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CONNECT THE WORLD
North, South Korea Commemorate 60th Anniversary End To Korean War; Pro, Anti-Morsy Demonstrations Spread Through Egypt; Excessive Speed Could Be At Fault For Trail Derailment In Spain; Pope Francis Visits Rio Favela
Aired July 26, 2013 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM CLANCY, HOST: Tonight, showdown on the streets. Rival rallies erupting in Egypt. We ask what is next for this country in crisis.
Also ahead, slums, slang and a dose of sunshine. Pope Francis is a hit with the faithful in Brazil.
And 11 billion people by century's end. Seems crowded. But one expert tells us there's no reason to worry.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is Connect the World.
CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy in Atlanta. We're going to begin our report with rival mass rallies now underway in Egypt's capital Cairo after authorities finally laid out their case for jailing deposed president Mohamed Morsy. Tens of thousands of Egyptians are showing their support for the military in Tahrir Square, that's on the left side of your screen - no, rather, on the right side.
The army called for that rally, saying it wanted a mandate to fight terrorism, its words.
Then on the left, Cairo's Nasr City. Supporters there, supporters of Mohamed Morsy, demanding he be reinstated as the rightfully elected president. They're furious over accusations being leveled against him today.
Morsy is accused of collaborating with the militant group Hama to stage prison breaks that freed him and others during the 2011 uprising against Hosni Mubarak.
He's also investigation for the murder of policemen and soldiers.
Now the situation in Cairo has remained relatively calm. But state media are now reporting at least five people in Alexandria in the north of the country have been killed in clashes between rival protesters.
Let's get the very latest now from Cairo. In a moment, we'll be going to Ben Wedeman. He's covering the pro-military demonstrations there in Tahrir Square. But first, let's go to Reza Sayah at Nasr City with supporters of Mohamed Morsy.
What is their mood tonight? They're looking at a deadline that is essentially telling them they shouldn't be taking to the streets anymore.
CLANCY: Reza Sayah, can you hear me? This is Jim Clancy in Atlanta.
Reza may not be able to hear me.
Let's cross over to Ben Wedeman. Ben, if you can hear me, you are at a rally there at Tahrir Square once again. These are people the military asked to come out. It seems that all power in Egypt is now flowing from the streets and the squares.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly that would appear to be the case, but obviously the defense minister does have enough pool so that when he tells the people of Egypt to go out in the street and give him a mandate to, in his words, wage a way against terrorism and violence, the people do listen. And what we're seeing is a huge crowd here.
And it's not just Tahrir Square, it's Itihadiya Palace, which is the Egyptian equivalent of the White House and the bridges going across the Nile.
So it is a huge crowd. And it does appear that many people listened to what the television stations told them, the newspapers told them to go down into the squares and show support for Abdel Fattah al-Sisi and his government - Jim.
CLANCY: Ben, if you will, stay right there. I want to cross over to our colleague Reza Sayah who is with the Morsy supporters. Reza, if you can hear me now, how are they taking this deadline that confronts them, a deadline that would seem to say end your street demonstrations?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think in many ways, Jim, it's further galvanizing them, it's further uniting them, and further fueling their determination to keep demonstrating.
This is the major thoroughfare that leads to a mosque here in east Cairo that's been really their home base, the home base of Morsy supporters ever since the former president was ousted more than three weeks ago. And during these three weeks, there have been many large demonstrations, but clearly this is the biggest one. Tens of thousands of people throughout the day screaming to that mosque, having a sit-in over there. Many demonstrating (inaudible).
If you walk around this crowd, you'll see that many of them are devout Muslims, Islamists, but many will come up to you and say I'm not an Islamist. I don't believe long to the Muslim Brotherhood, I believe in democracy. I believe in a democratic process. And I want my democratically elected president reinstated.
The problem for many of these people is, there doesn't seem to be at this point any kind of political mechanisms available for them to get Mr. Morsy reinstated. But they say it doesn't matter, we're going to continue to come and demonstrate.
And this conflict, that really has these factions coming out and fighting in the streets when it comes to demonstrations, trying to outnumber one another. And you have to believe this was an important day for them to put forth a show of strength, especially with earlier in the week General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, the head of the armed forces, coming out in what many describe as an unusual move calling for mass demonstrations. You have to believe that many of these Morsy backers thought that we have to respond with a show of strength. And they've certainly done that at least where we are in Nasr City.
And the question moving forward is how are these dueling demonstrations, where you have these two sides going at it on the streets, how is it going to resolve this political conflict? How are these two sides going to reconcile?
At this point, there's no evidence of that happening, but plenty of evidence of both sides coming out en masse and demonstrating over and over again, Jim.
CLANCY: Reza, thank you. I want to cross back over to Ben Wedeman. And Ben ask you, as we get news that we've now got, according to government sources, five dead, 72 wounded in Alexandria, the military hasn't made it clear just how it plans to crack down on terrorism, whether it sees street demonstrations like we're watching where Reza is located as that kind of a thing that has to be confronted.
But obviously they are courting confrontations if they try to crack down on all of that, aren't they?
WEDEMAN: Yes, they definitely are.
Now the military has been at pains to say that they're the ultimatum, the 48 hour ultimatum that was issued by the army saying that if the situation doesn't change the government will change its tactic in dealing with violence and terrorism.
