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PIERS MORGAN LIVE
Royal Baby Named; Return of the Weinergate
Aired July 24, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNY DEUTSCH, GUEST HOST: OK. Tonight the return of Weinergate. It's the political scandal everyone is talking about. You've heard what Anthony Weiner did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK MAYORAL CANDIDATE: These things are in my past. These things are in my past and I think that -- I think that citizens understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: You heard what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEINER: It's been rough. These are things I brought upon myself and I thought they were going to come out towards the end of the campaign and some of them have, and so look, I'm pressing forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: OK. Now we want to know what you think. Should Anthony Weiner just get out of the race for mayor? Will --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
DEUTSCH: OK. We got the answer. (LAUGHTER)
Will New Yorkers forgive and forget this latest scandal and should Huma Abedin stand by her man? Crisis managing is something I've learned a lot about in my career as a brand and communications CEO. And tonight I put together a panel of experts to weigh in on the scandal and how to handle it, including Star Jones and top New York politician Scott Stringer, who is in race himself against former New York governor, Eliot Spitzer.
We want to hear from you. Tweet us @piersmorganlive.
But I want to start a little bit on a lighter note before we get to that with what you might call the rebranding of the royals. Tonight we learned the name of the newborn son of Prince William and Kate. He is HRH Prince George Alexander Louis of Cambridge.
But what's in a name? Joining me now to answer that, CNN royal commentator Victoria Arbiter.
Victoria, we saw on royals 2.0 yesterday, we saw them drive themselves away, very accessible with the crowd. We understand there is no nanny at home, just one housekeeper. Are we seeing something in the name that tells us this is new age of royals.
VICTORIA ARBITER, CNN ROYAL COMMENTATOR: We're really seeing William put a stamp on how he intends to move forward. These are traditional names, their family names, but they're not immediately all associated with familiar royals and so I think that way he's giving his child his own identity.
Yes, there have been six previous King Georges, the Queen's grandfather and her father, the patron saint of England of is George. Charles' middle name is George. There are lots of George references but it's when we get to Alexander, three kings of Scotland named Alexander and of course that's where William and Kate met. The Queen's middle name is Alexander. So a tribute to her.
Louis is the most poignant one really for William and his father Charles. Earl Mount Baton was Charles' most beloved grand uncle. He was assassinated by the IRA in 1979, which was devastating. And so to see Louis included, which is William's middle name, was just a personal touch for Charles.
DEUTSCH: Now I was surprised that William and Kate said no, we just liked the name George. It had nothing to do with the Queen's father. I found that hard to believe.
ARBITER: Yes. I know, yes. I think in a way George has become quite cool and trendy again. And so I think when they looked at the family tree, they don't buy a baby name book. They look at the family tree and say OK, well, we like that one, we like that one. Some of them are so old fashioned a poor child would be crucified in school for some of the names.
George is still cook and trendy and fun, but it's paying tribute.
DEUTSCH: Actually George is the 12th -- believe it or not, the 12th most popular name in Britain. One more reason to stay in the United States.
No. I -- is there anything that goes on where there are some type of informal protocol with the queen where ahead of time they kind of run names by her, or is she finding out about it like anybody else's?
ARBITER: The Queen went over to Kensington Palace this morning, primarily to meet her first great grandson, but I think William, he runs everything by her when it comes to the monarchy and how he does things and matters of state. And I -- he would have run the name by her. She's not a tyrant. She likes the family to make their own decisions. She'll say if she thinks you could have handled something better but she would have been touched if they run it by her first. DEUTSCH: Let me be skeptic for a second.
ARBITER: Go on then.
DEUTSCH: Because I'm a branding guy.
DEUTSCH: And it's very clear -- and not that it's not genuine or authentic.
DEUTSCH: But it's very, very clear that they want to be more of the royals of the people, but am I to believe right now that there is no nanny there? That Kate is getting up in the middle of the night? Is that -- seriously.
I mean, is that really possible? I may be -- I'm not saying great either way, but is that really happening?
ARBITER: Right now, certainly it is. They've got to have a nanny at some stage when they get a full royal life going again, but Kate is from a normal family. Her mother was waiting for her when she came home from school. They came to at least give it a go themselves. But having said that they have gone home to Kate's parents' house this weekend. So Grandma Middleton, I'm sure is helping out.
DEUTSCH: OK. Victoria, thanks a lot. Great stuff.
Now let's to the biggest political story around right now. Anthony Weiner's latest scandal. And joining me now to talk about it Lanny Davis, the author of "Crisis Tales: Five Rules for Coping with Crisis in Business, Politics and Life." He's also White House special counsel to President Clinton and he is the founder of Purple Nation Solutions, plus Star Jones, attorney and national spokesperson for the National Association of professional women.
