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Exclusive Interview with Jennifer Willis, Hannah Anderson`s Aunt; Lindsay Lohan Talked About Her Addiction
Aired August 19, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, he was an international track star known as the Bladerunner. She was a stunning model and reality TV star. Did he murder her on Valentine`s Day or was it a horrible mistake?
Plus, what happened when Hannah Anderson was kidnapped? Her aunt is here exclusively.
And Lindsay Lohan is coming clean to Oprah. I`ll tell you what I think. A body language expert gives us her take. Let`s get started.
Good evening. My co-host is SIRIUS XM radio host and Attorney Jenny Hutt. And coming up, my take, Jenny, we`ll have our take and the Behavior Bureau`s take on Lindsay Lohan`s interview with Oprah Winfrey. But first off, Oscar Pistorius, the double amputee track star known as the Bladerunner, was charged today with premeditated murder. His girlfriend, shot and killed, Reeva Steenkamp - he says it was all a horrible accident. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSCAR PISTORIUS, OLYMPIC RUNNER: I was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. I`m a 400-meter track specialist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Olympian Oscar Pistorius has officially now officially been indicted for murder. Pistorius insists he accidentally shot and killed Steenkamp in his home after he mistook her for an intruder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The door to the bathroom was closed, so he just shoots through door not knowing who was on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pistorius used the cricket bat to break down the bathroom door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say it was premeditated murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bat and a cell phone were found splatted with blood. Prosecutors say witnesses heard arguments coming from the Pistorius home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep down, this was a troubled athlete.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (A size of two) previous incidents of (brief) encounters with Pistorius that suggest he could be prone to violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now he was in court this morning in South Africa. Today Reeva Steenkamp would have been 30.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reeva is not supposed to be dead. Reeva had her whole life ahead of her. She was going to be doing great things.
PINSKY: Joining us to discuss, Attorney Mark Eiglarsh from SpeakToMark.com. HLN`s own Lynn Berry. Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of Pop Trigger on TheYoungTurks network. And Brian Copeland, talk show host on KGO Radio in San Francisco, author of "Not a Genuine Black Man." On the phone, HLN legal correspondent Jean Casarez. Jean, what happened today in court?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, HLN: Really important day today, Dr. Drew, because today, this case was bound over for trial, from the lower magistrate court to the high court on a series of murder and premeditated murder. And for the first time, a lot of documented evidence has come out as part of that indictment that even the defense didn`t know about. One being the prosecution is set to have, they say at this point, 107 witnesses and many of those witnesses are actually neighbors that heard screams from a female, silence, and then shots.
PINSKY: Wow. Thank you, Jean. Here`s what Pistorius says happened. He wakes up, does not put on his prosthetic limbs, gets his gun, goes into the bathroom, shoots through a locked door of this toilet cubicle. Lynn, you heard what Jean said, is coming in terms of these witnesses. What do you think happened?
LYNN BERRY, ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT, HLN: Dr. Drew, you picked up on an important point there. He did not wear his prosthetic legs and today we learned that could be an important part of the prosecution`s case. They have what they say is the trajectory of the bullets into the bathroom door. What they`re going to argue is this was premeditated. He had his prosthetic legs on.
Pistorius himself says he didn`t and that`s why he had a gun and he felt vulnerable, so he need to -- without his legs, so he needed to grab the gun and shoot through the door. There are so many holes in his story, including why he would even think to shoot four times when he has not heard a response from the other end of the door when he says, get out of my house. Well, what was the response of an intruder? He doesn`t have an answer to that.
PINSKY: Jenny, you`ll have none of it.
JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST, SIRIUS XM: Yeah, I have none of it. You`ve got to be kidding me, Dr. Drew. Your girlfriend is sleeping over. She`s in your bed. You think there`s an intruder and you don`t look to see if your girlfriend is in your bed or if your girlfriend is in the bathroom, that you`re just going to shoot at and kill her? Come on, Dr. Drew. Please.
PINSKY: Samantha, you seem to have almost the same tack. Go ahead --
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR, HOST OF POP TRIGGER, THEYOUNGTURKS NETWORK : Jenny took the words right out of my mouth. First of all, what burglar hides in the bathroom? And number two, if I were to wake up in the middle of the night, I would immediately think that that was my husband in the bathroom. I would never even think that it was an intruder and if I did think it was an intruder, I would say, Mark, is that you in there? Come on.
