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A Mother`s Anguish; Kidnap Mystery
Aired September 18, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a mother`s heartbreak.
CATHLEEN ALEXIS, SHOOTER`S MOM: I don`t know why he did what he did and I`ll never be able to ask him why.
PINSKY: Her son killed 12 people then he was shot dead. Can mom help us understand what made him murder? The pastor who was by her side will join me exclusively.
Plus, a 14-year-old girl kidnapped during a home invasion is found alive. Is there a connection between the kidnappers and her family? The behavior bureau is looking for clues.
And, the drunk driver who confessed online to killing a man makes good on his promise.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM Radio host, Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, a teen kidnapped is home and safe tonight. Did her mom, though, Jenny, know one of the abductors? We`re going to hear some reports about that.
But first off, the Navy base massacre, a picture of the man who killed 12 people, is becoming clearer, beginning with a statement from his own mother. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re hearing from the shooter`s mother for the first time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She didn`t answer any questions, did not deviate from her prepared statement.
ALEXIS: Our son, Aaron Alexis, has murdered 12 people. I don`t know why he did what he did and I`ll never be able to ask him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was seen shooting the tires out of a parked car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alexis said those voices were sending vibrations into his body, using some sort of microwave machine. Eight instances of misconduct, including insubordination, disorderly conduct, and unauthorized absences.
Two days before the shooting, Alexis stops at this small arms range. He accessed the Navy Yard with legitimate ID.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, police confirm five people shot. Could be others.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Investigative reporter Rita Cosby joins us.
Rita, what have you got?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Well, Dr. Drew, imagine being the mother of Navy Yard killer Aaron Alexis. Tonight, she released an audio-only recording, where she sounds heartbroken and says she feels sorry for the victims and their families.
Now, we should know more assume about how Aaron Alexis died, where he was shot after being cornered by the cops, and if he was on any medication or illegal drugs. Autopsy results are expected tomorrow. Investigators did find some cryptic carvings that Alexis wrote on the shotgun that he used for the massacre, and there are lots of questions about who knew what, about his troubled past and prior arrests. We know Rhode Island police reported a bizarre encounter that they had with Alexis at a hotel where he said he heard voices and that the microwave was keeping him awake and sending vibrations through his body, among many other crazy things.
Now, we`re learning that the police report only went so far as the naval station in Rhode Island, and not to the navy in general or others -- Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, Rita. That`s very interesting.
And yes, crazy, indeed. Those are psychotic symptoms. That`s what that is.
Jenny, with us tonight -- Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Crystal Wright from conservativeblackchick.com, attorney and CNN legal analyst, Danny Cevallos, and HLN`s own Lynn Berry.
Now, you just heard the voice of the shooter`s mom, Kathleen Alexis. Mark, do you have any thoughts on that?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Yes, I feel for her, Dr. Drew.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Yes.
EIGLARSH: I mean, I have three very young children. We all have hopes and dreams for our children. This probably wasn`t on her top five things that she envisioned for her son. I mean, this is sad and --
PINSKY: Crystal --
EIGLARSH: -- my concern, Dr. Drew --
EIGLARSH: My concern is anybody that may put blame on her without any specific knowledge that somehow she knew of his plan, she knew of significant mental illness that would then lead to this tragic shooting. My guess is she didn`t have a clue.
PINSKY: That`s, Crystal, what I want to ask you about, because let`s say she was aware that he was struggling with something. Do we have to blame parents if a mental illness is not attended to by an adult child?
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Well, no, because I think Mark makes some great points here, that from what I understand, Aaron Alexis was estranged from his family, Dr. Drew, his mother and his father. I don`t know if they`re together, was that`s what I read.
But I want to go back to something that we`re ignoring. We`ve talked about this in the past. I had family members that have struggled with depression and black Americans are reluctant to go seek help when they are mentally depressed or have mental disorders.
And this is -- and I think Aaron Alexis is a prime example of this. I don`t think he told his mother. All the people that were intimate -- I mean, to the -- intimately, I mean --
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Crystal, he did seek help --
WRIGHT: No, no, no. He went to the V.A. --
BERRY: He went to the V.A. asking for help.
WRIGHT: Excuse me. OK, but can I finish? Because this is a very important point.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
WRIGHT: I know there my experience with my own family members who were undiagnosed for decades, OK, did not get diagnosed until they`re way into their adult years, because of the stigma on getting -- seeking help, when you`re mentally ill. So I don`t -- I feel for his here, like Mark said. It`s tragic. I don`t think she knew, Dr. Drew.
Look, he lived with people who didn`t know.