They're stressing they're not sort of focusing on sort of one specific group. And it's very unclear whether they would be really actually prepared to go into these areas, the sit-ins of the supporters of the deposed president and clear them out. It could be very bloody.
We saw what happened just two weeks ago outside the Republican Guard headquarters where 51 people were killed in addition to one member of the armed forces.
And, you know, even though the focus is on the Muslim Brotherhood and the situation in Cairo and Alexandria, you have to keep in mind what's going on in the Sinai where on a daily basis the military and the police have come under attack from not necessarily the Muslim Brotherhood, but extremist elements linked with al Qaeda, smugglers, criminals, and that is really a source of real concern to the military. And that may be where their real focus, their concerns when they're talking about terrorism and violence really are. That's one area we need to keep a close eye on - Jim.
CLANCY: All right, Ben Wedeman putting it in perspective for us. Our thanks to Ben. Our thanks to Reza Sayah who is there with the Morsy supporters as they demand he be reinstated as the democratically elected leader of Egypt.
We'll have much more ahead on the crisis in Egypt. And we're going to hear from both sides of this debate. A member of the June 30th Front, that's a group that called for Morsy to be ousted, is going to be debating a spokeswoman for the Muslim Brotherhood. All of that is coming your way in about 20 minutes right here on Connect the World.
And still to come tonight, an update on the ground in Spain as new leads emerge into Wednesday's deadly train wreck.
Another busy day for the pope. A day after a million people came out to see him on Copacabana Beach. We'll be live in Rio with Shasta Darlington with more.
Also, Hugh Jackman is hoping his latest film claws its way to success. That's coming up in your weekly entertainment fix.
CLANCY: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. And you are with Connect the World. I'm Jim Clancy. Glad to have you with us.
Tunisia's interior ministry says the same gun, the exact same gun that was used to assassinate two top opposition MPs who were killed this year, Mohamed al-Brahmi was murdered outside his home on Thursday. This comes five months after the killing of Chokri Belaid, another critic of the Islamist led government.
Both of their deaths sparked mass protests and calls for Tunisia's ruling Ennahda Party to be dissolved. The streets of Tunis have been fairly quiet this Friday. That's largely due to a general strike being held in response to al-Brahmi's murder.
Many expect protesters are going to be returning to the streets this weekend.
The U.S. is piling on the pressure urging Russia to hand over intelligence leaker Edward Snowden. U.S. attorney general Eric Holder assuring Moscow the former national security agency contractor will not be tortured and will not face the death penalty if he is returned to the U.S. Holder says that should eliminate any grounds for temporary asylum.
Snowden has spent the last month holed up in a Moscow airport trying to avoid U.S. espionage charges. His father has been speaking out in his defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LON SNOWDEN, EDWARD SNOWDEN'S FATHER: I believe that my son when he takes his final breath, whether it's today or 100 years from now, he will be comfortable with what he did, because he did what he knew was right. He shared the truth with the American people. What we choose to do with it is up to us as a people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: In another story now coming out of Russia, a second member of the punk band Pussy Riot has had her request for parole denied. A court ruled that Nadezhda Tolokonnikova had not repented for her crime of hooliganism last year when she and her two other band members performed a protest song in a Moscow cathedral. He colleague Maria Alyokhina was denied parole on Wednesday.
To Spain now where the train driver involved in one of the country's worst ever disasters is currently under police guard in the hospital. At least 78 people now have lost their lives, another 80 remain hospitalized after the train derailed on Wednesday near the northwestern town of Santiago de Compostela.
Authorities say they're investigating the driver.
Let's get more now from Karl Penhaul. He's at the site of the crash.
Karl, reports now that this train may have been going more than twice what it was supposed to be speeding at?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it's been somewhat difficult to pin a lot of this down, Jim. I'll tell you why, because a lot of this is still under wraps. A lot of it is being considered by judges. A judge is looking at the contents of the train's black box, for example. That's going to give a lot of data, some technical data, but also voice recording that may give us a clue or will most certainly will give us a clue about how fast the train was going.
And we have also heard from local media reports that the driver when he put in a call to emergency services, then again he himself talked about how fast he was going compared to the speed limit. And that is where this idea comes from that he could have been traveling at least twice the permitted speed on this bend, on this section of the track.
These trains are designed to run fast, up to 250 kilometers an hour on certain sections of the track. No suggestion, of course, that the train should have been going anywhere near that fast coming around the bend.
But government officials have also said that we should keep a very open mind on this. They're still insisting that they're going to look at all possibilities behind this - behind this disaster. But certainly today their police chief of the region said that he would be looking to accuse the train driver of crimes relating to this accident when a reporter said to him what exactly do you have in mind? His first comment was recklessness. So that certainly points to the fact that the police chief thinks the driver was going way too fast around that curve, Jim.
CLANCY: Look at it, somebody has to ask themselves why would he be going that fast? What was his motive for doing that? Was he late? Or was there any explanation given - mechanical failure?
PENHAUL: Again, investigators are combing through all the evidence. They obviously looked through the wreckage of - on all the train while it was still down there on the track. And now over a period of two days they've hoisted those wagons up, put them on low loaders and taken them away to another location to continue combing through them forensically.
