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Shellie Zimmerman Holds News Conference
Aired September 11, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Zimmerman`s wife speaks. Plus, why is the medical examiner who performed Trayvon Martin`s autopsy suing the state of Florida?
Then, the newlywed bride accused of pushing her groom off a cliff. Was it an accident or cold-blooded, premeditated murder? Those who knew him said he was isolated from his friends. What does the behavior bureau say?
And a drunk driver`s confession. I will share my thoughts on this viral video.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM Radio host Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, we`ve got the case of the newlywed bride charged with murder, accused of shoving her groom, Jenny, face first off a cliff.
I know, you and I get along pretty well. I don`t think that would happen, but sometimes I wonder.
We`ll hear from his best friend --
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Dr. Drew!
We`ll hear from his best friend on the wedding day and during the funeral for that matter.
But, first up, we`re getting back to George Zimmerman, his estranged wife, Shellie, held a news conference today. We will have that in a moment.
But, first, I want you to watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: They appear to be arguing outside. I don`t know if you can see that. Here they are. Now, he appears to grab the iPad, rip it up, and throw it on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, put your hands up! Get away from the car!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re 55 with one vehicle in front of people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on your knees! Cross your feet!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will not be any charges anytime soon without that iPad and that could be, again, weeks, months away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy is so lucky! It`s ridiculous. The next thing they`re going to tell me is he`s got nine lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Investigative reporter Rita Cosby joins us with the latest.
Rita, what do you got?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Well, Dr. Drew, there are lots of strange and very confusing twists to report tonight.
First, Shellie Zimmerman`s attorney spoke today to reporters, but his client barely said a word. The attorney said, quote, "Shellie wants this relationship to end with a whimper, not a bang," which is a strange choices of phrasing, since this latest domestic dispute contained at first allegations that George Zimmerman was threatening his estranged wife and her dad with a gun.
And now, in a newly released yet very heavily redacted police report, Shellie Zimmerman told cops, she thought he had a gun because he had his hand inside his shirt, where he normally keeps his concealed weapon. He was also urging her to, quote, "step closer."
Now, so far, no charges filed in the case, but authorities are still trying to recover data from that iPad that was filming the actual dispute. And as you just saw, was smashed.
And here`s the latest, an explosive allegation now from the state medical examiner, who`s about to sue for 100 million bucks after he was fired. He says he has proof that Trayvon Martin was not the aggressor and wonders why he was not asked that during the trial.
PINSKY: That is some heavy, heavy information.
Thank you, Rita.
PINSKY: I want to show people the redacted police report that Rita was talking about. All those black marks you see there are the redactions. Primarily, these are people`s names that didn`t want to be publicly acknowledged, that they`re in situations like tonight.
All right. Now, on the panel, I`ve got Mike Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Crystal Wright from conservativeblackchick.com, attorney and CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos, and attorney Anahita Sedaghatfar.
Now, the news conference that Rita was talking about, I`m going to give you a piece of what Shellie`s lawyer said right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shellie Zimmerman wants this relationship to end with a whimper and not a bang. So we try not to talk about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He spoke for 39 minutes, you guys. He spoke, she said, my producer added this up, five words. Five words from Shellie.
Crystal, what`s your reaction?
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: I mean, I`m a public relations strategist. That`s what I do for a living. And when my clients want something to go away, they generally don`t step in a pile of you-know- what in public.
So I think it`s really funny. The first thing I could do -- all I could do was laugh. If Shellie really wants this to quietly go away with a whimper, why hold a press conference? And then why -- I mean, so many -- this just -- I`m scratching my head over her behavior and Georgie`s behavior. I mean, they`re obviously two star crossed lovers who want to get out of this situation. It certainly ain`t no Romeo and Juliet, guys. Maybe you should stop fighting at the house.
There was no gun, by the way, guys. There was no gun that was found. Maybe clawing.
No, Dr. Drew, let`s not misrepresent the facts. Rita left out that the police said they found no gun in the home.
PINSKY: In the home. I think that`s right.
WRIGHT: So let`s talk about facts.
PINSKY: Mark, my understanding is that George Zimmerman has reported that he had a gun on his body.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: That`s correct. O`Mara laid that to rest. He said that George Zimmerman does carry a gun. There`s no question he had one.
However, let`s get big picture here. There are limited law enforcement resources in that town and almost every town. Why do they continue to spend the time in this case, when both parties want this to go away, when the alleged victim is an admitted perjurer.
And Crystal Wright is right, this is a horrible press conference. Do not continue to get your 15 minutes of fame.
WRIGHT: Thank you, Mark.
