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Where is Erica Parsons?
Aired August 20, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a teenage girl missing for two years and no one notices. Investigators looking into allegations of abuse find red stained floors and walls.
And magazines about JonBenet Ramsey. What happened to Erica Parsons? Her childhood friend joins me for her first interview.
And Andrea Sneiderman convicted of lying about an affair with the man who murdered her husband. Is she sorry, or just sorry she got caught? The behavior bureau is on the case.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is radio host and attorney, Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, Jenny, convicted liar Andrea Sneiderman begged a judge for mercy today. The behavior bureau will weigh in on her appearance.
But, first up, we have the Erica Parsons story. She vanished two years ago. Nobody noticed or nobody reported it until recently. Her adoptive parents insist she`s not missing, yes. But they haven`t yet seen this special needs child since 2011.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Come on. Come on, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Watch this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A teenage girl missing for nearly two years but only now reported as missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one has seen or heard from 15-year-old Erica Lynn Parsons. But Erica`s adoptive parents insist the girl has been with her paternal grandmother.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Grandma`s been dead for five years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last week, the sheriff`s office began investigating the whereabouts of Erica after her stepbrother James Parsons reported her missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s my fear is something happened and nobody`s telling us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI, SBI, and Rowan County sheriff`s office conducted a massive search of the Parsons property.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m so worried. I`m so worried.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Parsons went from talking to reporters to speeding away anytime they saw a camera. The search warrants revealed allegations of mental and physical abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time she showed up at a family function, she had bumps and bruises.
PINSKY: Joining us to discuss: Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL" on HLN and author of the just published book, "Exposed: The Secret Life of Jodi Arias"; Lauren Lake, attorney and host of TV`s "Paternity Court"; attorney Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for Avo.com - that`s Avo.com; and attorney and CNN legal analyst, Danny Cevallos.
Jane, what is your take on this story?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Follow the money, Dr. Drew. It boils down to three numbers: 634. That`s how much they got every month. And they kept taking the money for years even though the child was not there.
This is pure greed, plain and simple. It`s obscene. It`s outrageous. And I could understand why they raced away in their cars when reporters wanted to talk to them.
Imagine the questions.
PINSKY: Yes. Lisa, you agree with that?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: This is absolutely horrendous. This girl has been missing for almost two years. It reminds me very much of Casey Anthony, whose daughter went missing as we all recall, for a long time before she ever reported it.
If you don`t report a child missing immediately, you are highly suspicious. Add to that that the grandmother has been dead for many years, the grandmother who she is supposedly staying with. Not a good outcome for her. I hope the police really stay on this.
PINSKY: Lisa, I don`t know this Casey Anthony person you speak of. It`s confusing to me.
Danny, thank you for joining the program. Do you have any thoughts on this case?
DANNY CEVALLOS, ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely. If anyone out there thinks that this is some kind of strange anomaly that families can be this disastrous, march on down, talk to an attorney that practices any amount of dependency law or your child protective services staff.
This is going on not to this degree every time, but children just disappear by -- and they are adopted by people who similarly are disasters, especially when it`s in family. This kind of abuse happens all the time, and unfortunately children sometimes poof, vanish.
PINSKY: Wow. Jenny, you`re looking in disbelief. But it`s quite something to hear that.
HUTT: OK. Yes, it is quite something to hear it. I`m going to tell you this, Dr. Drew.
My parents took in my cousin, a distant cousin when she was 13 years old. And she`s thriving today as a 50-something-year-old woman. So it does not happen every time, thankfully.
HUTT: Hold on. Danny, let me just say something. I said my parents -- let me just finish.
But I don`t understand how no one in the community noticed this kid has been missing for two years. How is that possible?
CEVALLOS: What a surprise. What a surprise. American communities have degenerated. Look. Most -- not every family is Dr. Drew fretting over SAT scores. The vast majority out there are having kids irresponsibly --
HUTT: Look, Danny.
CEVALLOS: -- letting the system help take care of them.
HUTT: Danny, somewhere between --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s an example of our reactive justice system. Now, now, that the child`s missing, oh let`s pull out all the stops now that it maybe too late. Where was social services?
CEVALLOS: What do you want to do? Add infrastructure? Are we going to add more infrastructure? More government services? The family has to do it.
PINSKY: Hold on. I want to -- although Danny clearly has been talking to my kids, I want to get Lauren in on this.
