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Kidnapped Teen Explains

Aired August 22, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Hannah Anderson in her own words. The kidnapped teen speaks for the first time since her abduction, about her toughness, the tragic death of her mother and brother, and her truth about the man who took her.

Plus, did these teens kill for the thrill? Authorities say the boys told them they shot a young man in cold blood because they were bored. I say there`s much more to this. Ms. Ali and the behavior bureau are here to sound off.

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Welcome.

My co-host is Jenny Hutt, attorney and Sirius XM radio host.

Good evening.

Hannah Anderson, kidnapped teen, rescued last week, has spoken for the first time about the ordeal. It`s created a lot of conflict, let`s say. Take a look at this tape.


PINSKY: Hannah has granted her first interview to NBC News.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, Hannah Anderson is trying to take control of what she says are misconceptions about her story.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jim DiMaggio, more like daddy and lover to Hannah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s her 15 minutes. It`s her 15 minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I disagree. And she`s giving these interviews on social media?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Did you want to go with DiMaggio?" She replied, "No, not at all." "Why didn`t you run?" "He would have killed me."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s going to a fund-raiser in short shorts and glasses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is appropriate for the Maury Povich show.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hannah became involved with DiMaggio in a consensual relationship after he seduced her.

JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: She lacked the capacity to consent. She was abused.

PINSKY: Hopefully, she`ll be able to tell us in a way that`s truthful and makes sense to us.


PINSKY: Yes, that was us last night.

Now, Hannah wasted no time clarifying the 13 phone contacts between Uncle Jim DiMaggio and herself on the day he allegedly abducted her.

Here now is what, Crystal, listen carefully, she`s on my panel, here`s what she told NBC News. Take a look.


HANNAH ANDERSON, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: The phone calls weren`t phone calls, they were texts because he was picking me up from cheer camp, and he didn`t know the address or what, like where I was. So I had to tell him the address and tell him that I was going to be in the gym and not in front of the school, just so he knew where to come get me.


PINSKY: Joining us, Crystal Wright from, HLN`s Lynn Berry, attorney Anahita Sedaghatfar, and Brian Copeland, talk show host at KGO Radio in San Francisco, author "Not a Genuine Black Man."

All right. Crystal, you were the most suspect of Hanna`s relationship with DiMaggio. Reaction to the clarification.

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: I`m not buying it. I`m troubled by two things. First, she was awfully composed for a 16-year-old that was kidnapped. She claimed that she wasn`t aware of what DiMaggio was doing with her. She had no idea about the Amber Alert. Thirteen texts to tell somebody where to pick you up?

And then what was really most troubling to me is when she was asked about these letters she wrote to Uncle Jim because she was having problems with her mother. Normally, when a child is having problems with one or the other parent, they go to the grandparents, they go to a maternal figure. They usually don`t go to a 40-year-old man that`s not a blood relative.

And she also said --

PINSKY: All right. Brian?

WRIGHT: Wait, wait. She said, real quick, to the reporter, she said -- they weren`t bad letters. I`ve never -- kids would never say that unless they were bad letters. It`s just something that`s --

BRIAN COPELAND, KGO RADIO: That`s not -- I don`t think that`s true. As a father of -- having raised three teenagers, I can tell you, number one, they will go to other adults when they`re having problems with you. They`re not going to go to grandparents, because grandparents are too close. They will go to other adults sometimes to get input and try to understand what their parents are thinking.

But something else I wanted to go back to, and that`s the phone calls. Every report that I have read and seen said there were 13 phone calls between DiMaggio and between Hannah. Hannah says they were texts. I thought that was kind of odd.

So, I called my cell phone carrier and I asked, you know, do cell phone calls, at least with this carrier, do they show up on the bill as being texts or phone calls? They said they show up as texts. There`s no way you can confuse the two.

Now, I don`t know if that`s the same for all cell phone carriers or just mine.

WRIGHT: That`s a good point.

PINSKY: That is highly suspect.

HUTT: What are they doing?

LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: I think that Hannah learned a difficult lesson in all of this. She was asked specifically what her take is on the criticism, and she said, "People are cruel. And you have to know yourself."

And I think she learned a difficult lesson about life. People are mean and people are going to criticize her. And whether or not, and we can go on and we can exchange one-liners and we can all have our opinion about whether or not we think she had a sexual relationship with her Uncle Jim. The fact is there was a 16-year-old girl who just turned 16 that was forced into a very adult situation, having to face the media in the way that she has --

WRIGHT: That`s right.


