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Weiner Sex Scandal; Andrea Sneiderman Murder Case
Aired July 24, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, sexting -- downright dirty sexting and lewd online chats. Does this man get it?
ANTHONY WEINER (D), NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: These things are in my past. These things are in my past and I think that citizens understand that.
PINSKY: Plus, is this woman guilty of having had an affair? And what is an affair?
What the behavior bureau tells us may surprise you.
And the family George Zimmerman rescued from a rollover accident.
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio host Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, the family George Zimmerman pulled from a SUV rollover.
And the behavior bureau answers this question, how do you define an affair?
But first, New York City mayoral candidate Anthony Weiner, Jenny, I know this is your territory. I want to hear it but first -- not your territory because of the sexting but because you`re a -- you`re a New Yorker. You live in that city.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Right.
PINSKY: And I want to hear what New Yorkers are thinking about this man.
He admits to sending dirty pictures and messages to multiple women for a long period of time. I`m saying and on multiple occasions, I`m saying he`s probably still doing it. He says he`s sorry and that he`s sorry and it`s behind him except it isn`t because I was doing it late in the year.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heads up, heads up.
WEINER: My name is Anthony Weiner, Democratic candidate for the mayor of New York. I hope they are willing to still continue to give me a second chance.
There is no question that what I did was wrong. This behavior is behind me. I want to again say how very sorry I am to everyone that has been at the receiving end of these messages and the disruption that this has caused.
My wife, as I said, are moving forward together.
HUMA ABEDIN, WIFE OF ANTHONY WEINER: What I want to say is: I love him, I have forgiven him.
WEINER: I`m surprised that more things didn`t come out sooner. I`m responsible for this behavior that led us to be in this place. Some have asked us the question, where does this fit in, some timelines -- the resignation was not a point in time that was nearly as important to my wife and me as the challenges in our marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us to discuss, Danine Manette, infidelity expert and author of "Ultimate Betrayal," Crystal Wright from conservativeblackchick.com, our human lie detector, Janine Driver, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me", and Shahrazad Ali, author of "Are You Still a Slave?"
Danine, I believe you got a lot to say about this topic. I`m going to let you go first.
DANINE MANETTE, AUTHOR, "ULTIMATE BETRAYAL": I was really disturbed by some of the comments last night made about the wife of Anthony Weiner, the judgmental statements and inconsiderate and uncompassionate statements that were made about her. I recognize what her husband has done.
And as someone who has been working in the infidelity community and runs a support group that had been doing for the last 15 years, I think that to beat up on this woman and to make judgments about whether she should or should not stay in her marriage is completely out of line. That is her decision to make and all of this comparing her to Hillary and chastising her for standing by her man, that`s for her to decide to do. She makes the decision about what happens in her family and with her marriage.
If we`re talking about whether he`s a reasonable mayoral candidate -- fine. That`s for the public to decide. But leave that woman alone. She`s going through hell.
PINSKY: Jenny, you`re saying yes and then I`ll hear from Crystal.
HUTT: I`m in full agreement with Danine, 100 percent. How dare anybody question what she does? She`s the wife. She`s the one married to him. She decides how she wants to handle it. We`re not in that marriage, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Fair enough. But I agree. I commend her, if they get treatment. I see no evidence of treatment going on here.
And, Crystal, it looked like a political maneuver.
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: It -- I mean, thank you, Dr. Drew. I really don`t know how two women can sit up there who are married -- I mean, Danine, I`m assuming you`re married. How do you say that Huma holds no accountability?
Her -- she puts herself in the public light by marrying a politician.
HUTT: Hold on.
WRIGHT: She stood up there. She looks, it was -- I cringe for her. She looks so humiliated and I want to say, Huma, why are you even standing up there? This isn`t behind you. It`s clearly not because it`s between you and millions of Americans --
PINSKY: Hold on, guys.
WRIGHT: -- when your husband has blasted his -- wait --
PINSKY: Go ahead, finish.
WRIGHT: When he blasted his genitals all over the Internet. I think it`s repugnant. It makes her look like a political operative, out to behave and walk in the footsteps of Hillary Clinton. Shameful.
PINSKY: I want to hear more from the panel.
Ms. Ali, go.
SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, women who don`t have no man have a lot of opinions about it.
But here is the issue. Historically, white women have been programmed and trained to stand by their man. They have songs about it. They support them, and rightfully so, I agree. And they are always there to say, I forgive him and I`m with him.
Whereas we as black women, we have not been allowed to support our man so when we write a song, it`s not stand by your man, it`s -- I bust the windows out of your car. And we go through all of that. This has been how it`s been for us.
