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Another Juror in George Zimmerman Trial Interviewed; Train Derailment in Spain Examined; Weiner Drops in the Polls;
Aired July 26, 2013 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: New controversy for one of the most popular shows in America being accused of racism. Ten former "American Idol" contestants are now suing the show asking for $25 million each. Do they have a case? We have details about their surprising accusations coming up.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: But first up, he got away with murder. That's what one juror is saying, that bombshell came from juror b-29 in the George Zimmerman trial. The second juror to break her silence says she's so torn up about the verdict she feels she owes an apology to Trayvon Martin's parents. Pamela Brown has been tracking these latest developments. Pamela?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. The second juror to come forward is not only speaking out, she's also showing her face. In an interview with ABC news juror B-29 says being a member of the jury that acquitted George Zimmerman of second-degree murder in the death of interest of interest weighs on her so much she has trouble sleeping and eating, and she says she owes Trayvon's parents an apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUROR B29: George Zimmerman got away from murder, but you can't get away from god.
BROWN: Anguish and apologetic. Juror B-29, going by the name Maddy, told ABC that she favored convicting George Zimmerman of second-degree murder.
JUROR B29: I'm the only minority and I felt like I let a lot of people down.
BROWN: Maddy says it was the all-female jury's interpretation of the law that ultimately led them to acquitting Zimmerman.
JUROR B29: For myself, he's guilty. But as the law was read to me, if it you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't find, you can't say he's guilty.
BROWN: Anderson Cooper spoke exclusively to juror B-37 soon after the verdict how they got to a not guilty verdict.
JUROR B37: After hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the law and reading it over and over and over again, we decided there's just no way, other place to go.
BROWN: After more than 16 hours of deliberations, Maddy says she struggled with the proof to have an picket.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you go from in nine hours from feeling he was guilty of second-degree murder and not guilty?
JUROR B29: A lot of us wanted to find something bad, something that we could connect to the law.
BROWN: Maddy concedes she still struggles with the verdict and the public outcry that followed.
JUROR B29: I literally fell on my knees and broke down, my husband was holding me, I was screaming and crying, and I kept saying to myself I feel like I killed him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you like to say to Trayvon's parents?
JUROR B29: I would like to apologize because I feel like I let them down.
BROWN: And in response Trayvon Martin's mother called Maddy's revelations devastating and released this statement saying "This new information challenges our nation once again to do everything we can to make sure that this never happens to another child." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Pamela.
Let's bring in some legal analysis to figure out what this means and figuring out how this verdict came to be, Sunny Hostin, former prosecutor and CNN legal analyst and Paul Callan, CNN legal analyst and defense attorney. I'm getting tired of introducing you guys. You're obviously family. Thank you for helping us with this. The first thing he want to look at here you sat in the courtroom the entire time. You were not surprised that this woman was the holdout. Why?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No. I mean I observed her every single day. Clearly she was the only non-white juror. She was a mother of eight children. I was there for jury selection as well, and she spoke very eloquently about wanting to serve on the jury. And so I watched her closely, and I thought that she got it. She seemed to understand Rachel Jeantel's testimony and during the prosecution's rebuttal argument I saw her nodding in agreement. And that usually tells me as a former prosecutor she's with the state on this.
CUOMO: Was it a mistake the verdict or was it the only choice under the law?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think it was a mistake. We'll see a lot of this, this is remorse sometimes jurors feel later on when they go back to their communities and people are saying how could you have come back with guilty in this case? and they try to rethink the decision and come to this conclusion.
But she focuses on the interview the law wouldn't permit her to vote guilty because there was no intent to commit murder. Well, the charge in manslaughter is an intent to commit an act, not murder, an act that causes death. So if they just read the instructions, clearly you could have voted yes, guilty, if you found the evidence was there.
CALLAN: I think in the end she didn't find the evidence was there to support the law.
HOSTIN: I completely disagree. When you look at the jury instructions the jury instructions clearly said, Chris, the state does not have to prove that George Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon Martin. In that interview she said in order to find him guilty of manslaughter we had to find when he left his home he intended to kill Trayvon Martin. That is a fundamental misunderstanding of manslaughter.
CUOMO: We should give her a little leeway, she may be confused about which law she's talking about. This is confusing stuff.
HOSTIN: I don't know. She said what she said. I don't think we can say she was confused.
CUOMO: But that would have been the right analysis for the murder charge.
HOSTIN: For the murder charge, but not for manslaughter. They didn't have to prove intent.
