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Teen on Trial for Stepbrother`s Murder

Aired July 31, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Breaking news tonight, as day one of a gruesome murder trial leaves the family of a 14-year-old boy who was bludgeoned to death fleeing the courtroom in tears.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live tonight.

Jurors in a Kentucky courtroom are faced with a real mystery: who is the real monster in this case? Is it the demonic dad, who has already pleaded guilty to beating this boy to death? Or is dad covering up for his own baby-faced son, who is now on trial? Or did father and son kill the 14-year-old relative together and if so, why?

Father, son and stepson/victim all lived together under the very same roof.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you set your son up to kill Trey Zwicker?


PROSEC: He was brutally murdered by Josh Gouker and Josh Young.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gouker is a total complete manipulator and liar.

GOUKER: It`s one murder, you know. It`s not like it was a whole bunch of murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just amazes me you sit there with a smirk on your face, and you smile through this whole process, knowing the pain that you caused all these people.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That guy is such a sicko. You`ll hear why in a second.

Disturbing crime-scene photos from the ditch behind a school had the family racing out of the courtroom in tears.

What really happened that day? So far we`re only getting little pieces of the puzzle. Do prosecutors have the goods to convict a very, very young-looking teenager of complicity to murder his younger step- brother? One thing is clear: the defendant`s baby face does not match the hideous nature of this crime.


WHITE: Found face down, covered in blood, where he was found his face smashed in and teeth chipped. Where he was found with his skull bashed open, his head and neck having been struck multiple times, maybe with a bat, maybe with a metal pipe.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Opening statements today. Prosecutors say the young defendant woke up a female cousin in the dead of night and told her, "Let`s go and dump the evidence."

Could the defendant`s monstrous father have told his son, "Here, here is a bloody bat and here`s some bloody clothes. Go get rid of them, kid. If they catch you, you`ll get off easy, because you`re a minor."

What`s your take on this case? Call me. Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Prosecutors are charging this innocent-looking baby-faced kid as an adult. He could go to prison for the rest of his life.

Jon Leiberman, where the heck is the evidence against this kid? We`ve heard opening statements, and we`ve heard hours of testimony. As far as I can see, no bombshell evidence against this kid.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it`s interesting, Jane. Yes, there`s no physical evidence. There`s no DNA. They don`t even know exactly what the murder weapon was.

And the other part that`s interesting is prosecutors came out in their opening and they said, "Look, we don`t know what our star witness, Mr. Gouker, is going to say." And as you well know, he has changed his story now no fewer than five times, about first throwing his son under the bus, saying he was responsible. Then, of course, ultimately taking the blame and pleading guilty to murder.

But it looks like the prosecutors are going to rely on statements, two big statements. One, they`re going to rely on statements that apparently Josh Young made to his cousin Cassie, asking her to help dispose of the clothes.

And they`re going to rely on other statements that Josh Young made to other people...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, except...

LEIBERMAN: ... apparently acknowledging his role in this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, the defense is saying Cassie -- and I don`t know, I wasn`t there. I don`t know what goes on behind closed doors. But the defense is claiming Cassie was sleeping with the defendant`s father and that the defendant basically told her to make up this story.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, I don`t know if the fact that they were doing the nasty means that she`s not credible. Look, there`s a lot of muck in this case in terms of who`s credible. This whole situation, the family at both ends is just ugly.

But there is a dead child, and not only is it clear that it was a murder, you have damning statements from -- from, you know, the younger of the two.

But also the father, in a sense, implicates his own son because he lied. And you know, it`s on the one hand good for the defense that the father is saying, "I did it, I acted alone." But it`s also, in a sense, evidence that his son was involved, too, because the cover-up is, I think, some evidence against the son.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, it`s absolutely mind-boggling to hear the monstrous ex-con, demented, pot-smoking father talk about killing his stepson, because he shows absolutely no remorse. Watch this, and then I have an exclusive guest on the other side.


