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Dueling Demonstrations in Egypt; Train Driver under Investigation; Zimmerman Juror Speaks Out, Expresses Regret; Pope Francis Visits Brazil

Aired July 26, 2013 - 12:00   ET


SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Bracing for a potential showdown in Egypt. The army chief has called for a mass rally in Tahrir Square. But the Muslim Brotherhood says supporters of the newly ousted president will not be intimidated in their own demonstration.

Plus --


STEPHEN WARD, TRAIN CRASH SURVIVOR: There was screaming. There were bodies. There was smoke. And it was after 30 seconds or a minute that I finally thought to myself, you know, I don't think I'm asleep. I think this is real. And that was a scary realization.


MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Not only did he survive that horrific train crash that killed 78 people in Spain, but this wasn't his first close call with death. The survivor speaks exclusively with CNN.

MALVEAUX: And in Brazil, thousands are turning out to catch a glimpse and perhaps even a kiss from the pope. We have a live report from Rio.

Welcome to AROUND THE WORLD. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

HOLMES: And I'm Michael Holmes. Thanks for your company.

Well, right now, major developments in Egypt. None of them particularly good news for the man who was elected president a year ago.

MALVEAUX: We are talking about Mohamed Morsy, the one-year president who was pushed out of office by military officers. That happened earlier in the month. But Morsy has not been seen in public since is coup. Most people think he's either in hiding or he's been detained somewhere by the army.

HOLMES: But the judge today ordered him to go to jail, fifteen days, on charges of spying and plotting with Hamas in something that happened before he was even elected president. Our Reza Sayah is in Cairo right now.

Reza, first of all, give us a sense of where you are. I spoke to you about an hour or so ago and there was a lot happening. You're in Nasa (ph) city. This is the pro-Morsy demonstrators. What's going on there?

REZA SAYAH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Still a lot of people out here, Michael. The crowds are big and they continue to come here despite temperatures that are approaching 100 degrees, despite the fact that many of these people are fasting for the holy month of Ramadan. We're going to try to approach the demonstrators. We might get mobbed, but let's give it a shot.

We've seen a lot of these dueling Friday demonstrations between these two sides, supporters and opponents of the ousted president Mohamed Morsy. But these demonstrations today look bigger. They feel much more intense. You get the impression that both sides know that this is a big day, an opportunity for both sides to come out and show their strength in this conflict where all political factions are saying, forget about democratic institutions. We're going to go out on the streets to show Egypt and the world that we outnumber the other side.

Of course, this is the pro-Morsy side. Supporters of the ousted president who want him reinstated. They believe his ouster was illegitimate. A few miles away from here, of course, you have opponents of President Morsy who are happy that he's out. Those are the liberals, the moderates.

And, remarkably, increasingly you're seeing many supporters of the military and the top general here, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who made the unusual move earlier this week of calling for mass demonstrations in support of the military. And that's why you have this potential showdown again where you have these two sides in this conflict that keeps going on and on.

MALVEAUX: And, Reza, I don't know if you can hear me here, but this is Suzanne. And I want to ask you, how are they separating these two groups? Are they far away from each other -- those who support Morsy and those who are against him -- in terms of trying to make sure that there isn't violence, they're not fighting between these two sides.

SAYAH: Yes, that's always the concern. Thank you. That's always the concern when you have demonstrations, that some of these elements are going to cross paths. However, they're keeping away from one another so far. And the best news right now is we haven't seen any violence.

However, as nighttime comes, often times you have the more unsavory, nasty elements come out. And that's why there's fear that within the coming hours, there will be clashes. But at this point, most of these demonstrations are staying away from one another and they're remaining peaceful.

HOLMES: All right, Reza Sayah there in the thick of things in Nasa city. It is Ramadan. It is hot. And a lot of people feeling that even more people are going to come out once the sun goes down, and it is approaching that now.

MALVEAUX: Yes, I mean, we're going to be keeping a close eye on that. Obviously there's been a lot of violence lately and it could get a lot uglier.

Relieving the terrifying moments from Wednesday's deadly train crash. This was in Spain.

HOLMES: Yes, Stephen Ward, he's an American teenager, he was on the train when it left the rails and crashed. At least 78 people were killed, well over 100 injured, many of them seriously. One moment everything was normal. The next, Ward is covered in blood.

MALVEAUX: Exclusive interview with CNN, he gives a first-hand account of how it all unfolded.


STEPHEN WARD, TRAIN CRASH SURVIVOR: I was writing in my journal. I kind of looked up and saw the speed and thought, oh, that's funny. I thought it might have been an error or something. And then we went around a sharp turn. And all of a sudden like you could tell one set of wheels left the rails. We were kind of just riding on one set of wheels for two or three seconds.

