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Israel Keyes Interrogation Tape Part 2

Aired August 29, 2013 - 20:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe there are 11 victims total, and that is based primarily on what he`s told us. He was evasive. Like you mentioned, he was very evasive at times during interviews.

And he told us -- when we tried to pin him down on a number, he would say it was less than 12. But then there were things that he would say that led us to believe that by less than 12, he simply meant 11.

And so he was quick to correct us in interviews if we had something wrong. So there were several times where we just threw out statements like, Your 11 victims, or statements like that, and he didn`t correct us. So based on that, and some just additional things that he said, we believe the number is 11.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Very often, we find people fascinated by serial killers, and they -- they wonder why. Why do they kill? Many of them have different sexual perversions. They were abused as children. They have all sorts of psychological problems. Keyes, very simply, enjoyed the act of killing. He loved to kill people. It was like hunting for him.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have the ability to control (INAUDIBLE) back in April, when you told us about the Curriers, we had no idea what we were doing. We didn`t know there were seven or eight more bodies. We didn`t know -- we didn`t know a lot. And we have the ability now to control it better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had we known that back then, were able to communicate that to the people in Vermont, I don`t think the leak would have happened (INAUDIBLE) would have realized that -- the gravity of the situation. I don`t think that they did. I think they thought the end of it was their case. That was the only one that mattered to them. And clearly, it wasn`t. And I`m sure that person...

ISRAEL KEYES, CONFESSED SERIAL KILLER: Well, you know, that`s fine. What`s done is done. I`m just saying, from right now, from my perspective, there`s -- this letter doesn`t offer me anything. I know that, you know, you have pressure on you to find these other people, but frankly, they`ll keep. And I -- in my -- and I still don`t know, like I said, what`s going to happen with this information I gave you on day one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let`s -- you know, let`s talk about it.

KEYES: I would love to. But unfortunately, other parties chose not to be here, so...


GRACE: As we speak, as we go to air, authorities are trying to link Israel Keyes to other rapes and murders all across the country, and they`re doing that with his DNA. They are using the DNA data bank to see if they can connect him. He`s being compared to cases that involve DNA in practically every one of the continental U.S. states.

Police pushed Keyes to give them an exact number of people that he killed. He never did.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s maybe not the best thing to accomplish everybody`s goals. If I had something that I could take to them, I can maybe (INAUDIBLE) put that off. So that`s all I`m trying to deal with. Like -- you know, I think there`s a way to kind of circumscribe and limit the information (INAUDIBLE) I think there`s a way to write that into the agreement. I think there`s a way (INAUDIBLE) global (ph) settlement. You know, but if you want to put a Band-Aid on this, as they call it, let`s try and deal with the Vermont situation. I`m amenable to doing that, too.

KEYES: Yes. I don`t know. I don`t -- yes, it`s just a lot of stuff...


KEYES: The -- why is it -- why is it carjacking anyway? I don`t -- that part (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you took their -- their -- put them in the car.

KEYES: Is that because it was their car and not mine or something?


KEYES: So if it had been my car, it would have been kidnapping, or what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it depends on, you know, the method of kidnapping.

KEYES: It`s so weird. Carjacking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Kind of makes you seem like a gang member.

KEYES: Right.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`m just trying to think about Vermont and maybe how to buy time over there.


GRACE: What`s so amazing about this, Israel Keyes is a very, very mysterious person. His closest friends, his family, his girlfriend, his daughter, co-workers, neighbors -- no one suspected him of being a criminal, much less a murderer and a serial rapist to boot.

He said it became increasingly difficult for him to disappear for periods of time. You know, he would be gone three, four weeks at a time, just drop off the map. Nobody could find him. He wouldn`t answer his cell phone. It would be turned off. Nobody would know where he was.

His MO was to fly to one city, then rent a car or get a car and go driving for thousands of miles, looking for his victims, his hunting prey. No one in his life suspected he was a killer.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In April 2012, Vermont investigators received information from Alaska investigators that Israel Keyes was a suspect in -- of the murder of Samantha Koenig. And he had confessed to Alaska investigators that he had killed Bill and Lorraine Currier in Essex Junction, Vermont.

The initial information from Alaska about the information given by Mr. Keyes was not detailed and failed to include specific information that had not been released to the public. This was especially concerning as Mr. Keyes had indicated that he had been tracking the police investigation of the Curriers` disappearance through the Vermont press.