GOUKER: After that, I hit him. I didn`t say nothing. I didn`t think it would be almost like this. I didn`t think that, you know -- it`s one murder. It`s not like it was a whole bunch of murders. It`s been 15 months. It`s time for it just to be over with.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you believe this guy? What a sicko: "Oh, just one murder, just one person. What`s the big deal?" I`ve never heard anything like that in my entire life.

Straight out to my exclusive guest, this young defendant`s uncle, Rodney Gunter.

Thank you for joining us, sir. First of all, I`ve got to start with your reaction to what you just heard the father of this defendant say about, "Well, it`s just one murder, no big whoop."

RODNEY GUNTER, JOSH YOUNG`S UNCLE: I think it`s disgusting. I think he`s totally orchestrated this whole thing, because Amanda, his wife, had an abortion of their child, and he`s just a monster of a person, Josh Gouker.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. And sir, do you mind looking in the camera? We`re right -- There we go, thank you, sir. Right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Now let me ask you this question: what do you think your nephew, who`s the baby-faced defendant`s role in all of this is? Do you think he was there? Do you think that...

GUNTER: I don`t think he had any role in it at all, no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, why do you think...

GUNTER: He`s maintained his innocence throughout the whole thing, and he has not changed his story one bit whatsoever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, I`m flabbergasted. After listening to hours of testimony, I have not heard any bombshell evidence. I have not -- there`s no -- the bat...

GUNTER: There is no evidence. I mean, everyone is going to find out that my nephew is innocent. I mean, he had no part in this whatsoever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think that...

GUNTER: His -- his father had nothing to do with raising that boy or anything. He was only within his custody, you know, what, maybe two months, if that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. Explain to our viewers the dad, who I call the monster, the guy with the little beard here, who says it`s no big deal just to kill one person. He had just served eight years for robbery and a violent offense, and he had just gotten out.

Now his son, the guy, he was on trial. He had been doing well at a foster family`s home. He was excelling. He was smart. He was showing that he could use computers. This guy insists to get his son back. He turns on the tears. He convinces everybody, even the social workers, "I`ve got to have my precious blood, my baby boy back."

Within two months, the stepson of this guy, who also lives in the house, the son of his wife, is killed. Is killed. And my question to you, Rodney, is that this young son of this monster really wanted to live with his dad. He thought his dad was everything. Oh, wow, a tough guy, an ex- con. Is it possible that, in a desire to impress his violent father...

GUNTER: Josh`s mom had died, you know, a few months prior to that. He really never knew his dad. He -- I guess every boy wants to have a relationship with their dad. He didn`t know the guy. He didn`t know what he was about or anything.

And I think that`s, you know, not how he looked at it, like he`s a tough guy, this, that and the other. I mean, he just really wanted family. He had no one. He was in the foster family and was doing well. I mean...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But he wanted to live with his dad. He -- the documentation is that he wanted to live with his dad, and I just want to ask you, do you think it`s possible that...

GUNTER: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... in his desire to impress his father, who was an ex-con, who was known for violence, who killed the family dog with a bat, who killed the family cat, who was accused of a variety of violent crimes, do you think in a desire to impress his father, he could have done something violent to his buddy?

GUNTER: No, I don`t think so. No. I`ve been in Josh`s life his whole life. He`s a good boy. He`s not violent, mean. He`s not no thug, gang-banger. He was an honor roll student. He was a good kid. I mean, I don`t know, actually -- you hear all these horror stories about everything that was going on in that house, and I`m not sure, you know. But I do know my nephew, and I don`t believe he had anything to do with it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, speaking of the horror stories, some of the horror stories are in-court documents, allegations that this monstrous father fed this boy, who`s on trial, and the boy who died, their step- brother, the two of them, drugs. That he put marijuana in Easter eggs. That he showed these two boys, this guy, this guy showed the two boys, impressionable boys, young teenagers, videos of himself having sex with women. I mean, it`s mind-boggling.

GUNTER: I don`t know about any of that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m saying...

