Return to Transcripts main page
CONNECT THE WORLD
Kenyan Siege At Westgate Mall; Germany's Next Government; Relief Via Social Media; Art of Movement: Great White Sharks; Primetime Emmys
Aired September 23, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Tonight, standoff in Nairobi as Kenyan security forces move to take control of the Westgate shopping center. I speak to a government spokesman and we hear from one survivor with a heartbreaking story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The poor boy. I tried to put my hand there to stop the bleeding. I couldn't save him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Also ahead, we'll examine the rise of the group claiming responsibility for the attack and look at how foreign fighters are helping their cause.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: Three days into a siege at a Nairobi shopping center and still no resolution to the standoff. At this hour, Kenyan forces say they have control of all floors of Westgate mall from which smoke has billowed for much of the day. But they are yet to give the all clear.
Well, 10 more bodies have been retrieved from the building. At least 62 people now confirmed dead. More than 200 citizens have been rescued, 65 of them continue to receive treatment in hospital. And Kenyan authorities say they've killed three militants at the site of the siege and arrested more than 10 people on suspicion of being involved in the attack.
Now tensions remain high as it remains unclear just how many militants and hostages remain inside the mall.
From the outside, there have been moments of calm followed by moments of chaos like this.
Crowds scatter as gunfire rang out earlier. The media, including our own Zain Verjee, among those forced to take cover.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Was that more gunfire? OK. Can we have the helmet? Where's the helmet?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Also, new pictures today from the moment the siege began on Saturday, the surveillance images showing the confusion as shoppers inside a supermarket as shots echoed throughout the mall.
Well, a reminder now of where all of this is happening. The Westgate Mall located just outside the heart of Nairobi in a tree lined residential area. The mall considered upscale and is popular with Kenyans and foreign nationals alike, including western diplomats and UN workers.
Let's get an update then from the scene. As we speak, CNN's Nima Elgabir joining us live.
The Kenyan authorities have said that they have been in control of the siege scene now for some time. But it does seem proving incredibly difficult to clear. What do we know? What are the details at this point?
NIMA ELGABIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Kenyan authorities are now saying that they believe this is the end game, that they've managed to get the hostage takers cornered in very specific locations within that building. They're basically implying that they believe that they are now in control of the situation, but the reality of course is that although they may control the vast majority of the inside of that building, those hostage takers still have hostages with them.
Again, authorities say that they have freed almost all of the hostages, but of course that means that some remain still in the hands of those militants. And that's what's making these last few hours so dangerous, so difficult and so extraordinarily critical trying to extract those remaining hostages when you're dealing with militants who are -- who have throughout this been making very, very clear that they want to die, that they do not want to be taken alive, they don't want to be forced to give up any details that could aid any future investigations.
We are finally getting a sense, though, Becky, that the Kenyan government is exerting some sort of control across not just the situation here, but the broader situation, those 10 men arrested, those -- I shouldn't say, we don't know that they're men, but those 10 suspects who are now in custody, all of them were arrested fleeing from Nairobi Airport. So they do seem to be getting a little more of a handle, Becky.
ANDERSON: Nima Elbagir is outside the mall there at the scene of what is an ongoing siege as Kenya's foreign minister Amina Mohamed worked closely with the neighboring government in Somalia in the fight against al Shabaab. She's in New York for the United Nations general assembly. She joins me now by phone to talk about what has been this dramatic and dangerous situation.
We've just heard from our reporter on the ground, and thank you for joining us this evening, condolences to all Kenyans from all of us this evening.
Can you give me any more details about what is going on inside that mall at present?
AMINA MOHAMED, KENYAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, actually, Becky, firstly say I'm not here to attend the UN general assembly, I'm here for a side meeting. And I'll be leaving to go back to Nairobi today. I will not be attending the general assembly this year.
So apart from that, I think that you have heard from your reporters on the ground they (inaudible) is unfolding as we speak. We hope that before long we will be able to have finished a little saga and we have been able to deliver (inaudible) that affects all of us. (inaudible) in the fight against terrorism. This is not the first time it has been in our country. It just continues to strengthen our resolve. We will go after them. We will make sure we bring them to justice.
As you've heard, some of them have been apprehended trying to flee the country. And we will be watching very closely to make sure that we get all of them. And we'll make sure that they all face justice.
We are tired of them launching attacks in our country. We have been fighting them everywhere, including in Somalia. We went in to Somalia to protect our security and economic interests when they kept coming into our country. And we aren't going to stop doing that. And we are not moving out of Somalia. We'll continue to fight them in Somalia as well.
Tell me what do you know, what have you been told about who these men and women perhaps who have been arrested in Nairobi today are. I mean, where are these people from? And do we know anything more about the nationality, or the identity of those who are still inside the mall at this point?
