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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Interview with Glenn Greenwald, David Miranda; Gunman Opens Fire At Elementary School, No One Hurt; Australian College Student Murdered In Oklahoma; Beaver Creek Wildfire Burns In Idaho
Aired August 20, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Erin, thanks.
Good evening, everyone. Tonight the reporter who made NSA leaker Edward Snowden a household name says he is facing retaliation by government forces targeting his spouse. My exclusive interview with Glenn Greenwald and David Miranda recently freed after hours of interrogation at the London airport.
Later, we're live on the fire lines where the tide may be turning, but it's a race against weather conditions that could breathe new life into the inferno.
Also, how a convicted baby killer who is suspected in the deaths of dozens of other children might soon walk free and the mother who's determined to see that she doesn't.
We begin with the 360 exclusive involving the alleged misuse of government power, not to investigate or prosecute potential acts of terror, but to intimidate and persecute individuals, individuals like this man, who you see here at the airport in Rio de Janeiro, David Miranda, and his spouse, journalist Glenn Greenwald.
Tonight, they are speaking out for the first time since Miranda's detention at London's Heathrow Airport on his way home to Brazil.
Greenwald, you'll remember, writes for Britain's "Guardian" newspaper and has been NSA leaker Edward Snowden's conduit to the world.
Sunday, Miranda was heading home from Berlin, having met with a documentary filmmaker named Laura Poitras, who has been working with Greenwald on NSA stories. While he was changing planes in London, British authorities detained David Miranda and questioned him for nearly nine hours under Britain's anti-terrorism law.
As you'll hear, though, only on 360, Miranda claims they did not ask him a single question about terrorism. They did, however, threaten him with jail time and confiscate his laptop and memory sticks, and before letting him go just minutes before the law says they'd have to justify their actions in court.
Just a short time ago, for the first time since the incident, I spoke with David Miranda and Glenn Greenwald. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: David, let's just start with, there's been a lot of misreporting on this. So, if you can, just take us through what happened. You were on a plane. There was an announcement that everyone had to show their passports. And then what happened?
DAVID MIRANDA, GLENN GREENWALD'S PARTNER: Well, I walked out and there was two officers just waiting by the door above the plane. And they are just like checking people. They grabbed my passport and they looked at my name and looked at my face, and just asked me, sir, can you accompany me?
And I went with them. And we went to this room. And there was four chairs in there and a table. And they started to ask me questions there. The moment that I got there, they told me that I was under this law because I asked why I was being held. And they said there was the law that was in 2000. And I asked them what was my rights in that and whatever I have to do. They say that I have to answer every questions and if I didn't cooperate with them, I can go to jail.
COOPER: What kind of things were they asking and saying to you, David?
MIRANDA: Well, they asked me all kinds of questions. And they asked me about my relationship with Glenn. They asked about my relationship with Laura and what was I was doing on my trip to the Germany and what I was carrying, everything.
COOPER: And, David, British authorities say that they detained you under -- it's called Schedule 7 of the U.K. Terrorism Act, which allows them to question someone to determine if they're -- they are or have been, and I quote, "concerned in the commission, preparation or -- or instigation of acts of terrorism."
Did they actually ask you anything about terrorism?
MIRANDA: No, they didn't ask me anything about terrorism, not one question about it. And I think it's really weird because I was in there for like eight hours without talking to anybody outside. And like they are just like keeping me. I have to ask them, do I have to answer this? And they as just telling me, like, if you don't answer this, you're going to go to jail.
And, you know that's a big thing because like when they say like, yes, I was in this -- under this law, this is terrorism, you know what U.K. and United States do. They have all the powers in the world to do anything they want to with this, because I've been following Glenn and his career for the past like eight years.
And I have seen many stories that people like pick up in the different countries, getting to this Guantanamo, and just like just staying in prison and they are vanished. Nobody has seen them. So in that moment, I was like really afraid what would happened to me.
MIRANDA: And I was -- you understand that I was, for eight hours, without talking to anybody in the outside of the world. I didn't know what's happening. And they keep threatening me about me going to the jail with that law.
COOPER: And, Glenn, you got a call from some British official who wouldn't give you his name, just his identification number. What did that person say was happening with David?
GLENN GREENWALD, COLUMNIST FOR THE GUARDIAN: The very first thing that he said to me was that he was detained under the Terrorism Act of 2000, which is an obviously terrorizing thing to hear about the person that you love most in the world and with whom you share your life.