PINSKY: Anahita, go.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: I totally agree with Mark. Dr. Drew, she wants this to go away, then why is she running to the media any chance she gets? She`s running faster than Carl Lewis. She goes on ABC to announce her divorce. She`s divulging all this private, personal information about her and her husband on ABC News.
And then today, what purpose did that press conference serve? Honestly? (AUDIO GAP) This attorney was just rambling. It looks like he, himself, might want his 15 minutes of fame here, Dr. Drew. Maybe he wants your job. I don`t know.
But I think it`s so disingenuous to say that she wants this to quietly go away.
PINSKY: Danny -- I got you. I`m just wondering, I have to hear from Danny, I wonder if he agrees or disagrees with everybody.
DANNY CEVALLOS, ATTORNEY: Yes. Well, there`s a message in this, Drew. Take a look. Here`s yet another domestic, unnecessary domestic incident, where the resources of the government, the sparse resources of the government are being called to a house where, I think he has a gun, I`m not so sure, maybe I don`t know anymore.
We can never get those manpower hours back of the police or the money that they expended. And this is happening every single day across America. It`s not talked about that often because we want to err on the side of caution.
There may be a gun, police come in, but how many times do these spats get unnecessarily brought public sector, and we require our police officers to waste their (AUDIO GAP) what should really be kept in the kitchen.
WRIGHT: Right, right. And Danny is -- well, Danny is absolutely right, because the cop who came on the scene said this was a classic domestic violence dispute. He said that it was he said/she said, they were upset at each other.
And remember, Georgie`s having an affair. No wonder.
PINSKY: Right. Yes, and, Jenny, I want to get you on this. Jenny, wait, Jenny, I want to show you something else. Apparently, there was some conversation about George having had another woman in the house when Shellie went to go get her stuff. "The Daily Mail" published this photo and claims that the person in the house was George`s ex-fiancee. There she is.
Jenny, Jenny, the same woman, supposedly the one in 2005, who issued the restraining order against George.
HUTT: First of all, the fact that she has any interest in George in that way is just beyond my comprehension. So I`ll start with that. But second of all --
WRIGHT: Come on, Jenny.
HUTT: I`m going to go with the whole, Shellie, I`m flip-flopping. I think she`s full of baloney. I don`t think she was scared for her life yesterday. I`ve got to agree with Crystal.
PINSKY: Crystal, let me tell you where we get on thin ice here with this whole thing. Domestic violence is a very, very, very serious topic.
WRIGHT: It is!
PINSKY: And in a way, this is making light of and causing a sort of skepticism toward something that is a profound problem. But hang on, I`m going to let you talk, but also the issue of city and police resources being used for a recurrent domestic violence problem, media time, attorney time, all these resources are being tied the up by a problem that, frankly, is very serious and should be treated.
WRIGHT: Well, but it is serious. But I wasn`t implying that domestic violence -- women get hit and killed and abused by men and restraining orders don`t work. We know that. This is very serious.
But I want to go back to what jenny said and Mark and Danny. It`s a waste of police resources, because to jenny`s point, I think Shellie is doing a little bit of histrionics here. She wants attention. I mean, it`s a classic case of, "I want attention."
What the police officer said, I`m not minimizing it. He said the call was just like a minor domestic violence, he said/she said. Oh, you know, he tried to hit me. She tried to claw at me.
I`m not minimizing it, but what the cop said was, this wasn`t any big deal, guys. There was no blows exchanged.
PINSKY: Mark? Hang on --
EIGLARSH: Wait, hold on.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Mark.
EIGLARSH: We`ve got to make a distinction between the police resources that were used when the call was made. Without question, they had to go, they had to investigate, they had to take this seriously in light of the serious allegations being made. However, moving forward, this should be over. There are other victims and other cases out there that they should put the effort towards.
PINSKY: Then let`s leave that particular issue right there. But there`s another twist, Rita alluded to this.
We`re going to hear from the medical examiner who had performed the Trayvon Martin`s autopsy. He was fired. He is suing for $100 million and he has some really interesting things to say.
And later, the newlywed bride accused of pushing her groom face-first off a cliff. You`ll hear what his friends have to say about her.
We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you feeling like $100 million, Shellie? No, she`s not feeling that great. You don`t feel like $100 million, do you?
SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to answer what you want to do with the rest of your life or are you not ready for that?
ZIMMERMAN: I`m not ready for that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me your hand, let`s go
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt, and our panel: Mark, Danny, Crystal and Anahita.
That was the totality of what Shellie Zimmerman said during that press conference. The war of Zimmermans continues.
