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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Frustration Builds as Shutdown Continues

Aired October 3, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Breaking news. We are now less than five hours away from day four of the U.S. government shutdown. And it has been a hellish day on Capitol Hill. Chaos and panic erupt. Gunfire rings out, sparking a police chase from the White House all the way to Capitol Hill. The already shut down government went on lock down. People ran from windows; they hid behind trees. A jittery nation asked, "What the heck is going on?" Indeed.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. That`s what we`re all wondering tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: It seems like there`s chaos in every corner in the nation`s Capitol tonight. Now, while police are saying there`s absolutely no known connection between this car chase and terrorism or the government shutdown, and cops describe it as an isolated incident, it`s certainly another shocker in the nation`s Capitol.

Now we`re getting more details coming in second by second. This entire chase from start to finish was caught on tape, and a slew of people watched it as it all went down.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was about three or four cop cars that passed me. About another 30 seconds after that I heard a series of loud pops, like a gun going off.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police say it all began when the suspect, a woman -- we`re now learning she`s from Connecticut -- with a 1-year-old girl in the backseat trying to get through a security checkpoint near the White House. Guns were drawn, and as she puts it in reverse and flees the scene, charging red lights and barricades, shots rang out. She`s driving away. Cops say her car hit a law enforcement officer. We`re happy to say that that cop is OK tonight. A member of the Secret Service also injured, also OK. Police pursued her. They opened fire. That woman who was driving that car is dead tonight.

But cops say this was no accident. Her motive, a total mystery.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, it`s just one more thing making things seem totally out of control on the Hill as the government shutdown drags on.

I want to hear from you. Are you as fed up as I am? Call me: 1-877- JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Tonight wow, do we have a Lion`s Den. It`s the battle of the talk show hosts, representing a whole bunch of different views. And they`re ready to fight it out over the lockdown, the shutdown. We`re talking also about the war over Obama care.

These are separate events. Make no mistake. I`m not trying to meld them. But looking at all this caught-on- tape chaos from the outside. What on earth does the rest of the world think about our country right now? What can we take away from this? And I begin with Yolanda Watts, blog talk radio host.

YOLANDA WATTS, TALK SHOW HOST: Jane, I tell you, I`m so glad to be here, because I think all of us need to talk about this. Our nation seems to be in chaos, and I can`t say that these things aren`t related. The news is still coming out about who the suspect was. But was it a disgruntled government employee?

I mean, we`ve got a standoff going on. We`ve got a shutdown of the government. We`ve got chaos in Capitol Hill and in our schools and every place else. What is going on?

I`ll tell you one thing. With all this dissension between Republicans and Democrats, there were Republicans and Democrats were together, huddled trying to save their lives today. And I hope, and I`ve been reading in the press in some of the reports that in the time that they were together, trying to deal with saving their freaking lives in Washington, D.C., on Capitol Hill, they were also talking about what can we do to compromise?

Maybe when your life is in danger or you realize the frustration going across this country, you start deciding maybe compromising ain`t a bad idea.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I like it.

STEPHANIE MILLS, RADIO HOST: You know what, Jane? They say there`s no atheists in fox holes. Maybe there`s no Democrats and Republicans in fox holes, as well.

You know, Congress has a 10 percent approval rating. I think that when people heard shots fired at the Capitol, this is -- you`re right. It feels like complete chaos.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: John DePetro, radio talk show host. Does this become a metaphor? Oh my God. Gunshots ring out. Suddenly, the Democrats and the Republicans, instead of hating each other, they`re hugging each other because they`re away from the windows and they`re worried about they lives. Maybe they should take a lesson from that.

JOHN DEPETRO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I don`t think so, Jane. Right now President Obama, he`s not the commander in chief. He`s the commander in chaos. The country is out of control. To me this is a lack of leadership. It falls right in the lap of President Obama. Between the botched negotiations with Syria.

AMY HOLMES, ANCHOR, "THE HOT LIST" ON THEBLAZE.COM: This was his fault?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re blaming the shooting at the Capitol on President Obama? This is, like, the height of idiocy.

