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CNN NEWSROOM
Eric Holder Speaks on Criminal Justice Changes; Verdict in James "Whitey" Bulger Case; Push for Bob Filner to Resign.
Aired August 12, 2013 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: They -- now let's be honest -- some of the enforcement priorities that we have set have had a destabilizing effect on particular communities, largely poor and of color. Applied inappropriately, they are ultimately counter productive. This is why I have today mandated a modification of the Justice Department's charging policy so that certain low-level, nonviolent drug offenders, who have no ties to large-scale organizations gangs or cartels, will no longer be charged with offenses that impose draconian mandatory minimum sentences. They --
(APPLAUSE)
HOLDER: They now will be charged with offenses for which the accompanying sentences are better suited to their individual conduct rather than excessive prison terms more appropriate for violent criminals or drug kingpins. By reserving the most severe penalties for serious, high-level or violent drug traffickers we can better promote public safety, deterrence and rehabilitation while making our expenditures smarter and more productive. We have seen that this approach has bipartisan support in Congress, where a number of Senators including Dick Durbin, Patrick Leahy, Mike Lee and Rand Paul, have introduced what I think is very common-sense legislation aimed at giving federal judges more discretion in applying mandatory minimums to certain drug offenders. Such legislation ultimate will save our country billions of dollars while keeping us more safe. The president and I look forward to working with members of both parties to refine and to advance these proposals.
Second, the department has now updated its frame work for considering compassionate release for inmates facing extraordinary or compelling circumstances and who pose no threat to the public. Today, the Bureau of Prisons expanded the criteria which will be considered for inmates seeking compassionate release. Today, I can announce additional expansions to our policy including revised criteria for elderly inmates who did not commit violent crimes and who have served significant portions of their sentences.
Of course, as our primary responsibility, we must ensure the American public is protected from anyone who may pose a danger to the community. But considering the applications of nonviolent offenders through a careful review process that ultimate allows judges to consider whether release is warranted is the fair thing to do. It's the smart thing to do as well because it will enable us to use our limited resources to house those who pose the greatest threat. Finally, my colleagues and I are taking steps to identify and share best practices for enhancing the use of diversion programs such as drug treatment and community service initiatives that can serve as effective alternatives to incarceration. Our U.S. attorneys are leading the way in this regard, working alongside the judiciary to meet safety imperatives while avoiding incarceration in certain cases. In South Dakota, a joint federal tribal program has helped to prevent at-risk young people from getting involved in the federal prison system thereby improving live, saving taxpayer resources, and keeping communities safer. This is exactly the kind of proven innovation that federal policy makers and state and tribal leaders should emulate. And it's why the Justice Department has begun a program called the Justice Readjustment Initiative --
(END LIVE FEED)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: You've been listening to Attorney General Eric Holder. He's speaking to the American Bar Association in San Francisco, outlining plans to change the way some low-level drug offenders are sentenced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLDER: By targeting the most serious offenses, prosecuting the most dangerous criminals, directing assistance to crime hot spots, and pursuing new ways to promote public safety, deterrence, efficiency and fairness, we in the federal government can become both smarter and tougher on crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
#: So he's saying that the Justice Department will no longer pursue mandatory minimum sentences for certain low-level nonviolent drug offenders. They can't have ties to large-scale organizations or to gangs or cartels. Some criteria there that must be looked at before these mandatory sentences are imposed.
Let's bring in CNN legal analyst, Sunny Hostin, a former federal prosecutor, and justice correspondent, Evan Perez, who broke this story last week.
Good to see you.
Sunny, let's start with you.
This is a pretty big shift in policy. Explain the significance of what the attorney general is doing and why people sitting at home listening to him should care about this.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST & FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Sure. I think certainly it's a possible shift that has been in the making for some time. Federal prosecutors, federal judges, quite frankly, federal juries have been dismayed with this mandatory minimum sentencing of these low-level drug offenders. It takes the discretion away from the prosecutor and the judge. I've got to tell you, when I was prosecuting, it was displaying to me. You have to follow the law as a federal prosecutor but when know you're prosecuting someone that is low level and likely to be put in jail for 10 or more years that's difficult thing to do.