Meanwhile, breaking news as it relates to George Zimmerman`s trial. Remember the prosecution`s medical examiner? He has now been fired. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not have any recall. I do not have any memory of the day of autopsy, nine months after my autopsy. I came to my office --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, I`m sorry, this is not responsive to the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I want to explain why I did not remember. I put everything in front of me. The autopsy report, the notes, the photos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please ask the witness to --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I try very hard --
UNIDENTIFEID MALE: -- respond to the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And now he is firing back, so to speak, planning to sue for $100 million. His claim is that the prosecution was biased in favor of the Zimmerman, alleging that they threw the case.
Mark, you say it`s crazy. Tell me what you think.
EIGLARSH: Yes. All right, this whole lawsuit has no merit whatsoever. He was fired for one main reason.
Drew, I have told you that trials are not about the truth. They are theater. He is one of the actors. He is a bad actor, both in style and in substance. He took a simple issue, made it complex. It was unnecessarily combative. And you don`t want to have this guy on the stand in a homicide case ever in the future.
PINSKY: Crystal, what about this business that Rita reported, in spite of you`re saying amen, Rita reported that he says he has, quote, "proof" that Trayvon was not the aggressor. What do you think about that?
WRIGHT: You know, to mark`s point, he is so unreliable, it`s not even funny. The clip you just showed, he`s like, "I don`t remember, I don`t remember," I think that`s what he was saying. He was combative.
And remember, this is the same guy who testified before the trial and said he didn`t think marijuana in Trayvon`s system could make him, you know, agitated or something like that.
Then when he was on the witness stand, he said that the traces of marijuana in Trayvon Martin`s body could make him agitated and aggressive, I think he said.
So you know, he conflicts himself left and right, $100 million, give me a break. I`m not going to hold my breath for this so-called evidence, the smoking gun.
PINSKY: And when I speak of smoking, smoking the pot issue, I`ve seen pathologists say the strangest stuff about drug use and addiction. And they have no experience in that area, either -- well, you know, they have no experience of treating patients.
Jenny, you wanted to say something?
HUTT: Yes, just, look, do I really think -- it`s clearly not a real lawsuit. But if he does have some evidence, I`d like to see it, if it really exists.
PINSKY: That`s interesting.
All right. The medical examiner was not the only one fired in the wake of this trial. The prosecution`s IT guy, fired for allegedly leaking evidence. The first police chief lost his job, essentially for not arresting Zimmerman after the Trayvon Martin shooting.
And you heard Shellie`s lawyer talk about wanting to end all this. I guess O`Mara is not representing him anymore. I want to see a show of hands. How many of you believe that the Zimmermans -- we`ve heard the end of the Zimmermans conflict?
HUTT: I hope so.
SEDAGHATFAR: No way.
PINSKY: Yes, none of us believe it`s going to be -- so it`s ongoing. So my question for this panel, I`ll start with you, Anahita, what are the predictions? How is this going to play out?
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, you heard this here first, and I hope I get credit for this later on when it proves to be true, but I predict the two women that hate George Zimmerman the worst on this planet, his wife, his soon-to-be ex-wife and Trayvon Martin`s mother are going to pair up and maybe start an "I hate George Zimmerman" fan club, maybe there`s going to be some type of book deal. I`ve seen stranger things happen.
But I don`t think that we`re going to -- this isn`t the end of this story. Not at all.
PINSKY: Mark`s shaking his head, not at all. What do you think, Mark?
EIGLARSH: Well, I just hope that her prediction fails. I don`t want to see that. I want this to go away. I want to move on. I want to cover other issues. Something else.
PINSKY: Danny, you?
CEVALLOS: Well -- well, Dr. Pinsky, I want to go back to the other lawsuit that`s going to play against for a while, which is that $100 million lawsuit. The problem with those lawsuits is that they give the public a bad taste in their mouth about litigators who are litigating valid claims every single day.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, that`s true.
CEVALLOS: When you make a claim and Mark and Anahita can talk about that. When the public hears about a $100 million lawsuit, with no claims - - I have to tell you that in a personal injury case with a wrongful death or a lifetime of pain and suffering, that probably usually doesn`t even approach $100 million.
CEVALLOS: It is bad for the public.
SEDAGHATFAR: I totally agree.
PINSKY: Hold on! Mark.
EIGLARSH: One of the claims that this guy is making is that the prosecution never asked him whether Trayvon was the initial aggressor. They didn`t ask him, number one, because it would have caused a mistrial. It is not for him to give his opinion.
And number two, he`s not qualified. He wasn`t there, he wasn`t an eyewitness.