GUNTER: All I can do is talk about Josh`s demeanor and who he is and what he`s about. And prior to him going to live with his father, he had never really been in any kind of trouble. He was a good kid. Loved his family. His mom died, his aunt died. I think he just really wanted family. They took his little sister, you know, and his little brother lives somewhere else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But his little sister was living there. The stepson, the one who was killed, his little sister was living there, and that`s one of the reasons why he didn`t want to get out of the home. He wanted to stay there to protect his little sister. And his mother who was married to this monster. So you`ve got a very sick family dynamic.

If I could ask you to hold on for one second, I want to go back to our panel. I want to talk to Jon Leiberman. You`ve been studying this case. To me, I have to wonder at the end of it, we just heard this kid has never been in trouble. He`s not like his dad who has pleaded guilty to killing this kid.

LEIBERMAN: Yes, you know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me throw it to Ada Young. Why on earth is the prosecution trying to charge this kid and put him on trial as an adult and put him behind bars for life?

ADA YOUNG: Jane, I think the reason why the prosecution is not backing off is because this kid has been in custody this entire time.

And the problem that I have with this case, Jane, is that there`s no physical evidence linking him. All we have is potentially just gossip and innuendo, and then we have the credibility of one man who arguably could be the worst father in the history of all mankind with a rap sheet as long as my arm. And this woman by the name of Cassie, who allegedly has sexual relations with the father, who also, my understanding, has a criminal history, as well, involving sex-related offenses.

So the prosecution at this point in time has an uphill battle. I didn`t hear any bombshell evidence, like you said, Jane, to lead me to believe that they have other evidence that they could potentially convince this jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Joshua Young is guilty. I just don`t see it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know. I was also listening for hours on end. What are we going to get to the evidence? OK? When are we going to get to the evidence? And I didn`t hear anything.

And that`s making me a little crazy, I mean, because just putting a kid on trial at this age is going to traumatize him for the rest of his life. His mother`s died of a drug overdose. His father is a monstrous ex- con, who has done horrific thinks. And there he is, looking clean-cut like some kind of Mayberry -- and then they put him on trial as a conspirator, contributor to murder.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought? Christy?

CALLER: Hey, thanks, Jane, for taking my call.

I think that they were both high that night. I think the son did go with the dad. I do not believe that the son took part in the beating. But I think the dad manipulated him enough to be there. And I think he did use him to get rid of evidence to keep himself more out of it, because when he went in, he said he didn`t do it. And there is no evidence that this, you know, 17-year-old boy beat his cousin.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he was only 15 at the time. Thank you, Christine, North Carolina. You make an excellent point. And if the boy`s only crime is to be there while his hideous father was doing something awful, killing a kid, and then the dad hands him some evidence and says, "Get rid of it," should the kid spend the rest of his life behind bars for that?

We`re just getting started. On the other side, I`m going to speak with the other side of the story: the victim`s grandmother and his aunt. Stay right there.


AMANDA CAMPBELL, TREY ZWICKER`S MOTHER: With every breath that I take, I miss my son. A piece of me died with my son that day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re now left with the feeling of something is missing. Something is missing, and that is Trey.




GOUKER: I hit him, he went down. I stepped on his hand. He still had the bar in his hand, and I hit him. Before I knew it, it was over.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That monster describing how he killed 14-year-old Trey Zwicker, whose body was found in a ditch behind the local high school. The lead detective who was first on the crime scene described what it was like in those first few moments when she saw this young victim`s body bludgeoned. The pictures are so gruesome, we cannot show them to you, lying face down in a ditch. Watch this.


DET. LEIGH MARONI, LOUISVILLE METRO P.D.: From what we could see, it looked like he may have been struck with a blunt force object. But then again, it`s hard to tell. We`re not medical examiners. So we`re going to search for any kind of sharp force objects, any bullet casings, projectiles or any sort of blunt-force object in the area that could have caused any injury, fatal injury.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There you have the lead detective saying we really don`t really know exactly what happened, except that this poor boy died a horrible death.

Will Clark, reporter, 84 WHAS, you`ve been covering this case. You are out of Kentucky. What is the evidence against this young defendant?

