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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Another Day, Another Fail In Washington; President Obama: "Nobody's Winning"; Senate Republicans Slam Senator Ted Cruz; Miriam Carey's Mental Condition
Aired October 4, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT on this Friday night, Washington gives up. Absolutely nothing worthwhile seems to be going on in our nation's capital. There were theatrics in Washington today, certainly, name calling, but no progress towards ending a now four-day old government shutdown.
Dana Bash is on Capitol Hill tonight. Jim Acosta is at the White House. Dana, I guess, let me start with you. The only real question out there at this point, name calling, sure, name calling galore. But is there any end in sight to this?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, unfortunately, there really does not look like there is an end in sight at least any time soon. This government shutdown could last a while.
BASH (voice-over): John Boehner came to cameras with a company of the "Wall Street Journal" quoting an anonymous administration official to make a dramatic point.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: He said we don't care how long this lasts because we're winning. This isn't some damn game.
BASH: The theatrics and language were vintage Boehner. Remember this --
BOEHNER: We should not have to move a third bill before the Senate gets off their ass and begins to do something.
BASH: And this during 2009 health care debate.
BOEHNER: No, we don't have time to do that.
BASH: A Democratic group released its own made for TV moment literally. This ad is comparing Boehner to a cry baby demanding his way or nothing.
ANNOUNCER: Speaker Boehner did not get his way on shutting health care reform. BASH: The problem for Republicans, it is no longer clear what they're demanding from Democrats to reopen the government. When asked that question, Boehner said this.
BOEHNER: We sent four bills to the United States Senate, four different positions, trying to soften our position to get the Senate interested and keeping the government open and bringing fairness to the American people under Obamacare.
BASH: Still, Republicans are right that Democrats won't negotiate.
(on camera): He needs something. He needs a life line in order to save face, in order to agree. You're not giving him one --
SENATOR HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: How about my life line? We agreed to $988 billion. My caucus voted for and agreed to. Don't talk about his life line. Talk about mine.
BASH (voice-over): Even as the parties battle for the upper hand in the shutdown blame game, behind the scenes they're bracing for the next fight. In less than two week, October 17th. Congress must raise the debt limit or face default.
BOEHNER: I don't believe we should default on our debt. It is not good for our country.
BASH: CNN is told, privately Boehner told colleagues he is willing to raise debt ceiling with Democratic help and without a majority of Republicans, which he's unwilling to do to reopen the government. But Boehner also told his rank and file Friday, the president must negotiate, give in on something to chip away at the debt.
(on camera): His message was I'm not willing to roll over on the debt ceiling?
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN FLEMING (R), LOUISIANA: Yes, he actually used that term. We're going to continue to use the debt ceiling as a tool, as a leverage to require both sides to come to the table and to negotiate for what's best for America.
BASH: It's really unclear how the debt ceiling issue is going to be resolved, Erin, but it is becoming increasingly likely that the government shutdown won't end until we get closer to that next major congressional deadline, which again is just under two weeks away.
BURNETT: All right, Dana Bash, thank you very much. Of course, as Dana says, they all said that they would never let the government shutdown and now they're saying they won't let the government default. So I don't know. You lied last time. What about this time?
Any way the quote in the "Wall Street Journal" today from a senior administration official getting a lot of attention from all sides, and the quote from the administration was, we are winning. It really doesn't matter to us. Now Dana just gave us Boehner's response. So what is the White House saying about it?
Jim Acosta has the answer to that. I know they are not happy about this quote being out there -- Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, that's right. And Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, jumped on Twitter almost immediately after this started going viral on Twitter to say that basically, quote, "We utterly disavow the idea that the White House doesn't care when this ends and then perhaps showing an appetite to reshape this narrative, Erin, the president did something unusual today. He went for a walk outside the gates of the White House, down Pennsylvania Avenue to a local sandwich shop where he was asked about that winning comment. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There's no winning when families don't have certainty about whether they're going on get paid or not. I've got staff in the White House. There are staff all across the country in rural areas who are working for the Agricultural Department, who were working for Veterans Affairs, who are on their job despite the fact they're not getting paid or have been send home and want to be on their job because they're after their fellow citizens on the whole range of services and as long as they're off the job, nobody is winning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Now as for the meat of the matter, if you'll pardon the sandwich pun, Erin, the president said he is still not going to negotiate over other issues outside of the shutdown, outside until the House Republicans reopen the government, pass a clean continuing resolution, and raise debt ceiling. And I asked the president as he was walking back towards the White House when is all of this going to end. Here's how he answered that one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: How long do you think it will last, Mr. President?