DEPETRO: ... out of control right now, it falls on President Obama for failed negotiations with this whole mess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is patently ridiculous.

WATTS: How does this fall on President Obama?

HOLMES: If I could interject. I work...

WATTS: ... ridiculous. I think that`s the whole point of this whole chaos.

DEPETRO: The government shutdown falls in the lap of the president. There is no leadership.

WATTS: No. This falls into the lap of every American to support our president and to support the agenda of helping people right now.

DEPETRO: Absolutely not. No. He has to be the leader here, Jane.

WATTS: This is not the time to be a politician. This is the time to be a human. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: I worked in the Capitol. I worked under the Capitol dome. And I was evacuated twice during, you know, some very frightening attacks on the Capitol. It turns out in both instances that they were false alarms. Thank goodness.

I can tell you from personal experience that when these things happen your first thought, of course, is terrorism because of what happened on 9/11. And you are not thinking as a partisan. It`s not Republican; it`s not Democrat. You are running out of there; you are running for your life. You`re trying to find a safe place to be.

Whether or not this comedy lasts, whether or not, you know, setting aside the partisan, you know, labels as Stephanie was saying, that partisanship maybe goes out the window in a fox hole to mix my metaphors.

(CROSSTALK)

DEPETRO: With the name calling that`s going on with President Obama and the Democrats. They`re no better than the bikers on the West Side Highway.

RYAN CLAYTON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WOLF PAC: All right. All right, buddy. Hey, let me tell you the most amazing thing about what happened today, is that the Capitol police were working for free, because Congress can`t get their act together to pay their own bills and to make this a functioning government.

So while the Capitol Police are literally facing down danger and gunshots and cars threatening to run them over, the cowards in Congress can`t even find the courage to get across the table from one another and negotiate in good faith.

And that`s the problem in this country right now. It`s not the people of this country. It`s not even the president. It`s the people in Congress. It`s just a broken institution. Congress is broke.

DEPETRO: Wrong. It is the president.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We can all agree on right now. Capitol Hill is a mess right now. Paralyzed and confused. Now, if -- if government isn`t doing its job, should we get our money back? I like the sound of that. What do you think at home?

One of America`s favorite superstars, Sandra Bullock, summed it up. Take it away, Sandra.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDRA BULLOCK, ACTRESS: So if the government shuts down, does that mean I have -- do I get to stop paying taxes for right now? Because they`re not working? That is awesome. OK. The amount that they`re closed, I`m not paying my taxes. And watch: I get arrested tonight, because she`s not paying her taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or audited.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The IRS still going full steam ahead collecting our tax dollars that we sweat to earn, even though our government is providing precious few services.

Oh, by the way, they`re putting audits on hold. OK. If you`ve been like audited, as I have, you know putting an audit on hold is like leaving somebody who`s getting root canal in the dentist chair while you go on vacation.

All right. Back out to the Lion`s Den. Michael Graham, you`ve been uncharacteristically quiet during all this. Do we deserve, all Americans, a tax refund because these bozos aren`t during their job?

MICHAEL GRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No. We deserve a tax refund for the crappy job they do when they show up to do their job. We deserve a refund for the lousy job that we get from the post office that lost $16 billion last year with a monopoly and not to mention, half of my mail. And when my adult -- excuse me, my important naturalist magazines do show up, half the pages are missing. This is a problem.

We deserve a refund from the crappy NSA that spies on me while I`m surfing my very important research for my radio show that just happens to have the word "naughty" in it. But they can`t catch the terrorists at the local mosque who are blogging about terrorism on the Web.

We don`t need a refund for what they do when they`re not working. We need a refund for what they do when they are working.

And by the way, the Capitol Police are paid. And, by the way, the woman who drove up to the car was a dental hygienist from Connecticut with a background of mental problems. Just to interject a few facts here as we move forward.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re raising a lot of points about the NSA having it so together that folks inside the NSA can engage in love int. Yes, they can track their girlfriends. And word is that they have been tracking their girlfriends and their love interests using high-tech equipment.