People should be certainly cognizant of this and happy about it. It makes sense. It's smarter on crime. What we've seen is you prosecute and imprison. You don't rehabilitate. You don't do any of these diversionary tactics that have proven time and time again, Pamela, to be very helpful in terms of the war on crime. We're seeing the lead prosecutor saying we're going to change how we charge these cases. We're going to change not only that but we're going to change how we deal with folks once they get out of prison. And I think when you look at that sort of comprehensive reform, that makes for stronger law enforcement and for a stronger society. I think this is a really significant change that we're hearing from the attorney general.
BROWN: In one way, Sunny, basically he would change the instructions for prosecutors. Is that right? This is way to get around Congress?
HOSTIN: I think so. Again, we have had these sort of sentencing guidelines and at one point were mandatory. The judges couldn't deviate. Then you heard, well, these sentencing guidelines are advisory. Now you're hearing, we're not going to regulate it because it's been shown that Congress has such a log jam in terms of changing things legislatively. What we're hearing now is the government is going to change how they prosecute or charge these cases. These cases, these low-level offenders never get into the system in that way.
That's a pretty smart way of doing it. I think many people would prefer there was a legislative change but it's a beginning. We know there are certain changes that have been proposed and perhaps we'll see legislative changes in the future. There's a lot of support for it.
BROWN: We're already seeing it on the state level with Texas and Kentucky.
Evan, you first reported this story last week. What is Holder trying to accomplish here? What are some of his goals?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: One of the issues of the attorney general is he's leaving office in the next couple of months, everyone expects. One of the things he's focused on and President Obama in the second term is trying to do some things for their own legacy that people would remember them for. In the case of Eric Holder, he doesn't want to be remembered for Fast and Furious and some of the other controversies. This is a good way to do something towards the African-American communities, the minority communities that make up a very large share of the prison population. This is an issue, as Sunny pointed out, that there's been a lot of movement towards. We've gone through several years of more than reduction of crimes in the cities. I think they feel like the moment is right. Right now, you have members of Congress on the Republican Party who have decided this is a good way for them to save money. It's probably a very good moment. As good a moment as any for them to pursue something like this.
BROWN: You look at the issue, we spent $80 billion last year on our prison system. And as we just heard Eric Holder say, our prisons are operating at 40 percent over capacity. Something needs to be done.
Evan Perez, Sunny Hostin, thank you so much for your analysis. We appreciate it.
As we heard, attorney General Eric Holder says it's time to stop treating low-level offenders like drug kingpins.
Let's get analyst from the White House. Jessica Yellin joins us now from there.
Jessica, Holder says this is just one step in directing sentencing disparities. You have some details on discussions from the Trayvon Martin case. Tell us about that.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela. You heard the attorney general, he said in his speech that he and the president have talked about this issue, and it is an issue that's been important to both of those men for many years. The president, as you might recall, championed laws fighting racial profiling when still a state Senator in Illinois. This is a legacy issue for President Obama, something he wants to continue to pursue in his second term. I think you'll hear him continue to talk about this when he gets back from Martha's Vineyard, and you'll hear other officials press on it as well.
He mentioned in his remarks -- we didn't air it, but the attorney general referenced the president's comments after the Trayvon Martin verdict. I'll read a bit what the president said. He said, "The African-American community is knowledgeable that there's a history of racial disparity in the application of our criminal laws, everything from the death penalty to enforcement of drug laws." That's something the president pointed out when we came to the briefing room that Friday afternoon when we were all standing there. He gave such emotional remarks. This is something you see is deeply personal.
Important to them, you mentioned, they want to do it on the federal level but they also see two bills in the Senate that both men think could get some traction. I think they will be working with Congress to try to get something done.