But I think those honorable women -- Hillary Clinton is a wonderful woman to stay with her man. I don`t think any of us can decide how that works. Anyone in this country that`s been married knows you have to go through a lot of changes to be with a man.
PINSKY: Well, don`t bash the man too hard. We`re not all that bad.
Janine, I want to know what you see in the body language of Huma.
JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: I think she has a lot of grace. She forgave him once. To forgive him a third time is really just incredible. I think that she just was really confident in what she was saying, however, we see her giving Anthony Weiner, husband, a cold shoulder. Several times, she looks away. I think here`s more to this story here that we`re not hearing.
I don`t think this is a black or a white thing. I think bringing in race is ridiculous, quite frankly, and I`m offended by that. I think every marriage has their own guidelines of what is acceptable.
PINSKY: All right. Hold on.
DRIVER: Statistics show, Dr. Drew, that between the ages of 35 and under, about 15 to 20 percent of men cheat. About 15 percent of women cheat. Men over the age of 60, white, black, Spanish, over the age of 60, since 1991, infidelity has doubled.
It has -- for men, tripled for women over the age of 60.
PINSKY: All right. We`re going to talk exactly what that is about in the next block but hang on, these latest leaks of these raunchy texts have been traced to a 23-year-old named Sydney Leathers. She posts a lot of politically oriented comments on social media.
Her friend just spoke on CNN`s "A.C. 360". Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She initially contacted him through twitter. She was a fan. She said that she was a fan. I assume that based on how beautiful the young lady that Sydney is, Anthony had no choice but to act on his instincts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That`s very weird to say, he had no choice but to throw a picture of himself on up there.
But the friend says that they talk about making money off Weiner`s indiscretions, but when the woman took the messages around, they decide -- the friend, I guess this guy, decided to go public.
Crystal, is there anything else that we know about this woman?
WRIGHT: Well, what I found amusing is I was reading a lot of news articles about her. She said she got really turned on when Anthony Weiner talked about Obamacare and she said -- and I`m going to stay away from the raunchy language, but she said that he could send her pictures of his you- know-what until the end of time or you, know, his entire lifetime, just as long as he continued to legislate the way he did because it really turned her on.
So, we have a little political junkie here. She didn`t just like the little sexy pics. She seemed to have the hots for him politically.
I just -- I just think it`s really sad, though. It`s back to what Janine said. It`s his fault. It`s the man`s fault here.
Men or cheat -- look, women cheat, too. But what I think what is -- I don`t like this fact that women can`t talk about the wives because political wives choose to be married to these narcissistic men and like it or not, if your husband is in the public light, guess what, folks, you`ve got to face the music and this is what this is all about.
So, people have every right to question her -- her credibility. Like why is she staying with this man? She has a lovely little son. And she`s Muslim, by the way, Shahrazad. She`s not white. It has nothing to do with race. I mean, come on.
PINSKY: Ms. Ali, do you want to respond to that?
ALI: Well, I think that she has set a good example -- and I was still talking about white women -- but I think she has set a good example and I think black women could learn something from her and the fact that she`s Muslim and he`s Jewish, I agree, is a real -- and he called himself Carlos Danger.
Once again, he`s using another nationality to hide behind his filth. Why didn`t he call himself Abraham Danger? Why is he Carlos, a Latino name?
PINSKY: Danine, let`s get this back to what can people learn from what these two are going through?
MANETTE: Eighty percent of marriages that deal with infidelity, the couple tries to reconcile. That`s just a fact, in 80 percent, whether they`re able to do it or not. But until you walk a mile in this person`s shoe, until you weigh what she has to weigh in front of her, you can`t speak on that.
It`s like my husband saying, what`s the big deal on child birth? It`s no big deal.
Stay in your lane. Until you can walk in this person`s shoes, you cannot judge her.
WRIGHT: It`s called --
MANETTE: I`m just letting you know --
WRIGHT: I`m letting you no know that my parents have been -- my parents have been married for over 40 years. I know a lot about marriage.
WRIGHT: And I don`t appreciate the talking down --
MANETTE: Until you walk in a struggle, saying something and living it is two different things, sweetheart. Two different things.
ALI: How long have you been married, sweetheart?
PINSKY: Hold on. Jenny, here`s my problem with this. Is that we have a lot of obfuscation on the part of Weiner. We have a lot of misinformation and unclear reports, more to come, more to come. Jenny, I think there`s a lot more to come and I wouldn`t be surprised if he was sexting this morning, because people that have that kind of a compulsion, it`s not about bad choices, it`s not about mistakes, it`s not about being a bad person, he has a significant emotional problem here and I see no evidence of any language of someone who has been through treatment.