So if they can do that, why did the Obama care day one Web site get swamped and couldn`t handle all the requests? Should we bring efficiency, 21st century efficiency to government? That`s what Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook wants to see. We`re going to hear from him on the other side. Stay right there. And we`re taking your calls.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 90-year-old World War II veteran. I don`t recognize the country I fought for anymore.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 90-year-old World War II veteran. I don`t recognize the country I fought for anymore.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: A wild, crazy, frightening day on Capitol Hill. We`re going to show you some of the images, the sights and the sounds of the chaos that erupted today when -- Take a look at this. This is from a cell-phone camera. Just panic and terror. Gunshots rang out.

It turns out that a 34-year-old woman from Connecticut in a car with an 18-month-old baby girl sitting in the back seat allegedly tries to jam into a barricade near the White House.

Law enforcement, including Secret Service and Capitol Police, pulled their guns. Next thing you know there`s a wild car chase, which is also caught on tape.

There`s the little 18-month-old girl. Her mother is dead. Yes, her mother is dead, was shot.

And we are being told right now that law enforcement has surrounded the woman`s house in Connecticut.

Now, there is no known nexus between the car chase that went down and terrorism. But the director of national intelligence has just, ironically, warned today that our nation is more vulnerable to terrorist attacks because of the ongoing government shutdown that, in a couple of hours, less than five, is going to hit day four.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: This seriously damages our ability to protect the safety and security of this nation and as citizens. And the danger here, of course, is that this will accumulate over time. The damage will be insidious. So each day that goes by, the jeopardy increases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Reports claim 72 percent of our intelligence agencies` civilian workforce has been sent home, and there are holes in our counterterrorism department right now.

Back out to the Lion`s Den. So Michael Graham, radio talk show host, you were saying, well, on a good day when the government`s working they can`t find terrorists. Well, now the government is shut down. Are we even more of a target for terrorism in America right now?

GRAHAM: Well, now know, I`m not an expert. We just had the bombing here in Boston, of course. But it seems something obvious to me.

Even the president means it when he says we`re in more -- and his administration -- we`re in more danger with this shutdown, or he means it when he says, "I will absolutely not negotiate." But how can he mean both? If we really are in danger, why not make a deal with the Republicans? Why not sit down and work out a deal?

They`ve got a deal on the table with only two minor changes to Obama care, and we can put everyone back to work and everyone can be happy. If we really are in danger, wouldn`t that be what a president would do?

DEPETRO: Can I jump in here about what James Clapper is saying, about the...?

MILLS: This is, as 72 percent of the American people have said, on the Republicans` head. Nobody thinks -- 72 percent of Americans do not think the government should be shut down over trying to defund the law of the land...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

MILLS: ... which was passed three years ago, upheld by the Supreme Court, reaffirmed in two landslide elections that the president won.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a law. It`s after the fact. One at a time.

DEPETRO: The fighting that`s going on that they`re throwing the name calling. The president is behaving like Barney Fife. I mean, this is embarrassing at this point. Maybe he was a community organizer. He definitely was a community negotiator.

By trying to browbeat the Republicans and force them under the table and trying to crash the economy, he`s the one that has the most to lose. And he keeps setting up all these deadlines. He failed in Syria. Now he`s failing with this. How far is this going to go?

WATTS: ... disrespect and the insults on the president of the United States to pass a law. A law. It is passed. It is wasting American time to go back and try to...

HOLMES: That`s the point of legislation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you don`t get to re-litigate. The mile markers.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: ... repeals. Are you kidding me? Of course.

DEPETRO: He is -- he needs Tom Hagen from "The Godfather." The president is...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Hold on.

CLAYTON: And it was upheld and constitutional. Look, man, it went through the democratic process.

HOLMES: Parts of it were not considered constitutional.

CLAYTON: The president signed it into law.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. I want to ask a question. Are you really suggesting, John DePetro, that we should take down the Obama care Web site? That we should -- how do you -- The train has left the station. It`s already...

DEPETRO: What`s the phone number? This is incompetence. Are you aware what the phone number is? I mean, that`s what they say to the American people. That`s what the American people are saying.

CLAYTON: I think there`s more important things -- there`s more important issues facing our country right now.

DEPETRO: This is embarrassing.

