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Manhunt for Alleged Kidnapper, Murderer

Aired August 7, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. The hunt intensifies for a suspected madman. Newly uttered secrets point to a shocking motive.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

Police say suspected killer, kidnapper, arsonist, Jim DiMaggio, was on the run with this beautiful 16-year-old girl, Hanna Anderson. Now, three days ago, he torched his rural home near San Diego, inside where the bodies of Hanna`s mom and a boy, likely her little brother Ethan. Did the suspect`s obsession with the teenage daughter drive him to kidnap her and kill her mom and her kid brother?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to let me daughter go. You have taken everything else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The body of the children`s mother was found Sunday night inside DiMaggio`s mourning home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is safe to say he`s a dangerous person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`re watching this, please don`t hurt my family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A relative claims that DiMaggio had some kind of a crush on the 16-year-old girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This gentleman that was a friend of ours for a long time has taken everything.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The suspect was a trusted friend of the Anderson family. The children affectionately referred to him as uncle Jim. Always a problem in my opinion. Their heart broken father had this message for his former friend, turned tormenter, uncle Jim.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He trusted. He knew he could take this job out of state because this man was going to look over his family while he was gone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The dad said he cannot fathom what the suspect was thinking when this close family friend allegedly went off the deep end, murdering the mother and likely the son, torching his home, which they were revisiting and then taking off with the teenage daughter.

Tonight, stunning new clues into the suspect`s twisted mind. Is a secret crush, an infatuation on the 16-year-old girl who called him uncle Jim, what set this sicko (ph) off?


ANGELINA AMATI, ANDERSON FAMILY FRIEND: Hanna mentioned something about a big secret and I asked her what it was and then she told me.

KAYLA AMATI, ANDERSON FAMILY FRIEND: I know Hanna did say she was creeped out when Jim told her he had a crush on her.

CHEYENNE CAMPER, MISSING GIRL`S FRIEND: She said that she wouldn`t go up there anymore because it was too awkward between them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A secret crush. What`s your take on this horror story? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to CNN`s Paul Vercammen who is live in San Diego.

It sounds like there`s a massive dragnet. Have there been any sightings of this James DiMaggio and the teen girl he is allegedly with?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, there has not been, Jane. In fact, the search has been expanded, going well beyond California`s borders to other states and even into Mexico. Federal authorities joining in on the hunt. They, of course, are looking for DiMaggio and the girl. But so far no sign of either.

You may have heard at one point, it was characterized the search goes from Canada to Texas, but in fact, we talked to law enforcement officers that was more just a figure of speech. They said they might have as well have said Oshkosh. So a wide dragnet of that looking desperately because the time is ticking away for both the fugitive and 16-year-old girl, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just absolutely horrific story. Thank you for that report, Paul.

Well, when it comes to finding people, we have got the expert on our show tonight. Now, this alleged predator kidnapper James DiMaggio happened to live near the U.S. border with Mexico. So, what if he crossed over with his hostage, young Hanna, how do we find them?

Straight out to famed bounty hunter and star of the new show, "Dog and Beth on the Hunt" on TMZ, Duane "dog" Chapman.

Dog, you are a famous bounty hunter. You catch him. You are no stranger hunting down serious criminals. First, let`s check this out and then we are going to get to you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re coming with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be sure somebody gets on the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Anna here, honey?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is here with you? What adult is with you? Anna, we`ve got a warm for your arrest. You need to come out here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dog, Lee DiMaggio is on the run tonight, a massive dragnet. Nobody has seen hide nor hair of them. As somebody who has captured hundreds of bad guys and brought them to justice, what are cops doing wrong? I mean, What should they do now to find this guy?

DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN, BOUNTY HUNTER (via phone): Well, they are doing everything exactly right. You need to get out the information, all rest stops, public restrooms. You know, everybody, we have to get out the picture of the two kids and of the suspect. He may not have been seen right now, but it`s not going to be very long. I think that they are doing everything exactly right. You`ve got to get the pictures of the kid`s out and of the suspect.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me ask you this because this is the toughest part of the story and there is many tough ones. You are no stranger to hunting perps south of the border and of course, you captured the incredibly high profile cosmetics heir/convicted rapist Andrew Luster when he fled to Mexico back in 2003. There he is. And let`s get everybody up to speed here for a second.

Andrew Luster faced 86 charges of raping three women when he took off in the middle of his trial, and he vanished. Then he turned up in Mexico. And Dog, you managed to track him down outside a club in (INAUDIBLE), Mexico and he was arrested on the spot and hauled back to the United States.

So if DiMaggio, let`s get back to the case we are talking about tonight, has taken Hanna across the border to Mexico, which makes perfect sense because he lives right near the border, what do we do with the exception of having you join in the hunt and go down there, how do American law enforcement find him?

CHAPMAN: Well, in Mexico, he would stick out like a sore thumb. And one thing about Mexico, they may be a poor country financially, but morally, they are very strong. And just like in the case of Luster, 87 counts of rape, in this case, it is a young child, too you children, you know, he is a sexual predator. He`s proven that now. So that doesn`t go overwhelm in Mexico.

So again, in Mexico, just by, you know, the offering of his picture, and they will have him. I think within 24 hours. He is obviously holed up somewhere right now, not traveling. But he has got to get on the road. So, I think within the next 24 hours somebody will spot him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, by the way, I believe our network is seen all over Mexico and Latin America. I know. I have been to hotels in Mexico and I turn on and there`s HLN. So anybody, in Mexico if you see this guy, don`t approach him. He`s considered extremely dangerous even though he looks like a total goof ball, call the authorities and do not approach him. He can be dangerous and he also has it`s believed a hostage.

Well, hang on for a second, Dog. Now, let`s get back to the issue here.

Yes, this guy is a goof ball, but he is obviously a dangerous goof ball. There he is with the object of his crush. So, about six months ago, the shattered family`s father, Brett Anderson, took a job across the country. And friends say, ironically, he felt better about leaving his family, his precious wife and his two beautiful kids, knowing uncle Jim, close family friend, would be there if they needed anything.


ANGELINA AMATI: He trusted. He knew that he could take this job out of state because this man was going to look over his family while he was gone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Now, we know the secret. Uncle Jim was obsessed with his buddy`s 16-year-old daughter. She told friends she was creeped out by his infatuation with her. We are seeing hallmarks of a predator here, an adult who shows great interest in another family`s children. The guy who is always around the hill with the kids.

Straight out to the lion`s den.

This is a classic case as I have seen it, and we are going to go to the lion`s den and start with Simone Bienne, psychosexual and relationship there.

Isn`t it often the uncle Jim, who is not really uncle, who is always giving gifts to the kids. Honestly, I experienced something similar to this when I was a kid, but thank God, nothing happened to me. But we had an "uncle" who was a little creepy. Isn`t this the classic sign of a predator?

SIMONE BIENNE, PSYCHOSEXUAL AND RELATIONSHIP THERAPIST: Yes, absolutely. I mean, it starts off with awareness of that having those kind of feelings. And then it goes fantasy. When the fantasy is not enough, Jane, then it translates into stalking and then goes into obviously molestation. But here, what we know about this guy, is he had the availability. And exactly, as you say, Jane, the uncle, when he has the trust of the family, it means that he can even greater accessibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I always say think about what their self- interest is. If they are always bringing gifts. And we have another special guest with us, Marc Klaas, the father of the murder victim, Polly Klaas, the founder of an incredible organization, Klasskids foundation.

Marc Klaas, when they are bringing gifts to the kids, when they offered to help, when there are all about helping you with your beautiful teenage daughter, watch out.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT, FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Yes. No, absolutely, Jane, you do have to watch out. And these are the kinds of guys that fall through the cracks. Because the way they have these things setup the way they categorize these kidnappers is stranger abduction, and then family abduction.