And Scott Stringer, Manhattan Borough president and a candidate for New York City comptroller. He's running against another scandal tainted politician, New York governor -- former New York governor Eliot Spitzer.
Before we get to this great panel, I want to show a hands from our audience. Is there anybody that would vote for Anthony Weiner right now with what happened? Not one hand.
OK. No, raise your hand. No, I'm just curious. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course.
DEUTSCH: Was there anybody planning on voting for him three days ago? That's interesting. OK.
I want to -- I want to start with you, Scott. You're a part of the establishment of New York politics. You're running for comptroller against Eliot Spitzer. Is there any chance at this point Weiner gets elected?
SCOTT STRINGER, MANHATTAN BOROUGH PRESIDENT: I think it's problematic for both of these candidacies in part because while we have turned this election into a -- sort of a two-ring circus, the bottom line is when you go out and campaign and talk to voters, working people, middle class people, they want to know about affordable housing, they want to know about education opportunities for their kids.
They want to know where you stand on issues and they don't want to be involved in the personal drama of candidates.
DEUTSCH: Well, that's -- ironically, that's what Weiner is saying and to me that's the ultimate act of narcissism that he's saying it's not about me. He's saying actually -- he's using the talking points you're using but in reality it is about him.
Do you get kind of angry? You know, you're a serious politician. Spitzer is ahead of you in the polls. We know what he's been through.
STRINGER: For now.
DEUTSCH: For now. Good answer.
STRINGER: We're coming.
DEUTSCH: We're coming, but you've got to watch him on Jay Leno and Jimmy Fallon. Is -- this culture -- it seems that awareness at any cost beats less awareness. That's got to piss you off.
STRINGER: So I got to tell you something. Sure, does every kid want to go on Leno? OK. But the reality is, the reality is that what's happening is this can't become a comedy show. The issues in the city and the big disconnect here is going on Leno does not make you a candidate that people want to embrace because they want to know what your education plan is. What are you going to do for the city? How are you going to watch the pension --
DEUTSCH: I wish that was true but unfortunately the polls show awareness at any cost, equal votes, you've got six million viewers, and the name recognition. So that -- I wish that was true.
STRINGER: But you know what always happens? The person who has those liabilities start out ahead because of name recognition. At the end of the day, voters realize what's happening. They then vote for the candidate they believe will represent them. That candidate gets elected then the big story is it's a big upset. But I'm telling you, when I'm in the Bronx, Queens, Staten Island, when I'm moving around Brooklyn and Manhattan, people want trust, they want integrity, they want leadership, and it's not just about me. I would say that in the mayor's race, as well. We've got real problems and issues in the city.
DEUTSCH: When this comes up -- I worked on a political campaign, I worked on Clinton's campaign. If I was running your campaign and you are against Spitzer, I would be putting a lot of my effort into finding another prostitute and --
Not personally finding a prostitute.
That's it for tonight. We'll see you next time on PIERS MORGAN.
This is just politics --
STRINGER: I'm bring in one as a consultant and I'm --
DEUTSCH: The way I --
STRINGER: Yes, you're really on message. Thank you.
DEUTSCH: I will keep you -- this is -- I would keep you on message until the week before and I would bring forward that next woman. Would you have a problem with that?
STRINGER: You know how I'm going to win? And I really mean this. We're releasing policy position papers. Sounds boring, right? We're releasing policy position papers. We're bringing labor and people together to go out and knock on doors. We're having a discussion because here is the difference. Eliot's problem is he believes there's one set of rules for Eliot and another set of rules for the rest of us.
So when I released five years of taxes and say look, I want to be comptroller, this is the money he won't release his taxes. I participate in the campaign finance program so it's a level-playing field. I have to go out and get thousands of contributors. He won't go into the campaign finance program --
STRINGER: -- even though he said he would. So these are the issues voters in New York care about.
DEUTSCH: All right, Star. I'm going get you to you, Star and Lanny, in a second, but I want to bring in right now a man who knows all about how the story came to light. He broke it in his Web site thedirty.com and he is the founder, Nik Richie joins us now.
Nik, first of all, are you getting paid by Miss Leathers?
NIK RICHIE, FOUNDER, THE DIRTY: No, Donny, I'm not getting paid at all and I'm not even sure that's her real name.
DEUTSCH: OK. How does -- how does this work?
Let's hope not. How did this work? How did she get to you? What happened? Give me the process of how this comes about.
RICHIE: Well, Donny, I have a popular mainstream Web site. It's called thedirty.com and it's all user generated content. People from around the world submit stuff to the Web site. I call these people the dirty army. It's millions of people, it's gotten kind of like a cult following, and I've been doing this since 2008 with The Dirty.
And she came to me, she was a fan of the site, and she confided in me, and I told her to send me all the information, all the screen shots, because I personally didn't believe her at first. I really was duped by Anthony Weiner and thought he did change, and obviously, that wasn't the case.