MOHAMED: Well, Becky, it's the same war we're fighting. 9/11, which is al Qaeda. This bears the hallmarks of al Qaeda. This is not just al Shabaab. In fact, the leaders -- the leaders are not Somali, as you may have heard.
So it's al Qaeda. It was very well coordinated, very well planned. As you can see, it's being carried out with a lot of sophistication.
As far as we know, they have a lot of types of all the other affiliates of al Qaeda -- al Qaeda in the Maghreb, al Qaeda in Yemen, Boko Haram in Nigeria, those who are in Mali, those that are in Niger.
So they're very, very well coordinated. And they have hard training from all these other groups. They have shared intelligence. They have shared information. They have shared assets and resources.
We just need to also (inaudible) so that we are ahead of them. We need to be better coordinated. We need to do much more amongst ourselves as governments to ensure that, you know, each one of us has the same information going forward so that we can apprehend them before they commit this evil, before they kill our people.
ANDERSON: Can I just clarify something with you, it isn't clear where these attackers are from. There was some talk and speculation this morning that they may be either U.S. or British -- they may be U.S. or British citizens amongst them. Can you clarify identities and citizenship at this point at all?
MOHAMED: Yeah, Becky, frankly it doesn't even matter where they come from, but they come from everywhere. It doesn't even matter if it's local, it's terrorism anyway. It is the worst face of terrorism that you can find anywhere. But it is a mixed bag.
Today, it doesn't matter where they come from. There are some Americans, there are some Brits, there are some others, right? But as far as we are concerned, really, it has nothing to do with the nationality of these people, it just has to do with the fact that they're all evil. And we must deal with them as such.
ANDERSON: Western interests have been targets in the past, and there have been warnings of an attack from al Shabaab of course. We're well aware of that on Kenya. Was there any intelligence ahead of Saturday that an attack was imminent?
MOHAMED: Well, you know, the only information that was out there -- and I think that information was everybody -- was that there was an attack that was imminent and it was an attack that was going to be aimed at a western interest, OK.
So I mean, obviously, I mean, you know, in Kenya we're so, you know, so cosmopolitan and we're so international that all of our interests are somehow leads to everybody else. So -- and we don't apologize for that.
So, basically the information that was out there was that there was an attack on western interests, you know. But it doesn't matter, the people who have died, I mean, again, they come from all over. I mean, we have Canadians dead. We have British dead. We have Americans dead. We have Canadians dead. We have Kenyans dead, you know. And I think that leads to continue to grow and to (inaudible).
We're all in this together. We have to be better coordinated. It's a global war. And we have to have proper coordination at that level.
ANDERSON: How does this attack affect future Kenyan involvement, if at all, in Somalia?
MOHAMED: Again, strengthen resolve, strengthen resolve. We must deal with this menace. You know, we aren't going to turn around and run away. We have never done that before. We are very resilient nation, right. We've been attacked before. We've taken shots for others before.
You remember the American embassy in Nairobi. You remember what happened in (inaudible). You remember what happened in Tampalu (ph). So that region has been hit before. And we have never cut and run. We followed them. We have apprehended them. We have jailed some. We have, you know...
So basically, you know, there's no way that one can in any way weaken our resolve. I think we need to continue. We need to finish this.
ANDERSON: You make a very good point.
We are continually told by experts that al Shabaab was actually posing less of a threat these days. It does, though, still carry out fairly frequent suicide attacks in Mogadishu and witness these guerrilla tactics used at Westgate -- at Westgate mall.
Are you satisfied that intelligence and security is strong enough in Nairobi, in the rest of Kenya today? What's your message to viewers tonight?
MOHAMED: I think Kenya has done very well. I think we have done wonderfully well.
We've been able to bring this under control. We've been able to take the majority of the people, you know. So we've done very, very well.
We need to do more at the international level. We definitely need to do more at the regional level as well. I think at the local level, we have done very well and we've had a lot of messages of encouragement, support, or condolences as well. We are extremely grateful for all that.
But also we've had messages of appreciation, that we have done well.
As you know, we've used mainly our own assets to do this. And going forward we will be talking to our partners and our friends...
ANDERSON: Can I just ask you one other question this evening, what was the Israeli security's involvement in ending this siege? You've suggested this was pretty much a Kenyan effort, and sadly it is still ongoing. What was the nature of Israel's security...
MOHAMED: You know, I don't have the details, Becky. And you know you'd appreciate that really we cannot discuss those details, you know.
But also I think it's important to say that every time we've had a tragedy, the Israelis have been extremely supportive, extremely supportive. In the (inaudible) 1998, they were there after that, you know, in other -- we had other attacks that probably small in magnitude. But you know they are there.
