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Hell on Wheels?
Aired October 3, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, what everyone is talking about -- road rage caught on tape. Two dozen motorcycles versus one vehicle. One man paralyzed, another badly beaten. We`ve got new video.
Where is all this anger coming from? My behavior bureau has answers.
Plus, a husband is accused of strangling his wife, a co-worker calls him a creep. She`s here to tell us that he was a scary guy.
And Amanda Bynes, hear from the actress`s mother about how far she`s come. Is a career comeback next?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM host Jenny Hutt.
Coming up --
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Hello.
PINSKY: -- swingers and searches for, Jenny, how to cheat on your wife? I know your husband spends time online, that`s what he`s looking for. That`s -- I`m just kiting. That`s what the state says they found on the accused murderer David Pietz`s computer.
But, first, violence erupts when motorcycles swarms a man driving an SUV with his wife and 2 years old baby inside. He then guns it over one of the bikers. Who started this? Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The driver of the SUV was with his wife and 2- year-old child. He was eaten. But several bikers were also injured in the incident.
LYNN BERRY, HLN: I saw these guys as I was running on the west side highway and I can attest to the fact that they were popping their wheels. They were all over the place. It was mayhem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Biker Christopher Cruz was in court Wednesday, facing reckless driving charges. You can see him in this video slowing down right in front of the SUV. Cruz` attorney says he did nothing wrong.
CHRISTOPHER CRUZ`S ATTORNEY: His motorcycle was struck and he stood right there. Some are calling for Lien to face charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There could have been other things that could have happened, could have done instead of running somebody over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was going on that made him bolt off like that? You don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was afraid. I can say he was afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a family, not a gang.
PINSKY: Joining us: attorney at speaktomark.com, Mark Eiglarsh; attorney and social commentator, Georgianna Kelman; former criminal court judge and host of "Justice with a Snap", Judge David Young, and HLN`s own Lynn Berry.
Lynn, we heard you saying in this tape that you saw this pack of bikers. You were jogging or something? Before you tell us about what you witnessed, break down the brawl for us if you would.
BERRY: OK. So, here`s the deal. You see that biker right there. So, he starts to slow down. Ands that right there is when the Range Rover tapped the biker. So the Range Rover stops, and he is swarmed by dozens and dozens of these bikers.
And I`ll get to why I think these guys are punks in a second, but they start slashes his tires pounding on his windows.
And, Dr. Drew, you`re a parent. Put yourself in the state of mind. He`s got a 2-year-old daughter, his wife in the driver`s seat, and he`s got a bunch of guys slashing his tires, pounding on his -- you`re in New York City, what do you do? Do you take off to protect your family?
PINSKY: Well, that is the question. I guess I`ll start with Mark and ask you this. Is fear a sufficient defense to justify rolling over bikers?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Well, yes, if you reasonably feared death or bodily harm. I don`t want to go all lawyer on you here, but it comes down to something basic. If you really feel like your life, your wife, your child`s life is in danger, you haul butt. You get out of there.
That`s something that I clearly believe that he did that, and something I would do if I`m in that situation.
PINSKY: Georgianna, I`m going to ask you the same question. Do you think that was appropriate? I`m sort of -- I hope I wouldn`t do that, even if I were scared.
GEORGIANNA KELMAN, ATTORNEY: I`m a parent. I have three children. I`m in a car with nigh three kids, this happens to me. Hello, lead foot. I am getting the hell out of dodge. There`s no question that what this father did was 100 percent the correct thing.
Find me one person that said they would do something different. Everyone that`s a parent understands your protective instinct kicks in. All you`re going to do is protect your child. And yes, you`re going to hit that gas and you`re going to take off.
And whatever is in front of you, it was horrific, but that was the circumstances you were placed in and you had to go into protective mode automatically, no question.
PINSKY: Judge Young, I understand -- Jenny, you say yes?
HUTT: I just want to say, Dr. Drew, isn`t there the whole concept of fight or flight? You assess a situation in the very moment. And so, looking at all those bikers, how could he have thought he could fight? And did you see in that tape how that one biker looks back when he --
PINSKY: Here`s my problem. Listen, I`m sympathetic to everything everybody is saying here. I`m really sympathetic.
And, Lynn, you`re going to tell me why you think they`re punks in a second, but I`m going to go to the judge and ask this -- I believe that in extreme moments is where we really are mettle is tested, you know, when our real selves emerge. I want to believe I would have kept a cooler head at not run over somebody even though I was afraid.
You know, there`s sort of a fine line here, Judge, is there not?
