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DiMaggio`s Sister: Hannah is `Trouble`

Aired August 28, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, escalating outrage over cruel and shocking comments from the sister of accused double murderer, kidnapper Jim DiMaggio. She now claims her brother is innocent and was protecting 16- year-old Hannah Anderson, the very teenager cops say he kidnapped after murdering, brutally murdering her mom and brother. But will her blame-the- victim campaign backfire?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

Tonight, the killer`s/kidnapper`s sister says she warned her brother about Hannah, and says there`s something investigators are missing in this case.


LORA DIMAGGIO, SISTER OF JIM DIMAGGIO: I said, "You need to watch out for that one. She`s trouble."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was under extreme, extreme duress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The user asked, "Did you want to go with DiMaggio?"

She replied, "No, not at all."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He and I had a very close relationship over the years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspect James Lee DiMaggio was shot and killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Why didn`t you run?"

"He would have killed me."

DIMAGGIO: The Hannah Anderson that I saw is certainly not the girl that stayed in my home three weeks prior to them disappearing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This guy, Jim DiMaggio, was a close family friend of the Andersons, until he betrayed them brutally. Cops say he viciously tortured and murdered Hannah`s mom and her 8-year-old brother, Ethan, then set the house on fire and then kidnapped the beautiful 16-year-old cheerleader, whisking her more than 1,000 miles away into the Idaho wilderness, where they were spotted, he was gunned down and Hannah was rescued.

Well, now DiMaggio`s sister, Lora -- her -- she sparked outrage when she demanded the DNA from Hannah and her dead sibling to compare to her brother, suggesting he, her brother, may be Hannah and Ethan`s real father. Can you imagine that?

Well, she`s backed off that claim, but now she`s lashing out on another front, accusing Hannah of something else. Lora says her brother was a father figure to Hannah. He was quiet, dependable, and she says incapable of the hideous, vicious crime cops say they are sure he committed. Listen to what this sister told Piers Morgan.


DIMAGGIO: I remember very vividly telling my brother, "She`s trouble. She`s going to" -- I said, "You need to watch out for that one; she`s trouble."

In my heart of hearts, I think that Hannah perhaps got herself into a situation that she couldn`t get herself out of, and I do believe that my brother gave his life to protect her.

I miss him very much very much. He was the center of my world.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What the heck does that mean, he`s protecting Hannah? Protect Hannah from what? Spit it out, lady.

Hannah`s mom was apparently beaten to death with a crowbar. Her little son, Ethan, was also murdered. And this woman is presenting this man, her brother, who cops say did these hideous acts, as some kind of hero. Are you kidding me? Is this sister in complete and utter denial?

What do you think about her claims? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.

Tonight, in the Lion`s Den, we have an amazing panel, including well- known criminal defense attorney and radio host Adam Thompson and noted psychotherapist Tiffanie Henry-Davis.

But first, straight out to our very special guest, Hannah Anderson`s grandfather, Chris.

Sir, thank you for joining us. I know you want a chance to respond to this sister of the killer`s ugly and vague accusations. She seems to be insinuating that your granddaughter did something, but she`s not really spitting it out, except to say that she warned her brother about Hannah. I`m sure you`re upset about this. How upset are you and what do you have to say in response?

CHRIS, HANNAH`S GRANDFATHER (via phone): Well, I kind of feel sorry for her, because I think she`s got some major mental that, you know, she just can`t accept. You know, for her to say that her brother gave his life to protect my granddaughter is just totally ridiculous. So I just don`t understand. But I guess with the mental illness that seems to be going from father to son, it just kept going.


CHRIS: It`s just utterly ridiculous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this hurting Hannah? You`re her granddad. She`s been through an unimaginable nightmare. Authorities have said she is unequivocally the victim and nothing more than the victim. The utter victim in this case.

Cops aren`t suggesting that she had anything to do with anything. This must be -- I mean, just like a one-two punch. She loses her mother and brother, and now this woman comes out of the woodwork and is waging some kind of campaign against her.