PRESIDENT OBAMA: It could end in about a half-hour if they call a vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: So there you go, very quickly saying that this is really still all on House Speaker John Boehner and Erin, some very interesting news late in the day here at the White House as for the issue that is really at the heart of the shutdown stand-off. That is Obamacare, the Department of Health and Human Services said late today that they are going to be taking down a key portion, a key feature of healthcare.gov during the wee hours of the mornings over the weekend to do some maintenance, to correct some of those glitches that have been experienced by countless people across the country as they try to sign up for insurance through the government's web site.
And a spokeswoman for the Department of Health and Human Services says that that web site will be back online fully up and running on Monday with a significant improvement so that spokeswoman said to the customer experience -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Jim Acosta.
OUTFRONT, the president for Americans for Tax Reform, Grover Norquist, the executor editor of the "Daily Beast," John Avlon and former adviser of President Bill Clinton, Paul Begala. All right, a wonderful trio, you all disagree and yet somehow it isn't so nasty and vile. You don't call each other anarchists, terrorists, whatever that they're saying.
Here's the thing. Everybody is talking about winning. We can make the Charlie Sheen jokes, quoting the "Wall Street Journal" about winning and Rand Paul caught on tape after his interview on this show earlier this week talking to Mitch McConnell saying we're going on win this I think. It seems to feel, I know that you have John Boehner saying this isn't some damn game, his words, but it certainly feels that both sides think it's a game.
JOHN AVLON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Look, they absolutely are thinking in terms of winners and losers and the only real loser here is the American people. But it shows just how much in the bubble in that echo chamber they are. They think they can effectively spin their way out of the situation and then one guy will blink.
They are not paying attention to reality. Now everyone is admitting what we talked about a few days ago that this is tied to the debt ceiling. This will go on and get more serious. Yet there is no serious talks going on behind the scenes. This is a serious problem and it is making as you laughing stock around the world.
BURNETT: It is. People around the world are sort of shocked, I mean, people who admire this country's system of government. You know, Paul, the battle has become personal. You saw that Democratic ad calling Boehner a cry baby and you laugh at I until you realize this actually is United States of America.
Today Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid talked about restoring decorum to the Senate sending the tweet, "Speaker Boehner is a good man who has a tough job. I hope he'll do what he knows is right." Maybe not the tone you want to get someone to do what you want, but certainly better than his tone yesterday. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Some recent stories have even suggested that the speaker is keeping government shutdown because I hurt his feelings. If that's true, I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. John Boehner, his job is not as important as our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: I mean, both sides certainly far from blameless, Paul. OK, it is pathetic in the sandbox. Aren't Democrats making the problem a little bit worse with things like this?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I would say from both sides here. Given how high the stakes are and given how frayed the relationships are, by the way, they don't like each other. OK, Harry Reid, don't like John Boehner. John Boehner didn't like the president. The president didn't like anybody. The fact that they're keeping it between the ditches, this is America, you know, with the first contested presidential election we ever had was between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and they went at it. Adams' people said Jefferson's mother was an Indian squaw and his father, and he said his father was hermaphrodite.
BURNETT: I did not know that.
BEGALA: They said he was the hermaphrodite with not the firmness of a man or gentleness of a woman. So actually John Boehner hasn't said anything about the president that I find offensive. I don't think I haven't heard Harry Reid saying anything. I think they're being just fine.
BURNETT: I have to say when you put it in that sort of relative context, I have to completely agree. What about this fact that this could go on for not just to October 17, the technical deadline for the debt ceiling, but even longer than that because, you know, you could find a little money here and there and extend it for a few days here and there. I mean, they could turn this into something that really goes on a long time.
GROVER NORQUIST, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS FOR TAX REFORM: Well, obviously I hope it won't. One of the concerns is that the administration doesn't open the books so you can see whether October 17th is a real date. The last time we went through this in 2011, the administration was off by about five, six months on this assertion. And every date they will that you they ran out of money was a politically chosen date. Not an economically chosen date.
I hope one of the things that we will insist on in any debt ceiling increase is that from now on, all of the factors in hitting the debt ceiling will be open and transparent for the American people, the American media, for Congress to see. So they don't play these games and pick a phony day that we have to live off of.
That fellow who made the quote saying that the president is winning this game should probably check the Gallup poll today, which has the president's approval falling down to 41, disapproval rising to 52. During the question time of the closing of the government, the president is not doing very well at all. So he may think he's winning, which is why he is overplaying his hand.
