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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Another Zimmerman Juror Speaks; At Least 78 Died in Train Crash in Spain; Ariel Castro Pleads Guilty To 937 Counts; A Life Lost Too Soon; Oakland Shooting Revisited
Aired July 26, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks.
Trayvon Martin's mother bares her soul. And a Zimmerman juror speaks from the heart about the guilt she feels over the verdict. Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump reacts here tonight.
Also, an American passenger talks about what it was like aboard a train out of control and off the rails.
Plus, for the very first time you will hear the voice of a monster. What Ariel Castro who held three women captive for years had to say for himself and the plea deal that spared him a death sentence.
But we begin with a striking admission from Zimmerman Juror B-29 and a tearful plea from Trayvon Martin's mother not to let her son's death be in vain. The juror, B-29, known only as Maddy saying she herself feels like she killed the Florida teenager. No reaction to that from Sybrina Fulton, his mom. But a reminder today of what she and Trayvon's father are living with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTI'S MOTHER: I just ask you as a mother, as a grandmother, as an aunt, an uncle, a grandfather to wrap your mind around what has happened because I speak to you as Trayvon's mother. I speak to you as a parent in the absolutely worst telephone call you can receive as a parent is to know that your son, your son you will never kiss again.
I'm just asking you to wrap your mind around that. Wrap your mind around no prom for Trayvon. No high school graduation for Trayvon. No college for Trayvon. No grandkids coming from Trayvon. All because of a law, a law that has prevented the person that shot and killed my son to be held accountable and to pay for this awful crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Sybrina Fulton is talking about Florida's Stand Your Ground law, speaking today at the Urban Leagues National convention in Philadelphia. She called for an end to it and others like it around the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FULTON: My message to you is please use my story. Please use my tragedy. Please use my broken heart to say to yourself, we cannot let this happen to anybody else's child.
FULTON: At times, I feel like I'm a broken vessel. At times I don't know if I'm going or coming. But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is using me and God is using my family to make a change, to make a difference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: In the meantime, we heard more today from b-29. She was the one that went into the jury room wanting to convict of the highest charge, second-degree murder and came out having voted to acquit on all charges. As you will hear shortly, she seemed to think the jury instructions and the law itself boxed her in. Talking with ABC News' Robin Roberts, she talked about the now famous 911 call.
You will remember in her exclusive interview with Anderson B-27 said she thought it was George Zimmerman screaming for help. B-29 wasn't quite so clear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN ROBERTS, ANCHOR, GOOD MORNING AMERICA: Whose voice did you think it was on the 911 call?
MADDY, JUROR B-29, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: I never really, really paid mind to whose voice it was, because the evidence shows that people's voices change when you're in extreme motion.
ROBERTS: When you-all sent that note to the judge asking for an explanation on manslaughter, what was that about?
MADDY: What we were trying to figure out was manslaughter in order to be charged, we had to prove that when he left home, he said I'm going to go kill Trayvon Martin. I literally fell down on my knees and I broke down. My husband was holding me and I was screaming and crying and I kept saying to myself I feel that I killed him. And I feel maybe if they would put the law and a lot of people would read it, they would understand the choices they gave us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Juror B-29 obviously torn by the choice he made, which she believes is the only choice she had to vote for acquittal, but was it?
Let's ask the legal panel, Martin family attorney, Benjamin Crump, criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos, jury consultant Carolyn Robbins Manley, also legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Sunny Hostin and Jeffrey Toobin.
Sunny, this juror, unlike Juror B-37, was very emotional. You were there. You observed her in the courtroom every single day, and apparently, you were pretty surprised as she was the holdout juror. Why was that?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I wasn't surprised necessarily she was the holdout juror, I was surprised that she basically, Wolf, said that her understanding of the law was that she had to determine that George Zimmerman, when he left his home, intended to kill Trayvon Martin. That was shocking to me because all along during the state's case, she seemed to be listening so intently. She seemed to understand the arguments so well, and she in particular when listening to the jury instructions was so attentive. So, I was very surprised that she seemed to have just a misunderstanding of the law. That really surprised me.
