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PIERS MORGAN LIVE

Gunfire on the Hill; Shutdown Showdown

Aired October 3, 2013 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: An unbelievable day of breaking news in Washington as the parties battled inside the Capitol, and that's why we're obviously all here tonight, there was panic outside.

Dramatic video. The chase and the gunfire, steps of the Hill, with the woman behind the wheel of the car and a child in the back. Police opened fire on that vehicle. Latest on the driver who was killed by police coming next.

Plus day 3 of America held hostage by politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And there's one way out of this reckless and damaging Republican shutdown, Congress has to pass a budget that funds our government with no partisan strings attached.

REP. ERIC CANTOR, (R) VIRGINIA: The Republican position is, we believe we should fund this government, but we also believe that there should not be any special treatment for anyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: So when will it all end? Well, I'll ask top lawmakers. Also a tropical Storm Karen taking aim along the gulf, will it make landfall and why is the shutdown making it tougher to track, we'll have all that later. And my interview with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and what he says about Iran that may surprise you as much as it surprised me.

We'll begin though with a Breaking News with the deadly chase here in Washington, CNN's Dana Bash and Deborah Feyerick have the very latest on the investigation and the suspect.

Let's start with you Dana, you're actually on Capitol Hill that time and was dealing with this huge shutdown news story. What was the first that you heard that made you realize there was a big event happening right outside?

DANA BASH, CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A huge siren. It was the emergency alert system that was actually installed here in the Capitol after 9/11 that went off. Now, sometimes it goes off just for drills, but that sitting in the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's office which is where I was because we were just getting ready to do an interview and hearing that loud blaring siren and then it was quickly followed by a person on the speaker saying that we were to be basically in lockdown, shelter in place they said.

Certainly as you can imagine was very frightening. The good news is that for myself and for our crew, you know, we immediately got information because of the proximity to power were we were. I mean, we really were able to hear what was going on, but there's no question that the people who protect, when I say, the Capitol, the people protect us everyday because I'm here everyday were pretty remarkable. I mean they got a standing ovation on the House Floor and they deserved that and much, much more. Because Piers they ran to deal with this in a nanosecond, everybody is here working. The entire police force, nobody is taking off and they're not getting paid right now because of furloughs, because of this government shutdown. They did all of their heroic work today without a paycheck.

MORGAN: I mean, having said that, is anyone raising any eyebrows about the fact that it later emerged this woman was unarmed, didn't have a gun on her and certainly the scenes you see earlier on when the police all surrounded with their raised firearms, you know, there could be questions I guess raised about whether the use of deadly force was completely legitimate here. What are you hearing about that?

BASH: they're absolutely could be, I mean there are always, there's always second guessing in situations like this, but I believe given the route that she took from to very important places of power with very -- with a lot of security and law enforcement protecting people and particularly after what happened in 9/11 and the scare even most recently at the Navy Yard, I think everybody was, I know everybody was on high alert. Of course, they're going to do an investigation to see what exactly happened, but so far there doesn't seem to be any second guessing.

MORGAN: Dana just stay with me for a moment and I'll turn this on to Bob Casey his walking outside the Capitol when he heard gunfire, Democrat from Pennsylvania (inaudible), obviously very -- a scary time for everybody at the Capitol Hill and not at least because with all the drama surrounding the shutdown, this could've been anything happening, a terror attack, who knew.

We're seeing footage there of you running there, what was going through your mind. When did you realize what had happened and what was your first fear?

BOB CASEY, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: Well Piers, when we're walking outside which usually when I leave that Thursday lunch, we -- I usually walk underground, this just happened to be outside but the first thought that I had, the initial thought when I heard all the sirens and the law enforcement, I thought it was a dignitary being escorted then as I got closer to that corner, I knew there was more urgency to it and then I heard about three or four pops of gunfire, of course then, we knew it was very serious.

We started to walk back. Two other Senators, Sherrod Brown and Jeff Merkley and I walking back and then the Capitol Police told us to get down, to get down behind the car, get down behind anything, so then I thought, well this must be some kind of an attack, we have no idea what the facts were at that point but it was, I think everyone -- anywhere near that, I was about a block and a half away. I had great concern that it was some kind of an attack and maybe even a terrorist attack.

MORGAN: A very frightening experience for everyone involved. I will come back to you. If I may, Senator, about ...

CASEY: Sure.

MORGAN: ... the politics that's being going on which is being very lively as well today. But for now, according to Deborah Feyerick, who has new details on the driver who's killed in the chase, Deborah is outside of the woman's family home in Brooklyn, New York which she has new information.

Deborah, to you.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, Piers, we can tell you that according to neighbors who spoke to one of our CNN team members here.

