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Egypt's Deadly Violence; Interview with Newt Gingrich; Hannah Anderson Appears in Public

Aired August 15, 2013 - 21:00   ET


PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, breaking news, just days after her rescue from a violent predator, Hannah Anderson makes her first public appearance at a fund-raiser for her family, just a little while ago. Listen to Hannah's father.


BRETT ANDERSON, HANNAH ANDERSON'S FATHER: Hanna sends her love. She's doing good day by day. And we'll just keep moving forward from here. Thank you very much.


MORGAN: We'll have much more tonight, including the question of whether somebody should be protecting Hannah's privacy. I'll talk to two psychologists.

Plus fears of another day of violence across Egypt amid calls from the Muslim Brotherhood for a Friday of anger on the already bloody streets of Cairo. Meanwhile, President Obama walks a fine line but shouldn't this country stay on the sidelines? And what about the $1.6 billion in aid from Washington to Cairo?

I'll ask Newt Gingrich. He's on "The Grill" with me tonight. And it should be lively. I'll also ask him about this tough moment for Chris Christie.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I know you think it's simple and it's not. It's simple for you. It's not simple for me.

BRIAN WILSON, WANTS MEDICAL MARIJUANA FOR HIS DAUGHTER: Please don't let my daughter die, Governor. Don't let my daughter die.


MORGAN: The whole issue of medical marijuana rearing its head again.

Also, Michael Jackson's ex-wife breaks down in court over her daughter Paris. I'll talk exclusively to a Jackson family member who's speaking out for the first time. And my exclusive with the great grandmother who says she was sexually harassed by San Diego's scandalous mayor, Bob Filner. She's number 16 on his alleged victim and she's here with her attorney, Gloria Allred.

But I want to begin tonight with our big story. Egypt in uproar. Just a few hours before dawn Friday, a day or prayer in the Muslim world, and increasingly a day of protest. And today a Muslim Brotherhood spokesman tweeted out a call for Friday of anger marches to leave from every mosque and converge in the center of Cairo.

So what will happen when the sun comes up?

Joining me now is Arwa Damon live in Cairo.

Arwa, a pretty ominous threat there really of this Friday of anger coming from the Muslim Brotherhood. How well coordinated is this? How dangerous could it be, do you think?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Muslim Brotherhood is known for its solid coordination. It is probably the best organized political party that is here, and especially given what happened yesterday, that devastating death toll that left more than 580 people killed, thousands more wounded, 43 individuals on the side of the police are dead as well.

People are incredibly angry so one can assume that they are going to take to the streets and then the risk, of course, is yet another bloody confrontation with Egypt's security forces.

There have already been a number of ripple effects to yesterday's violence, if one can even call them that. We've seen attacks on police stations, on government institutions by Morsy supporters. That then led the Ministry of Interior to issue a statement authorizing its own troops to use lethal force if such attacks take place once again.

We've also been seeing these attacks against Egypt's minority Christian community, at least 30 churches were attacked, looted and burnt across the entire country in less than 24 hours -- Piers.

MORGAN: A very ominous situation. Arwa Damon, thank you very much indeed.

The violence in Egypt is turning into a huge problem for the White House. Joining me now is a man who disagrees with the way the president is handling it, former speaker of the House, and also one of the hosts of CNN's "CROSSFIRE," Newt Gingrich.

Mr. Speaker, how are you?

NEWT GINGRICH, HOST, CNN'S CROSSFIRE: I'm doing well. I'm delighted to be with you and it's tragic what's happening in Cairo.

MORGAN: Yes, let's talk about Egypt because clearly, a very, very important country, not just in the Middle East but to America and to the West, and going up in flames by the look of it. This is just a military coup d'etat, isn't it? There's no other way of describing it.

GINGRICH: Sure. Of course it is. And I think it also illustrates the great crisis in American diplomacy in the region which is there are no good guys available for us to back. The Muslim Brotherhood are the primary people responsible for those 30 churches that our correspondent just reported on that were burned. The Muslim Brotherhood has been remarkably an openly anti-Christian and Morsy's regime was so narrow and so hostile that about 70 percent of the people of Israel -- I mean, people of Egypt indicated that they wanted to replace him.

So let's start with that simple fact that you have a bad government under the Muslim Brotherhood. None of us are particularly happy with a military coup, but a military coup from an American perspective may be the least dangerous and most positive thing that could happen.

MORGAN: But the reason that President Obama isn't using the word coup is he wants to protect his legal position in the sense that if he does say it's a coup, then America would be duty bound to withdraw its $1.6 billion of annual aid which goes predominantly straight to these generals who have seized control.

