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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

New Revelations about Jodi Arias

Aired August 20, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. More brand-new explosive information uncovered about convicted murderer Jodi Arias.

We are now less than a week away from learning when Jodi will go in front of a new jury to decide if she should live or die by lethal injection. Will Jodi`s creepy behavior from the past be fair game for this brand-new jury?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You heard everything about that sordid relationship.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER (via phone): You make me so horny.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was using that tape to blackmail him.

ARIAS: I seriously think about having sex with you every day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was the sexually experienced one.

ARIAS: Like how it feels to have your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deep inside of me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was the sexually aggressive one.

ARIAS (on camera): Well, if it`s wrong, I don`t want to be right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias exposed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we barrel towards a new faceoff between prosecutor Juan Martinez and Jodi Arias, I have learned explosive new information from sources extremely close to murder victim Travis Alexander and have written all about it in my brand-new book, "Exposed: The Secret Life of Jodi Arias."

Jodi Arias stalked Travis, and I reveal in my new book also stalked another boyfriend years earlier in the exact same way.

And sources also tell me Jodi became obsessed with the ex-wife of her boyfriend before Travis. Jodi allegedly tried to assume this woman`s entire persona. Sources tell me Jodi dyed her hair blond to look like the ex, got matching breast implants, bought the same kind of car, got a job working at the very same restaurant where she once worked and even manned the same counter at that restaurant, freaking out people close to Darryl`s ex.

This seems right in line with her other kooky behavior. Remember her interrogation room antics?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (singing): It might change my memory.

(speaking): Should have at least done your makeup, Jodi. Gosh. Goodness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I really want to hear from you at home tonight. You know this case. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Tonight in our Lion`s Den, we have an incredible panel, including two of victim Travis Alexander`s very close friends, famous judge Larry Seidlin. And we`re also delighted to be joined by Dr. Drew.

But let`s start with the lawyers. Why didn`t the jury hear about Jodi`s attempt to assume the persona of a boyfriend`s ex-wife? And gee, I think I`ve got to start with Danny Cevallos.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. What the defense lawyers would have done is they would have what we call 403 the evidence. They made an argument that what -- however interesting a jury may have found it, however probative of an issue, the potential for prejudice must have far outweighed.

And as a defense attorney, you`re going to try to exclude that evidence. You don`t want that to come in, because as the prosecutor certainly would have argued, that goes to motive. And of course, prosecutors think everything goes to motive. So they`re going to try and bring all that stuff in...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what?

CEVALLOS: Defense attorneys are going to fight tooth and nail to keep it out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge Larry Seidlin, the truth is prejudicial. This is what I don`t get. Everything it points to, her having a pattern, and the jury didn`t hear about it. Now they were -- they were commonsensical, they convicted her anyway.

But I mean, should they have heard that, A, she had stalked before, and B, that she tried to assume, allegedly, the persona of her last boyfriend`s ex-wife?

LARRY SEIDLIN, JUDGE: We work with the rules of criminal procedure and case law. And case law says all that information is inadmissible. And it would have...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m saying how do you -- Listen, Anahita -- I don`t mean to interrupt you, Judge Seidlin, but -- or maybe I should throw this to Wendy Murphy, because you`re the former prosecutor, and you look like you`re -- you`re about to explode. I mean, it really seems like the most incriminating evidence against her doesn`t get in front of the jury.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don`t know that it`s the most incriminating. But boy, do we stink in this country, in our legal system, pretending that these seemingly nice-looking, monstrous killers, just kind of one day went weird and started killing.

And I think why it has to come in, in this case, and in all kinds of cases like this, this sort of past behavioral stuff, even if it doesn`t exactly prove what happened, is because it gives context so the jury can say, "Oh, so this wasn`t, you know, just one bad day, that she really was, you know, becoming more pathological as the years went by. Now it makes sense to us. Now we can vote for guilt because we can believe the prosecution`s case."

I think a fuller picture, especially of a good-looking monster is only fair to the public and the jury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look. Here`s the thing. She claimed that, essentially, she was normal until she met Travis, and the point is, that`s just so far from the truth, when I was talking to my sources.