PINSKY: But, Crystal --
WRIGHT: So, I don`t --
PINSKY: I would layer on that. It`s actually a concern I`ve had for a long time. Not only is there stigma within the African-American community, and you`re calling it out, but I know also African-American colleagues, friends, and patient don`t trust mental health reasonably so, because throughout history, they have not been served well by that community.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
WRIGHT: I have a great grandfather who was locked up in a loony bin because their family didn`t know how to deal with him. You know what the mental institution did? They just threw him away and pumped him with drugs. There was no psychotherapy or anything.
And I would argue --
PINSKY: So --
WRIGHT: -- black Americans are under diagnosed.
HUTT: Hold on --
PINSKY: Jenny, go ahead. But just to raise a really important point here, it`s another direction that this story takes us.
HUTT: Listen, I think it`s a very valid point, but I would to add to it, that I would have rather that someone would have taken the time to look -- as we said last night -- red flag that was Aaron Alexis and dosed him up and put him somewhere where he couldn`t hurt people.
Now, going back to his mother`s statement, I mean, I really felt for her. Our kids can grow up and do wacky things that might embarrass us, but we never in our wildest dream imagine that something like this will happen. And I thought she handled herself as she possibly could under this set of circumstances. She just seemed really heartbroken, really sincerely heartbroken.
PINSKY: I got in trouble last night -- Lynn, I got in trouble last night for saying that I felt bad for the shooter, not that I forgive him or that it`s not horrific what he did, but he -- he died too, of this mental illness with, that he -- that you are our community, my peers, perhaps, let him down and this thing spiraled out of control to where he became a monster.
BERRY: Well, and, Crystal, you make a great point about a larger issue at hand. But Aaron Alexis was out there and there was a lot of reason to believe that this guy had some disturbing characteristics. We heard a little bit earlier about those carvings in the gun that he used. One of them --
PINSKY: I`ll tell you what they are, Lynn. I`ve got it here, if you would scroll for -- I`ve got it written on my thing here. Here we go. They were better off this way." There we are. And "my ELF weapon." If anyone knows what the heck that stands for, I`m all ears.
But, Lynn, do you have any idea?
BERRY: Well, that`s the thing I was going to stay. It`s not like the mythical creature or Santa`s helper when it says "elf," it`s capital "ELF."
And there have been a lot of experts weighing in on this and some speculate it means extremely low frequency. That can refer to weather or communications and the reason that this is important is because we heard that Rhode Island police yesterday announced that back on October -- or on August 7th, he went to police and said he was hearing things from people that were sending microwave signals through his body. Also, delusional, paranoia, all of these things that we keep going back to, that this was a guy that police had their eye on, that had eight different misconduct with the Navy. That was honorably discharged out of the Navy, because they say that they didn`t have enough evidence to make it dishonorable.
But this was a guy that should have been red flagged. That`s the point.
WRIGHT: But, Lynn, I never defended Aaron Alexis --
BERRY: I`m not saying you did.
WRIGHT: I`m saying the blame should be on the state and federal lawmakers and the military, the Department of Defense. All those --
PINSKY: And the medical system. I`m prepared --
WRIGHT: He bought a gun two days before the shooting. He passed the national background check, guys.
BERRYT: He had a permit in Washington state.
WRIGHT: Hello! We`re failing! We`re failing.
PINSKY: Hang on. Danny, poor Danny has been very quiet there. I wonder what he`s got to tell us. Go ahead, Danny.
DANNY CEVALLOS, ATTORNEY: Doctor, guns are already the most heavily regulated consumer goods in the United States. We talk about keeping them out of the hands of the mentally ill. That`s a nice idea in theory.
But let`s talking real-world application. The states have the right to enact their own gun laws. You want to talk about regulating guns some more? I don`t have a problem with that.
But short of repealing the Second Amendment, which we`re getting close to, and again, which I wouldn`t have a problem with either, the bottom line is, claiming that we have to keep these guns out of the hands out of people, well, how do we do that? It`s easy to say that. How do we --
HUTT: But wait, wait, wait, wait.
CEVALLOS: The direction we`re doing -- the direction we`re going is we`re hearing everyone read the tea leaves of things he carved in his weapon or video games that he played. Doctor --
PINKSY: Wait, hold on, everybody! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!
Danny, you asked me a question, and, Mark, you`ll get a chance to speak. Danny, ask that question again.
CEVALLOS: Well, we hear people reading into what he carved into a gun and whether that should have been a red flag. Let me ask you, Doctor, at what point -- how far do we go reading into the erratic, eccentric behavior after the fact, and say, that should have been a red flag? It`s easy to say now, isn`t it?
