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Jodi`s Secret Stalling Strategy?; Defense Witness Faces Death Threats

Aired August 26, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. We have learned brand-new stunning information. Could there be a secret stalling strategy to push back Jodi`s death penalty retrial, because some people in power want this case to settle?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.


JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: The worst outcome for me would be natural life.


ARIAS: I lied about what I did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This was a woman with a toxic world view.

ARIAS: And I lied about the nature of my relationship with Travis.

ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: Threats to my life, threats to my family.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER, TRAVIS`S SISTER: Losing Travis has completely destroyed the overall health of our family.

ARIAS: I would much rather die sooner than later.

This is the worst mistake of my life.

LAVIOLETTE: I have thought about...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everything she said, assume the opposite.

ARIAS: There was a point in time where we were in love, but it was short-lived.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There she is, grinning again. Jodi Arias, convicted of murdering her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, but that didn`t stop Jodi from being all smiles when she left court today, probably because the judge is pushing back the date for her retrial again.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because the motions that were filed last week, the court is not prepared to set a trial date today. I do need to review those motions, give the state an opportunity to respond, the defense an opportunity to reply.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. After five months of testimony, 38 witnesses, more than 600 exhibits, and 1,500 pages of court transcripts -- and by the way, take a look at 1,500 pages of court transcripts. That`s how many pages we`re talking about. That`s heavy. We still don`t know if Jodi will get the death penalty or spend the rest of her life behind bars.

Tonight, as Jodi and her team prepares for the retrial, brand-new controversy over their star witness.

Domestic violence expert, Alyce LaViolette sparked outrage when she testified that Jodi was a victim of domestic violence. She went head-to- head with prosecutor Juan Martinez. We all remember that.

Well, tonight, she`s gone from sparring to sobbing over what she says are death threats against her.


LAVIOLETTE: I have thought about it. I woke up, and I was crying and I was shaking, and I`m not like that. I mean, I have never had anxiety in my life.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you feel about Alyce LaViolette? Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. I want to hear from you. Tonight, in our Lion`s Den, we have an incredible panel, including two of Travis Alexander`s best friends, Dave Hall and Josh Denny, who told me for my book, "Exposed," that Jodi Arias gave him a stripper vibe. I want to talk about that in a second.

But first, we`ve got breaking news for you on this case. Senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian, what have you heard about this new secret strategy to delay this death penalty retrial?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER (via phone): Jane, some of our sources in the legal community are telling us that this is a strategy by Jodi`s attorneys, Jennifer Willmott and Kirk Nurmi, that they filed two motions late in the week last week, and they knew that this date -- this hearing today was set a month ago. So they knew that this hearing was coming up, but they waited until late in the week last week to file these two motions, because they knew that the judge would then need time to review it, and the judge would then need time to give the prosecution time to respond to it.

So this is a stalling tactic by the defense team, to keep continuing this, hoping that there will somehow be a plea deal or something that will be worked out, so they won`t have to go to a retrial, and that they can save Jodi`s life that way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Let`s face it. They could have filed these motions a long time ago, not wanting television coverage, and wanting to monitor the jurors` tweets, but they waited until the 11th hour. Jordan Rose, are they playing the system?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I think this is kind of a "hail Mary," because this is all they have, Jane. All they have is delay. Because if they delay, they think, well, heck, you know, maybe she`ll read a bunch of books to people in jail, and people -- well, the jury pool will feel sorry for her. Delay can only help their case. And so it`s like, justice delayed is justice denied.

And in this case, the further they delay, the more hope they have that somehow our prosecutor here in Arizona will drop the case, not go for death, or she`ll be sympathetic. Not going to happen, but that`s their hope, and I think that`s their ploy, by filing motions late in the day last week...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman, what do you think?

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, they`re just -- look, the bottom line is they`re just delaying the inevitable. I mean, Jodi`s either going to be in prison the rest of her life or she`s going to go to Death Row.