MURPHY: That`s exactly right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I uncovered a secret about Jodi that never came up at trial. And, you know, some people who were close with Jodi, while she was dating Darryl, this boyfriend before Jodi [SIC], told me that Jodi really almost looked at his wedding photo with his ex-wife and wanted to become that woman. It was so surreal. It reminded them of something out of that movie "Single White Female."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Someone who borrows.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got a surprise for you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve got to be kidding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like looking at myself.

ANNOUNCER: Someone...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Drew, thank you for joining us tonight.

Sources tell me Jodi really wanted to be Darryl`s ex-wife, because she wanted to be married to Darryl. So what do you make of this, copying her hair, the breast implants, the car she drove and the job she had?

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN ANCHOR: Right. Jane, first of all, congratulations. The book comes out today, if I`m not mistaken. Is that correct?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that`s correct.

PINSKY: Congratulations. Everyone run to Amazon right now, click through, get the book. You`ll learn a ton.

Jane and I shared some ideas about this young lady. Remember, Jane, what I said was, DeMarte proved categorically with a psychological testing profile that she had significant, if not severe borderline personality disorder.

And so the fact is, the jury was already, in fact, told about this kind of behavior. They maybe weren`t explicitly given the manifestations that a borderline can have, but what you`re describing here is that extreme emptiness on the inside that causes her to take on all these other personas is a feature of her -- her particular borderline syndrome.

So in point of fact, they were actually given this information, and if the prosecution needed to fill out the story to make it more commonsensical for the average person, they could have simply said, "You know, part of the borderline syndrome, Dr. DeMarte, is it not true that she could also have taken on other people`s features and dress like other people and have no deep sense of self." And if you remember, she almost said exactly that. So this stuff did actually get in front of the jury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. In a manner of speaking, sort of in its hypothetical as opposed to the nitty-gritty details.

And by the way, I want to thank you, Dr. Drew. Because Nancy Grace wrote the forward to the book, and you pretty much wrote the epilogue, as I went to you for the ultimate analysis of what created this tragedy. So my hats off to you for helping me with that.

PINSKY: My pleasure (ph).

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi claims Travis was the sexual aggressor -- and great stuff you gave me. She only gave in to Travis`s demands for sex, she claimed, to placate him.

Well, in fact, Jodi testified, for example, that on the day of the killing, Travis lost his temper over some scratched CDs and aggressively bent her over the office desk in order to have sex. Let`s listen to this, and then a very special guest will weigh in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He spun me around and bent me over the desk. He grabbed both of my arms, spun me around, and then grabbed my right arm and twisted it around my back.

Usually, when I went along with what he did, he would settle down afterwards.

He pressed his groin up against my butt. He thrusted a few times and then started pulling my pants down.

Typically, when he had sex, it was his way of de-stressing, and then he would calm down after that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Travis`s friends say that`s all a lie. Jodi, they say, was the sexual aggressor and sexually compulsive, and Travis was very inexperienced. I learned from Travis`s best friend that Travis said Jodi was a nymphomaniac.

And in my book, I reveal that another one of Travis`s friends told me Jodi has a stripper kind of energy. "She had that look that said, `Hey, you know, I`m willing to do whatever`."

My very special guest tonight, Sean Alexander, a dear friend of Travis Alexander. You roomed with him, I believe, at one point. You and your wife witnessed Jodi`s highly sexualized, inappropriate behavior firsthand. So tell us that anecdote, which I think really brings the point home.

SEAN ALEXANDER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes. It`s funny, because it`s been a while now, but the very first time I met Jodi, actually, we were at a wedding reception at a church. And I was talking to Travis over by the food. And she came over behind him and started kissing on his neck, sucking on his ear, just kind of all over him. It was really weird and awkward.

And I kind of made a rude remark towards her, whatever. But basically, you know, just comments on the fact that, you know, she was just all over him. It was really uncomfortable and a very strange situation in general.

And I hadn`t even met her. She didn`t say hi. She didn`t introduce herself. She never said hi, actually, now looking back on it. So it just -- it was very awkward; it was really uncomfortable. We really didn`t know what to do, you know.

And her name is actually the same as my wife`s name, Jodi, and it`s spelled the same way, so -- and my last name is Alexander. Travis`s last name is Alexander. He mentioned, "Hey, Sean, if me and Jodi get married, we`ll have the same -- our wives will have the same names."