WRIGHT: How about the gun position?
WRIGHT: Come on, Danny, you`re being ridiculous --
PINSKY: No, he`s not. Something like the procedure we go through like give people medicine in an emergency situation. You have two or three people assess him, if all agree, the guy does not get a gun. That`s it. Boom. Done. You have a paperwork, you have a system you put in. The guy does not get a gun.
Mark, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: Drew, OK, you had said earlier, any heard you correctly, that you felt bad for the shooter because it was his mental illness that caused him to die and thus was responsible for his actions. I ask you, then, if that`s the theory -- does it matter if we`re talking about protecting us from guns? He could have a knife, he could create a bomb, he could do anything, if your theory is accurate.
PINSKY: Those are all things I would be very concerned about. And I -- again, as we unfold the Aurora, Colorado, shooting, those are things that people think about a lot and try to figure out how to prevent these things from happening, when our ability to do so is highly, highly restricted.
Panel, hang on.
Next up, I`ve got the pastor who was with Cathleen Alexis when she read her apology. He was by our side. And he will be by our side in a minute. He`s going to join us.
And later, a 14-year-old girl abducted in a home invasion has now been found alive. The question that`s being asked, though, is there a connection between the kidnappers and her family. Some interesting reporting going on there.
We`ll be right back after this with more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
ALEXIS: Aaron is now in a place where he can no longer do harm to anyone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want them to know she lived. She`s not a number.
ALEXIS: His actions have had a profound and everlasting effect on the families of the victims.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want people to remember him as a victim, because he never was in his life and he never will be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he always said, "Goodbye, beautiful, I love you so much."
ALEXIS: To the families of the victims, I am so, so very sorry that that has happened. My heart is broken. I`m done.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: So, so sad. Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt and Mark, Crystal, Danny, Lynn still with me.
Before I go to my guest, I want to read a tweet that came across my desk for Crystal. If you put that up there for me. It`s from Mike_Goodlander. "Crystal and Drew, wish it that crystal always says that we`re failing."
WRIGHT: Because we are, as a society. You know --
PINSKY: I figured you were going to say that.
WRIGHT: Parents are failing kids. Our culture is failing, because like you said, Dr. Drew, we`re so concerned with being politically correct, we will not face the ugliness in our country.
Ugliness meaning the things that are harming us as people. Mental illness, being, the number one thing. I mean, there`s many other things that we have talked about on this program, but I`m sorry. I talk about the failings because I want us to do better. I want us to be a better America.
And better -- I mean, my heart bleeds for Aaron and the victims -- Aaron`s mom and the victims. I don`t know how anybody can watch that and not want to cry.
PINSKY: Oh, yes. And you`re right, there`s A, yes, the main of this story is just overwhelming. And, B, the other point, we`ve got a lot of room for improvement. We could be better. We actually could not fail in these areas.
All right, I want to introduce -- Crystal, I want to introduce my guest. His name is Bishop Gerald Seabrooks. He is, in fact, the pastor who was with the shooter`s mom when she recorded her statement.
Bishop Seabrooks, thank you so much for joining us. Let me start with this.
How is she doing tonight, the mom?
GERALD SEABROOKS, BISHOP, HELPING SHOOTER`S MOM (via telephone): Well, she`s still grieving, and under a tremendous amount of grief. Very sad. Suffering from insomnia. She`s not able to sleep right now.
And thinking about the victims and their families and hopefully that they will accept, you know, her condolences and sympathy for the loss of their loved ones.
PINSKY: I see my panel seems anxious to want to speak to you. I`m going to start with Mark and then Jenny.
Mark, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: Bishop, I read that the mom somehow in part blames herself. I don`t know if that`s true or not, but if she does, I`m wondering if she said anything to you and what those words might have been.
SEABROOKS: Well, one of the things I said to her was, I hope you`re not blaming yourself, and she said, I am. And I told her, look, you`re a victim in this, just like the other victims.
But she is blaming herself. She feels very, very, very bad. Suffering a lot of pain.
HUTT: How are the people in the community treating her, in her community? Is she being supported or is she being ostracized? Are they taking care of her?
SEABROOKS: No, there`s no fear at all. The community is rallying around her.
SEABROOKS: The community doesn`t see her as having anything to do with this. This is an action that was taken by her adult son. So, the community is rallying around her.
PINSKY: And, Lynn?