BLITZER: Yes. I'm sure it surprised a lot of people.
Carolyn, you are a jury consultant. Let me play a little bit of sound for you from this Juror 29 talking about those specific jury instructions. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADDY: For myself, he's guilty because the evidence shows he's guilty.
ROBERTS: He's guilty of?
MADDY: Killing Trayvon Martin. But as the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't find -- you can't say he's guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So Carolyn, you have a lot of experience, obviously, with jury instructions and jurors. Are you surprised that she appears to be, well, if you believe what Sunny says, a little confused about what the law is?
CAROLYN ROBBINS MANLEY, JURY CONSULTANT: You know, I'm not surprised at all. What we do is we give them jury instructions. The judge reads it, which is not the best way for anybody to comprehend something that's full of legal jargon, a double speak, compound sentences, double negatives and then we tell them to go off and do a good job. It's like reading your tax form. You try and understand it, but you're not necessarily equipped to do it in the manner we give jurors -- the way we deliver it. And when the prosecution doesn't explain, and I even blew it up. The wording is it's not necessary for the state to prove that George Zimmerman had an intent to cause death.
So what she need, this juror need to be armed with or supplied with this instruction. But again, just because we read it and just because we give them a set, doesn't mean they understand. They often don't. BLITZER: Because there were verbal instructions from the judge, but also, the 27-page document that apparently they all had that they could study inside that jury room.
Mark, you know, is this the fault of prosecution for the confusion, shall we say, that the jury would go away not completely understanding of the role of intent in a possible verdict?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, the jury, frankly, reached the right verdict based on what they were presented with. The fault here lies with the prosecution because the prosecution did not do their job. The prosecution failed miserably in this case for a number of reasons.
Number one, they did not explain the jury instructions, instead, they decided to act like first year public defenders and get very (INAUDIBLE) in engaging a lot of drama and think that was going to bring home a verdict for them, which was just none sense. Anybody who has been in a courtroom and tried cases will tell you what jurors want -- first of all, during jury selection the case is over. Then you arm the jurors with the jurors that you at least think will be with you. You arm them with the arguments and the law in your closing so that when they go back into that jury room, they are going to be able to convince the others of what your position is. That's what the defense did. That's why what the defense did was so masterful. That's why this prosecution, frankly, was abysmal.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Wolf, Mark was half right, which is better than his average. But the prosecution did make a mistake here in its closing argument.
GERAGOS: Just remember, Jeff, you were 100 percent wrong all the way during this trial. So I'll give you --
TOOBIN: That's not true, anyway.
GERAGOS: That's true, you were better than Sunny was.
HOSTIN: Thanks. Thanks, Mark.
TOOBIN: The prosecution did make a big mistake in closing about not addressing the jury instructions in a more direct way. However, the fact is the evidence matters, and there was not a lot of evidence here where the prosecution could point to saying that George Zimmerman committed this crime.
BLITZER: I want to bring Ben Crump into this conversation, and Benjamin, you spoke about how frustrating it's been to hear from two jurors now, who have both said basically they were confused by the jury instructions. Let me play a little bit more from the juror on that. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADDY: I was the juror that was going to give them the hung jury. I was. I fought until the end. ROBERTS: Do you have regrets that you didn't?
MADDY: Kind of. I mean, I'm the only minority and I felt like I let a lot of people down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. What's your reaction to that Benjamin?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: We can't do anything, unfortunately, now to Sybrina and Tracy's terrible disappointment and hold the killer of their unarmed son accountable, but we can do is try to change the Stand Your Ground laws so nobody else will reach the verdict in these matters.
I respectfully disagree. I do think there was evidence there to hold George Zimmerman accountable. It was very clear when you looked at the evidence and you took away any of the rhetoric from the prosecutor or defense and you just look at Trayvon Martin was running away from him and then minutes later he has a bullet in his heart. That's why people are so troubled by this finding because it set a precedence that you can but the pursuer, you can be aggressor and then say you stood your ground. It was self-defense. It makes no sense to us.