I said, like, "Well, they will have the same name, but they won`t have the same character." So it was an awkward moment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Didn`t your wife -- didn`t your wife actually say to you that -- that you are to have nothing to do with Jodi Arias, like we`re banned?

S. ALEXANDER: Yes, yes. We -- after we met her and witnessed all that, my wife basically said, we`re not hanging out with Travis until he breaks up with her. So that was the end of that relationship. So that ended up being the very last time I talked to Travis, actually.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kinsey Schofield, you`re a blogger, social media strategist, and you were really in depth in the trial.

When you hear something like that, doesn`t that go completely against the entire sort of theme of Jodi`s testimony, that she was this meek, submissive woman who sort of went along for the sex just because she had to placate Travis?

KINSEY SCHOFIELD, SOCIAL MEDIA STRATEGIST: Absolutely. Jodi Arias was the ultimate victim. She wanted everybody to think she was this sweet, innocent girl that was thrown into this, you know, Mormon lifestyle, and that the Mormon lifestyle is somehow vulgar and demands that she do these things because she has to be submissive to Travis.

And even sitting in the courtroom, you felt this woman`s sexual energy. There was this one young juror, we called him the Hoodie Juror. And he was a young juror, and she always stared at him and had this really uncomfortable energy towards this one juror. You felt this energy even in the courtroom, even as she tried to dress herself down and look ugly and look haggard. She still has that inappropriate, uncomfortable energy about her. Very sexual and deviant.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I got that same feeling in the courtroom. We`re just getting started. We have another friend of Travis Alexander`s, and we`ve got a lot more new information.

We`re also going to talk about whether Jodi Arias and her attorneys have a brand-new strategy that they`re going to unveil Monday as we get to decide whether Jodi Arias lives or dies. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is standing in his bedroom. We hadn`t heard from him for a while. We think he`s dead. His roommate just went in there, and he said there`s lots of blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: What factors influence your having a memory problem?

ARIAS: Usually when men like you are screaming or grilling me, or like Travis.

MARTINEZ: So that affects your memory problem, right?

ARIAS: That`s what makes my brain scramble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her brain was scrambling, but yet she was, I would say, a gifted liar. As I researched her stories on the stand for my book, I basically came up with pretty much every story she told there was an alternate explanation.

Another dear friend of Travis Alexander`s, Dave Hall, with us tonight from Utah. Dave, you spent time with her. You hung out with her. Is she what we call the classic shape shifter in Hollywood? She starts out one way, and then she morphs into something else before your eyes?

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Absolutely. You see it in her versions of her explanation on how the murder happened. First of all, she wasn`t there. Next, the ninjas did it. Then she finally admits -- she finally morphs into the murderer with a good explanation on how it all happened in self-defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Drew, I know we talk about borderline personality disorder. But as you and I have discussed, there are plenty of borderlines who get help. She was intelligent. She knew about transcendentalism and Hinduism, and she studied all sorts of philosophies. She had to know that therapy existed. Why is it, do you think that this woman never take a juncture that would lead to sanity, as opposed to allowing her borderline to bloom?

PINSKY: Yes, it`s really -- I wondered that myself, Jane. And why didn`t the family, why didn`t they step in when they knew they had a girl who was troubled on their hands?

Back when she was -- remember the story about her growing the pot on the roof...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

PINSKY: ... and then she never spoke to her family again after that or never trusted them? That`s nonsense. That has nothing to do with the pot, that`s just when her borderline stuff started emerging.

And I think the simplistic way, although we don`t know the details of what happened, one way to look at it is this. When somebody has a personality disorder, one of the features of a full-blown personality disorder is that they don`t contemplate the problems they`re having in their life are related to them. It`s the world that`s at fault, not them.

So why should they change when it`s the world that`s causing all the trouble in their life? And she may have maintained that posture through her entire adult life to this point. Finally, eventually, as is always the case, the world looks at it and says, "Hey, it`s not us; it`s you."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Judge Larry Seidlin, former Florida state court judge, of course, famous for the Anna Nicole Smith case, isn`t that true, it`s basically every criminal comes before you or any other judge, that in their heads, they`re the victim? It`s almost like the crime is predetermined, because their life has to go sour, because that`s the story line they`ve created for themselves. They put themselves in the victim role, and even though they`re the perpetrator.