Apparently, the woman was at this building picking up here child on Tuesday. Apparently, the mother who lives here with a younger daughter as well often take care of this child, it's about 18 months old. We can also tell you that the federal agents who came here were actually turned away. They -- The people who were inside did not open the door, did not want to speak to them at all.

Now, what you're doing is you're looking at the chase there that took place. The woman who tried to sort of move -- maneuver her car and was when she backed in to one of the police cruisers that the police began jumping out of the way and then opening fire, that's an area, Piers, where because it is so high valued that any threat to that area, police are authorized to use deadly force.

Now, we want to talk about another location. That location is in Stamford Connecticut, that is where the woman was living apparently with the child who she often brought here to Brooklyn to stay with her mother. But we're told there that a robot was sent into the condominium complex where she lives just to take a look around. Neighbors were evacuated from the scene. Again, they wanted to make sure that the area is secured.

Authorities that are being told by law enforcement source did find an envelope which they deemed suspicious. The envelope was addressed to the woman's boyfriend, they'd had his name on it. That envelope now being taken away for testing about bomb squad that's on scene, you got Hazmat teams that are on scene. We've also got federal law enforcement teams who are there waiting to go in, to execute a search warrant. But right now, what they wanted to do it they wanted to take everybody out of that complex to make sure that the area was indeed safe.

The woman in that car chase, once she peeled of, she was driving at high speed, she was running through lights and police acted as if this was an active threat from the White House over to Capitol Hill and they began firing. We're told by a law enforcement source, Piers, that in fact no shot were returned from that black vehicle that the woman was driving that all of the bullets were directed at that car. And when police were firing, they didn't even realize that the 18- month-old child was in that car with her mother. And it wasn't until the car came to a stop and the so called threat was neutralized that they realize that child was there, miraculously she was not hurt, she was taken to a local hospital and there she was checked out.

This is a woman who has got four sisters and authorities right now operating under the assumption that perhaps she had some sort of mental stress, even possibly postpartum depression. Piers.

MORGAN: Deborah, it's a fascinating story and the motivation for what her do that obviously led to her tragic death and we'll have to just wait and see how that plays out. But for now, Deborah, thank you very much indeed. The Capitol Hill is at lockdown because of the chase (inaudible) lifted on. Dana Bash got a hold on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to talk about the shutdown showdown.

Well, let's just go back to Dana. Tell you me about your latest confrontation with Harry Reid.

BASH: It was a conversation not a confrontation this time, Piers, you'll be happy to know we were actually invited into his office suite. As I've mentioned, that's where we were when this scare took place.

But what we talked about was the fact that things have really gotten personal. Not just partisan but really personal with regard to him, to John Boehner, he questioned his courage, but also with regard to how Harry Reid and others talk about the party on the other side and especially their key constituency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You have in you some pretty explosive terms to talk about the so called Tea Party, you called them Tea Party anarchist, you called them wacky, you called them the weird caucus. I even talked to some liberals who are big supporters of yours who say, "You know what, that's going too far." Are you sort of stirring the pot with a language like that?

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV) HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: OK, anarchist? Why in the world wouldn't I use the term anarchy? That's what they are. They are anarchist. They don't believe in government at any level. That's why we have members of Congress over there today and yesterday saying, "Finally, we are able to close the government."

What else did I call them?

BASH: The weird caucus.

REID: Oh, well that's fairly little (ph) over the Hill.

BASH: So I mean do you think -- are you pledging to tone down the rhetoric a little bit and maybe that could help?

REID: I'm not going to give up on the anarchist. I mean, there are people writing columns about this, about -- because that's what it is, they don't believe in government that's why they want the government closed. This is not Peter Pat Beeps (ph) to see how nice you can be to everybody. You have to explain what you're trying to say. And there's no better description I can make than saying they don't believe in government, they're anarchist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, Piers, it doesn't sound like he's going to tone down the rhetoric that much. But with regard to actual discussions, you can sort of see there and you've heard all day the main reason why there isn't a lot of trust there. There really is just, frankly a lack of respect with regard to the discourse that is borne out of some really hard feelings that have gone on behind closed doors.

And last night, just the fact that they had a meeting at the White House at with absolutely nothing, no progress at all, gives you an indication that this sounds like it might last a while. People keep asking, when is this going to end? Nobody knows.

MORGAN: I saw Warren Buffet early today saying that he believe that it would probably run on to the debt ceiling which is still two weeks away and that that would be the extreme point of stupidity, I think was the phrase something like that. And at that point, they would finally not go over the catastrophic cliff of default.

Is that the kind of feeling you're picking up? Are the Republicans now if they -- well if we can keep it going 'till then we can do some kind of grand recovery plan which can get us off the wrap here?