CHRIS: Yes. It`s ridiculous. I mean, her asking for the DNA test for my daughter, saying that Jim was the father, would be like me coming across saying I want to have a DNA on her children to see if Jim was the father. I mean, it`s just utterly ridiculous. If she`s trying to make it into a book deal or something, I don`t know what her plan is. But it`s just, you know, sickening.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And your granddaughter, how`s she holding up?

CHRIS: She`s holding up. She`s holding up. She`s a young kid, and I don`t think it`s set in. I really don`t think she realizes everything that`s gone on, because everybody deals with tragedies in their own way. And I don`t know if she`s totally blocking this out, but I have seen her break down, so I know she knows. But it`s just everybody deals with tragedy in their own way. And you know, being a young -- I`m going to say child, because that`s how she`s dealing with it. You know? So...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My last question, is she aware of this woman saying these things about her?

CHRIS: No, no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. That`s good; that`s good. I think it`s very, very wise of you, sir, to keep that from her. She doesn`t need to be tortured again psychologically with these horrific and vague accusations.

And if you`d stand by, Chris, I want to bring in our panel.

But let`s recap here. DiMaggio`s sister says her brother brought Hannah over to her house just three weeks before the murder/kidnapping. And she told Piers Morgan that Hannah was much different than the girl we all saw weeping on "The Today Show" after her rescue.

Listen to this.


DIMAGGIO: I know that the Hannah Anderson that I saw a few nights ago on the TV is certainly not the girl that stayed in my home three weeks prior to them disappearing. They came into my home. I was very gracious. She was you know -- didn`t say thank you once. She had on extremely heavy eye makeup. Just wasn`t -- wasn`t the -- just didn`t strike me as -- I don`t know. I don`t want to bash anyone. It`s certainly not my intent.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I`ve got to wonder if she`s taking advantage of the fact that Hannah did show up here in sunglasses to go to a fundraiser a couple of days after she was rescued. And she also turned to social media and answered questions from strangers. So what? She`s a 16- year-old girl. That`s how 16-year-old girls react. They do go to social media.

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. What really angers me about this is that the sister`s accusations are vague, but they`re very sinister. They`re implying that Hannah is not telling the truth and is more involved than she`s suggesting. But she`s not spitting out what she`s accusing Hannah of. It`s outrageous. Who do I throw it to? Give it to me.



DAVIS-HENRY: Did you see how the sister backpedaled at the end of that? Like she wanted to blame Hannah, but then she backed off of it and said, "Well, I don`t want to really throw anybody under the bus or say anything." She was doing it.

And -- and the sad part is, I think that she is grieving; she is looking for answers. She wants to blame someone other than her brother. But the evidence shows that her brother is exactly the one to blame. The last thing she should be doing on television is blaming the victim. It`s despicable.

ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know what this evidence is, though. I agree with her. And I haven`t seen any evidence. There`s no motive. Why did her -- why did her brother do this? Why would he have murdered these people? I just haven`t seen any evidence to indicate this was, one, a kidnapping...

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s still under investigation. It`s an open investigation, so at this point we`re not going to see all the evidence. As she can do -- I`m talking about Jim DiMaggio`s sister. She can hire a private investigator.

But I have a problem with her trying to sexualize a teenager, saying because she was wearing heavy eye makeup and because she`s a teenager, because she`s attractive that -- somehow insinuating that she was responsible for this, she was some Lolita, she was some seductress. And that`s absolutely unacceptable in this day and age for anyone to say that about a teenager.


What does heavy makeup have to do...


DR. JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Heavy makeup doesn`t have to do with anything. It`s like how you were just saying, Jane. She`s making all these ambiguous accusations, but they`re not really going anywhere at the same time. They are pointed. She`s trying to do damage to this family.

And I think it just shows how deep the deception goes. If she and her own brother, if she doesn`t even know him, doesn`t even know the kind of person he actually is, that just shows you how deep the deception went. And I know she`s looking for answers. She might be a victim, too, in that way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what I`m thinking. That`s what I`m thinking, Judy.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably he snowed her just as much as he snowed everyone else. No one expected this behavior from Jim DiMaggio. And the sister even, the person closest to him, didn`t expect it either. So I think he was really good at conning everyone.