And there wasn't really screaming. Most people were kind of like, oh, but no one got super scared about it. A few things of luggage started falling off the racks. And then after one or two seconds, you could feel us leave the other set of tracks and the whole train rotated about 90 degrees. And I blacked out before we hit the ground, which was very lucky for me. And the next thing I knew, they were helping me out.

And I thought it was a dream for a couple of minutes. I vaguely remember someone helping me out of the car. I don't remember what it looked like inside at all. And then they kind of helped me out. The train had fallen into a ditch where I was, and they helped me up and off to the side.

I kind of looked around. I was one of the first people they helped out. They were helping other people out. There was screaming. There were bodies. There was smoke. And it was after 30 seconds or a minute that I finally thought to myself, you know, I don't think I'm asleep. I think this is real. And that was a scary realization.

Everyone was covered in blood. I've got staples all over my scalp. I was covered in blood. They've scrubbed most of it off me now, but we -- everyone was just covered in their own blood and occasionally the blood of others. It was gruesome to say the least.

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": Now this is a horrible thing to live through, but you did live through it, thank God. And you know what it's like to get lucky and make it through something, right? Four years ago, even though you're a young man, you had to fight off a very rare form of cancer, right? Tell us about that.

WARD: It is a cancer called Burkitt Lymphoma. It's intestinal. It was -- I had it twice. It came back once. There were a bunch of times when it looked like I was going to die. I beat the odds then, and I'm grateful to have lived through another brush with death now.

CUOMO: So, where does this situation leave you? Do you want to get home or did this strengthen your resolve that you want to stay on mission in Spain?

WARD: I absolutely want to stay on my mission in Spain. I am so proud to be out here representing my church. I'm proud to be representing Jesus Christ. And I'm so glad that I've been left alive without permanent injury. I very much plan on staying out here for -- missions are usually a full two -- for two years for young men and I plan on serving the full two.


MALVEAUX: Just an amazing young man.

HOLMES: What a story, yes.

MALVEAUX: Just incredible there.

HOLMES: Yes, a story of surviving. But, of course, one American woman from Virginia was killed in that crash.

MALVEAUX: Spanish investigators are now focusing on the driver of the train. We have new video now of the driver. You can see there, he was led away from the wreckage. Police now confirm he is in custody while he's being treated in a hospital.

HOLMES: CNN's Karl Penhaul is at the crash site, has been covering this since it happened.

Karl, the investigation, obviously, looking now very much at the speed of that train and the driver, too, who is now formally detained. Explain that.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he's formally detained. And, in fact, the regional police chief, Jaime Iglesias, told us that early this morning. He said he's formally detained and will be accused of crimes relating to the accident. Now, when reporters put it to him what crimes, he muttered under his breath, "recklessness," in his words. So that, again, may point to some kind of fact that excessive speed was at play here.

But in spite of all the investigations, I think we're right. You know, you were playing those -- that sound from the interview with Stephen Ward. This is very much a human story. A story of death, a story of survival, a story, too, of tremendous solidarity. And we were speaking to one of the firefighters, one of the first firefighter who arrived on the scene and he said, yes, they were able to save many people, but he also said that there were many others he wasn't able to save. Listen to what he had to say.


MIGUEL ANGEL BELLO, SANTIAGO DE COMPOSTELA FIREFIGHTER (through translator): There was a young woman. She was trapped under an axel of a train. Trapped. While she was trapped, she was conscious and she was saying, "please, get me out of here. Get me out of here. Why aren't you helping me get out of here?" She didn't realize what she had on top of her. That's when you truthfully feel it a bit, but you have to go on. You have to keep trying to help her. But, of course, that axel wasn't moving without a crane. She later died. She was about 22 years old.

Yes, yes, she told me that she wanted to get out of there and she wanted to get out of there and to help her. But it was impossible. It was impossible. She was saying that she wanted to go home.


PENHAUL: But, you know, it wasn't even the emergency service workers, although they did an absolutely fabulous job by all accounts, but they weren't the first ones on the scene after this crash. The ones that were on the scene first were residents, people who lived in houses alongside the railway tracks.

Just a few moments ago I was talking to an old pensioner (ph) couple, 69 years old, and they said it was just a normal evening when they heard that crash, the squeal of metal on concrete, and this 69 year old lady tells me how she raced out of her house with all her bed sheets to wrap the bloodied, injured people in those bed sheets because they were shivering with shock. Her husband carried down some lengths of rope and helped pull up some of those survivors up the embankment. As I say, stories of death, stories of survival and stories of tremendous solidarity too.

MALVEAUX: Unbelievable. Karl, thank you so much. I mean what those people went through and just, if you can imagine, I mean that is going to stay with you for the rest of your life. Just the images of people.