BERRY: I noticed, Bishop, that she did this just through audio. She didn`t reveal her identity. Is that because she`s receiving backlash outside of the community from strangers somehow associated with this?
SEABROOKS: She didn`t indicate that to me. She was just pulling the pieces, very, very remorseful, very sad, and I think that`s the reason why she didn`t want to come in front of the cameras right now. But she didn`t reveal anything about anybody saying anything negative. She did say that the press had written information that was misleading.
BERRY: Like what?
PINSKY: Crystal, I know you always have tough questions, so, Bishop, buckle up.
Crystal, you got something for the bishop?
WRIGHT: Well, Bishop, I just want to thank you for being there for his mother. And I know this is beyond imagine -- you know, none of us can imagine it.
But I want to ask you, when was the last time she spoke with Aaron? I was understanding that they weren`t -- that he had been estranged from the immediate family?
SEABROOKS: Mm-hmm. She didn`t say that to me, Crystal, so I couldn`t tell you, but he hasn`t been to Brooklyn for a while. I can tell you that much. So, I don`t know if they spoke by telephone. That`s (INAUDIBLE)
What`s remarkable at her is fact that she wasn`t contemplating on Aaron, but on the victims.
WRIGHT: I think that`s great.
PINSKY: That`s nice.
WRIGHT: God bless her.
PINSKY: That`s appropriate.
CEVALLOS: Yes, Bishop, do you get the impression, in talking to her, that law enforcement, on any level, is interested in looking at her or talking to her and assessing whether or not she may have been had any responsibility? Do you get the feeling she feels that way?
SEABROOKS: I didn`t draw that. I didn`t draw that feeling from her, no.
CEVALLOS: Has law enforcement reached out to you, Bishop?
SEABROOKS: Law enforcement definitely reached out. I`m with the New York City Clergy Task Force and, yes, I was sent there by the clergy task force to, you know, give my services and be a part of it, Commissioner Kelly.
So, yeah, law enforcement has been great in New York City.
As a matter of fact, there are police officers in front of her door to keep all those people away. So, yes, I think the law enforcement in New York has been great.
PINSKY: Mark next, but hold on, before you ask that, next, I`m going to ask Gerald, Bishop -- Bishop, you`re in the middle of all of this. You`ve been through other counseling circumstances. Can you help -- there`s something you want to say or can say to your viewers to help us all make sense of this?
SEABROOKS: I think America needs to turn back to god. I think that the problem here is a spiritual problem that we`re having. And it`s good to bring people up with morals. It`s good to bring people up knowing the difference between right and wrong.
But I think what`s happening in our country, it`s diabolical. I think that there are spirits that are controlling people, and making people do things to harm other people. So the Scripture says, the enemy comes to kill, steal, destroy, and rob -- and I think that`s what we`re facing in America right now.
EIGLARSH: As a follow-up to my question I asked you earlier, I`m wondering if specifically she said anything that she would have done differently. Like, she`s blaming herself. I`m wondering if she`s said, I wish I would have done something, I wish -- I`m just wondering what she said to you about that?
SEABROOKS: She didn`t indicate that. She`s just sitting there, very remorse and with a spirit that, I guess, I wish I could have turned this around, but how could she? I mean, she couldn`t have known this was going to happen.
PINSKY: Bishop Gerald Seabrooks, thank you so much for joining us this evening and thank you for helping the shooter`s mother. Thank you for helping us to try to make sense of this tonight. I hope you`ll join us again as this thing unfolds.
Next up, I`ve got to switch gears, because we`re talking about a 14- year-old girl taken by two armed men during a home invasion. She has now been found alive. But there are those reporting the possibility of a connection between and amongst the kidnappers and her family. The behavior bureau is going to look at that evidence.
And later, the drunk driver what had confessed online to killing a man. You remember that video. Well, we`re going to hear what he says now in court and what`s up, the latest with that case.
Back in a moment.
PINSKY: Time for the behavior bureau.
Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt.
A 14-year-old, her name is Ayvani Perez, kidnapped from her home in the middle of the night, was found alive and unharmed today. Two men are in custody, two suspects are apparently still at large. There are many questions tonight.
But before we go to this tape, Jenny, I want to show you something to finish up our last block. This is a tweet that came in from @lizzz.
"Statement for all, regardless of color." Just to close that story, I think she had a good point there -- we were talking about stigma in the African-American community, this stigma across the board. Would you agree?
HUTT: Yes, I would. Mental illness, there`s a stigma for everybody. Unfortunately, it shouldn`t be that way.