BERRY: And who would lock the door?
PINSKY: I will go to Mark. I want him to bring me back to earth, Mark, and so let me know how the legal system is going to operate. I know it`s not our wonderful jury system there in South Africa. But how is this going to play out?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Well, it`s a judge and that single judge will make the decision in this case. It`s not six or 12 jurors like we have here. It`s a completely different system. He`s also considered a hero by many in South Africa. And also, why don`t we wait? We don`t know whether the trajectory of the bullet clearly showed that he was shooting from down here, as opposed to up here like prosecutors allege.
Let`s see that. The other thing that they have going for them, the defense does, is that the lead investigator, Hilton Botha, is now off the case and indicted for murder himself on an unrelated case. That can`t help the government`s case.
PINSKY: Wow. Now they plan to call more than 100 witnesses. My question, Brian, is do they need all that?
BRIAN COPELAND, TALK SHOW HOST, KGO RADIO: Well, here`s the thing. I don`t think they do, because just on its face it`s the most preposterous story I`ve ever heard in my life. What burglar breaks into a house and thinks, you know, before I steal all the valuables, I got to go to the bathroom.
BERRY: And lock the door.
COPELAND: I need to go sit down into the bathroom --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And lock yourself --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And lock yourself in there.
COPELAND: And (I need) to lock myself so that I`m not interrupted or disturbed (while in the bathroom). It`s preposterous. It`s preposterous
PINSKY: I agree with you. Mark, did I hear, though, that in South Africa there`s like only two percent conviction rate or something? Did I read that somewhere?
EIGLARSH: I read that as well. And let me just say this. I`m not defending him, but you`ve got to read through his statement in the affidavit. Either he`s innocent or the best lies are based on half-truths. So if you read what he`s saying, there is a lot to get you into the ballpark. Like crime in South Africa is rampant.
He did have death threats. He did sleep with a gun right by his bed. The way the bathroom is positioned, it could have been somebody coming in. You`ve just got to read it. I`m not saying it`s truthful. It`s just a lot closer than what Samantha and your other guests are suggesting.
PINSKY: Hang on, according to CNN reports, he did have a gun on him much of the time and he even fired it in a restaurant one time.
BERRY: Yeah. That`s another part; that goes to character and whether or not he`s even capable of this and there are going to be some witnesses that are ex-girlfriends that will testify to his aggressive behavior. I mean it`s also important to note here, South Africa has very broad laws when it comes to self-defense. An attacker doesn`t even need to be armed. If you feel like you are in danger of injury or in fear of death, you can act with deadly force and that`s important to note here when it comes to a judge considering whether or not he believes Pistorius` story.
PINSKY: I guess why (they will stand) your ground laws in South Africa as we do here, huh?
COPELAND: Well, I mean, don`t you have to see, before you can claim self- defense, don`t you have to see the person who is allegedly the threat?
COPELAND: I mean, here again, he`s firing through a closed door.
HUTT: But hello, does anybody realize that he didn`t look next to him to see that his girlfriend wasn`t in the bed with him?
BERRY: He claims the lights were off --
HUTT: Or was in the bed with him?
BERRY: He claims that the lights were off.
PINSKY: You got to read the story.
BERRY: Yeah. Well, the other thing is, say you`re Reeva and you`re just using the bathroom. If you`re going to the bathroom, you`re not going to lock the door. How many times did you get up and your partner and you`re not going to go to the bathroom and lock the door and lock yourself in there. She was huddled over the toilet covering herself. And there are going to be witnesses that will say they heard a woman`s scream, silence, and then the gunshots. That`s going to be hard for the defense to overcome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lynn, I`m so happy you brought that up.
PINSKY: And then, Mark, where do you say the best lies are based on half- truths? Good job, defense, (these are) defense lawyers. But listen, here`s something he claims, is that, because he was disabled, he was in a heightened state of fear all the -- somebody else might have been in that situation. So I wasn`t getting, but I don`t know if Mark would use that as one of his half-truths.
EIGLARSH: Well, I wouldn`t use anything that my client didn`t tell me as truthful. The first thing you establish is whether the forensic evidence establishes that his blades were not on, and again, the path of the bullet. If the blades weren`t on, he`s definitely in a different situation than someone who is able bodied, legs on, ready to run, ready to defend. So it`s a little different.
PINSKY: But the fact is that, Jenny, you`ll have none of it, huh?