BURNETT: Is he spiking the ball a little bit though, John Avlon? Because you know, at first it was, the public was behind him. Republicans are being crazy to make this fight over Obamacare. But as this draws out longer, do you sense a little bit of -- I don't know, I'm not saying the momentum is changing, but do you sense people are getting a little more confused about it?
AVLON: Everybody is losing. There's confusion on Capitol Hill. I mean, let's be real. I mean, nobody comes out of this looking good. Everyone's poll numbers are going to sink. I think the House GOP is going to suffer more, but a bit of reality check here. Paul mentioned how awful things were and occasionally entertaining political fights in our political past. This is different. We've often had divided government. We got things done.
This is different. This is people playing politics with the full faith and credit of the nation, willing to go right up to that cliff and possibly over it to appease their own base. This is something dangerous and different.
BURNETT: Grover, you know, 790 days since this country lost its top credit rating, which of course was the last time we went through this. We have started to see debt react already in terms of interest rates a little bit this week. Now we're not that close to it yet. But do you think that they are willing to default? I know you raised a very fair point that the date may not be a real date, but it seems to me that they were willing to default because they were willing to shut down the government.
NORQUIST: Well, remember, the president opened this entire -- President Obama opened this entire debate a couple months ago saying he would close the government down if he didn't get a tax increase and more money. So he's been very clear that he is willing to close down the government, hit the debt ceiling. He did in August of 2011. Make those threats. He didn't carry them out.
We got $2.5 trillion in spending restraint over a decade because the president agreed to exactly what Boehner had suggested back then, which was very reasonable, so the president's position that he has to have higher taxes and more spending, that's not going anywhere. So I don't quite know what he wants.
BURNETT: A very, very quick final to you, Paul Begala. The Defense Department is now suggesting they could bring back 400,000 people who are furloughed by Monday. That is good for those people and it is important. So, I mean, of course, we're all for that. But it also creates, perhaps, a sense, this shutdown must not have been so important if you can bring back 400,000 people before the government even opens. Is that smart to do that?
BEGALA: National security has to come first and so I will defer to Secretary Hagel and the folks at the Defense Department who are trying to keep it safe. But they may not be getting paid. You know, those capitol police officers who were involved in the deadly skirmish yesterday, not getting paid. I want to go back to the point that Grover makes about transparency.
That's the kind of point that should be coming up in these negotiations. That's a valid point. I'll probably get fired from my position as a Democrat for saying that. That's the kind of thing they should be hashing out. But not what it reportedly Speaker Boehner told his colleagues today that what he wants is, get this, he wants cuts in social security. He wants a tax reform, the Keystone pipeline ending the Medicare payment advisory board and killing the medical device tax.
That's a Christmas wish list. That's silly. That's delusional. That's not the kind of negotiation you can have with the debt limit hanging over you.
BURNETT: OK, well, thanks to all three of you. We appreciate it.
Our second story, OUTFRONT, is the man at the center of this, political hero or villain? It is actually not John Boehner. No, John Boehner is a slave to Texas Senator Ted Cruz who has been driving the force behind the Republican push to tie government funding to derailing Obamacare. He says the Democrats are to blame for shutting down the government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: The reason we have a shutdown right now is because Harry Reid and President Obama want a shutdown and they have refused to compromise at all. And unfortunately, Harry Reid and President Obama believe this shutdown benefits them as a partisan political matter. That's why you're seeing these sorts of cynical decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: As the shutdown goes on, Cruz's Republican colleagues are getting fed up. Minority Leader Mitch McConnell actually joined in the Cruz bashing during a private caucus lunch, but we wanted to know what the people think because that's what's going to drive Ted Cruz is his voters. In his home state of Texas where we went, Republicans are standing by the senator. Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT.
CRUZ: Do you like green eggs and ham? I do not like them Sam I am. I do not like green eggs and ham.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the surface, reading Dr. Seuss on the floor of the United States Senate is Ted Cruz barreled toward pushing for a federal government shutdown, might seem like the climbed of political moment that could haunt a politician.
EVAN SMITH, "THE TEXAS TRIBUNE": He has helped enormously by making Washington uncomfortable and mad. He is crazy like a fox in that respect. People think he is ruining his career crazy. He is helping his career.
LAVANDERA: Cruz has been vilified by Democrats, that's obvious, but scorned by many in his own party.
REPRESENTATIVE PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: We saw what a fraud Ted Cruz was. LAVANDERA: Even John McCain called him a wacko bird. An incredible attention for a senator who has been in office less than a year.
CRUZ: If standing for liberty and standing for the constitution makes you a wacko bird then count me a proud wacko bird.