And if you try to divorce yourself of passion, but the prosecutor said it right, you reverse the roles, nobody is going to stay -- this is where I agree with Mark. It was jury selection that the case was won or lost, unfortunately, because nobody took the perspective of Trayvon Martin that he was fighting for his life, that he went to his grave not knowing who was this strange, creepy man following him.
BLITZER: The jurors near the end of the deliberations, they did ask for some clarification on manslaughter and the judge basically said just read the document again. If you want clarification, you got to ask specific questions. The jurors apparently never came back with a specific question and as a result may have been confused.
Jeffrey, go ahead.
TOOBIN: Well, you know, this under lines a real problem with the legal system, which is that jury instructions as a rule are often incomprehensible to ordinary people. I mean, you read these words, the reasonable, intention, you know, double triple negatives in the same sentence. It's very hard to understand. But appeals courts are very sensitive to mistakes in jury instructions. That's why they are so piled in legalese.
So what the trial judge did, what happens often. The trial judge didn't want to try to explain the instructions in a way that might be become an error, so she just said read them again. I am very sympathetic to Maddy for not understanding them. Unfortunately, she really didn't understand them because she seems to be wrong about a lot of the things on the jury instructions but unfortunately, this happens often.
BLITZER: Jeff, hold that thought. Everyone stay there. I want to pick up the conversation right after a short break.
Also coming up, why authorities detained the man at the controls of this train as it left the tracks. What it was like for one of the passengers on board?
BLITZER: We're talking tonight about Zimmerman Juror B-29 second thoughts about casting a not guilty vote, letting George Zimmerman get away with, what she says murder. She says the law left her no choice. She told ABC News' Robin Roberts she wants Trayvon Martin's parents to know she's sorry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: What would you like to say to Trayvon Martin's parents?
MADDY: I would like to apologize because I feel like I let them down. I didn't know how much importance I was into this case because I never looked at color, and I still don't look at color.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Back with our panel now. Benjamin Crump, Mark Geragos, Carolyn Robbins Manley, Sunny Hostin and Jeffrey Toobin.
The jurors apparently, they were divided completely going in after hearing all of the trial. They went in and three of them thought not guilty at the beginning, two thought guilty of manslaughter, one of second degree murder and in the end they all concluded not guilty.
So, what happened during those 16 hours or whatever deliberations, Ben, it may have been the result of some confusion but go ahead and weigh in.
CRUMP: No, I think you're absolutely right, Wolf. They were confused. And I think lawyers have different styles, one of my style is to empower the jury. Your vote is your vote. You don't have to justify your vote to other members of the panel. You can say I feel this way. I have an abiding conviction in my heart that he should be found guilty, but for some reason, the three people who thought not guilty, felt they had to somehow justify themselves to the other members of the panel. And I think that is something that the lawyers have to do a better job of, especially if you're trying to make people stick to their guns. I know she asked for an -- she's wanting to apologize to Trayvon's parents. And you know, as Christians, they have to accept the apology, but as they said and everybody I have heard say they wish she would have fought harder.
BLITZER: Let me let Mark weigh in on this point. I know, Mark, you think the prosecution did a horrible job. What about the judge? When they asked for clarification on manslaughter, she said give me a specific question, otherwise just re-read that 27-page document and I read it several times. You read one page you say guilty. You read the next page and you say not guilty. It is confusing. You guys understand it because all went to law school and you are practicing attorneys. But to the average citizens out there, your head can start getting a little dizzy reading that.
GERAGOS: Look. One of the problems with getting into an interactive discussion with jurors whey they are deliberating, is as Jeff alluded to, that's a recipe for an appeal let reversal if there had been a conviction. If she had asked any question that in any way kind of guided the jury or can arguably guided the jury to get to a guilty verdict that would be right for an appellant lawyer.