WRIGHT: Wait, wait a minute. That`s exactly --


WRIGHT: But that`s exactly --

PINSKY: Anahita first.

WRIGHT: She wasn`t forced into it. Where`s her father? That`s what I`m saying. It`s her father --

SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, I think that begs the question.

PINSKY: What`s the question, Anahita?

COPELAND: Here`s the thing is --

SEDAGHATFAR: She is opening herself up to criticism. And really, when I watched a little bit of that interview today, Dr. Drew, the first thing that ran through my mind was, wow, she is such a little girl. I mean, hearing her talk, watching her mannerisms, because all we`d seen before are those pictures. But then hearing her talk today, it really hit home for me.

So, you know, I`m not one to say that anyone should tell another person how to cope. She`s 16 years old. She`s going to go on Twitter. She`s going to go on social media.

COPELAND: However --

SEDAGHATFAR: The TV interviews?


SEDAGHATFAR: I mean, I think you`re in the best position to answer whether or not that`s healthy for her to go on TV after all she`s been through. I think she needs professional help. I think that should be the priority.

So, maybe you can answer that --


COPELAND: That`s odd. That`s odd to me too.

I mean, look at Ariel Castro`s victims --

HUTT: Dr. Drew, I have a question for you.


HUTT: Isn`t it possible that after all the stuff she`s been through, the really, really awful, traumatic stuff she`s been through, being on a television show isn`t as jarring for her at this point?

PINSKY: It`s intense. To my eye, you and I, Jenny, are going to have a behavior bureau later. We`re going to get into that in great detail. What I did see is exactly what Anahita is saying, which is a kid, a child who is numb which is what she should be right now. She should be like that.

Now, she also talked to NBC News about her controversial decision to break her silence via social media, take a look at this.


ANDERSON: I connected to them through Facebook and Instagram. It just helps me grieve like post pictures. To show how I`m feeling. And I`m a teenager, I`m going to go on it.


PINSKY: Brian, should we be criticizing a 16-year-old if that`s how she grieves this we`re not -- it`s a different age.

COPELAND: No, no. I don`t think so at all as far as social media is concerned. You`re right, that`s what teenagers do, use social media to lay out every aspect, every nook and cranny of their lives. But the thing, given the interview to NBC, I just found that to be odd.

For example, you look at Ariel Castro`s victims. They haven`t sat down with Matt Lauer, they haven`t sat down with Katie Couric.

WRIGHT: Thank you, Brian.


COPELAND: Traumatic situations in different way, so I understand that.

BERRY: I mean, they were held captive, chained to a wall, and raped and beaten for ten years, I would imagine that process is different. And Hannah said herself, one of the reasons she wanted to do this was specifically to thank the people who helped find her and the process for her to do that is through the media.

WRIGHT: Yes, but --

PINSKY: Crystal, you`re becoming apoplectic when we say it`s OK for a teen to use social media. Why do you object to that so strongly?

WRIGHT: I object because, again, what none of you are talking about, and, Brian, I agree with some of what Brian has said --

COPELAND: That scares me.

WRIGHT: -- nobody`s talking about the role of her father. Why is her father letting her -- you know, somebody called parenting. You guys are always -- you`re always reminding me I`m not --

HUTT: You`re right. You`re right, Crystal.


COPELAND: There`s no way I would let my daughter do that.

WRIGHT: Where`s the parenting involvement in saying, Hannah, you`re not going on the "Today" show, you`re not doing a "People" interview. And because Hannah said she`s going to bury her mother and brother this weekend. Why is she exposing herself? Where is her father? Pete`s sakes.

PINSKY: Anahita, that seems to be your issue too, Anahita?

HUTT: Right, Crystal.

PINSKY: I want to get her opinion.

SEDAGHATFAR: I agree. I totally agree, like I said before, Dr. Drew. She`s a teenager. Teenagers go on Twitter. They go on social media.

That was her way of trying to get I guess her life back to normal. But where are the adults? Where`s her father?

PINSKY: Hold on. Brian, let me talk to you, dad to dad here. We both raised teenagers.

Let`s say the teen had been through something terrible, and say, dad, I really want to talk to my friends on whatever media. It would feel so better. You`d cave to that very fast. What if she said, look, I just want to do these interviews, I want to let people know I`m here, I`m strong, in memory of mom and Ethan, I want to do this? You know, listen, you`re going to cave to a kid that`s been through something like that.


PINSKY: I bet you do.