BASH: You know, the Speaker and his leaders aren't talking about ObamaCare and getting rid of ObamaCare as far as negotiating is going in public. But in private just down the hall, the Speaker had a meeting with some of his closest kitchen cabinet if you will and I'm told that in that meeting today, they discussed exactly that, the debt ceiling, what they can try to ask for with regard to economic issues, entitlement reform things like that. So they are at least privately trying to move forward which does mean this shutdown could last a while.

MORGAN: Dana, for now, thank you very much indeed. We'll go back now to Senator Casey. Senator Casey, you heard all that and honestly we're all watching. I think with a vague sense of real depression it's like, "Come on, let's get this done."

How do you feel as a Democratic Senator, do you feel powerless at the moment?

CASEY: Well, Piers, I think right now, there are two basic facts I think that are operative here. One is that the Speaker could put the bill that we passed last Friday on the floor to -- it's an amendment really, it's six of us, a little more than 15 and a half pages long. They could put that on the floor. He could vote against it, a lot of Republicans can vote against it but he would get all the Democrats voting for it. And an increasing number of Republicans, several in Pennsylvania who said, "Let's pass a clean bill and get this over with and open the government up."

Now, once you open them the government, you know, that taken cared of then we can begin to go back. And I would argue this is going to back to negotiation because the original negotiation was we accepted a $70 billion lower number and by doing that, Speaker Boehner had promised as Dana Bash reported to pass a clean resolution that was months ago. But when he couldn't pass it then he went in a different direction.

So I think we can continue to work together on a better budget, a longer term budget. But if this passed, they could do it tomorrow and this would be over, we would have a budget in place to mid November, we could get through this debt ceiling crisis and then have a big debate even from a lot of arguments about what should be in a longer term budget. But we should do that in November at the appropriate time.

MORGAN: Tell me this, so it's not helpful is it? If someone like Harry Reid, such a high ranking person in all this, uses his phrase like they're a bunch of anarchist, they're weirdoes and so on. It's exactly the kind of poisonous rhetoric that is just designed to get their backs off. It's not designed, I don't think, to bring people to a negotiating table.

CASEY: Well, there's always a lot of back and forth that we -- if we roll the table of some of the things the other side says about our side or about the President which is even worse than to hear and even for Washington is bad. But, look I think most Americans can see through that. They know that there are two facts, there's a bill on the floor that could be passed tomorrow, not tonight but tomorrow when they come back and this end -- that would end the crisis.

And secondly, we've got to make sure, as Speaker Boehner said today, not to go anywhere near defaulting our obligations. It would be the first time since 1789, we'd have a depression or recession for sure and I think we can get agreement on that. We get passage to a crisis then I think we can move forward and end the year on a positive note.

MORGAN: Senator Casey, thank you very much indeed for joining me.

CASEY: Thanks, Piers.

MORGAN: Now, let's see from Republican James Lankford from Oklahoma, he's also the Chairman of the House of Republican Policy Committee. Welcome back to you. Let me just -- some of the audience lend the question here. And I want to go to Ramiro Funez who has a question for you.

RAMIRO FUNEZ: Hi, hello. Do you believe that growing frustration with the both of Democratic and Republican Parties will bring more attention to third party candidates in the next Presidential election?

REP. JAMES LANKFORD (R), OKLAHOMA: You know what? That's the great unknown. A lot of third party candidates have tried to jump in over the past several years, famously Ross Perot and others they try to jump in. Sometimes they made a -- they've been a difference maker for the Republicans or Democrats, but they're not actually one. There's not others than a few Independents that are even in the House and the Senate may end up caucusing either Republican or Democrats.

I think there is a continual push to redefine the parties and the best thing that a lot of folks can do that are disgruntled is jump into one or the other either a Republican or Democrat and try to make a difference there.

MORGAN: Did you still feel comfortable though about the amount of slack the Republicans are getting and particularly the fact that the slack is because people see you as a divided party. They seem to speak as being unable to contain these renegade Tea Parties and the whole thing that's bit of a shambles.

LANKFORD: You know, what's really interesting about that, Piers, I do hear that a lot around here to say, "Look at those Republicans aren't they divided?" But when you actually look at the vote counts that have happened this week, there are 20 or 30 Democrats that are voting with us very often through a lot of the votes even this week and no one's actually looking at the Democrat Party saying, "Gosh. They're so divided. They've got 20 or 30 members. They are voting with the Republicans." It's all in your perspective and I get a good chance to look at it.

Now, do all Republicans think a like? No. They don't. We're pretty big Tea Party. We have disagreements within our party as well, but we have a lot of common principles that we're trying to function around, Democrats the same way. Not all Democrats think alike. There's a lot of divisions there as well but they have to get a chance to pull together on some of the ...

MORGAN: Who's being in-charge? Is it Speaker Boehner or Ted Cruz?