They will be collating witness statements. They'll be collating statements from people who were on the train from the drivers themselves. And so still no evidence about whether there was possible mechanical failure, although we have heard from the president of the state rail company RENFE. And he says that very train was checked out just the morning of that journey, part of a routine check and was found to be fine.
AS far as what the motivations of the driver could be for going too fast, again we're going to have to wait for that one, though I have seen again media reports that he had a Facebook page, that Facebook page has now been suspended, I understand. But on there, he did make some statements that he liked speed. He liked to go fast.
But again, as I say, let's not forget this was an express train. It is designed to go fast, at least on certain parts of that route, Jim.
CLANCY; All right, Karl Penhaul there reminding us that we're going to have to be patient as this investigation moves forward. Going to remind you that a number of people remain critically injured in the hospital, including some children.
Karl Penhaul, thank you.
French media are reporting now that Dominique Strauss-Kahn is going to be facing trial. On what charges? Pimping. Investigators have concluded the former head of the International Monetary Fund should be tried in connection with an alleged prostitution ring in France. Strauss-Kahn has admitted to attending sex parties there, but says he didn't know the women were prostitutes.
Lawyers in the U.S. state of Ohio have reached a plea deal with Ariel Castro. Now Ariel Castro was the man who is accused of kidnapping three young women and then holding them captive for 10 years, almost 11 years in one case, at his Cleveland home. This is a deal that gives him a life sentence plus 1,000 years. No possibility of parole. He acknowledged that in court.
But it does allow him to escape the death penalty. And it spares the victims from having to testify at a trial.
It's been a very busy day for one Pope Francis, or Pope Francisco. And his Brazil trip continues. He's there for the week long World Youth Day celebrations. And this morning, he heard confessions and he met with young prisoners.
And then he received a huge welcome at the archbishop's palace in Rio.
All right, my dearest, good day. The pope is hoping his visit will inspire young people in the church. Around a million people came out to see him on Thursday evening. And in just under an hour's time, he's going to be leading the way of the cross in Copacabana.
Shasta Darlington is in Rio. She joins us now. He's reaching out to young people. And he's doing it in a way that addresses some of their hopes, some of their fears, about the future. Young people around the world seem to share the notion that life isn't good for them. They look at the youth unemployment rate everywhere, including there where you are in Rio de Janeiro. And they wonder what lies ahead.
Is he giving them hope?
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Jim. He's really reaching out to them where it matters. He's actually addressed some very specific concerns of young people and poor people in Brazil and a couple of different messages. On the one hand, we've had these violent protests over the last month, a lot of them aimed at what people view as government corruption, inefficiency, bad services. And he had this great speech yesterday where he said I know you're frustrated with corruption. Don't be discouraged. Keep believing. Keep up hope. Almost encouraging them to sort of keep up the protests.
So you can imagine people - a lot of young people were pretty excited about that.
But he also was speaking to the poor. This was in a favela here in Rio de Janeiro. And he warned - he warned the authorities that the people in power that there will be no peace until society stops pushing the poorest to the side, marginalizing them.
And of course we see this - these aren't just speeches. This is a man who is walking among the people here in Rio de Janeiro. He's done it his entire life. And that is really touching people's hearts. I spoke to one young man today who said he believes in god, but he's never believed in religion until now. Now he thinks he may be Catholic, Jim.
CLANCY: We're watching some incredible pictures live, Shasta. As the popemobile winds its way through the streets and thousands upon thousands of people come out to meet him, he - as you tell me, he's making that connection, breaking from tradition?
DARLINGTON: Absolutely, Jim. I mean, there's actually a joke going around Rio de Janeiro right now. Get your babies out, because he is kissing so many babies that young families are lining up with their small children and their babies, holding them up all along the route, hoping that they'll get their child blessed or kissed.
He's also - we've seen this a few times. He's taking off his skull cap and exchanging caps with people in the crowd when they hold out caps. Just these very familiar, almost colloquial gestures, they really resonate with people here, Jim.
CLANCY: Shasta, great reporting, incredible pictures, and I understand that his aides are completely exhausted in trying to accompany him. You just look at the enthusiasm with which he's communicating with that crowd that he's alongside right now. You're looking at live pictures. And you can see why the aides are probably a little exhausted by this point in the trip.
Much more - many thanks to Shasta Darlington, some great coverage there Shasta.
Well, live from Atlanta, this is Connect the World. And coming up, an anniversary shared between two nations. We'll look at the celebrations and the commemorations marking 60 years since the end of the Korean War.
CLANCY: You are with Connect the World live from the CNN Center in Atlanta. Welcome back everyone. I'm Jim Clancy.
You know, it's been 60 years since an armistice finally ended the Korean War. The Korean peninsula remains divided tonight. And commemorative events on both sides have been planned for this weekend.
Thursday, North Korean leader Kim Jong un opening up a new war veterans cemetery in Pyongyang. Thousands cheered for him as he toured the new memorial. While in South Korea, a solemn affair. American veterans marched in Seoul's national cemetery to remember the fallen.
Throughout North and South Korea, these days of course not fighting openly, but they certainly couldn't be said to be getting along either. Fierce political differences and massively different economic structures continue to divide the two.
CNN has been given special access inside North Korea to mark this anniversary. Ivan Watson has more on the north's secretive economy.
IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the Kim il- Songia (ph) and Kim Jong-ilia (ph) flower festival, a big pavilion devoted to two flowers named after the founder of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and his son who also ruled his country until his death.