COPELAND: No. You know what, there`s no way on God`s green earth that I would let my 16-year-old daughter, and I raised a 16-year-old daughter, to go on national television and give interviews after an experience like this. Social media? Yes, sure.

But sitting down in front of cameras on national television, being interviewed, especially since there is a skepticism, some skepticism about what happened, in some cases being grilled, there`s no way. There`s absolutely no way.

PINSKY: All right. OK. I certainly OK. Excellent, I`m glad to know that you could set that boundary. I think it would be tough when a kid has been through something awful and they said they`d feel better if they did something. However, I agree 100 percent that it`s a bad choice. That it`s a bad choice.

If I could, if I could see that and understood that, I would hope like you I could set that boundary as well.

Thank you, panel.

Next up, more of Hannah`s first interview and the behavior bureau.

And later, a young man stalked, shot, and killed because, allegedly, the murderers were bored.

Back after this.


PINSKY: It is time for the behavior bureau.

Welcome back.

My co-host Jenny Hutt.

Jenny, how do you feel about that conversation we just had?

HUTT: I mean, I`m going crazy, Dr. Drew. And here`s why. Of course, there`s something wrong with the way the family has been constructed and with the dad`s behavior.

He allowed Jim in the family in the first place. He brought him in. It was intimate. And then, Jim was a pedophile, disgusting, like we think and know. And so, now, all of a sudden, he`s going to do the right thing?

PINSKY: I can feel it.

Joining us: conservative -- Crystal Wright from; psychologist Wendy Walsh, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox"; Samantha Schacher, social commentator and host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network. And welcoming back, human lie detector Janine Driver, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me."

Janine, thank you for putting time aside for us today. I know you have a newborn out there. So, you look great.

Now, Hannah Anderson gave her first interview to NBC`s "Today" show where she talked about her mother and brother, I want you to watch this.


ANDERSON: And the letters were from like a year ago when me and my mom weren`t getting along very well, me and him were talk about how to deal with it. I`d tell him how I felt about it. And he helped me through it. They weren`t anything bad. They were just to help me through tough times.


PINSKY: Now, Janine, I don`t want to be too tough on Hannah, but I thought you might think there was a bit of odd body language stuff in that interview.

JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: Yes, you`re smart. You can tell we`ve been considering together, Dr. Drew. Because you noticed her saying no with her head as she`s giving this definitive answer. That`s what we call a hot spot. What it means is, Dr. Drew, there`s more to the story here.

Unfortunately, I have a million questions. Why was he picking her up after school? What was the plan? Was she suspicious when they first went to the nature, to the woods? So, all we know at this point, that shaking her head no when she`s saying, this is what happened. She shakes her head no. Is certainly what we call a hot spot?

PINSKY: And when she mentions her mother, she has a little odd facial expression, does she not?

DRIVER: Disgust. Right. When she talks about -- he was my confidant, when I had trouble with my mother, he would give advice. She does this little teeny micro expression of disgust.

When we do disgust, what happens, our eyes get small, because we don`t want to see what we`re seeing. Our nose closes to close off something that`s disgusting. When we notice that behavior, this micro expression, it means disgust. There was turmoil without a doubt between her and her mother.

PINSKY: Wendy, not so unusual for a 16-year-old girl to have hard feelings about a mom. It`s also not unusual for a 16-year-old to feel numb after a horrible experience like this, wouldn`t you agree?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I bet she has all kinds of anger towards her mother right now that she`s probably not completely aware of. I mean, her mother did not protect her from this man. It was the mother`s responsibility.

Her mother has, in an emotional way, abandoned her, she`s not there anymore. So I think -- on top of it, she was having regular teen stuff with the mother.

So I`m sure she`s holding a lot of confusing conflicting feelings right now -- grief and loss and anger at the object.

PINSKY: Early in the investigation, I`m talking about early on, police discover some letters that Hannah sent to DiMaggio. And I want to look at how she explained them.

Crystal, I go to you, to see if you accept this explanation -- how she explained those letters on the "Today" show. Take a look.


ANDERSON: He had a really big heart. And -- she was strong-hearted and very tough. She knew how to handle things.


PINSKY: All right. Crystal, obviously that was the wrong tape. Describing her feelings about losing her little brother. A lot of heavier feelings about that.

But I was talking about those letters you have a hard time tossing aside.

WRIGHT: Well, what`s -- I think two things. When I was 16 and I was having conflict with my mother and a teenager, every girl has that problem as we try to become individuals. And I would talk to friends of a family that were women that weren`t necessarily blood relatives. I would talk through things.