What I find ironic, Jane, is this motion to ban live TV cameras from the courtroom. You won`t find anybody who loved the camera more -- both during the trial, before the trial, and after the trial -- than Jodi Arias. How ironic now that her attorneys are saying, "We don`t want any cameras in there," when she gobbled up those cameras during interviews before, in the courtroom during, being up there 18 days, and then afterwards, doing even more TV interviews. It`s outrageous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos, she wants it both ways. As Jon said, "Oh, when she wants the cameras, come on, line up, I`m going to do those interviews." But when she doesn`t want them, when it`s not to her benefit, get rid of the cameras. That`s not the way it`s supposed to work, Danny.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, just because she`s a problematic client, that doesn`t mean that she`s entitled to the Arizona rule, which provides a pretty simple balancing test.

Irrespective of what Jodi Arias has done in terms of giving interviews, it`s whether or not the potential danger, the burden of that -- of televising an event, is outweighed by the benefits. And if the state can`t articulate any benefits, if the media can`t articulate benefits, then there are some very serious prejudice that is going on. There`s Alyce LaViolette, who specifically feels afraid and is not testifying now.

LEIBERMAN: But Danny, if Alyce is so afraid -- Danny...

CEVALLOS: She shouldn`t be denied being able to call witnesses in her defense.

ROSE: That`s crazy.

LEIBERMAN: If Alyce is so afraid, why is she coming out doing interviews?

ROSE: This is America. We don`t just throw the First Amendment out the window.

CEVALLOS: Jon -- Jon...

ROSE: We allow cameras in the courtroom. It`s important for the public to know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to the gentleman who did this incredible interview. Domestic violence expert Alyce LaViolette told our very own CNN correspondent, Ted Rowlands, that she feels sorry and sad over all the anger that the public directed at her and at Jodi Arias. Listen to this.


LAVIOLETTE: I`m so sad that people were filled with such hatred for somebody they didn`t know. And I`m talking about Jodi, not just me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ted Rowlands, first of all, excellent exclusive. Kudos on getting that interview. But what is she talking about? Why is she still defending Jodi Arias when it`s been made pretty clear that most of what she said on the stand was twisted, if not outright lies from beginning to end?

I mean, it sounds like Alyce LaViolette is still believing that she killed in self-defense, even though the prosecutor proved that the bullet casing landed in blood, which means the that her version of events is just not true.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the reason is that she is definitely -- you can spin it any way you want -- she believes in Jodi Arias`s story. She believes Jodi Arias.

And I pressed her on that. I said, "Listen, you know, the jury believes this is first-degree murder. I haven`t said I believe it`s first- degree murder. What do you think this is?"

And she said, "Well, maybe second-degree murder." She`s convinced, after getting to know Jodi and hearing all of this and looking at all of this, that this was a self-defense scenario and that she was a victim of domestic violence. That`s her opinion. And that`s why she was brought in by the defense, and that`s why she was on the stand in defense of Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable!

Susan, Michigan, your question or thought. Let`s go out to the phone lines, Michigan.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. Your question or thought, my dear?

CALLER: Oh, hi! Hi, Jane. Yes, you know, it just goes back -- I bought your book, by the way.


CALLER: What I wanted to know, in the very beginning -- I`ve been watching the trial, and before they -- when they got the jury, they had asked everybody on -- who was picked for the jury, did they believe in the death penalty, and they all said yes. What happened?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, it`s very easy to believe in the death penalty, hypothetically. It`s another thing to send somebody to death that you spent five months with.

I liken it to, if you`re stuck in an elevator with somebody, you may not like them, but after five months, stuck in an elevator, you have some kind of bond with them. And I think that was part of a very successful defense strategy to keep her on the witness stand for 18 long days.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, I mean, and as you know, it wasn`t just a regular old bonding on an elevator. It was a rather pornographic bonding with the male jurors in their boxers, if you know what I mean.

And there`s no question that people can believe in the death penalty as a principle and not believe it`s the right result in a particular case. I don`t think that`s so curious.

The problem is, if you just think objectively about what Jodi Arias did, then you objectively apply the death penalty criteria. There shouldn`t even be a debate. There should be no discussion.

And that`s why she`s trying to delay this. She knows that the chances of her being put to death this time are huge.