This is all a bit of fast, isn't it?


MORGAN: Because what happens if other countries now, emboldened by what they've seen in Egypt, emboldened by President Obama's reaction, if their military rise up and take control, and say well, hang on, it's not a coup, it's exactly the same as what's happening in Egypt?

GINGRICH: You know, the practical reality is that the American military is very often a stabilizing and in the long-run modernizing force and they're having a relationship between the American military and local militaries is often very good. Well, that shouldn't lead the president to lie or dissimulate about what's happening. It ought to lead the president to say to Congress, this is a provision that doesn't work. It's destructive of American interest and the Congress ought to repeal it.

Let's be honest. If you had to choose right now between a Muslim Brotherhood dictatorship destroying the Coptic Christians, creating a very, very Islamic Egypt being openly hostile to the United States and Israel, or a military regime much like Mubarak, much like Sadat, you can make a pretty good case we the Americans are better off with a military regime than we are with an extremist Muslim government which in the end will become a dictatorship.

MORGAN: Newt Gingrich, stay with me. I want to bring in now General Wesley Clark. He's a former NATO Supreme Allied commander, also CNN's senior international correspondent Ivan Watson, and Middle East analyst Robin Wright.

Welcome to all of you. General Clark, it seems that the Americans and the administration in America have got themselves into sort of a devil and a deep sea here situation because they're dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. What is the proper course of action now, do you think, for President Obama to take?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: I think the proper course of action is to be very, very steady. Do not break relations with the Egyptian military. We don't like what happened. If we can work with both sides and pull them away from this confrontation that's looming or will intensify, that's what we need to be doing.

Look, the Egyptian military is doing what they think they have to do to keep Egypt as a modern country. They are responding to the will of the Egyptian people. They went overboard, somehow, the police, I don't know how all these people got killed. That's a big failure in somebody's procedures.

But, Piers, I was a major in the U.S.-European command in the fall of 1978 and the spring of 1979, working for General Alexander Haig. We went through this exact scenario with the shah of Iran. We didn't like him. He wasn't democratic enough. His secret police were really tough and they tortured people, and so we encouraged the emergence of a democratic movement.

The generals tried to warn the Americans, they said be careful, you're playing with fire and you're going to let Ayatollah Khomeini come back in. We sent in an American general over to tell the Iranian generals back off. So for about 60 days we kept the military from intervening in Iran.

During that period, the revolution coalesced, the military forces fell apart, extreme Islamists took over and at that point, the Carter administration said, oh my goodness, get the general to take control, don't let this happen. And the general said, we waited too long, we have no forces, and a few months later all the generals had been shot, and we have Iran today.

So I think there's an important lesson. Of course we want democracy. We don't want slaughter in the streets. But this is Egypt's problem. They know it better than we do. The military has been influenced by the United States. They are westernized. We should encourage the military to work with the police, minimize the violence, try to move this towards an inclusive democratic government.

MORGAN: OK. Ivan Watson, here's the problem with all this, which is we're basically right back where we were, only Mubarak is not there but he may as well be. And what has happened to the idealistic dream of the Arab spring?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think we're right back where we were, Piers, because in 2011, two and a half years ago there was the excitement and the enthusiasm about -- and hope for a democratic process, and that has been killed now, and we have hundreds and hundreds of dead people and their blood on top of that.

And you don't -- you can't promise now to Egyptian people to wave a wand and have democratic elections now and that will make everything better because the people who won those elections are some of the people who are being butchered in the streets and perhaps some of them are also carrying out reprisal attacks.

So you don't have that optimistic goal to push the Egyptian people towards and for them to be excited about. Instead, we have a much bigger crisis in our hands. How do we stop this cycle of violence and if the security forces use force against these possible marches that the Muslim Brotherhood is calling upon on Friday, that could continue this already terrible and tragic loss of life where you have bodies stacked up in the mosques.

It will continue if that use of force is repeated again on Friday.

MORGAN: Robin Wright, what is the solution here? Is there a solution? I mean, Ivan painted a very grim picture there and as General Clark said, you know, if you're not very careful, you can end up with another Iran.

ROBIN WRIGHT, MIDDLE EAST ANALYST: I don't think there's any comparison between what happened in Iran and Egypt for many different reasons. But the stakes are enormous here and there are no easy outs.

The problem right now is that there's very little influence that the United States has over Egypt, over the -- the military even though they have been the cornerstone of U.S. relations with Egypt now for more than 40 years. The danger is that the military is headstrong at the moment, and dead set on -- literally dead set on following through on its own agenda to prevent the Muslim Brotherhood from having any role in politics, democratic or otherwise.