JUDGE DAVID YOUNG, FORMER CRIMINAL COURT JUDGE: Well, it`s a fine line until they started wreaking havoc on this automobile, that his wife and 2-year-old child -- I`m sorry. As far as I`m concerned, I as a judge, would grant, if he gets charged, I find him not guilty because he was protecting a 2-year-old. Dr. Drew, a 2-year-old child.
Three people against a whole swarm of bikers? Please. That doesn`t even make sense. The father did what he had to do, survival of the fittest. And his kid was the most important person, and his wife is the most important person.
You know, good luck to them. These idiots asked for it, and that`s what happened.
PINSKY: Lynn, why the thug? Why are you calling them thugs?
BERRY: Well, I`m not calling them thugs. I`m saying -- this is nothing against bikers. I`m from Ohio, I like a good Harley ride, OK? I`ve seen huge motorcycle rides before.
This was different. These were people who are popping their wheels, they were making gestures like this to everyone that was taking videos. They were wearing freaky masks.
These are Hollywood stunts. They have done this before, in New York before. They want to provoke. They want to be, you know, dangerous.
And these aren`t just your normal bikers riding on the highway that you -- we sound like we`re prejudiced against them. That`s not the case. These guys were punks. I saw it with my own eyes.
PINSKY: I have video from liveleak.com. And I want to show it right now. Look at it.
Lynn, tell me what I`m looking at.
BERRY: All right. So, this is the incident I was just talking about from last year. This is a Prius that these guys swarmed. They start pounding the window and try to drag the driver out.
So, what does this tell us? This is not the first time this has happened. These are provocative people. They`re not just going around and riding their bikes. They`re trying to make a statement.
The NYPD themselves called them a motorcycle gang. We`re not calls everybody that rides motorcycles in a group part of a gang? That`s what we`re trying to do.
These guys are different. That`s the point.
PINSKY: Mark, I`m going to go to you in a second, Mark, but I`m going to go to Georgianna first and ask about why the rage? Why do you think they`re being so provocative?
KELMAN: Well, let`s break it down. They`re aggressors. We don`t know why they`re being provocative. Frankly, it doesn`t matter.
For purposes of this family and whether a prosecutor someplace is considering charging this family with anything, that would be absolutely ridiculous. Let`s look at the facts. You look at the video, there was an accident, it was an accident, a bike was hit.
He did the correct thing. The driver pulled over. It was when he pulled over that he was swarmed by these basically -- it was a mob scene for him. If you have your child in your car again -- all you`re going to do is what do I do to protect my kid?
YOUNG: That`s exactly right.
KELMAN: That is the only thought in my head. That is the thought of any reasonable person.
PINSKY: Mark, I`m going to let sudden comment, but I just want to observe something interesting. I have all three women nodding their heads vigorously, to Georgianna`s comments.
But, Mark, what did you want to say here?
EIGLARSH: OK, there`s a lethal combination when ego and anger mix together. Anger, as I`ve said on this show before, is one letter shy of danger. I`m always wondering why are people reacting? And because the anger is a manifestation of fear. They`re all fearful of something. That coupled with ego causes these problems that keeps me in business as a criminal defense lawyer.
PINSKY: All right. We`re going to get into that in great deal detail with the behavior bureau. They have answers to this issue. Where does the anger come from?
And later, we`re going to talk about Amanda Bynes, whether or not she potentially will have a comeback? Her mom reports on her progress, and we`re back with more, after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINKSY: I wonder how many people around the world look at this video here and shake their head. Road rage is out of control in certain parts of this country. I think it`s just a symptom of how unregulated we are, how angry we are, how frustrated we are. A lot of people look at it and like, well, who started it? Let`s figure out who should have been hurt here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And my point was, I`m going to discuss this with the behavior bureau, it`s like I don`t care who started it. This was regulated rage.
Jenny Hutt, my co-host, behavior bureau, talking about the motorcycle mayhem that did, in fact, end in violence. I just want to show you a tweet that just came through that I thought was kind of interesting about our last conversation.
It is from Vashti Fulker (ph). She says, "If everyone is against the bikers, why have a debate? The bikers couldn`t run over the SUV."
And, Vashati, I guess her name is, I am uncomfortable with our conversation we just had. I want to believe I would not have run over that guy.
To discuss it with the panel hold on, psychologist Judy Ho, Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, clinical and forensic psychologist Cheryl Arutt, and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."
Was somebody trying to ring in there and tell me I would have behaved like this? Who was that? Jenny?