I never wanted to turn to any of my father`s friends. You know, he didn`t have single male friends.

So, the second thing is, remember, she said Jim was creepy. She told one of her good friends, he was creepy. But then don`t you find this a little -- there`s a little weirdness here, Janine? OK, she was creepy, then you`re writing him letters for advice how to get along with your mother?

Something is not jiving here. And I`m not -- I know that Hannah is a victim, OK? She was pursued and seduced by this sick, sick man named Jim DiMaggio. But somewhere along the line, little Hannah got confused.

She should be seeing a therapist. She should not be going on --

PINSKY: Oh, I`m sure she will.

WRIGHT: What I`m saying is that`s a conflict. What`s going on? He was creepy but you`re sending him letters? Not buying it.

PINSKY: I`m going to take a break.

Next up, more of Hannah Anderson`s interview. Her grandfather is here with reaction to the interviews.

And later, everyone has something to say about the cold-blooded killing of a college basketball player, including our own Ms. Ali. She`ll be back after the break.



BRETT ANDERSON, HANNAH`S FATHER: As for my daughter, the healing process will be slow. She has been through a tremendous, horrific ordeal. I`m very proud of her and I love her very much. Now, it`s time for us to grieve and move on to the healing process. I respectably ask you to give me, all of our family and our friends the respect and time to allow this to happen.


PINSKY: Back with the behavior bureau and my co-host Jenny Hutt.

Sam, you didn`t get a chance to ring in on that last panel. I wonder if you had a comment.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I`m just -- I`m a little pissed off actually. I feel like there`s no compassion out of your voice, Crystal, when you talk about Hannah Anderson.

I know that you say that, listen, she`s a victim, and, of course, she is. But I think we need to be reminded that even the San Diego police department after reviewing all the evidence, the letters, the text messages, phone calls, that they say with all adamancy that she is a victim beginning to end. I think we need to have a little more compassion for someone that lost their mother, their brother, saw their Uncle Jim being shot, was kidnapped by their Uncle Jim.

PINSKY: Crystal?

DRIVER: Dr. Drew --

WRIGHT: Look, I have compassion for Hannah. What I don`t have compassion for, I think there`s more to the story and I think, unlike everybody else, I`m willing to go there and point out inconsistencies in her story. That doesn`t mean I don`t think she`s a victim.

Her father, the clip we just saw, her father said, oh, let me -- I want to stay -- let us grieve. Then he`s pushing his daughter into the limelight. That`s --


PINSKY: We don`t know if he`s pushing or caving.

But, listen, I`ve got her grandfather, hang on, I`ve got her grandfather on the line.

Chris, thank you for joining us again. I wonder what your reaction is to Hannah`s interviews and is it something that she has just wanted to do that dad couldn`t say no to? Tell us what`s going on.

CHRIS, HANNAH`S GRANDFATHER (via telephone): I`m sure it is and I`m sure she wanted to do it straight. Maybe for people like this Crystal that seems to just want to tear her apart and make something out of nothing, you know, they need to know Hannah is very strong. She`s dealing with this. And she doesn`t need the negativity from people like Crystal and all these other people that are --

PINSKY: Chris, what is your -- hang on, Crystal. What is your take on the interview?

CHRIS: Well, I think her interview was good. I mean, she`s trying to be you know, brave. She`s trying to be strong. But as you can see, she`s very vulnerable, because she broke down when she was talking about her brother. Maybe --

PINSKY: My suspicion, that`s normal, though. That`s completely normal. My suspicion is Hannah`s kind of numb right now. Is that accurate?

CHRIS: Yes, yes. I`m sure, just like me, just like everybody in the family. We`re still in shock. And it hasn`t hit us totally yet. And I`m sure it won`t until the funeral.

PINSKY: That is this weekend.

Chris, thank you for joining us, I do appreciate it. You always shed some nice light on this.

Janine, go ahead.

DRIVER: You know, I think the grandfather hits the nail on the head here. There was a case that happened a couple of years ago, Dr. Drew, Tiffany Hartley. Her husband, David Hartley, was murdered on a lake that bordered Mexico and the United States.

And everyone slammed Tiffany Hartley. They thought she was involved, they didn`t believe her, Mexico didn`t even believe her. I went on television, the people that work with me, other experts, they went on TV, "NANCY GRACE", and we said we believed Tiffany Hartley.