So, what she did, I thought, and remember she did what the lawyers agreed to. The lawyers got together, both the prosecution and the defense and they gave her a response, which she blessed. They did not do that. They tried their case for the TV cameras. They tried their case for Sunny Hostin. They did not try it for the juror who was in there who needed, as to borrow Ben's line, to be empowered, to understand that their vote was as important as anybody's vote. They needed to try this for a hung jury, they didn't do it. They were in la la land the entire time.
BLITZER: Sunny, go ahead.
HOSTIN: Yes. I don't think that's fair. I think that the prosecution had the evidence to support a second degree murder conviction and manslaughter conviction quite frankly. I do agree with Mark. I think where they failed miserably is they did not humanize Trayvon Martin in front of this jury. I mean, after the verdict, I spoke to Sybrina Fulton. I interviewed her and the world found out that Trayvon Martin was an excellent science and math student and in fact was. You know, went to science and math camp and studied to be a pilot with the world's first African-American pilot who flew solo around the world. Why didn't the jury hear about that --
BLITZER: Why -- Sunny, what's the answer to that as to why they didn't hear that?
HOSTIN: I think the prosecution failed.
BLITZER: The other --
HOSTIN: In that regard.
MANLEY: Can I jump in? The prosecution did fail not only in not humanizing him and both jurors that we heard from post deliberation have told us they both said even though they came from different angles, give us a better menu. You're giving us the evidence but I'm having trouble lining up one column with the other and that tells us a lot about not understanding with the mountain of evidence and then all these jury instructions, how was prosecution failed to give them proper instructions that they could understand.
BLITZER: Jeff, you said along, as uncomfortable you were with the verdict, it was the right verdict. Listen to what this juror told ABC News about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MADDY: I'm thinking to myself did I go the right way? Did I go the wrong way? I know I went the right way because by the law and the way it was followed, it was the right. But if I used my heart I probably would have went a hung jury and believe it with all my heart because I do -- I do have kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You know, they were all sequestered during the course of that trial, Jeffrey. They didn't know what was going on outside of that courthouse. And to me, it sounds like this woman, this juror, after the not guilty verdict, the last few days, last few weeks, all of a sudden she realized the very angry reaction out there and it's had an impact on her.
TOOBIN: I think that's a huge part of what you're hearing.
Remember, they were picked in part because they had not followed this case closely in the news. So they were not familiar this was a big news story 18 months ago when it happened. So, they go, they are picked for the jury, then they were sequestered. They don't follow any news.
Suddenly, they come out. There is an acquitted and the president of the United States is discussing the verdict. There are protests all the way from New York to Los Angeles and the jurors are understandably traumatized by that. And I think that's what you're seeing a reaction to in Maddy's interview as much as to the evidence in the case.
Now, remember, just one more point about this idea that, you know, there were three for not guilty and three for some sort of conviction, that's very common when you have a jury beginning deliberations. There is nothing wrong with jurors changing their mind in the course of deliberations. That's why they deliberate. That's why they talk to each other. So, I don't think we can take that as evidence that something went wrong in these deliberations. That's how the process is supposed to work.
BLITZER: All right. Guys, unfortunately we have to leave it right there.
Sunny Hostin, thanks to you, Benjamin Crump, Jeffrey Toobin, Mark Geragos, Carolyn Robbins Manley. And excellent discussion. Thanks very much for joining us.
Trayvon Martin was hardly the first young African-American whose killing touched off a storm. Just ahead, the police shooting of an unarmed and handcuffed young man in the bay area and the powerful new movie it has inspired. The film's remarkable young director joins us.
Also, coming up, a passenger's view of the crash landing at New York's LaGuardia airport. You will see what the passenger saw as the plane touched down and the nose gear collapsed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: We've just gotten a unique view of Monday's crash landing of a southwest airlines Boeing 737 at New York's LaGuardia airport. A passenger took it, You Tube user killing in 7477 uploaded.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
BLITZER: You're looking out the window as the plane descents on runway four. It landed nose first according to an early NTSB report. The nose gear apparently hitting first. The plane scraping along the runway, a number on people were hurt. Full investigation now underway.