HUTT: I was. Yes, I don`t think that you would intentional run someone over, but I think the guy was fleeing because he was afraid for his family. I totally get it. I would have done the same thing. And to your point --
PINSKY: I get it, I`m sympathetic, but, Samantha, you`re saying, I would just run over those guys if you`re so panicky?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Here`s the thing, Dr. Drew. I mean, we are not in that situation, but you can hear the fear in his wife`s voice, screaming in the 911 audio. You can hear the guys bashing on her car.
So, I`m sure that doesn`t help the situation, either. I mean, clearly, they were all in fear for their life. When you`re in that dire of circumstances, you`re going to react to protect you family. So, I get it, it`s tragic, but I understand it.
PINSKY: I understand it. Again, you guys are not -- I`m going to keep enter viewing each one of you.
One of the bikers who witnessed the whole thing appeared on CNN this morning. Take a look this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Bikers hassling that SUV, you know, those big packs.
JEROME DAVIS: Yes.
CUOMO: You guys can do that, you don`t want them in the way. You don`t like the way they`re riding. Was that going on here?
DAVIS: Not harassing them, but they wanted him to pull over. Not in the way of threatening him, and I kind of feel he was afraid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. Cheryl, you`re next victim he. Would I have been so panicky?
CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: I`m ready.
PINSKY: Am I unrealistic t think at I would have been responsive to a higher calling and not run over another person?
ARUTT: Well, Dr. Drew, here`s the beautiful thing about you -- well, one of them. You are trained as a physician, and you are trained to keep your cool in emergency situations. This is actually one of the reasons I didn`t believe MacNeill freaking out on the 911 call in the other case.
You would -- I believe you really would be able to override your fight or flight system and not panic. Not everybody is able to do that. Our fight or flight system is wired in an ancient kind of way.
PINSKY: All right. Let me keep on sort of checking everyone`s pulse on this.
Judy, what do you say?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, I agree with you. But this is also coming from my perspective. I`m a rule-abiding citizen. I don`t think I would try to run somebody over, even if I was afraid, because I would be afraid of what would happen if I did kill someone.
PINSKY: Interesting. She`s worried about the negative consequences that would occur.
Danine, you know how I always save Danine for last. She`ll blow this whole thing up.
But, Danine, you know what I`m getting at here? So it`s -- I understand it, I`m sympathetic to it, but really? And let me tag this idea for Danine -- isn`t there just rage on both sides being acted out? Isn`t that really what we`re talking about tonight?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: It is, Dr. Drew. But the thing is, is that I don`t think you would be trying to run someone over. I think you`d be trying to just get away from the situation. And if that was collateral damage, and so be it.
Now, what I tell my kids all the time is that there should have been an 11th commandment, and not 10, and 11th commandment being -- don`t start none, won`t be none. In other words, don`t write a check your butt can`t cash.
And I think this is a situation where someone was antagonistically provocative. And then once you do that and start something, you can`t then claim to be a victim unless you`re George Zimmerman. But can`t start something and then claim to be a victim, because this is the type of situation that happens. I think that`s exactly what has happened here.
I think you would have tried to get away just like the driver did. Unfortunately, somebody got hit in the process.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, you were talking about anger before -- look, I can tell you when I`m driver in traffic sometimes with my children, I have my doors locked and I get so angry with the way even are on the road, probably it`s displaced anger, I guess, because it`s an over sort of zealous anger, but I don`t cut people off in part because I`m afraid of getting killed.
PINSKY: I think Jenny and people here in New York don`t drive enough. You know you can`t show somebody yourself a middle finger without getting shot at in Los Angeles. You`re very careful about this stuff out there.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew --
MANETTE: I`m in Oakland.
SCHACHER: I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that this bike group, and a lot of them -- I`ve been on the street before where I see a similar group doing -- popping wheelies, taking over the highway. I think they feel like they`re invincible. And I saw one particular group recently actually plow right through a red light, and one them got struck and did not end well.
That`s what I`m talking about. These traffic laws are here for a reason. They`re there to protect us, they`re there to protect them. And a lot of these times, a lot of these groups they don`t abide by the traffic laws.
PINSKY: I understand it. I get it. But does anybody, I`m going to ask Judy and Cheryl this, I go to Cheryl first. Does anybody want to blame the economic distress we`re under, the fact that our leaders are fighting with each other, that there seems to be frustration, and anger in the vapors.
MANETTE: It`s a violent time.
PINSKY: That`s what I think.
ARUTT: Here`s the thing -- yes, tempers are running high. People if they had maybe a longer fuse under good circumstances, they`re likely to have a shorter fuse under these circumstances. But I think we really need to look at the impact that this didn`t end well for anybody. And you have the mob mentality with the guys on the bikes, you`ve got some guy who may have started maybe driving like a jerk, as a bully and a big heavy SUV.