I have a whole chapter called "Victory by Delay" in my book, "And Justice for Some," because this happens a lot. When you have no defense and you only have delay on your side, as a hope and a wish and a prayer, that you know, maybe everybody will drop dead or that, you know, the courthouse will be struck by lightning, I mean, that`s how desperate she is. That`s how much she knows, herself, she deserves to die.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Raj, you have been following this case. You`re going to look at it, of course, from a psychological angle. And when you see what is going down now, and you see that this jury, even though this was an absolutely cold-blooded murder. She slit his throat ear to ear. The last jury, they convicted her. They said it was cruel, but they couldn`t bring themselves to give her the death penalty.

Do you think anything`s going to change the next time around, when they have a new jury, and especially if she takes the stand for another 18 days and tries to bond with them?

DR. RAJ JUNEJA, AUTHOR, "YOU ARE MORE THAN THAT": I think what`s going to happen is it`s going to depend on the dynamics of exactly what happens in those days.

You know, this was a long and drawn trial. People bond. People do ultimately start seeing beyond the pathology. But one thing we know for sure is that there was pathology here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, on the other side of the break, what we`re going to do is talk to two of the victims, Travis Alexander`s very good friends, Dave Hall and Josh Denny. I want to get their reaction to what domestic violence expert for the defense, Alyce LaViolette, said, even now defending Jodi Arias, even now suggesting that this wasn`t really a cold-blooded murder. Are you kidding me?

Stay right there. On the other side, Travis` good friends speak out, because he can`t.


ROWLANDS: Why don`t you want to go back?

LAVIOLETTE: Threats to my life, threats to my family. My family doesn`t want me to go back.




LAVIOLETTE: "I hope you choke on a chicken bone, you fat bastard."

"I hope you get hit in the face with a baseball bat."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Domestic violence expert reading some of the threats she`s gotten. Her name is Alyce LaViolette. She spoke for the defense.

Even after Jodi was convicted of first-degree murder, premeditated murder, and the jury determined that the way she butchered Travis Alexander was especially cruel, this domestic violence expert, Alyce LaViolette, still apparently doesn`t believe that Jodi killed in cold blood. Listen to this.


LAVIOLETTE: I agree that she slaughtered him. I don`t believe she`s a cold-blooded murderer. I believe she was attacked and that she initially struck in self-defense and then lost it.

Actually, if you look at women, I went around and sort of did an informal poll on women, and I said, "If somebody attacked you and you had a knife, when would you stop stabbing them?"

And every single person said, "I don`t know."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the Lion`s Den. We have two good friends of Travis Alexander, the victim.

And I know Dave Hall, his blood is boiling right now listen to Alyce LaViolette say she still doesn`t believe that this was a murder, even though her story was disproven, because there was the bullet casing landing in the blood, therefore, she didn`t shoot him the way she said, she stabbed him first, Dave.

DAVE HALL, FRIEND, OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes, and first of all, Jane, I just want to say, I got your copy of your book over the weekend. I`m not all the way through it, but definitely a great book. Everyone should grab a copy of it.

But I`ve got to just say, about Alyce LaViolette, she just makes my blood boil, the way she says that she believes that Jodi was attacked and this was self-defense or at least a portion of it.

When Jodi was up here just hours after killing Travis, having dinner with me, there wasn`t a scratch on her. I guarantee, if Travis went after her, he was a very physically fit guy. If he went after her, there would be some black-and-blue bruises all over her body.

There`s not an ounce of evidence that ever supports self-defense in any way, shape, or form. And how can it be self-defense when you steal your grandparent`s gun and go to his house?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Josh Denny, you`re a dear friend of the victim, Travis Alexander, and I spoke with you for my book, as well. She is accepting Jodi`s stories at face value.

I don`t believe in threats against anyone. I think that`s dirty pool. But I can understand someone being very displeased with the fact that, even at this date, she doesn`t seem to be looking at the evidence objectively.

JOSH DENNY, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I don`t think she`s -- she`s got a story. She`s sticking with it. And she doesn`t want to -- she doesn`t want to release that.

Here`s what I know for sure, though. If she had met Travis and if she had had any opportunity to actually meet that man and get to know him, and hear what he had to say, there`s no way on God`s earth she`d be able to say the things she`s saying. There`s just not.