CLAYTON: I mean, James Clapper is a guy on the program that`s spying on every American.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, one at a time, people.

CLAYTON: And nobody is talking about that right now. That`s a huge problem. Why aren`t we having that conversation, about how our own government is violating the Constitution by looking at everybody`s e-mail. Maybe if we put the Constitution...

HOLMES: I would love...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. I agree with you. I think the person who said that -- hold on a second. I think the person who said that is Ryan Clayton from Wolf PAC. And I believe that Wolf PAC wants a new solution.

I mean, I am so sick to death, and most American people are, of this left/right, Republican/Democrat, conservative/liberal back and forth. It`s such a tired, stale, 20th Century argument. People want efficiency and not just on snooping on them. They want the government Web site to work.

And we all know that there is a big -- I don`t like to say a big elephant in the room, because it`s species-ist. But there is a big unspoken aspect to all of this. And that is that the government is inefficient. It just is. And you can`t get the Web site to work.

Please be patient. Please come back later. Please call in the morning. And it never seems to be the time that you can sign on.

And yet, when it comes to the NSA -- woo! -- they can spy on their girlfriends. Are you kidding me? We`ve got to look at bringing American government into the 21st century. Just like we`ve had a technological revolution, an information revolution, a communications revolution. A revolution in commerce.

Let`s get the government operating the way FedEx and Amazon and Facebook and Google operate with the same level of efficiency.

Stay right there. We`ll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What message would you send lawmakers?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get your acts together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What message would you like to send to lawmakers on Capitol Hill?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What message would you like to send to lawmakers?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To get their act together and get Congress back open again. This is ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gunshots ring out on Capitol Hill. A high-speed chase from the White House to the Capitol. And a woman shot dead after she, according to law enforcement, charges a barricade, refuses to listen to instructions, puts her car in reverse, takes off. They`re chasing after her, and the real terror, she`s got an 18-month-old child in the backseat. That child OK tonight.

Two members of law enforcement who were injured OK tonight, but the woman in question, a 34-year-old woman from Connecticut, who according to some homeland security officials has a history, possibly, of mental issues, is dead and law enforcement -- there`s the little girl right there. She`s OK tonight. But obviously she`s lost her mother, so it`s tragic for her.

And law enforcement surrounding the woman`s home in Connecticut, trying to understand the motive. Why? Why? Why?

But again, Yolanda Watts, a possibility that she just had mental issues. How does that, in your opinion, relate to the shutdown?

WATTS: Well, I think that it`s a big deal. Because adding another piece of -- I don`t know, the flammable on this fire, this chaos going on in America, this perfect storm for chaos, we have a real mental health issue in this country. And we don`t have enough resources as it is to take care of that. You`ve got that coupled with anger and frustration.

MILLS: The Affordable Care Act gives more money to mental health. So that`s the irony of all this. That`s a big issue right now.

DEPETRO: Mental health is on Capitol Hill.

WATTS: Yes. That`s not helping progress the conversation.

MILLS: Guess who called the Republican representatives in Congress lemmings --lemmings wearing suicide vests? A Republican from Mississippi. Representative Nunes called his colleagues lemmings in suicide vests.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? I want to go out to the phone lines, because I think Americans are tired of, oh, the president`s wrong. No, the Republicans are wrong. No, the Democrats are wrong in the Senate. No, the Republicans in the House. I mean, people are so sick of that.

Let`s go to Denise in Texas, a fresh voice out of Texas. Denise, thanks for your patience. What do you have to say about all this?

CALLER: Well, Jane, all I have to say is that the Congress is finally stepping up to the executive branch of the government and saying no. I think it`s everyone`s fault. But I do fault the president for not putting his foot down, not having a comprehensive plan. I have several people who have gone onto that Web site. They want so much personal information before you can even see if you`re qualified.

And the price tag, if people can`t afford to feed their families and take care of their own business, now how are they going to call this affordable health insurance? I just think it`s a crime. And that`s all I have to say. And thank you for taking my call.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know...

MILLS: Really? Come on. First of all the Web sites are crashing because so many people are trying to sign up for this "disaster," as the Republicans say, and any insurance company would ask you personal...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold on. Amy.