SEIDLIN: Jane, I just want to say, I love your book. It`s a page turner. I couldn`t put it down. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

SEIDLIN: You`re welcome. People in the criminal court system, these defendants, they come in and try to make a good impression, because they don`t want me to slam them. They don`t want me to put them in jail that long.

But as you spend time for them and you evaluate them, they`re missing some cards; they`re missing some marbles in the bag. And you see it as they speak, as they talk about things. As -- and their physical actions.

Criminals have definite characteristics. And you begin to recognize those characteristics when you`re sitting in a courtroom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And as I studied Jodi Arias, every story has, really, this alternate explanation. It was called the truth. Every single time she claimed that Travis sexually abused her, for example, and forced her into having kinky sex with him.

I found another story that disputed that. Exhibit A, Jodi said hours after Travis baptized her into the church, he then brought her home, stripped her out of her white spiritual garments, and then pushed her into having anal sex. Listen to what Jodi told the jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: We were kissing. And I was in my church clothes, he was in his church clothes. The kissing got more passionate and more intense and then he spun me around. He bent me over his bed. He began to have anal sex with me.

KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you say anything? Did you tell him no?

ARIAS: No.

NURMI: Was it pleasurable for you physically?

ARIAS: At that time, it was painful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, look at that victim. That time it was painful. Look at this, the photo of Jodi`s baptism.

I`ve got to go out to Jose Miguel. You`re a reporter, KPHO. You covered this. We were standing side by side in the hot Phoenix sun. You hear her reeking of victimization right there, but all the evidence shows that she was more sexually experienced, she was the one who even taught him about sexual lubricant. He had no idea what that -- that was until he met her.

JOSE MIGUEL, REPORTER, KPHO: Yes, I think it`s pretty safe to say that Jodi is really a chameleon. She will blend into whatever environment she needs to blend into in order for her to get her way. That`s what she did here with Travis Alexander.

She knew that he came from a much more innocent background than she ever did. So that`s why she went ahead and decided she would convert to his -- to his religion. She would go ahead and please him in any way, shape or form with that hope that she would potentially become his wife. And I feel that if -- the fact that she was not going to be his wife is what eventually led to what took place with Travis Alexander.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She needed a knight in shining armor to rescue her from her completely messed-up life. She was in desperate financial straits. She`d lost her home. She had nowhere to live, and she thought, that five-bedroom house, that guy, he`s good-looking. He`s got a great career. I`m going to get a home, a family, social status, children, a husband. And when he said, "I don`t think so," she became rageful.

We`re just getting started. On the other side, we`re going to talk strategy for Monday`s huge hearing, where Jodi Arias will be in court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had threatened people, both Travis and the girlfriend at the time. She had followed us on the first date that we went on. She sounded dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: How is it that it just happens you can`t even remember what you just said?

ARIAS: I think I`m more focused on your posture and your tone and anger, so it`s hard to process the question.

MARTINEZ: So the answer is it`s, again, the prosecutor`s fault because you perceive him to be angry? Right?

ARIAS: It`s not your fault.

MARTINEZ: Is someone asking whose fault it is?

ARIAS: You did.

MARTINEZ: Now, you seem to be pointing at the prosecutor, right? So you believe the reason that you can`t be effective on the witness stand is because somebody is asking you questions in a way you don`t like?

ARIAS: I think that was a compound question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s going to happen when prosecutor Martinez and Jodi go head to head again in round two of the retrial? We`re going to hear a lot Monday. It`s a big hearing.

Now, we all know Jodi did a slew of media interviews -- it was so weird -- right after her guilty verdict. And she had some choice words about the 12 men and women who convicted her. Listen to this from ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I feel -- I feel a little betrayed by them. I don`t dislike them. I just was really hoping that they would see things for what they are, and I don`t feel that they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Will these interviews come back to haunt her? Will prosecutor Juan Martinez play these interviews for the new jury in open court?

We`ve got two prosecution, two defense and a judge. I`m going to start with, well, Anahita Sedaghatfar.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, first I want to commend you, as well, for writing your book.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

SEDAGHATFAR: I had a chance to read some of it today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re not required to say that.