HUTT: No. Here`s why, because first of all, this was a very able-bodied person who happened to have prosthetic legs. He had his legs amputated since he was 11 months old. He knew how to manage without prosthetics I`m sure by that point and he was an athlete, a real athlete. He can run farther than I could run probably without his prosthetics on frankly. I don`t believe that he was really fearful ever or feeling vulnerable.
PINSKY: And we`re going to hear some evidence, Sam, that he had a temper. We`ll hear about that. The fact that it`s just a judge hearing this case and no jury, do you think that`s a good thing or bad thing for him? Samantha.
SCHACHER: Well, I think that -- you know what, I really don`t know. But I think what Lynn said as opposed to her locking the door for a reason. That tells you something very poignantly that she was in there fearing for her life. Maybe a fight broke out. Maybe she was in there hiding. Who locks the bathroom behind them in the middle of the night?
PINSKY: All right. Let`s leave it at that because I think that`s what`s so suspicious. We`re going to have lots of witnesses testifying one way or another. We`ll get more into this as time progresses.
next, Mr. Pistorius, Oscar Pistorius, the dark side. Some who know him suggest that he had fooled a lot of people. You`ll hear about that.
And a little later, Lindsay Lohan confesses to Oprah. Is she for real this time? The Behavior Bureau rings in. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he walked into the court, he faced a wall, a barrage of cameras. He turned his back on them, looking for support, comfort from his family who were in the seats behind the dock. For a while, he sat and held hands, praying with his brother and sister.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a number of times through that, he also seemed to be crying.
PINSKY: Time for the Behavior Bureau. Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt. South African Olympian Oscar Pistorius charged with murder in the shooting death of his girlfriend. Jenny, do you buy all this prayer and posturing in court today? He broke down crying.
HUTT: Yeah. Well, two things. One, happy birthday to Reeva Steenkamp who would have been 30 today, so start with that. And two, do I buy it, Dr. Drew? Look, I think he`s praying he doesn`t get convicted.
PINSKY: Yeah. Back with us to discuss, Samantha Schacher. Joining us, psychologist Judy Ho. Clinical and forensic psychologist, Cheryl Arutt, and body language expert, Blanca Cobb. Blanca, did you see genuine remorse here or is he putting on some kind of show for the cameras?
BLANCA COBB, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Dr. Drew, I think he`s showing genuine remorse. You can tell by his body language how he closes down. You can tell by his facial expressions, the tears, even blows his nose. I mean, I think that`s all sincere. I do agree with Jenny. It`s why - why is he showing that remorse? I agree with her. I think he doesn`t want to get busted. Well, he`s already busted - I don`t think he wants to be convicted. I don`t think he wants to spend the rest of his life in jail. No one wants to get caught. No one wants the punishment.
PINSKY: So Cheryl - Cheryl, he feels remorse and bad and he`s praying because he`s got himself in a bad situation not because he hopes people see the truth as he sees it.
ARUTT: Well, Dr. Drew, I know that we know that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And this man has a history of violence and aggression against women. There`s the 2009 case where he had -- he also hurt somebody and there`s a lot to that case, too, where his story of events would have a woman who had just had surgery on her leg kicking his door in and blamed her.
I think that very often men who get violent really do go through a cycle of tension-building violence and then feel terrible, feel sorry, but then they go through the cycle again. So he doesn`t have to be a psychopath in order to have really done something awful and not want to get caught and not want to --
PINSKY: I completely agree with you. And (particularly it could be sprinkling) in a little steroid abuse in there. We know athletes tend to abuse steroids, I`m just saying. Now he seems humble and quiet and shy -- yeah, and I don`t disagree with you at all. But some people -- we`re going to hear a lot of evidence about exactly what you`re talk about, Cheryl. We have a lot of people apparently who knew him differently. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He would have a trip switch, and uh, you know, he`d get violent and angry and he`d fight with people and cause a lot of problems. I mean, the incident with me and him was because he was drunk at a party and he started shouting and swearing on the phone. He said he`s not scared, if I want to come down there, he knows where I am. It`s like, well, we were waiting for something like this to happen, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: OK, so Judy, we`ve got a guy that`s drinking, gets aggressive, an athlete, maybe using steroids. We have witnesses saying they heard a woman crying and screaming. Cheryl`s building an interesting case. Do you agree with her?