And I then asked how long he had been detained. He said he had been detained by that point already three hours, which maybe you know it was much more than a routine secondary screening and immigration.
I asked whether I could speak with him or have a lawyer from "The Guardian" sent in. And they said, you cannot speak with him and he does not have the right to have a lawyer present with him. I asked them what their intentions were, as far as how long he would be held and they said they had no idea and that was all they would tell me.
COOPER: David, I know you -- you had said that they took a laptop, memory sticks, an external hard drive, your cell phone and more. Do you know what were stored on those devices? What -- were there -- was there classified material?
MIRANDA: I don't know that. I mean I was just taking the file -- those materials back to Glenn. I mean, you know, Glenn, being working with a lot of stories along the years, I didn't quite follow everything that he writes every day. I can't follow him because I have to have a life. And I mean I can't know everything that he's been working with.
COOPER: So David had visited this filmmaker that your reporting -- your reporting partner on the NSA stories, Laura Poitras, and in Berlin.
COOPER: I read "The Guardian" had paid for David's flights.
Glenn, was he carrying classified material with him?
GREENWALD: Well, I'm not going to talk about what he was carrying because that's our product as journalists. Remember, both Laura and I are working with "The Guardian" as journalists. What I would say is every single newsroom in the United States, every single major news organization in the world has classified information. Reporting on what governments do in the secret is what journalism is about. So if you want to support the idea that states can just go and confiscate from journalists classified information, you should be demanding that your government go physically into newsrooms and seize whatever classified information is there.
All of the best reporting over the last 40 years involves journalists having classified information, the Pentagon Papers, the Bush torture cites, CIA black sites, the illegal warrantless eavesdropping program. That's what investigative journalism is. And if you want to start criminalizing that, it means that you're asking, as a citizen, to be kept ignorant and to allow people in power to conceal what they're doing behind a wall of secrecy and to have no accountability or transparency.
Journalism is not a crime and it is not terrorism.
COOPER: I would also imagine that any information that David might have had was likely duplicated, backed up some place else. So confiscating it, it's not like that would make it simply disappear, which then, I guess, leads to your argument that this was to intimidate you and send a message to others.
GREENWALD: What they did is ludicrous. First of all, of course we have multiple copies of every single thing that we're working on. Nobody would ever travel with only one copy of anything, even if you just lose it or it's stolen. That would be inane. Of course we have multiple copies around the world in different places. So taking it is in no way accomplishing anything.
Secondly, every single thing that both David and I carry, even personal items, things for his school, are protected by very advanced and heavy forms of encryption, which they can't access. So taking it doesn't enable them to know what's in there, either. It's not going to stop our reporting. It doesn't do them any good.
All it did, as I said this week, is give them a huge black eye in the world, make them look thuggish and authoritarian, interfering in a -- in the journalism process, creating international incidents with the government of Brazil, which is indignant over what was being done, for no benefit at all to themselves, which is why I said I truly believe they'll come to have regret -- to regret what they've done, because it's an -- aside from being oppressive and dangerous, it's also quite incompetent and really quite dumb.
COOPER: We're going to have more of our 360 exclusive interview next, including claims that David Miranda was detained on orders from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The U.S., Glenn, has said that they got a heads-up that David might be detained, but they have said, you know, they're not the ones who were behind it, that this was a law enforcement matter in the UK. Do you buy that? (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: His answer to that question next.
Let us know what you think. Follow me on Twitter right now, @andersoncooper.
Later tonight, the moments of terror. An AK-47 toting gunman shows up in an Atlanta area elementary school and how everyone made it out alive.
COOPER: More now of my exclusive interview with reporter Glenn Greenwald and his spouse, David Miranda, who was detained and questioned for nearly nine hours under Britain's anti-terrorism laws.
Greenwald claims the real purpose was to intimidate him and other journalists. Also, in light of his stories on the National Security Agency, to retaliate. The question is, was the United States involved?
Here's what Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest said when asked that question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There was a heads up that was provided by the British government. So this, again, this is something that we had an indication was likely to occur, but it's not something that we requested and it's something that was done specifically by the -- by the British law enforcement officials there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So officially, a heads up from Britain, but not a request from America. I asked Glenn Greenwald whether he buys that. Here's what he told me.
GREENWALD: I don't have evidence that the U.S. government ordered it, but I'm very disturbed that my own government was aware of this foreign country's intent to detain my partner and did nothing to discourage it or to protect the right of free press guaranteed in the First Amendment of the Constitution, or did anything else to protect the rights that we both have as human beings and that I have as an American and as a journalist.