ADAM THOMPSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If you -- if you take that last point that you just made...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s exactly what they do...


THOMPSON: If you take that last point that you just made, the system may or may not have really known this side of her brother, but look at the big picture. If she really didn`t know this side of her brother, she only knew him as a hardworking good guy that helped other people, including Hannah and Hannah`s family. All he did in the past was help this girl, including in the past when she had problems with her mother, he stepped in to resolve their problems.

So just like Hannah wants closure and her family wants closure now, you can assume that the sister wants the very same thing. And what`s wrong with that? She wants some answers. Why would my brother have done this when he showed...


GOMEZ: It`s an open investigation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me -- let me suggest what`s wrong with that. A beautiful young girl -- a young girl, OK? -- has lost her mother to a very violent crime, and her kid brother to a very violent crime. Thank God her grandfather, Chris, and her family is keeping her away from this information. But you know how kids get on the Internet. if she`s going to see this, this could truly devastate her psychologically. We have to protect Hannah. She`s a victim here.

And remember what her friend said, that this guy had a crush on her, OK? He had a crush on her. He was a dirty old man who`s hanging around her. What 50-something guy, 40-something -- I`ll get his exact age -- hangs around and shuttles a child he`s not related to, to cheerleading practice, and who`s -- somebody with a motive, a motive to be around her, OK? That`s what it`s all about. He wanted her.

Stay right there.

Crystal, I know you`re hanging on. We`ll get to you on the other side.


DIMAGGIO: Where is the evidence?

PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: But if it wasn`t him, who was it?

DIMAGGIO: I don`t know. That`s what I want to find out.

MORGAN: He`s the guy who took Hannah to the middle of nowhere. What other explanation do you have?

DIMAGGIO: Do you believe everything a 16-year-old tells you?




DIMAGGIO: In my heart of hearts, I think that Hannah perhaps got herself into a situation that she couldn`t get herself out of, and I do believe that my brother gave his life to protect her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: DiMaggio`s sister, reportedly cut out of his $112,000 life insurance. Instead, this killer -- that`s what cops are saying -- Jim DiMaggio left all of the money to the paternal grandmother of Hannah Anderson.

Listen to the killer`s sister tell Piers Morgan there`s no way that her brother, Jim DiMaggio, was capable of this hideous double murder/kidnapping.


DIMAGGIO: The first thing that she went over, the booby-trap here at the house. I`ve known my brother for years. He had trouble setting his water thermostat on his -- on his Jacuzzi. I`m not saying that he didn`t have any part in it. But what I`d like to know is I`d like to have factual evidence of what exactly his part in it was, and when I have that evidence, I`ll go -- I`ll go from there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the Lion`s Den. What on earth is she suggesting? I mean, Evangeline Gomez, criminal defense attorney, she`s saying, oh, OK, her brother didn`t know how to set booby traps, but she`s not saying -- it`s like finish your sentence, lady. You`re obviously casting aspersions on Hannah, but you`re not saying it flat out, which to me says she wants -- she wants other people to connect the dots and draw conclusions, but she has the safety of saying, "I really didn`t say that. You can`t accuse me of pointing the finger at her," even though she is.

GOMEZ: You`re absolutely right, Jane. That`s a very good observation. The issue here is, if she`s looking for answers -- and every family member is in this type of situation, I`m sure -- she can hire a private investigator or wait until the investigation is closed. Right now, it`s still an ongoing investigation.

For someone to come out and make these statements is extremely irresponsible and insensitive to the victim and to the victim`s family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. Ashleigh Merchant, I am perplexed that you think that this is OK or...

MERCHANT: I`m not saying that it`s OK. I don`t think that she should victimize Hannah Anderson. I`m certainly not saying that. What I`m saying is it`s OK for a sister who knows her brother one way and believes her brother was a good person -- she believes that. The person she knows she thinks was good. I think it`s OK for her to say, "I want some answers. I want to see some proof. I haven`t seen proof that my brother is the monster that he`s being made out in the media."