PINSKY: You guys are --
HUTT: But guys!
HUTT: Here`s the thing about the legal system. It`s created in a way that anyone can bring a case. And if it`s without merit, it will be dismissed.
PINSKY: Hold on! You guys are pushing one of my biggest buttons. I have been in so many frivolous lawsuits, you have no idea. And have wasted and wasted and wasted my time.
I want all of that time back from the legal system that I have wasted in deposition. I want seeing someone`s life 10 minutes after I arrived on their case and was sued for day in treatment. I`m sick of that. I`m sick of frivolous lawsuits.
I`m with you, Danny, on this one.
WRIGHT: I`m with dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Crystal --
CEVALLOS: Doctor, I file these lawsuits.
PINSKY: Crystal, first.
WRIGHT: Can I speak, please?
WRIGHT: Hello, hello?
Frivolous lawsuits are not only a waste of taxpayer dollars, they`re a waste of time, and what you just said, Jenny, it`s a problem. You`re giving a green light to any lunatic -- remember the McDonald`s coffee? The lady who held --
HUTT: I`m not giving a green light --
WRIGHT: She held the coffee -- she held the coffee her lap --
PINSKY: She won that suit, as I recall.
WRIGHT: And she wonder why she got scalded, because the coffee spilled all over her thighs. Give me a break, Jenny. We shouldn`t be encouraging people to file frivolous lawsuits. It`s a waste of everybody`s time.
HUTT: Frankly, Crystal, she would have really got me the ice cream sundae --
PINSKY: And, Danny, you say you file these lawsuits. I work in a world where people take --
CEVALLOS: I file lawsuits, not these --
PINSKY: Hang on. Good, excellent. But I want to tell you, I work in a world where people get angry with drug addicts for not taking responsibility for their behavior when they`re ill, and I understand that. But where this all got started is in these situations where people could have huge secondary gains for things they did and didn`t take responsibility for.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s true.
WRIGHT: Bingo. Personal responsibility.
CEVALLOS: Again, the problem is that -- the problem with lawsuits like these is very clear. There are many valid claims out there. And it dilutes the -- it dilutes the public`s perception of what lawyers do. Although I have to add, if you research the case, the McDonald`s case, that was a stronger case for liability. At the time, they were heating it up to temperatures --
PINSKY: Good attorney speak! Danny, way to go. I want Anahita take me out here. Go ahead.
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, I agree. And I think that one thing we have to look at is that in these frivolous cases, we oftentimes have attorneys. And in this case, he`s being represented by one of biggest trial lawyers in the country. That`s going to be his only leverage in the case.
PINSKY: Because of the money!
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s why they can demand $100 million. I mean, that`s absolutely ridiculous.
PINSKY: All right. Leave it there. Guys -- thank you, panel. We`re going to talk about the latest on the bride charged with murder for having pushed her groom off this cliff, just eight days after their wedding.
And later, the behavior bureau hears from a friend of the groom. A friend of the groom with his insight on this lady you`re seeing there, embracing her husband. There she is. He has some thoughts on her and her behavior and the behavior bureau will take a good look at it.
Don`t go away.
PINSKY: Welcome back. My co-host is Jenny Hutt.
I`m a little agitated. How about some tort reform, guys? Those medical malpractice insurance dollars could be saved. Your medical costs could go way down. I`m just saying, I`m just saying. Calm.
Jenny, we`re going to change topics. OK? So you pushed the button, my dear. You did it. You know which one to push that really gets me going.
Jordan Graham, we`re going to talk about Jordan Graham. The newlywed bride facing murder charges for pushing her husband off a cliff. She was in court today. I want you to look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a bizarre story. First she reported him missing, then days later she said she found his body. Police say even later, they then admitted that they`d argued.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She pushed her husband face first off that cliff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most incriminating evidence, an alleged admission from graham that she had lied.
PINSKY: A text from Jordan on July 7th, I believe that`s the night he died, and it was late at night, too. "Oh, well, I`m about to talk to him." The friend then responded, "I`ll pray for you guys."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s the kicker, she writes back, "But dead serious, if you don`t hear from me at all again tonight, something happened."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I push him off this cliff, I can say it was an accident and I was actually defending myself and oops, my bad, he just fell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they were exchanging their vowing, Jordan wasn`t, never once, looked at Cody.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Panel is back. Mark, Danny, Crystal, and Anahita, and joining us on the phone is CNN correspondent, Kyung Lah.
Kyung, can you please give us the latest on this case?
