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Missing Erica`s Parents Appear on Dr. Phil Show; Girl Never Reported Missing for Two Years
Aired August 22, 2013 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are investigating the whereabouts of their adopted daughter, Erica.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not missing. (INAUDIBLE) know where she was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, no, you don`t know where she is. If you know where she is, then we could go get her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said Nan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told investigators that Erica was with her grandmother. But police say that information didn`t pan out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the Parsons` son, James, told the sheriff`s office that his step-sister was missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: James has said that, We killed her and buried her in our back yard. The detectives had told him this was a homicide investigation. They really wasn`t even trying to find Erica.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey`s husband, Sandy Parsons, did take a polygraph test. Did you deliberately cause Erica`s disappearance? Did you have a plan to cause Erica`s disappearance? And his answer to both questions was no. The results to both questions was strongly deceptive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erica is fine. I don`t have a doubt in my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI, SBI and Rowan (ph) County sheriff`s office conducted a massive search of the Parsons` property.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not fear anything happened to Erica.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: She`s fine? You think she`s fine? Then produce her! That was from Dr. Phil.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Breaking news tonight, live to North Carolina. A special needs little girl vanishes into thin air. That`s bad enough, but here`s the kicker. Little Erica vanishes two years ago, and nobody -- repeat, nobody -- reports her gone.
Bombshell tonight. Erica`s adoptive parents take to the airways to explain why they kept cashing those government checks every single month for keeping disabled Erica. But when Daddy takes a polygraph, he doesn`t get a zero. He gets a negative-9. Translation, he flunked!
As we go to air tonight, we learn police find children`s teeth, a hammer, video and JonBenet Ramsey magazines in the Parsons` secret storage barn.
Tonight, the question still lingers, where is Erica? You know what? I`m just stunned these two go on Dr. Phil. Now, yes, I`ve been on Dr. Phil. I like Phil. I like his lovely wife, Robin. But I`m telling you, for them to go on a show like that and be questioned and picked apart -- in fact, you know what? Dr. Phil didn`t even have to try too, too hard to get it out of them.
I mean, out to you, Jim Barroll, WBT. They`re claiming they sent little Erica to go live at grandma`s? Well, grandma`s been dead for five years. That`s such a line of BS. This child has got to be dead, Jim!
JIM BARROLL, WBT RADIO (via telephone) Well, there`s a big question mark about where she is. You know, if she were alive, with all of this fuss being made over her, somebody would have produced her by now. At least, that`s the thinking.
Police don`t believe the story about her being taken to live with her grandmother, Irene Goodman (ph), known as Nan. They can`t even tell police how they got there, or where she lives. And yet we`re being told that, Oh, yes, we thought she would be in good hands with her biological grandmother.
And yet nobody can find the biological grandmother, and by all accounts, she`s been dead for five years. So it`s all kind of fishy.
GRACE: Well, I was reading the police warrants and the police information, where the mom says, Come and take her away. I can`t stand to look at her.
Also in the police documents -- and I have them here. Out to you, Jean Casarez. The police documents say that she would show up at family get- togethers like reunions, and quote, "Her butt would be covered in bruises."
Now, come on, Jean. For a mother to say, Take her away from me, I can`t stand to look at her? I mean, this child is wearing a 3 tee at age 7, all right? My children haven`t worn a 3 tee since they were 2 years old, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Nancy, since this all came to light, all of these family members are now talking. And many of them are children in their own right that were in the home. And they are saying that the adoptive mother and father, especially the mother, continually, allegedly, physically and emotionally abused her. And along with saying, I can`t stand to even look at her, she would end that sentence with, She reminds me of her biological mother.
GRACE: You know, Jean, I`m just thinking. I`m thinking about this child. And going home -- it`s bad enough for a child, period, but for a special needs child -- children don`t understand when an adult, who`s like a giant to them, comes at them and starts beating them every time she`d come home, much less a special needs child. They can`t understand anything except getting beaten over and over.
And the family, the relatives seeing the bruises on her backside and all over her body -- for a mother to say, Take her, get her out of my sight, I can`t stand to look at her?