BROWN: We will have to wait and see. This seems like a bipartisan issue here.
Thank you so much, Jessica Yellin.
We do have breaking news to share with you in the "Whitey" Bulger case. There's been a conviction. We'll tell you about that conviction right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have breaking news to share. There's been a verdict reached for James "Whitey" Bulger in Boston. We have learned the verdict was reached today after five days of deliberation by the jury, an eight-man, four-woman panel. We're still waiting to find out about the verdict. We know that "Whitey" Bulger was charged with racketeering, accused in 19 murders, 13 counts of extortion and money laundering. They won't come out until that verdict is read and we're waiting for that.
We have Sunny Hostin standing by to offer legal analysis.
What's your expectation on this?
HOSTIN: They have been deliberating for quite some time. They asked a lot of questions about what are called predicate acts. There are two significant counts here. One is, is he guilty of conspiracy, racketeering conspiracy. That's a possible life sentence. We already know the defendant is in his 80s. The second part they have been struggling with is the substantive offenses underneath racketeering. Did he conspire to murder people? Was he money laundering with others? There were 33 separate acts he's been charged with. We will learn the jury did not agree on all 33. Even if they agreed on a few of them, say money laundering and conspiracy for murder, he's looking at a possible life sentences. A defendant, this age, in his 80s, is in effect a life sentence.
This case was tried in a very tight way. It was very concise and, for a federal case, in terms of racketeering, which is difficult to try in front of a jury, this prosecution team did a good job. There was some testimony by reformed gangsters that were really quite, I think, effective for this jury. Very emotional. A lot of victims' families were in this courtroom. A lot of these former mafia members were really honest in testifying in talking about how they killed people at Bulger's behest. I suspect we're going to learn that he may have been found guilty of conspiring to murder several people because that evidence, in particular, was very compelling.
BROWN: The jury really had their work cut out for them. More than 70 witnesses over the course of the seven weeks of the trial and over 800 exhibits compiled. It's not surprising it's taken about five days to come up with this verdict.
HOSTIN: It's not. There's this rule of thumb we use as lawyers in criminal cases. For every day of testimony, there's likely an hour of deliberation. You're talking about 35 hours of deliberations and we're probably right at about that point. On Friday, I think we were in our 25th hour, 28th hour. This is about right for a jury like this. They've asked a lot of questions and many of the questions were really well informed. Some of jury instructions, I thought, were a bit confusing and they asked for clarification and they got it. I think this jury worked very hard and for a federal case, a RICO case, conspiracy case, very difficult to try, very difficult for juries to digest. This jury clearly worked very hard.
BROWN: Sunny Hostin, thank you for your analysis.
We'll bring you that verdict, live, when we have it.
Thank you so much.
Out of rehab and back in the office. The San Diego mayor accused of harassing 14 women leaves therapy earlier than expected. And his constituents are angrier than ever. We'll tell you about that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Breaking news at this hour. We have just learned that a jury has reached a verdict in the trial of the federal racketeering trial of reputed mob boss, "Whitey" Bulger. We're taking a live look at the courtroom where that jury has come up with the verdict after nearly five days of deliberations, 32 hours. We do have reporters in that courtroom. We're going to bring you that verdict, live, when we have it. We're expecting it to come within 15 to 20 minutes from now. We'll keep you updated on that story.
We want to turn to San Diego. That's where Mayor Bob Filner is out of rehab. But he might not be back in office any time soon. A number of women have accused Filner of sexual harassment. Now we've learned two women who survived actual assaults say Filner harassed them at a support group meeting.
Our Kyung Lah has exclusive details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): San Diego Mayor Bob Filner is believed to be back in the city he governs after checking out of rehab a week before he said he would publicly finish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are kind of shaking their heads and saying, you know, it's ridiculous. Why is it continuing?
LAH: Filner's residents overwhelmingly want him to stay away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really, Mayor? You did what you did and now you want to stay as mayor? Bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you're not staying as mayor.