WILL CLARK, WHAS REPORTER (via phone): Currently, the state is still working on making their case on that. There was some belief, and a movement by Josh Young`s relatives after Josh Gouker had made his plea and confessed to the crime, that Josh Young not be -- not go to trial, based on the belief that there wasn`t any evidence. And the state is still -- obviously, we`re in day one here. We spent the first two days in this week in jury selection.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me jump in, Will, for a second. Opening statements, that`s when the prosecution lays out its case. OK? We just heard opening statements today.

There was only the implication that this woman named Cassie, a cousin, a female cousin of the defendant`s father, who allegedly, purportedly, had sexual relationships with the defendant`s father. I don`t know; I wasn`t there. She`s the one who said, "Oh, this kid came over and said, "Here, I`ve got a bloody bat and I`ve got some bloody clothes. Let`s go dispose of them together`."

First of all, even a kid knows if you`ve got evidence, why bring somebody else into it? You know, even a child would know, if you`re going to hide something that nobody should see, don`t bring another person into it. The story doesn`t make sense on its face, Will.

CLARK: No, it doesn`t. And the argument that -- that I believe that Josh Young`s defense team is going to make is that he was forced into this by a very, it`s been proven and argued, a manipulative Josh Gouker to kind of assist in what would be, for lack of another term, be described as the cleanup after this act.

And if he even had possession of those things, I believe that the argument that the Josh Young team is going to make is that he was manipulated or forced into it and didn`t have any involvement. And that`s the burden the state is up against, that they`re having a hard time proving that -- if even that happened at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, if your father is a violent ex-con and he tells you to do something, and you don`t do it, who knows what`s going to happen? His parents tell kids to do that all the time. Is it the kid`s fault for following the father`s instruction?

My gosh. You know, back in the old days, my dad would send me out to get cigarettes and vodka for him. And I brought it back. But today, that would -- they`d call the police. But those were the old days, so I never thought twice about it. I`d never consider disobeying my father. It would never occur to me.

I want to go now to our two very special exclusive guests, and Leeda Zwicker and Tara Zwicker. Leeda Zwicker is the grandmother of the victim in this case. And I want to show the victim`s photo, as well, because this is all about a 14-year-old boy, an innocent boy who did not have to die, who found himself -- found himself in the clutches of a monster.

And there he is. There is that boy right to the right of your screen, who is no longer with us, holding a pumpkin. Look at -- look at him. A handsome, beautiful boy with his whole life ahead of him, who hideously died a violent death, because he was somehow in the care of a monstrous stepfather.

Thank you for joining us. Leeda Zwicker, I`ll start with you. You`re the grandmother of this beautiful young boy. Did you have any idea what was going on in this household where your grandson was living with this monster, Joshua Gouker, who was supposedly feeding him and son drugs and showing them sex tapes and God only knows what?

LEEDA ZWICKER, TREY ZWICKER`S GRANDMOTHER: I didn`t know any of that until after the fact. I did have a friend that her daughter`s ex-husband dated Amanda briefly, Trey`s mother. And I`d heard some stories, but they were hearsay, like they would lock the cabinets, and the kids couldn`t get to the food, and some odd stuff. But I try to be pretty helpful (ph) for my boys, but you know, it was all pretty much hearsay.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, there are a lot of people who are saying, look, something horrible, something unforgivable, something hideous happened to your poor grandson. But that the person who is responsible is the dad. His stepfather, the man of the house. The patriarch of the house.

This violent man, who beat his dog, the family dog to death and killed a cat and terrorized people and was an ex-con, who had just gotten out of prison. Leave the boy out of this, they say.

And we just heard at the start of the trial today opening statements that even our expert panel, nobody could really come up with any bombshell evidence against this boy defendant.

I want to hear the other side of that. Do you feel that this kid, Josh Young, should be on trial, and if so, why?

T. ZWICKER: I do believe that he should be on trial. I do believe that he was either part of this murder or a cover-up for his murder or a backup for his father. They were two of his kind, and I believe with my whole part, as the mother and the grandmother, that he was truly a part of this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tara Zwicker, you are Trey Zwicker, the victim`s aunt. What do you think to the critics who say this is a kid. He was 15 at the time. His dad was a monster. He`d never been in trouble before ending up in his father`s clutches after his dad got out of prison and yanked him out of foster care. I want to hear the other side of it.

