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Hannah Anderson`s First Appearance

Aired August 15, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Hannah Anderson posts new and revealing photos of her mother and brother, with a handwritten note of hope. Is this how the kidnapped teen is coping with her abduction ordeal?

And she`s back, tan mom, out of rehab. Is she still drinking? Is she still denying? Is she still tanning?

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening, everyone.

My co-host is Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on Young Turks Network.

And we begin with some breaking news. Kidnap victim Hannah Anderson made her first public appearance today since her rescue, five days ago. She showed up just 90 minutes ago at a fund-raiser for her family.

We`re asking ourselves, though, is she really OK? She looks good, but is she as OK as she seems? Especially now as we`re hearing the details of the ordeal she has gone through.

Sam, it`s really quite amazing. Take a look at this.


KATE BOLDUAN, CNN: Newly released search warrants paint a gruesome scene inside the home of James DiMaggio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grisly new details.

RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: The day that he abducted her, phone records show that they called each other, approximately 13 times.

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: We know Uncle Jim said "I love you", and confessed his feelings before he took her away. I always wonder if there was a sexual relationship.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m positive that he had a suicidal plan. The fact that he took his cat out into the wilderness with him, that he had saved before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, home, Anderson has quickly taken to social media.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was kind of surprising, to see her posting things online, but, again, she is just trying to get the truth out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most recently posting these pictures to her Instagram. "My two beautiful angels."

PINSKY: It`s like saying, hey, I`m here, I`m alive! I`m still here.


PINSKY: Joining us, investigative reporter, Nicole Partin.

Nicole, what is the latest on Hannah and the investigation into her abduction?

NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Dr. Drew, breaking news tonight. We`ve obtained more search warrants that contain details around the salacious items found in DiMaggio`s garage. Items like condoms, handcuff boxes, hand-written notes and balloons all found in the same garage as Christina`s lifeless body.

Also, we`re learning that Hannah has just made that live public appearance at a fund-raiser tonight. This after she takes down her profile, but continues to post pictures on her Instagram.

And other details emerging from those unsealed warrants -- a flurry of phone calls between DiMaggio and his sister on the day of the crime.

PINSKY: Thank you, Nicole.

Joining us, attorney and host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery, Darren Kavinoky, attorney Anahita Sedaghatfar, HLN host Lynn Berry, and Dean Obeidallah, contributor to "Daily Beast" and

Lynn Berry, you first. What do you make of what we`re hearing so far?

LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: You know, Nicole just touched on a few of the things. This is the search warrant that was just released. It`s 28 pages long. The information is really shocking.

There weren`t just condoms, there were two used condoms that were recovered. But we`re also talking about, did they know that this house was detonated by some explosive device? They found shotgun shells, cartridges, wiring -- I mean, this is like out of a Hollywood movie, where this guy is like a telecom technician turned psychopath.

And all of the details of these letters, they`re lettered from Hannah. So, these are lettered written by Hannah retrieved from the home. Police are not saying what those letters contained. They`re not going into any details, and they say there are some things about this case they`re not going to talk about.

PINSKY: I`m assuming, Lynn, we`re going to find out what`s in those letters as time goes along.

Anahita, in the green room, we were talking about the salacious contents of his home and it`s funny, Lynn picked right up on that. I think you described it in the green room as gross, if I remember right.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s absolutely gross, Dr. Drew. And I`m not quite sure what the implication is or the insinuation is, but I know that anyone who insinuated that this 16-year-old girl was anything other than a victim is absolutely reprehensible.

I mean, I`m not, you know, a medical doctor, I`m not a psychologist, but it is possible that she was manipulated by this guy, brainwashed by this guy, maybe she did have some type of Stockholm syndrome type of thing going on. And if that`s the case, I would venture to say she`s even more of a victim and more in need of our understanding and compassion.

PINSKY: I absolutely, absolutely agree. And, go ahead. Finish this up. No.

SEDAGHATFAR: If that`s the case, I think that she -- I`m sorry.

PINSKY: This is -- we have like -- I`ve got to tell our viewers this. I know we have these delays in the satellite, so by the time Anahita hears me calling upon her, we, the viewers have watched a few seconds of silence.

So I apologize for that. And then we talk over each other, which I try to control, but I continue to try to control, but it makes it quite a challenging affair.

Anahita, would you like to finish?

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. So I was saying, anyone who`s insinuating that, I think it`s very insulting, and if indeed this girl was somehow brainwashed by this disgusting predator, this creep, then she deserves more of our sympathy. And quite frankly, you don`t play blame the victim when the victim is a 16-year-old little girl.