CALLAN: I read the charge which she had in front of her, intent to commit an act which causes death.
CUOMO: We were talking about the jury instructions. I was shouted down roundly saying Chris these instructions are always like this.
HOSTIN: I said that to you.
CUOMO: I wasn't going to throw you under the bus because you're stronger than me. We may not have heard it yet it's what I don't hear her discuss. I believe this part of the analysis may have been moot in that room because no matter whether they thought he was guilty of murder or man slaughter it still came down to whether it was justifiable, and I didn't hear her ask or answer about how she felt about self-defense. Why? Because if she felt that, yes, he was guilty of manslaughter but he had to do what he did, he had to do that intentional act.
CALLAN: That's not manslaughter. That's the law.
HOSTIN: But it's interesting, Paul and Chris, she did say when asked about the screams which I think was the bedrock of the defense case arguing that George Zimmerman was screaming for his life because he was in fear of eminent death. She said I didn't focus on that, and that is striking to me.
CALLAN: There was a follow-up this morning with more details and I listened to it. She said basically she listened to the screams but in the end she couldn't decide whose extremes it consisted of.
CUOMO: Also we have to remember this. Why do we keep talking about it? Because people aren't getting it, they're not satisfied. They think something went wrong in there but what we're hearing from two different jurors makes one common point -- they weren't sure about what happened and whether it mattered under the law, and in our system that's called reasonable doubt and you're supposed to acquit?
CALLAN: Two things I'm saying, yes, that's part of it, you're supposed to acquit. And secondly it's the group dynamics of jury deliberations. In every case you have one or two jurors with one point of view, others with another point. They had an argument back and forth. And it's hard if you're a single juror talking with five other human beings who say your position doesn't make any sense. The movie "12 Angry Men" where the one guy converts everyone else. It almost never happens unless there's a big block of supporters. So it's really hard for jurors to move the majority.
HOSTIN: I agree but what I'm hearing more and more is a fundamental misunderstanding of the jury instructions. And you and I, Chris, talked about it. As I read it as a lawyer with my legal hat on,, they're standard jury instructions, they're very clear, perhaps clear to me because I read them so many times in practice. But when I listen to the jurors, I think the lawyers failed these jurors, I think perhaps the judge failed these jurors because they didn't have a clear understanding of the law and applying the facts to the law.
CUOMO: Do you think it would have made a difference if the instruction was different even if they still had to get to those final moments and whether or not they thought that George Zimmerman was reasonably in fear of serious injury? I keep coming back to that because if they believed just that, then they have to acquit.
HOSTIN: I absolutely think it would have been different especially because we know that they asked for this clarification on manslaughter and they didn't really get it so he were struggling with the law.
CALLAN: At the end we have this blank period of time where the actual encounter between the two individuals takes place and it's just not there. The evidence wasn't there as to what precisely happened. That's classic reasonable doubt. It's very hard for a jury to speculate and say we're going to draw all these inferences and conflict him of manslaughter.
CUOMO: You heard jurors saying we were trying to find him guilty of something, which is also a little frightening on a different level. They're supposed to be in there seeing what it is, not having an intent to convict.
First of all thank you, Sunny and Paul. Appreciate the perspective. We keep talking about this because there's confusion. And we want you to know one thing, don't blame these jurors because they're saying things we heard often. If anything they had a heightened sense of responsibility in this case. That's objectively true about them. We hear the two jurors saying the same thing, these people tried to do their best. Kate?
BOLDUAN: Chris, thank you.
New developments in the Spanish passenger derailment. The driver is now formally under investigation, and police are waiting to question him. And we learned a woman from Arlington, Virginia, is among the at least 78 people who died in that crash. Just look at that video. CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us live from Santiago de Compostela, Spain. So Karl, what is the latest from the ground?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, we've heard even in the last few moments that things have moved on with the train driver situation. The chief of police Jamie Iglesias has confirmed now that he has been formally detained and is accused of charges relating to the accident. We don't know the specifics of that yet but hope to hear more later. But of course investigators still pouring away trying to piece together other clues as well.
PENHAUL: The heart-stopping moment of impact caught on security camera. It's a difficult scene to watch as the train speeds around the bend, flies off the tracks, and slams into concrete. Flames engulf one of the cars, another ripped in half.
IVETTE RUBIERIA, IREPORTER: It was horrific, it was so griming, it was so surreal. It felt like a horror movie.