So, at this time, too, (inaudible) their support and they are there on the ground. And we (inaudible) support we've received from all the others -- (inaudible) all of them support. So we're extremely grateful to them also.
ANDERSON: Kenyan foreign minister speaking to me Amina Mohamed, thank you so much for giving us your time this evening there in New York.
The siege, of course, still ongoing.
All right, still to come tonight, who are they? Well, we're going to tell you more about the group that has claimed responsibility for this mall attack.
Also a stunning reversal of fortune for Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. First they were forced from power, now they're being forced underground.
And landmark meeting about Iran's nuclear program may be on the cards. Still with us for the details on that.
This is Connect the World. 14 minutes past 8:00 out of London. I'm Becky Anderson. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. This is Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Just a little over a year after their presidential candidate won Egypt's first democratic elections, the Muslim Brotherhood has now essentially been forced underground. A court in Cairo has banned the group from operating and ordered its assets frozen.
The move intensifies what is a crackdown against the Brotherhood that began after President Mohamed Morsy was overthrown back in July.
What a 180 in Egypt.
Let's go live to Ian Lee in Cairo. And Ian, what's the latest on this, on the Brotherhood being forced effectively underground at this point?
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, right now the Brotherhood is going to appeal this ruling. And during this appeal, they're able to operate normally until the next court verdict comes out. And the Brotherhood has come out strongly against them, condemning it, calling it illegal, saying that it is a political conspiracy, politically motivated against the Muslim Brotherhood and that this won't stop them from going out into the streets and this won't silence them even though this does dissolve the organization and their assets can be effectively all seized.
It really is another big blow for the Brotherhood.
ANDERSON: Ian Lee is in Cairo for you this evening.
Iran will hold nuclear talks with what is known as the P5+1 on Thursday. Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif has agreed to meet with his counterparts from the United States, Britain, China, France, Germany and Russia during his visit to the United Nations.
For more on these developments I'm joined from New York by World Affairs reporter Elise Labott. And there seems to be an awful lot of optimism about what may -- what may happen this week at the UN general assembly. What's the prospect that we're going to see the big guys sit down and talk, that being Obama, of course, and the new president of Iran?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, certainly but everybody is gushing about this new kind of tone between Iran and the international community, specifically the United States.
The White House, the State Department are keeping mum about whether there would be a meeting between President Obama and President Rouhani, but they're not ruling it out, they're kind of keeping us tuned and on our seats in suspense.
But I do think that there is this new tone. Clearly President Rouhani has the backing of the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei in terms of repairing relations with the West, and in fact repairing the relations with the United States.
So I don't think you're going to see some big sitdown between President Obama and President Rouhani. I think more likely you might see some kind of handshake or exchange of pleasantries in the hall, but even that we're not sure yet.
ANDERSON: Now, it's interesting, we've heard from Rouhani. We know that the Iranians are certainly eager to talk and perhaps possibly eager to concede on their nuclear power program. What we don't know is what the American's narrative is at this point. Is it clear?
LABOTT: It's not. They say that they'll be waiting for actions from the Iranians, not words. And certainly the Iranians are saying all the right things in terms of repairing their relations with the international community.
President Rouhani had a big op-ed in the Washington Post last week. And the foreign minister is saying all the right things. The U.S. is saying they're ready for action, but it is very unclear what the United States, what the international community is prepared to deal with on Iran on their nuclear program. Either President Rouhani has said Iran is not going to give up its right to enrichment. Will the United States, will these other countries in the P5+1 give them a little face-saving research and development program or something like that, that's going to be -- both sides are really going to have to give a little bit to really improve that relations.
ANDERSON: Yeah, and it's going to be an absolutely fascinating week.
Elise, for the time being, thank you for that.
BlackBerry has announced plans on Monday to become a private company. BlackBerry's largest shareholder, Fairface Financial hopes to acquire the troubled company outright. Now that deal is worth just $4.7 billion. I know it sounds like a lot, but that's only $9 a share. And the deal comes just three days after BlackBerry said it would lay off 4,500 staff members by the end of the year.
Well, live from London, this is Connect the World.
Coming up, a survivor's heartbreak account of what happened at Westgate Mall in Nairobi on Saturday.
And up next, she won the German vote convincingly, but for Angela Merkel, the hard work has just begun. We're going to analyze the political landscape of what is post-election Germany. That, after this.
ANDERSON: You're watching Connect the World live from London. Welcome back. 23 minutes past 8:00 here.
Now the victims in the Kenya attack come from around the world, but most of them are Kenyans. I spoke to Nairobi radio present Kamal Kaur a short time ago. Her son narrowly escaped a bullet, her pregnant colleague (inaudible) lost her life.