Let's go to Spain next, a passenger's account on what it was like to be on the train. The horrifying incident, it leaves the rails and all of the seconds of terror that follow. As you will see in a moment, a survivor of this wrecking North Western Spain lived to tell us about it, at least 78 others did not.
The train driver or engine near as called in the United States is being detained tonight and Karl Penhaul is on the scene for us tonight.
Karl, we are learning details about the driver of the train. What can you tell us?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he certainly was a veteran, veteran train driver. He had been working about for 30 years with the state rail way company and had experience probably over the last ten years or so driving this type of train, Wolf. We also know, of course, now he's in formal police detention, and they are accusing him of crimes relating to this accident, Wolf.
BLITZER: And were there also reports, Karl, that his now deleted facebook page showed him actually bragging about driving trains at very high speeds, is that right?
PENHAUL: Well, it certainly does appear clear from his facebook that this is a man with a zest for speed. We see in posting pictures of the speedometer on these trains. But then again, that's not necessarily in of itself any inference of wrongdoing. After all, these trains are designed for speed. These trains do go fast, and he is the driver of a fast train. But it's something the investigators will closely being looking if was the driver at this point on the track going too fast for the condition, Wolf.
BLITZER: Do we actually know, Karl, how fast the train was going when it crashed? Was it traveling over the speed limit?
PENHAUL: The state rail way company said while the investigation is ongoing. It will not reveal how fast that train was going. What we do know, that on this curve on this section of the track, the speed limit for that train is 45 miles an hour. We've seen the video of the moment of the crash. The train certainly looks to be going a lot faster than that at that stage, but it's not what the train driver says. There were block boxes on that train. The judges are looking now and maybe they will come up with an answer soon -- Wolf. BLITZER: All right, we'll wait and see. Karl Penhaul, thanks very much.
Two hundred and eighteen people were on the train's passenger manifest. Several of the injured were Americans including 18-year-old Stephen Ward, a Mormon missionary from Utah.
Stephen, it's really amazing you're able to be with us after what you've gone through. First of all, how are you feeling?
STEPHEN WARD, SPAIN TRAIN CRASH SURVIVOR: I'm feeling about as good as I possibly could given how I look, thank you.
BLITZER: What can you tell us about the train ride, the lead up to that horrible crash?
WARD: Well, I mean, a long story is it had been five long hours. The short story, the train was going pretty fast, we had a few sharp curves already and right when it finally did happen, we hit one sharp curve and you could feel the wheels pick up off the ground. It was like a roller coaster ride like leaning to one side. It didn't feel like it was dangerous. It just felt like wow, this is different. It was like that for one or two seconds and half a second, luggage started falling off the shelves and you could feel the train completely left the tracks and I blacked out before I hit the ground.
BLITZER: Before the crash you saw something that showed how fast the train was going and the number I take it surprised you.
WARD: I don't have the best eyesight and I was sitting far away from the screen, but there was a little screen that just had the date, time, temperature, destination and the speed. And for most of the trip it had said about 100 kilometers an hour and I looked up I don't remember it was like 10 seconds or 2 minutes before hand. But it was relatively close to the time and I thought it said 194 kilometers per hour. I could have been wrong, but it could have said 194.
BLITZER: Were you near the front of the train or the rear of the train?
WARD: I was in car number eight. The train was moving backwards regard to the number of cars so one was the final car. When we left the original station, there were at least 20 cars, but I don't know if we left some at various stops along the way.
BLITZER: I don't want you to talk about anything you're not comfortable with, but can you take us through what it was like as you were going around the curve, you know, only seconds before the crash and then what happened during the crash and only if you feel comfortable discussing it.