And I just did my homework and kind of matched up the evidence that she provided and ran with the story.
DEUTSCH: We're going to show some pictures as we keep talking. And these have been online for awhile.
When you said she came to you, what was the first thing she said? What, did she call you up to say, I want to release? What was the reason she came to you?
RICHIE: No, she submitted a tip to the site. We have a submit post button where you can contact me and send me, similar to like a YouTube, like an upload of images.
RICHIE: And e-mail and tip. And I went through it and I actually asked for her phone number through e-mail and contacted her, and we spent the weekend just connecting the dots and I drilled her. I basically said, you know, you got to convince me if you're going to convince America, and she came forward and you know what, I believed her and I said you know, I'll put my neck on the line and put this on thedirty.com and the rest is history.
DEUTSCH: One of her friends recently said that it started out, she reached out basically and said, look, I'm a fan of yours, I love your politics and that Weiner himself very quickly turned it to kind of the sexual back and forth. Was that true?
RICHIE: Well, what happened was that she actually e-mailed Weiner in 2011 and it wasn't a nice e-mail. She pretty much bashed him for the whole original sex scandal, and Weiner never responded, and he must have been feeling creepy one day in 2012 and looked at his Facebook e-mail and saw that she sent this scathing e-mail and he poked her on Facebook, and --
She poked back, and, you know, the Weiner decided he wanted to be --
DEUTSCH: OK. Let's --
RICHIE: And it got crazy.
DEUTSCH: He -- is -- do you feel in your job and obviously, do you pause and say, obviously, he's a public official, he's got to stand behind what he did. But do you at any point say hey, this is going to change lives, change elections? What's kind of the process you go through in your head, your own, because there is no filter? The problem -- not the problem but the reality of the Web today is that there is no regulation in so many places, and so much goes out there.
So what are -- just as a member of the 300 million people of this country say to yourself before you put something like this out ?
RICHIE: Well, Donny, to me, I look at the Internet and I say, you know, privacy is gone. There is no such thing. To give people their voice is my goal. You know, you don't find platforms that give civilians and make them their own paparazzi where they can voice their own freedom of speech and have a large platform to get out to an audience, millions of people.
And that's what I try to provide for these people . Because if you look at social networks, if you're not a celebrity, you really don't have a huge base. And with The Dirty, I want to provide that platform and it's First Amendment right.
RICHIE: You know, I want to get that out and that's what I try to do.
DEUTSCH: Nik, I really appreciate your time.
I want to turn it over to Lanny and Star. First, I want to just go over what Anthony Weiner spoke earlier tonight. And during this speech was interesting. Supposedly a lot of women actually turned their backs as he was speaking. Let's go to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEINER: Sector. And you have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of outstanding requests for work and that floor was supposed to be replaced eight years ago, that wall was supported to be replaced four years ago, I hate to say it, you'd be in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: You and I have talked about a lot of things, a lot of scandals, and I have often said there's what we call the scandal continuum where you have basic adultery. There seems to be a lasciviousness to this. Creepy factor to this.
STAR JONES, ATTORNEY: Right.
DEUTSCH: That I don't think he can come back from. Any chance?
JONES: I don't see him coming back from it, and Donny, you know, a lot of people -- we've been talking about whether or not he can win. I would like to ask the question on whether or not he can pass the Homeland Security test.
I'm not sure that he could actually pass a security test on being the mayor of New York City.
DEUTSCH: Before we go to break, I want to get Lanny really fast before we go to break. And you worked with the Clintons' playbook. Anything to do now to save this guy? He comes in your office, what do we do now?
LANNY DAVIS, AUTHOR, "CRISIS TALES": First of all, my disclosure is that I know Huma Abedin very well. She's almost like a daughter to me. So although there's some mirth and laughter and I understand all the reasons why people are reacting that way, there is also a lot of pain and a lot of tragedy going on here.
So partly, what I would advice Mr. Weiner is if he believes that she should be mayor of New York, he knows that this is going to be very, very difficult for him and for Huma, and apart from all the pain that he's going through with her, it was his choice to run for mayor, so he can't complain.
But I do feel that what Huma did yesterday and very, very profoundly and with a lot of feeling describing what she's gone through to decide to stay with him and try to rebuild their marriage and their son in a family, was very moving to me.
DEUTSCH: Lanny, I actually disagree with you and I have spoken to a lot of women who have, is that however people chuckle, whatever they do, she has chosen that she wants to be married to the mayor of New York and made a very deliberate decision, and it's fair game at this point.
So obviously nobody wants to see a family go through anything, but there was a -- it felt to me, an opportunism with her and her stand that was not just standing by your man. That's just what I felt.