Jean, I want you to hear what these two said. I haven`t even gotten to the polygraph yet, Jean, that the father made a negative-9 on. I haven`t heard a negative score since O.J. made a negative score on his civil polygraph. This father made a negative-9, all right, on Dr. Phil`s polygraph.
But I want you to hear what they said on Dr. Phil. Buckle your seatbelt, Jean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY PARSON`S, ERICA`S ADOPTIVE MOTHER: I do not fear anything happened to Erica.
SANDY PARSONS, ERICA`S ADOPTIVE FATHER: Erica is fine. I don`t have a doubt in my mind.
CASEY PARSONS: Erica is not missing. Erica is with Nan.
SANDY PARSONS: I told my wife not to worry.
CASEY PARSONS: This would all be over if Nan or Erica would just pick the phone up and call.
I wasn`t worried. I knew Erica was safe. I understood that Erica was probably scared I would bring her home. I wasn`t concerned about Erica`s wellbeing. Nan had always held her word. And this was a mutual agreement. It`s not like Nan took her and ran. I told her OK.
DR. PHIL, HOST: The difference is, you thought you knew where Erica was.
CASEY PARSONS: I did know where she was.
DR. PHIL: Well, no, you don`t know where she is. If you know where she is, then we could go get her.
CASEY PARSONS: She`s with Nan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from Dr. Phil. And Dr. Phil is obviously trying his best not to strangle the lady who keeps answering in these non sequiturs. In other words, it doesn`t make sense. Her answers don`t match what he is asking her.
Out to the lines. Allison in California. Hi, Allison. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I understand she has special needs, and I want to know -- I love all four of my kids, and one of them happens to be special needs. If she was getting money, why didn`t she use some of that on getting a behavioral therapist to come in her home and help her, if she was so frustrated with this child, instead of beating her?
GRACE: Well, I think the easy answer to that is she only took the money for herself. She wasn`t spending it on Erica at all. She didn`t want to spend on Erica. I mean, Allison, I`ve just read you -- and I`ve got it right here. You may not have heard this. But she is quoted as saying, Get this child out of my sight. Take her away. I can`t stand to look at her. She didn`t care about a behavioral therapist!
And you know what strikes me? Out to you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." When I pick my children up at school and I say, Hey, what do you want to do, you want to go play here, you want to go play there, blah, blah, blah. They go, We want to go home. Let`s go home and play in the playroom. They want to go home.
But this mother is saying, I`m sure she was afraid I`d take her home.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Oh. You know why the little girl -- she knew the little girl did not want to come home. And she says that to Dr. Phil. And the reason she does that is she is belittling the victim. She`s blaming this child and saying, The reason this child is not in our home is this child did not want to be in our home.
And that is the hallmark of child abuse, is when the parent blames the child for anything wrong that has befallen the child.
GRACE: Out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, I am sick to my stomach about this, when I think about what this child has endured. She`s special needs, which means -- of course she didn`t want to go home. That`s where she would get beaten and abused. And this lie that the parents are telling, now has been proven with a polygraph, that it`s with Nana. Who`s Nana?
Both of her grandparents are dead, all right? So that`s a big, fat lie. And it`s been proven by the polygraph, Marc Klaas.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, that`s exactly right. Nana is a figment of their imagination, and they`ve totally boxed themselves in by not having a story that at least made some kind of sense. If they had said she ran away, and then reported her missing a couple of days after whatever they did to her they did, then they might have been able to get away.
But these people don`t think forward. They`re the dumbest crooks since the ones we were talking about on your show yesterday.
GRACE: Well, I want to remind everyone that neither of them have been prosecuted for abuse, for child abuse. Neither Sandy, the dad, nor Casey Parsons, the mom, have ever been prosecuted.
I`m very curious. Do we know, Jim Barroll, whether family services, protective services, were ever called in about this child?