WARD: It was only one or two seconds between the time you could feel the train start to leave and between me losing consciousness. I honestly did not have the time to realize I think I might be about to die, or I think we might be crashing. Just whoa gravity is pulling me sideways towards the windows. There wasn't time to be scared or scream. It was relatively calm.
BLITZER: So what was it like immediately after the train derails? It crashes into that wall. You are obviously were in your seat, but there were no seat belts on trains, so what happened?
WARD: So I thought it was a dream as I woke up. I had been asleep and I assumed I fell asleep again. The first thing I remember -- first of all, my train car ripped apart from one next to it. So I was helped out of a door rather than a window. The first thing I remember is someone helping me through that door. I don't remember who it was.
If I did, I would thank them. They helped me out. The part of train I was at was in a little ditch next to the wall. They helped me out of the ditch 2 or 3 feet deep and I kind of sat there for a good 30 seconds looking around. They were helping other people out and I began to think to myself, I think this is real life. I don't think I'm asleep and it began to dawn on me something horrible happened.
BLITZER: Tell us about your injuries. We see the neck brace. What kind of injuries did you suffer?
WARD: So I came off much, much less injured than many of the people on the train, for which I'm grateful. As you can see I have the neck brace, staples in two places on my scalp, one over my eye and one on my chin. I've got a bad bruise on one leg and I've got other scrapes and scratches all over my body, but I'm eternally grateful for the fact that I have nothing that won't heal by itself. I didn't need surgery and it doesn't look like I will and in two about weeks I can get the neck brace off and live a normal life.
BLITZER: That sounds encouraging. I know you're just beginning your mission for the Mormon Church in Spain. In light of what happened, are you going to continue that two-year mission there in Europe or are you heading back to Utah?
WARD: I'm very much planning on continuing to serve my trip for the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the Mormon Church as you said, you know, sometimes things just happen you don't expect, but I feel like I really have the strength to stay out and volunteer and serve and work my hardest to the bitter end.
BLITZER: How does your family back home think about that?
WARD: I called them a couple times and so far as I can tell, they are proud of me and glad I'm safe and I'm glad they are taking it relatively well. I think we're glad I'm alive and relatively uninjured at this point.
BLITZER: We're glad about that, as well. Steven Ward, good luck to you and thanks very much for joining us.
WARD: Thank you very much for having me.
BLITZER: Just ahead, Ariel Castro agrees to a plea deal in the Cleveland kidnapping hostage case. Gary Tuchman was in the courtroom. He'll tell us what the deal entails and the staggering prison term Castro will receive.
Also tonight, a big development in the murder racketeering and extortion trial of the alleged Boston mobster Whitey Bulger.
BLITZER: Crime and punishment, in an Ohio courtroom today as Ariel Castro agreed to a deal pleading guilty to more than 900 counts including kidnapping, rape, assault, and aggravated murder for the miscarriage one of his victims had. He'll be sentenced to life in prison plus 1000 years no parole ever but also no death sentence.
The three women who were held hostage in his Cleveland house for a decade will not have to testify against him. Our Gary Tuchman was inside the courtroom as the hearing unfolded.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With glasses on his nose, a shuffling Ariel Castro walked into a Cleveland courtroom, shackles on his legs and handcuffs on his wrist and with plea agreement details in his head.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Are you fully aware of the terms and do you consent to the plea agreement?
ARIEL CASTRO: I'm fully aware and I do consent to it.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Do you understand that by virtue of the plea you will not be having a trial?
CASTRO: I'm aware of that.
TUCHMAN: One of Castro's victims, Amanda Berry gave birth to a daughter while in captivity. Castro stunned the courtroom when he stated this during the hearing.
CASTRO: I would like to say that I miss my daughter very much.
TUCHMAN: That daughter named Jocelyn is now six years old. The three women Castro victimized, Berry, Gina Dejesus and Michelle Knight, wanted to avoid testifying at the trial scheduled to start a week from Monday. After the plea deal was reached, they issued a statement saying that they are relieved by today's plea and are looking forward to having these legal proceedings draw to a final close in the near future. The official sentencing will take place next Thursday.