And that it is likely to pursue a course that will make it very hard for the U.S. or the international community in general to play any significant role. And that's going to limit the options. Now I suspect there will be a huge debate in Washington very soon over the future of U.S. aid and whether the $1.5 billion that is provided, most of it to the military, should be suspended, should be deferred, that that will be the next step we see in -- from Washington's side.

In Egypt they have a six-month transition and the United States will be watching very closely whether the new constitution is announced next week, next Wednesday, as it's supposed to, whether there are elections that are held, free and fair elections, that are held for both the parliament and the president over the next six months. Those are the big steps that should play out next.

MORGAN: Well, tomorrow obviously will to be a fascinating day. A Friday of anger being promised by the Muslim Brotherhood. We'll see what that takes and we'll see the reaction from the military.

But for now, thank you to you all, to Wesley Clark, to Ivan Watson, Robin Wright. Newt Gingrich, you're staying with me. I'm putting you right back on "The Grill" after the break, which is where my viewers want to see you.



CHRISTIE: These are complicated issues. I know you --

WILSON: Very simple issues.

CHRISTIE: No, I know you think it's simple.

WILSON: We've had --

CHRISTIE: I -- listen. I know you think it's simple, and it's not.

WILSON: Please don't let my daughter die, Governor.


MORGAN: Chris Christie came under fire about medical marijuana. Is it a sign of trouble for the rising star of the GOP?

Back with me now is Newt Gingrich. He's on "The Grill" tonight.

Mr. Speaker, it's interesting confrontation there. The father Brian Wilson, whose 2-year-old daughter Vivian, has a condition that which many believe may be treated by medical marijuana, but that is currently outlawed in New Jersey, and Chris Christie has to make a big decision as a governor there whether it should be allowed for medicinal purposes.

What is your view about that? Do you think it should be allowed? Sanjay Gupta had a fascinating documentary "WEED", being re-aired tomorrow, in which he saw a young girl who had terrible tremors effectively being cured by medical marijuana.

GINGRICH: Well, I think you have to walk very carefully in this area. I looked at it a number of years ago and I was very sympathetic to the medical marijuana idea, and I think under controlled circumstances, there are circumstances that you describe these two young ladies for whom it might be a matter of either life and death or dramatic change in quality of life, I think that's one thing.

On the other hand, if it's simply an excuse as an interim step to make marijuana legal for everybody, which is what happens in some of the states that have gotten -- gone down this road then I'd be opposed to it. So I think you have to be very careful about what you're describing and under what circumstances and if it's a rare unusual case, I think that's one thing. If it's the general legalization, I think that's a huge mistake.

MORGAN: What is the ideological difference, though, between allowing it for medical purposes in many states in America now as there is. It's already allowed the recreational reasons in some others. Is -- you know, people still classified it in America, it's classified by the lawmakers as dangerous as heroin or LSD which is palpable nonsense.

At what point, if it seems to be just basically something that could help people who are sick, or can be used recreationally like alcohol and tobacco, why bother being so anti of it being legalized?

GINGRICH: Well, first of all, most of the studies have been done at the National Institute of Health do indicate that there are impacts on people's brains that are real. They're not comparable to heroin or cocaine, but they are real. And I think that's an issue that people who have looked at this can argue about but I think it's a very real question.

Second, I think there is a huge difference, you start out as you just did. Here is this terrible case, a 2-year-old girl, a unique circumstance and suddenly the next question is gee, why not legalize it for everyone? And frankly, that's why back when I -- I first came out many -- in the 1980s and said we should consider medical marijuana and I backed off because so many parents came to me and said, you know this is the first step and you know what the signal is going to send to our children is, it's OK to use it.

And they were so frightened of the cultural symbol that I just backed off of it and decided it wasn't worth the cause.

Now you've raised very narrow, specialized concerns for very specific people that could be handled within the medical system. That I would consider. But I wouldn't then leap from that to a general legalization.

MORGAN: Would you support Chris Christie to run as a Republican nominee in 2016? He seems to be gearing up for a run.

GINGRICH: Look, if he wins the nomination I would enthusiastically support him as opposed to --

MORGAN: It wasn't really my question, Mr. Speaker. I was more asking whether you would support him as the nominee, if you get my drift, sort of before the egg is laid.

GINGRICH: No, I'm not going to support any one person. There are a number of great candidates who are going to run. I certainly endorse the idea that Chris Christie should consider running, that he will be a very formidable candidate, and that he strengthens and broadens the Republican Party by representing a blue state, a heavily unionized state, doing it very effectively.

