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Weiner Scandal Part 2?; Andrea Sneiderman Murder Case

Aired July 23, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, is accused murderer Andrea Sneiderman a criminal or is she crazy? The behavior bureau has answers.

Plus, someone wants to buy George Zimmerman a new gun. Why do they want to do that?

And Amanda Bynes hospitalized against her will. She`s on a 51/50. I`ll tell you what that means and where she goes from here.

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host is attorney and XM Radio host Jenny Hutt.

Coming up --


PINSKY: Hey, there, honey.

I have something with Amanda Bynes coming up being involuntarily committed.

But, first, we have breaking news. Disgraced former Congressman Anthony Weiner acknowledged today that newly surfaced sexts are indeed from him. He says they were sent after he had resigned from office in 2011 as a result of a sexting scandal. Yes, I know.

And apparently -- I have not read these things. My producers tell me what he was sexting is so explicit. Not only we won`t show you some of these things, we can`t even find anything suitable.

Mind you, Jenny, we all sat through Jodi Arias tapes, but I can`t show you these things they`re so explicit. And now, he`s running for mayor of New York City.

Watch this from just a few short hours ago.


ANTHONY WEINER (D), NY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I had said that other texts ands photos were likely to come out. And today, they have. I`ve said in the past, these things that I did were wrong and hurtful to my wife and caused us to go through many challenges in our marriage that extended past my resignation from Congress.

While some of the thing that have been posted today are true and some are not, there`s no question that what I did was wrong. This behavior is behind me. I`ve apologized to my wife Huma.


PINSKY: Joining us, Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Crystal Wright of, psychotherapist Robi Ludwig, author of "Till Death Do Us Part", and the human lie detector, Janine Driver, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me".

Jenny, you live in New York. Is he fit to be your mayor?

HUTT: Is he fit to be my mayor? Of course not. At this point, Dr. Drew, he`s too stupid to be my mayor. Forget about the fact he`s sexting someone outside his marriage.

Look, who are any of us really to be so morally sanctimonious or whatever. I mean, it`s not what I want to do and my husband would be in big, big trouble. But he got caught twice.

Come on. I mean, grow up. Knock it off. If you want to be mayor, be mayor. If you want to sext, sext. Don`t do both.

PINSKY: I`m going to tell you what though. This is a sign of something far deeper than bad choices and making mistakes. This guy is compulsively engaged in this behavior. It is very serious.

And I see no evidence that he`s had any real treatment. He doesn`t use the language of somebody who`s been through treatment. Neither does his wife. And speaking of his wife, Huma Abedin stood next to him smiling and pledging forgiveness.

Take a look at her.


HUMA ABEDIN, ANTHONY WEINER`S WIFE: It was not an easy choice in any way. But I made this decision that it was worth staying in this marriage. That was a decision I made for me, for our son, and for our family. I didn`t know how it would work out. But I did know that I wanted to give it a try.


PINSKY: And, Robi, good for her to live up to her commitment, but I don`t hear the language of a couple being treated. Do you?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: No. And also it seems to politically driven. When you listen to Weiner`s wife talk, it sounds like this is very rehearsed. I don`t get the sense that she`s staying in this marriage because she thinks that her husband can behave any better. I think they made a political decision.

And you`re absolutely right. It doesn`t sound like treatment was -- has entered into the equation at all. I don`t hear any remorse either. I just hear a lot of kind of rehearsed words.

PINSKY: Yes. A lot of B.S.

But, Janine, you`re looking at the body language. Does her or his body language tell us anything truthful here?

JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: Hey. I thought we had enough Weiner in 2012. He`s back for 2013 and I couldn`t be happier. My classes on detecting deception are going to be sold out now that he`s back.

The wife says, "I decided to stick out my marriage" and she leaks out contempt on the right side of her mouth, which we know is moral superiority. The wife actually is pacing back and forth when Weiner is speaking. And she turns her head away from him every time he says "I want another chance and I`m hoping to get any chance."

I don`t buy it. I found this to be incredibly entertaining. I could talk to your people for an hour about how rich this was.

Weiner, he sucked his lips in many times. When we don`t like what we see or hear, our lips suddenly disappear.

The wife said this, Dr. Drew: "I loved him." She said past tense. I loved --


PINSKY: It`s funny. Janine, as you`re saying, his lips in and covered his mouth which I believe is a sign of shame.

I want to ask -- Sam, I believe you were the one troubled by the fact she even spoke.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right. I thought it was off- putting that she would speak. I felt the approach from him was very disingenuous. Because he took advantage of the fact she`s very well- respected, very politically savvy and people in the political community and society in general almost put her up on a pedestal. I feel like he took advantage of that.

PINSKY: You know, his sexting name, by the way, was Carlos Danger.