BARROLL: Best of my knowledge, no. There`s -- there`s no record of family services having a lot of interaction -- well, any interaction that I`m aware of, other than perhaps the government checks being mailed once a month, or however often they came in. But in terms of them -- the adoptive parents of Erica working with anyone from family services, I am not aware of that.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, when was the last time anybody saw the girl?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, it was on that third and fateful time that they claim they dropped off the little girl at the local McDonald`s and never saw her again. It was in November...
GRACE: No, no! No, no! No, no! I`m not talking about when the parents say they saw her, Clark! Come on, use your noodle!
GOLDBAND: Well, that`s -- that`s...
GRACE: Who outside the family. When is the last time anybody else had seen her? For all I know, she could have been gone four or five years. Who saw her last outside the family?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, that is going to be key to this investigation. We just don`t know. We know there were three visits in a row around the fall of 2011 to see Grandma, but quite frankly...
GRACE: According to who? According to who?
GOLDBAND: According to the adoptive parents. Quite frankly...
GRACE: Put him up!
GOLDBAND: ... some of the best...
GRACE: Clark! Clark! Just stop. Stop! Clark, did you just hear that they flunked the polygraph on Dr. Phil, and you`re telling me what they said? That doesn`t mean a hill of beans to me. In fact, if they say it...
GOLDBAND: But Nancy...
GRACE: ... you can count on it`s a lie! What?
GOLDBAND: But Nancy, some of the best witnesses may be in that home, who are the other children...
GRACE: You`re right.
GOLDBAND: ... including the 20-year-old estranged son and the two younger children. Perhaps, if investigators have talked to them already, they could help narrow down this timeline.
GRACE: OK, Clark, that makes sense to me. Let`s talk about -- Clark Goldband, while I`ve got you on a roll, what did police find in that secret storage barn? And it wasn`t behind their house, like I first thought. It was several miles away from the home.
GOLDBAND: Yes, it was about seven miles away from the home, Nancy. And what law enforcement took out of there we have on a search warrant return. It included a vacuum cleaner, a vacuum filter, teeth, a hammer, school records and a videotape.
Now, the mom is speaking out to local media, saying she saves all of her children`s teeth from the tooth fairy, so perhaps that explains why the teeth are there.
GRACE: She saves them and hides them in a shed?
Unleash the lawyers. Mickey Sherman, New York, Randy Kessler, Atlanta. Mickey Sherman, Clark left out one thing that they found in that storage barn. They had hoarded a bunch of magazines about JonBenet Ramsey, Mickey. Thoughts?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Which proves they have crappy taste in literature. But it doesn`t prove that they killed anybody. And if they`ve got all these...
GRACE: I bet you don`t hoard JonBenet Ramsey magazines, Mick!
SHERMAN: No, but people are fascinated by that. That doesn`t mean they`re killers or murderers. I mean, these people, if they`re so...
GRACE: Why would they save that?
SHERMAN: God knows why would people do anything -- buy any kind of magazine like that. There`s a market for it.
GRACE: What about it, Kessler? What about it, Kessler? Why would they save that, along with children`s teeth? There were red stains on the baseboards of the barn.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Children`s teeth? Where are your children`s teeth? You got them in a storage unit?
KESSLER: I`m not going to tell you. The tooth fairy`s got them. But you know what? She`s -- so they`re guilty of saving magazines and reading bad magazines. That`s not guilty. Bottom line, Nancy, is if they`ve done all these horrible things and beat these children, how come they haven`t been prosecuted? The police should be doing the job. We`re not going to convict them on TV. They`ve got to be convicted...
GRACE: Don`t start with me about the police. Don`t even start saying it`s the police`s fault!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY PARSONS: I did know where she was. With Nan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person they think is Nan evidently does not exist, according to law enforcement.
CASEY PARSONS: I wasn`t concerned about Erica`s wellbeing. Nan had always held up to her word. There`s no threat. She`s not missing.
Because she is not missing. She`s at Nan`s house.
To me, she`s still not missing. She`s not missing as far as I know who she`s with.
She loves Nan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly a hole in it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What, does the adoptive dad just sit there like a lump on a log? You were just seeing Dr. Phil.