JUDY HO, PSYCOLOGIST, ABPP: Well, Dr. Drew, it`s like the perfect storm. I mean, this man has been using steroids. (There`s) documented side effects of steroids, that there`s increased aggression. There`s even possibly paranoia and it`s also the same as the side effects when they go through withdrawal, that there is paranoia and aggression as well.
And on top of that, of course he`s been coached in terms of his courtroom behavior. I mean, being able to act properly and looking like he`s remorseful, that is a defendant`s lawyer`s job to make sure that they`re ready for court. He can probably keep it together in those hours in the courtroom, but what is he doing behind closed doors? That`s what we don`t know.
PINSKY: Let me ask you guys something. Show of hands, anybody ever dated a guy that took steroids? Any of you guys? Anybody? Come on now. No. Oh! Two. OK. All right. So -- because I used to -- I hung out in gyms back when I was -- in the younger days --
HUTT: You dated a guy who took steroids, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: No, I didn`t actually date him. We were just hanging out. But the point is I had a lot of experience -- it`s going to be different than what I`m going to pull from you guys - a lot of experience watching friends and people go through the incredible aggression and downs and irritability (socially) going on and off. I broadcasted on radio every night (not right now) with a guy who was roided up for a long time and he talks about it at great detail. So Blanca, what did you observe in your friend and what was your personal experience, if you don`t mind sharing?
COBB: I don`t mind sharing at all. It was in college. And there was a guy really beefed up, juiced up guy. And he would take steroids. But he was very -- he did it behind my back. It`s not something that he would share with me, but there were temper changes and his temperament would change. He would be very aggressive. I remember one time there was a guy who hit on me.
I wasn`t very smart and I told him, so I was in the car and he actually found this guy who asked me out and he thought he was being disrespected because some guy asked me out. He beat him up. And I remember him kicking him in his face and he had penny loafers on. And I was in the car hysterical and crying because at that time I didn`t realize what was happening because I wasn`t involved in that situation. And I remember him telling me after the fact and getting very emotional about it and feeling guilty, Dr. Drew, because if I didn`t open my mouth, then perhaps that wouldn`t have happened.
PINSKY: And by the way, you mentioned, Cheryl, OK, your story in a second too, how secretive these guys are, because I was in medical school or I was a resident that time, they kind of pulled me aside, here`s what I`m taking, am I hurting myself? But they never copped to it ever, ever, ever. Cheryl, what was your story?
CHERYL ARUTT, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCOLOGIST, : Well, my situation was somebody who I don`t think was taking steroids regularly to beef up, but was given a steroid medication and had a reaction to it --
PINSKY: Oh, that`s different.
ARUTT: -- that was really aggressive.
PINSKY: OK, let`s hang on --
ARUTT: OK, but they ended up really acting up kind of crazy.
PINSKY: Corticosteroids that you get from a physician are completely different than anabolic or androgenic steroids that you take illicitly off the street. Doctors don`t prescribe anabolic and androgenic steroids.
ARUTT: But basically he has no excuse.
SCHACHER: I`m curious to you, Dr. Drew. In your opinion, now when people take anabolic steroids, do all of them act out like this aggressive, or is it only some of them act out this way?
PINSKY: Great question. They don`t act out murderously. That`s a weird thing. But some of them, they bring out a bipolar quality and get manic. Some of them get -- I`ve had a, not really a friend, someone I knew, kill himself coming off a cycle of steroids because he got so depressed.
And yes, they always get somewhat aggressive. And the aggression can be bizarre, where they throw things and just like Blanca`s story, they get aggressive on other people. They don`t murder necessarily. But -- so there`s something else about this guy. And I think the case that Cheryl built in the beginning is really an important case, that he may -- we`re going to hear evidence as this court case goes along, that perhaps he`s an abuser, he`s in that cycle of sort of getting into it and then doing it and then feeling remorseful afterwards. Cheryl, do you agree with me?
ARUTT: Well, yes. And I`m really wondering whether you think that if someone has impulse control and aggression problems to begin with, and then takes anabolic steroids, do you think that that can inflame the whole situation?
PINSKY: Yes. That`s the guy. That`s the guy that`s likely to flip into serious trouble. Thank you, panel.