LAVANDERA: Texas Republican strategists, Matt Mackowiak says the attack strengthened Cruz, but said it is less clear how moderate Republicans in Texas will reaction to Cruz' tactics.
MATT MACKOWIAK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Whenever you get a lot of national attention, I think the people back home generally like that. He's a very unique talent in politics. He is on a little bit of a high wire act with this shutdown and no one knows where this is headed.
LAVANDERA: Ted Cruz catapulted on to the main stage of Texas politics last year after winning the senate seat by beating a well known, well funded Republican. And he is refused to play by the country club rules of Washington politics. But his critics back home, both Republican and Democrat, say the government shutdown tactics could expose Cruz' flaws. And a CNN/ORC poll show Cruz' unfavorable ratings higher than his favorable numbers and just as many voters are unsure of what to make of him.
WILL HAILER, TEXAS DEMOCRATIC PARTY: At the end of the day, people are going to see that Ted Cruz has 15 minutes of fame and all he is, is a stunt man rather than actually trying to move our country forward.
LAVANDERA: Ted Cruz has thrust himself into the spotlight.
MACKOWIAK: Ted Cruz has put his entire reputation, entire career on the line to try to impact Obamacare.
LAVANDERA: The question is will he get burned or burn brighter? For OUTFRONT, Ed Lavandera, Austin, Texas.
BURNETT: All right, I just want to bring John Avlon here because, yes, unfavorable ratings rising but a lot of people in Texas loving it. That's what drives him, right?
AVLON: Absolutely. The base is behind him and look, people in Texas dig some defiance and Ted Cruz is getting a lot of headlines right now. But watch out, the demographics are changing in the state and he is going to get blowback. Not just from the Democrats, but even some Senate right Republican who's will look at stick and say this guy maybe is more of a salesman than a guy who believes in getting something done --
BURNETT: So he could burn out on this you think?
AVLON: He could burn out, but at the moment, he's shining bright and people in Texas are going to rally around him.
BURNETT: He certainly seems to be shining bright down there. Again, that's what matters to him. That's what his voters say. Thanks very much to John Avlon.
Well, OUTFRONT next, new video tonight from the high speed deadly chase at the White House that we showed you yesterday.
Plus, the driver who was killed by a police, new details tonight, about why she rammed the security barrier. What was going on in her head? Major developments and what it may have to do with President Obama.
Then a huge development in the case of the newlywed whose husband fell to his death days after the wedding, a much more serious charge tonight.
And a shootout caught on tape, why would a military veteran get out of a car with his kids inside and suddenly start shooting at police?
BURNETT: Our third story, OUTFRONT on this Friday, new details on the high speed car chase in Washington, D.C., which ended when Miriam Carey, an unarmed 34-year-old mother from Connecticut, was shot to death by police. This dramatic amateur video shows part of the chaos caused by the incident. You see a D.C. police cruiser actually smash into and through a barricade in the chase.
And tonight, we now know that Carey's 1-year-old daughter, who was with her in the car when she was surrounded by armed gunmen and when she was killed, is now staying with a foster family. But just who was Miriam Carey? What motivated her to lead police on this dramatic chase that ended in her death? We have this covered from every angle tonight with a friend who knew her, Dr. Drew. But we begin first with Deb Feyerick OUTFRONT.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Something was bothering Miriam Carey. Something it appears having to do with President Obama. The source says her boyfriend allegedly told police back in December that Carey believed the president was using electronic surveillance to monitor her home and keep her city of Stamford, Connecticut, in lockdown.
On Thursday morning 34-year-old dental hygienist packed a bag of clothing, strapped her 13-month-old daughter into the back seat of their black Infinity, and drove almost 300 miles to Washington, D.C. according to toll records and cell towers. Carey appeared eager to get to the White House, pulling up to a check point, exchanging harsh words and clipping a security officer with her car as she peeled away. She had worked for dentist, Brian Evans, before being let go.
DR. BRIAN EVANS, FORMER CAREY EMPLOYER: We hired her. We thought she was a great employee while she was here. She had an accident, fell and had a head injury. She found out she was pregnant during that time when she was hospitalized.
FEYERICK: In December 2012, Carey's boyfriend called police, worried the couple's 4-month-old daughter was in danger because of what he described as Carey's delusional behavior and postpartum depression. A source says investigators found discharge papers, which list two prescriptions medications to treat depression as well as symptoms of bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.
Carey's sister told CNN Carey suffered a momentary breakdown requiring medication and counseling following her daughter's birth. It appears Carey also left an envelope addressed to her boyfriend. But instead of a letter inside, there was a sugary substance, which was removed by a hazmat team and taken for testing.