Travis was just an amazing human being, and had -- had Alyce had that opportunity to sit with him and hear both sides of things, there`s no way. She wouldn`t have even -- she wouldn`t have represented Jodi at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one of the interesting things is that she really bought her whole idea that Jodi said, you know, "I`m a submissive woman. I was vulnerable. I just went along with the sex, because Travis wanted me to, and he was the deviant."

And you know what? What I learned talking to you, Josh Denny, is that she was the temptress; she was the seductress. And that you saw right through it. And as Travis`s dear friend, you told me that you didn`t really think that he was sophisticated enough in the ways of women -- certain women, anyway -- to pick up on what you picked up on.

So right in my book -- I was very struck when you told me, and I included this in the book, that Jodi came on to you and she had a stripper- type of energy that read like, you know, "I`m willing to do whatever." Can you give us a little -- can you expound on that? There`s a picture of you with Jodi Arias in, obviously, happier times, before you realized the type of person she was. Can you expound a little bit on that?

DENNY: That picture makes my -- gives me the chills.

You know what? Jodi, I think she had the sense of her ability to use her sex appeal and that type of energy to get her way with men. And she used it. And I remember seeing that very clearly on her. It was just, like, she put it out there.

And I think, because of Travis being where he was from and his, just his experience in the past, he wasn`t used to that. And he got -- he got succumbed to it. She was definitely a masterful temptress, if you will. And I think she used that to her detriment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And talking with all of Travis`s friends, when they`d say, well, she was a flirt, they also said, Dave, that he would flirt with an 82-year-old woman. Having a flirtatious personality is very different from being a deviant. Those are two totally deferent things.

HALL: Absolutely. And he was a flirt. Everybody knew Travis was a flirt. But when you talked to his previous girlfriends that were on the stand, you`ll see that, you know, one of them even testified they dated for an entire year, and the most aggressive he became was he grabbed her butt.

And Jodi just moved a lot faster in that relationship than Travis was used to moving with girls.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. What I found, researching my book, is that he was rather inexperienced when it came to women and sex, so the exact opposite of the way Jodi Arias portrayed him, as this man who was just sexually obsessed.

What I learned was that she was the one who was sexually obsessed. Travis told his best friend, Taylor Sorel, one of his best friends, that she was a nymphomaniac. So who`s zooming who here?

And why is it that Alyce LaViolette didn`t do all that homework to find out what the other side of the story was?

Stay right there. We`re just getting started. We`re taking your calls. And we`re going to talk about Jodi`s latest tweets. Yes, she`s tweeting again.


ARIAS: I`d like to start a book club or a reading group.

(via phone): Seriously think about having sex with you every day.

JUAN MARTINEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I thought you said your relationship with Mr. Alexander was very stressful?

ARIAS (on camera): Some of the sex wasn`t.

(singing): This is sun shining.

(speaking): Pretty much they just argued.


ARIAS: About whether or not to kill me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For what reason?

ARIAS: Because I`m a witness.




LAVIOLETTE: All I could think about is if it was my family member and I don`t want to have to say things like that, because it was so terrible to me, that his family had to listen to that, but it was out there. It was -- I had so much evidence on it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that, again, domestic violence expert, Alyce LaViolette. And she was really a big part of today`s hearing, because the defense is saying they want cameras thrown out for this retrial, because people like Alyce LaViolette felt so threatened by the first trial, by the initial trial, that they don`t want to come back now.

Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent, you did this incredible exclusive interview. Here`s what I don`t understand about her. I don`t understand how she could say she feels bad for Travis Alexander`s family, and then at the same time, co-sign what so many people have regarded and I`ve concluded in my book, certainly, were just a series of lies by Jodi Arias. I mean, does she have sort of a blind spot when it comes to Jodi Arias? Did you ask her about that?

ROWLANDS: Well, I asked her about the lies. And I said, it`s hard for people to believe anything that Jodi says because of the lies. And she -- her point was, "Well, yes, she lied about everything, until she started telling me the truth." And she pointed to other people to do the same thing about less things than murder, and saying that that`s a self-defense mechanism. And then once she started telling truth, in the end, that she believes her. She believes her version of the story. And you can choose to believe her or not.