Out to you, Jean Casarez. What does the father say?
CASAREZ: The father is the one who did the polygraph and said that he did not -- there were two questions that were posed to him, if he planned at all to deliberately cause Erica`s disappearance, and if he had that plan in place. He said no to both of them, and that is what was determined to be strongly deceptive.
GRACE: And Jean, I saw you glance down to get the wording exactly correctly, and that`s very important because when you are -- let`s see those questions again. Let`s put them up. We want to go over what Jean just accurately reported. "Did you deliberately cause Erica`s disappearance?" "Did you have a plan to cause Erica`s disappearance?"
You know, out to Bill Majeski, former NYPD, certified polygraph examiner. The questions, the wording of the questions, is extremely important. And Dr. Phil got it right. Why is the wording so important? To just say, "Did you kill her," that`s not the way to go on a polygraph, is it, Majeski.
BILL MAJESKI, FORMER NYPD OFFICER (via telephone): No. No, not at all, Nancy. Nancy, how are you these days? But let me explain how this works.
There`s usually a rather lengthy preliminary process that the examiner goes through with the person that`s being tested. And during that process, one of the things that is gone over, all of the questions that will be asked during the test. And then each question is actually explained to the person, and then the person is usually asked to explain back to the examiner exactly what they`re thinking about when they hear that question, so that there`s absolute clarity in terms of the type of the question (INAUDIBLE) the definition of the words that are used in the question and what the person is thinking about when they respond to that question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY PARSONS: Just such a precious child. (INAUDIBLE) horses (ph). She had (INAUDIBLE) She got stuff (ph). She was a teenager. She was with her grandparent because (INAUDIBLE) summer fun and just living her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. For those of you just joining us, a special needs little girl goes missing. Turns out she`s been missing for two years, over two years. Her parents, her adoptive parents who have been collecting a check from the government every single month, nearly $700 a month, claim that she`s at Grandma`s. Grandma`s been dead for five years!
We are taking your calls. Out to Joseph in South Carolina. Hi, Joseph. What`s your question? Do I have Joseph with me? OK, next caller. Jessica in North Carolina. Hi, Jessica. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where does common sense come into play? Because if this alleged Nan really, truly did exist, why did it not raise red flags when the parents were no longer able to get in communication with this woman, and when the biological family said that she had passed away?
GRACE: Out to you, Jim Barroll. Let`s talk about Nan. The mom keeps saying she`s at grandma`s, who she calls Nan. But police have looked and looked. They`ve exhausted every avenue. They say there is no Nan.
BARROLL: Well, in fact, Dr. Phil, I think, even did a little bit of checking beforehand and got in touch with about, I don`t know, about 15 or so Irene Goodmans in the area, none of whom had any connection with this family whatsoever. And the nearest one was somewhere about, I don`t know, 35, 40 miles away, at least, from the Asheville area.
And all the other family members contacted who would know about this biological grandmother say she`s long gone. She`s been dead. And nobody has any address. Nobody knows how to -- you know, obviously, how do you contact a dead person, right?
So that`s pretty much the state of things. If there is a Nan around, the only people that know where she is would be the adoptive parents, if, in fact, they`re telling the truth, and they -- they`re denying it. So they say they don`t know where she is, which is, you know, the state of affairs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY PARSONS: They asked me did I kill her. I honestly believe she`s still in Asheville with Nan.
To me, she`s still not missing. She`s not missing (INAUDIBLE) know who she`s with. I still believe she`s with Nan. I think she`s scared and maybe (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one has seen or heard from Erica Lynn Parsons. Rowan County deputies say she disappeared from this Salisbury home she shared with her adoptive parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She (INAUDIBLE) earlier this year, I talked to Erica on Facebook. She had a Facebook page and she had talked to her and asked her, How are you doing? And she replied, I`m fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cannot find that Facebook.
SANDY PARSONS: I told my wife not to worry.
CASEY PARSONS: This would all be over if Nan or Erica would just pick the phone up and call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from Dr. Phil, where these two made an appearance and took one, very, very failed polygraph. The adoptive father took that polygraph and made a negative-9 when questioned about baby Erica, little Erica.