DAVIS: Well, Donnie, in all fairness, I specifically said I don't blame people for their reaction, including the laughter, I think it's very understandable. I just wanted to remind people that these two are going through a lot of pain, if you didn't find yourself moved by Huma's authenticity and feelings, you're certainly entitled. I take it from a different direction.
DEUTSCH: All right, Lanny, I want you to stay with us.
When we come back, also stay with us, his wife is standing by her man, but can this marriage or career be saved? More about Huma when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON: You know, I'm not sitting here as some little woman standing by my man. I'm sitting here because I love him and I respect him, and I honor what he's been through and what we've been through together.
HUMA ABEDIN, ANTHONY WEINER'S WIFE: I love him, I have forgiven him, I believe in him, and as we have said from the beginning, we are moving forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: I'm Donnie Deutsch in for Piers Morgan. And that of course is Hillary Clinton and Huma Abedin, both standing by their man, but not everybody thinks that's a good idea. Joining me now to talk about it, Marc Lamont Hill, professor at Columbia University and host of "Huff Post Live," also Ben Smith, editor-in-chief of Buzzfeed and back with us is Lanny Davis and Star Jones.
Star, I want to start with you. As a woman when you're watching Huma, was that feminism at the high point or low point?
STAR JONES, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PROFESSIONAL WOMEN: Actually it was feminism period. One of the best parts about the feminist movement is we give women the opportunity to choose what works for them. What works for Huma and her marriage works for her. I respect her choice. I respect her decision. I may not agree with her for me and my life, but I do respect it. I represent women that would do the continuum of things. I represent women that chop it off quite frankly.
DEUTSCH: You get -- Ben, you get the feeling that it's both. I felt this way with Hillary in '92 and I felt this way watching that they both want to chop it off, but they want -- but they want their place at the table, and they are business partners, and they are going to do what it takes. Is that your take?
BEN SMITH, EDITOR-IN-CHIF, BUZZFEED: There is no way Anthony Weiner would be in this race if Huma hadn't sign on at the beginning. At some degree driving it making fundraising and doing private stuff and she's a private person. It's not totally clear to me that she knew -- all -- that she knew he was doing this until when last fall, last winter, last spring, it's not clear when he stopped.
JONES: Last night.
DEUTSCH: Lanny, I want to ask you, you said you're very close to Huma and Hillary called her a family member. If that was your daughter out there, how would you be feeling and what would you be saying to her because my daughter won't be out there.
DAVIS: Well, I'm a father with a daughter, and you may have the ability to tell your daughter who is in love and has deep emotions what she should or shouldn't do, I don't think I have that ability --
DEUTSCH: I stand corrected.
DAVIS: Nor would I exercise that ability because Star has the exact word that occurs to me that I heard many women say about this type of situation, which is don't judge my relationship and my choices. I'm allowed to make choices that are right for me. If you doubt my sincerity, you're entitled. What Huma Abedin did, I know was authentic and deeply felt. Star is absolutely right, if this is her choice, other women will make other choices and they might be angry with her for her choice. But they should at least allow her the deep feeling that is behind her.
DEUTSCH: Marc, obviously, any woman could -- you're not buying it?
MARC LAMONT HILL, HOST, "HUFFPOST LIVE": I just don't buy it. I respect her choice, too. If someone says, look, I know all the cards are on the table and I'm making a different decision than you might make. I have to respect that. Feminism as Star said is all about making the choice. My spidey sense this is all to use a technical term, is a political charade. When you look over the text, when I get over that together it sounds not real. She's in it for the ride this is about political careers and not about love or marriage.
DEUTSCH: Star -- there was -- there was a press conference yesterday. They asked we knew this was going on a year after this, how do voters, how does a -- how do women, we all can accept a mistake, how do people look past what is clearly not just a mistake, but a sense of narcissism, absurd judgment, possible addiction, we'll get to that in the next segment. How does anybody look past this?
JONES: At this point, what we're dealing with is sort of the personal because it's a sexual issue and the professional. The professional we all have the right to judge Anthony Weiner. We're citizens here in New York City and we are electing a mayor. So we have a right to say you show a lack of judgment and respect for your family and for the institution of marriage. This is not someone I want to represent the city of New York. I am not going to allow you to stand up on a podium and look my kid in the face and be the representative for my kid. We have a right to feel that way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying Huma, this is your choice, but I don't want your man as my mayor.
DEUTSCH: I want to go back to Lanny. Lanny, before you go, if I'm a betting man, I say there's a 99 percent chance that Hillary is running for office. If I'm advising Hillary and we know the way she feels about Huma, how can she keep herself attached to Huma? If she's in the line next to Hillary, this will not go away and Hillary has a history of when there is a deficit she walks away?