So whether the idea originated with the U.K. or with the U.S., clearly, the U.S. government was perfectly happy to see this happen.
COOPER: And, David, when you stepped off the plane finally, when you got back to Brazil, what was that like? What was the feeling?
MIRANDA: It was a relief. I mean I was in my country. I knew what -- I was going to be protected here because I was in my country. And I know that people here would be caring about what the situation. And I was going to see my husband and we would be together. And I know he was going to take care of this whole situation.
COOPER: Glenn, I saw a quote from you saying that you would be, quote, "more aggressive, not less," in reporting on England. Some headlines seemed to indicate you were going to be acting out of revenge. Is that accurate?
GREENWALD: It's completely inaccurate, Anderson. I was asked whether or not the detention of David would deter my reporting and what I thought the outcome would be for the U.K. government. And what I said was that if they think they're going to deter me in any way from this threatening behavior, they're deluded. It's going to have the opposite effect on me. It's going to embolden me.
And the reason it's going to embolden me is because when I see that governments abuse their power, the U.K. government did, I realize that they need even more transparency and more accountability. It makes me want to work harder. It makes me want to work faster to inform the world about what it is that they're doing.
And when I said I thought they would -- were going to come to regret it, it wasn't because I was going to publish out of vengeance, it was because I knew what they had done was extremely counterproductive to their own interests.
COOPER: And as far as legal action goes, your lawyer seems to be indicating that you're planning something. Can you say what?
GREENWALD: Sure. The lawyers in the U.K., on behalf of David, have filed a lawsuit. And what they're essentially seeking right now is a declaration from the British court that what the British authorities did is illegal, because the only thing they're allowed to detain and question people over is investigations related to terrorism. And they had nothing to do with terrorism. They went well beyond the scope of the law.
And secondly, to order them to return all of the items they stole from David and to order that they are barred from using them in any way or sharing them with anybody else.
COOPER: And, finally, Glenn, just on another topic, since Edward Snowden has been granted asylum in Russia, can you tell us anything about his life there, how he's doing?
GREENWALD: He's doing great. I mean what he spends most of his time doing, honestly, Anderson, is following the incredibly productive debate that has been triggered all around the world over the dangers of surveillance and the value of Internet privacy and freedom that he helped to trigger.
I don't know if he necessarily loves Russia. That would be the first choice that he would pick to live in, but he certainly prefers it to a -- the next three decades in a super max prison in the United States. So I think he's happy to be there given his options. COOPER: Glenn Greenwald, David Miranda, thank you guys for talking. Appreciate it.
GREENWALD: Thanks, Anderson.
MIRANDA: Thank you.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: All right. Let's dig deeper now with senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and Jesselyn Radack of the Government Accountability Project. She's a former whistleblower in connection with the investigation of the so-called American Taliban John Walker Lindh and now represents people doing what she once did.
Jeff, let me start with you. Do you believe the British government was justified in detaining David Miranda for some nine hours?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I sure do. Let's be clear about what Mr. Miranda's role was here. I don't want to be unkind but he was a mule. He was given something, he didn't know what it was, from one person to pass to another at the other end of an airport. Our prisons are full of drug mules.
Glenn's view is, as long as one of the two people on either end of that transaction was a journalist, he can take anything he wants. He could take the nuclear launch codes, he could take the names of our undercover agents --
COOPER: His flight was paid for by "The Guardian," though, so wasn't it in effect he acting in a journalistic capacity?
TOOBIN: No. I don't think that matters a bit who pays for your ticket. I mean, he's on a plane with stuff that is highly classified. You know -- anything he wants, it turns out it wasn't the names of our undercover agents, it was the extremely classified presumably NSA material. That is not the law.
COOPER: But does it -- I mean, he is being detained under a British -- UK Terrorism Act which is -- only supposed to be used to detect and find people who are connected to terrorist. There is no indication that David Miranda -- they knew who he was, they knew he's not connected to some terrorist group.
TOOBIN: Great Britain has its own laws that are similar to ours but then are somewhat different. Their terrorism law takes it one step farther. They say, it's not just the material -- this person is a terrorist, but can be used by terrorist. And frankly, if terrorist know how we surveil their cell phone calls, how we surveil their texts, that could be used for terrorism.
COOPER: But couldn't any information published by a journalist be used be used by terrorists in some way?
TOOBIN: No. COOPER: And can that excuse be used to then detain journalists?