Lauren, what do you got?
LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, first of all, I`m outraged. Because when you think of a special needs child, if they were missing and unaccounted for, for two hours, you would be nervous.
Two years? This is unacceptable. And the ball has been dropped on so many levels. We do have to examine our agencies, the community, as well as the parents.
We hear accounts this child had bumps, bruises, signs of abuse. And this child is gone for two years and it`s never even been reported? It`s absolutely outrageous. But I think --
PINSKY: It is outrageous and I agree with you, but I`m intrigued by Danny`s take on this. Because when you do work inside these systems, you get kind of jaded.
LAKE: But, Danny -- but, Dr. Drew, I was just about to get to this. Let me finish my point. It`s outrageous --
PINSKY: Please, go ahead.
LAKE: -- but my big however, my big however was we have to keep it real. In this country, people are using, taking care of special needs children as a new side hustle. It`s a new business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LAKE: It`s a way to collect an extra check and pay some more bills. I take in the child other people don`t want to deal with and I get this money.
We have to be very honest that this is happening more often than we want to believe. And because we turn a blind eye and we`re in denial, these children are going missing and they`re being abused.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: I actually saw you reached for the camera and grabbed me around the truth, Jane. What are you trying to say?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s obscene.
PINSKY: It is obscene. Do you agree, Lisa?
BLOOM: OK. But here`s the other part of it, if I may. OK. Here`s the other part of it. This little girl was home schooled and the parents never once had to account for the state as to how she was doing in school.
There were no tests provided. You know, there were no updates. They didn`t have to submit their curriculum. We can`t allow home schooling to be complete isolation for a child.
PINSKY: Well, there`s that and we don`t really know what the special -- I`m going to talk to one of her friends in a few minutes and find out the degree of her disability. We don`t know what that is yet.
But, Lisa -- Danny, Lisa is evidently worried about SATs and tings like that the way I am. But I`m so intrigued by your vision of the world. I mean, it`s as though something like this is no big deal, it just kind of happens in our horrible system. Is that what you`re telling me?
CEVALLOS: Whoa, I`m not saying it`s no big deal at all. I`m saying that it`s common place.
And attorney Hutt brings up exactly what I`m talking -- you bring up the exception of the family that is perfect for raising a child. Well, that`s the exception. There are many families that are adopting children. They are not the ideal movie family that adopts a child. They`re disasters too. A lot of time kids are placed with kinship care and then someone else in that same disastrous family gets the kid.
And I tell you what, you can fool a court on a couple of appearances and get possession of a kid and start hammering those checks. Unfortunately, it`s the sad truth.
BLOOM: But this is not common.
HUTT: But the child is missing for two years, right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There was violence in the home before the adoption, two convictions.
PINSKY: What`s that, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There was violence in the home. Sandy beat up Casey twice. There`s two convictions. And they still said this is a fine home for this child to go into. You know what? Government bureaucracy is broken. Broken.
PINSKY: And, Jane, we`re all kind of saying the same thing.
CEVALLOS: It`s not the government`s job. Sorry, Doc.
PINSKY: I agree with you, Danny.
But, Lauren, you`re building a case against more and more disturbing. And, Lauren, you kind of put the final icing on it for me by saying that not only is the system broken the way Jane is saying, not only are these common place sorts of disasters as the kids fall through the cracks. But you`re saying out and out flatly that this is the new hustle.
LAKE: Oh, absolutely. I mean, there are families that these children represent a check. And if I take this child into my home, I get the check. And listen, Dr. Drew, the worst part is there`s very little checks and balances as to how I`m spending that money.
Look, I can spend it however I want to. Give me the check. I`ll cash it. Who knows if the child gets anything? Who knows if the child is educated? Who knows if the child is clothed?
And during the home visits -- I hate to side with Danny in this and be so cynical -- but you can dress a child up real quick for home visit and get through that and go on back to dysfunction one minute later. It is a problem and it`s happening.
CEVALLOS: I`ve seen it.
PINSKY: Here`s what I want to do. You guys have really painted a picture here that is terribly disturbing. It confirms everything I think about bureaucracies by the way.
I still wonder why the community is not taking care of itself. I still wonder what happened to this little girl. There`s horrible evidence accumulating we`re going to go over in just a couple of minutes. But I`m up against the clock here.