Crystal -- it`s funny, but it`s really sad. The reality is. But, Crystal, I wonder if you have thoughts whether this is a politically glossed presentation and perhaps they are getting treated behind closed doors and we`re just not hearing evidence of that.

CRYSTAL BALL, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Well, I think everybody`s kind of covered the ground. Two things here: Anthony Weiner got up there and he acted kind of cavalier. Hey, guys. I told you more sexting messages were going to come out. You need to just get over it and give me a third chance. That`s really the problem.

He was having an affair and sexting after he resigned for six months with this girl on Facebook looking -- using Carlos dangerous. And as far as his wife, God, you know, help her. Poor Huma. She worked for Hillary Clinton. She was an assistant for her and she`s obviously getting her cues from Hillary.

You remember Hillary said in 1996, I`m not some Tammy Wynette standing by my man. Well, Hillary, you are. You`re telling Huma to do the same thing. I think it`s tragic, Dr. Drew.

I wonder, you know, he`s not -- I mean, he seriously seems to be a narcissist that needs some deep treatment.

PINSKY: Yes, well, she`s a reverse narcissist.

WRIGHT: She really -- yes. She needs to.

PINSKY: You mentioned -- you said this is an affair, a sexting affair. I have four or five women here, do you believe this sexting is, in fact, an affair? Show of hands?

HUTT: I`m going to go like this.

WRIGHT: I mean, he called her. He made phone calls.

PINSKY: So, Robi, it`s an emotional breach meaning what? Explain that.

LUDWIG: It means that someone of an emotional affair, if you are doing something you don`t want your spouse to know about, then that is certainly questionable. He knew his wife wouldn`t want him sexting with another woman, unless they have an open relationship, which I highly doubt.

WRIGHT: Right.

SCHACHER: And you know what, Dr. Drew? Who cares if she`s forgiven him? You know what? They have their own story in their marriage.

But at the end of the day, these New York voters, these New York City voters, they`re not invested in this relationship.

WRIGHT: Right.

SCHACHER: They`re not married to him. Why should they not question now his integrity and his judgment?

PINSKY: Yes, for sure. But we have a New York City voter amongst us. Jenny, go ahead.

HUTT: OK. I have two things to say, number one, sexting is far better than actual intercourse. I mean, neither good. But far better.

And "B," listen -- not good. But it`s better.

WRIGHT: Come on. I can`t believe you said that.


HUTT: No, no. What I can`t believe is you were so judgmental of Huma. I mean, how can anybody be judgmental to her rather --

WRIGHT: I wasn`t judgmental. I think it was Robi -- wait a minute, Robi said --


HUTT: Huma was making a choice.

WRIGHT: Right. Robi said it was politically motivated. It looks politically motivated, somebody just said that before me, but I`m the bad cop. Come on.

PINSKY: No, no, no bad cop. Hang on. Hold on. Okay. We can`t hear you when you talk over each other like that.

Now, I want to ask Janine this question. He keeps describing his behavior as a mistake. The way I said at the opening of this segment, it`s like my heroin addicts saying mistake today, took a rig, and shot some heroin. I know that`s bad, I`ll never do that again.

Janine, how can he have the hubris to get up there and talk about a very, very serious compulsive behavior as a mistake?

DRIVER: And he calls it as a thing that happened to us, he said. This thing that has happened to us, he said, about him and his wife. How has this happened to them?

This is something he did. I said this before, Dr. Drew. I`ll say it again. With Jodi Arias. Powerful people focus on the rewards, not the consequences when it comes to their sneaky behavior or deception. They focus on the rewards, we see it again.

But I`m going to tell you about Hillary Clinton. When Gennifer Flowers came out, Hillary Clinton said when the man I love is being thrown under the bus and the man I love is in the spotlight, it hurts me. When Monica Lewinsky came out seven years later, she said, Hillary -- when the man you love is thrown under the bus and the man you love is -- and I think we`re going to have it happen with Huma eventually. She`s going to say, you can have him, America. I`m done.

PINSKY: Interesting you guys. Good panel.

Next up, Andrea Sneiderman is accused of plotting the death of her husband. Another sexting mess went -- gone bad. And prosecutors are planning to take murder apparently off the table.

And later, radio talk show host Larry Elders says this: racism not a major problem in America anymore. And, you know, the young lady to his, our right, his left, will have something to say about that.

Back in a moment.


PINSKY: Andrea Sneiderman is accused of conspiring with her lover/boss to murder her husband. Her husband -- I know, it`s a terrible story. The husband was shot execution style just as he dropped his kids off to day care. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Widow Andrea Sneiderman about to go on trial for murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Sneiderman, we talked -- you talked yesterday --

ANDREA SNEIDERMAN, ACCUSED: I`m sorry. Can I be called Mrs. Sneiderman? Or is that against the court`s rules?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father`s murder and an alleged love triangle is about to play out in court. Prosecutors say Andrea Sneiderman conspired with her lover and boss, Hemy Neuman, to kill her husband.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This woman is not just unlikable, there is strong evidence that shows that she`s actually behind it all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A jury already convicted Neuman of that murder. And now, Sneiderman is facing justice.

