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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Woman Who Charged White House Barricade Mentally Ill?

Aired October 4, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight breaking news. Shocking new information on that Capitol car chase that ended in deadly gunfire. We are now learning the toxic secrets of the woman behind the wheel who was shot dead. Was she in the throes of a total mental breakdown when she charged the White House barricade and does this horror symbolize one of the biggest problems our country is facing?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. It`s time to debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the middle of a government shutdown protest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really don`t understand why the government can`t work together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t recognize the country I fought for anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re not nonessential. We want to work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Honey Boo-Boo of Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then you look at people`s faces, and they`re just -- they`re scared. They`re confused. And they don`t know what`s going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the police sirens to the helicopter flying around. Secret Service, bomb squad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To hit the concrete and don`t move. We could smell the gun powder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were police running everywhere. They came out with assault rifles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... shut down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congress that governs this country. You guys are worsening it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say on the surface 34-year-old Miriam Carey, a dental hygienist from Connecticut with a 1-year-old daughter, was leading a normal life. Her family is completely shocked, they say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see these things happen to people and you wonder, you know, how does this happen, it`s out of the ordinary. Of course they`re shocked. And the family members as well as how this whole thing occurred. Because no one knows the exact circumstances of how this really occurred. That`s a whole other part of this investigation on the family`s side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But tonight her boyfriend says she was having a mental breakdown and acting delusional. That she believed the president of the United States had placed her hometown of Stamford, Connecticut, under lock down and that her house, the apartment seen here, was under electronic surveillance. Is that what caused her to drive from her home in Stamford to Washington, D.C., and charge the gates of power?

Tonight, news that the now dead car suspect, Miriam Carey, might have been suffering from schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and possibly postpartum depression or psychosis, based on medications found inside her apartment.

It`s kind of ironic, isn`t it? Here`s a woman whose mental health was apparently crumbling trying to storm the White House at the very moment the government crippled itself over a fight about health care. Yes, ironic.

Plus those heroic Capitol cops who responded to this terrifying situation, not knowing whether it was a terrorist attack or a rogue individual, risking their lives without a paycheck because of the government shutdown. What`s wrong with that picture? A hell of a lot.

All right. We`ve got a fired-up Lion`s Den debate panel tonight representing a whole bunch of different views ready to go head to head to debate the issues.

Straight out to psychologist Wendy Walsh. The now dead mother of a 1- year-old fast becoming a symbol of America`s mental health crisis. Is this the fault of our health-care system not doing enough or did other factors lead this woman in a downward spiral?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think this are probably lots of factors. I think in our culture, Jane, there are so many single mothers that just do not have the cultural support. There`s no job harder in the world than raising a baby alone.

The boyfriend that speaks out and tried to get help for her -- now remember he didn`t go to mental health. He didn`t go to her family. He was so worried he went to the police saying she`s delusional. So he knew that something criminal could come up with her mental health issues. But yet she`s left alone with a baby. How does that happen?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I would like to ask who or what is ultimately to blame for the chaos that terrorized an already crippled Capitol when this woman, Miriam Carey, led them on this incredibly dramatic car chase. Remember, she had a one-year-old daughter in the back seat. Thank God that child wasn`t hurt. But the mother was shot dead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIRENS)

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So cops say last December her boyfriend feared for his daughter`s safety, because the mom was acting delusional and apparently believed President Obama had her under electronic surveillance.

Cops say Miriam Carey was suffering from postpartum depression and apparently had trouble sleeping. They found two meds to treat schizophrenia and bipolar and an antidepressant. And they even found a letter to a boyfriend that contained some suspicious, mysterious white powder.

So back out to the Lion`s Den. Listen, I`ll go to Andy Dean, nationally syndicated radio host. She`s the mother of a small child, working as a dental hygienist. She couldn`t keep it together. Pills clearly didn`t help her. OK. Maybe she should have talked to a psychiatrist or a counselor about her underlying issues. Maybe her boyfriend should have done more or maybe he was doing everything he could.

But ironically, what`s happening in our health-care system today is that people are getting more and more pills. Push a pill on them: a pill that`s often mood-altering and addictive, and it`s not helping. It`s only making things worse.

ANDY DEAN, RADIO HOST: You`re looking at my reaction there. Well, Jane, I`ll say that we live in a country with over 300 million people. So somebody is going to go psychotic some of the time. Every couple months this happens. I`m just shocked it doesn`t happen more often.