He's a very good governor of New Jersey and I think he will bring a lot to the Republican primary process.

MORGAN: We'll turn to this strange story, the Rodeo clown. This is a clown who's at a state fair who, with his cohort, was wearing a Barack Obama mask, and has been banned for life from competing in the state fairs --

GINGRICH: You know --

MORGAN: -- or appearing in them again. Well, what is your view of that?

GINGRICH: This is such stupid childish overreaction that I'm astonished. I mean, I've lived through Richard Nixon masks. I've lived through Ronald Reagan masks. I've lived through George W. Bush masks. I never heard anybody in the elite media, not once, express a sense that oh, it was inappropriate.

And here's this poor guy making a living -- this is a rodeo clown and he's doing this clown --


MORGAN: Let's take -- let's take a look. Let's take a look. For viewers who haven't seen it. Let's take a look at the actual moment that seems to have caused all the offense.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And President Obama --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I know I'm a clown, he's just running around acting like one, doesn't know he is one. Soon as this bull comes out, Obama, don't you move, he's going to get you, get you, get you.


MORGAN: I mean, it's all a bit silly but then he's a clown and my view, I mean, you may shocked by this, Mr. Speaker, I sort of agree with you.


MORGAN: I think it's all a bit ridiculous.

GINGRICH: Well, I'm delighted you agree with me. And I can't imagine why anybody who believes in the First Amendment isn't enraged at the decision that they made in Missouri. And I can't imagine why the president doesn't invite this guy up to his palatial resort in Nantucket and buy him a beer, and say, hey, I'm a bigger guy than this. Let's have a beer. I'm happy that you're earning a living as a clown. At least you have a job.

MORGAN: I would think hell will freeze over before that happens, but I would like to register my own support of the First Amendment of the American Constitution as a great well-known constitutionalist.

Let's move on finally to stop-and-frisk and the ongoing furor about that in New York. I know that your view is basically it's all a great idea and this judge has got it wrong that it should continue. But when you actually study the statistics on this, it does seem that -- it's obviously racial profiling. The question then becomes, is that acceptable if a certain element of society, from a certain race, are committing a certain type of crime?

GINGRICH: Well, let me, first of all, say about stop-and-frisk that every time I get on an airplane I'm stopped and frisked, and I accept that as a part of travel in America, and every person who travels is stopped and frisked, and it happens to all of us. So --


MORGAN: How would you feel -- well, hang on, hang on. How would you feel -- how would you feel if 85, 90 percent of all those who are frisked at airports were black or Latinos?

GINGRICH: Well, how about --

MORGAN: Would you feel that it's inherently wrong?

GINGRICH: How about if they were aging, white-haired politicians? I mean, you know, there are different kinds of groups --

MORGAN: Well, that would be -- I would think that would be -- that would be mandatory -- from the way I see it.

GINGRICH: There you go.


MORGAN: You're a menace to society, Mr. Speaker. But I'm talking about the reality, the reality is --

GINGRICH: Piers --

MORGAN: You cite an example there as if there's some kind of equivalence. But of course there isn't really, is there?

GINGRICH: Well, here's --

MORGAN: Because at airports everybody gets frisked.

GINGRICH: Wait a second.

MORGAN: That's not what's happening in New York.

GINGRICH: Here's the problem for all the people who get all hyper about this. If you're going to go to the neighborhoods that have the highest level of crime, you're going to, in fact, stop and frisk more people who are minorities because that's where the crime is. I think something like 2 percent of the murders in New York were committed by whites last year, overwhelmingly they're committed by African-Americans and -- so if you want to put -- and ironically and tragically, it's African-Americans killing African-Americans.

So if, in fact, you want to save young black males, stop-and- frisk in the opinion of Police Commissioner Kelly and in the opinion of the mayor is an effective system. Now we can try this social experiment. Maybe we should say let's take half the areas that are violent and not allow stop-and-frisk and half the areas and do allow stop-and-frisk, and let's see over the course of the next two years whether more young black males are being killed in the area where you're not allowed to stop-and-frisk.

That's a pretty expensive experiment in terms of lives of young black men who will be killed?

MORGAN: Well, it is. It is. But -- that may be an argument but, of course, crime has also gone down as it has in New York in other cities that don't have stop-and-frisk, Los Angeles, Dallas and New Orleans to name three. So there's no real evidence that it actually does contribute to reducing crime. All it does do is make a lot of people, black and Latinos in New York, feel increasingly disenfranchised if they knew they are being unfairly targeted which in itself is not good for the morale of the people of a city.