So, thank you, panel. We`re going to focus back on this girl and we`re going to talk to a woman who says she and Erica were like sisters. She`ll be with me. I`m curious why she didn`t report her missing as well.
And later, we`ll get back into Andrea Sneiderman who turned on the tears today, at least a little bit with -- well, kind of. There she is crying. But I`m not so sure I believe them. Were they for real?
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
GRACE: This special needs little girl is missing. She`s been missing for two years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erica`s custody was transferred to the adoptive parents who are now the focus of the investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search warrants revealed allegations of mental and physical abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though Erica was missing, she was -- the family was still collecting $634 every month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don`t want the child. They want a paycheck.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Welcome back. My co-host is Jenny Hutt.
Special needs teen Erica Parsons has been missing for almost two years. We got a very heated discussion before the break.
Jenny, I`ve got a tweeting response to that. It says, "@DrDrew, Danny is right, Danny Cevallos. I work in children`s services. This happens all the time."
Can you imagine that?
HUTT: No. I mean, all the -- Dr. Drew, look. I think somewhere between the parents who only care about the SATs which, by the way, plenty of those parents can do things that are wrong to their kids.
PINSKY: Jenny, I consider that a direct attack on me. How dare you?
HUTT: And the people that Danny`s referring to. Somewhere in between is a whole group of people -- some bad, some not bad. I think that to blanket classify everybody is incorrect. That`s all I`m saying.
PINSKY: Of course. No, I understand. But the fact that this stuff is common place enough that people who work in these systems are frustrated and say, that`s where it goes. I don`t know.
Her adoptive parents say she`s living with her grandmother. They believe she`s there now, but no one can find trace of her or the grandmother. And there are disturbing details about the adoptive parents being we revealed.
Also back with us, Jenny, is Lauren Lake. And joining us now: Samantha Schacher, social commentator and host of "Pop Trigger" in Young Turks Network; psychologist Wendy Walsh, author of the "30-Day Love Detox".
And on the phone. We are welcoming Crystal Owensby, who lived with Erica and considers her like a sister. Crystal, thanks for joining us.
So, did you think it was odd that no one had seen Erica in such a long time?
CRYSTAL OWENSBY, LIVE WITH MISSING GIRL (via telephone): Yes. They just came out. Yes, you better have --
PINSKY: Crystal, can you hear me?
OWENSBY: Yes, I can.
PINSKY: Crystal, hi. You`re live on the television here.
Why didn`t -- let me ask.
PINSKY: Hi there, thanks for joining us.
Let me ask you a question. Why didn`t you report Erica missing?
OWENSBY: Because I didn`t know she was missing. Because, I mean, like I was explaining to them. I didn`t know, like we didn`t really stay in contact that well, like I didn`t really talk to her on her phone. Her mother did.
PINSKY: I see. And tell me, can you tell us what the nature of her disability was?
OWENSBY: I`m not sure. All I know is they said she had a learning disability. That she was -- like it was hard for her to learn and catch on.
PINSKY: Crystal, is that why they were home schooling her? And did they actually give her real home schooling?
OWENSBY: I`m not sure about that, because I mean, like I said, we really didn`t stay in contact. I`m not the one that spoke to her on the phone. It was her biological mother, Carolyn Parsons.
PINSKY: What do you mean by that?
OWENSBY: I didn`t know that she had tried to contact her, but they always said she was gone and --
PINSKY: OK. Let me ask you this. Crystal. Erica`s stepbrother has reported that the parents routinely or had abused Erica. Did you ever see any evidence of that?
OWENSBY: No, I didn`t see evidence of it. But there was pictures that she had sent to some of her friends and had posted on Facebook showing that she had bruises. But I didn`t -- I mean, I didn`t know if they was from her parents, her adoptive parents or what that was from.
PINSKY: I want to give me panel a chance to ask you questions.
First up, Samantha. Your hand was up.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I`m curious why was Casey -- why did Casey have so much disdain for Carolyn, her biological mom? Do you know why?
OWENSBY: Right now, I`m sorry I couldn`t understand you.
PINSKY: Why did Casey not like Carolyn, the biological mom. Casey, the adoptive mom, apparently didn`t like the biological mom. In fact said that Erica reminded her of the biological mom.
Why was there so much tension there?