And the fact is she just went Grand Theft Auto with her vehicle and was driving through pylons. We`ve got to be grateful that she didn`t do any more damage.

So as far as mental health, I think, look, we try to do the best we can in this country, but, you know, people slip through the cracks. It`s not good.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, please. There`s no slipping through the cracks here.

Who`s talking?

WALSH: No. It`s Dr. Wendy, Jane.

DEAN: Well, what do you want to do? I mean, five percent of the country suffers from severe mental illness. Do you want to strap everybody, you know, and put them in a strait jacket? I mean, it`s a sad fact, but a lot of people have this problem, but very rarely do we see this type of acting out behavior.

KELI GOFF, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, THEROOT.COM: But do...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Keli Goff.

GOFF: What would actually help us potentially address this problem is the very reason that our government shut down right now, which is Obama care. I mean, you know, for all the things that people complain about and hate about Obama care, there are about two things that you constantly hear people say that poll after poll shows. Which is nondiscrimination against people with preexisting conditions and allowing young adults to stay on their parents` insurance till 26. But there`s about a third thing, Jane, and that is adding parity to those who need mental health treatment. I mean, there are about 62 million Americans.

DEAN: So that was coming with or without -- that`s factually incorrect. That was coming with our without Obama care.

GOFF: No, no, no.

DEAN: Under Diminici (ph) 2008 that passed a law.

GOFF: That`s not true. Because you`re referring to the 2008 federal law...

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa! One at a time. One at a time.

GOFF: ... The federal law has not accomplished what it`s set out to do. It`s helped a lot. But with the federal law you`re referring to from 2008 has actually done, it`s only helped those who are on the really large plans. The difference is with Obama care, if you`re on the individual plan or if you`re on much smaller plans, it also requires those carriers to treat those with mental health illness the same.

DEAN: That`s semi-correct; remember 95 percent of people -- 95 percent of people on small employer plans...

GOFF: I will tweet out the fact to show that you`re wrong.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold it, hold it. Dr. Wendy, Dr. Wendy, jump in here.

WALSH: If you can`t go to your primary care physician and be told that you can only see them ten times a year, you should not be told that you can only see your psychiatrist ten times a year. And when you`re told that by a first provider, that`s when you have questions.

That`s a good point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn`t create more doctors. You`re going to have an access problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy.

WALSH: Yes. OK, Jane I know what you want me to say, because you and I agree with this. Jane, the biggest problem with health care is that we`re doling out pills...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes!

WALSH: ... instead of giving people mental health services. The studies are very clear that talk therapy is as good sometimes, in many cases, as handing somebody a pill and leaving them to go out in the world unregulated with all of the side effects that might show up with the pill. But oh yes, the pharmaceutical companies also own the government. So...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. In the wake of this deadly car chase people are asking does Obama care cover mental health problems. The short answer is yes. You can go to Healthcare.gov, and it says basically yes, mental health and substance abuse, including counseling and psychotherapy covered. That`s great.

But as Wendy mentioned, given the insidious connection between our government and big pharma, could that simply mean more and more mood- altering and often addictive drugs being given when something else is needed.

Now I wrote a book about this called "Addict Nation." And I talked about how Americans are O.D.`ing on legal prescription drugs more than illegal drugs, because some doctors have become legalized drug pushers, giving out highly-addictive, mood-altering antidepressants that just make things worse.

Back out to the Lion`s Den. Under Obama care, are we going to see improved mental health or just a whole bunch of more sedated Americans? And to whit this point, look at the woman in the car chase. She was getting a whole bunch of different pills for mental disorders and look what he did.

And I`ll toss it at the man in the beige jacket, Andy Dean.

DAVE RUBIN, "THE RUBIN REPORT": Jane, I`m totally with you on this, Jane. You know, the thing is, I read your book and I totally buy into it. We are such an overmedicated society.

Didn`t we all sort of feel like that woman driving in circles because we`re listen to this constant debate in this country between Democrat and Republican? And they keep us in this left brain, right brain bipolar disorder and then you have restless leg syndrome because you don`t get up because you`re medicated on something else that keeps you depressed, and you`re up and you`re down. And then all the side effects, you know, you started with...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But that wasn`t my point.