SEDAGHATFAR: You have really provided some excellent new information that really sort of explains who Jodi Arias really is and why she did what she did. And I think really you`re making us talk about bigger issues with respect to the criminal justice system, such as why these jurors didn`t get to see a lot of this evidence. And the rules of evidence and things like that. So I want to really commend you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

SEDAGHATFAR: In terms of the sentencing phase -- you`re welcome -- I think what the defense needs to do at this point is really embrace the fact that Jodi Arias is crazy, that she`s not playing with a full deck of cards.

I think one of the things that they failed to do during the initial case is embrace the fact that Jodi has borderline personality disorder. I think they should have embraced Dr. DeMarte`s diagnosis instead of trying to fight it. Now I`m not saying that would have given an acquittal in this case, but it might have gotten her a murder two or manslaughter conviction. So I think moving forward, they should focus...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

SEDAGHATFAR: ... on that. They should show these tapes. They should show that she`s going on a media tour when those jurors are deciding whether she lives or dies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does anybody disagree?

SEDAGHATFAR: This is not a normal person. That`s a mitigating factor, Jane.

SEIDLIN: I disagree.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, Judge Seidlin.

SEIDLIN: Well, we know, Jane, and we`ve worked together enough, the trial is not the search for the truth. A trial...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It should be.

SEIDLIN: It should be. And everything should be open. But that`s not the reality of a trial. A trial has a very limitated [SIC] -- a very limited position. You have to bring in stuff that`s relevant. And stuff that isn`t relevant is irrelevant.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Frankly -- frankly, Jane, I mean, your book, this book, Juan Martinez should take this home this weekend in preparation for Monday. Because we`re just lawyers; you`re a reporter. I mean, you have found things that they could potentially use.

And we could sit here and debate whether or not those things would be allowed in, but they weren`t -- they weren`t known about. They just weren`t known. You, Jane, uncovered some facts, some truth, and they could help put this woman, this crazy, crazy woman, to death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And who knows? They may have already known all those facts, but for some reason, it didn`t get in front of the jury. Possibly because they were just too prejudicial.

We`re going to have more on the other side. We`re just starting our debate. What is the next phase of this trial going to look like? This mini retrial. Is it going to be a massive retrial? Is Jodi Arias going to take the stand again? We`re going to debate it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you a religious person?

ARIAS: I`m not deeply religious at this point. I still consider myself spiritual.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe in heaven and hell?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY OF JODI ARIAS: Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: You make me so horny. I seriously think about having sex with you every day.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: I thought you said the relationship with Mr. Alexander was very stressful.

ARIAS: Some of the sex wasn`t.

There`s also a bit of morbid curiosity I think.

I was just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and you`re like (EXPLETIVE DELETED). At the same time I was (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it was so hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Phase two about to begin. We`ll know Monday when the penalty phase retrial will occur. Jodi, one of the most hated women in America, people chanted and cheered after a jury ruled that she was guilty of murdering Mormon motivational speaker, Travis Alexander.

Straight out to "The Lion`s Den" and in our "Lion`s Den" tonight two of Travis Alexander`s dear friends -- Sean Alexander and Dave Hall. Dave and Sean, you know this case like no other because you were there and you are so close to the victim in this case. You could speak for him because he can`t speak anymore for himself.

Dave, what do you think this life or death retrial is going to look like? Because a lot of people say this mini trial is going to turn into a maxi trial.

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, hopefully it`s swift and very, very quick. Hopefully we have a common sense jury that just sees the truth for what it is and gives Jodi the punishment that she ultimately deserves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But do you really think that`s going to happen? I have to go down to Wendy Murphy because I have a feeling that if Jodi can take the stand, the last time she spent 18 days on the witness stand, you get her on there, she`s not going to get off.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: The guys on the jury might get off - - oops, sorry. She`s going to spend as much time in front of that jury as she can, talking about anything except the only thing that matters. We will hear about anal sex, we`ll hear about oral sex, we will hear about which direction she bent.

And, oh by the way, Jane -- I can`t suck up to you because I haven`t read your book -- I think Jodi will love your book, because all her sadistic sex stuff is there. There`s a lot of nasty in them there pages and she, I`m sure, loves that. She hates the part where you point out how guilty she is and how terrific the victim was.