PENHAUL: The crash Wednesday killed at least a third of the passengers on board in the town of Santiago de Compostela. This morning we're learning that one American was killed, Anna Maria Cordoba, a Virginia mother traveling with her family, according to the catholic diocese of Arlington. She was headed to meet her son who just reached a pilgrimage in Spain. Her husband and daughter were injured but survived.
MICHAEL DONOHUE, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I can only imagine how horrible it must have been for their son, you know, waiting for them to arrive. It's just such a horrible story, brought home very closely to us because of Anna Maria's death.
PENHAUL: Emergency crews and fellow passengers pulled victims from the wreckage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody started running down with whatever they could and starting hitting at the cars to see if they could get the people out.
PENHAUL: Dozens remain hospitalized in critical condition, families of the dead overtaken by grief at the local morgue. Spanish officials said on state television that the tragedy appears to be linked to the train going too fast. Some Spanish media estimates suggest the train was moving at 118 miles per hour, more than double the speed limit on that tight turn portion of the track.
PENHAUL: Now, police and investigators will not just be relying on testimony from the driver of that train. We also understand now the judges have possession of the black box from the locomotives to see if that can also give clues about why this accident took place. Back to you in the studio, Chris and Kate.
BOLDUAN: Karl, thanks so much. Just so horrific.
CUOMO: I know, and that scene took so long to understand. Karl's been there throughout. Thank you for the reporting from him.
BOLDUAN: The investigation is starting to pick up now.
CUOMO: And we have a lot of news for you this morning, a development in another major case we've been watching, the terrible, horrible thing in Cleveland that happened to those three young people. Maybe a move in that case.
PEREIRA: Maybe a move indeed. Accused kidnaper, Cleveland kidnaper Aerial Castro could accept a plea deal today. Prosecutors are offering him life in prison without parole. The deal allows his to avoid the death penalty and allows his victims to avoid a painful trial. Castro is accused of torturing and raping the women for more than a decade.
An Egyptian judge has ordered former president Mohamed Morsy to spend 15 days in jail. The charge, collaborating with Hamas in a 2011 plot to break Muslim Brotherhood inmates out of prison. This could end up being a violent day in Cairo. The head of Egypt's armed forces calling for demonstrations against terrorists. Many observers believe that is a veiled threat against pro-Morsy demonstrators.
Pope Francis bringing his message of hope to prisoners in Rio this morning. He'll then have lunch with a group of young. During the beachfront service Thursday he was Brazilian street talk, talking about 1 million worshippers, saying put on faith, saying faith help cures materialism and unhappiness.
New this morning, information about Monday's hard landing at LaGuardia Airport. The NTSB says the Southwest Airlines jet landed nose down, the front landing gear collapsing after it hit the ground. CNN's Rene Marsh has more on this investigation.
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Federal investigators revealing dramatic new details about the hard landing of Southwest flight 345 at New York's LaGuardia Airport. When it comes to landing, the 737's rear landing wheels touch first, and front wheels second. But investigators say that's not how it happened here. The front wheels came down first and couldn't withstand the weight of the plane, ending with a 19 second skid. KEVIN HIATT, PRESIDENT, FLIGHT SAFETY FOUNDATION: The normal approach would be an aircraft coming in like this and then actually touching down and then going like that straight across the runway.
MARSH: I just saw you tip that nose up a bit. So it should always remain upward?
HIATT: It should be up, and that nose gear be the last to such down.
MARSH: What's troubling, in the final four seconds before touchdown the NTSB said the plane shifted from two degrees nose up, to 3 degrees nose down.
Southwest tells CNN the landing scenario the NTSB describes in not accordance with our operating procedures.
Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.
PERIERA: That investigation will continue.
New this morning as well, the iconic Lincoln Memorial in the Nation's Capitol has been vandalized. U.S. park police say someone splattered green paint on the statue of the former president and the floor of the memorial. The memorial will remain closed until the mess can be cleaned up. There are surveillance cameras around the memorial, but there is no word on whether they caught whoever is responsible for that.
An 84-year-old Powerball winner is using some of her winners to help out her hometown high school. That's Gloria Mackenzie . She won a record $590 million jackpot and she is now going to spend almost $2 million of her win to repair the school's leaky roof in East Millinocket, Maine. The superintendent says Gloria's gift will actually help keep that school from shutting down. The repair were going to be quite costly; some $1.8 million to fix it. And she felt like she wanted to do something good for the school board. I think it's really wonderful.