TOOBIN: Not at all. Not classified -- I mean, not classified information of this. I mean, it would have to be classified information of this kind.
COOPER: Jesselyn, what do you think?
JESSELYN RADACK, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT: You know, I think that argument is completely vacuous. First of all, as Mr. Toobin says, he is presuming. He, in fact, has no idea what was on those thumb drives and other documents and electronics that were seized. Nobody does. But no matter what was on there, it obviously had to do with journalism. Laura Poitras is a journalist and a documentarian. Glenn Greenwald is a journalist and David was serving as an in between, not as a drug mule.
I have to wonder why the U.S. government and our allies are so desperate to keep our illegalities secret and our law-breaking secret that they are willing to use a terrorism law to try to stop a journalist.
COOPER: But, Jesselyn, just to, you know, be devil's advocate here, I mean, if the British government thought there were stolen documents that were being transported, why don't they have the right to stop this person and check?
RADACK: The British government, if they thought they had stolen documents, could go through the criminal process, rather than using an anti-terrorism law, which has nothing to do with stolen documents, and there's been no evidence of that whatsoever put forth even by the British government itself that they thought these were stolen documents.
TOOBIN: Mr. Miranda was lucky that they used the terrorism law because he wasn't even delayed. He wasn't even stopped overnight. I mean, you know, I'm sure it was inconvenient to be stopped for nine hours at the airport, but, you know, when it -- but you know, when it happens to you on JetBlue they don't even over you a lawyer.
So, I mean, I just don't think he was sent to the gulag. He was -- he was delayed for a while and they took what appears to be stolen classified information. I think Mr. Miranda actually did pretty well, considering what he was carrying.
RADACK: I have to interject. I hope the next time that Mr. Toobin is stopped for nine hours and detained with no due process on an anti-terrorism law, that he is equally as generous with his assessment. But clearly being detained on a terrorist law, an anti- terrorism law, and having spent time on the no-fly list myself is pure government retaliation against a whistleblower and it's the criminalization of journalism and whistle-blowing that had been going on, and frankly, the United States has been behaving in a completely unhinged, desperate and rather foolish way in dealing with those.
COOPER: Jesselyn, you talk about due process. Under British law, though, there is no right to stay silent in this case. There is no -- under this UK law there is no right to have an attorney present. They actually offered him one of their attorneys. He declined. But under this law, the person being questioned has not right to have counsel there.
RADACK: I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that under this law, to be held under Schedule Seven of this particular law, you have to have a reasonable nexus to terrorism and here, there has been absolutely none asserted unless someone is trying to make the government -- the arguments that journalism is the new terrorism.
COOPER: Well, what about it, Jeff? I mean, that is Glenn Greenwald's argument, that basically it's linking journalism -- conducting journalism to acts of terror.
TOOBIN: The word journalism is not magical immunity sauce that you can put on anything --
COOPER: Immunity sauce --
TOOBIN: That you can put on anything and make -- eliminate any sort of liability. You know what? If he had the nuclear launch codes on there, he could -- you know, they can take that. If he had the names of undercover operatives, they can take that.
Our government and the British government regards the method of surveillance as just as serious a security breach. Now, you know, that's their -- that's the law. And, you know, I'm sorry Glenn thinks that's a bad thing but, you know, that's the law, and if you go through an airport carrying that stuff, you take your chances.
COOPER: Jeff, what do you think of the fact that British authorities showed up at the offices of "The Guardian" demanding that they destroy two hard drives that had information, I guess, relating to Snowden and classified information.
TOOBIN: Grotesque and appalling.
COOPER: So you draw -- you think that was too far.
TOOBIN: Huge difference. Huge difference. You know, when we show up at the border somewhere, we know we're going to have our stuff searched. We know -- there are certain rules.
COOPER: But he didn't go through customs, David Miranda. He was in a transit.
TOOBIN: He showed up -- yes, well, you know, you take your chances. But inside a country that, you know, that believes in free press that they would destroy a computer, I imagine here at CNN authorities walking in and demanding that they destroy our computers. I think it was horrible. I think it was terrible. And I think it's important to draw distinctions between different kinds of government activity.
COOPER: Jesselyn, do you agree with that? That --
RADACK: No, I think --
COOPER: That that was too far, certainly.
RADACK: I think that's a distinction without a difference. By detaining him in a transit zone on a terrorism law, when there was no suspicion whatsoever, even asserted by the United Kingdom, was purely a pretextual detention under the very inflammatory label of terrorism, and the way I understood the incident at "The Guardian" to unfold is that the UK wanted copies of the information, and instead, "The Guardian" wisely said, we will destroy it before handing it over to you, which is a principled thing to do.