DAVIS: Look, I love Hillary Clinton as one of my best friends and this obviously is a painful experience for her, because I know she loves Huma Abedin as those of us who know Huma do. Whatever else is being said tonight and to your viewing audience and people who are reacting to what they are hearing, I can tell you that this is genuine. The gentleman that doubted Huma's sincerity, I can respectfully tell you I disagree and what Hillary Clinton is feeling tonight and what every human being who knows Huma Abedin, I don't know the congressman well, is feeling is deep empathy and pain for what she's going through.
DEUTSCH: All right, Lanny, really appreciate your time. When we come back, I want to know why you think powerful men do this kind of thing and why women don't.
BILL CLINTON: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story is false. It's ridiculous. I've been in love with the same woman for 30 plus years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have never sexually harassed anyone.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": You didn't send that photo to that woman in Washington State?
ANTHONY WEINER: I did not send it to that woman in Washington State.
BLITZER: But you're not 100 percent sure whether the photo is actually you?
WEINER: I'll say we're doing everything we can to answer that question, but we're doing an investigation.
DEUTSCH: I'm Donny Deutsch guest host in for Piers Morgan and we'll talk about Anthony Weiner, his latest scandals and what it says about why men cheat. Joining me now Gloria Allred and also back Ben Smith, Marc Lamont Hill and Star Jones.
Before we get back to our panel, a psychiatrist wrote that there are five reasons powerful men cheat and I want after each -- I'm read each to the audience, applaud if you agree, one, because they can. Two this is interesting, I only want the women to respond, power is a great aphrodisiac for many women. Thank you. Powerful men posses the charm and charisma beyond that of the average man. They feel entitled.
And they may have a stronger sex drive than the average. OK, on that note, I want to bring my good friend Gloria Allred.
Gloria, you are representing a woman who claims to be sexually harassed by the mayor of San Diego. You have a lot of experience in this.
I spoke a lot during the Tiger Woods issue. And -- and I think one of the main reasons beyond the obvious humorous and sensitive entitlement, which is number one, is that in the case of a Tiger Woods, he walks into a restaurant and 20 women hand him their cards, basically come be with me.
Politicians is not quite as overt like that. And we're seeing predatory behavior here versus the other side. But isn't a lot of it just the opportunity?
GLORIA ALLRED, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, I -- I think that for a lot of men who are either celebrities because they are in the entertainment business or sports world or because they are well-known elected officials or politicians or hope to be politicians, that they cheat frankly often because they don't believe that there will be consequences that will be serious, that they have the opportunity to do it and because frankly, they have not had to suffer serious consequences in the past. But now, women are breaking their silence.
They're coming forward like my client, Irene McCormick Jackson (ph) who is very courageous. And she is breaking the silence. She has now opened the floodgates by her example by being willing to be publicly identified -- the first woman to be publicly identified involving -- in reference to Mayor Bob Filner of San Diego.
We filed a lawsuit. And now, two other women have come forward. So we don't know where that's going to end. But we do commend her courage because she's broken the silence.
DEUTSCH: : Star, you know a lot of very powerful men socially for years and years and years. You've interviewed them. We continue to be astounded when, oh my god, this guy did that.
You're of course a lawyer. You're not a psychologist. Is there any thread that you've seen in men over the years -- powerful men, beyond kind the obvious sense of entitlement that causes this behavior?
JONES: This is a little bit of a master of the universe mentality. You know, when you -- you say that an athlete, a celebrity, a rock star gets to walk into a room and women throw their cards at them, they throw other things at them also, politicians don't get that.
Businessmen may not get that. But their power is in their pocketbook. And you know, you and I have -- have crossed swords many times, as I will say to you. You know, when you are a wealthy, powerful white man in the United States of America and you can pull out that black card, that is very powerful to a lot of women. And some women don't have the same core values as other women that integrity kicks in.
DEUTSCH: It's new.
HILL: It is new, by the way. Look at a guy like Anthony Weiner, right? It's safe to say that women weren't throwing themselves at him in high school or college or any other point. He's in (ph) business (ph).
DEUTSCH: : I'll tell you another -- a very kind of sad thing came out of this and that you -- these women come forward. And Monica Lewinsky a few years ago actually reached out to me and she was looking for a job.
And I was like, is this really Monica Lewinsky? And I actually of course was curious of meeting her. And she was such a bright, charming, damaged -- this is a girl that probably 99 percent of 22- year-olds in her position would have done the same thing.
We know that President Clinton has moved on and is -- is more rarefied than ever. And she can't get a job.
And Gloria, the issue sometimes -- the unfortunate issue for these women that come forward, they get 15 minutes. They come forward.
And then the parade leaves. And their lives are ruined ironically and not the men's.
ALLRED: Well, I agree with that. I also represent one of the women who came forward in the Anthony Weiner sexting scandal.