And, Dean, we`re hearing now, not only could this have been sort of a mind control, for lack of a better way of describing it, but she, in some of that intersection she had on or, I guess it was,, that she was told that she was just being used to sort of haul equipment up to the river, that it wasn`t because he love her or planned the to do anything with her, she was just the mule up the hill.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, CNN.COM CONTRIBUTOR: I will say one thing, we live in a society where people do blame the victim. And it`s really unfortunate and actually despicable in the case of a 16-year-old girl. Where today reporters went to the police station and it had to be reconfirmed that this woman was under duress when she was taken.

And, you know, but there are questions, I think, that people have. Like, why was the -- why was her brother and mother tortured and killed?

You know, the man -- Mr. DiMaggio had taken the girl on trips before, to Malibu, to Hollywood. Why not just kidnap her, if that was all he wanted? So, I think there are some things missing. But we, cynically, immediately say, maybe there`s some relationship going on between Hannah and she was agreeing to it. And to me, that is so wrong.

BERRY: Well, I don`t know that a lot of people -- I don`t know that a lot of people are blaming Hannah, by any means. I think it`s more so, we`re learning new details that we didn`t know before about what they found in DiMaggio`s home, and they lead to the fact that DiMaggio was a sicko. He detonated --

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I`ve seen a lot of --

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: There`s no question that DiMaggio --

SEDAGHATFAR: I disagree with that. I`ve seen tons of things online, where people are --


KAVINOKY: Look. First things first, Dr. Drew, I think you and Samantha did an unbelievable job of coordinating your outfits.

PINSKY: Thank you.

KAVINOKY: I have to say, the polka dots --

PINSKY: Thank you, the polka dots -- by the way, Darren, I like the checkers. I, myself, have picked that a couple of times since I`ve seen you sporting the checkers.

KAVINOKY: I`m glad I could inspire you, as you`ve inspired me. Look, when we`re talking about DiMaggio, there`s one thread to this. I mean, clearly, this guy is more than felony stupid. This guy had absolutely two scoops of crazy going on, and that is a medical term.

And, yes, she`s 16 years old. So whatever the nature of their relationship is, more will be revealed, whatever it turns out to have been. Clearly, she`s a victim, even if anything physical did happen between them, and even if it were consensual, by law, she`s deemed incapable of providing that consent.

PINSKY: And I will tell you, Darren, one more thing -- go ahead.

KAVINOKY: Yes, when we look at the search warrant and some of the material there, there seems to be some inappropriate communication going on between DiMaggio and his sister. And frankly, I would not be surprised if later on, there turns out to be a criminal filing or at least some investigation going on that documents that there were numerous phone calls that happened between DiMaggio and his sister on the day that Hannah went missing.

And so this, then, arouses within me, the suspicion that there could be either an accessory after the fact, or somehow she was complicit or aided or abetted in all of this. There could be an investigation here.

PINSKY: And right now, all we do have is what Hannah posted on So, let`s look at some of that now.

She wrote how -- someone asked her, how did he keep the fire a secret? Hannah responded to that, he had it set where it would catch fire at a certain time. So, in other words, he had these incendiary devices to go off long after they were gone.

And we`re learning more about DiMaggio. According to a friend, he was suicidal. The same friend said, as you had mentioned, Darren, about the sister. Apparently, the sister and he had been victims of verbal and physical abuse at the hands of their father, who is described as a heavy methamphetamine user, and let`s remember DiMaggio himself had threatened a 16-year-old girl in a similar fashion back in the 1980s.

My question, for the panel is, who shall I go to with this? Well, Darren, you seem anxious to talk, I`ll go to you. Does that create any empathy at all for this DiMaggio character?

KAVINOKY: Well, yes and no. I mean, look, how often do we see it that these kind of cycles of inappropriate behavior, wildly inappropriate behavior, are intergenerational? And this is something that sadly, all too --

PINSKY: Darren, I`m going to interrupt you. I know we have all this trouble. I`ve got to interrupt, because I`m going to say, of course, intergenerational trauma is transmitted, of course, it`s up and it goes from one generation to the next.

But, Lynn, I saw you shaking your head. I`m agreement in with you, but you do not excuse the behavior, you get help before they hurt somebody else.

KAVINOKY: I was going there!

PINSKY: Well, let`s have Lynn go there because she disagreed with you just when you started. Go ahead, Lynn.

BERRY: It just boggles my mind, to possibly say, because his father was emotionally and physically abusive, was a methamphetamine user, and he was, this is what the friend is saying, yeah, terrible, horrible. But I`m sorry, that is absolutely -- and there are a lot of people that come from abusive homes that doesn`t give anyone the pass or any sympathy. I can`t associate any sympathy with this case. It`s too disturbing.