And I think that that`s reasonable for her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m looking at that photo that we just saw of them together. I mean, why is this man hanging out with this 16-year-old girl? They are not related. Despite her suggestion that they might be.

I want to go back to Chris, Hannah Anderson`s grandfather. You know, this is an absurd suggestion that, what, this -- your granddaughter, a 16- year-old cheerleader, might be able to come up with booby traps and -- and explosive devices. I mean, it`s beyond ludicrous, but this appears to be the suggestion that this woman is making.

CHRIS: Yes. She`s trying to cover for her brother, and my question is probably to answer a lot of the questions is where is the autopsy on this guy? Let`s see what drugs were in his system, since she`s saying he wasn`t on methamphetamines and that. Why don`t we have an autopsy to say why he -- you know, why he did it or what he was on that made him do this and lose all the weight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I -- oh, he lost a lot of weight? Oh, that`s interesting.

CHRIS: Oh, yes. He`s lost -- according to everybody, a lot of weight in the last six months, which is typical of a meth user. And the stuff he did to my daughter and grandson would be typical of a meth user. So where is the autopsy? I`m sure she`s already had him created, but there has to be an autopsy somewhere. There should be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all, I cannot confirm that he`s using methamphetamine. When I see somebody lose a lot of weight, particularly when they`re infatuated, when they`re absolutely infatuated with somebody, they want to look good for that person, and they lose weight. That I can say with assurance, because I`ve done it.

Now, Lora and Jim DiMaggio did have a troubled childhood. Their father was a drug addict, supposedly a heavy meth user who killed himself while allegedly high. And Piers Morgan asked Lora DiMaggio about rumors that her brother had a drug problem, which we cannot confirm. Listen to her answer.


DIMAGGIO: My father was on drugs, and my father was a drug addict for years. My entire life that I knew him, he was on drugs. As soon as -- after he left the military, and we`re not just talking about, you know, marijuana or something like that. He was, you know, on some very heavy drugs. My brother was not a meth addict.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, straight out to the Lion`s Den. She denies it. She says her brother was not a meth addict. Dr. Judy Ho, the father was, DiMaggio`s father was. And there was also an anniversary element to this entire kidnapping/murder, because the father died on the anniversary of when this guy was gunned down by snipers, by law enforcement snipers after the murder/kidnapping.

HO: Right, Jane. And didn`t the father also engage in some kidnapping of a teen in his years? I mean, I feel like there`s a huge aspect of social modeling here.

If his father was a drug addict, as well, he may have picked up on some of those cues early on, and this is his coping skill when things go awry.

And but Jane, I think what you said earlier, when you have a crush on somebody, you get invested in your looks, too. And so whether he was on drugs or not, I think the fact that he did have a crush on Hannah may have also been an impetus for him to try to lose weight and look good for her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we`re going to get to Dr. Tiffanie Henry- Davis -- Davis-Henry...

DAVIS-HENRY: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... on the other side. And our caller, Crystal. Stay right there. I mean, this is fascinating.

And coming up, outrage spreads as a 49-year-old teacher gets just 31 days in jail after repeatedly raping a 14-year-old student who later committed suicide. And it gets worse. You won`t believe what the judge said about the young teenage victim.



HANNAH ANDERSON, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: The phone calls weren`t phone calls, they were texts, because he was picking me up from cheer camp, and he didn`t know the address or, like, where I was. So I had to tell him the address and tell him that I was going to be in the gym and not in front of the school, just so he knew where to come get me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that is Hannah responding to questions about why records indicated that she and Jim called each other about 13 times on the day that this horror unfolded. And she`s giving an explanation.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Crystal, Iowa, thanks for your patience. Your question or thought?

CALLER: I have a question about Jim`s sister. Have they considered having her undergo a mental evaluation? Because she goes from one extreme to the next, from accusing him of being the father to, like, her being a bad person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tiffanie Davis-Henry, doctor and psychotherapist, take it away.