The thing that, you know, her point was, "You can disagree with me, and I totally accept people are going to disagree with me," but she had a problem with the assault that she took from folks who didn`t even know her, who were making death threats, et cetera, et cetera. That was her beef. She doesn`t care if you don`t believe her -- agree with her. She just didn`t like the position that she was put in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree 100 percent: people shouldn`t be threatened. I mean, I`ve received threats; Nancy Grace has received threats. This is part of this whole trial. It`s not just one way. It`s going various ways. A lot of it`s going around. And certainly, I agree with that.

But I still -- I`ve got to go back out to my Lion`s Den here. Wendy Murphy, there`s a missing piece to the puzzle in her logic. I mean, she says she feels sorry for Travis Alexander`s family, but yet, she`s backing a woman who says that Travis was a pedophile. We know that`s not true. There`s no evidence to justify that. Somebody who said that Travis abused her, broke her finger, and all of her lies have essentially been deconstructed. And yet she maintains this position.

MURPHY: You call it a missing piece to the puzzle. The puzzle isn`t even in her room. She is -- look, the fact that she says out loud that she believes Jodi is proof that she`s missing her own puzzle pieces.

And believe me, you know she said she bought Jodi`s story. Let`s tell the truth about it. Actually, Jodi bought Alyce LaViolette`s story, if you know what I mean. Cha-ching. She got paid as an expert to say the crap she said, and the fact that she`s still saying it is also part of the strategy. She`s still helping, for cash, to make this whole mess go away, because she`s being paid to help the whole mess go away.

You know, there`s no question she`s also selling herself down the river. Not only will no one hire her because she sounds so stupid, but, seriously, she`s acting like a wimpy dink, and this is a woman who`s helping empower victims of domestic abuse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. First of all, I don`t know if she`s being paid...

MURPHY: ... herself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know if she`s being...

MURPHY: She`s not even standing up for herself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to just set the record straight. I don`t know if she`s being paid anymore, but Danny Cevallos, you`re the defense attorney on this panel. She did get paid plenty. I`m saying anymore.

I mean, really, what`s the point? If you are going to stick up for Jodi Arias, then testify in the next phase, but she says she doesn`t want to do that, because of the threats. And yet she continues to speak out on her behalf, and buy, and co-sign her lies. Let`s just call it what it is. They`re lies. OK?

Travis Alexander didn`t own a gun. Jodi Arias claims that she pulled a gun on her because he lunged at her. But she had previously said there were no bullets in the gun. So why would you pull a gun on somebody in self-defense that had no bullets in it? The reason she said there were no bullets in the gun is that there were no bullets found in the house. So she had to explain that.

I mean, it`s so obvious a lie. How can this woman just sit there and play the victim?

CEVALLOS: That was one question, Jane?


CEVALLOS: No. 1, all experts get paid. All experts get paid. So you can`t look at it that way.

No. 2, everyone`s acting like Jodi Arias was acquitted and ran for city council and got elected. She was found guilty. The system worked in the sense that, if you don`t believe LaViolette, then neither did the jury. Jodi is entitled to have -- to put her best foot forward, her best expert that she can, that she pays, because all experts get paid, and she`s entitled to have that same expert at the sentencing hearing. That`s the way the system works. And we hold her up, and if she doesn`t pass muster, then the jury doesn`t believe her.

But we don`t want to jump on her for taking a position. Because the next step is attacking defense attorneys for defending these people. And we all know constitutionally, we need those people doing that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ted Rowlands, you wanted to jump in?

ROWLANDS: Yes, just to jump on the same vein here. To be outraged by Alyce LaViolette`s opinion is ridiculous. This is a capital murder case. She`s an expert witness. She has her opinion, and we would want that.

We don`t want to be killing people, Jane, and I don`t think you do either, unless we`re pretty darned sure that they deserve it and they have -- you know, Alyce LaViolette is a piece of the puzzle that we see in every single capital case and frankly this jury did believe her, that`s why they didn`t kill Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. I`ve never said I want to kill anybody. I`m an extreme believer in nonviolence and that`s why I`m a vegan. I don`t even wear leather shoes. I`m not suggesting violence towards anyone.