GRACE: Now, you may imagine that Israel Keyes had a lengthy rap sheet. No. He`s got one blemish on his rap sheet. It was a 2001 DUI, drunk driving, in Ft. Lewis. He did one day in jail for it. That`s it. He`s practically lily white.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Interesting. We read some press reports that suggested that Keyes was very concerned about his public image. And as we know with many serial killers, they want to leave some sort of controlled legacy. It`s sort of part of the psychopathy.


GRACE: On many occasions, I personally conducted interrogations of defendants myself. On other occasions, I observed interrogations conducted by the police.

And I`ve got to say that I`ve never seen anybody seemingly as relaxed as Israel Keyes. I mean, he was kicked back, having a cup of coffee. And I thought he was going to put his feet up and enjoy a cigarette. I thought that was coming next, he looked so relaxed. And I noticed the way he played the police.


KEYES: I don`t -- they`ve already released enough information. They`re going to get hounded endlessly until they release my name now, so...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but if I can, you know, give them something that kind of gives them comfort and gives the family comfort, then, you know, maybe we can delay things there until we can find out what`s going on in your other situation.

KEYES: I don`t -- like I say, it doesn`t matter. As far as Vermont goes, everybody already assumes that I did it, so...


KEYES: Even my own family pretty much assumes I did it, so...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But one of your goals was to not get charged out there. That was one of the things you told us the other day, was that you didn`t want...

KEYES: No, I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So that is something that we can still...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So ideally, what would that -- what would that say? You said there were some -- you know, what would -- how would you have that read? What information would you have released about the -- I mean, you control everything beyond the Curriers because you`re only -- you only tell us whatever you want to be released.

What would you -- what would be acceptable to you to be released that you think would meet your goal in this case?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Greg was talking about quantity.

KEYES: Well, it sounds like right now, I don`t even know if this is going to be charged by Vermont or by the feds, and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what would you want that to say regarding that?

KEYES: See, that -- this is the problem, though, because I don`t even know what`s possible.


KEYES: It just...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It does talk about that -- if this (INAUDIBLE) conduct in Alaska, which would prevent you from having to go back and face terms in Vermont, either state or federal back there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be (INAUDIBLE) Let`s keep it here, you know? At least...


KEYES: I just don`t even understand why they even would want to charge me there in the first place. It makes no sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know, it`s -- also, they have family members that they feel like they`re close to. And from their perspective they gave me, they want to make sure that family members see justice, you know? They feel like it`s a Vermont crime and the community needs to know that type of thing.

And -- you know, that`s their (INAUDIBLE) It may not make sense to you, but I understand it from a law enforcement perspective that, you know, hey, you committed a crime there, and you should be held accountable there. That`s typically their take on things.

And it would probably be our take on things, too, but happen in reverse, all right? But I think there is a -- there`s a way to just be able to kind of at least put them off for a little while, while you`re thinking about other things and thinking about (INAUDIBLE) we can work on. But you know, like I said, that`s a way for us to get close to our goals. If you want to (INAUDIBLE) come up with it.

KEYES: No, I mean, your goals at this point are pretty easy.


KEYES: My goal is not to get charged for...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the Curriers.

KEYES: ... seven, eight, different times, or whatever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s a goal...

KEYES: For the same thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s a goal we can help you with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that addresses everything.

KEYES: Right. No, I understand. That`s -- that is something I still have in my control. I mean, apparently, it`s already out of my control. I`m already going to get charged twice.


GRACE: We also know that Israel Keyes joined the Army in 1998. He trained at Ft. Hood, Texas, and he was what they call indirect fire infantryman -- indirect fire. What that means is that he loaded the ammunition. He manned the mortars. He also worked with land mines. He did a tour in Egypt, and I would advise Egypt authorities to look for bodies.



KEYES: There`s no one who knows me or who has ever known me who knows anything about me, really. They know -- they`re going to tell you something that does not line up with anything I tell you because I`m two different people, basically. And the only person who knows about what I`m telling you, the kind of things I`m telling you, is me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. How long have you been two different people?

KEYES: A long time, 14 years.


GRACE: Now, as you know, another part of his MO, his modus operandi, method of operation, would be to leave and go dark, so to speak, for weeks and weeks on end -- three, four, five, six weeks at a time.

And during that time, he would be hunting. He would never be caught on camera, ever on surveillance. He would shut his phone off, his cell phone off, at the get-go. For all of those weeks, he would not use his cell phone. If he was using a pre-paid cell instead, we don`t know about it.