I began by asking her about the kids that she tried to help on Saturday.
KAMAL KAUR, EYEWITNESS: I had about 30, 35 kinds with me, including two of my own. And I was trying to protect them. I was telling them get down, get down. And this little boy was next to my son and you see what happened was first the grenade went off. So everybody was like this. And because the sound was loud and children I believe that never heard something that loud will start screaming. And at the same time, the shots started coming in. And I just watched -- because we were right near the wall, I saw something whiz by my sons head, just like that. And it bounced from the wall and hit the little boy over here who was standing next to him.
The boy was facing the wall, my son was facing the other point. My daughter pulled him down. And they both fell to the ground. I was screaming all other kids, "lie down. Lie doe. Lie down right now. Lie down." And the poor boy. I tried to you know put my hand there to stop bleeding.
I don't know what I was doing, I don't know what I was doing, but I couldn't save him. I couldn't save him.
ANDERSON: Kamal, this was awful.
You tweeted, "I had a young lady who had fallen on me and she was calling her dad to say good-bye, and I love you. It broke my heart that she had given up." Can you describe what happened?
KAUR: She was lying on top of me on her side. My son was here, my daughter was on this side. Everybody was hurt. She was pretty OK, but she started getting hysterical. And when the guy went back in and we could hear gunshots inside the mall now, she pulled out her phone and she started -- she called her dad, dad I love you. I'm sorry for everything I've done wrong. And she was just apologizing to him, asking (inaudible). Don't give up. We're going to get out of this. We are going to get out of this. There's no way that anybody is going to leave us here to die. Don't do this.
But she had just kind of like given up.
ANDERSON: I know that one of your very good friends and colleagues lost her life in the mall. Can you talk to us for a moment about Rela (ph)?
KAUR: Rela (ph) was six months pregnant and she was very excited. First time mom. And just before the cooking event started at -- that we were hosting, she was telling me I bought something for my little Baba (ph). And I was telling her stop buying too many things, because we'll have nothing left to give you as a gift. Those are the last things I ever said to her.
I don't know where -- which way she must have run. I have no idea what happened. I don't know if she was shot or if the grenade blow up in front of her, because they blew up -- they threw quite a few grenades at us, because I have other colleagues -- Sema's (ph) head has got shrapnel in it, Alim's (ph) eye is all bandaged up, his glasses broken, parts of the shrapnel got embedded in his eyes. And Jasmine's (ph) broken her leg.
There's just, we are just hurting, all of us. But it's unfortunately we lost our Rela (ph).
ANDERSON: How did you get out?
KAUR: Eventually, a gentleman came running towards us. He had a smaller gun with him. And he -- we got really scared -- he came towards our corner. And he spoke to somebody who was hidden near the car. And I saw him gesture, get out, get out, get out.
So, you know, at that point when you see somebody saying that to you, you trust that person blindly because he looked like he was there to help us.
So we went running towards the coffee house, Java coffee house. And they've got a little wall where their outdoor coffee areas is, so, you know, from my daughter couldn't walk at this point, because her legs were pretty damaged. So I just saw a kind Samaritan carrying my daughter away. And from afar I could see my son, you know, helping a little girl along. My son is 8. And he was holding a little girl's hand. And he was pulling her along and telling her let's go, let's go.
And from afar, I thought, OK, I'm looking after the people's children. I'm sure there will be somebody somewhere who look after my children as well.
So I just -- I let it be. I had to help those other kids jump over the wall.
After the last person had gone down, I was told, OK, go now, go. I reached the stairwell and there were, there were policemen there escorting people out. They had guns. We were telling them, let's go, let's go.
There were lots of ambulances and a lot of volunteers and security personnel who just took over after that.
ANDERSON: It's traumatic enough listening to that, can you imagine having been at that mall on Saturday? It's remarkable. Absolutely remarkable. A nightmare scenario.
The latest world news headlines are just ahead. Plus, why did the Somalian terror group al Shabaab stage what is a deadly siege in Kenya? It is ongoing. We are going to try and find some answers for you next.
ANDERSON: At just after half past 8:00 in London, welcome back, this is CONNECT THE WORLD on CNN. The headlines for you.
The Nairobi mall siege remains unresolved this hour. A short time ago, Kenyan foreign minister Amina Mohamed told us the attack, which has killed at least 62 people, has strengthened the country's resolve to fight terrorism across its borders.
Yet another blow for Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. A court has now banned the group's activities and ordered its assets frozen. The Brotherhood calls the ruling "corrupt and politically motivated," accusing the military-led government of trying to silence dissent.