Now, these flowers are a big source of pride in this country. We're told that nearly every institution in North Korea has a greenhouse devoted to growing these flowers. And that's taking place in a country with very cold winters.
North Korea is very well known for its lavish, patriotic displays. And that's taking place in a country that's had a rather rough economic time over the course of the past 20 years.
Now, in our short, very controlled time in Pyongyang, we are definitely not seeing any of the signs of the terrible famine of the 1990s which killed hundreds of thousands of North Koreans due to starvation. In fact, experts are telling us they're seeing more cars on the roads than before and that people seem to have better clothes as well.
And this is despite the fact that there are rather strong, crippling United Nations sanctions against North Korea.
It's very hard to get economic statistics on this country. The system is very opaque here. We rely on figures coming from the central bank of South Korea which says that the economy has, in fact, grown in 2011 and 2012.
We also know that a big chunk of North Korea's international trade comes through one center, the Kaesong Industrial Park that's in North Korea, South Korean industrialists they run factories there that use North Korean labor.
Just last April, the North Korean government shut down that industrial center, because of a crisis in relations with South Korea and much of the international community. And that just goes to show that even now, economics takes a backseat to politics in North Korea.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Pyongyang.
CLANCY: This reminder, CNN has much more on the way the Koreas are marking the 60th anniversary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: This is a mass, collective display of national unity and North Korean political will. And it's also a message that 60 years after the Korean War, this country is still here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: Live coverage from Pyongyang just under five hours from now as North Korean prepares to put its military hardware on display in a huge parade. It's a special edition of CNN Newsroom coming your way 10:00 pm eastern time. That's 10:00 in the morning in Hong Kong.
The latest world news headlines are just ahead. Plus, a little more than three weeks after he was overthrown, Egypt's first freely elected president is now formally accused of murder and more.
And Snoop Dogg, then Snoop Lion, and now introducing Snoop Snail. We'll explain in your weekly entertainment fix.
CLANCY: This is CONNECT THE WORLD on CNN. These are your top stories this hour.
The driver of that train that derailed in northwestern Spain is now under police guard in a hospital. He's being investigated but has not yet been charged. At least 78 people died in Wednesday's tragedy. Another 81 remain hospitalized.
At least 41 people were killed, dozens more wounded after a twin blast in northwestern Pakistan. Reports now say the explosions ripped through a busy marketplace about 15 kilometers from the Afghan border as shoppers were stocking up to break the Ramadan fast. No one has claimed responsibility.
CLANCY: Live pictures, now. You see Pope Francis. He is in Copacabana in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, continuing World Youth Day celebrations. Right now, he's on his way to lead the Way of the Cross for his Catholic followers. The popes has been telling young Catholics, honor the elderly on this Grandparents' Day.
All right, we want to return to our top story now, Cairo, where huge rival protests, celebrations, whatever you want to call them, are currently underway. Tens upon tens of thousands of Egyptians have been showing their support on one hand for the military in Tahrir Square. You see them there on the right.
And then, on the left, what you see is Nasr City and supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsy demanding he be returned to office.
Mr. Morsy will remain jailed for at least the next 15 days, authorities formally charging him, accusing him of murder as well as conspiring to conduct a prison break. They're linked to a 2011 prison incident in which Morsy and other Muslim Brotherhood members were freed.
Let's remind you just briefly how Egypt has arrived at this point. On June 30th, that was the first anniversary of President Morsy's election win, huge protests took place in Tahrir Square and, as a matter of fact, across Egypt, protests demanding his ouster.
And then, the very next day, the Egyptian military tells the civilian government it has 48 hours to meet the demands of the people or it says it will step in. Then, July 3rd, President Morsy ousted by the military. The head of Egypt's Supreme Constitutional Court was sworn in as interim president the following day.
Now, in the weeks since then, more than 100 people, most of them Morsy supporters, have been killed in violent street clashes. All right, let's talk about this and all of the dimensions of it with two Egyptians who have very different views on the crisis.
The first, now, joining us from London is Mona al Qazzaz. She's spokeswoman for the Muslim Brotherhood. We hoped to be joined by a member of the liberal movement that called for Mr. Morsy's ouster, there, from Cairo. He's having some problems getting in.
But let me begin, Mona al Qazzaz, and just ask you about the charges that you have heard today against Mohamed Morsy. As I understand it -- and you can correct me if I'm wrong here -- he had only been in prison for one day, 24 hours, when that jailbreak took place. What happened?
MONA AL QAZZAZ, SPOKESWOMAN, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD: The charges and accusations brought today are laughable, to be honest. President Morsy has been kidnapped by the military Junta for over three weeks now, since the day the coup -- the military coup was orchestrated.
He, along with nine of his senior aids, including my own brother, who is his secretary for foreign affairs, have been kidnapped, incommunicado, no one knows where they are, in what conditions they're being kept, and why.
Initially, the Egyptian authorities said they were kept for their own safety, but now it seems that they detained them first and then charged them second. We find the accusations actually based on false evidence and fabricated evidence.
The actual incident you're mentioning is on the 28th of January is when Mubarak illegally detained political prisoners, and President Morsy himself didn't go out of prison. He actually phoned the police and said the people -- the policemen are letting me out, what should I do?