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): The latest, Drew, is that there was a detention hearing today. This could be very significant tomorrow. Here`s why. The judge is going to decide if she actually gets to be released, with conditions, perhaps to her family, or she`s going to stay behind bars. The judge is expected to rule by noon, local time tomorrow.
The attorneys for the defendant say that she should be released, but she doesn`t have a history of violence, except for this one incident, and that she is not a threat to society.
So, that`s what they want, but the prosecution is saying she`s absolutely a threat and needs to stay behind bars.
One other thing I want to add, Drew, is that I`ve spent a lot of time here, talking to friends, talking to family, and the most remarkable thing you hear is her demeanor, that she was so detached, that she seemed detached at the wedding and even at the funeral, she was texting friends while eulogies were given -- Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you so much.
Now, Mark, if you were defending this woman, she has already come clean, so to speak, about some involvement with this. What would your defense be?
EIGLARSH: I think we`re going to see the only defense that`s viable. And that is that this was a tragic accident for which she did not intend. She already said in her, I guess, last version, one of many, that he reached for her and that she pushed him, and that was something she didn`t intend to occur.
However, keep in mind, with defendants like this, there`s a history. Those that tell so many different stories, come game day, they just allege that it was someone else, like Zanny the nanny who did it.
PINSKY: Oh, very interesting.
But you`re right. I mean, that`s the part about this that is so disturbing.
Anahita, why didn`t she just go to the police and say it was an accident in the first place?
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly, Dr. Drew. What she did here, she violated rule number one. When you`re a criminal suspect in a murder case, you don`t go running your mouth. You don`t go rambling, giving statement after statement, because I think she would have had some viable defenses here.
I think you could have argued self-defense or maybe involuntary manslaughter, because you do have that text message that you showed that she sent to her friend saying, hey, if you don`t hear from me, know that something happened. I think you can argue that maybe that showed that she feared for her life, she feared that her husband might harm her. And you couple that with her statement that, yeah, we were fighting, he grabbed my arm, and I pushed him and I reacted.
So I think you can make the argument that it was self-defense or voluntary manslaughter --
PINSKY: Jenny, that may have been all an attempt at an alibi.
HUTT: Wait a minute, Dr. Drew, I think first rule of thumb is that murderers don`t follow the rules of thumbs. They do what they want to do. Like this case, she allegedly pushed him off the cliff.
SEDAGHATFAR: She`s not a murderer yet. That`s the thing here. And that was I think what got her in this situation, Dr. Drew. Just like you said, if she went to the police right away, told them what happened, explained her situation, she probably would not be in this situation now.
But if she goes to trial, I guarantee you, the prosecution --
WRIGHT: Well, she actually --
WRIGHT: But she actually did tell the police, from what I read, that she could have walked away, but she was really angry, so she threw hubby off the cliff. I mean, I`m sorry, this goes back -- and I know she`s innocent until proven guilty, but I just want to say one thing, because I`ve said this before.
WRIGHT: This shows the standard of American society and how we, the moral boundaries -- now, how many times on this show have we talked about - - killing this domestic, you know, husband or wife deciding they`re just going to kill a spouse, because that`s what we do now in America. And now, we have a new standard. If I don`t like my husband, I`m going to throw him off a cliff.
WRIGHT: But what`s disturbing, Dr. Drew, and you deal with the mind and what goes on in our heads is that as a society, we are not talking things through anymore. And people watch what we`re talking about. They watch these cases, they get cues, and they said, hmm, I don`t think I like my husband anymore. I think the cliff route is good or maybe I don`t like my wife. I think I`ll just burn her up and the kids in the house. I mean, this is serious business that we need to really --
PINSKY: You`re right.
WRIGHT: It`s just crazy.
PINSKY: You`re right, and we`re going to get into that with the "Behavior Bureau" in just a second, but before we do, I want to show you what Cody`s best friend had to say about Jordan. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON FREDRICKSON, CODY`S FRIEND AND CO-WORKER: I think it was much of a relationship, to be honest. She was always very closed off, very reserved, didn`t really want to associate with anyone. We`d always have group gatherings of, you know, people coming over and playing games or bonfire and going out to dinner, and just never would really engage in conversation with anyone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Danny, we heard very similar discussions about Jodi Arias, did we not? I haven`t heard from you yet. I`m wondering what your thoughts are about her.
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Every time one of these cases comes along, doctor, everyone has an opinion about what the typical person would do or how they would react. If you want to seek justice in a case like this, the important thing is to focus on the facts, the forensics that they can prove.