But we`ve got to stop and think about the impact of these things, because people don`t make good decisions once they`re that freaked out, once they`re that afraid.
PINSKY: Judy, finish me up. Judy?
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, I can`t blame anything about the current situation on these things. You know, I think these guys who were in the motorcycle gangs, they`ve got insecurities, they`ve got their fears, there`s something that`s not being met. They all just need a hug. They need a hug and a kiss.
HUTT: Oh, God. Oh, my goodness.
SCHACHER: Is it that simple?
PINSKY: Maybe a hug in Washington will settle the shutdown crisis. I don`t know.
How long did you go to school for that, Judy?
Not only that, I learned tonight also that Lynn Berry likes to ride Harleys? Anybody surprised? But I`ll save that for later.
HUTT: No, I`ve met her.
HO: Not really. Seems right.
PINSKY: Next up, what were searches for swinger and how to cheat on your wife doing on a murder suspect`s computer?
And later, update on Amanda Bynes. You`ll hear from her mother about how she is doing now. And my thoughts after this.
PINSKY: Welcome back.
My co-host is Jenny Hutt.
A man is on trial for allegedly strangling his wife and dumping her naked body in a field. What was the motive? The prosecutors say David Pietz was in a troubled marriage, had financial problems and was a serial, serial cheater take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter is gone. Her little body was dumped fear the airport for the animals to just chew away at.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect in this incident may have started to think that he was going to get away with this one.
Martin David Pietz, age 34, for the 2006 murder of his wife, Nicole Teresa Pietz.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cell phone tracking provided enough evidence to charge Pietz with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was her husband David caught on a surveillance tape 3 minutes before midnight on a seemingly odd shopping trip.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he really suggesting that his wife took her clothes off, got naked, took a bunch of pills, strangled herself and tossed herself in the woods?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When did murder become the way you deal with a problem relationship? He said he had a low sexual libido and he wasn`t that into sex.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women came forward yesterday, saying they either made out or had sex with him when he was married.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a liar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don`t know how you live with yourself and I`d like to call him a few names, but I won`t.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Back with us, Mark, Georgianna, Judge Young and Lynn.
PINSKY: -- just the fact that he is a liar and a cheater, should we necessarily be looking at him as a murderer?
KELMAN: Absolutely not. I have two words for you. So what? He`s a liar and he`s a cheater, he`s a philanderer. That does not make a murder.
This case at best, at best, we`re looking at a man that has no morals here. But in terms of evidence, this doesn`t rise to being reasonable doubt. There`s no way.
PINSKY: Georgianna, when you said that, I watched Judge Young sort of cringe.
Do you have different opinion, Judge Young?
YOUNG: No, not all. I looked at the tape, I looked at the case, I researched it. I thought to myself, why in God`s man does they charge him with such flimsy evidence? So many years after the fact, and all you have is a cell phone which may or may not have been in his control? And you have the fact that he happened to be a scumbag? That equals a murder charge?
I don`t get it Dr. Drew. I just don`t understand.
PINSKY: Well, let`s look at what the police found on his computer. They found searchers for swingers clubs? Searchers for how to cheat on your wife?
Lynn, this guy sounds like a barrel of fun.
BERRY: Yes, he`s a real keeper, huh? I mean, listen, the thing that scares me about this guy is that he seems like a complete narcissist. And narcissism is something that -- I mean, you can speak to as far as the medical side of it, but that kind of ego and power trip is something that scarce me, because they`re charming. And they tend to lure in women with being so attractive and --
PINSKY: Right. They seem powerful. They can seem attractive. But they don`t understand or don`t appreciate that you exist really. Really bad narcissist certainly doesn`t appreciate you have feelings.
But on the phone, I have Jackie Morales. She is a former co-worker of David Pietz.
Now, Jackie, you were the first one to final a sexual harassment claim against Pietz. Can you tell us what led to that filing?
JACKIE MORALES, CO-WORKER (via telephone): Yes, he was my general manager at Bally Total Fitness. There were numerous occasions when he would very, very confidently tell me that he was in control of my career at Bally Total Fitness, that I shouldn`t go against him, that he was the golden boy of the company.
He would make statements in front of other trainers asking to rate, you know, what looked better on me -- my butt or my arms? He made comments about, you know, would I -- was I putting on weight because my breasts were getting bigger?