RUBIN: Well, but I think that the overmedication...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My point is that...

RUBIN: We`re going to get -- we`re going to get medication. Of course mental health is going to be a part.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... mental illness is very serious. Mental health is a very serious issue, but the answer isn`t just here, have a pill. Here, have a pill. You know what the answer is? Find out why you`re depressed.

Maybe this woman was overwhelmed. She`s a dental hygienist. She has a little baby. She`s struggling to keep it together. Maybe the bills are mounting. Maybe she`s not getting the support she needs from the extended family. Or what`s the role of the boyfriend? People have problems. A pill ain`t going to solve it.

I am all for improving mental health, but it`s got to go beyond turning us into an addict nation.

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIRENS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my -- what is (EXPLETIVE DELETED) happening? That was supposed to be (UNINTELLIGIBLE). What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)? Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I saw is exactly what is in that video. It was almost terrifying. It was very surreal. You know, what you think is going to be a normal day, a very quiet day with the government shutdown turned out to be, you know, the opposite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: When things went totally out of control in the nation`s capital, it raised a lot more serious questions about the very issues that have shut down our government.

Cops say they had no idea that the suspect`s 1-year-old daughter was in the back seat during the wild chase from the White House to the Capitol. A neighbor who observed the suspect said this woman seemed very normal, like a normal person.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They come and make trips, you know, but I don`t see them every time they come. But I know I seen her one time. She were getting in the car. They were going back to Connecticut, and she seemed normal. Had the baby, laughing. You know, everybody was laughing. They had a good time. So, she just snapped, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her mom was killed but the little girl, 18 months old, miraculously rescued, unhurt, despite a slew of cops and Secret Service firing more than a dozen shots into her mother`s car.

Back out to the Lion`s Den. I`ve got to ask this of Dave Rubin, host of "The Rubin Report." This child was in protective custody, her life forever altered, the government now involved. Wouldn`t it ultimately be cheaper to go all out to get Americans real health care for real mental- health issues before it becomes a crisis than to spend tons of taxpayer dollars cleaning up tragedies and messes like this?

RUBIN: Absolutely. And look, you can`t make this stuff up. This woman obviously had mental problems. She -- you know, she needed help. And now she`s gone. And now her child is going to have to live with that legacy and have all kinds of other problems that are going to stem from this. But I think this is just an example.

If we`re linking this directly to the shutdown and everything going on with government and Obama care, this -- this is just another example of we don`t hear truth. We don`t hear truth. So every day you hear the Republicans say, "Well, we didn`t do the shutdown," and then the Democrats call them terrorists and anarchists, and it`s like we`re never hearing truth. And this makes people genuinely feel nuts, because the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. And if you never hear it out of the media, you don`t feel good inside. So as long as we`re linking these things together, I think there`s some real relevance there.

DEAN: Jane, what does a paranoid schizophrenic -- what does a paranoid schizophrenic who goes berserk have to do with the government shutdown? She is -- she was hearing voices in her head and she tries to drive into the White House. That has nothing to do with the continuing resolution, which is part of serious budgetary differences.

RUBIN: No, no, no, but within the context of how we`re having the conversation, obviously we`re linking mental health with everything going on. So this person, look, we don`t know exactly what caused it.

GOFF: No. We`re talking about the mental health coverage access and this is a health-care reform bill. So there is a connection there. There`s not a connection to...

RUBIN: Precisely.

GOFF: ... terrorists and the government. Because mental health care issue is actually a huge issue in the press right now, and we`re talking about...

DEAN: So let me get this right. We have a paranoid schizophrenic...

GOFF: We`re talking about health care reform...

DEAN: We have a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks that Obama is following her.

GOFF: ... in this country and health care coverage and access...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.

GOFF: ... is a part of the conversation.

DEAN: ... and she`s undermining our health care legislation?

GOFF: No. Health care reform...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.

GOFF: I don`t -- look, I`m speaking English here. I don`t know why it`s complicated. When people have better access to more mental-health resources, it helps them -- it helps make our society better; it helps make our society safer.

DEAN: Who`s on the other side of that argument? Nobody disagrees with that.

GOFF: So there is a conversation. There is a conversation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on one second.

DEAN: Nobody disagrees with that. That`s a straw man.