PINSKY: All right, now, I want to get to the tape about this kidnapping and this young girl who has been found alive tonight. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is safe. She is safe.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Police say gunman snatched a 14-year- old girl in the dead of night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was taken at gunpoint, as we mentioned, nearly 34 hours ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She tried to hide the kids. The dog was barking and these suspects shot the dog.
They demanded money and jewelry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead, those gunman took Ayvani Perez.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There has been a report about a ransom demand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ayvani Perez was taken in the middle of the night, still wearing her "Star Wars" pajamas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police now say Ayvani Perez has been found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police confirmed just a short time ago, they have found her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are several other subjects, suspects, that we are still investigating.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Joining us, Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Psychologist Judy Ho, criminologist Casey Jordan, host of "Wives with Knives" on Investigation Discovery, and criminal investigator, Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal". HLN`s Jane Velez-Mitchell is on the phone.
Jane, I know this story gets you in the chest, because a dog was shot in the course of this kidnapping. What have you got for the latest?
VELEZ-MITCHELL (via telephone): Well, I am thrilled that the dog survived, but I am much more thrilled, Dr. Drew, that this precious, innocent 14-year-old girl, Ayvani Perez, who was kidnapped in this terrifying, terrifying home invasion early Tuesday has turned up safe and sound. She is back home with her family. They ever reunited.
But I`ve got to tell you, Dr. Drew, the not-so-good news, a back story emerging tonight. According to WSB TV in Atlanta, allegedly connecting the girl`s mom to one of the men arrested in connection with the kidnapping.
Now, cops arrested 29-year-old Rodrigo Jackson (ph), as well as 40- year-old Juan Rodriguez (ph) in connection with this alleged abduction.
WSB reporting tonight that law enforcement forces confirmed to them that one of those men, Rodriguez, who, by the way, just being held on immigration charges right now, was arrested with the girl`s mother last year in some kind of drug bust, reportedly, according to other published reports involving pot. But the mother`s record was later expunged. We have no idea why.
So, apparently there`s a whole lot more to this story.
Now, what`s also very interesting, Dr. Drew, is the men arrested, who I just referenced, do not match the sketch of the suspect who kidnapped the child. So, authorities are still looking for other people. It`s very, very complicated.
PINSKY: It`s very -- yes, Jane, thank you so much for that report. It`s complicated. It`s evolving as we speak. I want to repeat what Jane just reported to us, Danine.
According to the affiliate, WSB, it`s one of our affiliates, the mother had reportedly been arrested in 2012 for drug trafficking with one of those suspects.
So, Danine, while Jane was saying that, I saw you nodding your head vigorously. What does this mean to you?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Dr. Drew, from the time I first heard this story, before I heard about the connection between the mom and one of the suspects, my B.S. detector went off.
There are so many things about this story, as it was reported, that just do not, do not sound right to me. The whole fact that the police -- that the suspects came in and held at gunpoint and the daughter was taken away. If there was ever a situation where it was over my dead body, it was as if someone was trying to take my child with a gun. You would find me riddled with bullets on the floor next to the dog, because there`s no way you`re going to walk away with my child. I don`t understand that part.
The neighbor was talking about, there was no screaming and yelling at all. She didn`t hear anything outside, it was quiet, which means the mother was not being drug down the street, like I would be, saying "they took my child!" I mean, you know? So many things just don`t -- that don`t add up. They ask for money and they ask for jewelry, but they took a person.
You can pawn money and jewelry, but what are they going to do with a person? I knew from the moment I heard this that this was something personal and they had an agenda and that they were going in there to settle some type of score. So, that was my initial impression. So, now, it all fits together.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: It`s starting to fit together, anyway. I always like when we get to learn something in these panels. And tonight, I learned that I would not mess with Danine. Casey --
MANETTE: Good move!
PINSKY: I already knew that, actually, I think. But Casey, I wonder if you agree, because I imagine this does sort of -- and again, you always -- can I tell you, I have some statistics, Casey, I`m going to show the viewers. Can you, guys, get that for me? The full screen of what percentage of violent home invasions or violent home robberies -- I actually know off the top of my head.
It`s something like 65 percent, if we can show it up there. So, my question to you, Casey, is if -- is that number accurate? Like 60 -- a significant majority of people who are home invasion victims and then even those that are kidnapped, know the perpetrator. Is that correct?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Absolutely. It`s such a high-risk crime. You`re going to know the people in the house, having cased the joint. I mean, of course, this made me think of the Cheshire home invasion where they didn`t know the subjects, but they saw them at the stop and shop. You know, they followed them home. They watched. They learned the routine.