Iran will, apparently, take part in nuclear talks on Thursday. According to the EU's policy chief, Iran's foreign minister has agreed to meet with a group known as the P5+1 during his visit to the United Nations. The group includes the US, Britain, China, France, Germany, and Russia.
And BlackBerry announced plans Monday to become a private company. Its largest shareholder, Fairfax Financial, hopes to acquire the troubled company in a deal worth $4.7 billion. That comes three days after BlackBerry said it would lay off 4,500 staff.
And Chancellor Angela Merkel is searching for a new coalition partner. Her previous coalition partner, the Free Democrats, failed to win any seats in Sunday's election. Germany's opposition party, the Social Democrats, say they are open to talks about forming a government, but it would involve some hard bargaining.
Frederik Pleitgen joins us now, live from CNN in Berlin. The horse trading begins. Angela Merkel is not frightened of a fight. What should we expect in the hours and days to come?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, she's certainly not frightened of a fight, and one of the things that she has now, which she didn't have in the same way before, she's really got a popular mandate.
As we said, she had a landslide victory here yesterday, increasing the amount of votes of the Christian Democrats by some 8.4 percent compared to the last elections here in Germany in 2009.
So, right now, as you said, her main partner that she is trying to get is the Social Democrats. The Social Democrats have already said that they are open to talks. However, they are not going to give in that easily.
Angela Merkel, for her part, said -- which is very interesting, especially internationally -- is that one of the things that's not going to be up for debate is her European policies. Let's listen in to what she said at a press conference here in Berlin today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): We made very clear today that nothing will change in our Europe policy. We carried out this election campaign according to our convictions, and we will continue this way.
This is, perhaps, the most important message to people. The Europe policy is part of our core values and will always be, and it will be continued in the same spirit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: Now, of course, the two coalitions that are up for debate here, Becky, are a coalition with the Green Party, but both sides have said they don't really think that that's going to happen.
And so, it looks as though Germany is going to have a grand coalition once again, which of course means political stability, but will also make it a little bit more difficult for Angela Merkel to push a lot of things through, Becky.
ANDERSON: Fred Pleitgen in Berlin for you. Third term for Angela Merkel.
Let's bring you more, now, on our top story this our, the mall siege in Kenya. Kenyan forces say they now have control of all floors of the Westgate Mall, but our correspondent says 69 people are still missing. This video was from earlier today when some shots were fired. At least 62 people now confirmed dead, more than 200 others have been rescued.
Well, the Westgate shopping complex is a central part of the community living around it in Nairobi. For years, it's where people have come for a peaceful coffee with friends or religious cultural events. CNN's Zain Verjee grew up there, and she says she simply can't believe what is happening right now.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm in an area of town where I grew up. I grew up with my grandma, my grandpa, my parents don't live too far from here. It's called Parklands, and it straddles another suburb of Nairobi called Westlands.
This right here is called Ring Road Westlands, and it is actually what divides us between the terrorists and where we stand today in safety. I could never believe that this would be a situation that would occur not only in my hometown, but in my neighborhood.
And like me, there are so many people here in Nairobi, friends and family, that are shocked, utterly devastated, that this situation has happened.
I used to get the school bus from a little bit further up there, a mall called Sarit Centre. Sarit Centre was a really big deal when I was growing up, because it was Nairobi's first mall ever. Wow. So, that was sort of the hot place to be.
There are so many cafes, restaurants, this is a relatively middle- class area. Parklands is mostly Indian. Westlands area is mostly a mixed ethnic group area. But it's relatively middle class. Some parts are fairly affluent.
And Westgate Mall, that really has become woven into the fabric of this community, and all of Nairobi, this is where we have coffee, this is where I meet my friends, this is where I socialize, this is where diplomats, expats, everybody goes to shop. Every Saturday morning, we go to buy groceries at Nakumatt, like hundreds of people did Saturday morning.
So, this area has a lot of meaning for me, and my mum used to race my brother and I going to school down this road, actually, and we just -- had so many good memories. We don't have memories of smoke rising and gunshots, really, a war zone in a place where people really come for religious and cultural events here, part of the community, and to walk on a track for their health.
That's what Oshwal is known for. People say, "Let's go and walk at Oshwal," and it's not famous for paramilitary forces and ambulances. But it is today, and it's really devastating to see, but wonderful, also, to see how the community in Nairobi, all parts of it, has pulled together and are being so supportive and effective.
Zain Verjee, CNN, Nairobi.
ANDERSON: Well, al-Shabaab, an al Qaeda-linked militant group based in Somalia, has claimed responsibility for this weekend's deadly attack on that mall in Nairobi. Here's an outline of their movements in the past few years for you.