GINGRICH: You know, what's amazing to me is that these folks who are the most concerned, people that get on TV, who express all their deep anxiety, they don't express the same anxiety about, so what do we do to save the lives of the people being killed in these neighborhoods?

And frankly, if you look at a place where it has not gone down, Chicago, you might ask yourself the question, if you can save 200 or 300 young African-American males a year in Chicago with stop-and- frisk, maybe Mayor Emanuel ought to bring in Commissioner Kelly and talk to him about what's worked in New York because New York's murder rate is dramatically lower than either Detroit or Chicago.

MORGAN: That's actually given me a chance to make an apology, which is a very unusual thing, and it's not to you, Mr. Speaker, so don't get too excited, but the other night I was involved in a debate on Tuesday in which I said that Virginia had the highest murder rate, according to the FBI in 2009, and it didn't. And that was inaccurate fact and I'm happy to correct it now on air.

Mr. Speaker, it's always good to talk to you.

GINGRICH: Thank you.

MORGAN: I'm looking forward to "CROSSFIRE" starting. I can't think of a better person to be involved with a show called "CROSSFIRE". Good to see you again and come back soon.

GINGRICH: Good to see you. Thanks.

MORGAN: Coming up, Hannah Anderson's first public appearance tonight and she's been speaking out on social media about her ordeal. Should someone be protecting, though, her privacy?

I'll ask a therapist who treated another kidnapping victim, Jaycee Dugard.



ANDERSON: Hanna sends her love. She's doing good day by day and we'll just keep moving forward from here. Thank you very much.


MORGAN: That's the father of Hannah Anderson speaking at a family fundraiser just a short time ago.

Hannah attended the fundraiser. It was the first public appearance since she was rescued from kidnapper James DiMaggio.

CNN's Casey Wian is live in San Diego with the very latest.

Casey, what was happening there tonight and how would you describe Hannah Anderson's demeanor?

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What's been going on here actually all day, Piers, has been a fundraiser for Hannah Anderson and her family. This restaurant has decided to donate 20 percent of the sales that it gets today to that family.

And I can tell you, this restaurant has been busy all day long. There's been a line. You can probably see the line behind me right now, people still waiting to get in.

It's really going to help out the family, which is not a -- a wealthy family. Hanna looked like a scared 16-year-old girl who did not want to be receiving the media attention that she is receiving.

She entered into the restaurant through the kitchen, tried to avoid cameras, tried to avoid reporters. She seemed very uncomfortable.

Once she was inside the restaurant with her peers, friends, family, neighbors, she was much more relaxed. Her family member say she wanted to be here to thank all of those people who supported her not only throughout her ordeal, but also people that are supporting her as she now tries to build her life back again, Piers.

MORGAN: Casey, just -- just quickly, what does the family intend to do with the money that's being raised here?

WIAN: Well, they're not saying what they intend to do with it. In fact, her father said, he may end up giving some of it back depending how much is going to be raised.

At this particular event, they're expecting several thousand dollars to be raised. And we're talking a family that has funeral expenses for a mother and Hannah's younger brother.

She's got, you know, living expenses going further -- going ahead further. Her father lives on the East Coast. Her grandparents live here.

We're not sure where she's actually going to end up staying. So this is clearly a family that is in financial need. And I think that money is going to come in handy, Piers.

MORGAN: Casey Wian, thank you very much indeed. So how is Hannah dealing with the terrible (inaudible) of a kidnapping? Joining me is Dr. Rebecca Bailey, a PhD in psychology.

She's also Jaycee Dugard therapist. She's the author of "Safe Kids, Smart Parents." Also with me, Dr. Judy Ho, chemical and forensic psychologist.

Welcome to both of you.

Dr. Rebecca Bailey, let me start with you. Obviously, very different case to Jaycee Dugard. And yet, there are parallels, I guess, in how these young women recover from an ordeal like this.

Are you slightly surprised as I am, not necessarily for the wrong reasons -- I'm just surprised that Hanna Anderson, within 36, 48 hours of this terrible ordeal and discovering that her mother and son have both been brutally murdered by this man went online for a whole day engaging in a pretty frank and open discussion with random strangers today? She had a big fundraiser.

It seems to me slightly odd behavior and perhaps not in her best interest? But what do you think?

DR. REBECCA BAILEY: I'm not surprised at all. I think that different people process things differently. And this is her way of owning her story and somewhat taking control of the story.

Do I have concerns about the possible things being taken out of context and blown up that she may not have intended to? I do. But at the same time, there is a way that she's announcing this is not my shame.

It is his shame. And I think that's really important. She sounds like a bunch of 16-year-olds that I've worked with, seen, have in my own home.