DAVIS-HENRY: Well, I don`t even know, because she`s not part of this case and part of the investigation, considering her for a mental evaluation doesn`t necessarily seem warranted, but it`s an interesting question. I`m glad you brought it up.

Because what I`ve been thinking all along is that there could be some sort of mental decompensation with Jim DiMaggio. I`ve often thought that his behavior seemed to have -- he seemed to be decompensating, which could explain the weight loss. If he was depressed. If he was in love, maybe, Jane, but also if he was going through some type of psychotic break. It`s a little late for that in terms of years, but it happens, where individuals have a psychosis, and really don`t think about eating and really could care less about food. Their focus and concentrating on the object that they`re fixated so much on, which seems to be Hannah.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to show the picture of Hannah skipping at the memorial, because some people have pointed to that as odd behavior. And we`ve got that video, if we could pull it up.

Listen, she`s 16 years old. I have a confession to make. When I was in high school, I went to a funeral, somebody who had passed away in my school, and I giggled, because I didn`t understand what was going on, and I was nervous. And this young lady looks nervous, and yes, she`s smiling. She doesn`t understand.

Remember Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, who wrote the five stages of grief?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Denial is the first stage. And when you`re in denial, you -- Dr. Judy Ho, you -- you act like nothing`s wrong.

HO: Absolutely, Jane. And everybody has a different way of going about grief, right? And so people move through those five stages that you just mentioned at different paces.

Hannah could be in denial for months or even years. That is very possible. And so to say that her behavior was unusual, well, what`s the comparison? There really is no norm in this situation.

DAVIS-HENRY: You know what I noticed -- you know what I noticed in that video, though, Jane? I noticed that Hannah seemed to be -- and we talked about it, I think, here before and certainly on Dr. -- Dr. Drew, is that she seemed to be a very grownup, parentified kind of child, where she felt like she needed to take care of other people. She`s talked about her dad a lot. She`s hugging everyone. She`s bringing other people over. She`s hugging the baby.

She looks like someone who feels like she needs to take care of everyone else and really isn`t worried so much about herself. That`s typical in terms of grief, too, because she doesn`t want to feel the gravity of those feelings that are probably going to devastate her when she really does feel it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And let me diagnose the sister. She`s in denial. She`s co-dependent. She`s probably justified, rationalized, covered up and cleaned up her brother`s messes for years, not even knowing that she`s a co-dependent. I believe she needs to get help for her co- dependency. That`s my diagnosis. But then again, I`m not a shrink.

Up next, a teacher -- this is a wild story -- convicted of raping a 14-year-old student, is sentenced to 30 days, and the nation is outraged, with what the judge said.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A former high-school teacher in Billings, Montana, will serve just 30 days for raping a 14-year-old female student who later committed suicide. Stacey Rambold was sentenced to 15 years in prison with all but 31 days of that term suspended.

The judge said the 14-year-old victim acted, quote, "older than her chronological age" and was "as much in control of the situation" as the teacher.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A former high school teacher in Billings, Montana will serve just 30 days for raping a 14-year-old female student.

Stacey Dean Rambold convicted of raping a 14-year-old student more than once.

The judge suspended almost his entire sentence, because he claimed the 14-year-old girl -- listen to this -- was quote, "as much in control of the situation as he was". The judge said the 14-year-old victim acted quote, "older than her chronological age".

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My faith in the justice system is gone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight. Moments ago, a judge responds to outrage against him. He sentenced a Montana teacher, that guy right there, to 30 days in jail for raping a 14-year-old student who later killed herself, ok? The prosecution wanted ten years behind bars.

Sparking even more anger was what the judge said, ok. This 49-year- old high school teacher, Stacey Rambold, pleaded guilty to having sex with this 14-year-old child Cherice. That`s right, 49 versus 14. The judge had the nerve to say, and I`m quoting here, "It`s probably not the kind of rape most people think about. It was not a violent, forcible, beat the victim rape," end quote.