MILLS: Of course they`re going to ask personal questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Amy.

HOLMES: That is totally not true. In fact, we found out that California grossly, grossly overestimated or, you know, lied frankly about the number of people who went to the Web site. They said it was five million. It was more like 500,000.

So we`re not even getting straight, truthful answers from the administration and from state government about what this Web site, where this Web site is, and if it`s ready for prime time. Clearly, it`s not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we have to do something about the problems in our country. We can wait until people with mental health issues do something dangerous, or we can give them treatment before they become dangerous. How are we going to pay for that? Is that the right way to spend our money?

On the other side, we`re taking your calls. What a mess? Huh? Really.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIRENS)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It`s day one of the federal government shutdown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Totally. Totally can`t believe it. They`re all freaking nuts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The government shut down at midnight last night. First time in 17 years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s awful. I think it`s awful. It`s terrible. It should not have been done. It should not have gone this far. Do your job or get out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop acting (ph) crazy. Get your act together.

JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: Dear Congress, 33 percent of the government is shut down, how come we`re still paying 100 percent of our taxes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While you work for us, you have found ways to hold us hostage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police were very quick to surround us. And they told us not to move, to hit the concrete and don`t move. We could smell the gun powder, and so we knew it was very close.

SANDRA BULLOCK, ACTRESS: For the amount that they`re closed I`m not paying my taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The IRS says you must file taxes during the shutdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is our government.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just kind of a little bit embarrassing to know the government is on a hold.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m having a hard time recognizing whose interests you`re representing.

BULLOCK: And watch I get arrested tonight because I didn`t pay taxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Day three of the shutdown and suddenly the government went on lockdown because of a very frightening situation. A woman in a car with an 18-month-old in the backseat allegedly tried to bash through the barricades near the White House. Didn`t respond to orders, guns were drawn and a high-speed chase ensued. Authorities say she hit one law enforcement officer, a social -- a Secret Service member was also hurt. Those two individuals fine tonight but the woman behind the wheel was ultimately shot dead.

Her 18-month-old was taken out safe and sound. She is ok tonight, but it is a terrible tragedy and authorities are trying to find out why. She`s from Connecticut. There`s the little baby. My heart goes out to that child to be in the middle of this terrible, terrible situation.

And why? Why did the mother do this? Did she have mental health issues? And what can we do about people who do have mental health issues.

The government, the American people tonight trying to figure out how do we navigate through the 21st century with a government that is sometimes stuck in the 20th or 19th century. Let`s face it people on all sides of the political spectrum agreeing the government is a total mess right. It has so many Americans are fed up saying we have got to try something new.

On a recent visit to Capitol Hill, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg said "Let`s reinvent government on the basis of efficiency not ideology."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: It`s hard to affiliate as being either a Democrat or a Republican. I`m pro-knowledge economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love that.

Think about it. We have had a revolution in media, finance, commerce -- we shop online. The government does need to join the 21st century and start thinking not Republican, Democrat -- just efficiency.

Now straight out to the "Lion`s Den", Ryan Clayton, you run Wolf-PAC, which is a new voice that says let`s come up with something different not the same old two-party system. So what`s going to be the new thing?

RYAN CLAYTON, WOLF-PAC: Well, look. You`re 100 percent correct, you know. The debate between bigger and smaller government is over. The new debate is between, you know, better government, faster government, more efficient, more effective government and a broken government, which we have right now. And the reason we have a broken government right now is that funders who bribe our politicians choose who gets to go to Washington, D.C. and then lobbyists write our laws while those same members of Congress spend their days and their nights raising more money so they can get reelected, you know.

That`s the root of the problem and the source of the dysfunction that we`re currently witnessing. And there`s only one solution to that problem. We have to update our constitution. You know, we`re driving a horse and buggy government than an Internet super highway of social and technological and political and economic change. We have to get a 2.0 version out here. We have to get a beta version.

And the first thing we have to do at that is do what 90 percent of Americans want. We want less corruption in our federal government. They want our elections to be free and fair. Again, in this country elections should be free of the corrupting influence of excessive spending by outside interests. And they should be fair enough that any public citizen can run for public office, not just millionaires and allies and their buddies.