And that is being -- we urged him to resign. He did resign. And then of course, he thought he was getting help. And now, we see that apparently, that help was not effective.
But she didn't come looking for her 15 minutes of fame, I want to point out. Her name was revealed, not because she revealed it. Others in the press found out.
And then essentially, they stamped to her. And she had no privacy...
DEUTSCH: : She was an adult so I'm sorry of (ph) all the press in New York City's --
ALLRED: ...and she's trying to go back to her life. And she never sent text -- sexting to him. He sent sexting messages to her. So let's not blame the women. He's the one who should absolutely have to take responsibility for what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then it gets complicated. You're not required to send your intimate -- private communications to people -- to the dirty.com option.
DEUTSCH: : Sure. No, I'm not buying -- it's like I'm not blaming the women. I'm saying that even when women are true victims, whether they're exploiting (ph) or not, they end up more damaged.
OK, stay right here, everybody. When we come back, let's talk about sex. I want to know if you think sex is different (ph)...
DEUTCH: I'm Donnie Deutsch sitting in for Piers Morgan. Back with me, Gloria Allred, Ben Smith, Marc Lamont Hill and Star Jones. Also now joining us, sex therapist, Chris Donaghue. Let me start with the sex therapist.
Chris, a lot of men would say baloney. You know, it's a -- it's a convenient cover-up when a guy gets in trouble because he can't control himself and that mellow men, in one form or another in sex -- are addicted to sex. So set me straight.
Give me the clinical diagnosis here.
DONAGHUE: Well, we're definitely looking at someone who has an issue with sexual compulsivity. He's repeatedly returning to a behavior that's consistently creating negative consequences in his life.
But does he have an inability to stop doing it? I'm not really sold on that. So that's why we're not necessarily going to call it a sex addiction.
DEUTSCH: Well, not -- forget -- forget Anthony Weiner for a second. I think the New Yorkers are going to forget Anthony Weiner. I'm just saying...
...in general -- in general, I'm not necessarily a believer in sex addiction. I think it's something that celebrities have created to kind of cover up mistakes of the past.
And I'm not -- explain what that means because most men I know want as much sex as they can get.
DONAGHUE: Well, and I'm going to agree with you.
DEUTSCH: So I'm not being glib. I mean, so what is sex addiction? DONAGHUE: No, I'm going to agree with you. You know, monogamy, marriage -- these are really difficult institutions for us. And with the 21st century and all the technology and having sex is readily available, there's going to be even more struggles with people maintaining boundaries around their sexuality, would definitely overdiagnosing people as sex addicts, what -- we were struggling with.
HILL: That's the key -- overdiagnosis. But there is a legitimate...
HILL: ...diagnosis of sex addiction. If you're in a restaurant and you can't get a hold and you're in a bathroom, that's a sex addiction. If you're compromising your job...
HILL: ...no, that's what I'm saying. And -- and...
HILL: ...the problem is now, it becomes, as you said, a kind of -- a cop out for anybody who gets caught in a scandal. They just have...
DEUTSCH: It is a new (inaudible). It's interesting. There is a new definition there, new degrees of sexual scandals with technology now. We have the virtual thing that we saw or going on with -- we knew which was obviously vulgar.
But it was not physical contact -- all the way up to the physical contact. And then there's new digital generation -- are they going to look at this a lot with a lot kinder eyes than we would because they're growing up in the digital world and there's a lot more cavalierness to what happens in that virtual world?
SMITH: I don't think people in their 20s are going to be like -- just think that anything that takes place on the internet is weird certainly. And in fact, there's a lot that's very traditional that gets (ph) in the way, that like a lot of politicians are in the business because they want affection and love and attention and like that -- like Bill Clinton, like, you know, a lot of figures, like that translates into all parts of their lives.
And so I mean, in some ways, this is like a very traditional scandal happening on a new medium.
DONAGHUE: But that's the problem. I -- I think we're still looking at this in too traditional of a sense where the definitions of what really defines cheating and monogamy are starting to expand. And for some people, this kind of behavior -- sexting and flirting is actually acceptable in some marriages and relationships.
DEUTSCH: I just want to -- I just want to bring...
JONES: Yes, but...
DEUTSCH: ...I just want to bring Gloria -- guys, guys, I just want to bring Gloria in for a second.
Gloria, you're dealing with an issue as far as the mayor of San Diego being accused of sexual harassment. We've seen so many men come back from various scandals.
Are we at a point -- is the country desensitized that unless it's an underage situation, rape, that pretty much now, the American public is like infidelity, ah, sexting, ah. I'm not saying I feel that way.
But we -- we see the way the world plays out, there seems to be this -- a bit more like we've seen it all before.
ALLRED: Well, I think there's a sense of forgiveness if, in fact, people say they will get help, if they will acknowledge and take responsibility for what they have done and if in fact, they do get help. However, I think there's a whole lot of focus on the men and not enough impact on the women that they're hurting.