But look, I think she`s going to do exactly what won her the jury`s verdict that spared her life the first time. She`s going to use whatever sexual erotic language and things she can use in that courtroom. And she`s going to put guys on the jury and she`s going to put her tight little shirt on -- remember when she was doing her thing with the boys, right -- and she`s going to talk about anal and oral. And she`s going to wink and blink at them --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anahita, it didn`t work the last time.

MURPHY: -- I`m very worried.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well it did in a sense that it was a hung jury.

MURPHY: -- I`m very worried that the jury won`t rise above it.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think, Wendy -- I think Wendy, you are not giving the jurors enough credit here.

MURPHY: Damn straight I`m not.

SEDAGHATFAR: I mean they didn`t put her to death because they were sexually aroused by Jodi Arias? I mean these are --

(CROSSTALK)

MURPHY: Yes, that`s true. Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: I think you`re doing a big disservice to the jurors. And will Jodi take the stand?

MURPHY: I don`t care what you think.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, she will take the stand. She`s on trial for her life. Of course she`s going to take the stand. And you know what, Jane? She should take the stand because we saw this already in the initial phase of the trial. I said this all along -- a lot of people disagreed with me that her taking the stand humanizes her. Whether those jurors like her or not --

MURPHY: All right.

SEDAGHATFAR: -- you can see they didn`t like her --

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: -- they thought she was a liar.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Ok. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Listen, I want to go to Sean Alexander, Travis Alexander`s former roommate and a dear friend of the victim. I mean look, it`s starting all over again. On Monday, we`re going to find out, and it`s expected, I don`t know, the defense wants next year, but it could be the fall, it could be very soon.

And how is -- as a dear friend of Travis, who loved Travis, how does that affect you emotionally? The idea that the family is going to have to go through all of this again and that all of this stuff is going to be dredged up over all again?

SEAN ALEXANDER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, that`s the hardest part about the whole thing, of course, is the fact that they all have to pick up their lives and come out here and listen and watch and see her again. I mean, it seemed like forever the first time. Now we have to go back and relive it, redo it. Listen to her get up there and talk all over again.

It`s heart wrenching. It`s painful to watch them in the courtroom and seeing them have to go through this. And like Dave said. You just want it to go fast. You just want it to be done. You know, life, death, whatever it ends up being -- we just want it to be over.

She`s already guilty, so great. We`ve all forgiven and moved on and that kind of thing but now we have to go through this again. It`s just heart-wrenching.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go out to the phone lines -- a very patient Lynn in Florida. Lynn thanks for your patience -- your question or thought?

LYNN, FLORIDA (via telephone): Well, what will happen if this next jury is also a hung jury?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, my understanding is that then it goes back to the judge, and she, Judge Sherry Stephens can decide whether Jodi will spend natural life in prison or life with the possibility of getting out after 25 years.

Wow. What will that be like? Dave Hall, part of the dilemma is that they`re going to have to get this new -- first, they`re going to have to find a new jury that has not formed strong opinions about this case. And almost everybody in America has an opinion about this case. And then they`re going to have to bring this new jury up to speed.

And how do you do that with a trial that went January, February, March, April, May? I`m wondering if you think -- are you in fear that there could be another hung jury?

HALL: Absolutely. You know, it kills me to think that they have to go through all this again. And to think that that jury would have just maybe deliberated just one or two more days we could have avoided all of this. It just amazes me that that jury couldn`t have done a third and final phase quickly and have this all behind us at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what`s so ironic is that while they`re deliberating her life and death, she`s doing interviews saying says she feels betrayed by them. And they end up sort of giving her a pass by hanging. I understand it was 8-4 the death penalty -- four against.

My gosh, let`s go back to our legal panel. Jordan Rose, you`re there in Arizona. Is there a sense, and you`re very close with everybody connected to this case, is there a sense of like impending doom like, "Oh my gosh, this is going to be a run away freight train. We`re getting on this train and we don`t know where it`s going to lead us?"

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I think there`s a sense, at least from what I can, you know, listen to in terms of lawyers around town talking about it, that this thing ended oddly. And it didn`t -- the resolution was not complete. People here are hanging onto the idea that we could have justice finally. And there are very few people -- in fact, I have not talked to anyone who says "Oh yes, the resolution of the court was the correct resolution."