Ahead, how is Hannah Anderson one week after her kidnapping ordeal? A relative says she herself and Hannah`s mom were like sisters together. We`ll talk to her. >
And later on, little Lindsay Lohan, she admits an addict, that she`s an addict. Shocking. She also admits she`s a liar. Now Behavior Bureau will also tell you what they think after the break.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt. We`ve got some breaking news in the Hannah Anderson case. Evidently, the man who kidnapped her and who police say killed the mom and brother -- get this, Jenny, he has left $112,000 to Hannah`s paternal grandmother. It`s kind of weird, right?
HUTT: Consolation prize? Bizarre.
PINSKY: Well, according to family, there`s a family spokesman who says he thinks it is for Hannah`s benefit. As though -- I can`t imagine this guy was in a mind frame where he was planning to die and then planning to leave money for Hannah. It just doesn`t fit more me, does it for you?
HUTT: Well, it only -- listen, he did die 18 years to the day that his father committed suicide, right?
HUTT: There`s something about the timing, Dr. Drew, that makes me think his life was going to come to an end around this time.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. Now in the men time, the funeral services for Hannah`s mom and brother mom are scheduled for Saturday. New details about what so called Uncle Jim, James DiMaggio did have emerged. Take a look at this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tina, Ethan, and Hannah had no idea Uncle Jim had other plans.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we went up there one last time to support him. And to have fun, riding go-karts up there, but he tricked us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James DiMaggio murdered Christina and Ethan Anderson and set his boulevard home on fire to cover up his crimes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Items like condoms, handcuff boxes, hand-written notes and balloons all found in the same garage as Christina`s lifeless body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a real sort of irony that Hannah looks strikingly like Laura Robinson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were getting ready to go for a walk and I had my son like oh, my God, is that Ethan, Ethan?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We knew she was strong and we knew she`d make it.
PINSKY: Back with us, Mark Eiglarsh, Brian Copeland, Lynn Berry, and Samantha Schacher. James DiMaggio evidently has left a six-figure sum to one of Hannah`s relatives. Reaction, Lynn.
BERRY: What`s interesting about that is he made that switch for his life insurance policy in 2011 from his sister, who we know he was extremely close to. He basically raised her according to this family friend, so the big question is why would he do that at that time from someone like his sister? That`s the question and the person that knows the answer is not alive.
PINSKY: Brian, what do you think?
COPELAND: Well, I think that`s really bizarre about it is he was having financial problems at that time and someone`s speculation is that he was going to be losing his home to foreclosure and that`s one of the reasons that he torched it. So it is strange that he would list Hannah`s grandmother as the beneficiary on his life insurance given his financial situation. You`d think he might leave it to his sister so she could clear things up after he was gone.
PINSKY: Lynn, you want to respond to that?
BERRY: Well, that really is the big question. And whether or not he had this infatuation with Hannah, and the family friend linking it directly to him thinking that this is going to go to Hannah adds to this sickness of this. We continuously go to this is a 16-year-old girl, and if this is an infatuation, which all accounts lead to that road, it is extremely disturbing.
PINSKY: Well, Mark, are you putting this together -- I`ll ask Mark. Are you putting this together any differently as we get a little bit more information, sort of trickles? There`s a lot more to be learned, I`m sure. But are you putting this kind of differently?
EIGLARSH: Well, I`m at a loss because I don`t understand monsters. I don`t. I don`t try to figure them out. And I also don`t want to speculate that he intended the money to go to Hannah. The report is a friend of the family claims that -- who the money -- that`s where the money should go. There`s no note, there`s no indication that`s who he left it for. The money was left for a paternal grandmother and then it`s only speculation that`s what his intent was.
PINSKY: Gotcha. Brian, you want to say something?
COPELAND: Yeah. The thing that I would like to get more information about is I`d like to know what was in the letters they found. You know, they found -- after they executed the search warrant, they found a lot of letters from Hannah to him as well as, I guess there were 13 phone calls back and forth between the two of them in the hours leading up to the murders.
BERRY: Yeah. But they reiterated on Friday that that had nothing to do with Hannah`s involvement. He was never a willing parties participant and she is a victim. They reiterate that.
COPELAND: Well, I was not implying otherwise. I would just like to know the content of those letters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question for Mark, Dr. Drew. Can I ask Mark a question? Mark, I know in certain states, as dependent whether or not this life insurance policy will even be valid because at the time, the insured was killed while committing a crime. Does this life insurance policy, is it even void or valid?
EIGLARSH: It would depend upon the laws of that state and I haven`t researched it. But that`s a very good point.
PINSKY: California is not the land of lawlessness like in Florida where they --.