PINSKY: I could have sympathized with him a few years ago. Now I want the force of God to come down upon him and I thank God that it did.

Thank you, panel.

Next, my forensic expert, Dr. Bill Lloyd joins us. We`ll get his theory about what happened to Hannah`s mother and brother.

And later, was it murder or was it suicide? Molly Young`s closest friend says she struggled with dark thoughts. He will join me in the behavior bureau, back after this.



CNN REPORTER: Her mother and younger brother were murdered, their bodies burned if DiMaggio`s house. They found a crowbar and what appeared to be blood on the ground next to Christina Anderson`s body.

COSBY: They really arrived to a very terrible scene. They saw feet popping out of a tarp in the garage. Hannah`s mother was laying facedown, she was dead.


PINSKY: We`re back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher.

And we have breaking news. Hannah Anderson made her first public appearance today. She was appearing at a fund-raiser for her family, this now just a week after her rescue, less than a week.

Still with us: Dean Obeidallah, Anahita Sedaghatfar, Lynn Berry. Joining us, pathologist Dr. Bill Lloyd.

Lynn, what happened to you? You`re wearing classes. I didn`t recognize you. I wasn`t sure that was you.

BERRY: I need to be able to see Darren Kavinoky`s outfit a little bit clearer. So, I had to put my glasses and just make sure I got a good look at fashion. You know, you`re the fashion guru.

PINSKY: I`m glad we had a little levity. We`re going to get into something kind of heavy here.

BERRY: Absolutely.

PINSKY: So, here, we`re going to talk about the fire that killed Hannah`s mother and brother. Dr. Lloyd, my question is, how does what happened to them affect the interpretation and the conduct of a forensic autopsy?

DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: Well, let`s just go to that first statement that you mentioned earlier, that they both succumbed to the fire. We don`t know that yet. We don`t know exactly how they died. And the amount of information coming through the filter of law enforcement, as you know, is very, very slow in these earlier stages.

We know, of course, that they were dead when they went into the fire itself, but the question still remains, what was the actual cause of death? And certainly, thermal injuries, fire, can destroy an awful lot of evidence. But nonetheless, a qualified medical examiner and his or her team can put together the pieces to identify, was the individual alive before or after the fire was set?

PINSKY: And Dr. Lloyd, did you say that we know that they were dead prior to the fire? And if so, how do you know that?

LLOYD: In fact, that information has not been provided. We know that they found that horrible crowbar next to the mom, suggesting there was some blunt trauma. But let me say this, if you`re still breathing, you`re still alive. So if there`s evidence of soot, debris, burns, or other markings in the mouth or the airways, this is going to educate the medical examiner that these individuals, in fact, were alive and were breathing at the time the fire started.

PINSKY: And just so people understand, when most people succumb to fire, Dr. Lloyd, it`s not actually the burns that take people first, is my understanding, it`s actually smoke inhalation, is it not?

LLOYD: Yes, in household fires, particularly, it`s actually quite a merciful death. You die from asphyxia, the absence of oxygen. All the oxygen is serving as fuel for the fire. There`s no oxygen for the people that are trap inside the room. So, essentially they pass out and very rarely does someone actually die from the thermal injuries themselves. They are already long gone.

But the specter of perhaps being severely injured, tied and gagged, and then knowing that there`s a clock that`s going to go off minutes later or hours later that`s going to ignite the house and you could do nothing about it, can you just imagine the horror?

SCHACHER: I can`t imagine. I can`t.

PINSKY: Yes, it`s awful.

SCHACHER: Torture was also mentioned in the documentation. >

PINSKY: Yes, where did that come in? Dean, do you know where that came from? The idea they had been tortured for the mom and brother, or at least the mom?

OBEIDALLAH: I mean, you keep hearing media reports about it. And I like to see more details. And it makes no sense to me, frankly. If he`s going to kill the mother and brother to cover his tracks and start a fire, why torture them before killing? What went on in that scenario that he did that?

And secondly, this is a man and this is what I really have questions about. He didn`t have a prior criminal record. His father, obviously, grave criminal record. He didn`t have a criminal record. He simply snapped at 40 years old, tortures and kills a brother and mother and abducts a 16-year-old girl.

Are we missing signs or was there nothing there whatsoever for anybody to pick up on?

PINSKY: Yes, I agree with you, there`s got to be something prior, because this idea of snapping. You don`t snap into this kind of behavior.

Anahita, do you agree?

SEDAGHATFAR: I agree with that. I mean, I think what we`re learning today is that this guy was actually more demented, Dr. Drew, than we thought, if that`s even possible. As if murdering this woman and this child wasn`t enough, now we find out he tortured them with this crowbar? And this was a woman who was a lifelong family friend, someone that allowed him access to her children. I think her children called him Uncle Jim?