So no surveillance video, no use of a cell phone at all, not even once, that would ping in the area of where he was killing, no use of credit cards at all, no use of his personal ATM at all for five, six weeks at a time during his killing sprees. He was completely untraceable.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Picking up where we left off because you said something that I want to respond to. I think the last thing you said -- and then I also want to respond to one of the -- something you said earlier about, Hey, at the last minute, this idea that seemed to (INAUDIBLE) at the last minute, you would just tell us everything, right? At the end of all this with the Curriers, you would just tell us everything.

So let`s use the Curriers` case in Vermont. You know, as we just explained, we have option, A, A and B for (INAUDIBLE) A is we, you know, get information. We keep Vermont on board, give some more information, not everything, but we give some more information to keep Vermont on board, keep moving forward (INAUDIBLE)

KEYES: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... with the Curriers. Option B, we (INAUDIBLE) you know, we lose control of Vermont because we don`t get anything about New York. And Vermont moves forward. And you know, the U.S. attorney`s office down there in Vermont says, Look, he`s not cooperating, we`re going to charge him federally. The state says, He`s not cooperating, we`re going to charge him state-wise. That kind of what could happen with plan B, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just -- are you with us so far?

KEYES: I take your word for it, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, you know, if you think that I`m telling you something that I -- that I -- that`s what I believe. There are two possible options here with the Curriers, the moving forward option, or the, you know, stalling option, in which case Vermont moves forward, federal and state.

Now, the state of Vermont does not even have a death penalty. But they have an interest, as you can tell, from (ph) your office. But for your cooperation and our working with them, the state of Vermont would want to charge you, right?

KEYES: Right.


GRACE: Now, one thing he did do which came back to haunt him is he used one of his victims` ATM cards. But by the time the police got there, he was so gone. But that`s how he got away with dozens and dozens of murders, estimated, because he would absolutely go dark.

And again, one of the most fascinating things, if you can say that about a killer, is that he was completely unrelated to his victims. He didn`t know them. He didn`t want to know them. No connection. They didn`t have money. He wasn`t a pen-pal. They weren`t on computer with each other. Nothing. He would pick them out completely by random.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keyes then took Bill Currier out of the car and led him through a back entrance into the basement of a farmhouse. In the basement, Keyes tied Bill Currier, whose hands were already restrained, to a stool.

Keyes then returned to the car in order to get Lorraine Currier and bring her into the house. Upon returning to the car, Keyes saw that Lorraine had broken free from the zipties that had earlier bound her. And Keyes observed that Lorraine was running towards Main Street.

Keyes tackled Lorraine Currier in order to regain control of her, which he was able to do. Upon gaining control of Lorraine, Keyes brought Lorraine to the second floor of the farmhouse. At that point, Keyes retied Lorraine`s hands and feet.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keyes was very meticulous, very -- his crimes were very well thought out. There was nothing that was spur of the moment or, you know, just kind of went out one day and decided to do something. Everything was meticulously planned.

And our interviews with him were the same, from his standpoint. I mean, he -- I never got the sense that he, you know, accidentally told us something or got angry and riled up and then something flew out of his mouth. He -- my sense was that he knew every time he came in kind of what he was going to give us that day.


GRACE: It`s all so difficult to piece together. He took at least 35 trips across the country, that we know of. Some were for hunting human victims. Some were to visit family. But I`m sure there were times where business and pleasure were mingled.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So let`s take the Vermont charges. That`s going to be a lengthy process to go forward. So that`s why the option B is a lengthy process. And they`re not -- no one is going to agree, either the U.S. attorney`s office in Vermont or the Vermont state prosecutors, are not going to agree to any kind of a situation where they say, Hey, great, we`re going to move things along quickly and get Israel a sentence, you know, whether he wants the death penalty or whether he wants life in prison, whatever, we`re going to go ahead and move forward with that, with the hope that at the last minute, he`s going to give us all this information, right? They`re just not going to agree to that.

I just wanted you to know my thoughts on that. I don`t speak for the U.S. attorney office in Vermont. I don`t speak for the state prosecutors on that issue. But you know, I think the reality is they`re not going to move things quickly there with the promise -- with the idea of a promise (INAUDIBLE) that goal. (INAUDIBLE) They`re going to want that first, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like, basic negotiating things. So that -- does that make sense?