FEYERICK: And Miriam Carey's family, Erin, traveled down to Washington, D.C. today. They identified the body. The child is in a foster care home, but efforts are being made to return her to her biological family -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Deb Feyerick, thank you very much. I want to bring in Erin Jackson now who lived next door to Miriam Carey. You were her next door neighbor for four years. When she moved in, you talk to her extensively and you saw her every day. What was she like? When Deb talks about the diagnoses for postpartum psychosis or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, did you see any of that?
ERIN JACKSON, NEIGHBOR OF DRIVER KILLED AFTER D.C. CAR CHASE: There was absolutely no indication that there were any mental health issues with Miriam from my perspective. Like you said I saw her daily. She was a very doting, caring mother for her little girl. Our exchanges were brief, but she was always very pleasant, very personable.
BURNETT: and you did see her with the little girl, sometimes with her boyfriend as well. Obviously you're looking at that from, you never know what's going on in someone's relationship, but what was your impression?
JACKSON: My impression was that she was a young woman who was just starting a family and that she was a hard worker. I would often see her in her scrubs coming to and from work, and that she was just trying to make a living for herself like everyone else.
BURNETT: Now there was one incident earlier this summer that she told about, about her tires being slashed or something.
JACKSON: There was an incident that I observed this summer. I was coming out of my building to go to work and Miriam was there with an officer and she said to me, can you believe this happened? And I said what? And she told me that her tires had been removed from her vehicle and was left on milk crates. And she was upset about it as anyone would be if their tires are missing in the morning, but the only odd thing about it was that hers was the only car in the entire parking lot that had any mischief done to it. BURNETT: Right. So unclear whether that was some other relationship that you don't know about.
JACKSON: She did report it to the police and she was standing there outside. It was earlier this spring with her baby and you know, she just like I said, seemed like a regular person.
BURNETT: A regular young woman as you said, working hard, starting a family.
BURNETT: All right, well, Erin, thank you very much. Erin Jackson, as we said, has lived next door to Miriam Carey for four years.
Our fourth story OUTFRONT is Miriam Carey's mental state. You just heard Erin say she never gave any kind of impression anything was wrong, but you just heard Deb Feyerick reporting, she could have been suffering from postpartum depression and psychosis and had been given medications for schizophrenic and bipolar.
Now this is according to law enforcement sources. There is also what you just heard her former employer saying. She had suffered a blow to the head last year when she was hospitalized for that she found out she was pregnant.
Dr. Drew Pinsky is the host of "Dr. Drew" on HLN. Dr. Drew, I want to get to all of this with you because, you know, as we just talk about the lack of this country's ability to deal with mental health issues, this seems to hit right in the center of it. Miriam Carey's sister, Amy, spoke with Anderson Cooper, said her sister was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis.
Let's start with that first, postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, are those the same thing or very different?
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "DR. DREW" ON HLN: They are very different things though postpartum depression can become psychotic. Let's talk about psychosis is. It is a state where people are delusional. They believe they are somewhere else. They believe that thoughts are being beamed into their head. They believe people are talking to them, perhaps on the media, television, radio. They can hallucinate. They have bad judgment. They're disconnected from reality. They have a disorder of thought.
Depressions can become severe and lead to a psychosis but postpartum psychosis is a terribly dangerous condition. It's thought to be primarily biological. If anybody had a family history or a previous personal history of bipolar disorder, they may be at some added risk. About 50 percent of people who get postpartum psychosis have no history or risk of their own.
So it is something that come on very suddenly and in my experience, having worked in a psychiatric hospital for 20 years, they are some of the wildest, most difficult to treat psychotic patients. And I was reading about it. One of the things that really caught my attention, a sense of bewilderment among these people, when they're in the state, they can't make sense of things. You get a sense of how biological it is.
BURNETT: I mean, how tragic the ending to this story is. Now, I know it is so hard to say. Obviously with the schizophrenia and the bipolar disorders, which we're hearing reports, perhaps also were diagnosed.
PINSKY: No. I think those medications are used for all kinds of psychotic illness, amongst them, depression, bipolar and schizophrenic.
BURNETT: So it might have been one or more than one. Let me ask but the paranoid delusions that her boyfriend had reported that she was experiencing, delusions of hearing the president of the United States. Last December is the last time we understand that it happened. Who knows if it happened since then? When someone goes like a boyfriend and reports that and then nothing happens, is that something they should have been more worried about or is this common that people have these things happen to them in.