I mean, I think what this guy -- he didn`t deserve that. I think he deserved to suffer a lot more than he did, quite frankly, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: And, Dr. Lloyd, you and your crowbar have something to say there.

LLOYD: Yes, there`s many different kinds of torture, Dr. Drew. It may not have been physical torture at all, he may have been playing them and teasing them and alerting them to the fact that long after I`m gone, this house is going to go on fire, giving them minutes or hours to prepare themselves, but nonetheless, be fearful of what`s coming ahead. He could have gotten in their head for quite some time before they eventually succumbed.

PINSKY: See, Lynn, when I think about -- I know you`ve been covering this story like I am for days, and when I think about what Dr. Lloyd is implying, I get a sick feeling, and then start feeling bad for Hannah and what she must be going through, and every time she turns on the television, we`re all talking about it.

What do you think?

BERRY: I know. You can only hope she`s not turning on the television and listening. The details are really disturbing. You guys were wondering why they may have thought that Christina Anderson was tortured. In this search warrant, it says there was a handcuff box found. There was duct tape found. I think those are the things they`re pointing to.

But, you know, Dr. Drew, I`m curious from your take. You talked about this in the beginning of the show. But about how Hannah is coping with all of this information, because you can only imagine how hard that is.

And she`s taking to social media and these Instagram posts, it really strikes me. I`m wondering, from you, is this a generational thing? Because for someone like me and in my mid-30s, I cannot imagine hopping on Instagram after a traumatic event and talking about how I`m not processing it.

PINSKY: Yes, I think -- in fact, I wonder if the producers, if you guys have any pictures you we can put up of the Instagram posting, if we have anything like that. But it is something very generational.

Sam, you can relate to it more. You`ve got a lot of young listeners.

SCHACHER: I get it.

PINSKY: But I think she`s going to where her peers are and she`s saying, I`m here, I`m alive, I`m -- you know, she`s sort of asserting the fact that she`s alive, which I think is very healthy. She`s trying to set the record straight, and then she didn`t continue to interact with social media for all of the abuse that would undoubtedly rain down on her, because the way social media is.

Sam, you agree with me?

SCHACHER: Yes, I agree with you 100 percent. And I think you really hit the nail on the head in regard to her wanting to control the rumors. I can`t imagine what type of speculation or rumors that are going around, not only amongst what we see on the media, but amongst her peers.

PINSKY: Yes, remember, her whole life is what`s going on in her high school and what they`re saying and thinking about her. You know, you can just imagine what she has to deal with.

Dr. Lloyd, finish us up.

LLOYD: Yes, no matter how healthy it appears right now, Drew, I think you have to agree that this child needs counseling of some nature to get her through this event and all the trauma that she sustained. Enough Instagram, she needs to sit down and get some help.

PINSKY: Oh, absolutely. And it`s going to take months or years to actually process all of this. There is the shattering experience of having been through something like this, and there is grief, profound grief.

Just any of us -- imagine what it would be like, just to grieve the loss of your mother and brother when you`re 16, it`s unbelievable, and then the context of all of this, and the public nature of it. I agree with you, Dr. Lloyd. Get off public media now and get on with the healing.

Thank you, panel.

Coming up, new details in the death of Molly Young. Her best friend says and will tell us she had a dark side. He`ll tell us what he means when he joins me after this.

And later, guess who comes back. Tan mom. She`s here -- there she is. First TV interview since rehab and she says -- you look great. You look different than last time. I guess you`ll tell me why, after the break.


PINSKY: It is time for our behavior bureau. Welcome back.

My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

Molly Young, 22 years old, found dead in her ex-boyfriend`s apartment, shot once through the head. Her death, initially ruled a suicide, her father thinks she was murdered. Take a look at this.


EX-BOYFRIEND: It`s my ex-girlfriend. I woke up and she`s covered in blood. She`s over dosed. She bled out through the nose.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Richey claims Molly committed suicide, but he seems completely unfazed by her death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy is so calm on the 911 tape, you`d think he was ordering a pizza or something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reporting Minton woke up and discovered Young on the floor of his bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you not wake up if someone next to you shoots herself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A jury of six people found there was not enough evidence to determine the manner of Molly`s death.

PINSKY: What possibly would the motivation be to call this a suicide if it wasn`t?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that there`s a cover-up here. I think that he was mentally cruel to her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He posted a quote from the son of Sam, (INAUDIBLE) drops a lead down upon her head until she`s dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many bullets were in the gun? Was this a game of Russian roulette that they may have been playing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to get all the facts so I can prove what`s going on here.