MORGAN: Dr. Judy, I mean, the other area that still remains slightly mysterious is whether any part of this, Hannah Anderson may have gone voluntarily with James DiMaggio. We now know that they've gone on various day trips to Malibu and so on that exchanged apparently 13 phone calls on the day of this incident.

It sort of creates a -- a potential picture that maybe at the start of this, she thought she was going on some new adventure, oblivious to the mayhem he had caused without her knowing about her mother and her son being killed -- and her brother being killed?

HO: Absolutely, Piers. And I think in a way her announcing everything on social media and having this question-answer session was her way of kind clarifying where she really was at.

I bet that there are people who are thinking, hey, maybe you're complicit in this or maybe you even --there might have been some kind of collaborations. And I think she really wants everybody know. MORGAN: I mean, either way, she remains a victim.

HO: Right.

MORGAN: I mean, she's 16 years old. And this guy clearly has some sort of crush on her. We know that now from what she said in the online debate and also clearly has groomed her in someway and pursued her.

She remains a victim. But it certainly, it answers some of the questions about why perhaps when they met complete strangers on horseback, she didn't immediately raise a red flag?

HO: Absolutely. I mean, this is a family friend, a trusted individual of the family, one of her father's best friends. And also, she didn't want to be killed. And that's something that she said also online that she was afraid that if she said something at that point when they ran into horseback riders, that he would kill her if she said anything so...

MORGAN: Dr. Bailey...

BAILEY: Piers...

MORGAN:'ve obviously worked very close with Jaycee Dugard. I mean, respond to that, if you want to, yes.

BAILEY: Well, we -- there is so much attention on the idea of the quote-unquote, "stranger abduction." But we know statistically that abductions are highly more likely with family members.

And this is the takeaway from this, sadly, that we do really need to pay attention to some of the people in our kids' lives and try to understand their intentions. I, in no way, want to sound like I'm blaming this family.

But you know...

MORGAN: Right.

BAILEY: is this older man spending a lot of time, so -- and -- and I really -- I really want to bring that home and -- and that was the premise in our book over and over as the importance of revisiting and talking to your children and understanding that non- familial abductions are rare.

And this is in my book -- a familial abduction.

MORGAN: Right. Yes, I think that's right.

Finally, Dr. Judy, just very quickly, if you can, what advice would you give to the Anderson family for trying to move on now? Obviously, she's out and about tonight, Hannah.

She's been engaging with people online. But what other things should she be doing, do you think? HO: I think there's a big part of families who have been traumatized to try to normalize everything and try to bring everything back to a stable point. But there needs to be some type of processing.

I think the online venue may not have been the best way because that can bring her up to further criticism, a lot of questions she might not be prepared to handle. But I do think that there should be some type processing going on perhaps with a trusted professional, maybe with family friends who really lean on each other and not to ignore that this happened.

MORGAN: Dr. Judy, Dr. Rebecca Bailey, thank you, both, very much indeed.

Coming next, the explosive Michael Jackson wrongful death suit, dramatic testimony plus his (ph) biggest (ph) testimony (ph) to a Jackson family member who's never spoken publicly about her family before.


MORGAN: Michael Jackson's ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, mobbed outside the L.A. court today. But she testified her second today in a wrongful death suit against AEG.

But all the promoters, also many (ph) to blame for Michael's death. Rowe has some powerful and shocking things to say to the jury today.

CNN'S Ted Rowlands has covered the trial and joins us tonight from Los Angeles.

Ted, very emotional, very dramatic today -- Debbie Rowe really making it clear what she thought. Tell me what happened.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, and very riveting, Piers. I mean, jurors really got a sense of what it was like to be riding alongside Michael Jackson as he went through these periods of his life.

She was the mother of two of his children, talking about the birth of their children, spending time with him as the father, saying that he was a wonderful father, telling stories about -- watching movies with him and then also chronicling the just downward spiral of Michael Jackson as he became addicted to these painkillers. She was absolutely riveting.

MORGAN: But also very fascinating about Paris Jackson, Michael's daughter and the trauma, in particularly, that she has suffered?

ROWLANDS: Yes, this was the most emotional part of the day. She was asked what effect has Michael Jackson's death had on the children?

And she said, well, all the children lost their father, and then she turned it to Paris Hilton saying, I almost lost my daughter. She almost committed suicide.

She's devastated. She's trying to find herself. It was very emotional as Debbie Rowe broke down in tears. In fact, they had to stop the proceedings after that so she could take a break because she was just so emotional.

MORGAN: Ted Rowlands, I think you meant Paris Jackson, not Paris Hilton there. But Paris Hilton will be quite pleased, I'm sure, by the comparison.