LANKFORD: Well, I couldn't tell you where it is in the Senate side of things. Obviously, I'm not in the same, but I can tell you the Speaker's in-charge of the House. Decisions don't move forward and try to build coalitions unless the Speaker's leading us. So, the Speaker is in the lead. And I hear a lot of people push back and say, "Gosh, there's push and pull that he would normally go this way where there's a faction in the conference that's taking in that way. That doesn't happen unless there's a majority."

Quick story three years ago when I came to the House, the Speaker made comments to us at the very beginning to say, "Previous Speakers of the House had run things in a real tight circle and a very few people had inputs." He wanted to open the House up and let the House be the House. The House is supposed to be boisterous. It is the area closest to the people. And so, it's a boisterous place and it is definitely become that. It's all these different voices have to work together to find a coalition.

MORGAN: Well, I hope they work a little harder than they're doing right now. Congressman, thank you very much indeed for joining me.

LANKFORD: And, Piers, thank you. And thanks for your great coverage tonight and very compassionate coverage of the shooting that happened at Hill. That's a very tragic scene and I appreciate the way that you covered it tonight.

MORGAN: Well, appreciate that. Thank you very much indeed.

LANKSFORD: Thanks.

MORGAN: Coming next, putting a face on the shutdown showdown. Hear the stories from the people paying the price like a merchant that's struggling to put food on the table and the cancer patient worrying with the delay in ObamaCare will mean to him. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: 800,000 federal workers are furloughed because of the shutdown. It's a big number. That's important to put (ph) a face to the suffering. Tom Penders is an employee at military base. He's also the sole provider of this family of four. And he joins me now.

Welcome to you, Mr. Penders. Now, to put your story to context, you're a civilian employee at a military base, you're sole provider your family of four, one of your daughter, you have two daughters, she's blind, she has autism, and epilepsy, and you live effectively paycheck to paycheck and you're already behind. You took to take some time off to get your daughter a service dog.

Now you put all these together and it makes a miserable picture, for you, your daughter, and your whole family. How are you coping with what is happening now. What is your biggest fear going forward?

TOM PENDERS, FURLOUGHED EMPLOYEE: Well, my greatest fear is getting further and further into debt and not being able to climb out and also not being able to pay the bills, put food on the table, pay for the medications my daughter needs. Yeah, things like that.

MORGAAN: Normally, in these situations, you will eventually get the money back that you're not being paid now, but in the harsh reality of day to day life? Does that help you that knowledge or if this goes on for few weeks, does the pain you suffer in that short- term period just be really very difficult to handle?

PENDERS: It's going to be difficult to handle. There's no questioning that. You know, telling me they're going to pay me down the road doesn't help me today when I have to pay the power bill. I have to pay the water bill, you know. And I have to pay insurance. I have to go to the pharmacy and buy medications from my daughter. Well, how am I supposed to pay for it when I have no money today or when I get paid on my next pay day? You know, promising me something down the road doesn't help me today.

MORGAN: What do you think Mr. Penders of the way the politicians are behaving over this in Washington?

PENDERS: I think they're behaving like a bunch of spoiled children, like a bunch of five-year-olds throwing temper tantrums especially the Republicans. Yes. They need to get over it. The Affordable Care Act is law. It was upheld by the Supreme Court. It's law. It went into effect October 1st. And the Republicans just need to deal with it, stop that point shoulder and get us back to work. I feel like I'm being held a hostage by the Republicans.

MORGAN: Tom Penders, thank you very much indeed for joining me and I wish you all the very best. You're dealing also a very difficult situation to you and your family. Thank you very much.

Who is to blame to the shutdown showdown and when will it end? Well, here with me now, Star Jones, the National Spokesperson with the National Association of Professional Women, and distributor of a new line of clothing in PVC it's called "Status by Star Jones" can't think of a better person to be parading around in nice clothes. And so, Michael Barone, the senior political analyst for the Washington Examiner and author of "Shaping our Nation: How Surges of Migration Transformed America and its Politics". And also joining us is Josh Barro, the politics editor of Business Insider.

So welcome to you all. Well, Star, it's beautiful to having you back to really talk in general terms about what is going on. What is your view? You hear that guy. It's a classic story isn't where people say all these furlough has don't really hurt people. They damn well hurt people like hell.

STAR JONES, NATIONAL SPOKES PERSON of NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PROFESSIONAL WOMEN: They hurt people all over this country. Let me just put it in perspective. Do you know how hard it is for people to save money on a regular basis? Most people, not only do they live paycheck to paycheck. Most people are one paycheck away from homelessness, one paycheck away from not being able to keep the lights on in your home, not being able to pay a phone bill.

This gentleman just expressed to you just very passionately what the impact of not getting his pay for just one pay period is. He doesn't get to go to the CBS and get the medicine that his daughter desperately needs. He doesn't get to buy the food, the dog food for the seeing eye (ph) dog who's there to help his daughter. These are real problem, Piers ...