PINSKY: Joining us, clinical and forensic psychologist Cheryl Arutt, attorney and Sirius XM Radio host Jenny Hutt, criminal investigator Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal", and psychotherapist Wendy Walsh, author of "30-Day Love Detox". And by phone, joining us now, Kyle Johnson, Molly`s best friend.

Kyle, I know this is a tough time and I appreciate you joining us tonight. Can you shed some light for us on molly and what she told you about her relationship with the ex-boyfriend, Richey?

KYLE JOHNSON, MOLLY YOUNG`S FRIEND (via telephone): Well, I`ve always told Molly that her relationship with Richey was not the healthiest and I always advised her to break up with him and never see him again. And I wish that would have happened with all my heart.

By the way she described him to me, it was very, kind of abusive -- not physical, but more of a mental sort of thing.

PINSKY: Emotionally abusive. And we heard last night from her dad. Molly`s father, that Molly had had an abortion. Did she talk about that or did you know about that?

JOHNSON: Yes, I did know about that. I think --

PINSKY: And did you notice -- let me ask you, did she get more depressed immediately following that? I mean, people do.

JOHNSON: I believe she did. I saw her a week before it happened, before I went back to school, and she was -- she was quite torn up, and she physically didn`t look too well.

PINSKY: And, Kyle, you were obviously really close to Molly. What are your thoughts? Do you think this was suicide or do you think something more sinister happened to her?

JOHNSON: I think something more awful happened, just the way, with everything going on with the investigation and all the evidence, all the --

PINSKY: I understand. Jenny has a question for you, Kyle.

Jenny, what do you want to ask?

JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST: First of all, I am so, so sorry. So start with that. My question is, was Molly close to her family? Did she talk to her father about her emotional issues or the problems in the relationship with Richey?

JOHNSON: No, she didn`t discuss that sort of thing with her family. She might have with her sisters, but I know she didn`t with her parents.

PINSKY: And, Kyle, did you see that suicide note? Do you think that was something she wrote that night? The dad was saying it was something previously she had written.

JOHNSON: Yes. I know for certain, this is something that she had previously written, because I saw it before -- I saw it in her room a couple nights, whenever I was hanging out with her before, and it wasn`t --

PINSKY: OK, that is -- I`m going to interrupt you, Kyle, and say that is big news to us here on the behavior panel.

Wendy, do you want to ask us something?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, I want to know what kind of emotion abuse you saw or you were aware of in the relationship?

JOHNSON: Richey -- Molly was not the most sexual person and Richey was quite the opposite, and from things she had told me, I know that it didn`t quite fit with Molly`s sensibilities, so that`s the kind of abuse --

WALSH: So he was either cheating on her or forcing her to do acts that she wasn`t comfortable with?


PINSKY: Or all of the above?

JOHNSON: I think both. I don`t think it was anything out of the ordinary, sexually, but for Molly, it made her uncomfortable.

WALSH: And the sad thing is, these girls with anxious attachment disorder actually get attracted to guys like this. They get closer because of it.

PINSKY: Yes. Well, you`re using a very -- I don`t have time to get into anxious attachment, but you`re right, Wendy. I agree with you. Danine, when Kyle described what that relationship was like, the quality of the abuse, you gave that, aha, that`s what I`m talking about look, what were you thinking?

MANETTE: Because I`m struggling to come up with a motive, Dr. Drew. And so, I really am interested in the history of this relationship. I want to know, how long did they date, why did they break up, how long ago did they break up? I`m just -- if this is a homicide, I need a motive.

PINSKY: Kyle, can you help us with that?

JOHNSON: Well, I actually talked to Richie on Facebook and he actually gave me a number, and he talked to me personally over the phone, and I asked him, what happened. And he gave me the story that I think he`s been giving everybody else, so I didn`t quite believe all that. But the relationship part, he told Molly he would not see this girl and he had been talking to her and texting her. So --

PINSKY: So maybe she found that out the night she showed up in his room, do you think that`s what happened?

JOHNSON: Yes, I`m sure at some point, she did find out about that.

HUTT: But why would that make him kill her? I think that she might have committed suicide in front of him.

PINSKY: She might have. These are all still -- but Kyle has been very helpful. He really has. Kyle, we really thank you for joining us. I`m going to get more from more of my panel as we move along here. We actually have more coming up on Molly Young. And if you have a question for the "Behavior Bureau," go ahead and tweet u us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.