All I`m on is a search for the truth. I do respect the truth. And I think this whole case is a cautionary tale about the dangers of lying and the blowback that occurs and the devastation that occurs in so many lives. Jodi Arias` family, Travis Alexander`s family, Alyce LaViolette -- lying destroys lives.

Stay right there. We`ll be right back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you believe he was alive?

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: I didn`t know, but I didn`t think he was, because I didn`t -- no, I thought he was not alive at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there a part of you that hoped he was?

ARIAS: Yes. Of course.




JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You`re the one that did this, right?

ARIAS: He attacked me, and I defended myself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is very actively writing letters back to the public that has been writing her.

MARTINEZ: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: The court is not prepared to set a trial date today.

MARTINEZ: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?

ARIAS: I don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the woman who had a media tour after she was convicted.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, domestic violence expert for the defense, Alyce LaViolette, is crying and she is controversial because she accepted Jodi`s version of events, that Jodi was a meek, vulnerable woman, who was lured into the Mormon faith by Travis, a corrupting role model. Let`s listen to Alyce talk on the stand.


ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DEFENSE EXPERT: He challenges her to read the book of Mormon and then he tells her that he`s horny and they have oral sex. She performs oral sex on him.


LAVIOLETTE: In a parking lot.

WILLMOTT: In a car?

LAVIOLETTE: Oh, yes, in a car, in a parking lot. She said she was uncomfortable, because she thought it was too fast, too soon, but she didn`t exactly know how to stop it.

For many young women, it is very difficult to say no, especially if they`re attracted to someone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And in our "Lion`s Den tonight, two dear friends of the victim, Travis Alexander -- Josh Denne, and Dave Hall. Josh, as you hear Alyce LaViolette, she is repeating, essentially, exactly what Jodi Arias said, but there is absolutely no independent corroboration that it went -- it happened that way except from Jodi`s own mouth.

JOSH DENNE, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Jane, first of all, thank you so much. I`m not usually the biggest fan of media. I don`t think it typically gives always the best viewpoint, but you have done such a great job of really getting to the truth. And I heard Alyce talking about, yes, she`s a liar, but she was a liar until she told the truth. Look, you`re either a liar or you`re honest. There no in between. Jodi is a liar. She just told enough lies to find one that Alyce bought into and she just used variations of that to make sure that she proved her point, whatever point that was, that she was trying to get into the soft spot of Alyce.

First of all, I think Alyce probably is not thinking that well. I question her intelligence. I question her ability to read people because you know, Jodi, clearly, after all of this evidence, for her to now say, well I still believe it, is absolutely absurd. I can`t even comprehend it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Dave Hall, I want to get your reaction to those who say, well, this is the way it goes. There are going to be experts for the defense and they are going to back up whatever the defendant says on the witness stand and kind of deal with it. That`s our criminal justice system.

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, and they`re absolutely right. I mean you think about that, if you`re willing to pay $250 to $300 an hour for an expert to show up and back up your customer`s or your client`s, you know, version of the facts, of course there`s going to be someone that`s going to compromise their values in the justice system, and Alyce LaToilette (ph) more than happy to sell her soul to the devil and jump in bed with Jodi Arias and couch her on how the facts really came out. But there`s absolutely no evidence to back up either of those stories.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I know why you make the pun, Dave that you also agree, nobody wants her to be threatened, that`s not what we`re about. We think that`s wrong. That`s below the belt. I mean, it`s unnecessary. But this is a free country and we can critique people who take the witness stand and back up the word of a pathological liar and that`s, I think, a valid conversation that we can have.

I want to go to Dr. Raj, author of "You are More Than That". You are a fantastic psychiatrist, and actually I was talking to you, promoting my book, you were interviewing me for the book, and I thought some of your insights were incredible.

And you made this point that I want to ask you more about. You said the reason why Jodi felt the need to murder Travis was because her obsession was so intense that the only way she could get over it was to get him off the planet. Elaborate a little bit on that.

DR. RAJIV JUNEJA, AUTHOR, "YOU ARE MORE THAN THAT": Well, let`s back up for a second. So, first of all, you know, I`ve never sat with Jodi, but one thing we know for sure was that she had been diagnosed by the defense psychological evaluator or the forensic psychologist with borderline personality disorder.