We are taking your calls, but joining me right now is a very special guest, whom we are calling Stephanie tonight -- we are not revealing her full name at her request -- who actually hired Casey Parsons, the woman you`re looking at, the woman that gave a special needs daughter away, she says -- she hired her as her surrogate. Casey Parsons actually carried Stephanie`s egg, her child.
Stephanie, thank you for being with us.
STEPHANIE, HIRED MISSING GIRL`S MOM AS A SURROGATE: Thank you for having me, Nancy. I feel (INAUDIBLE) about this case as you do.
GRACE: When you first heard -- thank you. When you first heard that little Erica, Casey Parson`s special needs daughter, had been gone for two years, what was your first reaction?
STEPHANIE: I just immediately thought that they had killed her.
GRACE: Stephanie, it`s very difficult for me to recount the horrific scenario you went through when Casey Parsons carried your baby. How did you hook up with her to start with? Why did you pick her to carry your child?
STEPHANIE: I chose her because she seemed like a perfect candidate. She misrepresented herself from day one. She had a calling from God, and this was her dream, to help us bring our child into the world.
GRACE: She actually said the word she had a calling from God. Did I just hear that right?
GRACE: OK. Can you tell us in your own words -- I don`t want to paraphrase this story. What happened with your baby? As she was carrying it?
STEPHANIE: Well, she faked a miscarriage at six weeks along. She would not turn over any doctor records to confirm the pregnancy. She was going to her clinic and I was here in another state with my clinic. And she would not fax in the paperwork. That showed that the pregnancy has been terminated. So I -- when I exhausted myself sending e-mails, she had changed her phone numbers so I couldn`t get through. She sent me just horrible, horrible e-mails how I -- that I would never see her doctor records and that I needed to get a life.
GRACE: Let`s go back through those e-mails. New York, could you put those back up, please?
These are e-mails allegedly from Casey Parson`s to Stephanie.
"My doctor records has nothing to do with your baby. They are my medical records. My OB/GYN told me there was nothing that would benefit you from them. I don`t understand why these are so important to you. I`m sorry, but I`m seeking to close this. I`m in the process of talking with a local couple and need to focus all my attention on an upcoming cycle. I am sorry about all that has happened."
Now isn`t it true, Stephanie, she told you she miscarried your baby?
STEPHANIE: Absolutely she did.
GRACE: What`s the truth? What was the truth?
STEPHANIE: The truth was she was carrying my child and she was planning on --
GRACE: Planning on what?
STEPHANIE: Telling him. Telling him.
GRACE: How do you know this? How do you know this to be true?
STEPHANIE: OK. I know it to be true because she had mentioned an adoption lawyer down there several times while she was at my house. And she told me that he was able to change the birth certificate on anybody`s birth certificate. And put an adoption through.
GRACE: So you need that --
STEPHANIE: When I called him -- when I found out that she was pregnant, not until March 17th, I happened to call him. And I said, there is a lady out there carrying our child. And I want you to know, if she makes a phone call to you, that baby is ours. And we are in the process of retrieving him right now. And she called me back, and told me that she had left two messages to make contact with him.
GRACE: Did you get your baby?
STEPHANIE: Absolutely. My baby came out of her body, into my arms, and I have not let go since.
GRACE: Now what was her story? As to -- explaining her actions?
STEPHANIE: Well, she -- she just -- she set out to do this to us. There is no doubt.
GRACE: So she was going to give the money you paid her and also sell the baby, put it up for adoption.
GRACE: That`s putting perfume on the pig. From what she allegedly was doing, according to you. So she was going to make the money you gave her. How much were you paying her?
STEPHANIE: Well, actually, in Michigan, you can`t really pay for a surrogacy. You can`t pay somebody to carry a baby. But what we could do, we could pay medical expenses, we could pay for her -- you know, the things that would -- you know, what would pertain to this pregnancy.