MORGAN: Michael ...

JONES: ... that they own in people's home.

MORGAN: I could see you wanted to jump in. You're not happy what you're hearing, why?

MICHAEL BARONE, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: No. I'm not. I'm happy with what I'm hearing but I think in some ways, this problem was caused by James Madison and 39 other men. I'm sorry there were no women then that signed the constitution in 1787.

They set up separate branches of government, the executive branch and the legislative branch. And that creates something in the nature of a constitutional duty to consultation. We had Speaker John Boehner announced some time ago that he wasn't going to negotiate with the President because he felt the President wasn't a serious negotiator in those negotiations they had in August 2011.

Now we hear the President saying, "I'm not going to negotiate. They either take my position or not." And the President has not been one that for reasons of personal character like smooching with politicians which is helpful, if it comes time to negotiate.

So it's ...

MORGAN: You see that's the thing that I keep coming back to. Bill Clinton last week told me in a fascinating interview, how you deal with opponents? You got to get in the room with him.

BARONE: Yup.

MORGAN: And when he went to the shutdown in mid '90s two in a month as it turned out, he and Gingrich eventually got in a room and they thrash on agreement.

BARONE: Not just eventually. They spent a lot of time together and ...

MORGAN: Spoke everyday.

BARONE: ... well (inaudible) Newt Gingrich talking to Newt Gingrich about that time, one of the things he said to me, he said, "One thing you have to understand about Bill Clinton, he never stops learning. And he learned in those conversations"

MORGAN: And never stop talking.

BARONE: And if this is ...

MORGAN: Not in a good way. I mean he said to me they would speak every single day, even when to the outside world they were at war.

BARONE: They were at war and I think the other cause of this is that in effect that's related to my book "Shaping The Nation" which is about migrations internal and immigrant back from the Scotch, Irish to the present day. The demographics of the country, why did we elect a Democratic president, a Republican House of Representatives?

The Republicans have minor -- marginal advantage at redistricting, but it's basically demographics. The Democratic vote is clustered. The heavily Democratic groups blacks, Hispanics, gentry, liberals concentrated in many central cities. They dominate the electoral college by that because they make a lot of states safely democratic. And President Obama with 51 percent of the vote got 332 electoral's a big majority. George Bush with the same percentage and (inaudible) just got 286.

Equal population districts work for the Republicans because the Democrats are clustered in relatively few districts. The Republicans that were evenly spread around ...

MORGAN: And what is the combined impact?

BARONE: So President Obama didn't carry most congressional districts. He carried 209, Romney carried 226.

MORGAN: So what is the ...

JONES: They carry the ones that weren't important and not to make him the President of the United States.

BARONE: He got the vocabulary.

JONES: Yeah. So in some point everybody gave the score to like get over the fact the man has been elected twice.

BORNE: But I'm letting out that people on both sides that principle, non-crazy reasons for taking the positions ...

MORGAN: They do. Remember when Barack Obama that we elected it was John Boehner who said ObamaCare is now the law of the land, we just lost the election. We've got to deal with it.

Now it's a very different story from him and that's why we've got a problem with the way he's conducting himself.

Josh Barro, you heard that it's a fascinating assessment there that the waddle (ph) breaks down. But what is your impression of the impact that's having right now?

JOSH BARRO, POLITICS EDITOR, BUSINESS INSIDER: Yeah, well I mean that's fine as an explanation for why we have a Republican House and a Democratic President but it's an excuse for why republicans have decided that they're going to hold hostage the normal operation of government in order to have negotiations.

I think the Pesident's line about this has been basically correct, where he says, "I'm happy to negotiate the budget. I want to have a discussion about long-term fiscal reform, but first reopen the government and raise the debt ceilings. So we're not doing this in a hostage situation."

Now I think Michael is right that the President hasn't been very good in those sort of negotiations in the past then I think both Republicans and Democrats in Congress express frustration with his ability to smooch with Congress and advocate for his agenda on Capitol Hill.

But in this specific case he's right, that, you know, the kind of negotiation Republicans are trying to ask for right now it's not productive and the reasons they're asking for it is because they feel the only way they can impose their agenda is by getting it through this kind of hostage situation.

So right now ...

MORGAN: I want to just go to a member of the audience and sadly (ph) in different order actually not look question I was going to get, I want to go to Michael Plais (ph). Where is Michael? Michael, thank you.

Can we get Michael a microphone -- he's got one. And, you know, the question I think is actually very relevant involving America's reputation to the outside world (inaudible). Michael, over to you, you're an NYU graduate student in political science.

MICHAEL PLAIS (ph): Yeah, basically we're talking a lot about what's going domestically but I want to know what message are we sending to countries around the world. And especially those that are major creditors the United States.