But there are all of these uncles lurking around in the background that often times do commit horrible crimes against these children and they fall off the grid, because they`re neither strangers nor necessarily family members. I think what they need to be doing id they need to be categorizing these crimes as predatory abductions and non-predatory abduction which would be, you know, a knock of story of the family member, father or mother, taking the child to get back at the custodial parent.

But you have all of these uncles, you have religious leaders, you have all of these people that are clinging on and close to the family that people think can be trusted when in fact they are probably the most dangerous people out there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we have got an exclusive guest tonight, Bobbi Aumand, a family friend of the Andersons, a legitimate family friend. And there was a vigil last night, I believe we have video of the vigil, if we can show a little bit of that. You had tended, is my understanding, and you spoke eloquently.

Now, you knew this family, and I say knew because the mother is dead, it`s likely that the 8-year-old child is dead. This family is shattered and devastated. This is a horror. How did this guy, Jim DiMaggio, weave his way and insinuate his way into this family`s life, if I may ask, Bobbi?

BOBBI AUMAND, ANDERSON FAMILY FRIEND (via phone): I was not close with Tina but I was very close with the grandmother, Bernice. Bernice, I have worked with here and known for over 35 years. And the Anderson family grew up in L.A. gardens where I grew up. And so, I knew all the brothers and I knew Bernice`s husband, Bob, who had passed away I believe it has been about three years ago.

After Bob passed way, Brent, of course was -- both the boys were worried about their mom and Brent had a friend, Jim DiMaggio that was a close friend of his. The impression I got is he had known him for many years and that it would be perfect situation, he could rent a room from Bernice and help Bernice out so she`s not alone because it`s a big house that she lives in. And you know, possibly help her with things around the house and that. And it turned out to be a very good relationship between the two of them and I believe he lived there for about two years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, you said a couple of things, Bobbi.

Bobbi, I just want to jump in. I want to stop you for one second. Your information is excellent and don`t go anywhere, but I want to go back to our panel.

And I will go Evangeline Gomez, criminal defense attorney. When an adult male is renting a room, again, unless there`s a specific good reason like, I work in two cities and I need to be in one city and it`s a real logical, I say alarm bell, Evangeline.

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with you 100 percent, Jane. I think you have made an excellent point. This is a classic profile of somebody who is a pedophile. The parents should have seen it from the beginning. I`m interested in knowing, did this young woman tell her mother or father or another family member that this guy had allegedly revealed he had a crush on her? Why didn`t her friends say anything to authorities, to their parents to try to set off the alarm?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because people don`t say anything, you know. I know that from my own personal experience. Nothing ever happened to me, but there was a family friend who was a little creepy and he kept buying me gifts and said a couple of things, that I thought -- even as a child, I said something is funky with this situation. I didn`t say anything to my parents. This is not what people do unfortunately.

Jordan Rose, weigh in quickly and then we are going to have more on the other side.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, it`s so scary, because you teach your kids, you know, don`t talk to strangers, and that`s something that you commonly talk about all the time. But you never say don`t talk to that uncle. Don`t trust that uncle. And they don`t tell you these things because they Are just weird and they don`t know why. So, it is something where we got to teach our kids, you know, hey, if it is not mommy or daddy, don`t go. Just don`t go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And look at how beautiful that young girl is and we pray and hope that she is OK right now.

Well, we are going to talk a little bit about strategies what her told her to do if she was watching TV and he said run. And we are going to ask our experts, including Marc Klaas` facts, good advice, should she run if she can or not.

Stay right there. More on the other side and we are taking your calls.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was close to the kids. And, you know, he was good friends with my sister and brother-in-law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A weird creepy twist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hanna mentioned about something about a big secret. I know Hanna did say she was a little creeped out when Jim did tell her he had a crush on her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said he wouldn`t go up there anymore because it was too awkward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to let my daughter go.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Overnight, a vigil of hope for children allegedly kidnapped by this man, James DiMaggio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jim, I can`t fathom what you were thinking. The damage is done. I`m begging you to let my daughter go. You`ve taken everything else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Speaking directly to Jim DiMaggio, the man who investigators believed killed Anderson`s ex-wife.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s take a look at some of the photos of this suspect, Jim DiMaggio.