OWENSBY: I`m not sure. I really don`t know, like, Carolyn tried to stay in contact. She was trying to be nice, like she never had complications with her. She was never rude to her. I don`t know, like, I know Erica. She just looked just like Carolyn, and I didn`t know if maybe she didn`t like Carolyn because she gave Erica up.
But, I mean, Carolyn had to do what was best for Erica and she felt that that was best for Erica.
PINSKY: I understand.
Lauren, you have a question for Crystal and then, Jenny -- Lauren.
LAKE: Yes, Crystal, the grandmother -- the grandmother that Carolyn says she dropped Erica off to live with for two years. When you knew Erica, when you were close, when you spoke, did she ever mention this grandmother and the fact she had a relationship and would potentially want to go live with her?
OWENSBY: No. She never even knew her grandmother.
PINSKY: OK. Jenny?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
HUTT: You touched on something. Why did Erica`s biological mom give her up to the adoptive parents at 13? What was the reason?
OWENSBY: I can`t really say. Like, I mean, I don`t know. I was young myself.
OWENSBY: I can`t answer for that.
PINSKY: All right, Crystal.
WENDY WALSH, AUTHOR, "30-DAY LOVE DETOX": I want to know -- I want to know why this adoptive couple took on this 13-year-old. What was in it for them? Of course, we`re hearing about the checks they`re getting.
PINSKY: Let`s even broaden that out. Did they seem to love Erica? Did they take good care of her? Or were they just in it for the money?
OWENSBY: I mean, I don`t know, because I wasn`t there. But to me it seems like they were more about the money because if they did care and love for, Erica, then it seems like they would have reported her missing the day she left, because for someone to sit there and say you love this child, you cannot sit there and let them be gone for two years and not know where she`s at or if she`s OK. Or I mean, that just -- I don`t understand that.
HUTT: You`re really worried about this.
PINSKY: Crystal, you`re getting emotional. I can understand that. It`s probably been a couple years since you`ve seen her.
Are you worried? Do you suspect some foul play here?
OWENSBY: Yes, I do. I don`t know from what I`ve seen on TV, these parents. I don`t want -- I have four children of my own. And there`s no way that I could let my child be gone for two years and just now report it. And not know and have no kind of contact with her child. I don`t understand that.
PINSKY: Crystal, let`s pray that your friend Erica is still out there. Is there something -- if she happens to be listening, you`d like to say to her?
OWENSBY: I want her to know -- Erica, we love you. I love you as a real sister. And if you`re listening, please if you can get any chance to a phone, call us, come home.
We love you. We`re really worried about you. And we want you home where no one`s mad at you and it don`t matter where you`re at. Just call us. Get in contact with us and come home.
PINSKY: OK, Crystal. Thank you for joining us. I want you to now turn the television off. We`re going to talk about a more unpleasant part of this case. But thank you for joining us.
I have Dr. Bill Lloyd coming up next. He -- he`s going to make sense of some of the suspected blood stains and knives that were found at the scene. He thinks foul play may be in order here. I don`t have no idea what the home repair is about. But we will find out after the break.
And later, the convicted liar breaks down before the judge puts her in prison. Andrea Sneiderman. Did she lie again on the stand today? At least emotionally?
We`ll be back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
GRACE: Outrage. This special needs little girl is missing. The adoptive parents have given a couple of media interviews. And they keep referring to her in the past tense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search warrants revealed allegations of mental and physical abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m hoping for the best, but I really don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Malnutrition, neglect, and abuse before murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It becomes easy when you have people like this who appear to be sadistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parents may have killed her and buried her in the backyard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their sadism maybe took them a little too far. She died. They buried her. They covered it up. They pretended like it didn`t happen.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: These are heavy allegations.
Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt, and Jane Velez-Mitchell, Danny Cevallos, Lauren Lake. We`re talking about the Erica Parsons case. She`s been missing for over two years before anyone reported it.
Joining us now, our own criminal mind pathologist Dr. Bill Lloyd.
All right, Dr. Lloyd, do you suspect that these allegations of child abuse suggests that this went further and we actually have a murder on our hands here?
DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: Yes, I think we do and the reason is because of the expert detective work your producers have done. We had access to the search warrants that were issued for the property of Casey and Sandy Parson, and they went through it with a fine toothed comb. You can imagine computers, clothing, all the usual stuff.
But they also found what may be blood and they were able to take samples from floor boards and dry wall to do a proper laboratory investigation to identify if it`s the blood belonging to missing Erica.