And when it suits Mr. Toobin's interest, he's glad to claim First Amendment principles in shielding newspapers, but then at the same time he's willing to dispense with those completely when dealing with terrorism stature, detaining a completely innocent person involved in the conduct of journalism.
TOOBIN: It's called drawing distinctions. I mean, you know, different situations have different results. And I don't apologize for that in the least. You're running around in the world with extremely classified information and you don't even know what it is, you're being used as a mule. You take your chances and I think Mr. Miranda got extremely lucky in only being delayed nine hours in London.
COOPER: All right. We've got to leave it there. Good discussion.
Jesselyn Radack, good to have you on the program.
Jeff Toobin as well.
RADACK: Thank you.
COOPER: Let's talk about it more on Twitter during the break. @Andersoncooper is the address. For more on this story, you can also go to CNN.com.
Just ahead, a chilling reminder of Newtown. Children being led single file out of a Georgia school today after a gunman opened fire. He was armed with an AK-47. He's in custody tonight.
Also the cold-blooded killing of an Australian student in Oklahoma. Three teenagers are in custody. What they allegedly told police about why they did it. It is unthinkable. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Terrifying day at an elementary school just outside Atlanta. A gunman opened fire, barricaded himself inside the school before eventually surrendering to police. The police say he was armed with an AK-47. Had other weapons as well. He's in custody tonight. Thankfully, no one was hurt. As we said, a terrifying ordeal obviously for everyone inside that school.
On "ABC World News with Diane Sawyer," school clerk Antoinette Tuff described how she convinced the gunman to put down the weapon. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTOINETTE TUFF, SCHOOL CLERK: I was there with him the whole time. We had a couple -- I had a teacher come in and then our cafeteria manager came in. So I just kind of walked him through it and talked to him, and told him that it was OK, that we all have situations in our lives and I just went through a tragedy myself. But I recovered from it, and so it was going to be OK. If I could recover from it and open up a business, and he could, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: After the gunman surrendered these pictures aired live. Children being led out of the school. Police were worried that a vehicle parked outside the school might contain explosives. It's quite a job getting all those kids out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF CEDRIC ALEXANDER, DEKALB COUNTY, GEORGIA POLICE: We had to move the kids from the rear of the school and find an escape route, which we had to cut a hole in the fence. Take the kids through the back of a house, down a small embankment to an adjoining street. Get the kids on the school bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: David Mattingly joins me now with the latest. David, what have you learned about this gunman and why he may have done this?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's been identified just in the last hour, Anderson. His name is Michael Brandonhill. Police say he is not 19. He's actually 20 years of age. He is now being charged with aggravated assault on a police officer, terroristic threats and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. They continued to interview him. As far as a motive goes, police yet aren't saying why he decided to do this.
But we do know from talking to a local television station, when this man went into the office and took a couple of office workers hostage, he had them call a television station and relay a message to them that he was going -- he was not afraid to die, and that he wanted the police -- the television station to come out and take pictures while he was killing police officers.
Now fortunately, that didn't happen. This man Michael Brandonhill did fire off we're told about a half dozen shots at officers. They returned fire, but then he gave himself up, and you just heard the woman in the office describing how she convinced him to do that so, no bloodshed here. He never actually made any shots fired at any of the staff or luckily, at none of the children, but still, very scary times at this school, as this gunfire was being exchanged.
COOPER: So he had an AK-47. There were reports of potential explosives in his car. Did they find anything else?
MATTINGLY: They did not explosives in the car, but it took them a couple hours to very carefully go through that car and find out what was in there. As they were going through it, they really haven't told us what actually they did find in the car, but because the car was parked in front of the police station -- or in front of the school, police couldn't take the kids out that way. And that's why they had that elaborate means of escape for the kids the chief was describing, that they had to go out the back and a way out to get out safely just in case there were explosives in the car.
COOPER: I understand in order to get into the school, visitors had to be buzzed in. Do we know how the gunman got into the building?
MATTINGLY: This is one of the most disturbing. The security system is there to be buzzed in. They have to show id. Well, when someone did that, the gunman just went up and grabbed the door before it closed behind someone who had been buzzed in. He defeated their security system just that easily.
MATTINGLY: So you can bet they are going to be looking at beefing up security here. Parents here, as they were collecting kids, had a lot to say. Some of them afraid now to send their kids back to this school.