PINSKY: No. Psychotic illnesses are common, postpartum psychosis is uncommon. If somebody is disconnected from reality and delusional like that, they need immediate psychiatric attention, mostly when it is a postpartum psychosis. There is a certain incidence with the childcare taking. If you remember Andrea Yates, that is the kind of thing that can happen.
They have terribly impaired judgment and can engage in behaviors that make sense to them, but they can be extremely dangerous and disruptive. So absolutely, and that delusion of hearing, you know, the president speak to them through the television, that as typical paranoid delusion of any of the psychotic illnesses.
BURNETT: And, Dr. Drew, what about -- you know, Erin Jackson was here, her neighbor, saying she seemed a very devoted mother. She never saw anything that would indicate anything else. She's a licensed dental hygienist. She was very attractive.
One of her friends was talking to "The New York Post" and said she was earning $100,000 a year. She drove a really nice car. I mean, her life was really in order. This was a very successful, accomplished person.
BURNETT: Is this the profile of someone you would expect this to happen to?
PINSKY: For the most part, postpartum psychosis is out of the blue. It's not a psychological problem. There may be some added risk of people in stressful lifestyles. There's some added risks if you have an antecedent history of bipolar. There's a definite added risk if you have any previous history of postpartum psychosis yourself.
PINSKY: But this is not a psychological. It's a biological condition, where as you know, when you're pregnant, your body and your brain is flooded with hormones. They are suddenly withdrawn and that crash can lead to these neurobiological processes, amongst which is psychological illness.
BURNETT: All right. Dr. Drew, thank you very much, as we try to piece together the story.
Our fifth story OUTFRONT is whether tops were too quick to shoot. Now, we asked this question last night. Tonight, there are now new details about how police handled the car chase. Of course, the video shows that police surrounded Miriam Carey's car with guns before the high speed part of the chase. You can see them all standing there.
Did they not see the 1-year-old child in the car? And was their use of force justified?
CNN's Brian Todd is OUTFRONT.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An emergency dispatcher delivered an early warning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got news report of shots fired near the Capitol, news --
TODD: But now, some question whether police used enough caution.
MARK O'MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: At that precise moment, if the police did not see an imminent threat to themselves, if she did not turn on them, it looked like she was going for a gun, something to at that point say the threat is ongoing and it is immediate and imminent, then maybe the police should have taken a breath, waited.
TODD: Neither the Capitol Hill Police, Washington Metropolitan Police or the Secret Service would comment on that citing an investigation. As we dissected the car chase drama on video, I ran the question by CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.
(on camera): Why not as Mark O'Mara said, take a breath, assess and it try to avoid shooting her?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Because how do those police officers know she's really stopped? She was stopped once by the barricades at the White House. That didn't stop her. She was stopped theoretically at the beginning of this video on three sides with half a dozen officers pointing guns at her. That didn't stop her.
TODD: Fuentes and other law enforcement experts say there is another reason why police may have felt they had to shoot at the suspect, the fact this played out near two high profile potential targets, the White House and the capitol. (voice-over): Fuentes says at that moment, officers didn't know anything about the driver or what she had in that vehicle.
FUENTES: Does she have explosives in it and pose a greater danger? Is she just looking for a large gathering of people that she can drive up close to them and explode a bomb?
TODD (on camera): Law enforcement experts say the fact that Miriam Carey didn't turn out to have a firearm or a bomb in her vehicle doesn't mean she didn't have a weapon. They say she was driving a 3,000-pound weapon and she had used it twice to strike police officers -- Erin.
BURNETT: Brian, thank you very much.
And we have some breaking news crossing right now. Confirmed tornadoes in Nebraska and Iowa tonight, with witnesses at this moment saying a large tornado has touched down in the town of Wayne, Nebraska. The National Weather Service in Nebraska says a farm house has been destroyed, farm animals running loose on the highway. The vehicles flipped upside down.
And now, apparently, moving north of Sioux City, Iowa.
Chad Myers is at the CNN severe weather center.
And, Chad, these tornadoes I know can come out of nowhere and can wreak such horrific damage. What do you know about the size?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: And these were big, Erin. They may have been to a mile wide at a time and they're still going to be up and down in the sky, out of the sky tonight. This is just the beginning.
We think of fever weather season as spring. That's when the warm air pushes away the cold air. Well, there are severe weather season in the fall when the cold air pushes that warm air back down, and there are the storms, Sioux City, Iowa, just to the north of Sloan, Iowa.