TARA ZWICKER, TREY ZWICKER`S AUNT: I was just speaking to my mother earlier that I was reading some of the comments that were written on Facebook. Him being an innocent boy, never being in any trouble. That`s all hearsay, too.

Because I know that I have also heard that he vandalized buildings, broke into cars, stole stuff. I mean, it`s obvious, if he was laughing while videotaping beating animals, that there is no way that that is a sweet little innocent kid. So I -- I do believe that he had a hand in this, too.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You`re giving me new information. You are claiming that you`ve seen videotapes of the boy, not the father but the boy, beating animals?

T. ZWICKER: No, no. I`m referring to the videotape of the dad beating the animals, but the son, Josh Young, was the one holding the camera, laughing while it was going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Wow, wow! Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Hold on, we -- we`re just getting started. Don`t go anywhere. We`re going to take a short break. We`re going to be back with more of our exclusive interview with the victim, Trey Zwicker`s grandmother and aunt. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Hurley (ph), a Liberty High School teacher, took his students for a break. They walked out of the back of the school. The kids noticed graffiti on the walls outside the school but did not see a body, which would have been 20 yards away from where Trey was discovered.

But nearly three hours later, approximately 1 p.m., another teacher, Mrs. Varner (ph), also took her students out for a walk. One of the students yelled, "There`s a dead body."

Mr. Arnold, the school security guard, called 911 at 1:16 p.m.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know what the instrument of Trey`s death was. Because that defendant woke up his cousin in the middle of the night, after he and his father committed the murder, and asked her to help him get rid of a bloody bat and clothes. And she did.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And we are here exclusively with Leeda Zwicker, the grandmother of the victim, as well as Tara Zwicker, the aunt of the victim.

Now, supposedly, this woman, who said that the young defendant, Josh Young, woke her up in the middle of the night and said, "Hey, help me get rid of a bloody bat and clothes."

Her name is Cassie. And she`s supposedly having a sexual relationship at some point in time with the father who`s already pleaded guilty to the killing. Do you know anything about this family dynamic? And she`s a cousin. Do you know anything about this family dynamic?

L. ZWICKER: Are you speaking to us?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, exactly. Leeda, I`m sorry. Do you know anything about the family dynamic?

L. ZWICKER: I don`t know anything about that at all. The only time we heard Cassie`s name is when -- after the fact that Trey was gone and the story came out that Josh Young ran to her back door, screaming and hollering let him in. He had just killed Trey with a bat, and he needed help.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why was this sick family dynamic allowed to go on? Given that this ex-con was in charge of these two boys. I mean, obviously, nobody knows what`s happening inside a family, but this guy had a record. Did anybody from your side of the family try to get this -- get Trey out of there?

We knew that Gouker had had a record once he had gotten out. From my understanding, it was -- he had strangled a guy with a belt and left him in a vegetarian [SIC] state, but I`m not sure that`s exactly the facts on that -- just what I`ve heard.

But Trey`s dad, Terry Jr., he stayed up on all of that, and he had Trey every other week, and he talked to Trey, and he had Trey. And Trey assured him that he was fine, and that he was, you know, wanted to be there to make sure everything was ok with his younger sister, McKenzie. His dad had enough faith in him that he -- you know, he thought everything would be fine. I knew Josh -- he knew Josh was an idiot, but I don`t think any of us ever thought that he would harm Trey to this extent.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your grandson was a hero who stayed in a dysfunctional to protect his kid sister and his mom.

L. ZWICKER: He`s a blessing. He was a blessing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My heart goes out to you. My condolences to you both.

L. ZWICKER: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.


LINDA LANHAM, DEFENDANT`S AUNT: I don`t think my nephew should be there at all. I don`t think he was at the scene. I don`t think he had anything to do with it. I think this is all the father manipulating the system and everybody involved in it.




JOSH GOUKER: I said Josh, if they catch us, you just play crazy.