But she was calm on the interviews and people thought she was involved. Mexico later said, we`re sorry. The day after, one of my instructors at the body language institute went on "NANCY GRACE" and said, we believe Tiffany Hartley, believe her story,

PINSKY: But, listen, I get it. I get --

DRIVER: The investigator had his head chopped off. So, I think -- grief, we don`t deal with grief the same way, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That`s right.

WALSH: Very important point.

PINSKY: That`s right. Wendy, I hope you`ll back me up, we all deal with grief differently. This is a 16-year-old version of grief, not an adult version of grief. It`s also a 16-year-old today who`s been through a lot. She is numb.

And remember, Wendy, back me up on this, teenagers do not express emotion, they do not access emotions, express emotions, talk about emotions the way adults do. That part of the brain is not working yet. They act out emotions.

So, we may see some acting out that is more troublesome to us yet. That still would be normal.

Do you agree, Wendy?

WALSH: Yes. And they reach out through technology. This is very normal. I ask my 15-year-old daughter, would they do the same thing? She said, yes, then you`d know people care about you. They are so wired for technology. And you guys are saying, oh, she shouldn`t be online, she shouldn`t be on TV.

If you took a kid like that offline, that would be a bigger trauma for her. Because she`s a digital native who`s been online since the beginning.

PINSKY: All right. There you go. We`ll have to leave it there.

Next up, Ms. Ali is back with us. She`s going to weigh in on the senseless shooting and whether or not race was in fact a factor. And later, the behavior bureau is going to speak to the sister of the accused gunman. Don`t go away.


PINSKY: Back with co-host, Jenny Hutt. An Oklahoma college student from Australia went out for a jog. Police say three teenagers looking for a target because they were, quote, "bored." They wanted to kill, according to their words, "for the fun of it," Jenny.


PINSKY: And of course, the story can get even -- well, it gets even more disturbing. Take a look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, where`s your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was standing in the roadway and he fell over and as I come back, he just fell over in the ditch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say James Edwards Jr. and two of his friends, 17-year-old Michael Jones and 16-year-old Chancey Luna, were bored and looking to have fun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: he basically said, we were at the house, the young man ran by the house. Someone said, there`s our target, they got in the car, they followed him, and they shot him. "We were bored."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t have anything like this ever happen here. We`re a pretty boring town, really.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE Just three days before the shooting, Edwards posted that he and his friends were ready to take some lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to do everything that I can to ensure that we see these three thugs pay for what they did.


PINSKY: Back with us, Brian Copeland, Crystal Wright, and Lynn Berry, and joining the panel, Shahrazad Ali, author of "The Black Man Guide to understanding the Black Woman." Lynn, to you first, you`ve been following this case, tell us what`s the latest?

LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Well, the latest is these three boys are behind bars, two of them charged with first-degree murder, one of them charged with an accessory to murder. And that`s the one, Michael Jones, that told police that they did this out of boredom. He actually summoned them to his jail cell and sort of spilled the beans, so to speak.

But we`re learning more about these boys through social media. We saw James Edwards` Twitter feed. He was brandishing guns. He had piles of cash that he posted. Also, some of the tweets flat-out racist. I know you`re going to get into that. The sheriff`s department there said they are not going to charge them with a hate crime.

But we now know that this man, James Johnson, he`s the father of one of the boys, sort of, that they knew at school, he says this is gang- related. He said this is a gang initiation, that his son was targeted, that the three boys had approached his son and tried to recruit them into the gang, and he told his son that he needs to stay away from those boys and he actually received a death threat.

And we know that some schools in Duncan, Oklahoma were under some sort of bomb threat warning. And that they had to have certain precautions taken today because of some of those threats.

PINSKY: We`re going to tiptoe into this slowly. I`m going to go to Crystal first. Crystal, that was my first impression of this, that it had to be a gang initiation. I couldn`t understand it any other way.

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Well, of course not, Dr. Drew, because, you know, it`s not cool and kosher and PC for anybody in the public or the media to talk about Black males killing everybody in sight, right? And the Black crime and the fact that this is a hate crime and that Christopher Lane was White.

And we know from James Edwards` Twitter feed when he dropped the "N" word and said he hated White people, he was going to go out and kill, right? But we can`t talk about the real problem here, which is that Black males are engaging in a culture of violence, hip-hop and crime. And this - -


WRIGHT: Excuse me, let me finish. Excuse me, let me finish. And there`s no outrage like when Trayvon -- most of you were so --

HUTT: I`m outraged.