In June of 2006, the Islamic court's union and al-Shabaab took over the Somali capital of Mogadishu in heavy fighting with US-backed warlords. After years of continuing violence, May of 2009 marked the beginning of what is -- or was a major offensive by the insurgents to overthrow the president.
In July of 2010, al-Shabaab claimed responsibility for bombings in Kampala in Uganda that killed 76 people, expanding the fight beyond Somali borders. A year later, the group was forced out of Mogadishu, but still remained strong.
In 2012, Kenyan authorities thwarted a major plot to attack Nairobi, and Saturday, al-Shabaab successfully carried out an attack on a Nairobi, Kenya mall, as you will be well aware. At least 62 people have lost their lives.
Let's get more on that crucial aspect of al-Shabaab's operations, its recruitment of overseas nationals. Nic Robertson is here with more. Nic, lots of speculation about who these men and possibly women are. Do we have any more details at this point?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't. A Twitter feed that may or may not be actually al-Shabaab has been tweeting various names, ages, nationalities, indicating some may be from the United States, some may be from -- or one may be from Britain, Canada, et cetera.
This cannot really be taken at face value at this time. We're not really going to know until the dust settles, until we get in and the Kenyan authorities have finished their operation there, and either these people are captured or they're killed.
But what we are getting to know, looking more closely at al-Shabaab, is an idea of how this role of international recruitment that they have had, and how that may be changing.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Hidden from view. Smoke billowing from the top of the mall. Al-Shabaab has murdered its way into international notoriety.
RAFAELLO PANTUCCI, TERROR EXPERT, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE: This was clearly a target that they chose because it was a big, international mall. They knew that there would be some foreigners there, as well as prominent Kenyans.
ROBERTSON: For years, al-Shabaab has had a reputation for recruiting from overseas. As many as 100 from the UK, more than 40 from the United States. The fear, they'll spur attacks back home.
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: You could have al-Shabaab supporters in this country recruited and mobilized to carry out attacks in the country.
ROBERTSON: The Westgate Mall attack throws those concerns into sharper focus.
PANTUCCI: This particular attack does seem to have snuck under the radar, and I think it does demonstrate that the organization has the sort of capacity and the intent that maybe people had started to underplay.
ROBERTSON: Underplay because in the past few years, al-Shabaab has lost ground in Somalia, seen its Kenyan franchise Muslim Youth Center, or MYC, weakened by Kenyan security forces. And perhaps most critically, been riven by internal conflict: follow al Qaeda's global jihad or their old rallying call, a nationalist struggle in part against neighboring Ethiopia.
PANTUCCI: It was able to sort of tap historical enmities between Somalia and Ethiopia to appeal to its broader diaspora. Appealing to people that this narrative of them being a sort of internationalist organization that was struggling to help unify the country and turn it into a large Islamic emirate.
ROBERTSON: But it is the al Qaeda-allied hard-liners who've been winning out, killing several senior, more moderate opponents, including this man, American Omar Shafik Hammami from Alabama.
ROBERTSON: This is what's interesting here. You've got this infighting going on, that foreign fighters are being killed, leading foreign fighters, like Hammami, are being killed.
And what the experts are saying, potentially, over time, this may sort of diminish that international recruitment for al-Shabaab, and therefore lessen the threat to Britain, the United States, Europe. This is something that we're not really going to know, though, until we get into the mall and see what's happened.
ANDERSON: Of course. And let's remind our viewers that this siege is still ongoing. The Kenyan authorities have said that they are in control, but it seems to be proving incredibly difficult to cure this site. We also know there are some 69 people still missing, so potentially hostages still inside.
The foreign minister, Kenya's foreign minister, who is at or in New York this week for the UNGA, but she says she's coming back. We spoke to her just half an hour ago. She said the leaders of this group, so far as she is concerned or knows, are not Somali.
She says it's not clear where these attackers are from, although when I put it to here, can you clarify whether there's any Brits or US citizens in amongst them, she said she thought there were. But she said this was bigger than al-Shabaab.
ROBERTSON: And certainly, we can take that at face value, because al- Shabaab in Kenya, for example, has this ally, you can think of it as a franchise, the Muslim Youth Center. Maybe goes by another name now, but this is what they're generally known by.
This has been a great recruiting site of al-Shabaab, recruiting young Kenyans to go and fight in Somalia. They've recruited -- al-Shabaab's also recruited from other areas in East Africa. So, their narrative of come join the fight in Somalia, help us establish an independent nation, is one that's resonated.
So, from what the foreign minister is saying, this plays into that. How much bigger does it go? There's going to be in the final analysis, probably a larger contingent that most expect coming from Kenya.