And if we start there we can solve all of the other problems we`re facing. And if you want to help out with that you can go Wolf-PAC.com

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are so right.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The reason I interrupt you -- I agree with everything you said.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, hold on for a second.

STEPHANIE MILLER, RADIO HOST: Jane, I have to say something here. You cite the 90 percent number.

(CROSSTALK)

MICHAEL GRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Totally wrong.

MILLER: The last time 90 percent of the American people wanted something it was a background check gun control bill. Guess which faction stopped that? The same one that just shut down the government -- the Tea Party Republicans. So don`t tell me what 90 percent of the American people want.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I want to give Michael (inaudible) radio talk show host --

CLAYTON: 87 percent of people say that the corruption in government is number two issue in this country and there are zero politicians at the federal level talking about it.

GRAHAM: And thank God we have non-corrupt people like you to decide how much of my freedom I get to exercise as I support messages that I believe in. I can`t wait until you tell me stop talking about that. You talk about that too much. You sent out too much mail. You sent to us to the radio. Thank you for supporting freedom.

CLAYTON: What are you even talking about? What I am talking about is I have the right to self-determination.

AMY HOLMES: Jane, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, Michael. I want to ask you a question Michael.

You`re saying that he`s suggesting that our freedoms be curtailed.

GRAHAM: Of course he is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But in fact, if we have corporate socialism in this country -- wait let me finish my question -- if we have corporate socialism in this country and the corporations are dictating to the agencies that are supposed to monitor them, isn`t that really already infringing on our freedoms?

I mean if I can`t get through to the government but some giant company can, isn`t that basically leaving me in the dust?

(CROSSTALK)

GRAHAM: How many votes does that big corporation have?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let him answer. Let him answer.

GRAHAM: So I`m just asking -- I`m just asking the Wolf-PAC president who`s going to decide how much talking is too much talking and when I talk too much? Who is that uncorrupted person in the competition of ideas who is going to say that`s enough from you pro-gun, anti-gun, whoever. You talk too much. Because that`s the system that he just laid out here on your show.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just asked you a question.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you really think it`s capitalism any more when big corporations use the government to achieve their aim? They are giving money so that the corporations can get richer.

HOLMES: If you want to get money out of politics, get politics out of money. We have --

JOHN DEPETRO, RADIO HOST: When a private group grows more powerful than the government itself --

(CROSSTALK)

DEPETRO: When a private entity grows more powerful that in its essence is fascism. And that`s the problem that we have right now. That`s why we have to create a separation of wealth and state in this country.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Hold on. I want to go.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Whoever is talking is what Jane says it is. Jane is the dictator here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my gosh. We have breaking bad now. Listen, I want to go to a voice of reason, that means going to a caller. Danetta, Texas -- thank you for your patience. Danetta Texas. Danetta -- don`t let me down. Ok. What do you have to say about all this?

DORETTA, TEXAS: Ok. It`s Doretta.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Doretta, I apologize.

DORETTA: That`s ok. Everybody messes my name up. That`s ok, sweetheart.

I want to talk about this young lady who lost her life today. I can`t understand why they couldn`t shoot her tires out. They was able to see her. They had the whole car surrounded and how could they miss not seeing that baby in the backseat? Now they are Secret Service and they`re all (inaudible) -- they`re supposed to be very observant of everything around them. And if you look at the (inaudible) closer you can see them touching the car door like they were going to try to open it. You tell me they can`t see that baby in the backseat? Why they have to shoot at her? We don`t know what her problems where.

And she was (inaudible)

(CROSSTALK)

DORETTA: She could have stepped on the gas and went straight through.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are turning around the video. There`s that poor little child again. And we`re going to show you the chase. It`s easy to sit here and armchair quarterback what our law enforcement does. I was a law enforcement officer for a day as part of a story and I did so many things wrong in a film. I shot a bunch of people I wasn`t supposed to -- no, seriously.