WRIGHT: What this says to America --


WRIGHT: When Black males kill each other and White people, but oh God, God forbid we talk about when --


WRIGHT: When George Zimmerman who`s now a White-Hispanic kills a Black man, oh, all hell breaks loose. I think it`s disgusting.

BRIAN COPELAND, TALK RADIO HOST, AUTHOR: Excuse me. Can I please set this woman straight?


PINSKY: Please, go ahead. Go ahead.

COPELAND: May I? OK, first of all, the reason there was such outrage in the Trayvon Martin case is because of the fact that the police did not arrest this man for 45 days after the shooting.

WRIGHT: But the case never should have been brought to trial.

COPELAND: -- national outrage.


COPELAND: In the Oklahoma case, these young men were arrested immediately. They were charged immediately. And guess what, they will go to jail for a long time as they deserve to. So, that`s what`s different about this and Trayvon. Number two, you like all of the other right- wingers who are trying to paint this and make this into a Black on White --

WRIGHT: This is a Black male problem.

COPELAND: Excuse me, madam. What you always do and what everybody in the last 24 hours has done who takes your point of view, is completely omit the fact that one of the three perpetrators is White.


PINSKY: We`ll have to turn their mics off for a second, because I never thought I`d say these words. But Miss Ali --


PINSKY: Could you put some sense into this?


PINSKY: Calm this down a little bit here


PINSKY: Can you help me out here?

SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Let me come in and bring peace.

WRIGHT: Yes, right.

PINSKY: Yes, I would love that. I would love that.


ALI: This is a very sad situation. And I did a lot of research on these boys, too. And let me tell you, Dr. Drew, these three idiots weren`t in no gang, they were just being --

WRIGHT: Thank you.

ALI: -- mentally dead, blind, deaf, and dumb to the knowledge of self or God. And probably from a home where they didn`t get any upbringing and they are bored. We keep hearing from our children that they`re bored. Half of them don`t go to school. The other half don`t do good when they do go. And so, we`re looking at just a long history of Black male youth, in particular.

And let me say this, Dr. Drew, I really -- this is very important, I think, to talking about the solution and the causes of this problem. Back in the 1950s when Black women had to feed their children, one of the first things that was required in order to get welfare is that there couldn`t be a man in the home. You had to get rid of your man, your children`s father, your husband, or whatever.

And then later on, of course, we had drugs in the community. And that feminized -- crack feminized drugs for women and that separated the mother from the child again. And then, of course, now, we have so many in jail and the children are literally raising themselves.

WRIGHT: I agree with you.

ALI: And so, what you see is an unintended consequence. Our children are savage on the streets --

PINSKY: Hold it right there.


PINSKY: Hold it right there.

ALI: And now, our children are wild.

PINSKY: Preach, Miss Ali, preach. And I never thought I`d say these words. The whole panel agrees with you. I`m stunned. We`ll live to see the day when there`s disagreement, that will come after the break. Please all stick around. The "Behavior Bureau" will join us. We will talk to the sister of one of the accused killers.

And later, the woman who saved the lives of hundreds of schoolchildren by calmly confronting an intruder who was intent on killing. Back after this.

VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," former NFL superstar, Aaron Hernandez, indicted today for murder.

RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: THAT`S right. So, the bold question for our in-studio jury, was Aaron Hernandez the shooter? Did he pull the trigger? That`s your question.

POLITAN: We`ll get a verdict by the end of program. Aaron Hernandez indicted, but did he actually shoot the victim? Find out tonight "After Dark."



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a young man. He`s just standing in the ditch and he`s got blood on him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he breathing? Is he conscious? Is he talking to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s not conscious. Is he still breathing? Barely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically said, we were at the house, the young man ran by the house, someone said, there`s our target, they got in the car, they followed him and they shot him. We were bored.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bored? They did it for fun or sport?



PINSKY: Back with "Behavior Bureau" and my co-host, Jenny Hutt. We`re discussing the murder of a young man, an Australian allegedly killed by teenagers who were bored. Joining us right now and the panel is Rachel Padilla, the sister of James Edwards Jr. He`s the 15-year-old charged with the premeditated murder of Chris Lane

Rachel, I have just one question for you. Thank you for joining us. Did you ever imagine your brother was capable of murder?

VOICE OF RACHEL PADILLA, SISTER OF JAMES EDWARDS: No, I did not have any idea at all. He was a very sweet young man. He`s never been violent towards anyone.