They may have had couples counseling or something but, Jenny, I don`t see any evidence of real treatment and that`s where I`m concerned about this couple.
HUTT: Fair enough. I understand your concern. I`m just concerned right now in the moment about Crystal`s level of judgment towards Huma. That`s all.
And, Crystal, I understand your parents have a lovely marriage. But it is true, until you`re actually in a marriage, you don`t know what anyone`s specific marriage is. I don`t know what Danine`s marriage is.
WRIGHT: I didn`t say that.
HUTT: We never really know --
PINSKY: Drop it there. Hold on.
WRIGHT: I never said I was a mind reader. But I never said I was a mind reader. I don`t know why you guys are --
ALI: Or are white.
WRIGHT: I think it`s really funny.
PINSKY: After the break, I want to know this from each of you. Listen carefully. Crystal, listen to me, I want you listening.
If this guy were -- in fact, if your husband was doing what this guy is doing, would you stand by your man? Would you stay with him? I want to see a show of hands when we get back from commercial.
And later, the family George Zimmerman pulled from overturned SUV just days after his not guilty verdict. We are back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEINER: I know that this was a very public thing that we had happen to us but by no means does this change the fundamentals of my feelings here.
HUMAN: Anthony has made some horrible mistakes both before he was running for Congress and after. It took a lot of work and a whole lot of therapy to get to a place where I could forgive Anthony.
REPORTER: Why should we believe that this isn`t going to happen if you are going to relapse if you are mayor?
WEINER: This isn`t entirely behind me, when I decided to get in and we had this conversation. People are out there saying things that are -- that are not true. But that`s not -- but that`s not the point. That`s not the point. Thank you all very much.
REPORTER: Why should we trust your judgment?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt.
Before the break I asked each of you to think about whether you would stand by your husband if he behaved the way this man behaved. I want to see a show of hands right now. Anybody who would stand by your husband if you`re behaving like this. Anybody?
Ms. Ali would?
HUTT: Stand by, I probably I -- it`s complicated, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes or no, Jenny?
HUTT: I can`t give you a yes or no, honestly.
PINSKY: Huma had to give it yes or no. I need you to give a yes or no.
HUTT: I am not thankfully in that circumstance today.
PINSKY: Because I tell you what, that`s one of the big decisions that couples have to make in this situation. They have to decide, I`m going to work on this, to stick it out, or am I getting out of her? That`s the first decision.
Danine, do you agree with that?
MANETTE: Yes, absolutely. Do you mean stand by physically? Because I would not have been up on that stage, standing by him physically.
PINSKY: Why? Why not?
MANETTE: Because I think that this was his thing to go out there --
PINSKY: I agree.
MANETTE: (INAUDIBLE) I think he needed to take that step for himself.
PINSKY: I think that`s humiliating for a woman to stick her up there like that and I think Crystal was reacting to that. Were you not, Crystal?
WRIGHT: I agree with you, Danine. We agree on something. Couples, whatever their decision is, they should work it out in private.
Eliot Spitzer`s wife, she didn`t -- I don`t remember her standing by him. I respect that.
I`m just commentary on the fact that he`s running for New York mayor and unfortunately she`s his wife, so she opens herself up for criticism. I`m not blaming her by any stretch of the imagination. And he seems to blamer had.
PINSKY: All right.
WRIGHT: He keeps talking about, oh, our problems, this that and the other.
PINSKY: Yes, they keep talking about their relationship. I don`t see any evidence that his stuff -- she has had treatment. Again, I don`t see - - the way he talks about it is so rough --
MANETTE: And, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: But hang on, I`ve got to go to Ms. Ali, who`s been kindly holding her hand up. And, Jenny, I go to in a second.
Miss Ali, A, you raised your hand very confidently that you would stand by your man and, B, you`ve been laughing to yourself the whole time we`ve been talking. I`m curious about what you are laughing about. But go ahead and give us your comment.
ALI: Well, I think that we are misjudging his wife and what her part is in this. People are together because they are alike.
The other thing is, I think American women have a misconstrued idea of what marriage is, and no woman can be everything to a man. Men have different ideas and we don`t accept that in this country. And so, it`s like black men, before we were brought to this country as slaves, black men had more than one wife.
And so, all of those different needs could be taken care of, but because we`ve been over here in this American Christian idea, now, the women are so insanely jealous that a man can`t have two women unless he has one of them and sneaks around.