In fact, everyone that I speak with and everyone in the news media here locally says we want this woman put to death as the family must also. And that they`ve asked our county attorneys to keep this case alive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well on the other side of the break, we`ll talk about whether the tenor of the public, the public mood might change as this becomes strictly an argument about life or death by lethal injection.

Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The thing that`s so diabolical about Jodi Arias, and this is part of having borderline personality disorder, it`s never her fault. So now we`re going into the retrial on the penalty phase, where a new jury will decide whether she lives or dies.

And again, she`s tweeting, blaming the prosecutor. "Oh sorry, taxpayers. We`re going to have to spend more of your money." She can never accept responsibility. And that is a fundamental commonality with all people who suffer from borderline personality disorder. It`s them against the world. Everything they do is a zero-sum game. They can never accept their part in anything.

And that`s Jodi Arias to a tee. She`s the victim even though she slit his throat, even though she stabbed him in the chest, even though she shot him in the head. She`s the victim and she got on the witness stand and was doing this Oscar-winning performance, trying to convince these jurors that she`s the victim. They didn`t buy it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: Did you enjoy having sex with Travis?

ARIAS: For the most part, yes I did, very much.

He cared about my pleasure, as well.

If there were things I was uncomfortable with -- having sex on the hood of a car. "Little Red Riding Hood" fantasy -- that it would involve sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s talk strategy for the upcoming retrial, the life and death phase to determine whether she lives or dies by lethal injection. The big hearing is this coming Monday. We`re going to see Jodi in court.

In closing arguments, Jodi`s defense attorney, Kirk Nurmi made a statement that made everybody scratch their head and go, "What the heck?" Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY OF JODI ARIAS: It`s not even about whether or not you like Jodi Arias. Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve heard about some cases where attorneys throw the game, essentially, because then they might be able to win on appeal. I`m not saying that`s what Jodi`s attorneys plan to do. I have no way of knowing that.

But straight out to "The Lion`s Den" -- Wendy Murphy, you have a theory about a possible new defense strategy. I stress, it`s just a theory. Go ahead.

MURPHY: Yes, and it`s the theory other lawyers have tried so why wouldn`t they know about and death penalty lawyers, defense lawyers in particular, teach each other to do it. So it makes sense in this case and it`s really very simple. It`s called tactical ineffective assistance of counsel.

During the death penalty phase defense attorneys intentionally do not put on effective mitigation evidence. In some cases they put on none. And then by the time the case winds its way into an appellate posture -- assuming the jury votes for death, the Ninth Circuit Court of appeals which would cover -- ultimately cover this case should it reach that point -- has a very established worst in the country, in my opinion, reputation and habit of overturning death penalty verdicts on the grounds that the lawyers were ineffective for not putting on evidence of mitigation.

In other words, not calling Jodi`s mother and family to the stand -- it`s unethical but it happens a lot. And the Ninth Circuit allows and it`s an embarrassment.

SEDAGHATFAR: Jane --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Anahita -- go.

SEDAGHATFAR: Jane, are we forgetting the fact that these attorneys have spent five years of their lives trying to save Jodi Arias` life? And she basically threw them under the bus repeatedly, didn`t follow their instruction, was speaking to the media when the jurors were deliberating whether or not she`s going to die, telling the reporters --

MURPHY: As if that wasn`t strategic. How naive are you? That was planned. That was obviously planned to give the defense a reason to go to the judge and file a motion --

SEDAGHATFAR: And you know this how?

(CROSSTALK)

CEVALLOS: All right, all right, everybody, knock it off. Knock it off. That`s enough. Listen, here`s the deal.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Basta, basta, basta. Let me bring in -- ok, go ahead.

CEVALLOS: Quiet down, everyone. Everybody`s talking.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSE: Wendy is absolutely right that the Ninth Circuit assistance and seems to rule on the side of the criminal a lot of the time. But in this case, they tried. They spent a ton of money. They tried to put witnesses up. I think they are going to have a very hard time saying that they absolutely were ineffective. Were they effective in getting what they wanted? No, I think she`ll go to death. But being ineffective and being ineffective at Ninth Circuit`s terms is totally different. And I don`t think that`s going to happen here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kinsey has been very polite and quiet.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me just ask you this question. I mean if she said "Oh, my attorneys told me I had no mitigating evidence, then they presented eight mitigators, but basically it was lukewarm. It was like I didn`t have a criminal history, my mother abused me. I mean we don`t know that that`s true. I think it`s a lie.