PINSKY: Jenny, I`m sorry, you were trying to react. I couldn`t get to you.
HUTT; You know, I was just saying there wasn`t a trial to show that he was, in fact, guilty. I mean, we all know he was. But to Brian was saying about the letters. Dude, I don`t know what other reason you want to know what`s in the letters other than maybe you think that it makes her somehow complicit. And again, this is a child. Hannah Anderson is a child regardless of what those letters said, regardless what happened on the camp. She was a child.
COPELAND: That`s not what I`m saying. Jenny, that`s not what I`m saying. It`s not what I`m implying. I would like to know the content of the letters are because I would like to see the extent that he had control over her.
PINSKY: I think it`s important to point out.
COPELAND: -- expects the imagination applying anything else.
PINSKY: Yes, Mark, I`m against the clock, I`m sorry. But Brian, it`s a really important point. Whenever we try to understand what was going on with Hannah, not that she is responsible for what she was involved with, it`s to what extent did he manipulate and victimize her. How did he do what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right.
PINSKY: Next up, inside Hannah Anderson`s kidnapping. The woman who knows her very well is here exclusively.
And later, Lindsay Lohan came clean with Oprah. Do you believe her? Behavior bureau is taking a look at it after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She got an award at school, mayor worshiper and she is my pinky pal. We have little pinky pal handshake that we do. We loved him. He was fun. A great guy. Kind of wasn`t the same cheerful guy. And that we worked out all the time. And I just didn`t understand why so thin. At one point, he looked really good, he lost weight, he looks good, but he just kept getting skinnier. Ethan was playing football for Pop Warner. And she was going to be the cheerleader for his team.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is story that will keep going on. And certainly for Hannah, it`s going to be a long-term problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with my co-host Jenny Hutt and our panel.
Joining us, Jennifer Willis, Hannah Anderson`s great aunt. Jennifer was so close with Hannah`s mom Christina that I think you, Jennifer, describe yourself as twins together. A couple things. And, you know, I`m at a loss for words when I talk to people who have been through stuff like this. And let me speak on behalf of our whole team here, that it must be a terrible loss and we just send our prayers. How sorry we are.
JENNIFER WILLIS, HANNAH ANDERSON`S GREAT AUNT: Thank you.
PINSKY: Now, you have some pretty strong feelings about James DiMaggio and his questionable interactions with Hannah and Hannah`s friends. I think you have a story about a gymnastics class?
WILLIS: I do. Towards the end of the school year for Hannah, my sister and I and two other members of her family went to one of her gymnastics meets, and Jim on a regular basis would drive the girls because he could get them there on time. Everyone else was working. And it just seemed more and more uncomfortable watching him interact with the girls. Following them to the bathroom and whatnot, while Hannah was -- during her meet. Her friends would ride with them. And when he would spend time alone with the girls, it just seemed awkward. It didn`t seem natural and it seemed out of place for his age.
PINSKY: Mark, did you have a question for Jennifer?
EIGLARSH: I do. First, do you think that from the very beginning this was his master plan, or somehow he befriended the family and then along the way he somehow came up with this horrible diabolical scheme to do what he did? And also, the second thing I want to know is meth. Apparently he was a meth user? Is that something that is accurate?
PINSKY: I have not heard that.
WILLIS: I`m actually unaware of that. I was not aware of that until I saw that on the news.
PINSKY: Jennifer, you mentioned all that weight loss. When you mentioned that in that tape we were watching before we got to meet you, that`s what crossed my mind. Could that have been meth.
WILLIS: It made sense after I saw that on the news, definitely made sense. I saw him last year. And he was a lot heavier. And this summer, when I saw him, he was so thin you could see his ribs and it just seemed odd to me. And he didn`t look healthy. So I had mentioned it to him at Hannah`s birthday. And he felt he was just fit. But to me, it seemed odd and he didn`t look good.
PINSKY: Were there any other signs, like skin picking or scabs? Or rotting of the teeth that you`d typically see with a meth user?
WILLIS: I didn`t see anything like that, other than the thinness of his body mass. I didn`t notice anything.
PINSKY: I understand.
He also took the day trip, including a trip to Malibu and Hollywood. Did you ever raise issues about that with Hannah`s mom, or were you concerned?
WILLIS: I just recently moved down here in March, and so those kinds of things were happening during the kids` life with, you know, him being in the picture. It wasn`t something that was out of place. The whole family would take trips with him. So that wasn`t something that stood out as being out of place, no.