It's actually -- it was part of what had happened in January 2011 under the emergency law is the illegal detention of President Morsy along with other political prisoners back then.
CLANCY: All right now. Let's fast-forward to today. Because hopefully there's going to be some kind of a transparent process. It's very hard to predict what happens next in Egypt. As you have noted, the military is very firmly in control of the way that things are unfolding now.
The biggest question, I think, in a lot of people's minds is how is your group, the Muslim Brotherhood, going to respond? Are you going to take place -- take part in politics? Are you going to try to join in the effort to rewrite a constitution, to reassemble -- to put together a cabinet, all of these other things? Or are you going to just stay in the streets and stay out of it?
QAZZAZ: The -- Egypt has since January 2011, Egypt has gone through democratic reform. For the first time, Egyptians went to the ballot boxes and chose their parliaments with both chambers, chose their president --
CLANCY: Yes, but what are you going to do now? Mona?
QAZZAZ: -- and voted for the referendum. Yes?
CLANCY: What are you going to do now?
QAZZAZ: What we're going to -- So they are killing a democracy we've built. They are killing the democracy, the biggest democracy in the Middle East. They're killing our dream as Egyptians, the dreams that we went out on January 25th, they're taking it by the power of the bullet. That is what they've done.
The military stepped in and the opposition that failed to win through the ballot boxes came on the back of the tanks, and that is what we're seeing. What we're seeing now is a military coup in every single textbook, this is how a military coup is defined, and the military stepped in to take power.
What we're going to do is --
CLANCY: OK --
QAZZAZ: -- we're going to peacefully demand our right, our legitimate right of having a democratic Egypt. We only --
CLANCY: OK, Mona. I'm going to come back to you --
QAZZAZ: -- been peaceful, only peaceful.
CLANCY: -- I'm going to come back to you in just a minute, but I want to bring in our other guest, who's managed to arrive there in Cairo. He's Ahmed Hawary and he is with the June 30th Front. That was the movement that demanded President Morsy's ouster.
And Ahmed, I just want to ask you, how much is your movement depending on the Muslim Brotherhood to come in and join you as Egyptians, both of you, as Egyptians to build the path forward? Or do you want them to stay out?
AHMED HAWARY, SPOKESMAN, JUNE 30 FRONT: Well, first of all, thank you for having me and I'm sorry I was late. There was no foothold in the streets. Everybody -- all Egyptians are down in the streets protesting against terrorism and violent dissension.
Yes, the June 30th Front and most of the Revolutionary movement are pushing forward, all calling for the Muslim Brotherhood to be included and all calling to reconciliation.
We want them to be -- we recognize the Muslim Brotherhood and their support groups as part of the Egyptian people and we want them to be part of the democracy. But --
CLANCY: OK, now, let me ask you this --
HAWARY: -- they have to recognize that --
CLANCY: -- the tough question here --
HAWARY: -- the fault is not with the army.
CLANCY: -- and it's good that you said that, and I appreciate it, and I think everybody appreciates it, but the tough thing here is, if you're going to support democracy, are you going to support a military trial of Mohamed Morsy on charges that appear to be specious at best?
How do you conspire with a militant group when you've only bee in jail for 24 hours and you didn't know you were going there?
HAWARY: OK. Nobody's supporting any military trials, and I don't think Mohamed Morsy will be actually subjected to a military trial. He has been detained now, and we are calling for a local detention of all the Muslim Brotherhood leaders. Either they have committed crimes that fall under the rule of law or not. If not, they should be released.
If they are found that they are in questionable position under the law, they should be tried fairly under the jurisdiction of civil courts.
CLANCY: All right. Mona -- Mona wants to break in here.
HAWARY: Nobody's calling for Mr. Morsy --
CLANCY: Mona has something to say. Mona?
QAZZAZ: Two points, please. There are over 35 rallies that went all over Egypt, not only Cairo. The 35 rallies, hundreds of thousands of Egyptians came out against the military coup, came out against the rule of military of Egypt.
Walking down the streets of Egypt, you see the pictures of Sisi, General Sisi all over the walls, plastered all over the walls of Cairo and most of the other cities in Egypt. You'll see that it is a typical military coup.
What Sisi -- what General Sisi did two days ago was a populist speech that we've heard before from Gadhafi, we're hearing from al-Assad in Syria, we're hearing this populist speech that's actually undermining our intellect as Egyptians.
Another point I want to make is that we've only seen violence and terrorism on the other side. Only our protesters were targeted. We've always announced where the dem -- where our marches and rallies are going to through --
HAWARY: I'm sorry, I don't know if this is a question or a statement.
QAZZAZ: They're actually going to be --
CLANCY: OK, no -- it's -- that's a statement.
HAWARY: You're questioning me something --
CLANCY: But Ahmed, you can reply.
HAWARY: Well, first of all, I -- you've seen millions of people -- there is no way any kind of institution or any kind of party or political movement that would enforce on millions and millions of people to rally down with pictures of whoever they want to support.
The main problem that we're facing politically right now is that the Muslim Brotherhood, throughout the three weeks -- the last three weeks -- they're not subjecting their speech towards Egyptians.
If they were subjecting their speech towards Egyptians, they would have been apologetic and understanding that their problem is not with the military, it is with the Egyptian people that impeached Mohamed Morsy.