MURPHY: It was ineffective.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. Kinsey, what do you see is going to happen in this next retrial? I mean who are they going to get to come up and defend Jodi? They couldn`t get anybody the last time.

KINSEY SCHOFIELD, BLOGGER: I honestly don`t think they`re going to find anybody that`s going to be able to defend Jodi. Everybody knows that Jodi is a creep. And what my concern is that she`s going to get on the stand and slaughter Travis Alexander for a third time, claiming he`s a pedophile, claiming that he raped her multiple times. This man is a victim. He was the victim. He was a good -- you know, he was a good, normal guy. I date these guys all the time.

CEVALLOS: You do?

SCHOFIELD: And my biggest concern is that she`s going to get up there and lie again.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Danny Cevallos -- I can see your furrowed brow, you want to get in on this. Come on, jump in.

CEVALLOS: Oh, thank you. Listen, when you dissect what Kirk Nurmi said in one throwaway line in his closing and then make the argument that he`s somehow setting up some sort of grand ineffective assistance of council claim? Yes, it`s true. The Ninth Circuit is a controversial circuit. But the bottom line is attorneys are in there to win. We`re not in there to throw cases.

MURPHY: Wrong, wrong.

CEVALLOS: The idea that one line or one part --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let him finish. Let him finish.

CEVALLOS: -- who is saying "wrong". Is that Wendy?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

MURPHY: I`m just saying you know this is a tried and true strategy. Don`t act like it never happens. There are 20 years of cases --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let him speak. Please ladies, let him speak.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let him speak. I need my gavel back. Let him speak. Danny?

(CROSSTALK)

CEVALLOS: Yes, can we get a gavel?

SEDAGHATFAR: Sorry.

CEVALLOS: The bottom line is, attorneys are in it to win it. Kirk Nurmi`s statement there, when he said some days I don`t like Jodi Arias, that`s pretty common that statement. It sort of humanizes the defense attorney and makes it seem like he`s not pie in sky.

But the bottom line is when it comes to sentencing, she`s going humanize herself. That`s the job she did last time. Yes, of course, she makes that comment about being disappointed in the jury, but even that jury didn`t give her the death penalty. So how likely is it a new jury who didn`t have to sit through and get the opportunity to be frustrated, how likely is it that they will give her the death penalty. It seems like if you`re just playing the odds, they`re even slimmer than they were before.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, we`re going to ask our panel. What do you think is going to happen? Life or death?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE MIGUEL, REPORTER, KPHO: I think we`re going to see the same old Jodi on the stand. I think she loves the attention. We`ve all seen her really go after that media spotlight. This is her opportunity to yet again be center stage for the world. Now, she`s got a little bit more time to work on possibly the stories that worked and what didn`t work against her and use it again to her advantage and hopefully spare her life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Buttercup -- you are a buttercup. Molly -- you make me smiley. That`s not quite a rhyme, but it`s going to have to do. Barney and Zoe, obviously, you`ve taken control of the furniture in the house, as you should. And Kashi -- she says, "I`m just scrunchy".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: So you weren`t going to put up with that either, were you?

ARIAS: Put up with that?

MARTINEZ: Well, what is it that we`re talking about here?

ARIAS: Which part?

MARTINEZ: Were you going to put up with what we just talked about? Are you having problems understanding again what`s going on?

ARIAS: Sometimes, because you go in circles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We all remember her 18 excruciating days on the stands. Tonight with me two dear friends of victim, Travis Alexander -- Dave Hall, what does prosecutor Juan Martinez have to do this time, given that the last jury hung on the penalty phase, to push him over the edge?

HALL: Well, I think that this time, he needs to dehumanize her and show the jury the true evil side of Jodi Arias. I think she spent so much time on the stand that she actually did humanize herself to some of the jurors where they just felt like maybe she had some redeeming qualities that her life was worth saving. But there`s a special place in hell reserved for Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say that I think that it`s going to be fascinating because we really don`t know what is going to happen. I mean, we really don`t know. Is it going to be two months? Four? We`ll have to see.

Stay right there. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So when it comes to Jodi Arias, we`re going to have to see what happens on Monday. We`ll be all over it.

Nancy Grace is up next.

END