But invariably, it will get into a discussion and a proper of evidence about whether their relationship was normal, whether she seemed distant, whether she cried in the corner sometimes. And often, that may not equal justice. That may not necessarily mean a murderous intent. So, the important thing here is that as a public, we have to focus on the actual facts.
Can the prosecution meet their burden? And if they can`t, look for them to start dredging up all kinds of history. Now, in the case of Jodi Arias, it was probably germane. But maybe not in every case.
PINSKY: All right, guys. Thank you so much.
Up next, I`ve got the bride`s bizarre behavior at her husband`s funeral. That is coming up in the "Behavior Bureau."
And later on, a drunk driver`s online confession. It is a video that has gone viral and I`ve got some thoughts about this that, perhaps, will surprise you. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Shortly after Cody Johnson died, his wife reportedly posted a wedding photo on Instagram with a caption that read, you guys got to see this, quote, "Miss you so much, Cody. Not a day will go by where I don`t think about you. I know you`re in a better place now looking down on me. You`re my angel. See you again one day."
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: It`s like Jodi!
PINSKY: There you go.
PINSKY: There you go.
PINSKY: That`s just like Jodi Arias said -- she said that Jodi said, Travis was in a better place, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Time for the "Behavior Bureau." Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. We are talking about the newlywed wife now charged with the murder death of her husband. He was pushed off a cliff eight days into their marriage. Joining us, criminologist, Casey Jordan, host of "Wives with Knives" on Investigation Discovery, psychologist, Judy Ho, clinical and forensic psychologist, Cheryl Arutt, Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."
OK, Casey, I`m going to ask you this. Do you see some of the similarities here between our new murderer, Jordan, alleged murderer, and Jodi Arias?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Yes. I mean, they`re both poster children for anti-social personality disorder. I mean, it`s amazing, the swapping of the stories, the telling of one story, the alibi, then changing it, then telling half-truths. And forensically, nothing that Jordan is saying could be true. She says, you know, first of all, she had this setup where she`s going to like tell her friends that if something bad happens, you know, it`s because we had a fight.
So, she`s already claiming for self-defense, but she couldn`t control her impulses. She says that he grabbed her arm, but she pushed him from behind. It doesn`t work that way. So, there`s a lot of similarities.
PINSKY: But Casey, shouldn`t we have seen some previous history of something to help us sort of nail down this idea that she has these sorts of personality problems?
JORDAN: Well, the number one trait in my mind is usually manipulation. I think that she had a certain side to herself that she showed to Cody that made him love her and want to marry her. And tell his parents that after they got married, she would change. I think poor Cody was a fixer. He thought that he could fix those things about her, the detachment that his friends talk about.
And what you have is somebody who`s just a chameleon. She`s just giving people what they want at the given moment to get what she wants.
PINSKY: Now, Cody`s friend said Jordan actually exhibited some bizarre behavior not only at her own wedding, but also at Cody`s funeral. I want you to see this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAXIMINO ROCHA, CODY`S FRIEND AND CO-WORKER: Her emotional display was just casual. It was as we were talking right now about something and not even about Cody. We were just talking about the weather.
FREDRICKSON: She was on her phone, whether it was texting or mobile app. During the wedding, when they were exchanging vows, Jordan was looking down and wasn`t looking at Cody when she was exchanging vows. She couldn`t even look at him. It was odd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Cheryl, is this more evidence of what Casey is talking about or are we just over scrutinizing this woman?
CHERYL ARUTT, PH.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, this absolutely could be evidence, Dr. Drew, of what Casey is talking about. The detachment, the way that there are all these different stories, the things that don`t add up forensically, but there are so many mysteries here that we don`t know yet.
Why, if she had doubts, did she marry this guy? Why, if she didn`t want to marry him, did she just break up with him or leave him? Why did she take that moment and push him off the cliff? We really don`t know enough about this to really, definitively, know what`s going on here. But she did something really heinous here.
PINSKY: And then lied about it. Jenny, you have a comment here?
HUTT: I do. Look, my comment is about her behavior subsequently at the funeral or at her wedding. People do different things to disappear or distract themselves sometimes when they`re under stress.
HUTT: So, I don`t know that that means she killed him. I think she probably did. But I don`t know that that behavior means she definitely did it.
PINSKY: Judy, I`m going to give you a piece of information here. Apparently, Cody took an increasing interest in religion shortly after he started dating. Now, one of Cody`s friends indicated that Jordan was, quote, "very religious," unquote. I even heard the word "hyperreligious" being tossed around.
Could that maybe explain why Cody was pulling away from his friends and family? He was sort of trying to impress her and get involved in her religious occupation, preoccupations?