Now, we have an exclusive guest with us tonight, a family friend of the Andersons. This wonderful family that has been shattered. I want you to -- all of you, the panelists, our exclusive guests, everyone, look at the pictures of this guy, because to me, this says I`m emotionally immature. I`m emotionally stunted. I`m a 40-year-old man and I`m goofing around and mocking for the camera like a teenager. So, to me, that makes sense that a person who is emotionally stunted is going to fixate on somebody who is not his age. He is 40, he is fixated and has a crush on a 16-year-old girl that he has known since he was child.

Bobbi Aumand, again, our exclusive guest, did you ever see this man? Did you know him and what was your vibe off of him?

AUMAND: I had met him on several different occasions at the grandmother`s house, Bernice. After her husband passed away, we have a get together with a group of women that go over and that have worked together for years, and have dinner and talk and stuff. He would be there, because he was living there and he would come out and say hi, and he would have a beer in his hand. And he is very quiet. He seemed like a really nice guy. There wasn`t anything that came off of him in any way to me that seemed weird. And that`s the scary part in all of this, he seemed normal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you hit the nail on the head. Exactly, people thought the BTK serial killer was normal. You are so right, Bobbi. And hang on there for a second. We really appreciate your insight.

Let`s go back to the lion`s den. I mean, I`ve got to ask our panelists, you know criminal defense attorneys deal with so many people who have mental issues and who are emotionally shattered, Mike Gottlieb. You know, this notion of, Well, we are not really blood, but we`re family. It is a tricky notion. Sometimes it can work, sometimes it can allow a Trojan horse into the family. When you look at the photos of this guy, he looks so juvenile to me, so emotionally immature. Do you get a sense that one day he`s a goof ball, as the next person`s desperate monster.

MIKE GOTTLIEB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not really sure what sense you get from him his attitude or from him being jovial around the family. I think honestly, what concerns me when I look at those pictures is he seems to be -- he`s like a chameleon. He doesn`t look the same from one picture to another and I find that troubling from a standpoint of trying to find this guy, in trying to hunt him down and see where he is at. In some pictures, he`s got a beard, in some he`s clean shaven. I find that troubling. His attitude in the picture, he seems to be on vacation, he is joking around, but you know, obviously, when you put it together, it is certainly a recipe for disaster.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, look at this picture, Marc Klaas. I would call him under the best of circumstances a goof ball. There he is hanging out with --

KLAAS: That`s the disturbing one.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, this is the really -- let`s go back to that photo of him with -- yes. We are going to circle through them, but Marc Klaas, there is a photo of him posing with the 16-year-old girl, the family friend`s daughter that he has abducted allegedly and you would see them together. What 40-year-old man is hanging out with a 16-year-old girl at some whatever, looks like some kind of public event? He doesn`t have a life in my opinion.

KLAAS: Well, any 40-year-old man is hanging out with 16-year-olds of either sex is an emotionally immature individual who needs to be separated from those kids. If I could very quickly address something that another guest talked about. And it`s about talking to strangers.

We dealt with this issue a lot. And here is the way we look at it. Number one, kids should always check with their parents first. Number two, they should always be with at least one other person besides this grownup individual. Number three, if something feels bad to them, whether it`s a stranger or whether it is a so-called uncle, they need to put distance between themselves, and whatever that is and then they need to go to somebody for help, a trusted adult.

Go to your mother, Hanna, and tell your mother that this guy seems to have unnatural desire on me. And the parents can then handle it from there. I don`t know what went wrong in that whole scenario with this family, but I think that could have gone a long way towards rectifying and this situation in preventing a potential tragedy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I agree with you, Marc Klaas.

