

ESTHER JANG, PLANE CRASH SURVIVOR: There was no warning or anything. It was just, just happened.

SIDNER: And 15-year-old Esther, 13-year-old Joseph, 11-year-old Sarah Jang and their parents were all inside the plane returning from a family vacation.

ESTHER JANG: We were all bouncing all over the place. I just remember there being dust everywhere and I was freaking out, and then it just stopped.

SIDNER: At first, the Jang siblings weren't sure they survived the crash.

JOSEPH JANG, PLANE CRASH SURVIVOR: I was also calling out for my parents and I was, well, I couldn't breathe for like, because I got the wind knocked out of me, so I couldn't breathe for a couple of seconds.

ESTHER JANG: So after everything stopped and then I realized I was alive and I looked over and I saw my brother and sister, they were both fine, and then I looked over and my mom and my dad, and they were both on the floor because their seats fell down, and then I called their names out, and they both like moaned kind of.

SIDNER: All five of them were hurt. The Jang family was sitting in the back of the plane when the tail hit the seawall. Their heads snapped forward, luggage fell and seats buckled, making it challenging for them to escape quickly.

SARAH JANG, PLANE CRASH SURVIVOR: Well, it was hard to get out.

ESTHER JANG: Someone helped us out and my brother and sister went out an exit on the right, and then I realized that I was limping and their exit did not have a slide. So a flight attendant brought me to another exit which had a slide, which was on the opposite side of the plane. SIDNER: The entire Jang family eventually made it out alive.

JOSEPH JANG: When we all reunited my family and I, I was really glad, so I started crying.

SIDNER: The Jangs set out for a memorable trip, the first time the children were going to South Korea for a glimpse of their heritage. But on the way home, they ended up learning a frightening lesson of survival.


BOLDUAN: Sara Sidner with that report for us, thanks so much.

CUOMO: The one girl with a cast on but other than that the worst part will be the memories, and luckily they'll be able to move forward with this.

BOLDUAN: Very difficult to put away.

CUOMO: What a story.

So in the weather we have a big storm brewing in the Caribbean. Let's get over to Chad Myers. Tropical storm Chantal, tell me about her, Chad, what's she doing now?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: The problem with this storm is that, yes, it's a 50-mile-per-hour storm probably headed almost to a hurricane. The last time we had a storm this far south this early, 2005. Think about that year, 28 named storms, one of the names was Katrina. This is not good. We're starting the season so early, 50 miles per hour headed to Barbados right now. Eventually into the Caribbean and very close to the Dominican Republic, probably by Wednesday afternoon right over the DR, and then where does it go? That's the big story. We know it will hit here and probably be torn up a little bit, that's a high mountain state -- country right through there. The mountains will tear it up but back into warm water and the computers are turning it left, a lot like Sandy happened up to the north turning it left because there's a big high pressure that won't let it go any farther.

Look at these computer models. The big turn to the left right there, anywhere from south Florida all the way up into the Carolinas. Could be a big storm. That's very warm water, the warm water over the Bahamas will be like putting 93 octane in your car. It will make it bigger. We'll watch it all week long.

BOLDUAN: Every day you got to check it because the models change day, by day, by day. All right, Chad. Thank you so much. There is a lot of big news happening this hour, so let's get straight to Michaela for the latest headlines.

PERIERA: All right. Good morning to the two of you. Good morning to you at home. New this morning, CNN learned President Obama is seriously considering a total troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. So- called "Zero Option" could happen as quickly as next year. Mr. Obama apparently frustrated with the country's president, Hamid Karzai. According to "The New York Times," their relationship is unraveling and hit a new low last month after Karzai walked away from U.S.- brokered peace talks with the Taliban.

Egypt's interim leader Adly Mansour ordering an investigation into the killing of dozens of Mohamed Morsy's supporters at the Republican guard compound. State media also reporting Mansour has issued a constitutional declaration giving himself limited power to make laws and outlined a timetable for parliamentary and presidential elections.

Venezuela's government says it has received a formal request of asylum from NSA Leaker Edward Snowden and has made an offer. It is now waiting to hear back from him. The country's foreign minister did caution Russia also has to weigh in on the request if he accepts. Snowden also has offers from Bolivia and Nicaragua for asylum. He's believed to be holed up still at that Moscow airport.

The defense of accused wikileaker Private First Class Bradley Manning beginning to lay out its case and asked the judge handling his court- martial trial to throw out most of the severe charges -- the most severe charges, rather. The judge said she would review the request later in the week after the prosecution responds. Manning's defense opened by saying he never meant to hurt national security but they say he believed Americans needed to know how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were being fought.