And of course, later, we will switch gears and talk to Patricia Krentcil, tan mom. There she is. She will join me live in her first television interview since coming out of chemical dependency treatment. Do not go away.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s my ex-girlfriend. Yes. I woke up and she`s covered in blood. She overdosed. She bled out through the nose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you said she`s 23?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, what is your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, I`m going to send a name that they have a 10-79

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber, this is Richie. My girlfriend just committed suicide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ll be on our way.




PINSKY: We`re back with the "Behavior Bureau." My co-host is Samantha Schacher. The bureau is still with me. Molly Young died after having been shot in the head. Was it suicide or was it murder? Some of molly`s friends are coming forward saying that molly was, in fact, quite depressed, and one of those friends joins me now by phone.

We`re going to call her Martha. Martha, help us understand what signs of depression you heard Molly speak about or perhaps you saw.

"MARTHA," FRIEND OF MOLLY YOUNG: No, I followed her on Tumblr and she posted some depressing stuff up until her death.

PINSKY: Such as?

"MARTHA": I just remember a lot of sad posts. I remember there was one post about her drinking, and I don`t know if she was drinking and mixing it with any medication. And I remember her posting that she was going to try a different method, and it was one of her last posts.

PINSKY: Cheryl, you sat by quietly while we went through that last panel. You know, we learned something from Kyle. That letter wasn`t written near to the death. It was, I guess, he`d seen it in her room. We`ve heard about these Tumblr posts before.

And as you`ve said, just because somebody`s having suicidal thoughts or ideation, doesn`t mean, of course -- they`re at risk, but doesn`t mean they`re going to complete a suicide. What do you say?

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I was so curious about Kyle`s knowledge also, but I understand that Molly also had a cancer scare. And that these suicidal letters may have been written around that time. I would have loved to have asked him about that.

But I want us to really be cautious about pinning the depression on the fact that she had an abortion. There actually was a huge federal study that C. Everett Coop, the surgeon general back in the 1980s, oversaw about the psychological and physical effects of abortion.

PINSKY: You know, Cheryl, that study has been largely -- that study has been largely put aside, because the incidents of, at least an acute depressive syndrome is so -- I see it so commonly. It was so contrary to our clinical experience. The study didn`t (ph) read on since. And there`s a lot of depressive symptomology after abortions. Jenny, you have something to say?

HUTT: I do. Look, when I heard what Kyle said was that this poor girl didn`t talk to her family. I`m a mom and the thought of this sort of tragedy happening with my kids, it`s then sitting on every level, so I keep feeling like maybe the dad is trying to find another something that went on because he feels so helpless and so bad that it happened like this.

And by the way, to your point, I don`t think anybody deals very -- it`s not easy, can`t be easy to deal after an abortion regardless of your perspective on it. That`s an emotional thing.


PINSKY: Sam first. Sam, go.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: OK. I don`t even think that it is. After all the research that I`ve done, I do not think it`s suicide. I read the police report today, and in the police report, the deputy that was there said that there is suspect because of the fact that the trajectory and the angle of the bullet that he believes that their suspect is standing over the victim or shooting the gun from the bed.

I mean, I think everything about this case reeks of murder and it really infuriates me that people are even believing that it is suicide. If you do the research, I think you`ll agree with me.

PINSKY: And Cheryl, you`re agreeing with that?


PINSKY: Well, Wendy --

ARUTT: Well, here`s the thing, here`s the thing. I just have to say that I know that, Dr. Drew, that you have read a lot of the medical reports and you`ve explained to us how there`s like maybe like a one percent chance that one aspect could have happened in a certain way, but when so many layers and layers of things all would have to happen in that very unlikely way, that`s when I start to go, this can`t possibly be that each of these unlikely things layered upon each other with all of this very suspicious behavior on the part of Richie --


PINSKY: Danine, what do you think?

MANETTE: This case is kind of driving me crazy, because there`s just too much we don`t know. Where was the roommate? This is an apartment building. Did nobody hear the gunshots? I understand he was supposed to be passed out drunk. But where was everybody else?

PINSKY: They did -- I read the coroner`s report, and they interviewed lots of people in the vicinity and no one heard anything.


PINSKY: Because, it`s like putting the gun on an apple or potato --


ARUTT: How can you not hear gunshot?

PINSKY: You can baffle the sound.

SCHACHER: It gets muffled.

MANETTE: I just don`t understand, there`s so much that`s not known about this case. It`s so frustrating. I went from thinking it was suicide to now wondering if it was homicide. I don`t know.

PINSKY: I know. We`re all doing the same thing. Wendy, finish me up.

WALSH: OK. Here`s a woman who`s committed -- who has attempted suicide before, has publicly said she`s looking for another method. This is a guy who`s been trying to break up with her or at least had been trying to cheat on her, yet on the phone, he calls her his girlfriend. He says --

MANETTE: Ex-girlfriend and then girlfriend.