JUDY HO, PH.D., DR.JUDYHO.COM: Yes, Dr. Drew. Everywhere, when you read these reports, it shows that Cody was so much more involved in this relationship than Jordan. And he has been in love with her since the minute he`s met her. That`s a lot of the reports that we`re getting from friends.
And so, part of his attraction to some of the things that she`s interested in is to show her his commitment to her. And I feel like at this point, Jordan is such a serial liar. How do we even know that this last version of the story, this last admission or confession is even true?
HO: So, you know, there are just so many questions here. But I think that she`s masking this religious, sort of, you know, kind of -- I guess it`s sort of like a smoke screen, that, you know, maybe she`s a good girl and maybe she`s a girl that abides by moral values and people just kind of miss the mark with her.
PINSKY: And you know what`s interesting to me. Danine Manette, I know you`re going to take this some place that`s going to disturb me as you often do. Casey`s already there. But Danine, I know you can count on you to really go somewhere with it. But, you know, there`s a guy that studies, I`m blanking on his name, maybe you guys can help me. Fallon, I believe, his name is. He studies psychopaths.
HUTT: David Fallon.
PINSKY: And he studies psychopaths. And he, himself, has one of these brains that is prone to psychopathic behaviors and he said he was steeped in religiosity at one point in his life and he felt that that might have been the compensation for some of this psychopathic biology. But Danine, what are your thoughts?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: My thoughts are that this seems to be a classic give and take relationship where one person is doing all the giving and the other person is doing all the taking. He seems to be so enamored with her that he was going to change his way of life, change his religion and everything just to please her, because he loved her so much. And she probably treated him like he was a door mat.
And, you know, the thing that gets me is not so much that she pushed him over the side, because she can use self-defense for that. But the fact that she left him laying there for a couple of days. Chances are he wasn`t even dead when he hit the bottom, but she left him laying there and didn`t say anything.
So, he probably died on the ground after a few days. Is the autopsy saying what killed him? Was it the fall or, you know, did he die from hypothermia?
PINSKY: As I predicted, Danine, you did not disappoint me. I am now disturbed.
PINSKY: Next up, though -- thank you, panel.
MANETTE: You weren`t already?
PINSKY: I got some thoughts on this video you`re looking at. Yes, I was disturbed already, you`re right. But, of course, you guys take me places that make my skin crawl.
My thoughts on a drunk driver`s online confession and my thoughts may surprise you. I`ll get the panel`s thoughts. We`ll be back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I killed a man.
PINSKY (voice-over): He drove drunk and he killed a man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Matthew Cordle. And on June 22nd, 2013, I hit and killed Vincent Canzani.
PINSKY: Tonight, Matthew Cordle`s online drunk driving confession leads to charges of vehicular manslaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This video will act as my confession.
PINSKY: His admission has nearly two million YouTube hits. Some sympathizers say his confession is courageous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I get charged, I will plead guilty and take full responsibility for everything I`ve done to Vincent and his family.
PINSKY: But what do you think of Matthew, his confessions, and his message?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m begging you, please don`t drink and drive.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt and our "Behavior Bureau." Joining us as well, John Templeton. He, himself, drove drunk and killed an 18-year-old young girl. Now, 22-year-old Matthew Cordle faces up to 8 1/2 years behind bars for the death of 61-year-old Vincent Canzani. Matthew posted this drunk driving confession last week on the website so-called, BecauseISaidIWould.com.
Listen, Casey, I`m going to go to you first. You cannot argue with the begging of people not to drink and drive. That message is unassailable. That message. This kid`s video, however, I don`t buy it. I don`t know about you. I think this is a ploy.
JORDAN: And what do you think it`s going to get him? Because as a defense attorney, I can tell you, he`s officially screwed. He has put it on tape, he signed a card, he held it up for the camera. Yes, it`s a social media ploy, but in terms of his defense, he has to take whatever the judge gives him at this point. He may get a few little sympathy points for being, I wouldn`t call it courageous, I would simply doing the right thing.
But other than that, I think it brings nothing to the table. And I think we should actually give him some credit for doing the right thing. There`s no --
PINSKY: If he does it. If he does it, though. And by the way, doing the right thing when you`re an alcoholic, which this guy seems to be, is to commit yourself to treatment, which I didn`t hear him say one thing about. John, I want your thoughts on this.
JOHN TEMPLETON, KILLED TEEN IN DRUNK DRIVING ACCIDENT: Dr. Drew, I was very moved by the video. I, myself, was in his position. I think that it was very therapeutic for him. I understand that taking somebody`s life is a burden I carry every day. And it feels like there`s a hole in your soul.