And finally, a surfing competition that has gone to the dogs. More than 40 pooches took part in the eighth annual competition in San Diego. The winner was an English bulldog named Tillman. Full disclosure, I know Tillman personally.

CUOMO: Do you?

PERIERA: He actually is a skateboarder. We met him first in the Rose Parade -- the Tournament of Roses parade. He is a skateboarder and clearly is quite a surfer.

CUOMO: Any comment? Was he surprised?

PERIERA: No comment from Tillman. I think he's surprised and honored by the honor.


CUOMO: Just to be nominated.

BOLDUAN: Just to be nominated.



PERIERA: I love bulldogs personally and when they surf --

CUOMO: I love dogs surfing.

BOLDUAN: You like it, sounds good.

CUOMO: That's all I got.

Coming up on NEW DAY, Trayvon Martin's marijuana use allowed in the trial by the judge. Why, and what could it mean? Our expert analysis just ahead.

BOLDUAN: And talk about a wild story, a Michigan woman plotting to have her husband killed. Seriously? The person she's negotiating with is an undercover cop and of course the kicker is the whole thing was caught on camera.

CUOMO: The line of the day comes from this story.


BOLDUAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY everyone. Setback for prosecutors in the George Zimmerman case. The judge ruled to allow evidence that Trayvon Martin had marijuana in his system the night that he died. This after emotional testimony from Martin's father, Tracy, called to the stand by the defense. CNN's George Howell is live in Sanford, Florida, with the latest. Good morning, George.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. So, we know that defense attorneys, they are going to call on several new witnesses today. We heard from Tracy Martin just the other day to try to help make their case, and we heard from a long list of people who seemed to be character witnesses all vouching that it was George Zimmerman's voice on that tape.


HOWELL: One after another, after another, defense witnesses hammered home the same answer when asked who was screaming on this 911 call.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you think he's yelling help?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, what is your --

MARK O'MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Do you know whose voice that is in the background screaming?

SONDRA OSTERMAN, WITNESS: Yes, definitely, it's Georgie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was George.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I heard the tape my immediate reaction was that's George screaming for help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose voice is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman's voice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's George Zimmerman. And I wish to God I did not have that ability to understand that.

HOWELL: It was John Donnelly's testimony that even made George Zimmerman emotional. Donnelly told jurors he bought Zimmerman's clothes for trial and once taught him how to tie a Windsor knot. Defense attorneys drew on his experience in combat as a medic who routinely heard people scream for help, to make their case that the voice screaming on the 911 call was George Zimmerman.

That set the stage for Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin's father. Defense attorneys first recalled two investigators who say Martin told them, no, the voice screaming was not his son. Then they put Martin on the stand.

TRACY MARTIN, TRAYVON MARTIN'S FATHER: I didn't tell them no, that wasn't Trayvon. I kind of, I think that chairs and the wheels on them, I kind of pushed away from the table and just kind of shook my head and said I can't tell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So your words were, "I can't tell."

MARTIN: Something to that effect, but I never said, no, that wasn't my son's voice.

HOWELL: Defense attorneys also called up the owner of the gym where Zimmerman trained to lose weight. To demonstrate how a person could hold another down, Adam Pollock got on top of attorney Mark O'Mara to show the jury. But when describing his client's skill level --

ADAM POLLOCK, WITNESS: He's still learning how to punch, he didn't know how to effectively punch.

O'MARA: On a scale of one to ten, where would Mr. Zimmerman fit?

POLLOCK: Like I said about a one.

HOWELL: Finally Judge Debra Nelson ruled that testimony regarding marijuana levels in Trayvon Martin's system will now be admitted as evidence for jurors to consider. Critical ruling as this trial moves into day 11.


HOWELL: Court is expected to start earlier today, 8:30 a.m. eastern time, and we expect the judge here to rule on whether a computer re- enactment of that shooting will be admitted as evidence in this case. The prosecution wants to keep it out, Chris, but we also expect to hear from more witnesses and a forensic pathologist who is considered an expert in that field.

CUOMO: All right, George. Thank you for the reporting. That's a very important argument they're going to have today. We're going to have to be on that.

So, the real Zimmerman? Question mark. This is the defense theory. We now know it. A little help from my friends. What does that mean? Well, they got up there and said he's not a vigilante, he's a good guy. And, people got up there saying I told him to carry his pistol with a bullet chambered. Very important because walking around with a gun like that, it assumes that you're looking to use it. So that was important.

He was soft. MMA came up, mixed martial arts, fighting. It came up kind of happenstance in this trial, but now it's an issue. So, Zimmerman had taken it for a year. His coach says he stinks at it. On a scale ten he was a 0.5, meaning he couldn't fight. We know what that means for the defense.