Thanks a lot, Ted. Randy Jackson's daughter, Genevieve (ph) was 18 when her superstar uncle died. Tonight, she's speaking out for the first time about Michael Jackson's death, a wrongful death trial and the toll on her cousins, Michael's children.

Genevieve Jackson joins me.

Welcome to you Genevieve.


MORGAN: I can almost tell immediately you're a Jackson. You've got the look, the face, the -- the -- you probably sing as well, right?

JACKSON: Yes, I do.

MORGAN: Of course, you do. of course, you do.

JACKSON: Yes, I do.

MORGAN: Now, you've lived in the Havenhurst home...


MORGAN: ...with the Jackson family since you were two years old until very recently. And also, within (ph) the last few years, with -- with Paris Jackson and Michael's other children.

Debbie Rowe there made it very clear that Paris, in particular, suffered terribly since her father died.


MORGAN: How would you describe the reality of what her life has been like?

JACKSON: You know, it's rough. But I think for all three of them, for the rest of my family and especially them three because that is -- that was their world and that was their father and because I know, like for me, when I was in high school, I had to get pulled out of school during the second trial because it was so painful for me and people would ask me questions.

I can't imagine what she went through in school and what the other kids are going through. MORGAN: I mean, you're Randy's daughter and you're 23. And he's obviously one of the Jackson brothers, a big star. Being Michael's daughter is a whole different level of fame and attention, isn't it?

And so Paris is right in the cross fire of all this.


MORGAN: What kind of advice do you give her? You must be almost like a big sister to her.

JACKSON: Yes, I always just tell her to stay strong and to remember what her daddy taught her, because, you know, he taught her a lot, all three of them.

MORGAN: What did he teach you? What kind of things?

JACKSON: Well, he taught them to always listen and to watch everything that's around them and to pay attention, you know. They're very, very smart children.

And to stay strong, to have rhino skin -- that's what he says.

MORGAN: How is Kathryn dealing with this trial because it must be a big ordeal for her to so many painful details and revelations about Michael being regurgitated?

JACKSON: It's hard for my grandmother. She's hearing all these horrible things said about my uncle. I can't even imagine, that's her son.

And I don't think she will ever really heal from this.

MORGAN: What does being a Jackson mean to you? I mean, you're one of the family. There's -- there's so many of you. And you -- you have this extraordinary bond together.

I've interviewed almost all the family now. How would you describe being a Jackson?

JACKSON: By (ph) questions -- you know, I don't know, to me, it's normal. To me, I guess, a Jackson but we don't really have privacy and that's one thing that I do wish my family did have was privacy and people like not attacking us and watching every move -- move we do.

But other than that, we're like every other family.

MORGAN: What -- what would you like to happen from this trial? What would the Jackson family -- what would Paris and Michael's other children -- what does everybody want to happen here?

JACKSON: Have justice.

MORGAN: And then what would you see justice as being?

JACKSON: For the truth to come out and it is coming out.

MORGAN: What do you believe the truth is?

JACKSON: I don't even want to get there. But yes, I don't want to touch that situation. But I do believe there's more -- it's deeper than what it is.

MORGAN: I mean, Kathryn said to me unequivocally that, you know, the family believes that Michael Jackson was killed by Conrad Murray...


MORGAN: ...and the -- the promoters acted in really bad faith...


MORGAN: ...they put this guy in and he took Michael's life.


MORGAN: That's what the family thinks?

JACKSON: Yes, all of us.

MORGAN: Do you think you'll get justice? Do you think the trial is going the right way?

JACKSON: Yes, yes. Yes, the truth always comes out.

MORGAN: Debbie Rowe's evidence has been pretty powerful. Do you know Debbie?

JACKSON: You know, I met her once. She's a...

MORGAN: Quite recently.

JACKSON: ...yes, quite recently, about a month ago. She's -- she's a nice lady and she's funny. She's funny.

MORGAN: For Paris, I mean, is she -- is she watching this trial? Is she engaged in at all?


MORGAN: She's trying to avoid it?

JACKSON: No. She's avoiding -- I'm sure she's avoiding it.

MORGAN: Well, Genevieve, it's nice to meet you.

JACKSON: Nice to meet you, too.

MORGAN: Another member of the Jackson family. And you're an extraordinary family. Showbiz is world (ph) to you (ph) really. And it must be very tough for all of you... JACKSON: Yes.

MORGAN: ...just to go through this trial. But I think you've done yourself proud tonight. Thank you very much.

JACKSON: Well, thank you.