So what does this teacher do? Well, court documents, and I`ve got them right here, they show that he seduced her into their secret relationship, telling Cherice that a hug turned him on. All right. Then he said that he first kissed her after giving her a ride in his car. That he took her to a motel. They hopped in the back seat of his car. He took all of her clothes off except her bra. On other occasions they made out in his bedroom and even in his office at school.

Now, I can`t actually give you the disturbing details of what exactly happened. But the documents describe actual sex acts. This judge originally implied it`s no big deal. Well, guess what? The girl killed herself. That`s a big deal in my book. And her mom says the judge`s shocking, insensitive comments have caused her to lose all faith in the criminal justice system.


AULIEA HANLON, MOTHER OF CHERICE: Listening to the judge, he was going to pretty much just walk away, no consequences. Any number would have been good. Any -- a year, you know? But this is a joke, it`s a joke. I`ve seen his signed confession. He did it. He said "Hey, I did it."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to "The Lion`s Den" -- Oh, my gosh, Dr. Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychotherapist, this is the same old "she asked for it, blame the victim" thing that rape victims have been hearing since time immemorial.

DR. TIFFANIE DAVIS-HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: And the sad part is, when victims hear this, it makes them not want to come forward. It makes them say, you know what, what`s the use in saying anything about it if all he`s going to get is a slap on the wrist for 30 days. Why should I put myself through all of the turmoil, the angst, the anxiety, being ostracized from my friends, not being able to eat? The mental distress -- why should I put myself through all of that for him to get 30 days? This is a joke and a travesty especially girls who are high school students.

ADAM THOMPSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But it isn`t -- it isn`t just 30 days. It isn`t just 30 days. When the judge handed this sentence down, the sentence originally I believe was going to be 15 years and they suspended the sentence on very strict conditions. And the conditions were --

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And he didn`t meet the conditions.


THOMPSON: Hey listen. This guy had no record prior to this happening and he had a clean background.

GOMEZ: Who cares?


THOMPSON: When a defendant steps in court -- when a defendant steps in court to be sentenced you have to consider the background of that person. And it was otherwise clean. And the prosecutor agreed, if he --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re wrong.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He violated the terms of his -- go ahead.

GOMEZ: He`s absolutely right, they did give him conditions that he needed to meet in order to lessen the sentence, but he didn`t complete those conditions. He violated that agreement. So in my book, he should get the absolute maximum sentence that he can get.

F2: Jane --

THOMPSON: That`s wrong, he did not violate them. There was an issue of him being around children.

GOMEZ: This is a gross abuse of discretion by this judge. It`s outrageous. The judge should be removed or retired.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa -- Evangeline.


GOMEZ: This is a gross abuse of discretion by this judge. It`s absolutely outrageous. Every civil rights group in this nation should be banging on this door for this judge to be retired or removed by the Supreme Court of Montana. There is absolutely no excuse for this. It shows you our two-tier justice system that exists. This was a low income Latina young woman and there`s no reason that this sentence should have been handed down.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And by the way, he was given deferred prosecution agreement, and the agreement really put the case on hold, and he was supposed to complete a sex offender treatment program but he violated the terms by not only hanging out with his relatives who were minors but having sexual relations with a woman. So he did not meet the terms.

Now, we`re very honored to have with us tonight, before we play you the judge -- he`s just spoken, we`ll play it in a second. But first to Heidi Damon -- you are not only a survivor of sexual assault but you showed incredible courage, Heidi, when you confronted your attacker in court.

Let`s listen to what you said and then I want to get your reaction as a rape survivor to this sentence -- this joke of a sentence.


HEIDI DAMON, RAPE SURVIVOR: I will not address you by your birth name. See, you`re already ashamed. You can`t even look at me. I will not address you by your birth name, but what I feel you deserve to be called -- guilty, guilty, guilty.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Heidi Damon, sexual assault survivor, you`re calling from North Carolina. Your reaction to the judge`s comments as he sentences this teacher to 30 days instead of what the prosecution wanted, which was ten years?