But having experienced the same thing, not this extreme but just sort of creepy so-called uncle-type when I was a kid, it`s so hard to go to the parents. The parents are friends with that person And then what do you say? You feel like you betray them. They befriend you. They give you gifts. You look forward to them, candy, candy. Parents don`t let me have candy, but this guy does. Bought me a fancy archery set. Always a toy when he comes around. I love them. But, do I really love him? Why is he giving me all this stuff? Why does he want to take me somewhere by myself? Should I go, will I get ice cream or candy. Those are the thoughts that go through a kid`s head. I know, I experienced it.

On the other side, how do you deal with a suspect who has a beautiful young hostage?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An amber alert has been activated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Two California kids, gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: 16-year-old Hanna Anderson and 8-year-old Ethan Anderson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Their mother murdered. Their home destroyed by fire.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jim, if you`re watching this, please don`t hurt my family. (INAUDIBLE) my little cousin. Please bring my cousin home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a nightmare for this family. Where is this sicko, Jim DiMaggio, with his hostage, beautiful 16-year-old, Hanna Anderson, the child of his good friend.

Police initially said the suspect could be headed to Texas or Canada. Tonight, they say they don`t know of where do they even start looking. Now, the suspect lived in the desert in a small town outside of San Diego right across the border. Mexico would be a logical place to disappear. We have a description of his vehicle, four-door Nissan versa which he may have already ditch.

Straight out to the lion`s den and we`ll throw Duane "dog" Chapman, famed bounty hunter into the lion`s den.

First of all, he has a vulnerable hostage in his clutches. He might try to use her, God forbid, as some kind of leverage. How does that complicate the ability to search and find this man, Duane "dog" Chapman?

CHAPMAN: So far what I have, you know, been thinking about and really watching and studying, everyone says he is normal. So I think right now that`s how he got his way in as a predator does that they act normal. So, he would be doing normal things.

Now, two things. Were the children present during the murder? If they were, the kids are totally freaked out, screaming at every corner, he can`t control them. He has to have them in somewhere. If he`s dating her and taking her to like amusement parks and where 16-year-old girls like to go and malls and try to get him on her side, then he is in public. So again, I say just, you know, watch for him. He`ll be -- he`s got to pop up. Somebody is going to scream or run like their father said.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose, here is what drives me crazy. Is it time for national surveillance system on vehicles? I mean, people talk about the NSA spying programs. Yes, I`m against people reading my e-mails. But you know, if I`m not doing anything wrong, I don`t care if they can see my license plate when I`m driving down the street. They catch anyway when I go through red light. I don`t know how many photographs I have got from myself. Why is it that it`s OK to photograph people to give them a ticket but not to save a young girl`s life?

ROSE: Well, it is baffling to me. We talk so much right now about the al-Qaeda threats and the NSA watching and reading everything. And here you have got a situation where if we could just track the cars, if we could just track the car, we would be home free. We could get the girl back. It would be all good.

So, you know, you balance freedom versus the, you know, surveillance of the state and the government watching us. And freedom is going to win in America, but in this case, you just -- it hurts. It`s painful because my goodness, if we could just see where that car was, we would have this girl back. Luckily, it`s all over the TV, so everyone is watching.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Evangeline though, I think -- and maybe I will throw this to Simone Bienne because you are the expert of the psycho sexual relationship. You heard Dog say well, maybe he`s still trying to woo her. But if she saw her mother being killed, possibly her little brother being killed, the house set on fire, she`s terrified.

BIENNE: You`re absolutely right, Jane. And when I was hearing that, my immediate response would be that she would go into a primitive state herself, fight, flight or freeze. Considering that we know that she already told her friend that she was freaked out by this guy. She found him creepy. She asked her friend to take her, to sit with her as she went to the gym classes when he was there.

This girl will be terrified. She will trust her gut. And what is so scary, and what I`m petrified about and we all have to come together is the fact that he is destroying everything that was dear to her because he feels shame and that she has destroyed everything, i.e., her love is nonexistent for him. She has destroyed that for him.