Now, so what exactly is borderline personality disorder? These are individuals whose emotional states essentially go -- they live down at the emotional end. So at one end, you have an emotional mind and the other end, you have a logical mind. So they`re very reactive. They can become very emotionally overwhelmed.

Now I`ve sat with thousands of people and one thing we know is that they can become very dependent. And once they -- somehow that dependence is lost there can be an intense, intense feeling of despair such that they regress. So what happens, essentially, is that the individual regresses.

Think about when we`re looking at a child. They can be impulsive. They can become violent. They can throw tantrums. Well, this is essentially what happens when a severe borderline individual is stressed. And in that moment, basically, regresses, and all of this, all of this behavior comes out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, this was a murderous tantrum.

Stay right there. We`ll be right back.


ROWLANDS: Why don`t you want to go back?

LAVIOLETTE: Threats to my life, threats to my family. My family doesn`t want me to go back.




STEPHEN ALEXANDER, BROTHER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I thought my brother was bulletproof.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER, SISTER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Travis was the one that got us through the pain and the hardship.

STEPHEN ALEXANDER: He was unbreakable.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: He was our strength.

STEPHEN ALEXANDER: Who on earth would want to do this to him?

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: Losing Travis has completely destroyed the overall health of our family.

STEPHEN ALEXANDER: For what reasons? Why him?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias in the Estrella jail tonight. She is allowed outside of her 12-by-7 foot cell for one hour a day with no access to TV or radio.

Straight out to "The Lion`s Den", let`s do a little round robin. What, Kinsey Schofield, blogger, you`ve been in court, what do you think is going to happen on September 16th when they come back again?

KINSEY SCHOFIELD, BLOGGER: Well, I think Judge Stephens is definitely going to have to consider looking at those potential jurors` Twitter feeds and possibly even blocking them from having access to Twitter throughout the trial. You can get tweets sent directly to your phone, and God forbid somebody finds out that one of the jurors`, you know, finds their Twitter handle because somebody knows somebody else. And people are tweeting their opinions to this juror. It`s a possibility. It could happen.

And as far as Alyce LaViolette is concerned, I think that there`s the classic line, you are who you associate with, and these people loathe Jodi Arias, so obviously they`re going to loathe Alyce LaViolette and I don`t understand how she thought that she was going to get any different of a reaction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that`s true. There`s an old saying in Spanish, I remember, "Tell me who you walk with, and I`ll tell you who you are.

All right. Jordan Rose, when is this retrial going to get under way, if ever?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Seems like if ever. I think when they come back in September, the judge will set a date, and I would have to imagine she`ll give the attorneys 30 days to prepare and then we`ll be back in trail.

I would hope that she doesn`t ban the cameras from the courtroom. I think this issue has been put to courts all over the country for a long, long time and they have not disregarded the First Amendment. They`ve allowed the public to see the trial. And if there is a real fear that witnesses won`t testify, then they can protect them. They can put -- they can have their voices altered, they don`t have to show their identities on camera. That`s normal, it`s done all over the place. It could be done here if that is absolutely necessary.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy -- go ahead.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, a couple of things. A couple of things -- first of all, because there have already been cameras in the court and Jodi has exploited them, I think the judge would be hard- pressed to agree that she`s now suddenly going to suffer prejudice. I don`t see the judge agreeing.

And by the way, the defense could argue on appeal the fact that the judge changed her position on cameras midstream violates her due process rights. I mean it`s just crazy to think that the judge would change that rule at this point.

I hope we still see the cameras. As much as I don`t want to see Jodi`s face or hear the crazy sex talk again, I think we will see her face and hear the sex talk.

The other thing is, in terms of what might happen next, defense attorneys in capital cases have the judge by the cojones, or in this case, by the ovaries, because they know that the judge is not going to say, "Sorry. Too late to file that motion, because when death is the question, judges let all kinds of stuff happen that they might otherwise say, "You can`t do that. It`s too late."

So I`m worried that we`re going to see more delays.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll get to the other panelists on the other side.

When is the retrial going to start? When are we going to finally get closure on this case and figure out what the final chapter is? Stay right there.