AMANDA CAMPBELL, MOTHER OF TREY ZWICKER: Hardest thing I ever had to do was bury my 14-year-old son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you set your son up to kill Trey Zwicker?

GOUKER: No. Absolutely not.

CAMPBELL: No parent should ever have to feel that pain.

GOUKER: You know, it`s one murder.

CAMPBELL: It`s so heartbreaking. My daughter begs me to get Trey back.

GOUKER: It`s probably the worst thing I ever did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wish this never happened.

GOUKER: We`re even.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to "The Lion`s Den". Panel, you have heard the family of the young defendant say he`s innocent, and the family of the young victim say that this defendant is far from innocent, and is a monster like his dad. So Adam Swickle, what do you think?

ADAM SWICKLE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I guess this evening you`re not going to get a lot of arguing going on here in "The Lion`s Den", because I honestly think that everybody on this panel logically understands that there`s really no evidence that this young boy was involved in this murder. When I look up --

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don`t agree with that.

SWICKLE: Let me just finish -- let me just finish, ok? I waited patiently -- let me just finish. Bottom line is, I`ve been practicing law for 18 years on state and federal court. I`ve never seen an opening statement so lacking in evidence in my entire career. They`re so desperate, so desperate that they have to stand in front of a jury and tell a jury that they`re going to call a murderous monster, who they have no idea what he`s going to say. They have no idea what`s going to happen when he takes the stand in order to support their case.

When you look up, an innocent person in the dictionary, this young boy`s face is sitting right there. There`s no evidence in this case --

MURPHY: Oh, please.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who disagrees with that?

SWICKLE: -- and it is completely overcharged. Completely overcharged.


MURPHY: Listen, ok, he`s cute.

SWICKLE: Give me some evidence, Wendy. Show me what they did on opening statement.


F1: I`d like some evidence Wendy -- where is the evidence.

SWICKLE: Give me some evidence, Wendy.


MURPHY: It`s very easy to get swept away by the sweet-faced nature of this kid. Lots of kids age 15 do extremely bad things, ok? They just do. Look up the data. There is a lot of evidence implicating him --


SWICKLE: Where is the evidence?

MURPHY: -- because -- let me just finish.

SWICKLE: Where is the evidence?

MURPHY: There`s a lot of evidence against. Listen --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this --

MURPHY: Stop talking -- can I say something? Please.

First of all, he confessed. That was a confession to Cassie. You don`t have to like her but it was a confession, ok. And don`t be biased against her just because she`s having sex with somebody. That doesn`t mean she`s a liar. She told that to cops, it was a confession. And he also made similar statements to other witnesses. So even if they`re all a little ugly to you, they corroborate each other.

Plus, the forensic evidence shows multiple weapons were used. That`s strong proof that there was more than one person involved. And in the whole world I think we all can agree that if anyone killed this boy, it was only two people, maybe one, maybe two, but no more than two. And they both should stand trial -- win or lose.


ANNA YUM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, what I wanted to say was, the forensics don`t support anything. They can`t even establish what the murder weapon was. And so what we`re faced with is the older Joshua --

MURPHY: It`s irrelevant. It doesn`t matter. He`s dead. His brains are smooshed.

JON LEIBERMAN: Another problem -- look -- another problem here is motive.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, hold on.

YUM: So where is the evidence? Where is the murder weapon to establish that this young boy had anything to do with this?

MURPHY: Confession, confession.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You don`t need a murder weapon to convict.



YUM: No but --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman?

LEIBERMAN: Another issue though is motive, as well. It just doesn`t appear from what I`ve read in all the documents that Josh Young would have any motive at all.

MURPHY: It doesn`t matter.

LEIBERMAN: In fact, multiple people are going to testify that these two were close.

SWICKLE: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fantastic panel, you don`t need a motive to be cruel, if indeed it is true that the dad is beating a dog to death and a kid is filming it and laughing, then you may just have sadism. We don`t know. Let the court system have its day.

Thank you fantastic panel.