In the case of the Mayor of San Diego, we filed a lawsuit alleging sexual harassment. And that hurt my client, Irene, to have the mayor say, as I Irene said at our press conference on Monday, to her, that she should come into work without her panties on, that he wants to see her naked, that he wants to consummate a relationship with her, that he loves her, that he wants to marry her. He puts her in a head lock.
He wants to -- he tries to kiss her. This is not acceptable.
DEUTSCH: There's nothing funny about that. There's nothing funny -- well, I -- I think you bring up the point that there's a continuum where I think right now, adultery -- people go, it's not right. But you can move on -- something like that, obviously very different.
We're going to be right back, guys. Don't go anywhere.
DEUTSCH: All right, we're back. Before we -- before we leave Anthony Weiner, a very quick answer from both you, guys.
Star, Weiner have any chance?
JONES: Arrogance will keep him in. But the good residents of New Yorkers will not get him elected.
DEUTSCH: Well, I think it's possible. I think it's done. I -- I think People can forgive but there's a hubris at this point and a dishonesty that I think people rebel against.
If I was advising, I would tell them to drop out. But I want to turn to another story. In (inaudible), Trayvon Martin's father was on Capitol Hill today, had a meeting on the issues facing men and boys. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRACY MARTIN, FATHER: I always say that Trayvon was my hero. He saved my life, and not to be there in his time of need, that it's real troublesome not to be able to save my son's life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: Trayvon Martin's death has sparked, of course, a heated debate across America, from the White House to Main Street. Joining me now, Martin family attorney, Ben Crump.
Ben, I want to ask this question to you. And then I -- I want Star and Marc to join, obviously, three African-Americans, white guy -- no, and nothing funny about that.
I have three daughters. And if they came home to me and said they had fallen in love with an African-American man, I would say, does he love you. Is he a good man?
Probably say, it's a little bit of a harder choice but I would be happy for them. On the flip side, if I was walking down the street and about to go into my house and I saw a 17-year-old black kid in a hoodie, I would pause.
I would -- I'm just being honest -- I would pause before I would go in. I would -- it's not because I -- I -- it's just because what I'm -- I'm used to would be out of context for me. Am I racist?
I want -- and I'm being honest. And I think 90 percent of white people would say what I'm saying.
CRUMP: Well, Donnie, I think the question is whether you acted on that. I do think that the president has started the conversation saying, we have to talk about these things.
We have to talk about profiling. It's one thing to think a certain way. We all have prejudices. But do you act on those? And that's the problem.
I think when we take about Trayvon Martin, and many, many people believe that his killer profiled him and followed him. And if he would have profiled him, called the police, he had every right to do that.
But once you acted on it and you confront a person, that is the issue we are facing. The issue has been framed. Can you profile and follow our children while they walk home and not do anything illegal?
CRUMP: And that's the issue.
DEUTSCH: Star, you and I are friends. We've -- we've talked a lot about race on this show.
DEUTSCH: And -- and we have talked so openly about it. It's not -- I want to go back to the point I made. It's because it's out of context for me.
I'm not used to seeing a young black man, because we are in still so many ways a segregated society, although we like to think we fully agree. So we've got to start talking openly about that.
And there's nobody more inclusive to me and I am just -- we've got to figure out what we do about that.
JONES: You would -- you would not be -- be showing racism by just thinking it. But you would be showing is implicit bias. And this is what this conversation has generated.
Implicit bias is that when, because of what you've been programmed to think...
JONES: ...when you see a young African-American man in a hoodie or in some jeans, you immediately start to think this silly statistic that there are more black men in jail than there are in college when that's absolutely not true. There are 400,000 more black men in college than there are in all the jails.
DEUTSCH: But you know, what's interesting...
JONES: Listen -- but what I'm saying to you is, those kinds of things have been programmed into our head. You see far more African- American men portrayed as criminals on television when why aren't they portrayed as teachers?
There are a hundred and 20,000 black teachers.
DEUTSCH: I'm mean, by the way, I'm talking -- when you -- wait, wait, when you were doing an ad and you were ever showing criminals in an ad, you'd never, ever show a black person because the outrage, even if you say for one out of five people buy our product, you know, I'm talking about someone (ph) robbing the store, doing something -- it's actually the opposite sometimes -- a lot of media (inaudible).
HILL: Right, but that's because...
DEUTSCH: And that's...
DEUTSCH: ...that's a form of racism also.
HILL: Right, also because TV is supposed to be seen as a form of escape. It's supposed to be a departure from reality. So the -- the robbers on TV can be white, because in our minds they've constructed (ph), in real life, they're black.