PINSKY: Well, here`s according to the search warrant you`re referencing, they collected the following items from the home of Erica`s adoptive parents. As you said, the dry wall, base board, and flooring from a closet area, all displaying so called red stains. Presumably, they will do analysis on that. Two large knives wrapped in shrink wrap.
Dr. Lloyd, what do you make of that?
LLOYD: They could have sent those knives out to the store for sharpening. I`m not sure that they play a role in this case. But let me tell you this.
Before they took out their own knives and started cutting out pieces of dry wall, they went through the entire property, Drew. And you can bet they used plenty of luminol, the chemical substance that lights up blood residue, because when they start destroying a house and start taking parts of the wall away, the investigators themselves start creating more and more evidence. And leaving debris and relocating it around the house. And none of that would be admissible in a future murder trial.
So they went through first and looked at the blood residue throughout the property, zeroed in on the closet. And then they took their samples.
PINSKY: And, Jane, here`s the part that`s got my producers all in a - - their tails in a knot. There was a plastic bag with magazines about JonBenet Ramsey and a book about her disappearance. Jane, do you make anything of that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, taking notes, perhaps. I mean, everything in this case is so horrifying. There was reportedly a charge or a claim of abuse and social workers visited the family when she was about four, Erica.
And you know what they said? Instead of really investigating the charge, they did a family assessment where they all sit down together and say, "How can we help you all?"
Well, you know what? A child is not going to say anything when they`re sitting right in front of their abusers. And so, I think that`s crazy. I mean, everything in this case stinks.
PINSKY: Lauren, the likelihood of a murder charge with no body.
LAKE: Oh, it`s absolutely possible. As Dr. Lloyd said, the physical evidence, the forensic -- if they find blood stains, if they find enough evidence that they feel there`s probable cause that a crime was committed, a murder was committed, you better believe it could be possible.
Is it more difficult? Absolutely. I`m personally praying that we do find her still alive. However, given what I`m reading and what I`m hearing about these two and the fact this length of time, I mean -- and Dr. Lloyd can speak to this -- two years. Two years.
What state could the evidence be in at this point? Her body, if it is still out there somewhere, God forbid and she`s gone, what story could it tell, Doctor, at this point after two years?
PINSKY: Speaking of stories being told, Dr. Lloyd, please what are you doing?
LLOYD: When Casey and Sandy have a problem around the house, whether it`s a light bulb or a light fixture that won`t work or a clog toilet, you go get a book. You go get a book that`s got the tips on how to solve your problem. Well, they also found books at the persons` household including the book that`s all about the murder of Jonbenet Ramsey. And all the clues and all the steps that were taken by the perpetrator that the police have yet to unravel.
They also found magazines and handwritten notes with these materials. This is very damning evidence. And I want to ask Jane, specifically, about the Parsons, because the mother Carolyn Parsons, has the same last names. Are they related or is everybody in that part of North Carolina a Parsons? And the sons, why did the sons choose July 31st to pick up the phone?
PINSKY: I don`t think we know that yet. Jane, do you know that?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR: Well, look, the scariest thing that I heard was the adoptive mother couldn`t stand to look at this child because she looked like the biological mother. And Casey said she couldn`t stand the biological mother. You know, that is classic abuse set up where the child is wrong no matter what she does because of how she looks. And friends and relatives reported that she was always being punished.
PINSKY: Jane, that is really -- as disturbing as all this is and Dr. Lloyd has painted a picture here that`s really disturbing. I`m still most disturbed by what Danny was saying earlier in the show. And Danny, I want to read you a tweet from an @Sandy -- I-D-A-U-F. She references all of us and she refers mostly to Jenny who says, "Jenny, you`ve been living in a plastic bubble. If you really saw the world, your heart would be broken."
Danny, you have this sort of jaded look of the system and what`s gone on here. You say this is common place. What is your take on this? Is this just a system that is just so broken that a child has just slipped through the cracks and she`s just somewhere out there and they can`t find her or do you suspect murder, too?
DANNY CEVALLOS, ATTORNEY: Doctor, the system is broken. But the system is not government services. The system is the American family. It`s the fractured, the dad who gives a weekly sop and is out of the picture. I mean, this kid had to be taken away and put up for adoption. So, the idea that the system could expand more and more and actually we could legislate good parenting is insane.