MORGAN: Yeah, I mean Star Jones if you're in China and you already own, you know, maybe a third of America's debt you're rubbing your hands in glee I think governmental shutdown the economy that was beginning to recover is now stalling and may well suffer irreparable damage if they default on the debt ceiling. You put all this together, this doesn't help America's national interest, they reminded them else (ph).

JONES: You don't want to get signal to your creditors that you don't pay your bills. You also don't want to signal to your creditors that you can't pay your bills because your boss is not paying you. And that's where we are at this point.

We have the -- It's almost like the mother and a father in a family. We're always taught we don't air our dirty laundry outside of the house, but we have aired our dirty laundry all outside of our house, outside of the boarders of the United States of America.

We've conveyed to the world that we can't figure out how to get along and it's detrimental to women and children primarily.

MORGAN: Yeah.

JONES: This shutdown really does hurt women and children from the poorest of the poor, to the working women, from the small business administration. I mean it really impact on the people that it could not impact them (inaudible)

MORGAN: Let's take a short break. I want to have more dirty laundry aired after the break. Star Jones is definitely the woman to do that. And coming next (inaudible) ObamaCare is delayed to the uninsured (ph) but with concentration with life by literally hanging in the darkness

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: Day three and nothing but all they're saying gridlock (ph) and victory while all real people suffer. Joining me now is another American with the real stake and (inaudible) in Washington James Brady has a rare form of bone cancer and no insurance, and also with us Dr. Brian Van Tine, James' oncologist from Washington University School of Medicine.

Let me come to you James you're 24 years old. You signed up for ObamaCare and began chemo three weeks ago. What is your concern about what is going on right now?

JAMES BRADY, CANCER PATIENT: Well, I have to say this is a scary situation for me. Right now, I feel like ObamaCare was the shining light of my dark situation, but now with the -- while the congressmen shutting down everything I feel like my life is in a coin flip right now, if ObamaCare pass and I get my life, I get my life gets increase, I have a chance of me surviving gets increased or will it turn to tails. It's all a really scary thought.

MORGAN: You pretty heavily in debt, I think you've about $30,000. So, this really is a critical time to you and your life and you're just one of many people in this kind of position. Let me turn to you talk to Van Tine, we spoke the other night with another one of your patients and they must all be going through a form of this kind of anguish because it's the uncertainty, it's the very last thing that people in this position need.

DR. BRIAN VAN TINE, ONCOLOGIST, WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY: So, the rare (ph) tumor clinic at Washington University in Saint Louis, and the Siteman Cancer Center has a lot of young adults who come to see me and my colleagues with rare cancers that are just people haven't heard about, most of them are called sarcomas and this is tragic, most of this people were in the prime in their life, you know, James here had a business and, you know, his life has been turned upside down, you know, we have a foundation called CJ's Journey that's helping this people here and we do everything we can because I think it's important that I push as fast and as hard and as I can for somebody especially like James who is curable.

MORGAN: Tell me this, I spoke to a very eminent doctor, a very famous eminent doctor in America only yesterday about this who didn't want to speak about this publicly, he didn't want to inspire any kind of party's own reaction, but he said that all the doctors that he knows believe that ObamaCare broadly speaking and there are definite fault lines with the current program but ObamaCare they genuinely welcomed it, they felt that it will be a force for good in America.

Now, you know, what we're hearing all the time with all these debates ObamaCare is horrible, evil, terrible, it must be abandoned. You are a senior oncologist, you are at the sharp end of all this, what is your view?

VAN TINE: I think especially for young Americans this is an amazing opportunity to make sure that we can treat you right, I mean the liaison (ph) therapy that happened because people don't have insurance it leads to morbidity and mortality and it's not right.

And I think this is not a third world country, this is United States of America and we need to stand up and say, "We need to take care of everyone regardless of their age." And make sure that we are taking care of each other.

MORGAN: Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you Dr. Brian Van Tine and also to you James Grady just wishing you all the very, very best with your treatment and here's to speed your recovery hopefully we may solve out this mess and you can have that uncertainty remove from your current struggles.

So, thank you for joining me too.

GRADY: Thank you very much.

VAN TINE: Thank you.

MORGAN: We go now to the member of our audience Kathleen Westerfield and her son Lucas who attends the Head Start Program his a birthday coming up. So, happy birthday Lucas you're not interested of what I'm saying because you have been all night playing your game and it's quite right too. So, let me get to your mom.

Kathleen -- Is it great Kathleen (inaudible) we'll be enjoying his company all evening. Tell me what you are going through right now, what your particular concern is?