They`re never 100 percent random. Nobody walks don`t down the street and says, I like this house, let`s go and bust in to that door and see if they have any cash and jewelry. It doesn`t work that way. So, I am absolutely in agreement that the motive is very complex, that they undoubtedly knew the mother.
You know, it isn`t confirmed, but I think there is a connection there. And this was revenge. Apparently, if she was involved with them, in some sort of crime, and she got her record expunged, they are mad about that, and they feel like they are owed money. If she did not have cash to hand to them, I don`t know that taking the daughter was part of the plan, but they may have done that in desperation. And the mom, because she knows who --
PINSKY: Well, they did.
JORDAN: They did. How did they find these guys? They found these guys because the mom recognized them and told the police. Look, this is -- you know, I think there could be this connection. They`re not telling us how they found her. And I think that`s because the mom knew exactly who they were and why they were there.
PINSKY: And Sam, I don`t know if you know these details, but apparently, they originally asked a $10,000 ransom for the girl and then a $100,000 ransom. Is that right?
JORDAN: I don`t believe that.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right. You`re absolutely right. Those are the reports, but I don`t believe it either. And I agree with Casey here.
I think she hit the nail on the head, and the Danine, I think that there was some sort of score to settle with the mother, because if she was complicit in some way, as some people have suggested earlier when I was reading on social media, if she was complicit, I don`t think it would have been so violent of a home invasion.
I mean, gunshots were fired. The dog was shot. The daughter was taken away. So, I do think it was settling a score.
PINSKY: Jenny, finish it up. We`ve got to go to break.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: First of all, I agree with Danine. I would get up, don`t come near my kids. Number two, there were tremendous amount of resources employed in finding this kid. There`s a bigger story here, Dr. drew. I think we`re going to find much deeper stuff going on than what it looks like, for sure.
PINSKY: OK. Police say that Perez is in good health, physically. But, we`ve got to wonder about mental state and how she`s doing. Now, she`s holding out what she`s been through.
JORDAN: And if she was sexually assaulted.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness. Thank you, guys, for always taking this -- makes me very unhappy.
Later on, the drunk driver in the viral video watched by millions of people back in court today. Got an earful from the judge. You`ll hear about that after this.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," we`ve two bold questions for our in-studio jury. Both involving confessions on social media. Bold question number one, should the judge watch the DUI confession video? He was in court today. We`ll have the latest on that.
Then bold question number two, did the Facebook killer just snap? We`ve got surveillance video from inside the home, when he took the picture, killed his wife and posted it. Two verdicts tonight "After Dark."
PINSKY: Back with the "Behavior Bureau" and my co-host, Jenny Hutt, talking about a 14-year-old, Ayvani Perez, found safe today after having been abducted by armed gunman. Something about it Danine finds funny, I`m not sure what.
HUTT: Yes, what?
PINSKY: Maybe something one of the producers said. Give her a break, Jenny. I`m not sure.
MANETTE: I`m chasing a bug in the studio.
PINSKY: OK, all right. Fair enough. I figured it was something. So, one of the suspects in this event is a man by the name of Wildrego Jackson (ph). Police have charged him with conspiracy to kidnap. There he is. And there were a couple of other guys apparently involved in this. There`s so much confusing about this case.
I want to be like "after dark" for a second. There`s the sketches of the other guys, allegedly, that, again, the mom says that are out there at large. Maybe, they`re not. Maybe, she made all that up. Judy, do you think she made this up?
JUDY HO, PH.D., @DRJUDYHO: Well, Dr. Drew, I think she definitely has some kind of motive to keep this a little bit on the down-low if she was actually involved a few years ago with some of these guys in a drug raid.
And I`m just imagining, you know, what this young girl`s reaction was and how everything went down, because was her mom even actively having, you know, a big reaction to her possibly being taken or was her mom thinking, oh, no, if I say something, then the police are going to find out that I actually know these people and then all of this whole bag of worms is going to get opened up again. So, I really wonder about that.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree with you. Now, I want to become like "After Dark" for a second. Are you ready? I want to make a bold assertion and I`m going to poll my panel. As a bold question, what do you think actually happened here? I`ve got an interesting diverse panel of people that may have opinions about what we suspect.
Now, we`re purely speculating, but they get to do that on "After Dark," so I get to do that now on my show. I`m going to start with Danine. What do you think actually went down here?
MANETTE: Number one, I don`t think the two Black guys even exist. I think that the two people that were arrested are the people that came in and took the child. I think the mother rolled over or made a deal with the D.A. and testified against the one guy. That`s why her case --
MANETTE: -- and she got off. And then he came back to collect either because he was mad at her or because she owed him money or drugs or something and took the daughter as a hostage --
PINSKY: If I only had a jury to poll to see if they agree with Danine. Casey, what do you think?