He was very, very, very controlling when can came to any of the females in Bally Total Fitness at that time. And the first --
PINSKY: Jackie, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. What did you think when you heard that Nicole had been murdered?
MORALES: I knew he did it. There was not one doubt, not one question.
PINSKY: Mark, you have a question for Jackie. One of our panel or most of our panel --
EIGLARSH: Jackie, tell me if this is -- Jackie, tell me if this is true. I heard that in your presence, this guy not only bragged about being an expert on CIS, but he actually diagrammed on a board how to get rid of bodies and how to get rid of evidence? If that`s true, why aren`t you testifying in this case?
MORALES: I have said numerous times that -- that is true. That is 100 percent true. I have made statements numerous times as to why I`ve not been called. I`m actually very, very shocked that I have not been called.
PINSKY: I want to point out that we have reaped out to Pietz`s attorneys, and have not heard back.
Jenny, do you have a question for Jackie?
HUTT: I do. Jackie, did he ever have confrontations that you were aware of? That you saw that you witnessed?
MORALES: Confrontations, no. David was very, very good at -- when you stand up to him, he has the power to manipulate you into thinking that you are wrong.
PINSKY: I understand also he seemed to be sort of almost bipolar, judging from what I`ve heard him describe, very high and very low.
MORALES: Hot and cold, hot and cold. If you do what he says, and you do it the way he wants you do it, he`s your best friend. The second you crossed him, you can see him calculating how he`s going to get back at you.
PINSKY: Did he ever talk about his wife?
MORALES: Yes. He would speak about her. We would have our sales meetings, and he would make comments like, you know -- she was very good friends with our V.P. at the time, and how it was more -- she was keeping him his job. She got him that job. She was -- he needed her at that time for job security.
PINSKY: I wonder who else -- anybody else have questions for Jackie?
Lynn, you have questions for her?
BERRY: Jackie, I have a quick question. I understand you had complaint to your superiors about being sexually harassed. We are they sort of under David`s so-called spell as well that he was able to control everyone around him because of his personality?
MORALES: Yes, I`m told he was the golden boy of the company and he would never hurt a soul.
BERRY: Even when you described those interactions that you had?
PINSKY: Judge Young?
YOUNG: Jackie, I understand that David would not qualify for sainthood until any circumstances. But did you ever hear him have any fights with either his wife or any of the female workers at the gym? And what was his temperament like when he was working at the gym?
MORALES: Oh, he was -- he would yell. I mean, if you didn`t close a deal, if you didn`t do something the way he told you to do it, he would raise his voice. He would get very, very agitated, and it would rise to the level where you could see him shaking, I mean, you could see him shaking, and then he would control himself, it was like he caught himself what he was doing, and then he would go calm.
YOUNG: Did he ever fight with his wife?
MORALES: I`m sorry. What`s that?
PINSKY: Did he ever fight with his wife that you know of?
MORALES: No, I never heard anything or saw anything.
PINSKY: All right. Jackie, thank you very much.
I`ve got next, another woman who worked with the suspect. She is here with us. She says he talked about porn and the job and actually traumatized her, and drove her to therapy.
And later, Amanda Bynes` mom has something to say about her daughter`s health. You`ll hear it after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- just trying to listen her up to get her to do threesome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just the three of us kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I asked him why he was getting married, and he said that at that point, it was too late to back out of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He asked me if I wanted to go have coffee with him. I took it as more than a friendly coffee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember kissing him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had sex.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: You can`t complaint about -- the men are cheating with somebody. You can`t complain about men being dogs if you`re laying down for them.
PINSKY: Time again for "Behavior Bureau." Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Judy, Sam, Cheryl, and Danine are with us. Coming up, we will talk to a woman who worked with David, another woman. She says his behavior sent her to therapy.
But first, I want to give Danine a chance to respond to her comment about lying down with dogs last night, if you recall. Let me revisit that for us. My executive producer and I were talking about how we need to compile a daily dose of Danines, because you come up with some zingers.
PINSKY: Explain the lying down with dogs for us.
MANETTE: The thing is is that when I made the comment about some women being so desperate that they`ll just for a pair of pants in the house, that they`ll just take any, you know, philandering pig, and lying down with dogs. I was not talking about the deceased`s betrayed wife. I think a lot of people were the impression that I was bashing her. I was talking about the home wreckers.
That`s where my issue is. I would never bash a betrayed. I`m very protective of betrayed spouses. But the home wreckers? It`s open season on then. I have no love for them. None. So, that`s who I was directing my comment.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Yes, but Danine, listen, I don`t think it`s right, and I would hope that that`s not what like my daughter would grow up to be, but isn`t the duty, really -- doesn`t it really belong to the husband? Shouldn`t he be the one who`s faithful to his wife? I mean, you would think that these women would do the right thing and not want to interfere in a marriage, but a girl`s going to do what a girl is going to do, I suppose.