ANDERSON: Amazing stuff. The siege continues. We are told that these terrorists will not negotiate. It's not clear whether the Kenyan authorities are actually in contact with those inside. But as I say, this siege, ongoing as we speak.
They say they have control of the mall, now, on all floors, but that the attackers are still there. As we get more on CNN, of course, we will bring it to you. Nic, thank you very much, indeed.
The story has unfolded in a huge way on social media, it's got to be said. Since the crisis began on Saturday, citizens made it their job to organize relief.
They're using hash tags, one like #UhuruPark, the site of a massive blood drive, #KOT or Kenyans on Twitter, used the send updated information, #WeAreOne, a stream of messages of support.
They're giving blood. Here's some videos of the outpouring of support. There's been a huge need for blood, and hundreds have turned up to provide vital medical help, and they are banding together. So far, fundraising has been extraordinary. A website set up to help victims pay for medical treatment has raised more than $500,000 or half a million dollars so far.
Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Coming up, television's most glamorous occasion didn't cease to disappoint, and we'll give you the latest scoop on last night's festivities.
Plus, your pet may hold the key to unlocking your iPhone. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: It's the ultimate underwater predator, the Great White Shark. But for all the fear and awe this magnificent creature inspires, scientists still know relatively little about it. Now, though, modern tracking technology is starting to change that.
As part of our series the Art of Movement, Nick Glass joined an expedition of American scientists hoping to unravel the mystery of these iconic animals. Have a look at this.
NICK GLASS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's all very pretty and very white in Chatham, Massachusetts on Cape Cod. The houses, the picket fences. And, as it happens, the sharks.
We joined Ocearch, a team of American scientists and fisherman, on an expedition to tag Great White Sharks.
GREG SKOMAL, CHIEF SCIENTIST, OCEARCH: When it comes to the Atlantic Ocean, we don't know the simplest answers to the simplest of questions.
BRENDA ANDERSON, SCIENTIST, OCEARCH: We don't know their mating activities, we don't know their pupping activities, or where those activities occur.
NICK WHITNEY, SCIENTIST, OCEARCH: We don't know, for instance, how far they dive, how deep they go in the Atlantic. We don't know how fast they swim through the water.
CHRIS FISCHER, FOUNDER, OCEARCH: We don't know where they are in between, so we can look after them or put a plan together for the future.
GLASS: Scientists have been tagging Great Whites all over the world since the 1960s, on the coasts of Australia, South Africa, California, Guadalupe, Florida, and now, Cape Cod. As many as 500 Great Whites have been tagged, and we are gradually building up a global map of shark movements.
SKOMAL: Right to the abdominal area. How's the tide?
GLASS: Chief scientist, Greg Skomal, has been tagging Great Whites using a harpoon method for years. He thought he'd crack the code.
SKOMAL: Most of the sharks went down to Florida and Georgia, the southeastern United States, simple migratory pattern, except one shark did not. One shark did something very, very different.
It moved off the continental shelf, away from the East Coast of the United States, down to -- toward Bermuda. And then kept going past Bermuda and went to the part of the Atlantic we call the Sargasso Sea.
Her name was Curly. Maybe big, mature females do something very different, and maybe they do that because they're pregnant. And so, that kind of opened a can of worms for me. I had to go about tagging additional fish.
GLASS: Chris Fischer began Ocearch in 2007 and names every shark he tags. So far, they've tagged 66 Great Whites. They all seem to have their own personality, their own stories. And they behave differently depending on the gender and the particular ocean.
FISCHER: The male sharks are all living on the beach all the time. They have very little offshore life. They're up and down the coast, all the way from Mozambique to Cape Town.
While the female White Sharks, they can travel 1,000 miles a month, month after month after month. And they have this small coastal portion of their life, when they come together with the males.
But when they leave, they go offshore. They wander way out over to Madagascar and even to the east of Madagascar, out into the middle of the Indian Ocean. And they hang around out there for months and months and months. What are they doing out there? Are they out there gestating their babies?
GLASS: As any fisherman knows, you have to be patient. On the horizon, a small, high-powered Ocearch fishing boat, The Contender. The Great White was to be caught; they'd catch it and bring it to us.
After 14 days out at sea, they'd only caught one shark. Six sun- beaten hours without any word of a bite. We were resigned to just learning from the experts.
SKOMAL: But when you have that animal in front of you alive, kind of -- it coming to your world, you just get a whole new perspective of how big this creature is.
(MUMBLING IN BACKGROUND)
SKOMAL: What's that?
(MUMBLING IN BACKGROUND)
SKOMAL: We're hooked up. We're hooked up.
GLASS (on camera): We're hooked up!
SKOMAL: That's critically important.