GOFF: I`m not saying you`re disagreeing with that. I`m simply saying that the bill that has called all of this consternation helps provide more access to mental health services. So it`s a golden opportunity for us to have a conversation about this.

DEAN: What about the tens of millions of people who are going to get reduced hours...

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, yes. Listen. I`m all for that. I`ll all for that. But -- but -- but...

GOFF: I just want to say, too, that what I hope comes out of this, out of this terrible tragedy and loss of life is that mental health illness does not discriminate. It is particularly stigmatized in our community. We don`t like to talk about it. In terms of postpartum depression, which some are saying she might have suffered from -- I wrote about this in my column for The Root -- black women are half as likely as other mothers to even seek help for this.

So as much of a tragedy as this is, I`m hoping it forces us all to have conversations throughout our communities that will hopefully save other lives in the future.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I will say that now there is a new question with Obama care about whether the very poor or going to somehow fall through a loophole, because there are plenty of states where they`re a little bit -- just making a little bit too much money for Medicaid but not enough to get the subsidies. In other words, they`re in some kind of donut hole, some vortex where they can`t take advantage.

These are the very poorest people, who supposedly the entire health- care plan was designed to help, considering that 85 percent of Americans are already insured. It`s the 15 percent. And of that 15 percent uninsured, the very poor were targeted. And now we`re hearing that there`s a problem with that.

Stay right there. More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were police running everywhere. They came out with assault rifles. We were actually in the middle of a government shutdown protest. And it was very scary. They ran us all up to -- to the top of the steps, and they ran us back down. It was scary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIRENS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa.

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chaos and horror in the nation`s capital, and now we`re learning the woman behind the wheel of that car chase that ended with her being shot dead and her 1-year-old child being taken into protective custody appeared to be suffering from some sort of mental breakdown. In her home in Connecticut, authorities found medications for depression, schizophrenia, bipolar.

Her boyfriend said that she had been behaving in a delusional manner and thought the president of the United States was somehow monitoring her electronically and had locked down her hometown. What can we do about the mental health issues in this country?

This woman has tragically become a symbol, as it were, of our mental health crisis.

So let`s go out to the phone lines. Myrtle, Indiana, your question or thought. Myrtle, Indiana.

CALLER: Well, my thoughts are that the president is not working to dissolve the issue at hand and the Congress is not working either. If you go back to the last shutdown, at least the president, he was trying to work everything out. He spent many hours trying to do that. And Obama, he`s only tried to speak to this person one time in ten days.

So I can understand people getting outraged about it, and I can also understand the emotional effects that it would play on people who have issues.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well -- well, Myrtle, thank you for that call. And, you know, psychologist Wendy Walsh, people say, well, you can`t connect this incident to anything else happening with government. We`re not trying to make unfair or irrational or leaps that don`t require it, but I think that there is always an opportunity in a time of national crisis to take a look inward as a nation.

You know, we focus so much on consumption, on gross domestic product, on how much money we make, on how much power and status we have. When are we going to start looking at gross national happiness?

WALSH: Exactly, Jane. You know, it`s estimated that one in three American women in their fertility years are on some kind of psychotropic drug. Do we need to medicate womanhood? Why don`t we have the support that mothers need? That`s my question.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to take a look inward.

DEAN: Gross national happiness? That sounds insane to me. I mean, that`s something that, like, the Soviet Union would discuss.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, please.

DEAN: We talk about gross national product because it`s measurable. We try to advance the economy, and we all rise together. So how do you even measure happiness?

WALSH: You think you can`t measure happiness? You can measure happiness.

DEAN: Some people -- some people are poor and they`re happy. Some people are rich who are very unhappy. No, there`s no -- and I think a little bit if you`re wealthier there`s a correlation between happiness. But I know rich people who are super...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Actually...

DEAN: ... miserable and people who are broke who are super happy. How can you manage for all that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Actually...

DEAN: That`s not the government`s responsibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My point is that wealth does not correlate to happiness.

DEAN: We degree, but to some degree, but not fully.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re so obsessed with getting wealthier and wealthier...

DEAN: I`m not. Who`s obsessed with it?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... we`re so obsessed with getting wealthier and wealthier people are getting more and more depressed.

DEAN: We want to grow the economy for jobs. It`s not about getting - - it`s about growing the economy for jobs so people will have something to do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s about more than just jobs.