COOPER: David Mattingly, appreciate the update. Thanks.
Elsewhere, different kind of horror stories unfolding. This one, much, much darker, really, in Oklahoma three teenagers were charged today in the shooting death of Australian college student Christopher Lane. He was gunned down last week while jogging. The suspects are 15, 16 and 17 years old and what makes this story so disturbing besides the murder, police say they targeted lane randomly because they had nothing better to do. The story tonight from Alina Machado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't imagine this happening in this neighborhood.
ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shock and disbelief in the small Oklahoma town where Chris Lane, an Australian student at East Central University was gunned down in what police say was a random attack. The 15-year-old James Edwards Jr. and 16-year- old Tiancy Luna are charged as adults with first-degree felony murder.
The 17-year-old Michael Jones is facing two charges including accessory after the fact to murder in the first-degree. Authorities say the teens were on a mission to kill, supposedly just for the thrill of it.
CHIEF DANNY FORD, DUNCAN, OKLAHOMA POLICE: They witnessed the young man run by on the street, chose him as a target.
MACHADO: Chief Danny Ford said Lane was out jogging Friday afternoon when the teens drove up and shot him in the back.
FORD: There were people that saw him stagger across the road, go to a kneeling position and collapse on the side of the road.
MACHADO: A woman told police she ran to Lane and tried to help by performing CPR. Another witness dialed 911. Lane was taken to a local hospital where he died. Police say one of the teens told investigators details of the killing and where they could find the murder weapon. Thousands of miles away in Australia, Lane's father shared the family's heart break.
PETER LANE, VICTIM'S FATHER: He's left his mark as we know, and there is not going to be any good come out of this because it was so senseless. It's happened. It's wrong, and we just trying to deal with it the best we can.
COOPER: CNN's Alina Machado reporting. Up next, an almost unbelievable twist to a chilling crime, why a nurse was convicted of killing this 15-month-old girl named Chelsea and suspected of killing dozens of other babies may be soon released from prison. Chelsea's mom joins us next.
Also had a desperate fight to save homes in the line of fire in Idaho.
COOPER: The get out of jail card that will soon allow a suspected serial killer to walk free when 360 continues.
COOPER: In "Crime and Punishment" tonight, a convicted baby killer will soon walk free in Texas even though she's serving a 99- year sentence and is suspected of murdering dozens of other children. Janine Jones is a former pediatric nurse who parents trusted to care for their children instead she allegedly targeted them.
Now this convicted murderer has a perfectly legal way out of prison and law enforcement has one way of keeping her inside that's by finding another victim whose life was cut short like Chelsea McClellan's. Here is Randi Kaye.
RANDI KAYE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back in 1982, Chelsea McClellan just 15 months old needed immunizations. It was routine stuff. Chelsea's mother, Petti, took her to the local clinic in Texas, but what happened next is anything but routine that's because Janine Jones was the nurse on duty. Chelsea's mom remembers what happened next, all hell broke loose.
PETTI MCCLELLAN-WIESE, DAUGHTER KILLED BY NURSE: She gave her, her first shot in her left thigh, and she immediately started gasping for air, turned around and gave her another one and she immediately went limp and quit breathing.
KAYE: In the chaos of rushing Chelsea from the clinic to the hospital, Janine Jones somehow slipped into the ambulance and gave the little girl a third shot. Petti would later learned the nurse had injected her daughter with the drug called succinylcholine, which causes muscle relaxation and short term paralysis. It stopped Chelsea's heart.
Two years later, in 1984, Jones was convicted of infanticide and sentenced to 99 years in prison for killing Chelsea. Plus 60 years for injuring another child who had survived. To this day, she still says she did nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Jones, do you have any reaction at all, anything to say?
KAYE: For Chelsea's parents, the verdict was bittersweet. Their daughter was gone, but her killer would spend the rest of her life behind bars, at least that's what they thought. It turns out Janine Jones is scheduled to walk free.
(on camera): Jones will be automatically released because of an old Texas law designed to prevent prison over overcrowding. The mandatory release law allows inmates convicted of violent crimes between 1977 and 1987 to be automatically released if good their behavior credit plus time served equals their sentence. The law was changed in 1987 to exclude violent criminals but it isn't retroactive.
(voice-over): It's now a game of beat the clock. Chelsea's mother and Andy Kahan, a victim's advocate for the city of Houston are desperately trying to find other mothers whose babies who may have been killed by Janine Jones. A new conviction could keep her locked up. Otherwise Kahan believes she'll be the first serial killer ever to walk free.