And so, I think it`s just a case of his wife is not every women. All those songs about, I`m every woman, no, we`re not. No, you`re not. You know, we have to be who we are and be happy with the part of the man that we`re blessed to have.
PINSKY: Janine -- by the way, just a shout out to my wife, you`re good enough to me. You`ve got all of me. Anybody, I want to reassure all of the other wives out there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, right.
HUTT: Dr .Drew, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Janine, go ahead.
DRIVER: I want to talk about that clip that you just played, Dr. Drew. When we see people wagging their finger at us, we often might think this is a person being powerful but it`s usually a sign of a lack of power so we see this with Anthony Weiner right here, then he repeats this same phrase, you know, that`s not the case, that`s not the case.
When we have repetitive statements like this, Casey Anthony, Casey Anthony talked about calling Zenaida, the nanny that had her daughter supposedly, I called her, the phone didn`t work. When I called her, the phone didn`t work and it was disconnected.
His repetitive statements are sign of stress often linked with deception and a lack of control.
PINSKY: And, Janine, also --
DRIVER: This is probably not the last we see of Weiner popping up with this before the erection -- I mean, the election.
I also noticed, Janine, that he never looked at any of the people that were asking the questions of him when he answered. He always looked down and over to the side, which is, he could be thinking but he never looked back up to address the people he was speaking to.
DRIVER: Right. We have a change in his behavioral pattern here and I call those hot spots. But those hot spots exist, Dr. Drew, with an increased in stress and anxiety. Does stress and anxiety belong here? Yes. But this -- how many chances are we going to give him.
I agree with Danine. I would not stand by my man in front of the limelight. With regard to just to let you know, with Spitzer, Spitzer`s wife came out and said it was her fault that he stepped out of the marriage because she didn`t do enough. But she did stand by her man in a big way.
PINSKY: Hang on, I`ve got a phone call from Dina in New Jersey. She has a question for the panel. Dina, go ahead.
DINA, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Dr. Drew. I`m a huge fan. I just have a question.
What message are we sending to young women today? And do any of the women on the panel have any daughters, what are the message that we`re sending to our daughters? Can we accept this behavior? I think not.
PINSKY: Dina, great question. I agree with you.
Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: OK. I am not saying except that behavior in any one specific marriage. I`m saying that every marriage determines what is right within - -
WRIGHT: That`s right.
HUTT: -- that marriage.
I`m saying that in terms of -- you were asking the question to me earlier, Dr. Drew, what would I do, the reason I said I don`t know is that if our marriage was broken down and my husband had to seek gratification elsewhere or if I had to seek gratification elsewhere, then there`s something within the marriage that`s broken.
Do you understand what I`m saying?
PINSKY: Perhaps, Jenny, or perhaps there`s something in the individual -- listen, if you were married to a gentleman -- and again, I don`t know Mr. Weiner. I`m not evaluating him.
But let`s say you had a partner who became a drug addict. The relationship gets broken from his addiction and you factor into the addictive process and into the recovery, but it`s not about the relationship. It`s about that individual`s illness and that`s what I don`t hear anybody talking about.
This is -- this is something that`s far beyond a bad choice kind of a mistake, I guarantee you that. That`s for sure.
I`ve got to go to break, guys. Thank you. Good discussion.
Next up, did prosecutors go too far when they charged Andrea Sneiderman with murder? Was there ever a love triangle? The behavior bureau is on the case, and also address what exactly how they define -- the behavior bureau -- an affair and does it have to be physical?
Back after this.
PINSKY: Welcome back. My co-host, of course, Jenny Hutt.
Andrea Sneiderman accused of conspiring with her boss/maybe lover to kill her husband. Prosecutors may be dropping the murder charges against her. Why is the state back pedaling just days before her trial? Take a look at this.
ANDREA SNEIDERMAN, ACCUSED: Have you noticed what`s happened to my wife since Hemy was murdered?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say Andrea Sneiderman had an intimate relationship with the man who killed her husband.
SNEIDERMAN: I think I`m a pretty nice person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say these two used the excuse of business trips to travel together and make nookie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s when she said they laid on the bed and cuddled.
PINSKY: Denies having an affair with her boss Hemy Neuman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did just about everything but have intercourse.
PINSKY: Watch your boundaries with not good people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They kissed and they fondled each other.
HUTT: Fondling co-workers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. That`s an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grinding on the dance floor and kissing and all that, that`s an affair.
HUTT: That is totally an affair.
PINSKY: Time with the behavior bureau. Did she have an affair or is this just someone who is not maintaining proper boundaries with a co- worker?
Back with us, Janine Driver joining us, Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on Young Turks Network, clinical and forensic psychologist, Cheryl Arutt, and our very own HLN`s Jane Velez-Mitchell.