If you see this, if you see a hook or a C almost, we call that a hook echo. That is exactly where the tornado is. One right there, that just went north of Sloan. One there that went near Jefferson and Sioux City, Iowa, and there are more back here toward the Southwest that will develop tonight.
So, just -- you may have just gotten missed, Sioux City. There may be more developing to your southwest and it could develop all the way down to Omaha. There's Omaha, there's Kansas City, and it would be St. Joe, and then back here, this is what I'm talking about. This is cold pushing away the warm. That's snow.
Erin, we've had two to three feet of snow in the black hills of South Dakota, in Wyoming as well, blizzard conditions, I-80 shut down for at least a while today because of zero visibility.
And it is still snowing hard. We'll keep you up-to-date on these tornadoes.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. And, obviously, the scale is incredible.
OUTFRONT to come, a man pulled over by police and responds with direct gunfire and, yes, he had children in the car. We have the entire video of this incident.
And then another person being questioned in the confrontation between the bikers and the SUV incident. What was he doing?
And straight out of a bad movie, killer hornets. But this is a serious problem. We have a special report.
BURNETT: We have new developments in the case of high speed road rage that happened between an SUV and a gang of motorcyclists. Officials tell CNN now that an undercover New York City police officer was actually there when a pack of bikers chased down and beat the SUV driver on Sunday.
Police are still investigating the violent confrontation which was caught on tape, as you can see.
Susan Candiotti has been covering it. She's OUTFRONT with the latest.
And, Susan, I know you have some late breaking details about this undercover officer.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is just amazing news, now to find out that an undercover cop was actually participating in this rally in his off-time, belonged to a bicycle club. That's why he was there.
But the question is, what exactly did he see? My law enforcement sources telling me that this undercover cop saw what was going on, witnessed the SUV rollover the -- rather, the SUV rollover some bikers, and saw that beating assault at the tail end.
But the question is why did not that undercover officer come forward? That's what we're hearing, until Wednesday of this week, three or four days after this happened? Was there a reasonable explanation for that? Or if not, why did he wait so long?
That could be against the law outer could be a violation of NYPD policy certainly. And so, internal affairs is looking into this. Of course, the district attorney's office, naturally part of this investigation, would be taking a look at this.
But that's not the only development we've seen today.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): This biker seen on camera bashing his helmet against the window of an SUV is expected to turn himself in to police, according to a source.
Police say he is suspected of being involved in beating the SUV's driver, Alexian Lien, in front of the Lien's wife and 2-year-old daughter.
The Liens say Alexian could have been killed without the intervention of bystanders. Police have released photos of two of those witnesses and this man says he has spoken with police about trying to stop the vicious attack.
But it is Lien's own actions that are coming under greater scrutiny tonight. Before the assault, Lien, surround by bikers and fearing for his life, his family says, gunned it.
Edwin Mieses was ran over and critically injured. His back broken in two places, ribs fractured, unclear if he'll ever walk again. The family is working with famed attorney Gloria Allred.
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: There was more than one victim this past Sunday.
CANDIOTTI: Allred says Mieses, a father of two, was trying to help Lien and diffuse the situation. Telling fellow bikers to, quote, "move on".
ALLRED: He turned his back to the SUV to start walking back to his own bike. It was then with his back to the SUV, and as he was in front of it, that he was run over and crushed.
CANDIOTTI: Allred says he does not know the people who assaulted Lien and does not condone it. So far, there has been very little sympathy for Mieses. On a Facebook, he's a lightning rod, with comments like, "Don't care what he was doing. He deserved to be run over."
His family says those comments have hurt.
DAYANA MEJIA, EDWIN MIESES'S PARTNER: I love him so much. It tears me up anyone could think that Edwin in any way deserves what happened to him.
CANDIOTTI: Now, at this hour, CNN has learned another biker is being questioned by authorities. We have video of him.
He is seen on another part on camera approaching the SUV after it stopped. And he opens the car door and then SUV takes off again. So, authorities are asking him, why were you going over there to open that car door? What were you up to?
We don't know yet whether he would be charged right now, Erin, he is simply being questioned about this.
BURNETT: This is amazing.
All right. Thank you very much. Susan Candiotti, who's been breaking the news on this.
Well, our seventh story OUTFRONT tonight is invasion of killer hornets because authorities in China have declared all out war on these hornets. These hornets have killed dozens of people.
Paula Newton is in Hong Kong with a look at the lethal menace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin. Can you imagine such a horrifying situation? I mean, these hornets have killed 42 people, injured more than 1,500 since July. And you're talking about stings the size of bullet holes, venom that actually attacks the red blood cells and that can lead to kidney failure, and as we've seen in extreme cases, death.