GLASS (voice-over): The crew were ready, and I was about to come face-to-face with a Great White Shark.
ANDERSON: Remarkable stuff. Coming up after this short break here on CONNECT THE WORLD, a night filled with surprises and sadness at the 65th annual Emmy Awards. We will recap that night for you up next. Do stay with us.
ANDERSON: Well, Hollywood's finest celebrated the best shows in television at the Emmy Awards on Sunday. Nischelle Turner has the highlights from a night of laughter, upsets and what were emotional tributes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Work it!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIFED FEMALE: Work that towards --
NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A playful combination of front row banter and unsolicited advice --
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": Enjoy every second of this, because, there's a good chance they won't ask you back next year.
TURNER: -- helped Neil Patrick Harris kick off the 65th Primetime Emmy Awards.
CHORUS (singing): The Emmy Awards --
TURNER: A night of song, dance, and celebration left some Emmy winners, like "The Newsroom's" Jeff Daniels --
JEFF DANIELS, "THE NEWSROOM": I usually don't win anything --
TURNER: -- and "Nurse Jackie's" Merritt Wever --
MERRITT WEVER, "NURSE JACKIE" (whispering): I've got to go. Bye.
TURNER: -- noticeably surprised. While "Veep" winners Tony Hale and Julia Louis-Dreyfus had fun in character.
JULIA LOUIS-DREYFUS, "VEEP": I'd like to thank our -- my family.
TURNER: "Homeland's" repeat winner Claire Danes and three-time "Big Bang Theory" winner Jim Parsons were visibly moved.
JIM PARSONS, "BIG BANG THEORY": It's so silly to be emotional, isn't it?
EDIE FALCO, "THE SOPRANOS": And it's Jim, the man, the very dear man, that I will miss most of all.
TURNER: The show's three-hour run singled out five heartfelt memorials, including "Sopranos" star James Gandolfini.
JANE LYNCH, "GLEE": Tonight, we remember Cory for all he was.
TURNER: Cory Monteith, who drew some controversy in the days before the show due to his smaller body of work, and Gary David Goldberg, who produced both "Family Ties" and "Spin City."
MICHAEL J. FOX, ACTOR: I wish Gary was still with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Modern Family."
TURNER: "Modern Family" won its fourth straight Emmy as best comedy series, while "Breaking Bad" won its first for top drama.
MICHAEL DOUGLAS, ACTOR: I think it really helped me come through after my whole cancer bout.
TURNER: Michael Douglas's starring role as Liberace may have earned him Emmy gold over costar Matt Damon.
DOUGLAS: You want the bottom or the top?
TURNER: But in the end, the HBO bio pic was second to none, winning 11 statues in all.
NEIL PATRICK HARRIS, HOST, THE 65TH ANNUAL EMMY AWARDS (singing): Luck be a lady tonight.
TURNER: Nischelle Turner, CNN, Hollywood.
ANDERSON: In tonight's Parting Shots just before we go, Apple's new iPhones are going down well with a record 9 million models sold this weekend. Yes, folks, 9 million. But any celebrations at Apple may be short-lived after hackers bypassed a new security feature in the new iPhone. Passwords are out and a thumbprint is in.
Our tech guy Samuel Burke found out animal paw prints do rather well, too, on the new iPhone. Have a look at this.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, there aren't many lines now. Earlier in the day, there was a bit more of a queue, but you can see, it's pretty empty now. But I'm going to go in and try and get the gold iPhone, and then we'll try and see if a dog can get into the iPhone with the new fingerprint technology.
What's the dog's name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lily.
BURKE: Lily. So, you're not going to register Lily in your iPhone?
UNIDENTIFIFED MALE: I'm not going to register Lily.
BURKE: Doesn't need access to your iPhone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she's got my laptop.
BURKE: So, I'm coming out of the Apple Store empty-handed. They're out of the iPhone 5S, which has the fingerprint technology. They still have a few of the iPhone 5C, but that doesn't have the fingerprint technology. And also, the Apple Store guy told me don't buy that one if you already have the Apple phone 5, because it's just like that phone except with a color backing.
So, I've got to find somebody with the iPhone 5S and find a dog or a cat and see if they can get into the iPhone.
BURKE (voice-over): It turns out, if you weren't first in line in London Friday morning, you can't get your hands -- or your paws -- on an iPhone 5S, but the folks over at TechCrunch.com found one critter with the new mobile, and it's true -- you don't have to be a human to claw your way into the iPhone with its new fingerprint technology.
ANDERSON: Well, not any pooch will be able to access your iPhone, let me tell you. Pet paws need to be registered first, I am told.
I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thank you for watching. From the team here and in Atlanta, it's a very good evening. CNN, of course, continues.