All right. Show of hands if she did not actually share a hotel room with this guy and didn`t grind with him on the dance floor as it is alleged through secondhand sort of reports -- my question is, did she have an affair? Show of hands.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: I think she had an affair.
PINSKY: One, two, three, four?
HUTT: I don`t know.
PINSKY: Everybody except Jenny?
HUTT: I don`t know.
PINSKY: OK. Why not, Jenny? Everybody except you.
HUTT: Listen, again, I would kill my husband. Not really.
But I would be very, very upset if he did anything like any of this. But if there`s no touching and she wasn`t really doing anything at all with him, I don`t know. I`m all confused about this case, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: How did you feel about it if this was your husband`s behavior?
HUTT: I would want to throw up. I would throw up. It would be the most awful --
CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Can I ask you a question?
PINSKY: Go ahead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How can you say there was no touching? There was an eyewitness who saw them dirty dancing together and groping each other.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Supposedly when they were on trips together she was so hot and bothered that she`d have to go into another room and finish herself off.
PINSKY: Thank you, Jane.
And the thing here -- but the point is, Jane, I want to get this clarified because those are second -- those are reports from people that claim to have seen something. But we do have some crazy texts and some crazy e-mails and she clearly was gratified.
Samantha, she was having sort of a sexual exchange with the guy, was gratified by that. She didn`t know he was bipolar but that`s the point, when you have poor boundaries with someone who is sick, bad things happen.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, here`s the thing, Dr. Drew, yes, by definition, a physical affair is way worse.
SCHACHER: However, both emotional affairs and physical affairs are equally destructive because in both cases, that individual is going outside of the marriage, seeking some sort of fulfillment which means they are going to be secretive, they are going to tell lies, it`s going to create distrust and most statistics suggest that when you engage in some of an emotional or online affair, more often times than not, you are going to result in meeting that person and having a physical affair.
PINSKY: Cheryl, what do you say to this? Cheryl?
ARUTT: Well, I wanted to ask Jenny in the very beginning, what about phone sex? What about intimate -- there`s no touching whatsoever but it`s sexual and granted -- what do you think about that?
HUTT: Dr. Drew asked the question initially, did I think Sneiderman was doing was an affair. He was saying not including the touching. If there was touching, 100 percent, that`s an affair. Jane, you are correct. I`m with you.
It`s unclear to me what the rest of it is and I think that`s determined within each of our own relationships.
PINSKY: OK. Jenny, here we go --
HUTT: That would be deemed probably an affair. It would not be OK for my husband to be sexting.
PINSKY: Right. It`s not a lot different than what Anthony Weiner was doing, is it? But here`s Sneiderman explanation as to why she didn`t see anything wrong with Hemy`s advances. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said, I love you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did that not cross your mind that someone was trying to break up your marriage?
SNEIDERMAN: No. I`m a pretty -- when it comes to relationships, Rusty`s the only person I`ve ever been with, the only person that I -- I met him when I was 18. I`m not really savvy in the relationship know-how. And was I naive in this situation? It`s possible. But I really -- not break up your marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Janine, are you buying this?
DRIVER: You know what, I hate to say this, but her body language is actually consistent with what she`s saying in that moment. It doesn`t mean that there`s not more to the story. We see a palm up gesture, Dr. Drew. This is a beggar`s pose. When we tend to be honest, we tend to give our hands out like this. Like a dollar, please, a dollar.
And also, when she`s saying no, her head is shaking no which is consistent. It doesn`t mean that she didn`t have an affair because she was deleting all these e-mails. She reminds me of that song from the 1990s, the girl who walks in, she sees her boyfriend having sex with some girl and the guy is like, it wasn`t me --
DRIVER: It wasn`t me, but I saw you in the bathroom. It wasn`t me.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR: Yes.
PINSKY: Jane, you`ve been watching this. I`ll put qualifiers on it. You`ve got all the details. How do you put this all together? I want people at home just to take away a little message here which is, if you`re secretive, if you`re engaged in behaviors that are going to be hurtful to a partner, it goes bad. And people can accuse you of all kinds of things, can`t they, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And look, I think there`s overwhelming evidence that she and Hemy Neuman had an affair. The question is, was she the puppet master orchestrating the killing of her own husband? And that`s where I think despite 9,000 pages of evidence and almost a hundred discs with interviews, et cetera, et cetera, I`ve been looking at all the evidence, they don`t have a smoking gun.