PINSKY: Well, certainly now, there`s question that that may no longer be true of him. Miss Ali --

ALI: I have a question for her, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Please, go right ahead.

ALI: May I ask her a question?

PINSKY: Please.

ALI: My question is, do you all live with your mother and father?

PADILLA: I am the older child. I live with my husband. My little brother has been raised by my dad at this time, which works, and he has a lot of health problems.

PINSKY: And my understanding, Miss Ali, is that his mother had died and that it`s a very mixed-up situation in that home. I have trouble getting the facts straight --

ALI: Does he attend school?

PADILLA: Yes, ma`am, he does.

ALI: What grade is he in?

PINSKY: She says yes.

ALI: What grade is he in?

PADILLA: He would be in the ninth grade this year.

ALI: Well, I ask that question because it`s very important. And I know that technology has dumbed many of our children down by allowing them to butcher the language and just use letters and science and numbers instead of words. But, does he know how to read, count, and spell?

PADILLA: Yes, ma`am, he does.

ALI: Well, not according to what he was tweeting and texting. He was not good at that. When is the last time he went to school?

PADILLA: He attended school last year.

PINSKY: So he`s been -- meaning ending before this summer?


PINSKY: Did he intend to enroll again this year?

PADILLA: Yes, sir, he did.

PINSKY: OK, all right. Go ahead.

BERRY: Dr. Drew, may I ask a question, please?

PINSKY: I think -- who was that, Crystal, you first?

WRIGHT: No. I was just going to ask if you knew the kind of awful things he was tweeting about on -- and posting on Facebook. It seemed to - - you know, I know he had a transformation and you said that he wasn`t always like that. Were you aware of his transformation and kind of involvement, you know, like violent thinking?

PADILLA: No, ma`am, I wasn`t. I was not aware of the things that he has posted on Facebook or have tweeted to other young people. And like I said before, I received this information. He was a very well-behaved child. He participated in sports. He wanted to join the military and go to college.


PINSKY: OK. Rachel, thank you for joining us. All right, panel, what are we going to do with this? Miss Ali, what do we do with this? How do we make sense of this kind of stuff happening?

ALI: Well, I think I need a little bit more time with her because she really not living in reality to not recognize that this child has been in trouble a long time. He didn`t wake up this morning and decide to be a killer. That`s just not the way it works.

PINSKY: I agree. I think -- even Crystal.

WRIGHT: I agree.

PINSKY: Even Crystal would agree with that.

WRIGHT: You know what, Shahrazad, I agree with almost 99 percent of everything you`ve said tonight, because you`re right, the breakdown of the Black family --

ALI: Well, this is wonderful.

WRIGHT: The breakdown of the Black family is the reason it started happening, the 1950s and the 1960s, where we started rewarding women for not having men in the home. And sadly, that`s where most of this Black violence is coming from with young Black men. They don`t have male role models.


WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: One other thing I got to throw in here. I`m curious to know about his video game use, because the research is pretty clear how it desensitizes --


WALSH: -- almost felt like they were playing a video game.

PINSKY: Well, listen. Everybody comes back -- I don`t know. Miss Ali, what`s the worst part of this?

ALI: Well, here`s the worst part. You know, we always talk about how the children are using bad language, they`re practicing and brandishing guns, glorifying weapons and violence. Where did they get those ideas from? They got those ideas from the big White producers and businessmen who produce and put out this kind of information for our children.

PINSKY: There we go. There`s the Miss Ali I know and love. We`re going to be back with more "Behavior Bureau" after this.



ALI: Let me tell you clear, let me give you clear. This is clear. What I tell my little son, listen, I want you to be careful. There are some White men, not all of them, but some White men out there that want to kill you and stomp your life out like they did your forefathers. So, you have to be careful of the White police, the White store keeper, the White businessman, the White everybody, because they hate you.

PINSKY: Miss Ali, that breaks my heart.


PINSKY: Back with the "Behavior Bureau" and my co-host, Jenny Hutt. We`re trying to understand the senseless killings, killing of this college student shot out of boredom. We don`t know really -- Miss Ali, let me turn that around, what you said in that little piece of tape. Should White people be afraid because of all this now?

I mean, is that really we want to go? We have to teach your Black sons to be afraid and we have the Caucasians -- that seems like the wrong direction, no?

ALI: Well, I think it`s the wrong direction, but we have more reason than you all do. The other thing is, I feel very badly for the parents of that young man. But they should have never sent their child over here to Sodom and Gomorrah, because when you come into America, because of so many things just recently, what have we had? One man kill an unarmed teenager and he go free.