You cannot -- this is -- this was not an accident according to law enforcement. This woman didn`t just accidentally bump into those barricades. That was something that law enforcement made very clear. And I got to say if there`s one group of heroes on Capitol Hill tonight, it`s law enforcement. They did what they had to do. The systems worked.

We don`t want to see anybody with a car being able to drive right into the White House lawn into the Rose Garden.

F1: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, you know, personally I`d say that this is -- let me ask you a question, John DePetro. How do we get the rest of government to be as efficient as our cops and our secret service and capitol police were today?

DEPETRO: Jane, I don`t think you ever can. But for someone to second guess what the capitol police had to do in a moment`s notice with national security on the line, I commend them the way you did.

But Jane this starts with communication. President Obama has to stop being such an egomaniac. My name is on Obama care. Don`t cross my red line. It`s all about him. It has to be about moving the country forward and bringing people together. He should be --

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Let me tell you something -- let me tell you something, panel. You better be a little more well-behaved because she just said she shot a bunch of people. So do not mess with Jane Velez-Mitchell.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rolonda, Rolonda -- go for it.

HOMES: Jane, Jane -- in answer to your question though about efficiency, in answer to your question about efficiency. Everybody loves efficiency just like they love moms and apple pie and babies and puppies. But the reason the government is inefficient is because it`s in the public sector. Your plea for government to be more like Facebook, Amazon or Google --

GRAHAM: And it`s too big.

DEPETRO: Really? Because the last time I checked the government invented the Internet which has changed the world.

HOLMES: The government did not.

DEPETRO: Like our American government has created the most efficient tool for organization and communication.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Rolonda, Rolonda, you`re itching to jump in. Go ahead.

ROLONDA WATTS, RADIO HOST: I just think so many Americans feel so separated from their own government. There`s no question how much we all love this country. I just wish we would put all the fighting down and come to some kind of way that we can all appreciate this great land of freedom, and enough of the finger-pointing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The only time it`s going to happen is when both parties fear doing nothing more than they fear each other and despise each other. There`s a growing movement in America. Wow -- when I said the other night, yesterday, this country, the government`s messed up. We have to do something. People are fed up. We got tons of response going "Right on, Jane. Go for it."

Now that means that this isn`t just about being a Democrat or a Republican, there are millions and millions of Americans who just are cynical. They feel that government has become morally corrupt. That it`s all about these politicians staying in power, getting reelected, getting money, getting a cushy job after they leave office. And they want it to change.

How do we change it? On the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This woman arrested for DUI ends up naked and crying in a padded jail cell. Strip searched by four cops, including three guys.

DANA HOLMES, STRIP-SEARCHED BY COPS: I was terrified. I felt helpless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman says the strip search was totally uncalled for and now she`s fighting back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are on-duty deputy sheriffs humiliating and groping a female inmate.

HOLMES: I just thought people shouldn`t be treated that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight the war on women rages on, this time a group of cops being accused of mistreating a 32-year-old woman from Illinois. This surveillance video appears to show Dana Holmes being pinned down by four cops who then proceed to strip her naked. I mean naked as a you-know- what.

Dana claims she was degraded while in custody on suspicion of driving under the influence. Now here she is talking about what she calls a truly horrifying, degrading experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: I was terrified. I felt helpless. I was scared and I lay there crying. I just lay there with no clothes on the floor of the cell. And I just prayed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now she is suing. We reached out to police. They tell us the department does not discuss ongoing investigations. Wow -- what could have sparked them stripping her down? Maybe because she`s good looking? Could that have something to do with it? The video shows her getting a pat down when she lifts one of her legs. Next thing we see the four officers bringing her face down to the ground, tossing her in a cell and taking off all her clothes.

So straight out to our "Lion`s Den" tonight -- Simone Bienne, behavior expert, oh my gosh, well, is it -- that`s what happens when you drive drunk or is it an outrage?

SIMONE BIENNE, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: It`s an absolute outrage. This is a minor offense. Of course, no one is saying what she did was right, driving under the influence. But excuse me, if a policeman does this, first of all he`s in a position of power. Secondly, as a woman, as a woman, like children, we experience psychological damage of being strip searched.