PINSKY: She has pled not guilty, denies having an affair with her boss Hemy Neuman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bad boundaries and mental health issues is a recipe for disaster.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grinding on the dance floor and all that. That`s an affair.

SNEIDERMAN: I don`t care. Affair or no affair, there was no affair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say these two used the excuse of business trips to travel together and make nookie.

SNEIDERMAN: After every time we spoke to each other, it was as if he was my best friend.


PINSKY: Now with the trial days away, we`re hearing the prosecution may drop the murder charges decide what Darren Kavinoky said about there being strong evidence, that connection may not be as strong.

And this just in: a new hearing is scheduled for Friday. Prosecutors want jurors to hear testimony from Neuman`s friend, this friend who alleges the affair with Andrea Sneiderman did actually happen. She apparently witnessed something.

Joining us: Samantha Schacher, HLN`s Vinnie Politan, former prosecutor Loni Coombs, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", Brian Copeland, talk show host on KGO Radio in San Francisco, author of "Not a Genuine Black Man".

Prosecutors want Melanie White, Hemy Neuman`s friend, a realtor, to testify about a specific conversation she had with Neuman about which he spoke about a business trip he took with Andrea Sneiderman. Take a look at this.


MELANIE WHITE, REALTOR: That was when he said that they laid on the bed and cuddled and did just about everything but have intercourse. That they kissed and they fondled each other and then she got up and went into the bathroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that what he said?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he tell you what she actually did in the bathroom?

WHITE: Yes. He said he went into the bathroom to, quote, "finish herself off." As I assume that meant she went to the bathroom to masturbate.


PINSKY: Vinnie, the defense probably doesn`t want the jury to hear this, but why would they wait until the last minute to set up this particular hearing?

VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Well, they want to get it in. It doesn`t look like Hemy Neuman will testify himself, so you`re trying to get his statements in another way. He`s not going to testify because his appeal of his case is still pending. He`ll plead the Fifth and he won`t say a word on the stand. So he`s going to figure out a way to get these statements in and that`s what this hearing is going to be all about.

Prosecutors absolutely need to do this if they have murder charges pending is to link these two romantically.

PINSKY: And, Vinnie, do you think it`s a reach to put the gun in her hand, so to speak? I think she`s just a woman that got sucked into this guy who was manic and crazy and bad boundaries. They had a sexual exchange.

It`s just an example of what Cheryl Arutt was saying a few minutes ago in that piece. When you get in and cross boundaries with a person not well, it ends up in a bad place. But do you really think she`s a murderer?

POLITAN: Here`s the problem that I have with Andrea Sneiderman -- if we believe prosecutors other allegations against her of perjury, of lying on the stand. If she`s not telling the truth at the murder trial of the man who killed her husband, there has to be a reason why she`s lying about it.

So, if I`m a prosecutor and I`m convinced she committed perjury, then I should be convinced enough that she`s involved in this murder and put it in the hands of the jury to decide.

PINSKY: Loni, if the prosecution drops the murder charges, does that mean the state is beginning to believe her story?

COOMBS: No. It just means that this case is imploding. And I`ll tell you, it really sounds like it is. And I don`t get it -- as a former prosecutor, they have had over a year, almost a year since they filed this case to put this case together. And it`s just falling apart at the last minute. That doesn`t make sense.

And remember, a lot of the perjury charges are based on statements that she made in the trial of Hemy Neuman denying the affair. So, if the prosecution cannot prove that they were having an affair, not only does that damage the murder charges but it could wipe out the perjury charges that they`ve filed against her, too.

PINSKY: Jenny, you want to react?

HUTT: Yes. I just want to say that if, in fact, this witness` testimony is true, that is totally an affair. I`m sorry, fondling coworkers, that`s an affair. And that was some way specific testimony.

PINSKY: But it was --

HUTT: Wait, wait.

PINSKY: Loni, it was second hand information from a crazy guy.


COOMBS: Right. It wasn`t eyewitness testimony. It was double hearsay. It`s what Hemy told the witness. And what the witness testified. Most likely that`s not coming in in front of this jury.

HUTT: But one more thing, Dr. Drew -- here`s the thing. She benefited from his death potentially with insurance like $2 million of an insurance policy.

PINSKY: Yes. I want to ask Sam about that. She waited a whole two days after getting the money before telling the police that perhaps Hemy might have killed her husband. What`s that tell us?

SCHACHER: That sounds suspect to me. So, it`s that coupled with the fact she lied. What is she lying about? What is she hiding?