KATHLEEN WESTERFIELD, SON ATTENDS HEADSTART, PUT ON FURLOUGH: As of tomorrow actually the Head Start Program in Florida will be shutdown. The Head Start Program, just to give you a little bit information, the Head Start Program is a -- is a service that is provided to children and parents. They not only service the needs of children as far as providing them with good food. Some of the students aren't even able to -- they -- the only meals that they get are the meals that they get at school, they teach them how to brush their teeth, they make sure their dental is taking care off. They go above and beyond the call of duty to provide a safe place for these children.

MORGAN: And they shuts down tomorrow.

WESTERFIELD: And they shuts down tomorrow.

MORGAN: OK.

WESTERFIELD: And also I just want to say that they also provide for mothers they have -- they make sure that the parents get goals and they help to set them up for success.

MORGAN: So, that's ...

WESTERFIELD: So, there's a lot going, you know.

MORGAN: So, Star, you see, when you hear this it just makes me so bloody angry, right?

JONES: Right.

MORGAN: Because you're like how can you allow this to happen in America? JONES: In America.

MORGAN: America, this is the land of opportunity your shutting down program like this because politicians just squabbling.

JONES: And what we -- women can get to and I don't know what Kathleen is a working mom also but in addition to completely shutting down the kids, their nutrition, that she pointed out the learning that they're getting it also throws the monkey wrench in working mom's lives.

This is where she takes Lucas every single day. So, if she has to takeoff work and rearrange her schedule, if she does not -- if she does not have a guaranteed salary then that's going to impact on her ability to feed her family.

MORGAN: Look if you're ...

JONES: It is a huge snowball.

MORGAN: Michael you're shaking your head?

BARONE: Well, I think, I think -- I don't ...

MORGAN: Don't give your answer now. Let's have a short break.

BARONE: OK.

MORGAN: And we just fulminate.

BARONE: I'm not going to fulminate. I'm not (inaudible)

MORGAN: ... a way to work yourself into a fearful rage and we'll come back in three minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: Welcome back to our live time special on shutdown showdown. So, gentleman Michael Barone, you know, we can roll out endless stories of woe, of mystery, a cancer patients, and parents like this and it breaks your heart listening to them. What is the practical reality and how we get out of this particular situation?

BARONE: Well, I think objectively we use of the terms bickering and squabbling and I think both sides are taking principal position ...

MORGAN: Oh come on (inaudible)

BARONE: ... Based on ...

MORGAN: Sorry...

BARONE: (inaudible) actually serious sort of. Well...

MORGAN: When you hear Harry Reid call them anarchists? BARONE: Yes, that was not ...

MORGAN: That's not caucus ...

BARONE: That's not as -- That's not a serious ...

MORGAN: It's not the language of civilized people in Washington, it's not the language of proper ...

BARONE: What I would say is that on both sides, on both sides I think they've made some miscalculations, I think the House ...

MORGAN: You think?

BARONE: ...t he House...

MORGAN: ObamaCare is a law.

BARONE: The laws -- Laws can always be change the point is ...

MORGAN: You shutdown a government because you want to change parts of an established law?

BARONE: Well, I think the Republicans made a miscalculation by raising the issue of defunding ObamaCare, it polled poorly voters truly didn't want it, delay ObamaCare polls better I think that probably would have been a foolish thing for them to go on a ...

MORGAN: Do you think what's going on to good principle politics?

BARONE: I think it's miscalculation by people who are principal politicians and I think ...

MORGAN: Josh Barro ...

MORGAN: ... the President on his part seems to think and Harry Reid seems to think that the Democrats are going to get great advantage. I think they're overestimating that. I think though some of the damage but it's ...

MORGAN: Josh Barro, it's not about bickering. It's not about, you know, as I see it playground politics. This is about principle people, you know, who may have made a few miscalculations. Your reaction.

BARRO: It's a principle position but they're using a hostage negotiation to pursue the principle position. The proper venue ...

MORGAN: Hang on, hang on. Let me just stop you there. Because ...

BARRO: Yeah.

MORGAN: ... I don't think it is principle to shut down the American government over the established law like ObamaCare. It's not principle. BARRO: The principle is that they don't like the law. I'm not saying that it's a good principle or a good strategy for pursuing the principle but they do have an endgame here. They want ObamaCare repealed. The problem is they all -- all the Republicans know they're not going to repeal that ...

MORGAN: That's not the endgame. The end game is they want to get at Barack Obama, right? And by the way, it's not just the Republicans who is guilty of this. There'd been 17 shutdowns in America each one of them to me is a complete disgrace. The idea that this great superpower simply repeatedly shuts down its government although, I think its petty squabbling, it's pretty shameful.

BARRO: There been lots of shutdowns and most of them have been quite different from this one. For example, we had shutdowns over and over again in the Reagan Administration but they were almost off three days, two days, one day. And when you do that it doesn't matter that much. Like for example, right now, federal workers who are going without pay, they're actually not due to receive a paycheck until October 11th.