MANETTE: Right. That`s correct, Jenny. And I see him in custody, in his jumpsuit, with his handcuffs on, and I feel real good about that, because --
MANETTE: But then I see those little home wreckers parade around on the stand, you know, it was a threesome, and they just enjoying this limelight, because they`re feeling so special about themselves. And that makes me sick. So, I`m calling them out at this poont (ph), because he`s getting his just rewards right now.
PINSKY: I` m going to go to Sam next, but I got to say all the narcissistic males are certainly reassured by your ladies` attacking the women who participated in this --
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: No, they`re attacking both of them. And I agree with Danine. Danine, I agree with you tenfold. I think that the man is in the wrong, but why are we excusing these women? I mean, give me a break. She`s right. He is a pig.
MANETTE: Home wreckers.
PINSKY: I want to get to Laura who had worked with David Pietz in 2011 and ultimately left her job because of the constant inappropriate behavior. She says he actually traumatized her. And Cheryl and Judy, I want you to stand by. We`ll talk about how that would happen. Laura, what did happen to you?
VOICE OF LAURA, FMR. CO-WORKER OF DAVID PIETZ: Hi. Well, I worked with Dave. I was transferred under him as a personal banker at the bank. And, well, for one thing, he just wasn`t supportive at all, but that`s obviously away from the issue. It first kind of came on to me, his odd personality. He had these big mood swings like he would come in in the morning and have bags under his eyes.
He was all depressed, and had, you know, kind of smelled like he`d been drinking, some days. And then, some days he would come in and be happy as a clam, talking about how he hooked up with some girl.
PINSKY: And what was it that traumatized you?
LAURA: Well, he would push the boundaries. So -- push the limits as far as his behavior with me. I`m a young woman, and I had been married for three years at that point, happily married, and, you know things like I wore a skirt to work and he would comment about how my legs looked really nice in the skirt.
And I, you know, told him, excuse me, I`m happily married and he was like, oh no, I didn`t mean it like that. So, he always had like a comeback for me, whenever I would say, like, oh that`s inappropriate. He would always say like, oh, well, I didn`t mean it like that.
PINSKY: Again, remind people again that we did reach out to Pietz`s attorney but have not heard back. Judy, I understand you have a question for Laura.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Hey, Laura. Thanks for being with us. And you know, I`m sorry to hear that you were basically sexually harassed. You know, what I think about when I hear about David`s story is that he`s a male borderline. I mean, he`s really pushing the boundaries all the time.
He`s always testing his limits. I was just wondering, were you kind of part of that bad side/good side part of his behavior where one day he loves you and one day he hates you? Did you see anything like that, that polarity
LAURA: Yes. I mean, he -- yes, Wednesday, he were doing great, and another day, you know, your job performance was terrible. And it was just based on how he was feeling for the most part.
PINSKY: It could be bipolar, though. Danine, you have a question?
MANETTE: Yes. I`m wondering. Did he ever put his hands on you? Because if he did, I`m hoping you slapped the hell out of him, but did he ever touch you or did he just make these comments.
LAURA: It was mostly comments. I mean, it might have been like a hand on the shoulder, but nothing that I can point to as particularly sexual. I mean, he -- at one point, he brought up pornography, and I was like, that`s inappropriate to be talking about in the workplace, and he`s like, you know, I don`t know, it`s -- it was just always something different. It was very weird.
PINSKY: Cheryl, I`m going to give you a chance to ask Laura questions? Hang on a second. Cheryl, go ahead.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Laura, I`m so glad you`re with us. And I think that you have such great instincts that you noticed how uncomfortable it was and you kept maintaining those boundaries with him, even though he was pushing back.
Do you think that maybe this guy`s behavior was more apparent and easier to address in a work environment like a bank than it was in the health club where he was before where it was all about like bodies and all of that?
LAURA: I would say so. Working in especially the bank we were in, very small branch. So, there`s only so much space and so many places you can be without having -- mean, you got cameras on you, but as far as, you know, having other people --
PINSKY: Sam, finish me up here. Sam.
SCHACHER: Right. Well, clearly, my question is, clearly, this guy is a jerk and inappropriate, but I`m curious if he was ever dangerous? Did you ever fear him?
LAURA: When I found out about his past, I was definitely afraid. When I quit my job, my exit interview --
PINSKY: What past? What are you talking about, Laura? What do you mean?