And yes, it`s frustrating because we hear, OK, fine, there`s circumstantial evidence suggesting that she did have an affair with her boss. And that also maybe partook in the murder. But is there hard evidence? Can the prosecution actually convict her beyond a reasonable doubt? I don`t know.

PINSKY: Brian, what do you think?

COPELAND: Well, I was going to say, I`m not surprised they`re talking about taking murder off the table at all. When I heard the indictment, I said where`s the murder? What you have here is a woman who lied repeatedly, obviously lied repeatedly about having an affair. People lie about affairs. That`s why they`re called affairs.

But that`s a long way from proving she`s Barbara Stanwyck in "Double Indemnity".

PINSKY: Vinnie, you`ve been watching this --

POLITAN: Yes, but it`s a different case. You`re not just lying about an affair. You`re testifying at the trial of the man accused of murdering the father of your children. This is at a different level now.


COOMBS: But the lies were about the affair.

POLITAN: There`s overwhelming circumstantial evidence. Clearly, there`s overwhelming circumstantial evidence. But is that --

PINSKY: Loni, go.

COOMBS: Remember, the lies were about the affair. She was denying the affair at that trial. So it wasn`t about the actual circumstances of the shooting.

PINSKY: But, Loni, you`re being coldhearted. Vinnie and I are saying --

POLITAN: It would impact the trial of her husband`s murderer, my goodness!

PINSKY: The murder of her husband, the father of her children. How coldblooded! That`s when you start doubting her.


COOMBS: If it`s true though, she`s telling the truth. Remember, the evidence we have about the affair is coming from Hemy who the jury found was mentally ill.

HUTT: So, hold on -- one more thing.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Jenny. Go ahead.

HUTT: I`m just going back to what we found out last night about him being in the backyard with the gun -- Hemy Neuman in a backyard with the gun. If she knew that happened and she didn`t go crazy figuring out it was him, that, too, to me is a sign of somewhat cold-blooded behavior. If it were my husband someone was in the backyard with a gun, I would have gone nuts. I would have protected him. I would have stood by him.

PINSKY: You`re right. There`s something for all of us to learn here. Do not -- I got to go to break, but watch your boundaries with not good people. And I don`t mean bad people. I mean people who are not well.

It goes poorly. It goes poorly if you have fun with somebody that`s not well. Get that person help. Don`t be gratified by whatever kind of relationship you might have with them.

Next up, for a woman facing murder charges, Andrea Sneiderman had exhibited some peculiar behavior. The behavior bureau is on the case.

And later, Amanda Bynes hospitalized held against her will for an evaluation. My thoughts, back after the break.



SNEIDERMAN: They took me into what I call the death room.


SNEIDERMAN: I sat in the chair and someone I have no idea who they are came over and said that he came in with multiple gun shot wounds and that he was dead. I don`t remember anything they said after that.


SNEIDERMAN: I fell to the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You found out at the hospital that Rusty had been shot.

SNEIDERMAN: That`s correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And you say the death room. At that point did they tell you or indicate to you Rusty was, in fact, dead?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Is that the first time you found out he was dead?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you found out he was shot?



PINSKY: Time for the behavior bureau. Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt.

Joining the two of us, Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal". Back with us Samantha Schacher, Robi Ludwig and Janine Driver.

Andrea Sneiderman has been seen laughing, crying, expressing anger, at one point, hugging and kissing I think on the mouth her former best friend off she got off the stand. That`s quite a kiss.

What do you see going on here? Aside from the body language, frame it this way. Is she sort of a borderline patient again like Jodi Arias with terrible boundaries and a lot of chaos, engaged in things she shouldn`t be engaged in? Or is she a real criminal?

DRIVER: We see similar antics to Jodi Arias, with the whole attitude, and her head is going, you know, like oh, no, you didn`t. I expected the snap.

It`s very interesting. When she says several times there was no affair, there was no affair, there was no affair, there was no affair. She keeps doing these shoulder shrugs which you know uncertainty. When you say would you like to go on a date with me, and someone says sure and they shoulder shrug, this person isn`t interested in going on a date with you. So, (INAUDIBLE)

And here`s the interesting aspect, Dr. Drew. In jail she was caught on tape talking about who could play her in a movie. And she said Sandra Bullock could play me if only she wasn`t so old. We have similar personalities.

Your husband is dead. You have two children.



You are talking about Sandra Bullock`s too old to play you? Are you out of your mind? She`s crazy.

PINSKY: We`re putting them up side by side there, I don`t know if you can see that, Janine, but we had Sandra Bullock up against Sandra Sneiderman.

Jenny, you want to say something?

HUTT: I do. What Janine said, I keep forgetting that it`s her husband who`s dead, because she seems so disconnected to it.