It only will begin with a community and that`s what broke down here. There were a number of people, humans, with minimal responsibility. Everyone throws up their hands now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t insult all adoptive families. There`s plenty of good adoptive parents.
CEVALLOS: I didn`t.
PINSKY: No. But Jane, he`s making a point which is that we have problems all the way through, and I agree with him. From the family to the community to these bureaucracies, and ultimately, if we could fix our families more but you can`t legislate that, can you? We have to -- we have to all individually go at that, but that is for another time. Thank you, guys.
Next up, a sobbing Andrea Sneiderman begs the judge to go easy on her. He did not.
And later, her excuses apologies and regrets. Is she, in fact, really sorry? "Behavior Bureau" takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, make yourself comfortable. Come on in, ladies and gentlemen, make yourself comfortable. Come on in, ladies and gentlemen, make yourself comfortable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Andrea Sneiderman, count one hindering the apprehension of a criminal, guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bottom line, guilty on nine of 13 counts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Andrea Sneiderman was sentenced today for lying about an affair with her boss, the man who murdered her husband. Take a look at this tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her pathetic narcissism would be almost comical if it weren`t tied to the death of such a special person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And if we put her in jail for 20 years, we`re all losing. We`re all losing. And so -- I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Through the past year, she has been at home with those kids. Those children do not know a night without her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has been here every day. She has shown up every day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I still believe that Rusty would want Andrea to be with her children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not a lifetime movie. We don`t have a script in front of us. But the children, they`re so little they need their mommy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rusty was like a son to me. Sophia was born prematurely. We assisted Rusty and Andrea by visiting the hospital every day while she was close to dying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t know this mild mannered business executive was capable of killing anyone. The state wrongly charged me with a murder that I had nothing to do with and would do anything to undo.
PINSKY: Andrea spoke for about nine minutes. We`ll have more in that a minute. But the judge then sentenced her straight out to five years in prison. Still with us, Lauren Lake, Danny Cevallos, Lisa Bloom, and Jane Velez-Mitchell.
Before we go on to Andrea Sneiderman, Jane, I just want to remind people. We`ve only got a couple seconds here to -- I could gush, but there it is. Your new book, "Expose the Secret Life of Jodi Arias." It is out today. Everybody, click through an Amazon. Get that book. And Jane, thank you for letting me be a part of that.
VELEZ-Mitchell: Thank you. You gave me great advice, a great analysis of her psychological problems, Dr. Drew. And it`s the epilogue to the book. And really, your analysis is what brings it all together at the very end. All the new information we got about her previous stalking and her assuming the persona of the ex-wife of one of her boyfriends, all the creepy stuff we learned.
You tie it all together by talking about how borderlines operate and her magical thinking. It`s really -- she`s unbelievably diabolical.
PINSKY: She is. And I guess, we`ll be seeing her in court again on Monday. And so, we`ll have updates, and we`ll, of course, all be following that case, but thank you, Jane. Again, it`s on Amazon to check out the book. It`s out today.
I want to return back to Andrea Sneiderman and my panel. Lisa, your reaction to the sentencing.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: You know, five years is a long time for a perjury conviction. She`s not convicted of murder. She`s convicted of perjury. As much as a lot of HLN viewers seem to really hate her, I would frankly like to see her at home with the children. I know I`m probably getting a lot of hate mail for that.
But she`s convicted of perjury, and I hate to say this as well, but a lot of people lie in court. It`s wrong. It`s a terrible thing. But five years is a pretty stiff sentence for perjury.
PINSKY: You guys are really uplifting today. We have a child protective system is broken --
PINSKY: -- people lie in court. Lauren, what do you make of the sentencing?
LAUREN LAKE, JUDGE OF "PATERNITY COURT": Poor Dr. Drew.
LAKE: We`ve been so negative today.
PINSKY: I know.
LAKE: You know, I will say it`s the judge`s discretion. And as defense attorney, look, we`ve seen a lot of people walk right on in the court and right on out of court with a perjury charge. However, in this situation, there is a murder. Even though she was never tried for that murder, court of public opinion, unfortunately, may have a little to play with the judge`s decision.
And ultimately, running them concurrently instead of consecutively would have just been a nightmare, you know, she got off OK. Four years after her time served, she`ll be back with her children. It`s a little rough from a defense angle, but from the judge`s position, I feel like she needed to go down a little bit.