CASTRO: I don't necessarily --
TUCHMAN: But on this day Castro was fairly talkative and appeared uninterested -- and downright strange at times.
CASTRO: When I got arrested and interviewed, I told Mr -- to Dave I was willing to work with the FBI and I would tell them everything. I knew I would get the book thrown at me. There are some things that I don't have to comprehend because of my sexual problems throughout the years. I was also a victim as a child and it just kept going.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is certainly something you can bring up at your sentencing hearing.
TUCHMAN: The three victims will also be permitted to make statements if they choose at the sentencing hearing, a hearing that will end the legal case of Ariel Castro.
BLITZER: Gary Tuchman is joining us tonight from Cleveland. Gary, I know the three victims were not in court today. Any indications whether they will be in court on Thursday for the official sentencing?
TUCHMAN: Well, we know Castro is going to make some statements, so these three victims have every right to do it, also victim impact statement. They don't have an obligation but it's a right. It may be very tough for them to do that, but often therapists say it's very therapeutic for victims to make such a statement and they will have the support of an entire city and entire country if they do.
BLITZER: Did the judge respond, Gary, when Castro said he misses his daughter?
TUCHMAN: The judge did not issue a response, but prosecutors later said there is a zero percent chance that Castro will get any visitation rights with 6-year-old Jocelyn.
BLITZER: Gary Tuchman, thanks for your excellent, excellent reporting.
We're following a lot more tonight. Isha Sesay has a "360 Bulletin," -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, lawmakers in North Carolina agreed today to compensate people who were sterilized against their will. On the state eugenic law, more than 7,000 people were forcibly sterilized over 45-year period. If the governor signs the legislation, each verdict will receive about $50,000.
In Boston, federal prosecutors rested their case today against James "Whitey" Bulger. He is an alleged former mob boss charged in the deaths of 19 people as well extortion, racketeering and money laundering. The government called 63 witnesses to the stand.
And Wolf, it's party time in North Korea in extravagant style. The country is celebrating the 60s anniversary the signing of the Armistice that ended the Korean War back in 1953. CNN will have more of the celebration in North Korea throughout the weekend. Wolf, I know that you visited North Korea fairly recently, one of the few foreign journalists to do so.
BLITZER: They know how to throw a party and they are doing it now for the 60th anniversary of the end of the war. But there is a lot of serious stuff going on including a lot of tension on the Korean Peninsula. We'll check in with our reporters in North Korea all weekend. Isha, thanks very much.
Before Trayvon Martin, there was Oscar Grant whose fatal shooting by a transit cop was captured on cell phones. Grant was unarmed. His killer only served a year in prison. Now a new film about the 2009 shooting is getting ready to open this weekend and it couldn't be more timely. It's Ryan Coogler's first film and it's already generating Oscar buzz. I'll talk to him ahead.
BLITZER: You may have heard about "Fruitvale Station," a film opening nationwide this weekend in the wake of the George Zimmerman verdict. It's a fictionalize account of last 24 hours of Oscar Grant's life. Grant, you'll recall was fatally shot three years before Trayvon Martin. His killer a white transit cop went to trial and the verdict ignited riots.
You'll hear from the film's young director in just a moment, but first some background. The officer who killed Grant was charged with murder and many people were certainly would be convicted. A warning, the shooting itself was caught on tape. The images may be tough to watch. Here's Kyung Lah.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video is shot from a distance but what happens is unmistakable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let him go.
LAH: Multiple cell phone cameras rolled at the Fruitvale Bart Station as transit police handcuffed four young men on New Year's Day 2009. The men were seated, at least one handcuffed. Police forced 22-year-old Oscar Grant to the ground face down handcuffing him. Officer Johannes Mehserle draws what he says he thought was his taser but listen. It was his handgun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just shot him.