KEYES: Yes. I mean, the part you left out is that with option A, is that if I continue to give them information, it`s -- they can still do whatever they want as far as charging me.


KEYES: They don`t have to give me their word on anything, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don`t, but they have and they do give their word. And so I think what you said was very insightful. Like, well, if you don`t want to move things quickly, but you don`t want them to be really slow -- the quickly is, in my opinion, you tell us.

KEYES: Right.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said that it would be his kind of early 20s, mid-20s, that he really came to terms with who he was, recognizing that he was different from other people and that he had these urges, and that there wasn`t -- you know, he tried to initially blame it on, you know, Satan and religious things on why he was like this, and a number of different things.

And then he ultimately realized that that`s just who he was and he accepted that. And I think that as he began to do that, it became easier for him to do. He enjoyed -- he talked about enjoying the fact that he was two different people and really being able to play that off with people and that people had absolutely no idea what he was doing.

He even referenced times where he would be at his job, when he was living in Washington, and people would talk about criminals and how stupid they were, and how they did this to get caught or that to get caught, and how he enjoyed those kind of conversations because people had no clue what he was doing.

GRACE: You know, psychologists, psychiatrists, crime sleuths, always want to know about the childhood of a serial killer, the influences in his early days.

This is what we know about Israel Keyes. He was born about 25 miles north of Spokane, Washington. He was home-schooled. He was second-born to Amish parents. They changed religions frequently. They were Amish, they were Christians, they were Mormons.

We also know that he stated that he enjoyed torturing the household pets. That seems to be a common denominator. A (INAUDIBLE) mini serial killers that are ultimately caught. They kill because they enjoy it. They torture because they enjoy it. That is their motivation.


PAYNE: What`s Vermont`s reason to be at the firm?

KEYES: I don`t know.

PAYNE: Well, you said they already have a reason, so I`m curious as to what that reason is.

KEYES: I don`t -- I don`t know. Uncommon sense, I guess. I`m sure that at this point they want to give themselves a pat on the back, but frankly, they don`t deserve one, so -- you know, that`s their reason. They`re being honest with themselves, they would know they couldn`t give themselves a pat on the back for that.

FELDS: They`re going to say hey, if Israel was being honest with himself, he wouldn`t just tell you guys, and move this thing along. That`s their reaction.

KEYES: You know, I`m probably more honest with myself than anybody else.


FELDS: Is it -- are you -- you`re just looking to -- I mean, are you looking to hide information? Is that what I`m getting now?


FELDS: That your looking just to hide it?

KEYES: Well, I mean --


Look, I`ll give it to you. Especially if there is something in it for me. But --

FELDS: Well --

KEYES: It would be better if my name wasn`t attached to it. From here until eternity or whatever.


PAYNE: And we`ve told you before, we don`t have a problem with that, we`ve demonstrated repeatedly that we have the ability to greatly influence that.


GRACE: The planning. The mental calculating that he would have to go through to create, construct these kill boxes and place them in obscure locations all across the country, so he could travel to them. He had to place these kill boxes at months, at least months before he used them, if not years, because remember, his M.O. was to fly from the Alaska area to another location, such as Chicago, and then he would rent a car, and drive thousands of miles.

And within those thousands of miles, he would get his kill -- he would go to his kill boxes. And use them. He never traveled with weapons. He never traveled with money. He didn`t have to.


KEYES: In general, I remember specifically before we even had -- you know, before I gave location of the house or anything, I was like, I`ll give you the location of this house, but I don`t want the locals involved. I don`t want -- I didn`t see any reason to bring anyone back there in that area into the fold, so to speak, as to what was going on. Because they didn`t have a clue anyway.


KEYES: You know, and next thing I know, there`s, like, articles in the paper, like this big dig site going on. You know, there was just -- there was a lot more discreet ways to handle it. You know, so you got your information, you went -- they went right away to the lead investigator on the case. And, you know, my name got leaked out somehow, way back then. And then, you know, months later, you dig, you dig, you never find anything. Aside from what I gave you in the first place. And then my names attached to it anyway.

RUSSO: Let me tell you a little bit about at least my perception of how things work here. And then I`ll tell you a little bit about the realities of law enforcement. The FBI just kind of went in there and simply stand by, gang busters, hey, locals, you stay out of there, we`re handling this. We`re not telling you what`s going on.