DAMON (via telephone): Well, you know, I`m beyond outraged -- extremely perplexed, furious. Definitely felt anxiety for everyone involved in this. Her family, you know, obviously she herself. And the more I process this I`m thinking this judge has to step down, you know.

Someone needs to get the commission on judicial conduct of Montana on board with this and really look at this case and say, what the heck happened? Because this does not set a good example in any respect for judges, criminals, and people out there, who unfortunately have been assaulted as I have or attempted murder. And I have to strongly disagree with the man`s ignorance that is on your show right now that said oh, it`s his first time, this happened. So what? Are we supposed to give people leniency because it`s their first time murdering someone or raping?

You know, rape is rape. This girl did not have a relationship. I know that the stories have been, well, the school learned that there was a relationship between the two. No, when you have a minor child and an adult, it is rape. It`s not a relationship at that point. So that is just my -- my wonder of abundant emotions at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I thank you and I applaud you for speaking out tonight. Rape is rape, and the fact is, this man was in a position of authority and trust. He was a role model and he had power. And the idea that the judge says, well, she had just as much power as he did, no, a student doesn`t have as much power as a teacher. When a teacher says something is ok, a student is liable to say, well then that makes it ok, he`s an adult. He says it`s ok to make out. He says it`s ok for him to take my clothes off. Must be ok.

She was a kid. She was 14 when this happened. And need I remind our viewers and our panelists -- she later killed herself.

On the other side, we`re going to hear what the judge said, because he`s getting some blow back and he`s now speaking out on camera. Stay right there.


HANLON: I was floored. I thought there was a minimum sentence. I don`t know. My faith in the justice system is gone.




HANLON: I was floored. I thought there was a minimum sentence. I don`t know. My faith in the justice system is gone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`ve got some breaking news for you. Just minutes ago, the judge under fire, Judge Baugh who has been on the bench three decades, and who is by the way 71 years old, issued this statement of apology. Let`s listen. Just came in.


JUDGE G. TODD BAUGH, YELLOWSTONE COUNTY, MONTANA: I made some references to the victim`s age and control. I`m not sure just what I was attempting to say at that point, but it didn`t come out correct. What I said was demeaning to all women, not what I believe in, and irrelevant to the sentencing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, he`s up for re-election in 2014.

Straight out to "The Lion`s Den"; Dr. Judy Ho, you`ve got a chance to see it, and take it all in. Do you accept the apology? Do you think it was sincere? What do you think is going on with this guy?

JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, I don`t accept his apology. I think that he meant what he said at least to an extent. There`s some kind of underlying bias he has against these types of issues.

And you know what -- he`s uneducated. Most rape occurs within family members, friendships. It`s not the kind of rape that he claimed to happen in movies. These are the kinds of rape that people think about and these are the kinds of rape that people don`t think about. That doesn`t make any sense because the data shows it`s usually people you know.

And on top of that, he`s saying that this guy is somebody who can be treated, who can get better with mental health treatment and he`s already violated the treatment that he was put under, and he already violated those terms.

So is he learning from experience at all? Is this judge using the critical thinking skills that got him to this stage? I really have no idea what`s going on Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. By the way, we reached out to Stacey Rambold, the teacher`s attorney. He`s invited on any time. The judge is invited on any time. Mr. Rambold is invited on when he gets out of his 30 days. We want to get to the truth here and we want to hear from all sides.

Adam Thompson, criminal defense attorney, radio talk show host -- are you still defending this judge?

THOMPSON: I wasn`t defending him to begin with. We`re having an intellectual conversation about why the judge might have done what he did. If your last caller took my comments to mean that I`m in support of giving non-jail sentences to people who are convicted or plead guilty to rape, that`s not what I`m saying. I think the judge used poor words and didn`t express himself well at all. And in most cases -- look, I`ve been doing criminal defense for 25 years --

GOMEZ: I think he expressed himself honestly.