LAH: Voters aren't the only ones. U.S. Senator and fellow Democrat Barbara Boxer writing an open letter to Filner said, "You must resign." She adds, "The latest revelations regarding women recovering from sexual assault have shaken me to my core."
SEN. BARBARA BOXER, (D), CALIFORNIA: They predators.
LAH: The Senator is talking about CNN's exclusive interview with these two women, both former military and rape survivors, who say they were then harassed by Bob Filner at a support meeting.
Filner, the former chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, was invited into their women's veteran's group, seen as a champion of their cause.
ELDONNA LEWIS FERNANDEZ, RETIRED MASTER SERGEANT, U.S. AIR FORCE: We're all victims of military sexual assault and it appears to me that he was targeting this organization and hitting on the women in this organization because they were easy prey.
LAH: The city attorney's office, the sheriff's department and the California attorney general's office all working on investigating the mayor.
Filner's chief of staff reportedly changed the locks on the mayor's office to preserve what he calls potential evidence.
The mayor remains on personal leave under the growing chorus for him to resign.
Kyung Lah, CNN, San Diego.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: At this hour we are watching for the "Whitey" Bulger trial. A verdict has been reached, we have learned just moments ago. This is a live look here over the courthouse there in Boston where the trial has been taking place. We do have reporters inside that courtroom and we hope to learn the verdict soon. Of course, we'll keep you updated.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here we go on this Monday, big, big news day as we have just gotten word there has been a verdict reached in the two-month trial of the reputed mob boss, James "Whitey" Bulger.
Let me just run through -- there are 32 different counts. Let me hone in on the two different counts that are -- these are the biggies. These are what we're waiting for. Let me be crystal clear. Obviously, this is federal court as we've been watching in Boston. Cameras are not allowed. Let me run through some of these key counts. As soon as we get word as far as what this verdict entails, we'll bring that to you live on CNN. Number one, this count one, racketeering conspiracy. This could -- with count one, he could be facing a maximum sentence of life. He could face up to life in prison. Even though Bulger is accused of having a role here of 19 different killings, he is not specifically charged with murder. But we can talk about that because that could come into play post-verdict here in Boston.
We have Deborah Feyerick. She's been covering the trial for us. She's been in the courtroom. We will see what Deb has as soon as we know that the -- once the verdict is read. We have Sunny Hostin standing by, former federal prosecutor, CNN legal analyst.
And, Sunny, as we look at these pictures, and I can only imagine the crush of media inside and surrounding this federal courthouse there in Boston, this has been -- this has been a huge, huge deal. This is a man who was on the run for, you know, nearly two decades. He was found in Santa Monica with his girlfriend living blocks from the beach. He has been fighting much of this. But we'll keep in mind this is an 83-year-old man. A lot of this has to do with his legacy and not quite as much as when it comes to life in prison. But talk me through these two key counts, beginning with racketeering, conspiracy. What does that entail?
HOSTIN: Sure. I mean, they are the two key counts because as you just mentioned, there are a bunch of charges --
BALDWIN: Yeah.
HOSTIN: -- like extortion and other things. Count one, he's charged with racketeering conspiracy. That he conspired to do several different things that the government alleges. Some of those things are conspiracy to murder certain people, to murder members of another group, to murder somebody named Michael Milano (ph). About 19 murders he has been accused of playing a role in. He's also been accused by the government of money laundering, which is something that we do see in these types of cases, in these mafia cases. He's also been accused, Brooke, of extortion of several people. And so I think what is significant about this case, as you mentioned, is the tortured history. Because we know that, at one point, he was even an FBI informant.
BALDWIN: Right.
HOSTIN: And then apparently got -- or allegedly got tipped off by an FBI agent and then he went on the run for almost two decades. And so the fact that he is now facing life in prison is just so significant in the history of the FBI, in the history of these types of federal RICO cases. I think one of the reasons why so many people have been watching this case, because it's so unusual in the history.