DEAN: I feel like I`m going berserk here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s about what kind of jobs are we doing? What are our ethics, what are our values in this culture? Is it just about more, more, more? Should we look inward and try to...

RUBIN: We`re working harder for less.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... see why are so many people depressed?

RUBIN: Yes, and then they take drugs, and that doesn`t do anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, fantastic panel. We`ll be back to debate this more.

Up next, Miley Cyrus in a faceoff with Sinead O`Connor?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILEY CYRUS, SINGER: There`s no way to say like I know 100 percent this is going to be the right step for me. I don`t know. It`s you`ve got to make sure you`re doing the things that are right for you right then. And you know, you may look back when it releases in a year and go, "Oh my God, why did I do that?" But it was right for you then. So you`ve just got to do what`s right for you at that moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miley Cyrus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, her.

BILLY RAY CYRUS, MUSICIAN/MILEY`S FATHER: She`s just Miley. She`s an artist; she`s real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Spears, the former "Mickey Mouse Club" star who launched into the pop culture stratosphere as a teen had a fall from grace in her mid-SC that`s become synonymous with her success.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the criticism over her performance at the VMAs a double standard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Few people have hit the high spots that Britney had, and few people hit the low spots that she`s had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight it`s the war of the superstar songbirds, with Miley Cyrus in a face-off against Sinead O`Connor, all over sex. It all started when Ms. Miley claiming `80s pop star Sinead O`Connor`s "Nothing Compares 2 U" video was the inspiration behind her ultra-raunchy "Wrecking Ball" video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: MILEY CYRUS, "WRECKING BALL")

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Apparently Sinead did not take Miley`s compliment very well. She`s firing back saying Miley doesn`t have to prance around naked or lick a sledgehammer in order to sell records. Sinead even went so far as to scold Miley saying she`s basically acting like a prostitute -- that`s the word she used -- and sending the wrong message to young girls.

Britney Spears seems to be agreeing telling the radio of host of TJ Show on Amp 103.3 she`s tired of all of this hyped up super sexuality and that sometimes she`s pushed further than she wants to go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRITNEY SPEARS, SINGER: We showed way skin and did way more stuff for the video than what`s actually there. Like I cut out half the video because I am a mother and because, you know, I have children and it`s just -- it`s hard for you to play sexy mom while you`re being a pop star as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brit says she`s basically slashed and cut some of the sexiest most over the top sexual portions of her latest video "Work B" and that she actually came out with this as a tamer version. Check it out.

(MUSIC)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is women at war over the war on women. I got to ask you a question. Are essentially superstars, female superstars degrading themselves just to stay on the forefront of the pop culture scene? And I`ll throw it out to Mo Ivory, radio talk show host.

MO IVORY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Jane. Well, sure. I mean when haven`t they done that? It`s a measurement of how much and when and who you are as an artist, how old you are.

Listen, I`m terribly disturbed about Miley Cyrus right now. I think she needs to take a seat. But I do understand why she thinks that this sells because look at the reaction that she`s getting.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because it sells.

IVORY: Because it does sell. It absolutely sells so I understand it. But at some point you have to do what Sinead and what Britney, who I`m so proud of, has done which is say, you know what -- it`s too inappropriate and I`m going to scale back a little bit because I don`t have to be so over the top. And I think Miley could learn a lot from them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, all of this is coming on the heels of Rihanna`s new stripper music video "Pour It Up" from Def Jam Records. You got to check this out because it`s all about strippers and women as objects. Watch.

(MUSIC)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now this video has a lot of people criticizing it and asking why is the world`s most famous victim of domestic violence, namely Rihanna who as we all know was beaten up by her then boyfriend Chris Brown, constantly displaying women as sexual objects in this case a stripper with money being stuffed into her panties?

I`ll tell you why. Because videos like this are eye candy crack. That`s right. It`s a visual stimulant that nothing else can compete with. It sells and that`s why people keep pushing it. So Alexis Tereszcuk, I`m not criticizing Rihanna as a singer, she`s incredibly talented, incredibly beautiful, incredibly everything, incredibly rich but why does she, even she, at the height of all of her powers feel the need to portray women as sex objects who are ultimately strippers who need to gyrate to make a buck?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: Rihanna has always said that she`s a strong woman but she has zero interest in being a role model for anyone. She said that after her assault. She said it repeatedly in interviews. She just wants to entertain and she`s got a great body and she`s going show it off. She doesn`t feel like she has to be the voice for women or somebody that tells people what they should or shouldn`t do. She just likes to show off her sexy body. It sounds a little clipped (ph) but that`s what Rihanna always says.