LAH: The point blank shot by the white officer into the back of the unarmed Oscar Grant killed him. Violent and fiery protest erupted in the wake of Grant's death and cries of police brutality against African-American men. The officer was arrested and charged with murder. The city was riveted by the trial and then came the verdict, guilty of a lesser charge, involuntary manslaughter. The nerve touched again. That was 2010, and the officer is now a freeman spending less than a year behind bars.
(on camera): Here in Oakland, Oscar Grant's death represents the very worst of gun violence and racism. His case may be over, but the problem is not. Today Oscar Grant has a new name, Trayvon Martin.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Oscar Grant's death resonated deeply with Ryan Coogler, a film student home on Christmas break at the time of the shooting. Coogler grew up in the same part of California as Grant and remembers thinking it could have been me on that train platform. He decided he had to tell Grant's story and now he has.
It's his first film. He made "Fruitvale Station" fresh out of film school. Forest Whitaker signed on as producer and Michael B. Jordan of the "Wire" and "Friday Night Lights" plays Grant. Much of the film focuses in on Grant's relationship with his family and friends, including his young daughter. Here is the moment when Grant leaves her for the last time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I'm scared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scared of what?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I hear guns outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what, baby? Those are just firecrackers. You're safe inside with your cousins.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: What about you, daddy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me? Baby, I'm going to be fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The film doesn't portray Grant as a saint in real life. He was an ex-con as well as a devoted and loving father. I spoke with Ryan Coogler earlier.
BLITZER: Ryan, listening what happened to Oscar Grant it's obviously difficult not to think of Trayvon Martin. One of the key differences between what happened to these two young men that you highlight in the film is that there were witnesses to Oscar's death and not only witnesses but witnesses with camera phones. How much of a difference do you think that made?
RYAN COOGLER, DIRECTOR, "FRUITVALE STATION": I mean, I think it's a big difference. I'm sorry to say we made the film not having the intention to have it released when this verdict came out with this case, and my prayers go out to Trayvon's family. But I think the actually the biggest difference between the two situations, the fact that people were there to record and other people witnessed to what happened there. Therefore, one group of people's word against somebody who is no longer with us, which is a situation that we saw happen in Florida.
BLITZER: Another big difference clearly was that Oscar was shot by a police officer, not a civilian, isn't that right? COOGLER: Absolutely. Oscar was shot by someone who is in a badge and uniform and had the weapon unconcealed. I saw a big difference in what happened with Trayvon Martin.
BLITZER: How big of a role do you think race played in Oscar's death? In other words, do you believe he would have been shot like he was had he been white?
COOGLER: I mean, there's no -- there's no way for me to say that. I think how Oscar looked and his appearance had a big role in him being apprehended and being pulled off the train that day. It's hard for me to say if race was the exact cause of that. But I can definitely say it played a role in him being detained and how people look is a role how they are judged and apprehended when it comes to law enforcement.
BLITZER: Let me show our audience, Ryan, a little clip from the movie's fight scene. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oscar, what is up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're causing a riot. Go, go, go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is an incident on the train.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Ryan, the way you portray Oscar, he's not a man without faults. He's lost his job, been in jail, he's a sometime drug dealer with a bit of a temper. I think about the facts about Trayvon Martin that came out over the course of the trial, his alleged use of pot for example, his fighting supposedly. Is it hard for people to sympathize when some bad things happen to imperfect people? What do you think -- in other words, is it easier for them when the good guys are all good, the bad guys are all bad?
COOGLER: I mean, I think for me, the big thing that this film was about is humanity and as human beings, we have flaws and pluses and minuses. For a lot of people in this country, young African- American males, we're seeing the minuses, our faults. Often times people will see us and judge us and make assumptions about us that are criminal and they see us as criminals and thugs as opposed to full human beings.
We should be judged as full human beings. What is happening with black on black crimes and officers involved shooting we need to focus on stopping these things happening before these lives are lost because once those lives are lost, we can't get those human beings back.
BLITZER: Thank you for having us, the film "Fruitvale Station" and the director, Ryan Coogler.
BLITZER: That does it for us. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts right now.