JORDAN: Pretty much what she said. I think that they came in, the mother recognized them. The sketches are of just fantasy people that she made up to throw the police off, because she thought she could solve it herself and go and get her daughter back. They took the daughter, not the son, because the threat of sexually assaulting the daughter would get the mom`s attention.
But, truthfully, I think they just tailed the mom. They figured it out from listening to her cell phones. That took them to the suspects. They got the girl back quickly and hopefully truly safe and sound before anything bad could happen to her. Mom`s in a lot of trouble, I`m convinced.
PINSKY: Oh, yes. Judy.
HO: Well, I think the mom is actually more cunning and more smart than we`re giving her some credit for, because maybe from that drug raid, she took some of that money. And that`s the score that they`re trying to settle. She probably took some of that. Her record was expunged. She`s getting away with this. And so they`re coming back and they`re trying to get back whatever it is that she took from them in the beginning.
SCHACHER: No, I agree. I agree with what everybody says. I mean, that`s the trouble with going last. I guess Jenny still has to go, but I agree with Danine. I think at the end of the day, that there`s some sort of score that they need to settle, and this is what they`re doing.
And I think the mom that wants to prevent herself from getting into further trouble and to further implicate herself from past actions and invented these other two.
PINSKY: Jenny, last word, but boy --
HUTT: I just said --
PINSKY: You don`t trust one another at all, do you?
HUTT: Listen, I think the big tell here is what Danine said earlier, that the mother not going crazy and making a huge ruckus and running after her kid has been taking from the house and getting shot instead of her child is the tell that she`s someway in cahoots or involve their nose or something`s funky here.
PINSKY: We all are nodding our head. That is the tell. We agree. Thank you, panel.
Up next, the drunk driver who confessed to killing a man in a viral video back before a judge today. And what he asked for, well, we`ll find out. And what the judge said to him, and then what I think about it, and what the panel thinks about it, after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I killed a man. My name is Matthew Cordle and on June 22nd, 2013, I hit and killed Vincent Canzani (ph).
PINSKY (voice-over): Tonight, Matthew Cordle`s online drunk driving confession leads to charges of vehicular manslaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This video will act as my confession.
PINSKY His admission has nearly two million YouTube hits. Some sympathizers say his confession is courageous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I get charged, I`ll plead guilty and take full responsibility for everything I`ve done to Vincent and his family. I`m begging you, please don`t drink and drive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, Lynn Berry, Danine Manette, Casey Jordan still with us. And evidently, Danine`s mosquito, too. I just saw her swatting away at that.
Twenty-two-year-old Matthew Cordle pleaded guilty today to vehicle manslaughter in the drunk driving death of poor 61-year-old Vincent Canzani (ph), then Cordle`s attorney asked the judge to approve his client`s interview with the media. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For someone to release a video confession of a crime they haven`t been charged with, I frankly have never seen anything like that before, and I think the world would like to know what Mr. Cordle`s motivations were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you`re telling me that he wishes to submit to this interview when?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, he would like to have an opportunity to do an interview tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The judge now has apparently okayed that interview, which will take place tomorrow. But let me start with Casey. Is this -- what are they up to? This is so bizarre to me. A big media interview now. He pleaded guilty today, which he said he was going to do. I was relieved to see that. But what do you think they`re up to?
JORDAN: I don`t think they`re up to anything, Drew. I`m really going to go out on the limb here, because I am very cynical. I think people typically are very manipulative. This is a sign of the times. We live in a world where social media and television is the way people communicate and the biggest way to make an impact.
I think he has a small window of opportunity. I think he`s sincere in getting his message out about drunk driving and how it`s changed his life. Could it be that he`s hoping for a lesser sentence? I`ve got to tell you, there`s no judge who`s going to give him a lesser sentence for doing the interview.
His confession was a nail in the coffin. It was a nail in the coffin. So, let`s let him take responsibility and do the right thing and try to get the word out to discourage other people from drunk driving.
PINSKY: Fair enough. Lynn, you were nodding your head vigorously at that?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Well, that`s because I used to be a producer for one of these big morning shows and it`s all about the big get and that`s because there`s this insatiable hunger for people to watch people rise and then enjoy the fall. And everyone has jumped all over this guy.
PINSKY: It`s called human sacrifice, Lynn. That`s what people -- they want to sacrifice human being, raise them up, and tear them down.