Now, why is this happening? Of course, the warm climate has been a problem this year. What is really alarming is the fact that it could be, could be the increased urbanization which is occurring throughout China. And, you know, these hornets have been around playgrounds and schools. It has been a terrifying situation for many people there -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Paula, thank you very much. Those hornets last year, seen in Illinois. The question is, will they be seen in greater numbers in the United States?
Still to come: a grand jury coming back with a decision whether to indict a newly wed whose husband was pushed off a cliff days after they were married. We're going to tell you the story.
BURNETT: Oregon state police have just released dash cam video of a deadly traffic stop. An Oregon state trooper pulled John Van Allen (ph) over in his Cadillac for speeding in a construction zone. Look what Allen did, wearing camouflage military fatigues, he jumped out of his car and started shooting. He was struck by a bullet and found dead in his vehicle about a half mile away but also in his car with him were his three children. None of them miraculously harmed.
Now, why the former Army reservist responded in this way, police either do not know or won't tell us at this time. The trooper was also hit with gunfire but he is OK and recovering.
Well, our eighth story OUTFRONT: the newly wed charged. The Montana bride accused of pushing her new husband off the cliff. He died. He's now facing even more serious charges.
Casey Wian is OUTFRONT.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prosecutors originally charged Montana newly Jordan Graham with second degree murder for pushing her husband Cody Johnson off this cliff in Glacier National Park. Now, a grand jury has added a charge of premeditated first-degree murder which carries a minimum sentence of life in prison.
The couple was only married for eight days when they got into a fight on July 7th. Still upset, they decided to take a hike where the fighting continued. Things got physical and Johnson pushed her husband in the back, sending hill face first off the cliff.
Prosecutors say Graham admitted nine days later to pushing Johnson off the cliff in a fit of anger. Her defense attorney says it was an accident and following her arrest last month, Graham was allowed to live here with her parents under home confinement where she remains today.
Levi and Lytaunie Blasdel have known Graham since childhood. Levi introduced the couple. Levi says the bride-to-be was acting strangely before they walked down the aisle.
LEVI BLASDEL, FRIEND OF COUPLE: She was crying hysterically before she even got to the altar. There was no joy that she was about to get married.
WIAN: After her husband's death, the Blasdels say they noticed more strange behavior from the widowed bride.
LYTAUNIE BLASDEL, FRIEND OF COUPLE: Whenever I saw her, she was herself. Nothing happened, no emotion, nothing. It was her same old life.
So we always had that little bit in the back of our mind saying, you know, I think she may be involved.
WIAN (voice-over): Graham also is charged with making false statements to authorities about her husband's death, for allegedly concocting a story about a trip to the park without of town friends. Her attorney admits she has been deceptive to authorities but he calls the murder charges reprehensible.
For OUTFRONT, I'm Casey Wian, in Los Angeles.
BURNETT: All right. Up next, Area 51, secret flights and the shutdown, aliens could be coming.
BURNETT: It's time for the OUTFRONT "Outtake".
So, the government shutdown is serious and yet, some Americans have focused their outrage on some rather strange things like the panda cam. When the national zoo shut down, the panda cam went dark. Panda fans voiced their displeasure asking, what is life without the panda cam, on Twitter.
The zoo has also been forced to disable another dozen cameras focused on animals like sloths and the naked moll rat. Now, look, I am assuring you, you can go awhile without watching the sloth cam. I mean, what are you really going to miss?
There are however some supposedly non-essential things that we think might be very essential, like Area 51.
There are a lot of conspiracy theories going around now but Las Vegas News Now investigative reporter George Knapp tweeted last night that the shutdown is affecting Area 51, that's because shuttle flights for Janet airlines, that is the name for an unmarked fleet of Boeings a government contractor uses right now in 2013 to ferry employees to Area 51 every day. Apparently, those flights were suspended.
So, shocker, the contractor didn't call us back when he tried to confirm, but yes, the bottom line is aliens could take over the planet thanks to the shutdown.
And then there's NASA's asteroid watch. There is no watching during the shutdown. Ed Lu, a former astronaut, told us on this program that we haven't found 99 percent of the big asteroids out there. Lu says we don't even know where the next asteroid that could massively damage or destroyed earth even is right now.
So we might miss the big one because of the shutdown. So, if aliens and asteroid apocalypse is not essential, what is?
We'll be right back.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks so much for joining us. We're going to see you again Monday, same time, same place. In the meantime, hope you have a wonderful weekend is fall is upon us.
"AC360" starts now.