So I think she`s in grave, grave danger. I think this has gone beyond predating on her. I think this is going to be seriously harmful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I pray that somehow he knows -- how did this cross the line? That`s what we`re going to talk about on the other side. I mean one thing is a crush, the other thing is a murder, possibly a double murder, arson, kidnapping.

More on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect in this murder and arson has been identified as James Lee Dimaggio.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now a nationwide manhunt to find those kids and the man police say took them.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He trusted, he knew that he could take this job out of state because this man was going to look over his family while he was gone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, this horrific fire in the desert outside San Diego and a horror discovered inside. A mom murdered and it`s believed her eight-year-old son murdered, as well although his body has not been positively identified. And their beautiful 16-year-old daughter, Hannah -- Hannah Anderson, missing and in the clutches, police believe, of this very sick, demented family friend by the name of Jim Dimaggio who has known the family for a long time.

We have an exclusive guest tonight and her name is Bobbi Aumand. She`s an Anderson family friend. This wonderful family embraced this man, this 40-year-old man by the name of Jim Dimaggio -- we`ll show you a picture of him. He`s being searched across the country and indeed internationally tonight.

And he may very well -- it`s believed he does have the beautiful 16- year-old girl in his clutches. And she had revealed to friends that this creepy so-called Uncle Jim had had a crush on her.

Bobbi Aumand, Anderson family friend, you know Hannah. Hannah is a 16-year-old girl. She`s stunning, absolutely stunning. What is her emotional state? How do you think she would be able to handle a situation like this?

BOBBI AUMAND, ANDERSON FAMILY FRIEND (via telephone): You know, I was not very close with Hannah. I was close with Bernice and I watched Hannah grow up through the years by knowing Bernice and seeing pictures of her and at times seeing her in person when she would bring her into the office and that.

But Hannah is a strong girl. If she saw this murder happen, she has to be just terrified out of her mind. And this man, he needs to just take her somewhere where she can call her family and let them come get her. Just let her go. Just let her go. She can`t -- this can`t go on. He`s just such a sick person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bobbi, you have said something very wise tonight. If you are watching, Jim Dimaggio, let her go. Continue to flee if you want, but just leave her anywhere. Leave her at a rest stop. Leave her outside a 7-Eleven. Leave her on a street corner. But let her go. Let her go.

Marc Klaas, I mean the idea that we have a man with an obsession and a hostage, that makes it tougher -- that makes this search so much tougher.

MARC KLAAS, FATHER OF POLLY KLAAS: Yes, there`s no question about it, Jane. This is a horrible situation. What Hannah has to do here -- and her father was exactly right in his message to her last night -- she has to bide her time. She has to, I guess, play along with this guy as long as she can until she has an opportunity to escape his clutches.

That can happen after only a couple of days as it did with my friend, Mitsy Sanchez (ph). It can take more than a week as it did with little Elizabeth Shelf. Or it can take years as it did with the three women in Cleveland. But they found a way to keep themselves alive during their ordeal and then bide their moment and escape when they had the opportunity. That`s what Hannah -- that`s what has to be going on in Hannah`s mind right now.

They said she`s a smart. She`s a strong girl. This is her time in her life to show her strength.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I hope she does. Let`s do a round robin, starting with Mike Gottlieb. How did this go from a crush to a murderous kidnapping, arson?

MIKE GOTTLIEB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, that`s extremely hard to explain. Obviously there were telltale signs -- a 40-year-old guy having a crush on a 16-year-old. That`s creepy, you know. How it goes to something like this, I don`t know. There were obviously not significant enough warning signs for people to have called the police. You can`t call the police for a crush. It`s not actionable, so.

You know, I don`t know that there`s an explanation for it. I wish the young girl good luck. I think that obviously she`s in a traumatic state right now and hopefully she can abide by her father and run.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Evangeline Gomez?

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you hope she`s going to get faith and you hope we`re not going to read that they found her body somewhere.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I pray -- no, no.