Now I notice you`re wearing clothes, Anahita is wearing clothes; we`re wearing clothes because we are told from an early age that our bodies are private. So to be strip searched like that is horrific and the utmost violation of our privacy with psychological trauma attached to it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I can`t help think that her looks have something to do with it. If we see her picture again -- she`s an attractive woman. And I think that does she have a lawsuit -- Anahita?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely she has a lawsuit, Jane. I think this is beyond reprehensible. Not only from a legal standpoint. If you look at the statute and the state it`s clear. It says that the police officers cannot conduct a strip search unless they reasonably believe that the person has drugs or weapons on them. Not the case here.

And even if they can conduct a strip search, guess what -- it has to be by an officer of the same sex. Not the case here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the woman, ok, the woman is the one taking her pants down. Does that count?

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s illegal.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Sorry. Yes. No, that`s totally illegal. Like I said the statute is clear. You can`t have other officers or other individuals witnessing a strip search when they are of the opposite sex. But even if I`m taking away the illegality of what they did, from just like a human niceness perspective Jane, what they did was so wrong.

I mean this woman, she`s drunk. She`s going to make comment. They said she was mouthing off. So if you mouth off in that jurisdiction, the cops can grab you, body slam you and strip search you in a cell? I don`t think so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It doesn`t seem to me to be necessary whatsoever. I`ve seen drunk tanks and the guys are in there or the women and they`re just sleeping it off. They`re right on the floor, they`re lined upside down. It doesn`t matter, they`re going to black out. They`re just put into a cage and they can wait there until they sober up.

So what was the need to do this? That`s what I`d like to know. Is there any justification that they`re suggesting? No, because they`re not commenting. And guess what; we understand that these officers haven`t even been suspended pending the outcome of the investigation. To me that`s an outrage.

Stay there. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Blazer -- you are wearing a blazer? No, I don`t think so. Izzy, you`re pooped out. You`re like it`s been a long day and your show, I`m exhausted. Tyson, where are you there, Tyson. You`re blending in, but you`re gorgeous, and I love your toy, Tyson. The pups -- spay and neuter yourselves or make sure your parents do it ASAP. We have too many homeless animals.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: I hope they lose their job. I just don`t feel like anyone should be treated that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dana was taken into custody for driving under the influence and what happened was, she said, horribly, horribly degrading. They say -- she says they stripped her naked. And we know that she did challenge someone -- one of the police officers during the arrest.

Listen carefully, and then we`re going to debate this.

All right, well, apparently she said something or did something that appeared to challenge them. But Simone Bienne, that doesn`t give them the right to behave like frat boys because she may have mouthed off. She`s drunk, that`s what people do when they`re drunk. I know this as a recovering alcoholic with 18 years of sobriety. All the things I said when I was drunk, I wouldn`t say sober. But that doesn`t mean you then have cart blanche to strip somebody naked.

BIENNE: Absolutely. This is a total abuse of power. And thank goodness all cops aren`t like this. But what she will be experiencing is posttraumatic stress symptoms. So she could be experiencing anxiety, sleeplessness, depression, even suicidal tendencies. So the fact -- your point that these cops are still at work, I think is an absolute disgrace.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well let me say this. If you have had a situation like this, you want help, you could go to our Facebook page, JaneVelezMitchell Facebook. And we`re going to give you an action point. You can go to the ACLU.

Let me ask you this Anahita. Will it humiliate her again if they have to play this in open court, which they have to if she`s going to sue?

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s a great point. I think it will be humiliating, how could it not be? I think she has a great civil rights lawsuit against the police department and these individual police officers. And I think she should go after them criminally. There`s a possibility of criminal charges against them as well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would the charge be?

SEDAGHATFAR: Sexual assault? The first -- civil rights statute was breached because like I said they didn`t follow the law. They didn`t have a reasonable belief that she was carrying the weapons or she had drugs on her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We got to go. We got to go. But they knew it was on tape. What were they thinking?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We here cover the war on women and this was a war waged against one woman who, yes, she did something wrong, she was driving drunk, but she was strip searched. I mean, beyond the skivvies, naked as a jay bird. Wrong.

Nancy Grace next.

END