Why it took the prosecutor so long to realize that they don`t have a smoking gun? I don`t know. But I don`t think they can make the leap. The biggest thing they have is that she apparently knew that her husband have been shot before anybody officially told her. So, she says, oh, I learned at the emergency room, but she called two people allegedly before that and said my husband`s been shot.
How would she know that? Does she have a crystal ball? Is she a psychic? No. So, that is circumstantial evidence. Is that enough to convict someday and send them away to the slammer for life? I don`t know.
PINSKY: Cheryl, why is she getting out of this relationship with her boss?
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think that some sort of need for attention, for feeling important, for being the focus. I think those things were important. There`s some reports that she may had been resentful that her husband wasn`t helping enough with the children or supporting her enough with her career.
There may be other reasons. But to go and have such a boundary list clearly inappropriate relationship, whether it`s a physical affair or an emotional affair was destructive and the timing of this, you`ve got to admit, is very suspect.
PINSKY: Next up, was she really so naive about this relationship with the man who killed her husband? We`ll talk about it more.
And later, Miss Ali comes back. The family of George Zimmerman pulled from an SUV rollover. Was the rescue a stunt? We will ask her. You know she has an opinion. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After every time we spoke to each other, it was as if he was my best friend. Any time I spoke to him and said to him, you know, this is inappropriate or had a verbal conversation, oh, I understand. I respect your marriage, yet jab at my marriage, jab at my marriage, jab at my marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I don`t quite know what she means by jabbing. Back with "Behavior Bureau," my co-host, Jenny Hutt. We`re talking about boundaries, poor judgments. And Andrea Sneiderman, was she naive about her relationship with her boss? Who is the man that killed her husband?
Janine, particularly there on the stand, her body language suggested something other than honesty, didn`t it?
DRIVER: Yes, you know, there`s a lot of inconsistencies with Andrea Sneiderman. It depends on what she`s talking about at what moment. So, sometimes, we do -- I do think she probably was inexperienced. I do think her husband was probably one of the first people she`s ever been with. So, we`ve got honesty there.
The hardest lies to spot, Dr. Drew, are the ones where there`s partial truth and partial lie. Unfortunately, at bad news (ph), we are worse at detecting deception today than we used to be. Why? Our brain has its very old instinct. It has a very sensitive danger detection system. But because we don`t want to be seen as paranoid, we override signs of potential deception and we put ourselves in a dangerous situation.
PINSKY: We want to believe people. We want to believe people. Samantha, do you agree?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Dr. Drew, first of all, I do not think she was naive at all. I agree with Jane. I think that she engaged in this affair and I think that she feels guilty and shameful and she`d rather lie about it to perhaps make herself feel better or to paint herself in a better light to the public, and you know what, I think there`s more to the story. I think there`s more to Andrea Sneiderman than any of us realize.
PINSKY: Jen, Jane, "A," do you agree with that? And "B," tell me about this Joseph Delguy (ph) that`s entered the picture after her husband was murdered?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, this is absolutely crazy, Dr. Drew. This is like a triangle. It turns out that there`s this other guy, nice looking guy who is a friend of hers, who was visiting her after this tragedy occurred, and now, there`s a belief that allegedly purportedly possibly her ultimate goal was to be with this guy, not with Hemy, which to me makes more sense in the sense that he`s a better looking guy.
I mean, Hemy is not somebody on the face of it. First of all, he`s coocoo for cocoa puffs. Secondly, he`s the kind of guy, you take a look at him and you say, what, I`m going to risk my life, I`m going to risk my family to be with that?
So, it doesn`t even add up on the face of it. So, I think this other man that she befriended who spoke to her and they had tape recorded conversations, I think maybe that in her mind was the ultimate goal. Maybe Hemy had a crush on her and she had a crush on this other guy.
PINSKY: Jane, is she just somebody that needed all this attention from men and had horrible boundaries with them or do you think this is a criminal -- you`ve been watching this case carefully, Jane, you would think she`s a really calculated criminal?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that this is where the prosecution is stuck. I have all of these documents, all these e-mails. And guess what, most of it is Hemy Neuman describing, oh, she says that I`m a soul mate. Very little comes out of her mouth about this relationship and the text that we have, she`s talking to him as a friend. I`ll always be there as a friend for you.
Now, is she diabolically clever that she`s orchestrating these e-mails to look good, she`s sanitizing her own communications so that she knows she`s going to come out smelling like a rose? Some say she also deleted some communications. I don`t know. But the point is that there`s no smoking gun there that says she`s this diabolical criminal.
PINSKY: Jenny, what do you think?