GOMEZ: And that`s what everyone is praying that it doesn`t happen. As for the parent, the sole surviving parent, everyone`s heart, I`m sure, goes out to him and they`re giving him strength at this time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose, how does it turn from a crush to murder?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Oh, goodness, Jane. It`s unthinkable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll tell you how. If he`s putting his hands on her and mom walks in the room, that`s a possibility.

ROSE: Right. It is a possibility. Thank goodness we hear she`s a smart girl and thank goodness America is mobilized to find this monster. Thank God.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And thank you, fantastic panel. We`ve had a lot of exclusive guests. So thank you for your patience.

And speaking of incredible guests, up next, we`re going to talk to in the Josh Young case, this baby-faced defendant`s former foster dad -- the good dad. Not the monster dad, the good dad.

On the other side.


JOSH YOUNG, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TREY ZWICKER: I love my dad more than anybody in this world. I would rather be with him than anybody else in this world. Being with my dad is better than being anywhere else.




JOSH GOUKER, CONVICTED MURDERER: That`s what we wanted them to think, that Josh did it because he was a juvenile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is absolutely no supporting credible evidence.

YOUNG: I love my dad more than anybody in this world. And I`d rather be with him than anybody in this world.

JASON MOSS, FORMER JAIL MATE OF JOSH GOUKER: He said that he didn`t have to do much persuasion, because his son was a demon child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a good kid.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, the prosecution rests in the Joshua Young trial. The defense says they haven`t proven their case that this baby- faced defendant, this child, allegedly helped his demonic ex-con dad brutally murder 14-year-old Trey Zwicker, Little Josh`s stepbrother. And this is the poor innocent victim, 14-year-old who was beaten to death.

Now Josh`s dad, this man, Big Josh, his biological father, pleaded guilty to that vicious murder saying he acted alone. But initially he tried to pin the murder on his son, Little Josh. That`s why Little Josh, one of the many reasons why Little Josh is on trial and could go to prison for life is because he`s being tried as an adult.

We have a very special guest with us tonight, Chuck Stoneburner, the former foster father of Little Josh, the young defendant -- out of Louisville, Kentucky. Thank you for joining us, sir.

Everybody said that Little Josh, the defendant was thriving under your care. He was doing great in school. He was getting into computers. And then this monster gets out of prison for assault and robbery, and rips him out of your home. And two months later he`s -- there`s a murder in the home and now he`s on trial.

Do you feel Social Services made a big mistake by taking him out of your happy home?

CHUCK STONEBURNER, FORMER FOSTER FATHER OF JOSH YOUNG: I think they did the best they could at the time. Gouker, as I understand him more and more, is a manipulator with -- just unbelievably capable of manipulating systems and people. And I think that`s what he`s done in this case, in all different aspects that we look at, not only the social services but with the defendants and the prosecution in this case. He`s just manipulated so many people that it`s hard to tell what the true story is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Little Josh, the defendant, your former foster son, has been described by some people as an innocent, nice, quiet boy. And by other people, including his monster father -- as a demon seed, demon child, a tough kid who would very easily pick up a bat or a pipe and beat somebody to death to please and win approval with his violent father. What do you say? You lived with him.

STONEBURNER: Yes, we -- Josh lived at our house for over seven months, 24/7. And I didn`t see any of that. He played. We ate together. We did work around the house together. None of that was Josh -- Josh Young. He was a great kid in school, great kid around the house. So to say that about Josh is just another one of Gouker`s manipulations.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, hang on, sir. I appreciate you joining us.

A short break and then I have another question, do you want him back if he`s found not guilty? Stay right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day, send your pet pics to

Isis -- oh my God, you are the nicest Isis. I love you. Cozy -- comfy cozy and I love your bandanna. That`s totally cool. And let`s see. Nova -- she`s elegant. And obviously, black is the new black. Sammy -- he says, "I`m simple but I`m all-American and I`m just gorgeous."