BERRY: They see a guy that has gone out there and said, I did this, please learn from me. And if there is one person, one single person that does not get in a car this weekend when they are drunk, I commend Matthew Cordle for doing this video.
PINSKY: Danine, hang on, though. Hold on. Listen, the message is unassailable. But Danine, I know you`re always a little bit more skeptical. He doesn`t remember getting in the car. He doesn`t remember anything he did that night. So, how is that -- how is his message going to be received by somebody like him?
MANETTE: Well, I believe that he doesn`t believe it -- that he doesn`t remember it, quite frankly. I believe that he blacked out and that he was just that drunk. I just think that now it`s becoming overkill. What he did initially with the YouTube video, I think that was very effective because it was very sincere and it seemed non-scripted.
But now that we`re kind of, you know, starting to do the media circuit or whatever it is that his attorneys are advocating for him to do, now, I`m kind of pushing back a little bit. I`m thinking it`s a little bit too much.
PINSKY: All right. Jenny, hold your thought. I`ll get you after the break. We`ve got Matthew Cordle next up being grilled by the judge. Don`t go away.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, and our panel. Matthew Cordle will be sentenced next month. He could get up to eight years in prison. Today, a judge asked him about the night he drove drunk. Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you there with any friends?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your friends or any acquaintances tell you when you were leaving the bar, Mr. Cordle, Matthew, if I may call you Matthew, let us drive you home, you shouldn`t be driving. Did anyone say anything to you about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no recollection, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no recollection? You have no recollection of anyone attempting to take your keys or preventing you from being behind the wheel of that car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how long had you been in that bar that evening?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no recollection either, your honor.
PINSKY: All right, Jenny, you`re up.
HUTT: OK. First of all, I think -- I commend him for taking this awful tragedy and doing what he could do now to pay it forward and try to do the right thing. And in that vein, I`m sorry, Danine, for jumping on you when you were laughing, chasing the bug. I`m a bit hormonal, and therefore, I`m sorry. There you go.
PINSKY: OK. We`re joking around a little bit about stuff in the middle of something very important.
HUTT: I`m not.
PINSKY: No, it`s true. And Casey, here`s the deal. I was criticized for suggesting this young man that we just saw in the courtroom was an alcoholic. And let me tell you what I base it on, A, he was blackout drunk, which is a symptom of alcoholism, not a diagnosis. I don`t know this kid. I can`t necessarily say he is an alcoholic.
But here`s how we define it. Blackout drunk is a symptom. The defining features are use in the face of consequences like legal problems and health problems and social problems. He`s certainly got that. Family history, we don`t know if he has a family history or not, and then denial. His denial seems to be breaking down.
However, Casey, I have not heard one suggestion that this kid is interested in getting something like treatment, which is the only way that he is not going to kill somebody again in the future.
JORDAN: I would agree. And I think that -- you know, I look at the state (ph) like he`s being forthright. I think he`s being honest. He`s credible that he was blackout drunk. He really doesn`t have a recollection. If I take one issue with his video confession, it`s that he uses the word "mistake." Boy, that really gets my ire up.
He said he made a mistake that night and his mistake was getting in the car. No! His mistake was getting blackout drunk. So, he has a long way to go in actually understanding the steps of recovery and changing his entire way of thinking.
PINSKY: That`s right.
JORDAN: It will take a long time. But prison will help.
BERRY: One thing real quick, he actually says that he has not had a single drink since that night and he actually went through two weeks of some sort of rehabilitative class in between the time he was charged and --
PINSKY: Lynn, I hate to interrupt you --
BERRY: And I know that`s not even the beginning of treatment --
PINSKY: No, no. That`s a terrible sign! That`s a terrible sign if somebody with two weeks of treatment or classes doesn`t even begin to use the language of recovery. Not even beginning to use it--
BERRY: I just wanted to add that little nugget in.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Danine, put a little button on this for me.
MANETTE: Well, you know, Dr. Drew, I`m actually quite impressed with this entire dialogue and the fact that he made this tape. I have no problem with people having their sentences lessened by taking ownership for their behavior. Number one, it stops the jury process, the court process from being so clogged.
Number two, it helps victims` families get closure. And number three, it basically allows people to take ownership and, you know, and we have --
PINSKY: Got to go. Thank you, panel. I`m with you!
MANETTE: Let`s do it.
PINSKY: "Last Call" is next. Got to go.
PINSKY: Jenny, thanks for joining me tonight. Thanks to all of you for watching. And just a reminder that "HLN After Dark" begins right now.