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Yes. I`m all mixed up, too, which is exactly why to your point, Jane, the prosecution is going to have a hard time potentially because if we can`t figure it out --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Jenny. Finish it out. I`m sorry. Go ahead. Yes, if we can`t figure it out, how are they going to get to it? But I want Cheryl to put her clinical hat on and taking home with this. Should we feel sorry for her as a woman that needed all this attention and had poor boundaries? And as when people violate these boundaries, they end up in terrible -- I mean, she`s accused of being involved in the murder of her own husband.
So, her life is clearly unraveled since her husband`s death. Should we feel sorry for her or should we really question whether this woman is a calculated criminal?
ARUTT: Well, Dr. Drew, when I put my clinical hat on, I use my own reactions to somebody, my own counter transference, as we would say. And I wonder, where are my feelings for her? Where are my connections? The woman lost her husband, the father of her children. There`s such a disconnect there. There`s this incredible disconnect --
PINSKY: That`s like Jodi Arias. That`s like Jodi Arias, right?
PINSKY: Same thing we felt with her.
ARUTT: So, there`s something missing. There is some way that she just doesn`t seem to be fully present in what`s happening. And so, I think it interferes with our ability to really connect with her.
PINSKY: But somebody like that also is a kind of person with very poor boundaries. Janine, finish, quick. I`m against the clock.
DRIVER: -- Anthony, the grandmother of little Caylee Anthony, she was honest (ph) and our heart broke for her. When she was crying, we were crying. We have mirror near on (ph). When it`s genuine sadness, our heartbreaks. Cindy Anthony when she was devastated, we felt devastated. We don`t feel --
PINSKY: Same thing with Jodi Arias` mom, when she was crying about her poor daughter, we believe that, too. Thank you, panel. If you have a question for the "Behavior Bureau," tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
Up next, George Zimmerman rescued a family from an overturned SUV. Is he a hero? Was it a publicity stunt? Miss Ali and Frank Taaffe weigh in after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are people who believe that this was either staged or George Zimmerman was never there in the first place.
Sure. The facts are this. The deputy sheriff showed up and identified George Zimmerman as being on the scene. Fire department showed up identified George Zimmerman as being on the scene and the family identified him as being on the scene. Those who want to believe it was staged, they can go right ahead and believe that. They can believe the Earth is still flat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you make of this, this family all of a sudden deciding they don`t want to have this press conference?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think what happened with them today was they were very worried and I think were advised by some family and friends that they really should not get involved with anything having to do with George Zimmerman.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. The family George Zimmerman helped pull from an SUV cancelled the news conference today. Apparently, they fear the spotlight and their safety as many of the people involved in this trial have told us. It`s been quite a thing, being in the middle of these crosshairs. They were grateful for Zimmerman`s help, apparently. These friends report this.
Back with Shahrazad Ali, Crystal Wright joining us, Zimmerman friend and defender, Frank Taaffe. Miss Ali, some claim, and by the way, I have limited time, guys. Please, this is a fiery panel. Everybody play nice in the sand box with me. Miss Ali, some claim he was a hero, others thought it was a publicity stunt. What say you?
SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it could be a publicity stunt. We`ve had a lot of big ones in this country. You know, equal opportunity, integration, social equality. We`ve had a lot of publicity stuff.
PINSKY: Frank Taaffe, what are you hearing from George?
FRANK TAAFFE, ZIMMERMAN DEFENDER: This was quintessential George Zimmerman, pure altruistic in his desire to help another human being in a moment of tragedy and/or in accident. And to say that this was concocted, Miss Ali, you know, I`m wondering where the crop circles are coming from.
PINSKY: Frank, let me ask you this. Frank, let me ask you this. Didn`t he at least have to question whether he should be getting himself, injecting himself to any situations anymore given what he`s been through? Did that go through his mind?
TAAFFE: No. No. No. He saw human beings, humans. He didn`t look to see if they were Black, White, Asian. He stopped, applied his help, and he was just trying to be a human helping another human being.
PINSKY: All right. Crystal, do you have any thoughts on this? Hang on, Miss Ali.
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Well, I kind of agree with you, Dr. Drew. And Frank, you know, I`m a little troubled why -- I mean, I`m glad George stepped in and saved these folks, but you would think he would want to be out of the limelight because of all of the craziness going on with the verdict. He fears for his life. But can I just say one thing?
TAAFFE: You would think. You would think.
WRIGHT: I have a man crush -- well, no, I have a man crush on Mark O`Mara because every time that he`s questioned about his client, like he said today, he`s like, you know what, so you guys want to believe now the Earth is flat? I mean, exactly. You know, the jury spoke. George Zimmerman was found not guilty and it`s just on and on and on and no wonder that family didn`t want to hold a press conference. I mean, they would fear for their lives.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Jenny.