The problem is that their speech is directed towards the international community --
QAZZAZ: It's really interesting using the word "impeached" in your --
HAWARY: -- and that's it.
QAZZAZ: It's a very, very interesting view --
HAWARY: And there's a subjecting all their --
CLANCY: Let him finish, Mona.
HAWARY: -- animosity, all their problems against Sisi, and their support -- and they support the argument that it's only Sisi that they're against.
So mainly the problem is the people that are frustrated with their movement for the past three weeks and the people that are frustrated with the non-apologetic speech from the Muslim Brotherhood and the deniability that they are causing -- that they are the cause of this situation, they are the cause of the problem.
The people have organically rallied towards and have the pictures of Sisi, who the Muslim Brotherhood have subjected as the only person against it, and that, as a natural effect -- viewed through the speech of the Muslim Brotherhood.
CLANCY: OK. OK, let's give Mona --
HAWARY: I did not --
CLANCY: Let's -- I'm going to get a question to Mona, now.
HAWARY: -- Sisi's pictures. I do not control the people and Sisi does not control the people.
CLANCY: All right. OK. We got it. We got it. Ahmed, we got it. Mona, let me put the question to you, then: doesn't Mohamed Morsy, doesn't the Muslim Brotherhood bear some of the blame? I don't think anybody could have rallied millions of people to come out to sign petitions and say, this government has to go. They made mistakes, didn't they? Serious mistakes.
QAZZAZ: Just -- I want to get back to one of the points --
CLANCY: No, I want you to get to the answer to the question, Mona, please.
QAZZAZ: So, the answer to the question is, no one -- so that -- we can go into political debates whether this is better to be done or this is better to be done. This is open to political debate, but these are two separate issues.
There's an issue of the performance of the Morsy government, and there's an issue of a military coup. Our democracy that we've been building since January 25th has been jeopardized by this military --
CLANCY: Millions of people said it wasn't a democracy you were building, they said it was all about the Muslim Brotherhood consolidating power. That's what this is about, Mona. That's what this is about. Do you not acknowledge the Muslim Brotherhood seized too much power, took too much for itself?
QAZZAZ: The estimate of the Muslim Brotherhood are --
CLANCY: Limited democracy?
QAZZAZ: For the hundreds of thousands on the street against the military coup, the estimation is that 10 to 12 percent actually belong to the Muslim Brotherhood or are associated to the Muslim Brotherhood. We're actually seeing hundreds of thousands of Egyptians who realize that they were misled by the military Junta that took over power in Egypt by the force of the tanks and the bullets.
Another point I want to make is that the leader of his party, el- Dostour Party, actually mentioned on the next day when the coup was orchestrated said "We convinced Western powers to forcibly oust President Morsy" --
HAWARY: I'm sorry -- I'm sorry, these are false accusations.
QAZZAZ: So he is the first to mention -- so this is in "The New York Times," this was his, ElBaradei's --
HAWARY: I apologize, but we have --
CLANCY: Let's let -- Ahmed -- you get the final word here, OK? Ahmed, go ahead.
HAWARY: OK. We have millions in the streets. We have millions of people in the streets that are rallying against the Muslim Brotherhood and are again rallying against terrorism and against violence.
We have not seen a single speech from the Muslim Brotherhood towards the Egyptian people to apologize for the problems, to recognize the Egyptian people's needs, to understand the situation, any kind of remorse. All their speech is towards the international community.
They have reduced democracy into a ballot box. Democracy is due political process. If you're the president through a ballot box, I respect you, but there has no been -- there has never been due political process.
The first commandment, the first thing that we wanted from Mohamed Morsy is to install a parliament, to install a due political process. So if he did any policy that is sectarian, we can object to it in a very formal manner.
But he has deprived us of any political -- any channel, any communication channels that we can object to whatever he's doing. So basically --
CLANCY: All right, Ahmed. All right, Ahmed -- I've got a question for both of you. I've got a question for both of you, and Mona let me being by asking you this question. Are you willing to work with Ahmed? Are you willing to sit down and say, "I'm an Egyptian, you're an Egyptian, all right. If we made some mistakes, fine, let's fix it here"?
QAZZAZ: We're all free Egyptians. All the free Egyptians of Egypt want the better future for Egypt. What's been happening very since, and in response to Ahmed's point, is that they are getting -- they are preferring the bullets over the ballots. They're actually destroying the institution of democracy we had.
They are actually destroying the -- General Sisi is actually saying -- has assigned himself a super constitutional position by deciding where and what is the will of the people. He's mentioning millions, and we all know now that Tahrir Square can't take over 500,000. We're actually seeing that there are millions of people all over the provinces of Egypt. But it's not a numbers game now --
CLANCY: Both sides -- OK -- I know -- I know both sides have a lot of supporters.
QAZZAZ: -- it's all about how to get fair representation.
CLANCY: We've seen the street demonstrations. I can put up the live pictures. You both have a lot of supporters. The question is whether or not you're willing to work with one another. Ahmed, are you willing to work with Mona and the Muslim Brotherhood to ensure --
HAWARY: I -- we --
CLANCY: -- that they are included?
HAWARY: The June 30th Front --
CLANCY: Go ahead.
HAWARY: Of course. June 30th Front and everybody in the government and everybody in the streets and everybody in the revolutionary government has said we want to work side-by-side again. We are against exclusion.