That would be a political nightmare for them, OK. Given that they have the information that another agency was investigating. They couldn`t do it. I think we`ve talked about that numerous times since then that Vermont was a test case. And, you know, I think we`ve learned a lot from Vermont.

And we understood that the way that was handled back then, you know, we have to avoid in the future to keep both sides happy if we`re going to get continued information. So, you know, that`s why -- that`s the whole reason that we initially came up with, you know, this letter. Is to handle it a little bit differently and get Vermont to sort of get on board with us.

So, you know, we`re successful in getting the letter. Obviously, some things happened that, you know, we were disappointed with, too, about your name getting leaked out.

BELL: You know we`re not happy about the way that went either.


GRACE: So as you are watching him being interrogated, how much did he hold back? He was playing a game with investigators. He knew that at some point, the state would seek the death penalty on him. Either the state or the feds. And he would always hold back victims` information, evidence, so he would have something to bargain with. Because when it came right down to it, as he was walking into an execution, he could say, oh, I can tell you about two more victims. If you want me to.

And you know that justice would come grinding to a halt. So those victims` families could have some peace.

He, Israel Keyes, a raping and killing machine.


T.J. DONOVAN: Upon going to the basement, Keyes discovered that the stool he had tied Bill`s hands to had broken and Bill was now partially free. During this time, Bill Currier repeatedly yelled, "Where is my wife." In an attempt to subdue Bill Currier, Keyes hit him with a shovel, following which Bill continued to struggle and yell, wanting to know where his wife was.

At this time, Keyes realized that Bill Currier was not going to cooperate with his attempts to subdue him. Israel Keyes then retrieved the gun and silencer and shot Bill Currier to death.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Future plans and what he would have done, which included continuing to do what he was doing, continuing to kidnap and murder people. So he had no remorse at all.

GRACE: He always held something back. I to this day don`t think we know everything there is t know about Israel Keyes, and his many, many murder victims. One thing that is astonishing about Israel Keyes is the amount of preplanning, the premeditation, the intricate maps and especially his hidden kill boxes. It`s estimated that there are, you know, dozens more of his kill boxes still across the country hidden.

Kill boxes, as he called them, as police called them, containing cash, typically, from his bank robberies, weapons, guns, knives, possibly Drano, rope, masks. A scream mask from, of course, the movie "Scream."


PAYNE: Just the reality is if we`re not able to do this without your assistance, I can`t imagine being able to do this without generating a fair amount of publicity. I just don`t think it`s possible. It`s going to be too large in scope and it`s going to involve many -- too many jurisdictions and too many agencies.

KEYES: Right.

PAYNE: I`m just being honest.

KEYES: Yes. I mean, I know. I know you`ve got to move along with the investigation. Unfortunately, due to my own actions recently, I -- someone complicated matters for me, so now not surprisingly now there`s something else I want out of this.


But I don`t know if I`m even supposed to talk that -- about that yet because I -- I haven`t found out what my options are.

BELL: Something that you can talk about that`s not related to --

KEYES: No, it`s just like the level of restriction they have me on in jail. I mean, namely, like my so-called rec time is now fresh air time, because I feel like I go like this. Leg irons and stuff. No more running in circles. I guess they figured --


BELL: Just shuffled out.

KEYES: Yes, they keep me in my cell long enough I don`t want to run anymore.


But yes, I know that`s unrelated to anything we`ve talked about so far obviously in the situation. But it doesn`t really change the fact it`s an everyday -- so I`m trying to figure out what if any options there are regarding --

BELL: Within the system?

KEYES: Yes. Anyway. That and like I say, I -- I think so far, yes, things are -- have worked fine. But, yes, I am concerned about not so much, like, right here and now publicity. I think we can keep that under wraps to a large extent. If it`s possible, like I intend to do something, take steps to minimize the down the road publicity.


GRACE: Now Keyes says that he was actually on the verge of committing three more murders just before he was apprehended. He had gone to a jogging area, a hiking area, and he had spotted a couple and had prepared to shoot them at long range. And just before he pulled the trigger, a police officer drove up. And he thought that would be great, to gun down all three. But then, just as he was recalculating and resetting his sights, another police officer drove up.

And he decided that was just too much, four victims at once. He couldn`t do it. He couldn`t pull it off. He was that close to killing three more innocent people. At random.


CHIEF BRAD LAROSE, ESSEX, VERMONT POLICE DEPARTMENT: When you refer to the information of Bill and Lorraine being dead, that came from -- that came from Keyes. He was incarcerated at the time for another offense.