ANDY KAHAN, VICTIM'S ADVOCATE, CITY OF HOUSTON: In reality, she'll have served less than one year for every infant credited with murdering, unheard of and never happened in our country before.
KAYE: Sadly, there is reason to believe other victims exist. When Jones worked in San Antonio between 1978 and 1982, her shift became known as the death shift because so many babies were mysteriously dying. Cheri Pendergraft worked alongside her.
CHERI PENDERGRAFT, WORKED AT HOSPITAL WITH GENENE JONES: The death rate was higher than it had been in previous months and previous years as I went back. So we started to question why is that happening and I also noticed that it tended to concentrate more on the 3:00 to 11:00 shift, which was the shift Genene was working mostly. KAYE: Genene Jones was suspected of killing as many as 46 babies, but was only charged in the death of Chelsea McClellan. Kahan's job is only complicated by the fact that many of the victims' records were either destroyed or disappeared, but so far two mothers reached out to him. Marina Rodriguez lost her son in 1981 after she says Genene Jones gave him a shot at a San Antonio clinic. At just five months old he had a heart attack and died.
MARINA RODRIGUEZ, BELIEVES JONES KILLED HER SON: All of a sudden, he turned blue and all of a sudden I started hearing code blue and of course, they put me to the side because I'm a young mommy and I'm freaking out.
KAYE: Back then Marina was just 15, too young to afford a lawyer. Her parents were migrant farmers. Marina couldn't even read.
(on camera): How would you feel if she got out?
RODRIGUEZ: She is not getting out. If my son has to be exhumed to prove that she murdered him, then that's the step we'll take. They aren't dealing with a little girl anymore, this is a woman now.
KAYE (voice-over): Marina Rodriguez and the other families are Petti McClellan-Weise's only hope.
WIESE: Thirty years in prison is not justice. It's not justice for Chelsea.
KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, Houston.
COOPER: Under that expired Texas law Genene Jones will walk free in 2017. A lot of people understandably are outraged over that, no one more than Petti McClellan-Wiese who we just saw in Randi's piece. Her 15-month-old daughter, Chelsea, was killed by Jones.
Ms. McClellan, thank you so much for being with us. My condolences to you on the loss of your daughter, Chelsea. I can't imagine what this has been like. When you heard she could go free, what did you think?
WIESE: Well, the first time I heard it, I just -- I didn't even acknowledge it because I thought it was absolutely impossible, and I really didn't realize that it was going to happen. It was -- unless another case was found to probably about six months ago.
COOPER: And you're convinced --
WIESE: I was horrified.
COOPER: You're convinced that Jones could do this again?
WIESE: Absolutely, absolutely. Anybody that knew her and has dealt with her that was across the board, that's an agreement with everybody. COOPER: This -- I mean, this nurse who killed your daughter, I can't imagine -- I can't begin to imagine why someone would do something like that. Did she seem like there was something off about her when you actually saw her?
WIESE: Well, it -- when she was taking care of the kids, she has this very kind, loving, you know, like these children were her life and meant everything to her, but then in a crisis, it was like her -- she would get this wild look and she had a reputation for being very aggressive, and very -- she was very narcissistic and loved the media and attention. So everything really changed after, you know -- and I -- I kept telling them and my family that she did something to her.
COOPER: And you actually saw this woman at your daughter's grave one day.
WIESE: Yes, right after Chelsea died, I spent a lot of time -- I would go every day and I went there to put some fresh flowers on, and she was there, and she was just rocking back and forth whaling. That's the only word to use is whaling, and I asked her what she was doing, and she literally looked at me with a glassy-eyed look and walked right past me and never responded to it.
COOPER: God. When there is obviously this effort to prove this woman killed other children, she's suspected in the deaths of more than 40 other kids, prosecutors think she may have killed up to 46 kids, if there is anyone out that there that might have information that would keep your daughter's killer behind bars, what would you want to say to them?
WIESE: I want them to not be afraid to come forward because this isn't just about Chelsea anymore. This is about all the families and all the children in San Antonio that died that shouldn't have, and they need their justice, too. And they need their stories told because the only difference between their situation and Chelsea's is where the San Antonio hospital chose to cover it up and not do anything about it and send her about her way with a good reference. The Kerrville Hospital, decided something is wrong and do something about it. Those babies and those families, they need a voice.
COOPER: Yes, well thank you so much for speaking up tonight and I hope it helps and we'll continue to follow this because it's unthinkable to think of this woman getting out there. Thank you so much.