Muslim Brotherhood's policy were exclusion. We're not -- we're going to be the better people, we're going to take the high road. We want them to be included, but on one premise: anybody that has hands are tarnished in blood should be tried by law. Anybody that's incited violence should be tried by law.
The Muslim Brotherhood leaders who were not involved in incitation of violence or supporting or financing terrorism --
CLANCY: What kind of trial should they have, Ahmed? Are they going to be --
HAWARY: -- I welcome. The people in the streets are welcome.
CLANCY: -- are they going to be completely transparent? There's a real appearance here with the military --
HAWARY: Of course.
CLANCY: -- bringing charges, this is politics.
HAWARY: I want to --
QAZZAZ: I wonder how --
HAWARY: I want to answer the question, please.
CLANCY: All right. Let him answer. Let him answer, Mona, then you get a turn.
HAWARY: I've plotted against Mubarak for four years and -- I'm sorry, I need to answer this, please. Very simple. We have been patient in a very transparent trial against Mohamed Hosni Mubarak and we will be as patient in a trial against Morsy and his -- his cabinet that has wrong the Egyptian people. We are --
CLANCY: All right. Now -- Mona -- let Mona have --
HAWARY: We are going to subject him to a legal trial --
CLANCY: Let Mona have her say, Ahmed. Let Mona have her say.
HAWARY: This is our rights.
QAZZAZ: The opposition that is now in power came on the back of the tanks. Those tanks have violated the rights of Egyptians and committed heinous crimes, starting with the Copts in Maspiro in November 2011 -- the 28 Copts that were -- Egyptian Christians who were killed, and also the 51 Egyptians who were killed in front of the Republican Guard earlier this month.
We're seeing violations of human rights that are taking place --
HAWARY: And there are 200 Egyptians that are being killed --
QAZZAZ: If we look at President Morsy himself --
HAWARY: -- at the hands of Muslim Brotherhood right now.
QAZZAZ: -- he's being detained beyond his --
HAWARY: Who are talking on behalf of these people? Who are talking on behalf of the people with the bombs?
QAZZAZ: -- who are looking at President Morsy -- excuse me, but let me continue, please.
HAWARY: We're talking on behalf of the people with the bombs that are --
QAZZAZ: Excuse me. We're seeing hundreds -- what's happened now, this opposition, now, is indebted to the military and will not hold it accountable for the crimes they've committed against human rights and against the peaceful protesters who've taken to the streets to exercise --
HAWARY: We are indebted to the Egyptian people.
CLANCY: All right. Let me ask you something. Is some -- is there anybody -- is there anybody in Egypt that you two could agree on to lead the way forward?
QAZZAZ: I personally won't agree for the military Junta --
CLANCY: To make the decisions?
HAWARY: The Egyptian people. I would agree on the Egyptian people.
QAZZAZ: -- take over power.
CLANCY: What we have at the squares, it's chaos!
QAZZAZ: I won't agree in the representation --
HAWARY: Equal representation. Everybody.
QAZZAZ: -- of the military to overtake the power. The military should not be in power. This is an appointed minister of defense. He is not --
HAWARY: Please, Mona, subject your speech to the Egyptian people.
QAZZAZ: -- a democratic representation of Egypt --
HAWARY: You have wronged the Egyptian people. Please speak to the Egyptian people.
QAZZAZ: It's not for him to decide --
CLANCY: Ahmed -- Ahmed, do you have the name of a politician --
HAWARY: You're simplifying the military.
CLANCY: Mohamed ElBaradei? You know? Do you have the name of a politician who should be taking over here --
HAWARY: Mohamed ElBaradei, I trust him and I do trust him entirely --
CLANCY: -- to restore the confidence?
HAWARY: I trust Mohamed ElBaradei entirely that his agenda will be inclusion, his agenda will be reconciliation. But the Muslim Brotherhood has to start speaking to the people, not speaking to the foreign media or the international community --
CLANCY: All right.
HAWARY: -- or about the army. Speak to the people.
CLANCY: Ahmed, I want to than you very much --
HAWARY: The people are the ones who --
CLANCY: Ahmed Hawary, and I want to thank Mona al Qazzaz, spokeswoman for the Muslim Brotherhood, for being with us tonight. It's a contentious issue. Thousands and thousands of people are out in the streets. The whole world is watching, and I hope we find a peaceful way forward. Thank you both.
Now, I've got to ask you, our viewers, what do you think about all of this? The team at CONNECT THE WORLD wants to hear from you. Check it out, facebook.com/CNNconnect. Have your say, and I know a lot of you will.
Coming up after this short break on CONNECT THE WORLD, Snoop Dogg's new character as we wrap up some of the movies hitting cinemas near you this weekend.
CLANCY: Welcome back, I'm Jim Clancy, you're with CONNECT THE WORLD. Now, we told you at the very outset of the show we would be looking at how the world's population is expected to hit 11 billion people by century's end, still a long way to go before the end of the century.
Our debate on Egypt obviously ran over, but it was so interesting, we didn't want to cut it, and so therefore, we're going to push back our analysis of what's happening on our planet, what the scientists tell us, and in the meantime, give you your fix -- your weekly fix, I should say -- of all things entertainment.