WALSH: I do think he did sleep through the gunshot. I had a boyfriend once who slept through the Northridge earthquake and wondered why he woke up with broken China in the room, OK? You can -- on drugs and alcohol, you can sleep very heavy. But, really, what is the motive of this guy? I`m not clear.

I do think that she might have finally picked another method and her method was to have vengeance on him by doing it in his house.

PINSKY: We will have to leave it at that. Next up -- thank you, panel -- I have tan mom, Patricia Krentcil joins me live in her first television interview since treatment for alcoholism. Back after this.

VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," Halle Berry and Jennifer Garner, no, no, not in studio, but they were asking for new laws against paparazzi.

RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: Really? So what`s it like, Vinnie, to have your picture taken all the time?

POLITAN: It never happens.

SMITH: Yes, it does.

POLITAN: Ask my kids.

SMITH: -- protect celebrities from the paparazzi? That`s the bold question before our jury. They are ready tonight. You look good --

POLITAN: Top of the hour on "HLN After Dark."



PINSKY: "Tan Mom," two words that grabbed headlines this year and a face that shocked the country.

PATRICIA KRENTCIL, "TAN MOM": Wow! I really am dark. I didn`t realize it, to be honest with you.

PINSKY: Was there something impairing your ability to see that?


PINSKY: So, this was at a fundraiser, red carpet, and something went wrong.

KRENTCIL: I don`t drink. Occasionally, I might have a glass of wine.

PINSKY: Patricia, to my eye, you are intoxicated. and let`s just be honest about it.

KRENTCIL: I do fall all the time. I`ve got plates in my head and exhaustion, stress, five children.

PINSKY: Let`s be fair, that was intoxicated.


DANA RAMOS, AUTHOR, "THE BEAUTY REGIME": And also, Dr. Drew, your producers know that she was sick and was on cold medication. You know that.

PINSKY: Wait, if we`re going to be real here, let`s be real. Let`s not blame things on cold medicine -- stop, stop it! Let`s stop with the cold medicine, let`s stop with the -- I`m just wild. Let`s talk about what`s real here.


PINSKY: Time again for the "Behavior Bureau." Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher, Jenny Hutt, Cheryl Arutt, and Wendy Walsh, and joining us, Patricia Krentcil better known as tan mom in her first primetime interview since leaving rehab.

All right, Patricia, let`s talk about what`s real. That was intoxication. Look at you. Look how great you look now! Look how fantastic you look! You ready to be honest this time?

KRENTCIL: Yes. Yes, i am.

PINSKY: All right. So, what was going on there? How much were you drinking?

KRENTCIL: Two bottles a day.

PINSKY: And what motivated you to get sober?

KRENTCIL: I hit rock bottom and I was willing to go and get well and admit my problems and I -- forgive me. I just was sick of being tired, sick of being sick, and I was sick. And I was just like mentally, physically, you name it, sick. And worn out, you name it. Just all. But, you know, drinking all the time. I was depressed. I was everything.

PINSKY: OK. How you feeling now?

KRENTCIL: I feel great! I`m sober. I`m healthy. I`m happy.

PINSKY: How many days?

KRENTCIL: Forty-eight.

SCHACHER: Congratulations.

PINSKY: Well, congratulations, except, I heard you on Stearn (ph) a couple of days ago and you said 50-something days. Was that just a miscalculation or do you have a little slip in there?

KRENTCIL: I think I probably messed up. Yes. Forgive me on that. Yes, 48 days. I believe. Yes. Pretty sure, sir.

PINSKY: All right. Are you going to meetings regularly? Do you have a sponsor?

KRENTCIL: I go to counseling. And I have -- I go to meetings here and there, not regularly. I do it for a touchup. I don`t particularly believe in AA. Why? Back to my childhood, I have issues with that. Valid issues. But I got it this time with Dr. Kelly at the Wilkins Institute, and Gena Rodriguez brought me to Michael Lohan who they got me in there and helped me.

PINSKY: Yes, but I guarantee you, I guarantee you, listen -- unfortunately, we`re going to have -- there`ll be trouble ahead, because I`m sure they thought you about 12-step and the importance of getting a sponsor and doing the work and you`re resisting that.

I wonder if my behavior bureau has any questions for you. Anybody -- Jenny, I know you met tan mom not long ago, and look how great she looks now.