DEUTSCH: No, because the advertisers are worried -- I'm not saying this is right -- they show a black man in an ad, we're stereotyping. We're perpetuating that. So it's this horrible cycle world (ph).
HILL: Yes, but -- but there's a bigger -- there's a bigger charge (ph). And -- and I would actually push back and say, I don't think you're a racist.
However, I think that assumption would be racist. If you see a black kid in...
DEUTSCH: It would be. That's -- I guess I'm being honest about that. And I'm not and you're starting to...
JONES: I know.
DEUTSCH: ...but like what do we -- how do we get past it (ph)?
HILL: They -- they come to terms with the fact that the assumption is racist. So many white folk and black folk -- because plenty of black folk with (ph) a black (ph) personality have the same kind of pause when they -- when they see that. So...
DEUTSCH: Well, wait, if I see a white -- if I see a white skinned guy with a white bald head and a hoodie, I'm pausing also this really -- I'm reacting a certain way, that's there's infinitely -- Ben, jump in here...
HILL: But they're -- but they're... DEUTSCH: ...there's more of a chance. It's just -- it's...
HILL: But there isn't more of a chance. It isn't more of a chance.
DEUTSCH: Now (ph), visual -- I said...
HILL: Oh, visually...
DEUTSCH: ...yes, you think (ph) that.
HILL: ...we have to -- we have to reconcile the disconnect which we visually feel was rational, I think Columbia (ph) University -- all my kids walk through the -- the campus with hoodies on when (ph)...
HILL: ...wearing shorts and hoodies. And they're robbing nobody.
JONES: Right. And you and I both live on the Upper East side. My nephew is 17. He wears a hoodie. He's up playing basketball right now.
DEUTSCH: It's different (ph) when you see it (ph) out of context...
JONES: ...yes, but -- but he wouldn't be out of context.
JONES: I'm your girl.
JONES: My nephew lives with me. So if he comes over and he walks by your house to bring something down to you, you should be thinking, oh, that could be Star's nephew right there...
HILL: ...instead of thinking that could be a criminal. That's the point.
JONES: You have to be -- you have to take it (ph) my point (ph).
HILL: That's it.
DEUTSCH: Go ahead, Ben.
CRUMP: I guess I have to say this. I -- I think we tried to use the hoodies as this metaphor. But 35 years ago, they were not hoodies. And they were still profiling African-American men.
JONES: Thank you.
CRUMP: So you know, we have to be real about it.
DEUTSCH: I -- I would love what -- what you, guys, think about this. I am -- I'm hopeful. We're still -- we have to think about it. We are -- we've come a long way.
We have so long to go. What gives me hope is when I talk to kids. My nine-year-old daughter doesn't see a black person. She sees a person.
And am I being naive to think that we're a generation away, but that this next generation is approaching things very differently? Is that the white guy naivete?
But that's what I am starting to see with young kids...
HILL: I -- I think you're right. I think each generation deals with this race thing differently because we're able to reimagine what race looks like. But there are these structural issues that don't go away, even with well-intentioned white people.
We still got (inaudible). We still don't live as long. We still have different outcomes in education, housing, health care, mass incarceration, I think going down with anything good.
We're at the bottom. Anything bad, we're at the top of it. And that doesn't fit (ph). That doesn't get changed if your grandchildren and my grandchildren feel differently about a particular black person.
DEUTSCH: Ben, before we go, how are Trayvon's parents doing? There is -- about -- there's (ph) only thing in life you don't recover from is losing a child. It's a straw (ph) that doesn't go away. How are they doing?
CRUMP: Well, they're trying to take something painful and negative and turn it into a positive. Sybrina Fulton says something that really inspired me after the verdict.
After, she went to church and (ph) saying, that she said, we will not let this verdict define Trayvon Martin. We will define the legacy of Trayvon Martin.
DEUTSCH: Star, last word?
JONES: I just think that diversity around the table is what's going to move the conversation from talking to action. If you start to put people around the table who actually can bring different experiences to bear so that you can stand in the spot where I am, and you can feel what I feel because you know me in an intimate way, I think that conversation will then move to action.
And then action becomes very powerful. We, as a community of people, can make this change.
DEUTSCH: We need honesty. That's what we need. I want to thank everybody.
Star, Marc, Ben, thank you so much. We'll be right back.
DEUTSCH: That is it for tonight. I want to thank Pier for the chance to sit. And I want to thank this fantastic studio audience. You, guys, were great.
Tomorrow, the bad boy of the world, Anthony Bourdain guest hosts. He's the man who actually ate still (ph) big heart of a cobra. But tomorrow, he faces his greatest challenge yet.
Will he eat a cronut (ph)? It's a donut. You'll find out tomorrow when Anthony Bourdain hosts with his special guests, Mario Batali and Eric Ripert.
That is it for tonight. Anderson Cooper starts right now.