You know, Hugh Jackman is back as that famous character Wolverine. The first movie was a flop, but there have been plenty of other creatures hitting the silver screen, including -- get this -- a rapping snail? Check this out.
HUGH JACKMAN AS LOGAN, "THE WOLVERINE": What I am can't be undone.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hugh Jackman is back in superhero guise this week.
HARUHIKO YAMANOUCHI AS YASHIDA, "THE WOLVERINE": Don't be so sure.
ANDERSON: As "The Wolverine" opens around the world.
JACKMAN: Wolverine has always been one of the more interesting, more layered, developed characters from comic book history, and when he came about, if you think about the early 60s when he was first invented, he was the first anti-hero. There were not comic book characters like him.
ANDERSON: The action's largely set in Japan, and the cast includes a number of famous faces from the Japanese film and fashion worlds.
HIROYUKI SANADA, ACTOR: He held the famous three claws, and I'm holding two swords. Not CGI. So, if I hit him, getting injured. And I thought if --
SANADA: -- get him injured, a lot of Hugh's fans will hill me, so a lot of pressure there. But I'm so happy totally no injuries.
ANDERSON: As a skilled martial artist himself, Sanada was able to encourage model-turned-actress Rila Fukushima during her fight scenes.
RILA FUKUSHIMA, ACTRESS: We have three weeks training before we start filming, so it was really hard, but Hiro is like sword master.
FUKUSHIMA AS YUKIO, "THE WOLVERINE": This sword is hundreds of years old. It was named "Danza" by the first samurai who used it. "Danza" means "separator" in Japanese. The ideal weapon for separating head and limb from body.
FUKUSHIMA: So, I got a lot of advice in how I use Japanese swords. It was challenging, but it was a great experience.
ANDERSON: And the film also gave a first acting opportunity to another top model, Tao Okamoto.
TAO OKAMOTO, ACTOR: I even said when I got phone call from my agent, she said, "We've got an audition." I said, "I'm not interested in acting." I really didn't plan to act before, but she said, "Are you crazy? You're going to be the girlfriend of Hugh Jackman!" I said, "OK!"
ANDERSON: And a warning for those of you who like to rush out of the cinema before the end credits, you'll miss a teaser for the next X-Men film, "Days of Future Past."
SANADA AS SHINGEN, "THE WOLVERINE": What kind of monster are you?
JACKMAN AS LOGAN: The Wolverine.
STEVE CARELL AS GRU, "DESPICABLE ME 2": Gru's back in the game with cool cars!
ANDERSON: There's plenty of choice for those of you who prefer your movies animated. "Despicable Me 2" provides another outing for Universal's oddball crimefighting characters.
Then there's the Smurfs. It's going to be difficult to ignore the blue creatures and their human fans in the weeks ahead, with Sony following up its recent global Smurfs Day mayhem with the release of "The Smurfs 2."
JONATHAN WINTERS AS PAPA SMURF, "THE SMURFS 2": We've got to find Smurfette! Are you coming with us?
NEIL PATRICK HARRIS AS PATRICK, "THE SMURFS 2": Is a Smurf's butt blue?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You tell me!
ANDERSON: And if you really can't get your fill of the Smurfs, you'll be delighted to know the final part of the trilogy is just a couple of years away.
KATY PERRY AS SMURFETTE, "THE SMURFS 2": Holy Smurf!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make some noise for Snoop Dogg!
ANDERSON: Meanwhile, Dreamworks have recruited rapper-turned-reggae star Snoop Dogg to make both acting and musical contributions to "Turbo," the story of a garden snail with a dream to race in the Indianapolis 500.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those guys are crazy!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those guys are awesome!
SNOOP DOGG AS SMOOVE MOVE, "TURBO": I'm moving so fast, the whole world's going in slow motion baby!
SNOOP DOGG: The attraction was that they had wrote this for me and that it was a Dreamworks project, and I've always wanted to be connected with something as big as a Dreamworks project, and to know that they had wrote something for me specifically, it was an opportunity that I couldn't pass on. It was something that I had to do.
And then I felt like, this was a great movie, it was a feel-good story. I'd seen the script, I'd seen what it was all about, it wasn't just a kid movie that was about mumbo jumbo, but it had a real substance, value to it. And it was like, you know what? I want to be a part of this, because I feel like this could really tell a story and inspire some kids to do something with themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the first time, we have a crop duster in the race!
ANDERSON: And finally, Disney gets into the act with the release of "Planes."
DANE COOK AS DUSTY CROPHOPPER, "PLANES": I'm afraid of heights.
SINBAD AS ROPER, "PLANES": That airplane needs some help. You all know that, right?
ANDERSON: And if you get a feeling of deja-vu, that's because it's a spinoff from Pixar's popular "Cars" films, launching another franchise which, if it takes off, will run to three films.
So, there's a surplus of CGI in cinemas in the weeks ahead. Until next time, I'm Becky Anderson with CNN Preview.
CLANCY: OK. We got the picture, what's going to be on the big screen. Well, in tonight's Parting Shots, a baby girl who thinks a dog eating popcorn is just the funniest thing ever. Watch this.
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(BABY LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just loves it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: It doesn't take much to amuse that little girl. But hey, whatever keeps them happy. I'm Jim Clancy, that was CONNEC THE WORLD. Thanks for being with us.
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(BABY LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY)
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