HOLMES: Heartbreaking. Yes, heartbreaking stuff.

MALVEAUX: Well, it looks like Dominic Straus Kahn is going to trial. Remember he is the French politician and former head of the International Monetary Fund, who was accused of sexually assaulting a hotel maid in New York City two years ago. Well, he was cleared of those charges, but another alleged sex crime stuck. This time back in France.

MALVEAUX: Yes, prosecutors say Straus Kahn attended sex parties knowing that some of the partiers were prostitutes. Straus Kahn now charged under French law with pimping. He has been named in or involved with several sex crime allegations but he has never been convicted.

MALVEAUX: Here's more of what we're working on for AROUND THE WORLD.

Pope Francis meeting with young prisoners in Brazil today. We're going to have a live report.

HOLMES: Check this guy out. Yes, Mick Jagger. A career that has spanned half a century, shows no sign of slowing down, even as this rocker approaches a milestone.


MADDY, ZIMMERMAN JUROR B29: George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God.


MALVEAUX: Anguished and apologetic, Zimmerman juror B29 speaking out about the case that is still dividing this country.


MALVEAUX: We expect to hear from Trayvon Martin's mother who's speaking out today. Sybrina Fulton, she is taking part in a panel. This is at the National Urban League Conference out of Philadelphia. We expect her to speak any moment now. So, as soon as she does, we'll keep an eye on the event. You see that live camera there. We are going to bring that to you live, her remarks.

HOLMES: Meanwhile, Trayvon's mother says it is devastating to hear the comments from the latest juror to speak out about the trial.

MALVEAUX: So that juror told ABC News that she feels George Zimmerman got away with murder, but she says the law wouldn't allow for a conviction.


ROBYN ROBERTS, ABC NEWS: What was your first vote?

MADDY, ZIMMERMAN JUROR B29: My first vote was second-degree murder.

ROBERTS: Second-degree murder.

MADDY: In between the nine (ph) hours, it was hard. A lot of us had wanted to find something bad. Something that we could connect to the law. For myself, he's guilty because the evidence shows he's guilty.

ROBERTS: He's guilty of?

MADDY: Killing Trayvon Martin. But as the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't find -- you can't say he's guilty.

ROBERTS: Did you want to step out at all? Did you want to quit?

MADDY: I was the juror that was going to give him the hung jury. Oh, I was. I fought till the end. I mean it's hard for me to sleep. It's hard for me to eat because I feel that I was forcibly included in Trayvon Martin's death. And as I carry him on my back, I'm hurting as much as Trayvon Martin's mom is. Because there's no way that any mother should feel that pain.

ROBERTS: But you feel in your heart of hearts that you and the jury approached it and came with the decision and you stand by that decision to this day?

MADDY: I stand by the decision because of the law. If I stand by the decision because of my heart, he would have been guilty.


MALVEAUX: Well, we've now heard from two jurors about what went on inside the jury room and how they reached this decision to find George Zimmerman not guilty.

HOLMES: Their interviews shed new light on the deliberations and, importantly, how they interpreted the law.

Joining us to talk a little bit more on this is defense attorney and former prosecutor Tanya Miller.

When you first heard that Juror B29's comments about the deliberation, what went through your mind? It sounds like she wanted to convict of something.

TANYA MILLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, I mean, I was a little confused at first. Why is she saying this right now? She's sending very mixed messages.

She's saying, on the one hand, he got away with murder, and then on the other hand she's saying, I believed it, but because of the law I couldn't find him guilty of that.

And so that to me is very confusing because if she believed, in fact, that the prosecution proved their case she was absolutely empowered to vote guilty.

So I'm not sure if she is confused or what exactly's going on or why she came on TV to say this.

MALVEAUX: Do you think that she didn't understand the law or understand the jury instructions, that she felt there was nothing?

I mean, what could make her go from second-degree murder to acquittal?

HOLMES: Is she feeling that morally he committed murder, but legally ...

MILLER: Maybe. That could explain why there's this sort of dichotomy between the two ideas she has. One, he's guilty of murder. The other, I have to acquit him.

And we heard this from Juror B37, too, this idea that we felt we had to do it because of the law.

I think all of the jurors in this case were confused about the law. I think that the defense did a good job of telling them what they believe the law meant.

The prosecution maybe could have given this juror, B29, a little bit more ammunition to go back in that jury room and argue for her position and why her position was supported by the law, and I don't think they did that.

MALVEAUX: Does it surprise you she was able to be convinced? I mean, that really is a very unique situation, being a part of a jury. I was just part of a jury for two days, a little fender bender, but the prospect of all 12 of us coming to an agreement, unanimous agreement, it was very stressful and people push.

Do you think she was just pushed?