Now what she wanted, OK, in the beginning, she wanted all of her funds to go directly to her church. They were building on a new wing. So we were just going to donate to her church on her behalf.
GRACE: And what happened with that?
STEPHANIE: Well, the sixth month, she went back and she was pregnant. And she called me and said, "Oh, my washer and dryer broke down, I need you to send me the first thousand to my house. After that, we`ll start with the church."
GRACE: So forget about the church and that new wing they were building?
STEPHANIE: Right. Right.
GRACE: OK. All right, now, so she tells you she miscarried, turns out -- that she was trying to put the baby -- your baby up for adoption, according to you.
GRACE: And you -- how did you end up getting your baby from her?
STEPHANIE: Well, we found out March 17th, he was born the end of May. We -- OK. Her -- a family member happened to send me a message on a Web site that she was on constantly when she was at my house and I found the message. Looking for the Michigan couple that worked with Casey Parsons, I have some wonderful news for you. And that was her beautiful sister, Robin, who is truly an angel.
GRACE: Now you finally get your baby. And you find out through the sister that the baby exists, the baby is alive.
GRACE: You also -- that was a baby boy. Now you also have a little girl, correct?
STEPHANIE: Yes. My oldest is a girl.
GRACE: Now wasn`t there some story being told that you didn`t want the baby if it was a girl? Which was absolutely a lie?
STEPHANIE: Yes. Absolutely.
GRACE: What was that?
STEPHANIE: That was a fabrication. I think -- what I think -- well, she had actually told her family that, that the baby was the wrong sex so we had changed our mind and we wanted her to abort. That`s what she told her family. Now her dear sister, Robin, knew that you don`t spend $10,000 on IVF cycle and change your mind. You just don`t do that.
That`s how she was able to hunt me down. Thank god she did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It got the public`s attention right from the start. A teenage girl missing for nearly two years but only now reported as missing. And not a lot of folks seem to know 15-year-old Erica Parsons. Adopted by Sandy and Casey Parsons when she was a baby. The girl was home- schooled and gone by the age of 13.
CASEY PARSONS, MISSING GIRL`S MOM: We had done nothing to this kid, our Erica. Nothing. And even though she -- read in the paper, we had nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The little girl was wearing a 3T in the first grade. For all of you moms out there, you know, a 3T is designed for a 3-year-old. My children didn`t wear a 3T since they were 2. This child in the first grade was still wearing a 3T. She couldn`t have weighed over 20 pounds, wearing a 3T, 21, 22, maybe, in the first grade.
That should have set off red bells of alarm to everyone involved. But now this child has been missing. Missing. The most disturbing part is she`s been missing for two years and was never reported gone.
Let`s take a look at what mommy and daddy said on Dr. Phil. In addition to flunking a polygraph test. Now the adoptive dad flunk the polygraph test with a negative 9, and then suddenly mom seeks out. She says she`s too ill to take her poly. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PHIL MCGRAW, "DR. PHIL SHOW": Are you not worried about Erica?
C. PARSONS: I do not understand why Nan, like she cared enough about our whole family, just -- she doesn`t get on the phone and call and let us know where they`re at. So this stuff would stop and that makes me wonder about Nan. Why? Why would she let us go through all this stuff?
MCGRAW: Are you worried about her now? Are you worried that this Nan, this Strawberry, this Kelly, any of them know where she is and they`re not telling you?
SANDY PARSONS, MISSING GIRL`S DAD: I`m just worried that she won`t call. I`m worried that they`re scared or they`re going to get in trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That tear didn`t quite come out. That`s from Dr. Phil. And I guarantee, if you find Nan, I will take this handwritten note that I made and I will eat them on the air. If you really find Nan.
First of all, out to Amy in Texas. Hi, Amy, what`s your question?
AMY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
AMY: I just have -- right now, I`m just -- I don`t even know how to explain it. How do a mother and father not know that their child is missing for two years and they don`t care about it?