HUTT: I tend to go right to my life which I know pleases you, Dr. Drew. But the thought of being without my husband or anything happening to my husband, my gosh. I would throw up. The whole thing -- it`s just -- I can`t even.

PINSKY: But imagine it was because you were involved in a nefarious relationship with her boss. Even if it wasn`t an affair, you would still be shattered by it, wouldn`t you, as opposed as so defensive?

HUTT: Yes. Still, if you love your husband, you`re shattered, right?

PINSKY: Danine, you`re the other criminal investigator. I want your input on this. Do you think this is a person with a personality problem with bad boundaries again, or someone who really was after the insurance money and really was carrying on in this awful way?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I see that she`s very dissociative. I see that her behavior and her mannerisms do not seem to be of a grieving wife or of someone who really recognizes the seriousness of the situation.

What I don`t see is evidence of her being a murderer or being involved in the murderous plot. I`m waiting for that. I`m waiting for that to come out.

But all I see is someone who was trying to cover up an affair and who was acting inappropriately. I`m waiting for the link to be drawn.

PINSKY: I agree with Danine.

Robi, what do you say?

LUDWIG: You know, it`s really interesting. We know that it`s not uncommon for wives who have husbands who are murdered that they like the idea of their husbands being dead. And I know that this woman`s in-laws did not like her at all. And, in fact, blame her for the husband`s death.

She`s very bizarre in her affect. So, clearly, something is not working right. What role she had, it`s hard to know.

Now, she may make herself the center of some kind of drama and maybe she said something to her boss and he acted on it, but the degree to which he`s involved it`s really hard to know at this point. But it wouldn`t surprise me. I have to tell you.

PINSKY: Sam, you were trying to say something. Go ahead.

SCHACHER: I just -- with her I just feel like everything is forced. I feel like her running up to her friend giving her the hug and the kiss on the mouth I feel was so forced. I don`t feel like anything that comes out of her mouth is genuine.

And I think it`s so odd. What does it say to her behavior to even have an affair with her boss but for so many who -- she was aware of his delusions, she was aware that he loved her. He actually asked for her hand in marriage.

And she continued to encourage these advances. There`s something wrong with her too in my opinion.

PINSKY: Yes, I think there in, Janine, is where the rubber hits the road. She was gratified by this and she allowed it to kind of go on because it made her feel good or whatever.


PINSKY: But that doesn`t end in a good place. Janine?

DRIVER: Right. It`s that passive aggressive behavior. I, sometimes, would pull this on my husband. I`d be like, you know, I`m eight days away from delivering a baby. I`ll have baby Charlie (ph) coming, and -- I`m really hot right now, I could use a diet Snapple. And my husband is like, would you like me to get you a drink?

So, I think that maybe she did that in an exaggerated way to the point that literally she did this passive aggressive, if only my husband were gone, and was involved perhaps that way.

PINSKY: Danine, was that you agreeing with what I said?

MANETTE: I do agree. And I think that just because she`s happy that he`s dead or could be happy that he`s dead, I just don`t see that that means that she was responsible in doing it.

PEREIRA: Yes, I agree. I agree.

MANETTE: She could have sent the vibe out there.


PINSKY: Although, there`s a lot of evidence that she was this suggesting -- and she was having some kind of -- something that maybe, Jenny, you would sort of qualify as almost an affair.

HUTT: What do you mean? Hold on, hold on, hold on. She was having an affair. If they were doing every but --


PINSKY: -- everything she was alleged to have done, yes, they`re having an affair. But take a look at this, take a look, she denies everything. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn`t believe it. It wasn`t even possible. I thought I was being stupid. Who would think that this would be happening right now? Whose boss kills someone else`s husband? I don`t care, affair or no affair, there was no affair, who kills someone else`s husband?


PINSKY: Janine, what do you see? I don`t care, affair or no affair. I care.


DRIVER: -- this routine. You need to do what they did with the Jodi Arias where she was coming off the stand and you got kept repeating it. You need to do the Sneiderman shuffle with her --


DRIVER: Uncertainty, uncertainty, uncertainty. For certain, what I know is she`s a liar. She`s holding information back because she`s doing that, that`s where we get suspicious. Was she involved in the murder? If you`re lying here, what else are you lying about?

PINSKY: Right. now, if anyone has a question out there for the "Behavior Bureau," tweet us @DRDREWHLN #behaviorbureau. Thank you, panel.

Up next, the Zimmerman trial has filled intense racial debate. Miss Ali is back to keep that dialogue going.

And later, Amanda Bynes hospitalized and held in a mental institution for evaluation at the highest level of intensity of mental health services. It`s reserve for the sickest patients in the psyche hospital. We`ll talk about what that all means. Don`t go away.

VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," we`re going to talk about Andrea Sneiderman. And Ryan, rumors and reports that they may drop the murder charges against Andrea Sneiderman.

RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: But should they drop the murder charges against her? That`s our bold question tonight. We`ve got our in-studio jury deciding that issue. Talk about changing the complexion of this case if they do.

POLITAN: Absolutely. And I hope prosecutors are watching tonight, because you`re going to get a feel for what`s happening, because there are some prospective jurors here tonight.

SMITH: Oh, yes.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. We`re talking about George Zimmerman and race. Take a look at this.


SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You and I have almost single handedly insisted that we have this conversation. People are talking different this week than they were talking the past couple of weeks around the entire country because of what we`ve said on this show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve done for 30 years criminal defense where I`ve represented Young black males in the system, and there is an issue that needs to be addressed. We`re using the George Zimmerman case as the focus point for that. George was more clearly a non-racist than most people.

MANETTE: This was an innocent child. He had Skittles and an ice tea. I know we`ve been through the trial.

FRANK TAAFFE, ZIMMERMAN DEFENDER: Whitey like me had to endure affirmative action. We gave that to y`all.

BRIAN COPELAND, RADIO SHOW HOST: Every word that comes out of his mouth is like a turd falling in my drink.


PINSKY: Joining us, Larry Elder, radio talk show host in KBC, Crystal Wright from the conservative,, Brian Copeland, talk show host on KGL (ph) radio in San Francisco, and Shahrazad Ali, author of, "Are You Still A Slave?"

Now, we got word last night that the Sanford Police Department turned over all the evidence in the case to the Department of Justice, including the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin. Larry Elder, your thought?

LARRY ELDER, RADIO SHOW HOST: Well, my thought is that this case never should have been brought in the first place. I briefly worked for the DA`s office here in L.A. County. And let me tell you something. I`ve spoken to a number of career DAs and they tell me to a person that they would not have brought the case.

It`s a political case. I understand why it was brought. The state attorney was under a great deal of pressure. You have the Black community all upset. It`s easier to explain having lost the case and never having tried it. But if you`re looking for a case that`s a slam dunk, reasonable doubt case, I`ve never seen one that was more slam dunk reasonable doubt than this one.

I`m sorry that people are upset, but it never should have been brought. Had it been brought, they should have prepared the people for the probability that they were going to lose it. Cory didn`t do that. The president didn`t do that. That`s why so many people are upset.

PINSKY: Crystal, you have a respond to that. And B, I understand you want to say something about the evidence.

ELDER: You talking to me?

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVE BLACKCHICK.COM: So, first response -- no, I`m talking -- I`m going to agree with Larry, but I`m going to take it a step further. I think the fact that Eric Hold -- I mean, that the justice department is even entertaining this case is not only a travesty of justice, it`s really disgusting and despicable to the civil rights leaders like Medgar Evers, martin Luther King Jr. and others who were killed and lynched and tarred.

You know, it was awful, because here`s the thing. There`s no civil rights case here. And as far as the evidence goes, what really bothers me is you showed all these clips about everybody portraying Trayvon Martin as a 12-year-old innocent. "People" magazine plastered his face as a 12-year- old on the magazine when he was 17.

And as far as a little boy walking home with Skittles and it wasn`t Arizona tea. It was an Arizona water melon fruit drink. And what we know, because this is in the evidence and you can Google it on the internet, in the rap culture in the south, a drink was created called purple drank or lean as it`s called. Rappers like Lil` Wayne has used it.

And you know, how it`s made? It`s made with skittles or Jolly Ranchers mixed with a fruit drink and/or Sprite and you take cough syrup, Dr. Drew, as in Robitussin that has codeine in it, and that gets you high. You zip it slow.

And we know that our little boy that we`re trying to frame as an innocent was walk -- he wasn`t just walking home with Skittles and Arizona watermelon drink, I think that he was already high and he was going to mix up some more. So, he wasn`t an innocent. And I think the way this case was reported from the start was just not --


PINSKY: I`m going to give Brian a chance. Go ahead, Brian.

COPELAND: I do not understand, Crystal, why it is that folks like you and folks who have your point of view --

WRIGHT: Folks like me? Wait a minute, Brian.

COPELAND: When I say folks like you, I mean folks who have this point of view as far as this case is concerned -- are going to such great lengths to drag this dead kid`s body through the mud. It wasn`t enough to kill his body. You`ve got to assassinate his character.

Do you truly believe, honestly, truthfully, that this kid who has candy and has a drink who`s going back to his dad, going back to watch a basketball game with his father, is going back with his dad in order to mix some kind of a drug? And secondly if he was high, then where`s the toxicology that says so?


COPELAND: Crystal, I did not interrupt you when you spoke. Don`t go all Frank Taaffe crazy on me. Let me speak here.

WRIGHT: Oh, stop, Brian with the name calling. Come on.