PINSKY: You have a question for Jennifer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I understand sort of your perception on James DiMaggio changed around March, you said? Did you point that out to Tina? And what was her reaction? Because she was bringing her children, you know, right to his house. So she must not have been concerned in the same way you had described being concerned.
WILLIS: It didn`t seem out of place considering what he was going through. Tina was a very good mother. She was very strict, very fair, very loving and very, very close with her family and her two children. If she noticed something out of place like that, she would have not allowed him to be around her kids. She was concerned.
PINSKY: I beg your pardon. Jenny, I wonder if you have a question to Jennifer.
HUTT: I do. I just want to know, did you know about his troubled past?
WILLIS: Nothing at all. Nothing until I saw it on the news now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, it is so funny because I think all of us have so many questions that seem unanswered about him. So, if he was still alive and you could speak on behalf of Tina and Ethan, what would you say to him?
WILLIS: That`s been something I`ve been fighting with. I wanted to see him caught alive, merely for the fact that I have unanswered questions. I want to know why. If his intent was to take Hannah, why did he have to murder my niece and my great nephew.
EIGLARSH: You`d never get a straight answer from him.
WILLIS: Probably not.
PINSKY: Particularly if it was meth related. He`d never be able to give you a rational answer.
But Jennifer, as our sort of closing moments here with you, given that there are all these unanswered questions that we have and you have, how do you put it together?
WILLIS: I haven`t been able to. That was something I was going to ask you on how to handle this. I miss Tina. She was a great person, very loving. Had a great amount of friends and family around her all the time. Her children were wonderful, very outgoing and loving and caring. And, you know, I can`t put it together in my head. I don`t know how someone could do something like this to that family. And I don`t know how you go on.
PINSKY: Let`s do this. Well, are you OK? Are you able to go on?
WILLIS: I have to. I have to be strong for her. And she would want me to be strong for her.
PINSKY: Yes. I think that`s a great outlook. Let`s do this. As this story unfolds, as we learn more about this, I want to invite you back here. When we get to the point we can make sense of it and you and I will talk about it. OK?
WILLIS: I would love that. I love to do that in person with you and get some one-on-one time with you so I can try to put the pieces together.
PINSKY: Right now, it`s mysterious to all of us. And again, if you add the meth in there, it starts to make sense. But in terms of his motivation and what he was up to, we`re still sort of guessing at what happened. We have no real solid theories, any of us.
But thank you, my dear, for joining us. Again, thank you, panel.
We are going next to change gears, talk Lindsay Lohan. She talks about alcohol, she talks about adderall (ph), which is, by the way, related to a amphetamines, and chaos and how she may have been addicted to chaos. The behavior bureau reveals their thoughts after this.
PINSKY: Back with the behavior bureau and Jenny Hutt.
Oprah sat down with Lindsay Lohan in her first interview since completing 90 days of court-mandated treatment for addiction. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: Are you an addict?
LINDSAY LOHAN, SINGER: Yes.
WINFREY: And what is it you are addicted to? What is your drug of choice, or drugs of choice?
LOHAN: Yes. And that in the past was a gateway to other things for me.
WINFREY: Other things like?
LOHAN: I never abused -- I tried cocaine with alcohol.
WINFREY: Were you snorted, injected, smoke it.
LOHAN: No, I snorted it. I really hadn`t done it -- I really haven`t done it more than ten times.
WINFREY: So, what is the truth?
LOHAN: I have done it like ten, 15 times.
WINFREY: Do you enjoy smoking it?
WINFREY: So, why do you do it?
LOHAN: it allowed know drink more. I think that`s why I did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, Blanca, you`re the body language expert. Jenny, you are shaking your head, no? Before I go to Blanca, what`s your body language take, Jenny?
HUTT: Ten to 15 times, Dr. Drew. Was that in one night?
PINSKY: Well, that`s the point. Oprah didn`t ask -- no, your point is very well-taken. Oprah didn`t ask what is a time, is that six months? Is it a week? Is it a single ingestion? I mean, what is it?
Now Blanca, what did you see from a body language standpoint?
COBB: When she was asked the question, Dr. Drew, what are you addicted to, immediately she turns and looks away. And you see a very subtle left shoulder shrug. When we should shrug, particularly unilaterally, it`s a sign of uncertainty or lack of commitment. And then she says alcohol. That`s a pretty straight forward question that wouldn`t require a lot of thought, in my opinion. I think she knows what she`s addicted to and what she`s not addicted to. So, it makes me wonder if there`s a little bit more to the story.