GRACE: Out to the lawyers. Unleash the lawyers. Mickey Sherman and Randy Kessler. How does that work, guys? What about it? To you, Kessler. You`ve got a beautiful family. How does your daughter goes missing for two years and you don`t -- you can`t quite put your finger on Nan?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s unexplainable. And you know what, there are a lot of bad facts and there`s a lot of bad circumstantial evidence, but that`s not evidence of murder, that`s not evidence of kidnapping, it`s not evidence of selling your child.
Yes, they`ve done some bad stuff but they have not been prosecuted. Why haven`t --
GRACE: Put him up, please. Maybe because up until now they had no idea what was going on, Mickey Sherman. How about that?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": Right now the police know what`s going on and there has been no arrest warrant, to our knowledge. You know, the only thing that`s convicted them is the public perception that was created by their appearance on Dr. Phil. That`s total pollution --
GRACE: Whoa. Let me dissect that.
GRACE: The public perception.
GRACE: That was created by their appearance on Dr. Phil. Somehow that seems like you`re blaming the Dr. Phil people. All he did was ask them questions and all the father did was lie. All right. I mean, he failed his polygraph.
SHERMAN: He did more than ask questions. He set them up. And I`m not blaming him. That`s what --
GRACE: Set them up?
SHERMAN: He set them up --
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. What do you mean, he set them up?
SHERMAN: He looks like a promotion for a bad lifetime movie. The dark shadows and everything like that.
GRACE: No. No. I want to hear this. I want to hear why you`re saying Phil set them up. Because I think it was just honest questions, like, where`s Nan, where`s Strawberry and all these other people they alluded to? They can`t find any of them.
SHERMAN: I will --
GRACE: Why shouldn`t he ask them?
SHERMAN: I will bet you that when the booker or the -- the producer called these people or their lawyer and their lawyer, they said we`re going to do a balanced piece. And you`re going to get your side out there. But it doesn`t work that way.
Dr. Phil is there to entertain the people. And he does a good job of it. I`ve been on the show. It`s a lot of fun. But you`re not going to be there for your trial.
GRACE: Let me tell you something, Mik, I`ve been on his show, too.
GRACE: And I didn`t feel blindsided at all. I feel like he asked me fair questions and I gave the best answers I could. I bet you didn`t feel like you had gotten the once-over, did you?
SHERMAN: No. Not at all.
GRACE: Because you weren`t lying. You weren`t lying, were you?
SHERMAN: No. No, but I also -- I wasn`t in a position where I was a suspect in a murder case.
GRACE: Kessler, what are you smiling about?
KESSLER: Because you guys are -- you know, there is no conviction. I think Mickey is exactly right. If there is so much evidence --
GRACE: Why don`t you just blurt out -- you know, it`s like frog that goes ribbit, ribbit, ribbit. It always says the same thing. You always say there is no conviction. I know there is no conviction because there hasn`t been an arrest yet.
KESSLER: There`s no arrest. Right. And why has there not been an arrest?
GRACE: Because the police are just now finding out the girl has been gone for two years. Because the parents didn`t report it.
KESSLER: This aired --
GRACE: And somehow Sherman is trying to blame Dr. Phil, of all people. Who are you going to blame next? His wife?
KESSLER: Dr. Phil wasn`t -- it`s been days.
GRACE: Because she walked out with him? All right, Bethany Marshall -- you know what, hold on, Bethany.
Let me have Bethany and Marc Klaas. First to you, Klaas.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, sure. I mean, Nan Gran, is as much a figment of the imagination as was Zany the nanny. And that`s what caught these people up. They can`t produce this woman because she doesn`t exist. Therefore their story completely and totally falls apart.
GRACE: Bethany, I know where my children are. At least I think I do. I think I know where they are right now. It`s amazing to me that two years pass, and even if you accept their story, that`s still child neglect. For your child to be gone two years and you never even check on them, never see them?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": But Nancy, you had babies because you love them and wanted them. The Parsons have babies because babies are marks. They use babies to make money. This is a baby mill. She agreed to be a surrogate so that she could con the money off Stephanie, your guest on the show tonight, and then she tried to con another -- a couple.