COPELAND: Excuse me. I didn`t call you a name.


PINSKY: Crystal, I`ll present the liver evidence. I`ve read the autopsy. Go ahead, Brian. Finish up.

COPELAND: That was just it. I mean, there`s such a character assassination. Just a lot of thing is, it is not a travesty that this is investigated. You know, the justice department is investigating. They`ll find a reason to charge this or they won`t. Why is it a travesty that is being looked into? And Dr. king and Medgar Evers most certainly would have wanted it investigated.

PINSKY: I want to give Miss Ali a chance --


PINSKY: Hang on, Crystal. I`ve got to give Miss Ali a chance. I`ve watched her spine straighten and stiffen through this whole conversation, but she`s been waiting quietly. And I`ll tell you about the liver evidence and the autopsy after the break. But Miss Ali, take us home.

ALI: Well, I just knew the case wasn`t going anywhere when they told me that Eric Holder had put out an e-mail requesting opinions from the public about what they thought about the Zimmerman verdict. He`s not going to do anything. Eric Holder`s not in charge of anything. The White man who are really in charge at the Department of Justice are not going to let him take that case anywhere.

PINSKY: Do you think they should?

WRIGHT: You mean the president who`s a White man? The president, Barack Obama, who`s the first Black president? Come on.

ALI: No. I`m talking about the same White man that`s in charge of Barack Obama, too.



PINSKY: Hold on now. Let`s keep this going. we`ve got more with Miss Ali, more with Larry Elder, more with my panel, and I`ll tell you about the autopsy results after the break.



ALI: You know what we need? We need as Black people some behavior cognitive therapy. We need to be able to connect to thoughts and the feelings and the behavior and see how this depression has turned us into self-destructive behavior on ourselves. We need that kind of help. And you`re not going to give us that kind of help because it costs too much money and that`s one-on-one therapy and we just can`t get that.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Some profound words from Miss Ali. A couple of things before we go back to the panel, "A," Miss Ali, I love the dress that matches the crown tonight. "A," well done. "B," I promise to give the results of the autopsy. And, in fact, Crystal has a point. What was in the autopsy report of Trayvon Martin`s liver was something called fatty metamorphosis.

That can be incidental, but the most common reason for that is heavy alcohol exposure. Just saying, that is a fact.


PINSKY: I`m not saying anything about him. Listen, these are my -- my patients, I love my patients. They are great people. And they have fatty met metamorphosis in the liver. So, it doesn`t, to me, have (ph) anything about character. But I want to go to Larry. Larry, it`s your first time on our program.

You`ve heard Miss Ali give some extreme statements. What she says is colored by -- she just said there in that statement. The trauma and the 400 years of Black holocaust and it causes her to see things in an extreme way and she ain`t alone. She was not alone on what she believes. I`d like your response.

ELDER: No, she`s not alone, but in my humble opinion, Dr. Drew, racism is no longer a major problem in America. I know a lot of people feel, otherwise. Getting back to this case, there were three major witnesses. The first one was the ear witness and eyewitness of neighborhood good. He put George Zimmerman on the bottom. He put George Zimmerman is yelling. The next major witness was Serrano, the lead detective.

He said he believed Zimmerman and when he was skeptical at first, he told Zimmerman there might be a tape at which time Zimmerman said thank God, and then he believed him. And then you have that lousy witness, Rachel Jeantel, probably one of the worst witnesses I`ve ever seen. Those are the three major witnesses. None of whom came close to doing what the prosecution wanted.

And as far as character assassination is concerned, you get in line. Wait and see what happens if and when the Martin family files a civil lawsuit. All the stuff about the drink is going to come in, the stuff about lean, the stuff about him having been suspended from school three times, indeed, was on suspension at the time he was killed.


COPELAND: That`s justification for him to be killed. You`re right. The fact that he got suspended from school. You`re right. That`s justification for him to be --

ELDER: And of course, that`s exactly what I said that there was justification for that.

PINSKY: Hang on. You guys, I want to move back from the case a little bit. I`m going to go back to Miss Ali. Miss Ali, I think your polemic scares people.


ALI: I can tell.


ALI: I can tell how a Black man talk whether or not he got a White girlfriend.

PINSKY: Oh. Come on. Miss Ali, Miss Ali, hang on. We got to keep this conversation --

WRIGHT: Come on.

PINSKY: Yes -- in the civil zone. Will you promise me that?

ALI: Yes, sir.

PINSKY: Not name calling. Crystal still here in spite of you calling her names. Everyone still stand enough (ph) but wants to hear your point of view because you represent a point of view. But I`m just wondering, will relations improve or deteriorate as a result of all this discussion? Are we going to move this forward? Miss Ali then I`ll go around the horn. Miss Ali, first.