BOLDUAN: I like it.
PERIERA: Great generosity.
CUOMO: People hear you won all this money. It's never enough but most people don't do anything like this.
PERIERA: She's had wisdom in her years.
BOLDUAN: We can all learn from that.
We're tracking the weather, Tropical Storm Dorian continues its slow march across the Atlantic, and then there's Flossie to keep an eye on as well. Indra Petersons is watching it all. So, Indra where are they headed?
INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hi. Yeah, fun names out there, huh? We definitely have Dorian. Here is the piece of good news. Dorian weakened as expected. You can actually see the current winds now 50 (ph) miles per hour, the steady winds in reference point there yesterday were 60 miles per hour. It's obvious just to look at, you can see that structure falling apart right there and that is good news. It still has a lot of dry air ahead of it, it will continue to weaken, but none the less, we still have it holding together in that official forecast track.
What the latest cone looks like you can tell there's a difference between today and yesterday. The bad news is the track is farther down to the south so that could impact the islands. Still a weak tropical storm by Monday 45 miles per hour north of Puerto Rico. Therefore it will potentially hit Turks and Caicos, starting to strengthen at 50 miles per hour.
On the other side of the ocean, the pacific ocean, they were talking about Flossie, is strengthening but will weaken before potentially making landfall in Hawaii. Just one mile per hour over tropical storm strengh, so that's a good news again. We're not talking about strong hurricanes just yet.
BOLDUAN: Something we have to watch into next week.
CUOMO: What happened to E? D is Dorian, F is Flossie, where isE?
PETERSONS: I have to go back and think. Erin is next in Florida. Ernesto?
BOLDUAN: Indra's now making up names.
CUOMO: That works for me. Ernesto's good.
BOLDUAN: It's a good, strong name.
CUOMO: It was a fourth name on the royal's baby choice list, Ernesto.
Coming up on NEW DAY, Anthony Weiner guess what happened to his polls after the latest revelations, they slipped and we'll tell you what Weiner's sexting partner Sydney Leathers is saying about it.
BOLDUAN: It could be the smoking gun in the Aaron Hernandez murder case. The new photo of the former Patrios that could show him with a weapon the night his friend was killed.
BOLDUAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY everyone. Another stunning admission from Anthony Weiner. The New York mayoral candidate revealing the number of women that he has sexted with before and after he resigned from Congress. This as the woman at the center of his latest scandal speaking publicly for the very first time. Mary Snow is live in New York with more. It's difficult to keep track of it all.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. Anthony Weiner would love more than anything to change the topic back to politics but it doesn't look like that's going to happen any time soon.
SNOW: The woman now at the center of the Anthony Weiner scandal says the best description to the former congressman is one he offered to her, himself --
SYDNEY LEATHERS, SEXTED WITH ANTHONY WEINER: He's an argumentative, perpetually horny, middle aged man.
SNOW: In an interview with "Inside Edition," Sydney Leathers talked candidly about her sexually suggestive relationship online and over the phone with Weiner last summer - a year after he resigned from Congress, and why she's speaking out now.
LEATHERS: He was making campaign promises that he had totally changed, and he was a better man now, and he learned from his mistakes, and I am proof that that is not true.
SNOW: Lisa Weiss who exchanged explicit messages with then Congressman Weiner in 2010 and 2011 doesn't blame Leathers.
LISA WEISS, EXCHANGED MESSAGES WITH WEINER: I understand to a point, yes I do, because I would speak to him about politics and then he sort of turns the conversation into a sexual thing and it becomes very flattering.
SNOW: Weiner appearing with his wife by his side admitted Tuesday to a new round of lewd exchanges with women after he got caught and left office. On Thursday for the first time he put a number on just how many women.
ANTHONY WEINER, MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I don't believe I had any more than three.
SNOW: And as for how many all together?
WEINER: It's not dozens and dozens. It is six to ten, I suppose.
SNOW: When he launched his mayoral campaign Weiner raised the possibility that other women may come forward. Now he says that's all behind him, but admitted he continues to get professional help and when asked if it's an addiction?
WEINER: I don't believe that it is. The people that I'm working with don't believe that it is.
SNOW: All of this is taking a toll on Weiner's bid to become New York City mayor. Poll taken since these latest revelations became public show a steep drop among registered Democrats. It shows Weiner 9 percentage point behind Democratic rival Christine Quinn. In June, Weiner was ahead by five points. Kate?