YOUNG: I love my dad more than anybody in this world. And I`d rather be with him than anybody in this world. Being with my dad is better than being anywhere else.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chuck Stoneburner, the former foster father of Little Josh Young now on trial and could spend the rest of his life behind bars. First of all, I applaud you for your work as a foster dad. Does it hurt when you hear that your former foster son would have done anything and loved his biological dad who is this violent, vicious ex-con?

STONEBURNER: Yes, it does, but in our training to be foster parents, we understood that every child -- of course, depending on their situation - - but just about every child wants that reunification with their parent. And for Josh, it was no different. His mother is deceased. So the only person he had left was his dad.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a yes or no question because we are almost out of time. If he is found not guilty, would you take him back?

STONEBURNER: Yes, we would.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s a great short answer and I just want to applaud you. You are, obviously, the person he should have stayed with. If he had stayed with you and your family, he wouldn`t be sitting in the defendant`s chair right now and I hope that, I hope in some way, shape or form that you get to at least foster another child and save that other child from this horror. Thank you, sir, I applaud you.

STONEBURNER: Thank you, Nancy (SIC). Thank you.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so heartbreaking to know that like that`s the only bit of mercy and love that they`ve had their entire lives. It`s so, so heartbreaking.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, little Rico, we`re talking about beautiful, intelligent animals just like you being systematically mistreated across the globe. Pigs crammed into gestation carts on factory farms, unable to ever turn around, beaten, abused, crammed, mercilessly slaughtered. If anybody treated a dog like this, they would be charged with animal cruelty. Yet pigs, so similar to dogs we are now learning are routinely forced to suffer.

Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pigs like Nikki are some of the smartest animals on earth, even smarter than the dogs and cats we live with. Like dogs, pigs are loyal and affectionate and they love a good belly rug.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to Farm Sanctuary`s Bruce Friedrich. Bruce, you`ve started a campaign to compare pigs to dogs because of the wide difference in how they`re treated. Tell us about that.

BRUCE FRIEDRICH, FARM SANCTUARY: Yes, Jane, that campaign is called The Someone Project. And it`s actually focused on all farm animals. And the point of the campaign is to say, look, we all know dogs and cats very well, we know them as individuals. We would never cram them into tiny pens. We would never slit their throats open while they`re still conscious. Most of us would never -- you know we recoil in horror at the idea of eating a dog or a cat. And our point is that there is no rational difference between eating a chicken or a cat, a pig or a dog. And in fact, chickens and pigs outperform dogs and cats on scientific tests, both of behavioral and cognitive sophistication.

So it`s just one example. Pigs outperform even chimpanzees if their capacity to play video games.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And look at these -- look at these images. Those are pigs now on the way to slaughter and a group -- there`s a group actually in Toronto called the Toronto Pig Rescue that runs up with water to the trucks carrying pigs to slaughter and gives them water because there was over 110 degrees and they were in this sweltering, sweltering truck.

Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so heart breaking to know that like that`s the only like bit of mercy and love that they`ve had their entire lives. It`s so, so heart breaking.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are people becoming aware of A, the conditions that these pigs are kept in, the pig gestation crates, the crammed trucks going to slaughter? And are you getting a sense that Americans, decent people who love animals, I find that everywhere I go, are starting to say, we got to change this?

FRIEDRICH: Yes, 97 percent of Americans want to see animals protected from abuse. And yet what happens on modern farms and in modern slaughterhouse would warrant cruelty charges if dogs or cats were similarly abused.

So pigs and chickens raised for their eggs, they are crammed in tiny crates. They never spread their wings. They never go outside. They never see sunshine. And you something like what Toronto Pig Save is doing in this video. And it pulls at the heart strings of everybody who sees it.

The challenge isn`t to say, "Gosh, that`s real sad." The challenge is to say "What am I doing that supports cruelty when I could be supporting compassion." Everybody who`s eating meat has the ability to stop eating meat and choose mercy over misery, choose kindness over cruelty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to cut you off. Oppose the King amendment, which would wipe out any protections.

Nancy, next.