HUTT: Well, first of all, we met about 11 weeks ago at Sirius XM in the ladies` room. We took a picture together, and now, I`m realizing, you must have been wasted, I think. And today, you look like a different woman. So, I really hope you take Dr. Drew`s advice and find a way to work some sort of program with some sort of sponsor. I think that`s a great idea, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Cheryl, do you have a question --

KRENTCIL: Well, i do have a sponsor. I talk to --


PINSKY: Cheryl, go ahead -- no, Cheryl`s talking.

KRENTCIL: No, I do. I talk to Dr. Kelly regularly. I talk to people at the institute. I do have people in my town I talk to regularly. I have tons of support. I feel great. And it`s a different experience this time. I`m there, I`m willing, and I`ve got it. And I`m working it every single day. And I`m proud of myself, and I can`t explain it. I`ve got it, finally, after 45 years.

I was carrying baggage and then I`ve been through hell through that process. And then, after that, you know, I`ve worked it. I`m working it. It`s not a miracle. Sitting in an AA room, and I don`t oppose it. You`ve got to find what works for you as well. This isn`t --

PINSKY: Yes, yes. We all agree with that.

KRENTCIL: Right. So, no, sitting in an AA room --

ARUTT: Patricia --


PINSKY: Cheryl, I`m against the clock, but go ahead and ask the question and maybe we`ll have her answer it after the commercial break. Go ahead, Cheryl.

ARUTT: OK. Patricia, you look fantastic. I`m so thrilled that you`ve come this far. I think very often, though, when people first start this huge change, there`s like a flight into health where it`s like, OK, I`ve got it now, everything is great, and yet, very often, don`t you think that the same feelings you were trying to kind of soothe with the drinking really need -- you need to get under it and do that in order to really stay sober?

PINSKY: Great question, great comments, called the pink cloud. We`ll ask tan mom about that after the break. Be right back.


PINSKY: Back with "Behavior Bureau" and my co-host, Samantha Schacher. We are joined by Patricia Krentcil, none other than "Tan Mom."

And Patricia, before the break, Cheryl was asking the question about what we called the pink cloud or the flight to help. And you and I have talked before you did my podcast where you`ve told about these horrible traumas where you were thrown down a well and left for a week. You had coma from head trauma where somebody beat you up in a bar.

I mean, you had these horrible, horrible, horrible things go on with your life so that`s why Cheryl was questioning, don`t you need to really work every day or for a long time hard to deal with a lifetime of trauma and alcoholism?

KRENTCIL: Without a doubt, 100 percent. You can`t, in 40-something days, forgive me for the exact number, I try not to count, because I`m just living, you know, my days, and nobody has it. You know what I mean, like, you do it every day, you work on it. And to answer, the lady said, well, you`re beautiful. Well, beauty isn`t outside. It`s inside. And I found that.

And I don`t know, when people start yelling at me and stuff like that, it hurts, because, again, Dr. Drew, you`re correct on that. Alcoholism is a disease and I have it and every single day I`m grateful that I`m here and when they mention the plates in my head, I could have -- I was proclaimed dead several times and they had to reconstruct my face and I can`t see out of the eye.

I don`t want to go on about that. But Dana, you know, talked about beauty or whatever, beauty`s within, but it is an exterior that makes you feel pretty, too. And Dana Ramos, a dear friend of mine, helped me, you know, with the, but I have to bring her --

PINSKY: Sam`s got a question -- Sam.

SCHACHER: First of all, I want to commend you for finally seeking treatment. I think that`s awesome, way to go, congratulations, and I wish you all the best. My question to you is, do you think your rise to fame, the scrutiny that you suffered because of everything that happened in the past couple of years led to you hitting rock bottom, and are you nervous about that affecting you and your sobriety now?

PINSKY: And there`s a video out there, and I`ve heard a rumor that you were being approached about a porn. So, how does that all fit?

KRENTCIL: Oh, forget all that. That was insanity. I was still sick and a lot of the things -- it`s the past. I don`t even want to talk -- that`s the past. Everyone, let`s move on in life and let it go.

PINSKY: Well, let me say something, Patricia, the beauty may come from the inside, but was it Sal that`s got the hot for you over at Stearns. You`ve become -- you`re a beautiful woman and we can all now see that, thanks to your sobriety. So, please take care, attend to the sobriety. If we can be of help, let us know. Thanks for joining us. All right?

KRENTCIL: Thank you, Dr. Drew, and his staff, for letting me come on. Thank you.

PINSKY: All right, Pat. Time for the "Last Call." Don`t go away.


PINSKY: "Last Call" goes to Sam.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, someone gets out of rehab, what can they do to help them stay sober?

PINSKY: It is a daily work for years, change everything, hang with your sober peers, and for my opinion, do steps and go to meetings throughout the day.

Thank you all. "HLN After Dark" starts right now.