LAURA: From that -- what happened to his wife.
PINSKY: You mean the wife -- OK. Go ahead.
LAURA: Yes. So, when I heard about that, I was literally in shock, because I had no doubt in my mind that he did it.
PINSKY: There you go. We`ll leave it at that. We`ll leave it at that, Laura. That`s -- enough said. All right. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you, panel.
We`ve got Amanda Bynes` mom commenting about her care. We`re back to talk about that after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda Bynes, probably one of your kids` favorite Nickelodeon stars, is guilty of sending nasty tweets, wearing bizarre wigs.
PINSKY: "You`re ugly and I want you to leave me alone."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s accused of lighting a gas can on fire in someone`s driveway.
PINSKY: This is serious. It is acute mental illness. It is dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arrested last night for allegedly throwing a bong out a window.
PINSKY: Schizophrenia, bipolar mania, this is when it comes on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forced into a psych hospital for a mental evaluation.
PINSKY: She has to be held to keep her safe.
AMANDA BYNES, ACTRESS: I hope for one day just be as happy as I am now.
PINSKY: I`m of the opinion that the key to saving Amanda may be conservatorship.
PINSKY: OK. I`m back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. I guess, I was talking about conservatorship well before Amanda Bynes` parents stepped in and got that conservatorship. Of course, I have our panel, Samantha, Danine, Lynn. And by the way, Lynn will forever be known as Lynn "Harley" Berry.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: I appreciate that. I`ll take it.
PINSKY: Yes. You shouldn`t be embarrassed about that. I just want pictures, though. Amanda`s mom was, in fact, granted conservatorship. She was moved to what has been called a private treatment facility this week.
Here now is what mom just had said about Amanda, quote, "99 -- almost 99 percent of things were written about my daughter are false. We`ve never released any information regarding her treatment or diagnosis. We truly believe in keeping our daughter`s situation private. Both my husband and I love Amanda very much, and we know that she will get through this situation."
HUTT (ph): That`s a lovely thing to write.
PINSKY: Well, I have a couple of notes on it. One is, they`re entitled to confidential care, no doubt about that. But Lynn, she has been public about moving to a specific treatment facility. That facility is a facility in Southern California that treats dual diagnosis. So, that means it is licensed to handle people with addiction and psychiatric problems. So, those are the patients being admitted to that facility. Lynn, am I right on that?
BERRY: Absolutely. And I think that one percent of truth that she`s talking about is that her daughter has a serious mental illness and likely a substance abuse problem as a result of that mental illness. And what was so sad --
PINSKY: Lynn, Lynn, it`s not likely. It has to be, because she was admitted to a dual diagnosis program. So, by giving us the facility she`s being admitted to, they`re telling us she has both. She`s going to what happens is -- and Samantha, I know you want to ring in here, but let me just quickly say that she was treated initially in a psychiatric hospital.
You don`t stay forever in a psychiatric hospital. Once you`re stable, you go down to the next level of care, which is a residential sort of setting, which is where she`s gone, then you go to outpatient setting. It`s a step-wise approach. Just the way we would withdraw antibiotics. We`d give them IV antibiotics in the hospital first, then oral antibiotics when you go home, and then you watch off (ph) antibiotic. Psychiatric care is very similar and how it steps down. Sam, what do you want to say?
SCHACHER: Well, I just wanted to present the other side is that Amanda Bynes` attorney had stated that the reason why she left the psychiatric UCLA hospital was because of the fact she felt that she was scared, that there were people, other patients that were far off worse mentally than she was, and she wanted to transfer to the canyon, this other treatment center. Now, he also noted that she was there not to be treated for drug rehab, but specifically, for her mental health disorder.
PINSKY: But then, they`ve sent her to a place that does also include chemical dependency. Danine, you and I know this environment. The fact is, of course, it`s scary to be in a psychiatric hospital, and of course, her doctors would work to have her out as soon as possible. Yes, I`m sure she was scared, but they would only let her go to a step down level of care if she were truly ready for that.
MANETTE: Exactly. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And I`m really, really excited that her parents have just really gone all in on this. They followed the lead that was given, you know, by Britney Spears` father. And I`m just so proud and glad that they just completely took this thing on by the horn.
PINSKY: Danine, you must be in the situation I`m in all the time where I`m telling people to get conservatorships, and they don`t, because they`re fearful of disrupting the relationship and people die because they don`t take care of their adult --
MANETTE: People are afraid.
PINSKY: Yes. Lynn, last comment.