BOLDUAN: Mary, thanks so much. Let's talk about the poll numbers and what this could mean for Weiner's bid to become New York City's mayor. Joining me now to talk about this, Republican strategist Ana Navarro, and senior political columnist, which I always get wrong, he's now the political director of "The Daily Beast," John Avalon. Both CNN contributors. John Avlon has a morphing title at all times so I digress.
All right. Let's talk about these poll numbers first, because I know Ana has strong opinions that I'm sure she would -- wants to make known about this whole story. The poll that Mary Snow just talked about, John, first of all conducted since this latest scandal broke, "Wall Street Journal"/Marist/NBC 4 New York poll showing that Weiner's approval has dropped by nine points his ranking in the race. Christine Quinn back on top. Does that surprise you?
JOHN AVLON, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": No. I mean thank God because it shows people are paying attention, they still have some bar of decency out there somewhere. The troubling thing about that poll is he's still in second place and in the Democratic New York mayoral primary whoever gets to the top two to get to a runoff. So, technically, this guy's still in the running for the Democratic nomination. So, we're not out of the woods yet, "Mayor Danger" still a possibility of the horizon.
BOLDUAN: "Mayor Danger." Ana jump in on this, but with this thought in mind: another part of the poll that I thought was interesting the question of whether he should stay in the race or not, a slight majority of New Yorkers say he should stay, some 47 percent. What does that tell you?
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, it's frankly vexing. I would almost tell you that I think the New Yorkers might like the entertainment but I would say look put down the Long Island iced tea and take a good look at what's happening here. You have a guy who has admitted to having a number of women who he sexted that is in the double - digits and three of them, at least, after he resigned so his people that he's working with may not think or may not be telling him he's got an addiction. I don't know if he's getting therapy from Hugh Hefner.
AVLON: Reality is of course this is an addiction, this is a pathetic parade, not a redemption campaign and people recognize the simple fact that 50 years ago this guy would be standing in Times Square in a raincoat not wearing pants. It seems fancier because he has a texting device involved. This is so pathetic but sometimes the celebrity car crash people can't turn away.
BOLDUAN: Ana let me ask you this though --
NAVARRO: It's really amazing the way he had a promising political career in Congress. He flamed out over sexting. He made an amazing comeback which was jaw-dropping and he's flaming out again. You know what? Put a fork in him, Weiner is done.
BOLDUAN: That poses a real question though. Right now he says that he is not bowing out. Do you think this is something where he, is it going to take more of his number dropping further in the polls for him to drop out or do you think he's in it for the long haul?
AVLON: Clearly on some basis, he's enjoying the attention. When he walked out of the press conference there was no shame, no contrition. There was enjoyment, true narcissistic enjoyment of being on camera. He's got 45 days left for the last campaign of his life and he's going to stay in every single moment. The only people that can force them out are the voters of New York. That's democracy. That needs to get done.
BOLDUAN: There clearly are, Ana, some percentage of New York City that wants him to stay in the race.
NAVARRO: We'll have to see what the election looks like. I don't put anything past voters and little surprises me. I'm surprised Mark Sanford got reelected. I think a lot of it also has to do also with the competition. What we're seeing with the Weiners, both of them, is a need for redemption through election and I would say if you want redemption maybe you should go pray, maybe you should stop doing the wrong things you're doing. I'm not sure dragging the public through this scandal is the right way to go about this.
BOLDUAN: Let me ask you, Ana as -- from a woman's perspective in politics do you think the involvement that Huma, his wife has had, when she came out and very forcefully said he's made mistakes but I love and I forgive him. Is she helping him in the polls? Is she what's keeping him in?
NAVARRO: I think it's a double edged sword. First of all had she not be there he would have been absolute toast and couldn't continue. Her support is part of what is keeping him in there and I think she wants him to stay. Also I think it's very painful for women to see this. It makes all of us cringe and I think we resent the fact -- we're not happy at the fact that this man is putting this woman through this horrific humiliation and experience in front of public cameras twice in her life.
AVLON: Huma is the best thing that could happen to Anthony Weiner personally and professionally. And the fact that after apologizing, after that "People" magazine spread, he was still behaving in a way that could make a drunk frat boy think twice. That's what's so sad. That's what so tragic. Huma should be running for mayor, not this clown.
NAVARRO: If I was a New York voter something that would be very worrisome to me is apparently the people he sexted were political groupies that then turned into these inappropriate sexting partners. So, you want to give this guy the power of being mayor of New York?