Another man kidnap three White women and the judge give him 1,000 years. So, there`s no justice. So, I really wish they would just get these boys some help, but they`re going to put them in prison because they make money off of them in jail.


PINSKY: Samantha, go ahead.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: OK. First of all, I think that this is some sort of gang initiation. I know Miss Ali sees it differently. But when you look at their social media, the only --


SCHACHER: Hold -- actually, Miss Ali, I do, OK? You can`t judge a book by a cover. You don`t know how I grew up, OK? Now, first of all, those social media --


SCHACHER: OK. Miss Ali, may I speak without you judging me? I really appreciate it. I allowed you to speak without judging you. Thank you very much. I actually respect you. Obviously, it`s not reciprocated, but thank you very much. So, what I was about to say is if you -- OK, well, thank you. What I was about to say, if you look at those social media posts, I`m sorry, not only are they celebrating the gang lifestyle, but they`re also announcing their participation.

And you may say that certain teenagers may exaggerate their posts in order to embrace their peers, but hold on, hold on Miss Ali, where are they getting the guns in all those images of the piles of cash?

ALI: You tell me. You all people make them, you tell me.


WRIGHT: Samantha, Samantha, Samantha, first of all, the guns, Samantha, I think you`re a little naive about Jay-Z and like hip-hop. I mean, Jay-Z has made a fortune off of --

SCHACHER: Oh my God.

WRIGHT: Glorifying bang, bang, shoot `em up. I mean, come on --


SCHACHER: Where did they get the guns and cash, Crystal? Where did they get the guns and cash?

WRIGHT: It`s not about gang issues, it`s about hip-hop and --

PINSKY: My son went and shot a gun last weekend. I thought it wasn`t a bad idea. He was shooting at targets. He plays video games. He`s not going to go shoot people. He`s not going to do it.

SCHACHER: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: It`s not going to happen. So, there`s more than video games, more than gangs going on.


PINSKY: Well, I think we all agree with that.

WALSH: Well, I do. I think there`s definitely opposing research on the video game thing and it certainly has to do with how supervises and how much time they`re spending. If they`re spending, you know, eight hours a day playing video games is going to have a different effect on the brain than they do 30 minutes after homework.

But Dr. Drew, I`m going to partially agree with Miss Ali on one thing about this kid being brought to Sodom and Gomorrah. Have you seen the online stuff happening right now telling people not to send -- tourists not to come to America? Everybody has guns. Not to send their foreign students here, how dangerous it is? This is a tragedy for all of us. This is a big blur on --

WRIGHT: It`s a big black tragedy. That`s what it is. It`s a big Black tragedy, none of you will say it, that`s what it is.

PINSKY: You`ve said it. We`ve got to leave it there. Thank you, panel. Next up, Jenny and I are going to talk about Antoinette Tuff (ph), the incredible woman who prevented a highly armed school intruder from hurting a single person. Be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said you don`t care if he dies. He don`t have nothing to live for. He`s not mentally stable. Don`t feel bad, baby. My husband just left me after 33 years. Yes, you do. I mean, I`m sitting here with you. We all go through something in life. No, you don`t want that. You`re going to be OK.


PINSKY: "Last Call" goes to Antoinette Tuff. I want to get her name right, because she`s the elementary school bookkeeper who persuaded a gunman, highly armed, to surrender. Jenny, it was incredible. Did you see those tapes?

HUTT: I did. And I got to meet her today in the makeup room at CNN, and she`s extraordinary. She`s lovely, has an adult daughter who just finished law school, and what a remarkable, incredible woman. Beautiful inside and out.

PINSKY: She was on "Anderson Cooper" tonight. Take a look.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: How did you remain so calm throughout this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was actually praying on the inside. I was terrified, but I just started praying. Knowing that if I got as hysterical as I was on the inside on the outside, that he would wind up panicking.

COOPER: So, inside you were feeling hysterical?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was terrified on the inside. Very scared.


PINSKY: Jenny, I`ve just got seconds, but did you see her meet with the 911 operator?

HUTT: I did see that. It was beautiful. She`s really incredible -- such composure. And she really saved a ton of kids from a potential tragedy. What an incredible woman. That`s all you can say.

PINSKY: Thank you, guys.

HUTT: She gives me faith in humanity.

PINSKY: Got to go. "HLN After Dark" begins right now.