So we fixed this before October 11, and then we agree as we haven't pass shutdowns to pay them for the days they were suppose to work. It will be all kind of OK. Now, there's still the disruption where people don't know whether they're going to get paid.

The problem here is that the shutdown is likely to go on for a couple more weeks. And be really disruptive to the US economy. You also have other programs like the WIC Program which helps indigent women get baby formula. That's run in individual states and they have a little bit of money to extend that program for a couple of weeks.

MORGAN: Yes.

BARRO: But as it goes on we're going to get ...

MORGAN: OK.

BARRO: ... more and more people actually losing those benefits.

MORGAN: All right. Mr. Barro ...

BARRO: So this is different in more irresponsible.

MORGAN: Yes. Josh Barro, Michael Barone, and Star Jones, hank you all very much indeed. I'm sure we'll keep talking about this tonight, though.

We're tracking tropical storm Karen forming in the Gulf of Mexico's of the storm is expected to hit the US coast on Saturday and possibly make landfall as a hurricane. CNN Severe Weather expert Chad Myers (inaudible).

Chad even this is being affected by the shutdown in terms of the ability to track it. Explain to me why. CHAD MYERS, SEVERE WEATHER EXPERT: Well, because a lot of the people that were working for the Hurricane Center either they're government contractor, whatever, actually got put on furlough. And now they're getting callback because this is a big deal. And I even I talked to Dennis (ph), he is one of my guys, he's my PR guy that works at the Hurricane Center, he was put off on Monday, he was brought back today. So were all kind of back in business. They knew that this was going to happen. They prepared for it.

Let me talked about Karen for a moment because it could be more than a cat 1. Right now we're going for 75 miles per hour but the newest computer models are saying 90. 90 in the water right here somewhere south of either New Orleans or maybe all the way to Panama Sea.

A 90-mile-per-hour storm isn't going to like just knock down everything. But the problem, Piers, this area is a swamp right now. It has rained all summer long right here. And there will be a million trees that will fall down if the wind is 75 miles per hour right there. That's going to pay just power out everywhere across the southeast. So maybe not a major hurricane cat 2, cat 2, cat 3, but I'll tell you what, it's going to be a lot of damage just with the wind.

MORGAN: Chad, thanks very much indeed. Coming next, a preview (inaudible) interview with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. That's next.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

MORGAN: And we're on. When you've making interview with Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli Prime Minister talked to Putin. The shutdown showdown and this surprising comment on Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: If President Rouhani pick the telephone up and called you, would you take that call?

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, we're not the first to call and it's the question I'll tell you what I'll tell him.

You want the sanctions lifted, stop your nuclear program. Why do you need underground bunkers? Why do you need ICBMs, the sole purpose of ICBMs, Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles is to carry nuclear payloads.

By the way, not to Israel, to Europe and to the United States.

MORGAN: If you get absolute concrete evidence ...

NETANYAHU: Nuclear weapons capability.

MORGAN: Right. If you get it the evidence to your satisfaction incontrovertibly that they have got that capability is that your red line. And would you hesitate to take military action? NETANYAHU: No, I wouldn't. I have to turn it all in that eventuality but I hope it will not come to that because we prefer a peaceful solution.

MORGAN: We're in New York right now. The government in America has shutdown. I don't think you've ever had to put off with this particular eventuality itself. But what do you think of what is going on now. How does it impact Israel? Are you concerned if it goes on to long when it starts to really ...

NETANYAHU: No, I ...

MORGAN: ... damage the global economy?

NETANYAHU: Yes, they'll work it out. You know, they'll work it out, been there down that but I'll tell you, you say we weren't there before, we actually worked. So, some of us introduced to change in Israeli system, which by the way, I think is not as good a political system as the one in the United States.

I think, with all its flaws, the American political system has a lot right important. It's probably the best political system in the world. But we improved on one thing.

See, in our case, if you don't get a budget by December 31st, an automatic budget goes in, 1/12 of last year's budge each month. And if you still don't get a budget six months later, we all go to elections.

You know, what Piers? We always get budget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: And that's frankly was a fantastic idea. Wouldn't we be great to see that how thing it works. They wouldn't let concentrate a few miles. It's a fascinating interview with the Israeli Prime Minister, including the remarkable story of his very first meeting with the man who turned out to be the future President Barack Obama. It's in a tiny little cubby hole and to at an airport in Washington. That's all tomorrow night.

Anyway, I recommend that viewing to a very lively encounter with one of most powerful man in the world.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL)

MORGAN: That's all for us tonight. I want to thank my studio audience and all my guests for very lively evening tomorrow night as we sit there, my exclusive interview with Israeli President Benjamin Netanyahu. It's a very, very interesting conversation.

AC 360 LATER starts right now.