And trying to help others gives that yourself some sort of purpose in bring memory to the victims. I think he was trying to do it for therapy, for himself.
PINSKY: I don`t know. You`re going to hear right now. Danine, tell us what you think that strategy was all about?
MANETTE: Well, I think that -- you mean, as far as him pleading not guilty today?
PINSKY: The fact that he said he was going to be guilty, that the judge seemed so upset. What was all going on there?
MANETTE: Well, number one, I don`t know why the judge was so upset. To me, if she changed her schedule in order to put this on calendar so that they could enter a plea today and she didn`t get the plea that she wanted, I`m sorry, but I think that his constitutional right to fair and effective assistance with counsel should trump her scheduling conflict.
In any event, I think that this was something that his attorneys did because they probably saw or got the impression from some of the judge`s statements that are being made that she was maybe not going to be as lenient or maybe not going to consider his confession in her sentencing and they figured they`d probably roll the dice and enter a plea next time so that the judge that they entered the plea with, the guilty plea, will be the one that does the sentencing.
PINSKY: So if I understand this correctly -- Danine, if I understand this correctly, he set it up to give a guilty plea with a tape that the judge wouldn`t look at in order to put a not guilty plea in to get a different judge?
MANETTE: Well, I don`t know when they decided to change the plea from guilty to not guilty. They can do that right before they walk into the courtroom.
PINSKY: But they did, didn`t they? But they did it.
MANETTE: And if the attorneys decided that it was in the best interest of their client, because they are the one who`s advocating for him. If they decide that this judge may not be as impartial as they want, then maybe they want to roll the dice --
PINSKY: I get you. We`ve got to take a break. More with the "Behavior Bureau." And if you have a question for any of our experts, tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau. We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHERYL OATES, VICTIM`S WIFE: It`s gut wrenching coming from a mother looking at that young boy. And he just doesn`t understand the damage that he did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Casey, that`s basically my reaction. Our "Behavior Bureau," of course, is back. Jenny Hutt with me. I want to give you a tweet here that just got sent to me. Let me put it out for you. It says, "Who the hell are you to call Cordle an alcoholic?" Listen, that`s what happens when people drink and drive and black out. Blacking out is a sign of alcoholism, consequence side of alcoholism. I`m just hedging my bet. I bet that`s we got here (ph).
And the point is all of that is missed in the confession that people with an illness need to focus on treatment. And yes, anybody else using alcohol need to take heed to his message. Casey, your reaction?
JORDAN: OK. I`m going to agree that he has a problem with alcohol. I don`t want to split hairs over whether he is an alcoholic. But I really do want to give him credit, because I agree, this could be a ploy. But my goodness, it`s a great first step. There is no atheist in the foxhole. And this guy is looking at 8 1/2 years and he`s doing soul searching about what he can do.
Yes, he is scared. But usually, scared people let their defense attorneys try to get that blood test or breathalyzer thrown out, which in his video, he says his attorneys advised him they could get him off.
JORDAN: So, for him to face the camera --
HUTT: But here`s what I think. I think that there is a bit of wanting to win in the court of public opinion, Dr. Drew. I do think he wants people to like him even if the book`s going to be thrown at him and he`s going to be in jail for 8 1/2 years. I do think that his call to don`t drive drunk is the most important.
PINSKY: Unassailable. Unassailable, that message.
PINSKY: Judy, what do you say?
HO: Well, I agree with Jenny. You know, I think the social media angle is an indication that it is a ploy. I mean, there`s a lot of different reasons why he could have put up that video. You know, to get sympathy votes, to get his 15 minutes of fame.
But, you know, I think most importantly, he says in the video himself, I could have gotten off, I could have taken this alternate route, and I didn`t. So, he like demonstrated for the public what he did.
PINSKY: But Jody, let`s remind ourselves, he pled not guilty today. Is that not the case --
HO: Exactly, exactly!
PINSKY: What, Casey, what?
JORDAN: He has to get to the plea bargaining --
PINSKY: With the new judge, though, with a new judge, right?
HO: He just went back on his word in the video.
PINSKY: Guys, I`m sorry. They`re telling many we`re out of time. We`ve got to keep this conversation going, but not tonight. Back after this.
PINSKY: That is a live look at Lower Manhattan. Beacons of light where the tower -- beacons of hope where the towers once stood. We all remember where we were 12 years ago when our country was attacked by terrorists. Take a moment to acknowledge the nearly 3,000 people killed, people at work, people walking down the street, rescuers, passengers on the planes. A number of remembrances today. We will leave you with just a look at some of them. Good night.