As you may know, I have just written a new book about the Jodi Arias case that hits August 20th. It`s called "Exposed: The secret life of Jodi Arias". A lot of people have asked me why did I write this book? Well, for months on end I lived and breathed the Jodi Arias trial, reporting on almost nothing else, spending a lot of time at the Phoenix, Arizona courthouse. This vicious murder haunted my thoughts. I felt that we as a society needed to learn something about the warning signs of a murderous mindset to prevent somebody else from suffering the way Travis did.

I spoke to many of Travis` friends who told me they became increasingly alarmed over Jodi`s obsessive behavior. I wanted to dig up the deeper why. If we can learn from this tragedy, then Travis Alexander will not have died in vain. And I did obtain stunning new information.

And by the way, a portion of the net profits are going to charity. And my book is dedicated to victim Travis Alexander and his siblings.

And yes, you can pre-order it now online. I worked very, very hard on this book. I hope you read it. After you read it, I hope you tell me what you think at We`ll be right back with more.

Lindsay Lohan, you won`t believe what she`s doing now.


LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I wasn`t missing the classes. I`m not doing anything like that. I was working, mostly in Morocco. That trip I was working with children. It wasn`t a vacation. It wasn`t some sort of a joke. And I respect you. And I`ve been taking it seriously.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she is out of rehab.

LOHAN: I`m not taking this as a joke. It`s my life and it`s my career and something I worked for my entire life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After serving her court order 90 days for a probation violation.

LOHAN: I learned from my experiences. I take responsibility for my actions.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, watch out, everyone`s favorite and hopefully former troubled starlet, unleashed again on Hollywood. That`s right, Lindsay Lohan stepping out of rehab for the first time in a whopping three months. She`s got a huge grin on her face, looking happy. But after a half dozen stints at rehab, will she stay sober this time?

Lindsay was sent to 90 days of rehab after violating her probation on reckless driving charges and lying to cops. TMZ says Lindsay is (inaudible) to live with a sober coach before striking out on her own. But get this she`s already scheduled to host "Chelsea Lately" Monday Night. Check this out from YouTube.


CHELSEA HANDLER, TALK SHOW HOST: You look like you`re 12.

LOHAN: I do.

HANDLER: I was the opposite. When I was 12, I looked like I was 31. I was like getting into bars way before I even wanted to drink. And now I`m like everyone is -- they turn around -- it`s like, when is it going to turn around? Because people still think I`m like 60.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay is going to do that? A couple days out of rehab? Straight out to our own senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian; you`ve obtained brand new exclusive information. What have you got?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Jane, we know that she has left Cliffside Malibu and she has made the decision on her own to hire a coach to help her through this period where she has left the rehab. And I`m told that she`s doing great.

I`ve asked if she`s on any drugs at all from a source of mine, if she`s on any prescription pills or anything, and they say that she`s completely drug free, no drugs at all and that she is doing really, really great.

Now, I`ve also obtained a letter from Cliffside Malibu to the judge saying that it is imperative that she actually goes to three 50-minute sessions of therapy a week after she leaves the rehab center. And it says in here, if she does not, it is set up for almost certain failure if she does not attend these therapy sessions.

So we know that she has left. She`s doing great. She`s drug-free and hopefully she can continue on this path.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Jennifer Gimenez -- thank you for that very good information, by the way, Selin. Jennifer Gimenez, owner of magazine, actress, model, you`re the ultimate slash. That`s not a ringing endorsement. First of all, I mean therapy -- therapy, a (inaudible) number of sobriety is what you need to stay sober. Not necessarily therapy. But yes, therapy can be used as an adjunct.

But what do you make of this? Because when they say completely sober, I think that means without Adderall. There`s been a lot of reports that her real addiction is an addiction to Adderall which is widely misused and abused, very addictive, and used by some Hollywood actresses to stay skinny.

JENNIFER GIMENEZ, OWNER SOBERBOOK.COM: Yes. I agree with you. You know, it scares me because yet again we`re going back to the old ways. I mean she`s attempted sobriety so many, so many times, and the scary thing here is you can`t just do it on therapy alone.