PINSKY: Jenny, what do you say?
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: I just --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought you were calling me, because I`m steaming.
PINSKY: Hold on (ph). Let me go Jenny, Jane, and then Danny.
PINSKY: Go ahead. Let`s have Danny. Go ahead, Danny. Finish up. She`s lucky (ph), you finish that thought.
CEVALLOS: Yes. I call her lucky. Very quickly. This was a case where the murder charge was dropped just before trial. That`s what she was looking at and they proceeded on perjury. And it`s been said before, the judge could have consecutive her, which means she would begin -- she would serve each sentence, one after the other.
If anything, I mean, I know she`s going to appeal. She certainly isn`t thrilled, but, I mean, when you consider the power the prosecution has to charge with murder and almost go to trial on it and then roll the dice with the jury, she could have been behind bars forever. Instead, she got a concurrent sentence. Five years. I know she ain`t happy. She rejected one year. It could have been a lot worse.
PINSKY: Jenny, you agree?
HUTT: Yes. Well, I do think it could have been a lot worse, but I also think this is pretty bad. Look, she was not ultimately tried for murder. She did get found guilty for a lot of perjury, but a lot of it was about the affair and covering it up. And she still does not admit to it. And people lie about facts. People lie about who they`re having sex with.
PINSKY: Yes, but Jenny, I think -- to finish up with Jane, I think, Jane, that`s the problem is that people really are angry with her about not being coming forward about that affair.
PINSKY: And not being more forthcoming. Wouldn`t you say?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was originally charged with murder. A prosecutor left and went to do something else and the other prosecutor dropped the charges. And then, when she was convicted of these nine felonies, she could have gotten I don`t know how many decades. And the prosecution only asked for 20 years, and then the judge says five years with time served four years.
She`s going to be out in a couple of years, probably. I mean, this is an outrage. Dr. Drew. We have a two tiered system of justice in this country. One for the rich and include the middle class. And if you look like a middle class, nice middle class lady with two kids, she played the mommy card.
Do you know how many people that behind bars right now who have children who have been ripped away from their families? And these children are suffering. Why is there a special consideration for her?
PINSKY: There you go. We`ll leave it at that. I`ve got the behavior panel going to look in on her performance after this.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," we`ve got an in-studio jury, but we`ve got a special guest we`d like to reveal to you, ladies and gentlemen.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: Juror number 57 from the Andrea Sneiderman case right here with us to tell us what went on in that jury room as our jury considers the bold question, did Andrea Sneiderman lie again today.
POLITAN: And he`ll answer our jury`s questions. Andrea Sneiderman, jury number 57 in studio tonight, "After Dark."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to be clear. There was no physical romance between Mr. Neuman and me. No sex. No kissing. Nothing. I should have quit my job. I filed a report with HR and his from Mr. Neuman. There are so many reasons that I didn`t. I want to go back to the life I had had with Rusty.
This is not a world that I understand anymore. However, I am determined to raise my children to be happy, protective citizens of this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Time for the "Behavior Bureau." Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Here again, Sam Schacher, Wendy Walsh, joining us, psychotherapist, Tiffanie Davis Henry, and body language expert, Susan Constantine. Susan, I want to go to you first. She seems kind of really defiant there. I can`t quite figure out what I`m seeing. What do you see?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, what I`m seeing is histrionics, number one. And I don`t see true sadness in her at all. In fact, when you see true sadness, you`re going to see her eyebrows pinched together with horizontal stripes or horizontal lines across her forehead. You don`t see that here.
In fact, her own words betray herself and her body language does not follow. So, that`s we`re looking it. Here`s the number one thing I want you to look at, though. Did it move you to feel that you were sad? Because if it were truly sadness that she was feeling, it would move everyone of us to feel that same emotion. And it did not do that. It created anger and frustration with all of us. So, no, that was not authentic sadness.
PINSKY: And Samantha, you`re shaking your head --
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I disagree. Yes, I think it was actually kind of humorous, and I feel bad saying that, but I mean, she sounded like she was crying but I didn`t see one tear, Dr. Drew. Not one. I`ve seen better performances in Dr. Drew theater.
PINSKY: OK. Wow! Forgot about that. But Wendy, why do you disagree? Could this be the narcissism that the family kept talking about?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: You know what? No matter what she did, no matter what her mental disorder is, this is a woman whose husband is dead, she`s lost her husband. And now, she`s about to lose her children for four years. I don`t care what you say, there`s got to be some element of sadness going on within her. I mean, I was sad just thinking of the circumstances despite the body language.