Going to pot. This was controversial, why is Trayvon Martin's marijuana use allowed? What is the defense going to use it for? How important could it be? Let's figure it out, and let's figure out at the end of all of it what this means in terms of the balance of the ups and downs.

Who knows better than anyone else? Our experts. We have criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos and CNN legal analyst and host of HLN's "After Darl," Mr. Vinnie Politan. You guys have switched sides but did you not fool me. I will start with you Vinnie all the same, great to have you both here. The drugs, why should they have come in here, how are they helpful instead of just prejudicial to the victim?

VINNIE POLITAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the problem is the way the judge read the case law down in Florida that she was compelled to have to allow this in. And what this does, this allows the defense to trash Trayvon Martin, to portray him as someone who was fueled by marijuana in this vicious attack on George Zimmerman. That's what they're going to argue and that's what the jury is going to end up hearing and the bottom line is you put marijuana into Trayvon Martin's system in front of this jury, it's a bad day for prosecutors.

CUOMO: Danny, can you prove to me that he had smoked immediately before this? Can you prove to me that marijuana made him in a rage?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, that is a really good point because marijuana is unique from other drugs in that you can test positive for marijuana but not be intoxicated. You don't have that with most other drugs. If you have alcohol in your blood you are on some level intoxicated but you can test positive for marijuana without being intoxicated and in that sense even though I think the evidence should come in I see the prosecution's argument in this case because there is that argument that it may not have affected Trayvon Martin at all.

However, isn't it interesting that if we were talking about a DUI case the government almost always says any amount of marijuana means that you are intoxicated, but in the case here, they've flipped their approach.

CUOMO: But rageful? That's a very different thing.

Okay, so yesterday it really all came down to the scream. We know how important it is to establish who started this altercation, matters for stand your ground, matters for self-defense. Let's unpack the scream with the rest of our time.

Let me ask you this, Danny Cevallos, you say it was George Zimmerman screaming, okay? That's the defense position. Obviously the prosecution, Vinnie, says, no, it would have been Trayvon Martin. Let me ask you, Vinnie, what's your argument for why Trayvon Martin would have been screaming?

POLITAN: Well he's fighting a grown man who has a gun. I mean that's the bottom line here.


CUOMO: Even though he was beating him up?

POLITAN: One person in this altercation has a gun and I'm not buying the story that George Zimmerman has told police about when and where he pulled that gun out. I believe the gun was pulled out much sooner than that and Trayvon Martin saw that gun.

CUOMO: If the gun comes out soon that's why he would be screaming, that's the answer from the prosecution. Thank you, Vinnie. Let me ask you this, you have all of these people coming up for the defense saying that's his voice. How many of these people pushed about whether they heard George Zimmerman scream before? Isn't that different from hearing my voice?

DANNY: Is that to me?

CUOMO: Yes, Dan.

POLITAN: Person after person after person up there becomes a problem.

CUOMO: What about the probative value of this, Danny? You keep asking people as the defense, is this him, they say yes. How do they know what it sounds like when he screams, isn't that different than a talking voice, Danny?

CEVALLOS: That was the argument earlier on but laypeople who are familiar with a voice can listen to it. Certainly there is a foundational issue. Is someone's voice different when they scream and when they're talking normally, but the defense came one a brilliant witness, an essential expert on screaming, a combat medic. How are you going to disbelieve him who in his experience has heard hundreds of grown men scream so he's familiar with the sound of screaming? They essentially back-doored in an expert on male screaming. It was beautiful.

CUOMO: I think if we're going to look at the strength of the defense here you're going to look at the witness that you just talked about, Danny, that was unchallenged and is able to represent that, and the witness, the friend who said I told him to walk around with a round chambered in the gun. takes care of a big problem for George Zimmerman if the jury believes him. Last question to you, Danny, if George Zimmerman is the one screaming, why did the screaming stop? George Zimmerman says after he shot Trayvon Martin he thought he was still coming after him. He thought the fight was still ongoing. If he's screaming, why did his screaming stop?

CEVALLOS: Well, George Zimmerman's story is pretty clear and pretty consistent. He shoots him, Trayvon backs up and says, "you got me," but George Zimmerman, still believing he's a threat, tries to physically restrain him. That's his story. It has remained relatively consistent, although in telling it 50 different times, there are some minor discrepancies.

CUOMO: Vinnie, I think you're killing me. I think you're beating me to death. I'm screaming with horror. I shoot you. You're still there coming at me, but I stop screaming? Makes sense to you? Who do you think the jury believes on that?