BERRY: Well, I just think -- there are a lot of people out there that can`t get conservatorship, because their children are adults. If they`re over 18 --
PINSKY: You can. No, you can.
PINSKY: If you`re under 18, they don`t need a conservatorship. They command they care as a parent.
BERRY: But they have to do something, and what happened was she lit someone`s house on fire, and so a judge granted this family conservatorship, because she did something. But there are a lot of parents --
PINSKY: Right, because she`s dangerous.
BERRY: -- I wish we could get. Yes. There are a lot of parents who say I wish I could conservatorship.
PINSKY: The doctor (INAUDIBLE) and say the patient`s life is in danger.
OK. Got to move on. Next, what Miley Cyrus is doing in this conversation about Amanda Bynes. I`ll tell you about that after this.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, also, Samantha, Danine, and Lynn. And we`ve been discussing Amanda Bynes and her recovery. And now, Miley Cyrus and Sinead O`Connor are involved. Sinead posted an open letter to Miley warning her about the parallels of the music business. Miley, apparently, took offense, and she tweeted.
"Before Amanda Bynes, there was dot, dot, dot," and she linked to this list of tweets from Sinead O`Connor. Can we show on close-up there, this some extraordinary -- she appeared -- there`s one. "Does anyone know a psychiatrist in Dublin or Wicklow who could urgently see me today, please? I`m really unwell and in danger." Clearly asking for psychiatric help, Sinead O`Connor. Jenny, you want to comment.
HUTT: Yes. I do want to comment. When I read this letter from Sinead O`Connor this morning, I felt like it was a little bit passive aggressive, Dr. Drew.
HUTT: I felt there was another way she could have gone about reaching out to Miley if she were really concerned. I think Miley`s career is doing just fine.
PINSKY: Well, Sam, you say you agree with Jenny.
SCHACHER: I agree with Jenny tenfold. I mean, did anybody else watched the Miley (ph) movement last night on MTV and you clearly see that this girl`s choices are orchestrated and what Sinead suggested was that they weren`t orchestrated, that she`s prostituting around under the bail of the music industry. And I think she took offense to that, but she should not have handled it by making a mockery of mental illness.
PINSKY: Hang on. Lynn says no. Lynn is shaking her head. Go ahead, Lynn. What do you think?
BERRY: After the VMAs, I really honestly said Miley Cyrus needs to turn in her lady badge. She is no longer welcome in the club. She is no longer a lady. This is a girl who has taken it to a completely different level, but the one thing that she wants is attention, and I think that Sinead O`Connor gave her exactly what she wanted, and she will thrive on this for as long as she can. She`s a caricature of herself. She`s not a lady.
PINSKY: But Danine she is not ill. Sinead, I guess, has psychiatric issues and we shouldn`t be judging her or, you know, casting --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Danine.
MANETTE: That`s why people are reluctant to get psychiatric help, because they`re criticized and they`re look down upon if they do oftentimes. Though, I agree with some of the statements that were made in the letter. I have a real problem with these open displays of ridicule that people are doing now, whether it`s your kids on the internet, in your computer or whatever you`re doing.
You know, just handle these things privately if you care about this person. Her delivery was all wrong to me.
PINSKY: I tell you where she did -- she did say something interesting that Lynn is sort of zeroing in on is the lady card. She was talking about - very accurately, Sinead was about the impact her choices -- now, I think Miley`s choices are very conscious choices are having on other young women. Lynn, don`t you agree with that, at least?
BERRY: Yes. I mean, listen, I think what Miley Cyrus has done is the farthest thing from sexy on the planet. When you ride a wrecking ball naked and like a sledgehammer, you`re just taking it to a whole another level. Keep a little mystery, girlfriend. It doesn`t have to be --
HUTT: It`s not like riding a Harley. It`s nothing like riding a Harley.
BERRY: I`m clothed --
SCHACHER: I mean, keep in mind, though, you guys, we`re seeing snippets of Miley Cyrus, but if you listen to her interview, she says that she wasn`t trying to be sexy. She`s trying to make light and have fun and have a good time.
PINSKY: All right.
SCHACHER: So, there`s more to it.
BERRY: I mean, we could go on and on about whether this is a disservice to women, bottom line she`s just got to turn it in.
PINSKY: No doubt. We will. But first, the "Last Call" is coming up.
PINSKY: "Last Call," Jenny, I`m just glad you haven`t turned in your lady card. And I`ve also learned tonight that riding a Harley includes part of what you get when you get your lady card, I guess, yes?
HUTT: I guess so. I guess I don`t have a lady card then.
PINSKY: "HLN After Dark" starts right now.