PINSKY: Yes. Cheryl, I would say that`s a great observation because that`s what it feels like to me. It is like there`s not that kind of complete capitulation to her condition and the process of recovery.
ARUTT: Absolutely. I think so, too. And one of the things that struck me that got cut out of the clip we just showed is Oprah asks her whether she snorted the coke or whether she injected it, and all of that and Lindsay said, you know, I never injected anything in my life except for b12 shots. And she says it through lips that are so injected with silicone it`s astonishing. I have to say, you know, she`s not really being direct.
HUTT: In all fairness, Dr. Drew, I feel like she wasn`t -- we don`t -- listen, I`ve gotten Botox. And I would say I don`t inject myself because I`m not injecting the Botox into myself, so maybe that`s the distinction.
PINSKY: You know, guys don`t think of it, though.
ARUTT: But, she didn`t inject the b12 into herself either.
PINSKY: But Judy, do you share my concern but you don`t see the kind of capitulation that you really looked for. I mean, she should be not talking about how she returns to her career as a source of satisfaction and spiritual recovery. She should be on her knees praying for the addiction to be satisfactory treated with her daily work.
HO: That`s right, Dr. Drew. I mean, absolutely. She is only four days out of rehab when she did this interview with Oprah. It`s like her mind is not really in the space that it needs to be when you`re focused on recovery. And she herself said in the interview that she`s terrified of being judged. And I just don`t think she`s being completely honest still at this moment. You know, the ten to 15 times of cocaine.
PINSKY: Listen, she doesn`t need to be judged. Listen, I`m going to talk about that after the break. Stay with us. Behavior bureau hangs out with me.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny Hutt and the behavior bureau. Here`s a little more of Lindsay with Oprah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOHAN: I haven`t felt the way I have been feeling recently and fell now in a very long time. Like, I feel whole again. And I feel I have such a desire to want to keep this feeling and stay this way. And I`m willing to do whatever it takes and whatever people that have more experience with their recoveries and things like that have, that I really want. And I really want to be on set. Like, that feeds me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m not so sure that`s good for her.
Samantha, you know, I think it sad. I said before the break that she was experiencing shame. And it`s sad to me that she has to be burdened by guilt and shame from public scrutiny. You and I are good co-defendants. What are we going to do?
SCHACHER: So, well, here`s the thing. First of all, I am rooting for Lindsay Lohan and I hope that she stays clean. But listen, Hollywood will always be there, Lindsay. I think now is the time to really focus on your sobriety. And I think she would argue that, you know, diving right back into work will keep her busy. There`s plenty of things to keep yourself busy.
But I have to say really quickly, Dr. Drew. I had to comment on the previous segment, because I don`t buy the fact that that she`s only done coke ten or 15 times. This girl partied hard for years nearly every single night. She was in the club. I was there -- Dr. Drew, I used knob to be in those clubs. She used to be in the club every single now. And I`m not speculating on what she did in those clubs, but someone that`s partying that often, come on.
PINSKY: But here is the issue she was on Adderall, which is Dextroamphetamine is the generic name for that drug. It`s a relative of methamphetamine and she didn`t need the cocaine if she was taken the Adderall. Her dad Michael Lohan was extremely concerned about that. I think that was appropriate. I think the fact that she was on adderall is a significant change her and may impact her success and recovery. We will see.
Thank you, panel. Last call is next.
PINSKY: Time for the last call.
And Jenny, I held Sam back after that little reveal. The last call goes to you.
HUTT: Yes Sam, I need to know more about your partying. And you can`t hang out with my children, bad influence.
SCHACHER: OK. First of all, jenny, I wasn`t partying. I worked there to support myself through college, OK? No, that`s true. My point was when someone`s partying that often --
PINSKY: Whatever, Sam.
SCHACHER: Every single night, you have to wonder how do they even remember what went down, let alone their cocaine usage.
HUTT: So, how do you?
PINSKY: Got to go, guys.
SCHACHER: Never done it.
PINSKY: We have said she was ashamed and she is going to have trouble being truthful and shouldn`t have to be truthful on all this. I feel bad that she carry shame about her addiction.
"HLN AFTER DARK" starts right now.