IVORY: Yes, but unfortunately girls are looking at her as a role model. And that`s the part that`s so unfortunate because you can`t say oh now I want to talk about violence, domestic violence or my boyfriend hitting me and girls listen to me and then do strip clubs and diamond rings got my money.

TERESZCUK: She never said that.

IVORY: No when she did her interview she did say young ladies shouldn`t date men that are abusive. That she grew up in an abusive household. So whether she likes it or not, girls are listening. And so for that reason she does need to be -- this song is so hugely popular. I work on an urban station. I know the words to this song we play it so much. And it`s an anthem that women love it, men love it and they are over sexualized by the lyrics.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But why? But why? Why do they love it?

IVORY: Because it`s sexy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why can`t they, for example --

IVORY: Because it`s sexy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- Beyonce. Beyonce, she seems to find a balance between being very, very sexy --

IVORY: She does.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- but still she stays in power as a woman.

IVORY: Sure -- and classy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her video, "Who Runs the World, Girls", check this out.

(MUSIC)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go out to the phone lines. Karen, Missouri, your question or thought -- Karen, Missouri.

KAREN, MISSOURI (via telephone): Hi. My thoughts on Miley Cyrus, I know I`m back talking a little bit but, you know, I have small children and when I see her on the Internet and doing her videos and stuff I`m totally appalled. You can be sexy and wear clothes. It`s ok. But you don`t have to take your clothes and ride a wrecking ball or -- yesterday I saw a photo of Miley Cyrus wearing a red leotard pulling it up her crotch and with a coke can and (inaudible) herself.

You don`t need to do that. You can have a great personality. You can be beautiful and you can also wear clothes doing it. It really bothers me. I`m afraid to see what our children are going to be doing in ten years. I`m scared seriously of what`s happening in our world. I don`t get it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Karen, I agree with you. There are plenty of stars who are very, very sexy but can still project this image of a strong woman instead of just sort of being this hyper-sexualized Barbie doll. And we show some of them. I mean Carey Underwood, Jennifer Lopez, Selena Gomez -- a lot of women can be very sexy without just really becoming, I would say, almost like raw meat. And I hate to say that as vegan, but that`s the phrase that comes to mind -- Mo Ivory.

IVORY: No. I agree with you completely. I think that it`s a choice you make and I think it has a lot to do with the people that are around you, who`s advising you. And that`s why I feel like it`s time for Miley to sit down for a minute and get some better advice. And that`s what I think Sinead O`Connor was trying to do as an artist who`s been through it herself and the same thing with Britney who`s been through it and who`s gone through the turmoil and come out on the other side to make better decisions.

But I`m very disappointed about the people that are around Miley because she is becoming an over-sexualized little kitten with just no respect and I don`t know how she`ll rebound from this -- period. She`s make all of the money but then what will she become in two years from now or two weeks from now or two months from now. And it`s just very sad to see that.

She has the example of people who have done the correct way. She should sit down with Beyonce. She should sit down with Jennifer Lopez. She should sit down with Carey Underwood and just get some advice on how to be beautiful, sexy -- oh, and have some self-respect at the same time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, in a recent MTV documentary Miley explains there`s a method to her madness, that she`s not a mess. It`s all part of her master plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CYRUS: It was really important for me to bring that fun and like that energy on to stage.

You can watch that performance from the VMAs and people could think it was just like a hot mess. But it`s so -- it`s a strategic hot mess.

Right now I`m at a point in my career where I can just be exactly who I want to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A strategic hot mess -- that`s a new one. Ok maybe Miley is a marketing genius but to Sinead O`Connor`s point, is this really how Miley wants to go down in history?

Check this out, a figurine company, herobuilders.com, is now selling a Miley twerking bobble butt. Alexis Tereszcuk -- and we got to keep this up because I mean this kind of sums it all up. Is this how you want to go down in history?