HUTT: Why even have a press conference to begin with?
PINSKY: Why not let this thing drop? Miss Ali, you wanted to say something?
ALI: Well, I wanted to say that, you know, White people did think the Earth was flat until some White explorers came to Egypt and got the information from some Black man that it was round.
PINSKY: Miss Ali, I love what your world view. It goes back to -- it`s fascinating to me. I need to know more. In fact, I will learn more.
PINSKY: I`m going to stay with this panel. We`ll be right back after this.
PINSKY: Welcome back. My co-host, Jenny Hutt. I`ve got a tweet here for you all. Of course, Miss Ali brings of action to Twitter. "Miss Ali brings an over the top delivery." This is from @MsNicoleBarett (ph). "Miss Ali brings an over the top delivery of some core truths which is exactly why I need to keep dissecting you, Miss Ali. I know you share a point of view that other people have."
Now, I`m going to present a little poll to you. This is according to NBC News and "Wall Street Journal." Race relations have suffered in the wake of the Zimmerman trial. Just 19 percent, Miss Ali, of African- Americans believe we are judged by the content of our character rather than our skin color. What does this -- how does this inform you? What does it tell you, Miss Ali?
ALI: Well, of course, it tells me that I just need to do what I`m doing, which is to stay on message, to share with you how different our definitions and priorities are. However, I think one of the best examples that we have is President Obama and his beautiful family and look at the racism he has had to endure from White America and all of the White men in the Senate and the Congress and the House and all of that in Washington.
They have treated him with more disrespect than any president we`ve ever had in this country. They have mocked him, put him on the internet as a monkey, put his family out there and insulted them. So, this is a demonstration of how much progress we have made in race relations.
PINSKY: Hang on, Frank. You`re up after crystal.
WRIGHT: I think everything Shahrazad represents is exactly why only 19 percent of Black Americans think they are judged on the content of their character rather than their race. That`s exactly what she --
WRIGHT: -- and that brainwashing by race hustlers. Excuse me. That brainwashing by race hucksters and hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson telling Blacks they can`t succeed because the White man is out to get them, the White man is racist. And if it was -- without government, Black people can`t do anything.
So, I think this is really sad. And I think the case -- you know how I feel, Dr. Drew, from beginning the media has painted this as a White/Black thing even though George Zimmerman was Hispanic. And last -- I think it was last night Shahrazad said that President Obama was being controlled by the White man. So, she has a different story today to tell.
ALI: He is. He is.
ALI: And so are you. And so are you.
WRIGHT: Yes. OK.
PINSKY: Hang on, ladies.
WRIGHT: So, anyway, what I think.
PINSKY: I want to give Frank a chance. I get what you`re saying. I think we get it. Frank, open your heart a little bit and understand that Miss Ali has a world view that`s affected by the history of her heritage. Can you, Frank, open your heart at least to that? Without getting into --
PINSKY: -- and all the stuff you drift into
PINSKY: You can`t do it?
TAAFFE: No. I -- I just want to know, you know, Miss Ali, really? I mean, really? You know, the other day you said that we don`t want to live in your world, you don`t want to live in our world. Well, you know, when does that end? When the two worlds are the worlds always going to collide or are we ever going to come together? You know --
PINSKY: I know, Frank, but stop it there because whatever comes out of your mouth next is not going to contribute to that. Doesn`t want to live what, Miss Ali?
WRIGHT: Oh, come on. Dr. drew, that`s not true. That`s not true, Dr. Drew. And I don`t think it`s fair that you marginalize Frank Taaffe and you let her say outrageous things. I mean, come on. Let`s be fair.
TAAFFE: I just want to know one thing, Miss Ali.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Frank.
TAAFFE: You know, Miss Ali, I`ve lived in the south here for 43 years and still today when we reach out to other Blacks, they don`t want to have anything to do with us and vice versa and it`s going to continue on until President Obama, your president, decides to quit saying White people in his conversation to America about his Trayvon Martin rendition of how he was going to look 35 years ago. That is pure bull.
ALI: I was really surprised at him for saying that. That was more Black than he`s ever spoke out for his own kind. I really commend him for that. I was very surprised.
TAAFFE: Right on.
ALI: He acknowledged it --
TAAFFE: Right on.
PINSKY: All right. Hold on right there. We`ve got to stop where we are because the "Last Call" is next. Thank you, panel.
PINSKY: Jenny, thank you. And, of course, thank you all for watching. Good panels tonight. "HLN After Dark" begins right now.