She`s obviously a level ten addict. And you know, she needs the program, she needs that sober companion, not for three days. She needs it for three years at this point. You know, I was a chronic relapser and I had sober companions for many, many, many years. I really do feel like she`s putting way too much on her plate right now and, you know, she`s kind of setting her up a little bit for -- setting herself up for failure, which is very scary to me, you know.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Filling in for Chelsea Handler would be scary for somebody with 20 years of sobriety, much less somebody who just got out of rehab. That`s going into the hot seat.

GIMENEZ: It really is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She should be meditating and doing yoga and chanting and walking by the bay not sitting in Chelsea Handler`s seat. Unbelievable. More on the side.

GIMENEZ: She needs to be in the 12-step room all day long. All day and all night long.


LOHAN: I stopped in someone`s (inaudible) because someone came out of the room and said could you just take a picture with me really quickly. So went in the room, took a picture and left the room. I wasn`t looking around the room, I just thought I was taking a picture of the fan. And I recently have heard about these (inaudible) and no, so I wouldn`t know what was in the room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you still taking drugs?

LOHAN: No, no.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet of the Day". Send your pet pics to Kylie Jo -- oh wow. Gatsby -- you are great. You are the Great Gatsby. I love your tuxedo. Jackie and Duke, well you`re just sitting there and hanging out and I think you`re a good team. Look at those -- Rufio, what are you got going on there? You`ve got your goggles? I`m speechless.


LOHAN: I`m not taking this as a joke. It`s my life. And it`s my career. It`s something I`ve worked for my entire life. And, you know, I`ve learned from my experiences. I take responsibility for my actions. And I`ve tried to do the best I can in the past few weeks since I was here last which is the only time I`ve been, you know, present in front of a judge in any of my situations in terms of this specific case.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay has been skeptical about rehab since the beginning. She made it clear before that she doesn`t think she belongs there. Listen to what she said about rehab right after two -- count them - - two DUIs.


LOHAN: I don`t see why I would even have to do that considering I have been in compliance with everything that occurs when you`re in the court system for two DUIs.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s talk about this Adderall issue because I`m holding in my hand a probation report from 2010 and Jennifer Gimenez, you`ll find this interesting. It says, well, she tested positive for amphetamines. Once again there is no probation violation as the positive result as the result of the drug, Adderall. And there are published reports that when she was in Betty Ford she was upset that it wasn`t Adderall friendly -- in other words, that she wasn`t allowed to keep taking the Adderall.

But we have now learned from our sources that she`s completely drug free and to me that means she`s off Adderall. That to me is a very good sign and looking at her picture leaving rehab, I feel like she looks sober there for the first time. She`s smiling. She may have even put on a couple of pounds.

I`m hopeful for her. But then you`ve got the letter saying we don`t think she`s going to survive if he doesn`t go to a lot of therapy. What do you make of it?

GIMENEZ: Well, first of all I do -- I also agree with you. I think she looks great. She needed put on a couple of pounds. I mean they`re just a couple of pounds. The scary thing is that she still was wanting to pill seek. And the fact that she didn`t like Betty Ford because it didn`t allow her to do Adderall -- it`s a scary thing; she`s still not surrendered.

However she is in a better place saying that she wants to be sober. You know, this is about life or death. You know, I get really scared that a lot of people say a lot of people are watching here and she`s a role model to a lot of people and they think that going in and out of treatment is attractive. I condone everyone for going into treatment even if they have to do it more than once. Just, you know, I think it`s really important for her to be, you know, to work a program. At this point she needs works a program, therapy, she needs all these outside help.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree -- let me just say this. I hope that she is sober and remains sober. I hope she kicks Adderall because just because a doctor prescribes it doesn`t mean that you can`t get hooked on it. More people are overdosing from legal prescription drugs today than they are from illegal drugs.

We are in an addict nation so Good luck. Stay away from the Adderall. You don`t need it. Sober is sober. There`s no other way. No gray area.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Monster dad is expected to take the witness stand tomorrow in his son`s trial. We`re going to have it all. Join us tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Nancy is next.