THOMPSON: -- people in these cases usually need some form of treatment. Does it mean they don`t get some time for incarceration? Usually they go to jail. But in cases where we can help people, the goal of the criminal justice system should be to help people. That`s the point I`m trying to make. I think the judge in this case thought that maybe he can be helped. That`s it.

GOMEZ: There is one other --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Ashleigh, Ashleigh.

ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The one thing that I can say about this that might make some people have a little bit of peace is he violated his pretrial order originally. He`s going to violate this sentence. When he violates this sentence, he`s going to prison. It was a 15-year sentence that was suspended upon condition. If he violates any of those conditions -- and we learned from the past that he can`t keep up with those conditions -- he`s going to go right back to prison. So it`s not over.

I think the sentence was horrible. I think the judge was horrible. But I think that there is a chance that he might actually be sentenced to what he deserves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, on the other side of the break, I want to hear from Heidi Damon, sexual assault survivor, does she accept this judge`s apology?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: My book "Exposed: the secret life of Jodi Arias" goes to the deeper why. Why did this happen? How could a demure supposedly, young woman, petite, pretty, soft spoken, slit a guy`s throat ear to ear six inches across and three and a half inches deep? How does that happen? This book answers that question with stunning new information that has never been reported before.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to Ella -- I don`t think you`re a fella, I think you`re fabulous on that couch. And Quincy -- who is your mystery friend there? Are you just having a play date? And speaking of play dates -- Sebastian & Isabelle, every day is a play date for you fellows. Friday and Big Orange -- it`s always Friday around there.



BAUGH: I made some references to the victim`s age and control. I`m not sure just what I was attempting to say at that point, but it didn`t come out correct. What I said was demeaning to all women, not what I believe in and irrelevant to the sentencing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That`s the judge`s statement handed out and said moments ago. Heidi Damon, sexual assault survivor, do you accept his apology?

DAMON: Well, my answer is not going to surprise you, I don`t think, Jane. My answer is absolutely, positively not accepted. I think he needs to hang up his robe. Three decades have obviously taken a toll on his judgment. And, you know, I still say the commission on judicial conduct of Montana should get involved. And I`m tired of people in power, you know, saying stupid things publicly, in a courtroom, politicians, whoever they are, and then backtracking because they`re running for office or all of a sudden they`re getting mud slung because they were in the wrong.

I don`t think his apology was sincere. He is running for office in the near future and I think he did it based on his advisors saying, you know, you might want to backtrack on this one. So that`s my answer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what`s really interesting is that in September of 2011, this same judge sentenced a 26-year-old man to 50 years behind bars for the rape of an 11-year-old boy. And in that case, the man had met the boy at a video store and later met him at school and lured him to an empty irrigation ditch, according to local reports.

So what does that tell you, Dr. Tiff, about his values or how he judges seriousness of a crime?

DAVIS-HENRY: Well, it definitely brings a lot into question. I would wonder what the demographics of that case was, and if there is something different and/or similar with the case that we`re looking at. In the case that you mentioned, those are two men, two boys, two males. Now we`re looking at male/female. So, maybe he was more impacted by the fact that this was a male preying on a young boy and not so much worried about the fact that it was a male teacher preying on a young female. I don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez.

GOMEZ: Or the fact that this is somebody who obviously has an Hispanic surname.

DAVIS-HENRY: Correct. Yes.

GOMEZ: That may also factor into it as well.

DAVIS-HENRY: For sure.

GOMEZ: And that`s something that can`t be ignored. Also this individual had a history. If you read the court papers, there was another student who graduated in 2005 who said, "Whoa, I can`t believe it. Finally, they got him. Finally he is out," because he was allegedly peeking into a window at a BPA conference in California. And also, students who --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again -- we are out of time. But I want to thank my panel and say that he is invited on our show, this teacher, Rambold, any time -- or his attorney.

But you know, this kind of thing goes on a lot and it`s very important that we talk about it. And my heart goes out, my condolences to the mother of Cherice.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tomorrow night right here 7:00 p.m. Eastern -- inside the mind of this serial killer. How many did he kill? The number we`re looking at is 11. We think it may be much, much more.