ALI: Well, I think that it certainly is going to move a lot of Black people forward, because now they know that they can maybe speak out and express themselves. And that`s very important that people can express themselves, because most of my people have been so scared that, you know, we don`t talk about things.

But I think one thing that`s not going to help us is right now in Ohio -- I`m over here in Ohio -- there`s a bill in our legislature that`s going to allow people -- we already can carry concealed guns in bars over here.

But now, we`re going to be able to carry a gun in church, in day care centers, a concealed weapon in government building and colleges. Now, you know, all we need is somebody to come into the IRS building with a gun.

PINSKY: Miss Ali, I`m going to interrupt you. I will bring you back for a gun debate. I`ll bring you all back for that. That`s a whole other topic we can get into, and that`s all we`ve been reporting on all year is tragedies about guns. Hang on. Miss Ali, I`ve got to go around the horn. Got to go around the horn. Brian. Real quick. Make things quick, everybody. I`m up against the clock.

COPELAND: OK. Just quickly, I`m optimistic and I hope that something positive will come from all this and that maybe some people will be enlightened as to how the other America thinks --


PINSKY: I sure agree with you. Crystal?

WRIGHT: Yes. I agree with Brian. I think that what this has put the spotlight on, Dr. Drew and I thank you, that all Black people don`t think alike. Some people share Shahrazad`s view, Brian`s view, Larry`s view, and my view. And frankly, Blacks are no different than White Americans. So, we`ve started a dialogue. And maybe we can end the name calling and the group think and realize Blacks are equal in every aspect.

PINSKY: Jenny then Larry. Jenny first.

HUTT: We are all equal, but if you`re questioning is there still a racism issue, then there`s still a racism issue. Frankly.

PINSKY: Worthy of ongoing discussion. Larry, take me home.

ELDER: 7,000 homicides last year of Black people, almost half the total. Ninety-six percent of those were killed by other Black people. Since Trayvon Martin was killed, 500 people have been killed in Chicago alone. Seventy-five percent of those homicides unsolved. Where are the cameras?

PINSKY: Got to go. We`ll keep this conversation going.

Amanda Bynes back in the news. I`ll tell you what is going on with this troubled actress after this. Be right back.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt and the "Behavior Bureau," Samantha Schacher, Robi Ludwig, Danine Manette.

Amanda Bynes has been hospitalized a 72-hour hold, known as a 51/50. Authorities in Los Angeles suburb took her into custody last night. Apparently, it was the second disturbance she was involved with, this time, after she allegedly set a fire outside a home. Samantha, you followed Amanda`s career. What do you think?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: This is so tragic, Dr. Drew. We`ve been talking about this for over a year. OK? This erratic behavior, these run-ins in the law, but more importantly, the erratic behavior that she had demonstrated is not indicative of the Amanda Bynes that people knew three years ago.

PINSKY: And Sam, I would say, not indicative of somebody who`s just screwing around and having fun.


PINSKY: Robi, the internet, the social media has given people sort of -- allowed really psychiatric behavior to be passed off as they`re just amusing, they`re just funny people. Robi, your thoughts?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSY.D., AUTHOR, "TIL DEATH DO US PART": Well, I mean, I think that is just denial when you see an actress and people really love her and followed her career, they don`t want to believe someone like her is suffering from a mental illness or potential drug abuse or is a danger to herself or others.

So, it would make sense if they`re reading things on social media, they might find it entertaining. Who wants to believe someone is suffering from a severe mental illness?

PINSKY: But they`re common. And now, we --

LUDWIG: Nobody really wants to believe that.

PINSKY: But now we know for sure that she has this condition, because you don`t come into a 51/50 without meeting criteria for the most serious mental illness possible. That`s why you relinquish your liberties, you relinquish your rights, you`re held against your will. The parents are seeking a conservatorship. Danine, I hope they do that. It`s absolutely could be life saving for her. Do you agree?

MANETTE: I do agree. I definitely agree. And I also think that it`s really sad what happens to so many of these child stars. I mean, we had Lindsay Lohan before her. And then, you know, when she got old and then we have Paris Hilton, she wasn`t really a child star. But Britney Spears, I mean, it seems like -- it`s always seems to cycle around. And the more the cameras focus on these young girls, the more out of control their lives seem to spiral and the worse they seem to get.

PINSKY: Got to get out. Jenny, I`ll give you "Last Call" next.

HUTT: All right -- oh.


PINSKY: And the "Last Call" goes to Jenny, thoughts on Amanda.

HUTT: What if her parents are contributing to the mental illness, then maybe conservatorship isn`t a great idea?

PINSKY: Well, this seems like major mental illness, like a biological problem and families got to step in or get formal conservatorship, somebody who`s a professional conservator. Thank you, Jenny. Thanks for watching. We`ll see you next time. "HLN After Dark" starts right now.