KEYES: You know, I mean, there is nothing -- I`m not trying to get anything else out of this at this point. You know. And as -- you know, and I did say, you know, I wanted to just get this all cleared up. And that way you`re not digging for who knows how many years down the road, you know, trying to connect the dots and just make it all go away. But -- but I don`t know that I -- I just have to figure out the best way to do that to make it all go away.


BELL: I understand that, too, from previous statements many, many times. But at some point in time, you may -- your choices may -- your choice may be the reality could be that Lanny and everybody else knows what you did, based on what you said you did, or everybody else, including Lanny, gets to see the fiasco, and the media frenzy that is created by law enforcement trying to figure out --

KEYES: Right. Speculation.

BELL: Speculating what you did. Because I told you, you know, on the one trip that we looked at, surrounded New York, we have 10 viable -- well, people that are missing that we know of. Those are just the ones still reported that way. And so if we have to -- we know you didn`t do that. But that`s what we`re looking at. In each one of these --

KEYES: Right.

BELL: Trips -- we`re faced with if you don`t tell us, our options are to be public with that agency because we can`t ask questions.

KEYES: Right.

BELL: And not expect questions in return. And so we are -- we are really living up to our end of the bargain. Because at this point in the investigation, if you weren`t cooperating with, I mean, this would already be happening and the media frenzy would be crazy with us trying to figure it out. Because we do have enough information on your trips that at least to do police work.

KEYES: Right.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wanted the death penalty and he wanted it fast. Speaking generally that was what he wanted. There were little things along the way that he wanted. He wanted evidence returned to family members and things like that. But big picture what he wanted, he wanted to avoid trial. He wanted to avoid publicity and media. He wanted to avoid being taken from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and tried in, you know, multiple places. And ultimately he wanted the death penalty and he wanted it quickly. He didn`t want to sit in jail for a long period of time.


GRACE: Keyes has always said that he would never be taken alive. Well, we certainly heard that before. He always said that he would be killed in a shootout with police. Just FYI, he was taken down by a single police officer in Texas who never fired a shot. Let that sink in for a moment.


BELL: You don`t think we`re going to come but --


BELL: But we have to try. And so -- and I know that`s tough for you to think about. In the future is that the reality may be that, you know, one`s worse than obviously.

KEYES: Right.

BELL: So --

RUSSO: Especially the one in New York. I mean, because the only reason we`re not just showing you a picture is these guys and the FBI have been incredibly restrained about asking that part of the country for assistance. Because if they ask that part of the country for assistance the immediate response is going to be, what do you have.

KEYES: Right.

RUSSO: Who do you have. And so that`s the reason why we`re not just sitting here throwing, you know, pictures in front of you and going to you first because, you know, we understand you`re cooperating with us. Vermont understand it and that`s why they`re on board and we just like to continue that effort instead of having this whole convenient frenzy, too.

KEYES: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was enough cooperation from the killer`s own words to lead the police to be certain that he, in fact, was the killer.



GRACE: Everyone, Labor Day coming up. We celebrate a very special group of workers, working moms. Are you a working mom? Do you know one who deserves recognition for hard work at home and at work?

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COFFIN: There are many lengthy discussions between Keyes and investigators in Alaska. And during the course of those, he provided information about four individuals we alluded to being killed in Washington state and one in New York state.

RUSSO: You know, with respect to (INAUDIBLE), I mean there is that whole frenzy that`s going to be created, you know, if things slow down, I think. You know, we touched on this last time is that there may be some benefit at the end of this. Well, you know, the media says that Israel Keyes killed 40 people, which, you know, based upon some wild speculation as oppose to he killed 10. And then also gave closure to those families as a his sort of last effort. And then I know that doesn`t matter to you, it may matter to her.


GRACE: What is the most surprising thing about Israel Keyes to me after prosecuting so many homicide cases, it`s not necessarily his demeanor or his M.O. to rape and kill. I mean, that`s the oldest story in the book. But the fact that he outwitted authorities for so long, the way that he remained detached from all of his victims until finally, the coffee girl, the barista, Samantha.

That surprises me the most that he never let his guard down. He never murdered close to home until the very end. It`s very surprising to me that he could keep that monster inside of him from jumping out while he was on his home turf. If that had ever happened he would have been stopped much, much sooner.