TERESZCUK: I have no problem with Miley Cyrus. I think she is adorable and she worked so hard for that great body. And she knows exactly what is going to keep everybody talking about her. Probably the whole country is going to tune in tomorrow night to "Saturday Night Live" to see if Miley`s going to rip up a picture of Sinead O`Connor on "Saturday Night Life".

I think she is a brilliant marketing person and I think she`s young and she wants to show off her body. I remember wanting to do that when I was young. I didn`t have anything that Miley has --

(CROSSTALK)

IVORY: How is that adorable, though?

(CROSSTALK)

IVORY: Yes and how is that adorable?

TERESZCUK: I don`t think her body is shameful. I don`t think her body is shameful at all.

IVORY: Her body isn`t shameful. But how is that adorable? How is that adorable?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not against nudity. But seriously, I don`t know if you have kids, Alexis, I don`t, I only have chihuahuas but would you want your daughter doing that.

TERESZCUK: I don`t have kids. I have a puppy too but I think it`s fine for Miley.

IVORY: Ok. And I have a 15-year-old daughter and I don`t want her doing it. I have a 15-year-old daughter, and I don`t want her doing it and I don`t want her thinking that Miley is any kind of role model at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you nervous going and what was the experience like?

SPEARS: They were nice. They were very nice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You feel relieved.

SPEARS: Yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CYRUS: Right now I`m at a point in my career where I can be exactly what I want to be. Every time I do anything I want to remember this is what separates me from everybody else.

I have the freedom to do whatever I want because I`m starting as a new artist now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Miley criticized by the pop star legend Sinead O`Connor and Britney Spears seems to agree that there`s something wrong with the hypersexuality that is being displayed in today`s videos. Is that the pot calling the kettle black, perhaps? Remember that "I`m a Slave for You" video that Britney did.

In Britney`s Amp 103.3 radio interview she admits that sex played a big part in making her the megastar she is today. Check this out.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SPEARS: A lot of sex goes into what I do, you know. But sometimes I would like to just bring it back to the old days when there was like one outfit through the whole video and you`re just dancing the whole video and there`s like not that much sex stuff going on.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s face it. There`s pressure to look good and look young. Everybody feels it. But you know, it can become exhausting for somebody like Britney Spears with kids.

Is this part of the war on women? Guys get old, they`re considered distinguished. Women seem to have to remain in the state of perpetual adolescence or they become a disposable commodity.

Back out to the "Lion`s Den". By being consumers of this are we part of the problem, the sexism problem?

IVORY: Sure. Oh, Jane, of course we are. As long as it continues to make money -- like you just said, the other guest just said a second that well, she has a great body, so it`s ok, it`s adorable. How is that adorable to watch her swinging naked on a ball? I don`t think that`s adorable at all. Nor would I ever want my daughter to find that adorable.

But as we consume it -- hold on --

(CROSSTALK)

TERESZCUK: Role models should be Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama not Miley Cyrus.

IVORY: No. That is the absolute extreme.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time ladies. One at a time ladies.

IVORY: That is the extreme --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, your turn, Alexis.

TERESZCUK: First of all, your daughter`s role model -- your daughter`s role model should be people like Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. Not Miley Cyrus. Miley Cyrus is an entertainer and what she does is entertains.

The thing that I like about Britney Spears is I think this is the first honest thing that she has said in five years. She has been so controlled by men, by her father, by her conservators, she finally is telling the truth. This is amazing to me.

This really gives me hope that Britney really finally has her ducks in a row. She realized what everybody did to her. And she now is saying this. Do you know how much trouble she`s in right now? Her dad and her manager came out and said this isn`t true, nobody is pressuring her. But Britney spoke up for herself. I`m really proud of her.

IVORY: I`m very proud -- listen, I`m very proud of Britney Spears experience as well and I think that her maturity has allowed her to come to this point. But to say that my daughter`s role model should be Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama, when she goes to a party at night, she`s not listening to Michelle Obama`s and Hillary Clinton`s speeches to dance on the dance floor.

So when you become a parent I think you will realize that you have to balance what`s going on socially in society and entertainment plays a huge role in their lives.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you become a parent. Let`s not say when you become a parent as if it`s inevitable.

(CROSSTALK)

IVORY: Ok.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to hit 9 billion people on this planet by 2050 and there`s a lot of kids of who need to be adopted. Then you become an adoptive parent.