MILLER: I think that could have possible happened. I think that's a possibility.

Look, when you're the sole juror back there holding this position that nobody else has, and you don't really feel your equipped to argue your position effectively, it can be very isolating.

They were sequestered. They were away from their families. The world was watching.

I'm sure she sort of felt like, well, I'm trapped. I don't really know how to get my position -- get the other side to agree to my position, and we've got to do something, so she may be been bullied or beaten down or sort of persuaded harshly.

She didn't really give that indication, but that's not uncommon during jury deliberations.

HOLMES: All right, Tanya, thanks so much. Tanya Miller, appreciate it.

MILLER: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: Amazing, she's also coming out publicly. You know, she's showing her face. She's explaining her position. It will be interesting to see how people respond to her now.

HOLMES: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's a brave thing to do.

All right, now we're going to move on for other things that we're working on for "Around the World."

And this guy, I tell you what, places to go, people to see, pilgrims to meet. Prisoners, too.

MALVEAUX: It's the pope in Brazil. We've got a live report up next.


HOLMES: Welcome back.

Just half an hour ago in Copacabana, Brazil, the pope met with five, young prison inmates.

MALVEAUX: The meeting was part of a week-long trip to Brazil. It has the world's largest population of Catholic, more than 120 million faithful. They are just going crazy over this pope.

The trip has been reminding the world -- the pope, reminding the world about poverty, of course, where -- this is the place where millions of folks live in poverty.

HOLMES: Miguel Marquez joins us now, live in Rio de Janeiro, been following us all along.

Miguel, unusual to meet with prison inmates, and, I mean, my goodness, hasn't he been a busy man?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A very, very busy guy. I think there's articles about how he's -- and the press person saying he's running his staff ragged on this trip. This is a 76-year-old guy who has half a lung and he's going like mad.

This is not the first time that he's met with young prisoners. He did it as an archbishop in Argentina. After becoming pope, he did it in Rome with some young prisoners there. And now he's done it again.

It's not clear what he met with them about, but we expect to get a read on that a little bit later.

But, yeah, this is a guy who basically wants people at the lowest classes of society to know that people at the highest levels know about them, and he wants them to help each other.

MALVEAUX: And, Miguel, we hear the music in the background. Obviously, Rio, it's a lot -- you know, good times and fun, all that.

But the pope, he really -- he blasted the government, did he not, in taking on those issues because a lot of Brazilians are like, look, we are suffering, we're in poverty here and the government is spending lots and lots of money on these grand events.

The pope really addressed that, yeah?

MARQUEZ: Blasting might be a little tough, but he did go after that sentiment. I mean, he -- his message is we have to work with one another. We can't have corruption.

I know that you, as young people, are particularly sensitive to injustice and your government has not always worked. Political institutions have not always worked.

But keep the faith. Things change. People change. We can have change. And it's a very activist message that he seems to be getting out.

MALVEAUX: Yeah. Yeah, one that a lot of people really welcome.

HOLMES: He's still got a lot more on his plate.

Miguel, thanks so much, Miguel Marquez.

I've never seen somebody kiss so many babies. They're throwing babies at this man.

MALVEAUX: And his security situation, as we've been talking about all week, is crazy. HOLMES: The security guys are having to do the passing of the babies now.

MALVEAUX: It's unbelievable.

HOLMES: It's unbelievable.

MALVEAUX: He's walking the streets.


MALVEAUX: Here's more of what we're working for "Around the World."

HOLMES: He has strained U.S.-Russia relations for the last month or so. Now the attorney general speaking out about Edward Snowden, that man there.

We're going to have a live report for you.


HOLMES: Welcome back to "Around the World." Here are some of the top stories.

Right now in Tunisia, a lot of concern, there are thousands of protesters filling the streets, this after a politician was shot outside his home yesterday.

MALVEAUX: He is the second opposition leader to be assassinated in five months.

Now some protesters, they are demanding that the Islamist-led government resign, while pro-government demonstrators, they are shouting, no to a coup against democracy.

And one member of a Russian punk rock band will have to stay in jail.

This is Pussy Riot performing an anti-government song at an Orthodox cathedral in Moscow. This was last year.

Now the three women members of the band, they were arrested and tried.

HOLMES: Two of them got two-year jail sentences. International rights groups, of course, at the time, were very critical of the trial.

A Russian court today said nyet, or no, to one member of the band who had been up for parole, so they're staying in jail.

MALVEAUX: We're also following the new developments. This is the case of intelligence leaker Edward Snowden.

Well, Attorney General Eric Holder, he now says that Snowden's request for temporary asylum is without merit.

MALVEAUX: Well, we've now heard from two jurors about what went on inside the jury room and how they reached this decision to find George Zimmerman not guilty.