LAVIOLETTE: I had thought about it a while. I woke up and I was crying and I was shaking. And I`m not like that. I mean, I have never had anxiety in my life.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to

Little Girl -- you are a pearl, Little Girl. And Zeus and Lucky, you are very plucky and I think you are good friends, too. Scooter -- you`re a hooter. Maybe that was a bad rhyme, guys. All right, Daisy, you make me crazy.



ARIAS: He crossed the room and he started shaking me and he said (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sick of you. He was screaming real loud and some of his spit got on my face. He was spitting on me but as he was talking. And he body slammed me on the floor at the foot of his bed.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to "The Lion`s Den". I want to start with Danny Cevallos, you`re a criminal defense attorney, how is she if she takes the stand again in this retrial going to repeat 18 days of, well, untruths, exaggerations. I mean Meryl Streep couldn`t memorize that much material and spit it out without making a mistake.

CEVALLOS: It`s going to be difficult, Jane, but if anyone has shown us that she can maybe not charm a jury but charm people or is persuasive, it`s Jodi Arias. Her entire life is a tale of sort of talking her way through problems. So if anybody can make an affect on this jury it might be her. But then again, the converse could happen. Another jury could be just as offended and find her just as incredible. And you`re absolutely right in that there is now more testimony, more prior inconsistent statements.

It is axiomatic that telling the same story twice no matter how truthful you are, you may have some inconsistencies. So when you`re lying, lying and your pants are on fire, then it`s highly likely there`s going to be even more than we saw the first time around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman --

CEVALLOS: So she`s got a real challenge if she takes that stand.


JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, she has a huge challenge. I mean it`s hard to keep track of all these lies. She couldn`t even keep track of all of the lies during the initial trial, Danny.

CEVALLOS: Exactly.

LEIBERMAN: So, of course, she`s not going to be able to tell any sort of consistent story even when it`s consistent with lies. What I want to hear from her is I want to hear some sense of remorse. We have heard zero remorse during the trial, in the TV interviews after the trial, through Twitter, her tweets, through a friend. We have seen and heard absolutely no remorse and that`s what I want to hear.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kinsey, that`s because she doesn`t feel remorse in my opinion.

DR. RAJ: Well that`s right, Jane --


SCHOFIELD: I don`t think she feels remorse either. She`s smug. She`s disrespectful. And the fact that she`s able to tweet is offensive. We have got to figure out a way to make it to where people who are convicted murderers cannot sit and verbally vomit all over the Internet.


LEIBERMAN: And here`s the other thing that I don`t understand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say -- I want to say this. I don`t know that we should rob everybody of their rights because Jodi Arias does something bad. I mean somebody told me that a long time ago, don`t make a generic rule that covers the entire world, 300 million people potentially and deprive all of us of our rights because one jerk misuses something. Go ahead, Jon Leiberman.

LEIBERMAN: One thing I don`t understand -- back to Alyce LaViolette. And look, I don`t believe in threats. I think it`s absolutely horrible that she had the threats. But she says she`s afraid to testify in this next phase but yet somehow she`s not afraid to come and do the interview with Ted -- the good interview that Ted did. It doesn`t make any sense. Why did she come out now then --

MURPHY: Can I say --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, go ahead -- I agree with you Jon. Go ahead Wendy.

MURPHY: Let me agree with Jon. Jon took the words out of my mouth. I was absolutely going to go there. It doesn`t make sense and I don`t think it`s true. And if she`s really been threatened, where is the criminal investigation? Did she report it to police?

All I heard her say was somebody called her fat and hoped she choked on a chicken bone. Excuse me -- as if that`s a reason not to go to court. Look what happened to witnesses who testified favorably for George Zimmerman. Did they get all wimpy and lily-livered, no.

And this is a woman who`s supposedly a fighter for women`s strength. Are you kidding me? This is purely strategy and it`s bad. And it`s not working. It`s making things worse. Alyce, grow a pair or shut up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well -- we`ve got to leave it right there. Wendy, you always have a way with words and a turn of the phrase.

Stay right there. We`ll be right back.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back tomorrow night 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Nancy Grace is next.