All right. But look, is there a level of hypocrisy here? Britney`s new video is called "Work B-word". We can`t say it on TV, "Work B-word". I mean how can you criticize other people or say that you`re tired of hyper sexuality when that`s the title of your video?

IVORY: Good point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll throw it to Mo. I`ll throw it to Mo.

IVORY: Yes. Listen, good point. It`s kind of hypocritical. But at the same time I think what we`re seeing in Britney is sort of a little bit of her own growth process going on. A lot of the records, a lot of the titles, a lot of the album covers come from the record company. A lot of times the artist doesn`t even really have a say so that much in it.

I don`t necessarily think that`s the case with Britney Spears because she`s such a mega star. She probably does have input but I feel the tension between saying on the one hand that you want to bring the sexuality down and then on the other hand you name your record that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have very little time. Let me say this. When I was a kid we didn`t have all these girls and women as role models in terms of being on the news. It was always the boy bands. At least now we`re talking about females.

IVORY: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s progress. I`m going to hang on to every bit of progress we can find.

Up next a surprise.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day, send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane.

Magz -- you are just breathtaking. You leave me speechless, you`re so gorgeous. And look at Texii -- boy, you`ve got some tricks and they`re not up your sleeve, they`re on your nose. That is a winner. Parker Pack -- you say hey, we hang together, we run together, we got different colored collars. Sami -- you are just stunning, stunning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey little Rico. I am thrilled to announce a huge victory for animals tonight around the world. 150 drugstores in China have just announced they will no longer sell bear bile products, making that more than 260 pharmacies and 11 companies in China who are now bear bile free. Plus one of China`s industrial bear bile farms withdrew its application for a stock market launch.

Here`s what we`re talking about, the hard work far from over. There are thousands of bears being tortured who need our help. Take a look at this. It`s medieval torture. Some 12,400 bears all across Asia forced to live their entire lives in tiny cages, so small they can`t turn around or even stand up. It`s all so their bile can be sucked out of them with a tube for use in some kind of traditional medicine. Even though studies now say that bile actually causes more harm than good.

Critics say sucking out the bile from a bear`s body is painful, cruel and causes massive infections to innocent, helpless bears. It`s torture plain and simple. Look at these bears? They`re mostly starved, dehydrated, they suffer from multiple diseases. Bottom line, it`s barbaric and totally unnecessary.

Straight out to one of my heroes, a crusader who`s devoted her life to fighting to save these bears. Jill Robinson, founder of the incredible group Animals Asia. Jill, the famous basketball player Yao Ming, known for his height now getting known for his heart; he is also crusading against the bile bear farms as part of a budding animal rights movement inside China.

What`s going on in China to try make this a part of the past? Something that hopefully they will one day look at with horror and say, no more?

JILL ROBINSON, ANIMALS ASIA: Jane, there`s simply nothing less than a revolution going on in China now. There are hundreds of thousands of people joining us. One can even say hundreds of millions today, actually, just rising up against the bear bile industry, because it is so unconscionably cruel and one doesn`t need bear bile in traditional medicine.

We have the doctors, as you say, joining us. We have celebrities; we have people actually going out in flash mobs in the streets. I`ve never seen anything like it. And it`s really -- you know, everything`s coming full circle now after working against this industry for the last 20 years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to point out that there are no happy bears in this story, except the ones who had been rescued. So the ones who have been rescued are rescued by AnimalsAsia.org -- you can learn on the other side of the break how you can get involved. How you can go to www.animalsasia.org and actually sponsor a bear that has been rescued from this hellish existence.

Stay right there. More on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This convoy of vehicles is preparing to set out on a major rescue mission. And this is where they`re going for the rescue. This is a so-called bear farm. The word farms sounds so normal, so innocuous, but it`s not innocuous. It`s actually a cruel, heartless place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the cages of shame go to animalsasia.org. Get involved. You can sponsor a rescued bear. What, Jill, should Americans do?

ROBINSON: Please join Animals Asia. Go to our Web site and help us stand behind the people of China. These are the people believe it or not that ending bear farming in their own country and they need our help to do it. I can`t emphasize that enough.

Great strides are being made now across the country and it`s up to us now to empower and help every single Chinese doing that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: These are the rescued bears. This is how bears should live in peace and harmony and freedom, able to move. Help them.

Nancy Grace is up next. Right, Rico?

END