She had Erica because she wanted to con the state. This little girl was probably underweight because she didn`t want to feed her. She probably didn`t even want to buy a gallon of milk at the grocery store because every -- all the money she spent at the grocery store was money that they wouldn`t have in the family coffers.
They abused children financially and that is the offending pattern, and they told themselves their own lies for so long, they felt the public would believe them. And they believed them, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did the police say when they showed up?
C. PARSONS: That Erica -- it`s reported that Erica -- we had killed Erica and buried her in our backyard.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s been a year and a half. Why did you not call the police?
C. PARSONS: Because she`s not missing. She`s at Nan`s house. And the last time we talked to Erica, in February 2012, she was fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I save the big guns for last. Joining me right now, Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining me out of Philly.
Dr. Manion, thank you for being with us. Investigators just took vacuum pieces from that red storage barn. What are they looking for?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, they`ll study the vacuum for hair and in particular if they can find hair follicles, they can do DNA testing on that to see if that`s the little girl that`s missing. If the suspects try to clean up the scene, we will have hair follicles, maybe even some blood. You know, they`ll check with Luminal to see if there`s any blood traces on the hair filter.
GRACE: If Erica`s body is, let`s say, outside in the elements somewhere, what would be left of her remains at this point?
MANION: Well, two years her body would be very decomposed. But if they can get some cadaver dogs out there in an area where there is a likelihood of finding her that the dogs would still be able to pick up her scent even in two years.
GRACE: Would the remains be completely skeletonized by this point?
MANION: Well, if the ground is dry, the body will be more mummified. If it`s wet, it will be more decomposed. So it always depends on the environment of the ground itself.
GRACE: So you`re saying that it`s -- her remains would not be just bones, that there would be soft tissue still?
MANION: Yes, yes. And they can -- and they can even do DNA on the marrow and they would be able to determine that it`s her. As long as they have some other tissue to compare it with. Like her mom, if they could compare tissue with her mom, they could determine it was her.
GRACE: And we -- I notice that the biological mom who gave her up for adoption talks of her in the present tense. The adoptive parents talk of her in the past tense, Dr. Manion.
MANION: Well, that`s a bad sign. I`m not trying to be pessimistic. But I don`t think -- I don`t think she is still alive. And I just hope we can, you know, find her remains and bring justice to this case.
GRACE: Everyone, Labor Day coming up. We celebrate a very special group of workers, working moms.
Are you a working mom? Do you know one who deserves recognition for hard work at home and at work?
I want to hear from you. Send us a video explaining why you or your loved one is the best working mom in America. Five videos with the most votes win my signature handcuff necklace, earrings, T-shirts, the works.
Details, go to Nancygrace.com. After you go to the Web site, send in those videos.
We remember American hero Marine Lance Corporal Jason Smith, 21, Phoenix, Arizona. Silver Star. Parents Glen and Jody.
Jason Smith, American hero.
We have breaking news right now.
Clark Goldband, what do you know?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Breaking news, Nancy, we`re just getting this off the wires from WCNC. They are reporting the FBI has spent all day speaking with the girl`s uncle and someone else who reported her missing.
Once again, they were at the uncle`s home according to these breaking reports. We`re tracking it right now, Nancy.
GRACE: Now they are the ones who first reported the little girl missing.
GRACE: All right. Mick and Randy, out to you. Mickey, what does this mean?
SHERMAN: It means they`ve got some serious problems if they`ve got the FBI looking at them. If they`re in their sights, that can be a problem. But enough time has gone by that I don`t know that they`re going to be able to find any evidence.
GRACE: Kessler ?
KESSLER: I agree. I mean, they`ve got a lot of problems and you`ve gone through them the whole hour on the show. But they`re still have not been arrested. Until they`re arrested, they`re better off than after they`re arrested. The police have not even said we have probably cause to arrest yet. But I think it may be coming.
GRACE: Marc Klaas?
KLAAS: I think that these people are in very, very big trouble and they`re going to go down very soon now. They`ll find something.
GRACE: Everyone, tip line with the $15,000 reward, 704-216-8700.
Dr. Drew up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.