WIESE: Thank you, Anderson. Appreciate it.
COOPER: Stay strong.
Still ahead, we'll meet a homeowner forced out by wildfires. Good news tonight and we're learning more how badly wounded the Boston bombing suspect was before his arrest.
COOPER: Smoke from dozens of wildfires hangs over the western third of the country. Look at the map, each individual flame indicates an active fire. The large pink area indicates that conditions are hot and dry enough for new fires to ignite at anytime. The Beaver Creek wildfire in Idaho is especially destructive. Take a look that, 106,000 acres scorched so far, 1,800 firefighters on the front lines. While the fire is 9 percent contained and touch and go, they have turned a corner. Gary Tuchman is in Idaho for us tonight.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the not knowing that's the hardest part, not knowing if your house is still standing or up in flames. It's what Pamela Sue Martin wants to know as she watches helicopters drop water right where her house is located.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm very grateful they are there. I really am. Watching these fires on these mountains for the last three days burn it down.
TUCHMAN: Pamela is an actress and writer who had a successful career on "Nancy Drew" and "Dynasty" among other shows. She's one of the many celebrities who live here in the Sun Valley, Idaho area, but she lives here year round, it's not a second home.
PAMELA SUE MARTIN, IDAHO RESIDENT: It's been very, very hard. Really all the emotions are coming now watching them put it out.
TUCHMAN: Pamela took these dramatic pictures of the area where her house is during the peak of the fire. Her house still sits in one of the hottest and most vulnerable spots in the blaze. She watches the choppers and wonders.
(on camera): How long have you lived here?
MARTIN: Twenty eight years.
TUCHMAN: You've been here 28 years.
MARTIN: Right there, right where they are dropping the water.
TUCHMAN: Pamela lives adjacent to the Wood River. The Wood River is one of the places where the helicopters are dropping their buckets to refill. There are 15 helicopters flying in and out of this area.
(voice-over): The evacuation order is still in effect, but we went with Pamela to her house to see if it escaped the flames.
(on camera): Pamela, it looks like your house is OK.
MARTIN: Well, it's standing and I'm really grateful for that.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): The flames aren't far away, but firefighters and choppers are close by.
MARTIN: It reminds me of all the Vietnam movies, I mean, in Vietnam it feels -- it is like a war, it is like a war for them fighting the fire and I feel for them.
TUCHMAN: The danger is not over yet, but Pamela feels much better now than when we met her a short time ago.
(on camera): Do you believe your house is safe?
MARTIN: I know my house is safe now.
COOPER: Gary Tuchman joins us from beautiful Haley, Idaho. When can they move back in their homes? Do you know?
TUCHMAN: Authorities are saying they hope that nearly everybody will be able to go back to their homes tomorrow and Thursday. The winds picked up in the last 30 minutes, and that's normally not good news but authorities to believe they are moving the positive direction. There is 9 percent containment, but it doesn't mean there's 91 percent fire. That means 91 percent of the land is vulnerable.
They hope by tonight they have an official 20 percent containment. They hope by the end of the week 50 percent containment, but do they believe at this point, whatever the numbers are, most people will be back at their homes no later than two days from now.
COOPER: We wish them the best. Gary, thanks.
Let's get caught up on some of the other stories we're following. Susan Hendricks has the 360 Bulletin -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the prosecution rested its case today against Major Nadal Hassan, the Army psychiatrist charged with murdering 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas in 2009. Hasan is representing himself at his court martial. It's unclear if he'll take the stand in his own defense.
Newly released court documents show Boston marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev suffered multiple severe gunshot injuries before his capture in April. This includes a gunshot that appears to have entered his mouth and exited through the left side of his face. The documents don't indicate whether it was self-inflicted or down the showdown with police when he was cornered in the back of the boat outside a home.
Wildlife officials are trying to determine what is causing so many dolphins to die along the eastern seaboard. There have been at least 228 dolphin deaths this year from New York to Virginia. In all of 2012, 111 deaths were recorded.
An Indiana woman is reunited with her stolen dog five years after she disappeared, thanks to the computer chip in her Rottweiler, an Arizona shelter was able to put the two back together. Great site to see. No word on who took Sasha and where she's been. I bet she has a story to tell.
COOPER: I bet. Susan, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Our interview with Glenn Greenwald and David Miranda went long so we ran out of time for the "Ridiculist." That's does it for us. We'll see you again one hour from now at 10 p.m. Eastern. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.