MORGAN: Coming next, my exclusive interview with a great grandmother who said she was sexually harassed by San Diego Mayor Bob Filner. She's number 16 of his alleged victims.

She joins me live with her attorney, Gloria Allred. That's coming next.


MORGAN: San Diego Mayor Bob Filner is facing a slew of sexual harassment charges. These 15 women have already come forward to say they were victimized by him.

And tonight, a new allegation from a great grandmother named Peggy Shannon. She says Filner kissed her and repeatedly sexually harassed her while she worked at the senior citizen's desk in the city hall administration building.

And Peggy Shannon joins me now exclusively along with her attorney, Gloria Allred.

Welcome to you, both.


MORGAN: Thank you, Shannon. You're 67 years old. You're a great grandmother. The very last thing...


MORGAN: ...I'll show you, what (ph) to (ph) expect (ph) in your -- in the workplace was to be harassed by your mayor. Tell me what happened.

SHANNON: Well, he started coming by the desk where I work in city hall and making inappropriate -- talking to me about wanting to do a date on the weekend. And I knew he was a, you know, engaged.

And he would, you know, then another day, he came up to me without any warning when I was outside going home, and hugged me and kissed me. And I was appalled.

I was shocked. And it's not something that I thought that the mayor would ever do.

MORGAN: Now, Gloria Allred, I mean, there's -- there's a -- a sort of tendency to laugh at these kind of things. We have with Anthony Weiner and Eliot Spitzer and so on.

But actually, it does have really damaging effects, doesn't have, on the victims to have to put up with this kind of harassment?

ALLRED: It does, Piers. Here she is trying to do her job. She's living on Social Security and getting minimum wage for the hours that she's putting in, helping senior citizens. And she really wants to help senior citizens.

And she's appalled that the mayor did what he did. I mean, she also alleges that he came up to her and made a comment such as, do you think I can go eight hours straight?

And that, of course, was take to mean possibly a -- a sexual comment. And she said, you're kidding? And then he reportedly said, no, I can go eight hours straight.

Well, that is completely inappropriate to say to somebody who is working there. And also to kiss her on the lips which is what she alleges that he did.

She never gave him any reason, Piers, to think that she wanted anything other than a working relationship. And by the way, I mean, the mayor says that he can go eight hours straight.

We just want him to go. We want him to leave the office of mayor and resign once and for all.

MORGAN: Right. Let me play a clip from what he said. This is what Filner had to say about his own behavior.


FILNER: I am embarrassed to admit that I have failed to fully respect the women who work for me and with me, and that at times, I have intimidated them. It's a good thing that behavior that would have been tolerated in the past is being called out in this generation for what it I -- inappropriate and wrong.


MORGAN: Peggy Shannon, when you hear him being apparently so contrite, do you forgive him or -- or not?

SHANNON: Well, I'm a very good woman to where I can forgive somebody that has done wrong to me. But the very next day, he says, I really didn't do anything.

Prove it. And I'm sorry, but he did do a lot of things inappropriate. And I can forgive anybody, but he needs to step down. He needs to resign.

MORGAN: And we now know, I mean, you're -- you're the 16th woman to come forward with allegations. Do you believe that there are more? Did you hear other stories?

SHANNON: Well, people are surprised that, as a great grandmother, that this happened to me. So it could happen to anybody else, any other senior, any other person. ALLRED: And Piers, I happen to know that more women have contacted me, then have come forward publicly. Some of them do not wish to come forward publicly.

And I support and respect that decision. But we're hoping that all of them will contact the sheriff's hotline in San Diego County because the sheriff's office is doing a complete investigation.

Peggy, this afternoon, did speak with sheriff investigators. And we're looking forward to the outcome of that investigation and the decision by the attorney general of California as to whether or not they want to proceed with criminal charges or not and if so, for whom?

MORGAN: Peggy Shannon and Gloria Allred, thank you, both, very much for indeed for coming on.

ALLRED: Thanks.

MORGAN: And we'll be right back after this short break.


MORGAN: So (ph) I'm (ph) reminding (ph) everybody, it's been three nights since "The Daily Show's" John Oliver offered $10,000 to anyone who can produce a video of me falling off a segue. Here's what he said.


OLIVER: OK, this is important. I would like to personally offer $10,000 in reward to anyone who can bring me footage of Piers Morgan falling off that segue.



MORGAN: OK, well, just to remind you, Mr. Oliver, here is the video.


(UNKNOWN): Sit back, sit back, sit (ph) backwards (ph).


MORGAN: Well, I want my 10 grand. I'm going to give it all to the intrepid fallen heroes fund. But I want my money, John Oliver. That's all for us tonight. Anderson Cooper starts right now.