PINSKY: All right. Tiffanie, is Wendy overly identifying with this poor woman? I mean, it is a sad situation, (INAUDIBLE), but it is funny how none of our guts are responding normally to her.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I think none of our guts are responding the same. There are so many different things happening in this trial today. You know, one of the things that I picked up on was the only thing that she really apologized for was not reading her e-mails. I`m sorry for that. I apologize for that.
But I don`t apologize for any of the other stuff. My bottom line here and what I got really pissed and upset about was the fact that she`s asking for leniency for her kids. She`s asking for a lot that she could have done herself. She`s in this position because she perjured herself, because she didn`t resist the temptation or the advances of her boss.
HENRY: She`s in this position because she didn`t do what she needed to do for her kids and for her family, but she expects the judge to do that for her and that`s unacceptable.
PINSKY: And the terrible boundaries she maintained that got her into this situation. I think that is exactly right. Back with more "Behavior Bureau" after this.
PINSKY: Back with the "Behavior Bureau." My co-host, Jenny Hutt. We`re discussing the many faces of Andrea Sneiderman, having sentenced to five years in prison today for perjury. And, this woman is creating a lot of interesting reactions from everybody, and my panel, especially. Who was trying to talk to me there? I heard somebody say something. Jenny, go.
HUTT: Yes. I just feel bad for her children, frankly. They have no father. He`s never coming back. And now, their mother`s going to be away for four years. Look, I don`t like her either, however, I feel bad for those kids. What`s going to happen to those kids?
PINSKY: I want to go to Wendy, though, then I`m going to go to Susan. Wendy, you`re the one that identified most strongly with her and gave her a pass. The rest of us are sort of feeling like she created her own destiny and she had boundaries and she would lie and she has to take some consequences.
WALSH: Yes, but that doesn`t mean she`s not sad. First of all, the next time I cry, I do not want to be in front of anybody in your "Behavior Bureau," OK? Because --
WALSH: -- to tear down the body language.
PINSKY: We`ll be watching, Wendy.
WALSH: Right. This is a woman who`s lost her husband. This is a woman who`s about to lose her children. To say she`s faking it on the sadness, I think, is a little unfair.
PINSKY: Well, it`s not faking. It`s what Tiffanie was saying. It was disingenuous. It was disconnected. It wasn`t consistent with the reality.
WALSH: Oh, that`s a fancy word for faking.
PINSKY: Tiffanie, you know what I`m saying?
HENRY: Well, I do know what you`re saying. And actually, Wendy, I do agree with you. I feel bad for her, too. I mean, I think that she is sorry that she has to go to jail and she is sorry that she`s not able to spend tonight with her kids. But the bottom line is, you did the crime and, honey, you`ve got (ph) to do the time
She had no clue that she was going to jail yesterday until they took those nice little bracelets she had off and gave us some new ones.
PINSKY: Control room says I only have 30 seconds. Susan, take me home.
CONSTANTINE: Yes. All right. First of all, there was a fleeting moment where she did show genuine sadness and that was when she was talking about her children. But it completely deflated thereafter. She went right back into performance. And I want to ask this, we have all women on this panel.
How many of you have ever cried and never shed a tear? Because I want to tell you, I cry a river when I cry when I`m sad. And that is consistent with sadness when you cry.
PINSKY: Show of hands as we go out. Show of hands. Tears, yes or no? No tears? Got one there.
PINSKY: "Last Call" coming up next. Got to go.
PINSKY: Time for the "Last Call." Jenny, it goes to you. It`s been a disturbing interesting night with great panelists. What do you say?
HUTT: Yes, Dr. Drew. I want to know what is wrong with the world. That here, you put on a show that really matters about potentially dead children, dead husbands, mothers incarcerated and people are complaining on Twitter that I wear dark nail polish and talk with my hands. Get a grip, people. Don`t you think?
PINSKY: Well, yes. I`ve --
PINSKY: Well, I tell you, we had a nice one. There`s a guy named @aldriver. "Is it like this every night? What a panel. I`ll start watching it more often." So, Jenny --
HUTT: Good. OK.
PINSKY: Thank you all for watching. We`ll see you next time. "HLN After Dark" starts right now.