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Road Rage Outrage; Miley: No Apologies & No Regrets
Aired October 7, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, road rage outrage. Did police stand by and do nothing? We`ve got new pictures and video.
Plus, first she was twerking, then she was tweeting, and now, Miley Cyrus is finally speaking. Hear from her in the behavior bureau.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.
And tonight, Miley Cyrus defending the infamous VMA performance and finally speaking for the first time about her Twitter feud with Irish singer Sinead O`Connor.
But, first, new pictures and disturbing video of bikers attacking an SUV. Apparently off-duty police officers were there and may have stood by and done nothing, Sam. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: You see that biker right there? He starts to slow down. That right there is when the Range Rover tapped the biker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He struck a motorcycle that had slowed in front of him. The motorcyclist seen here who repeatedly smashed the car windows using his helmet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My client obviously overreacted in smashing the window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alexian Lien was pulled of his SUV, beaten and slashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was not a participant in any assault on that victim.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they have arrested yet another man involved in this beatdown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say the second man charged Rob Simms stomped on Lien and tried to open the SUV`s doors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not a gang. We`re not a gang.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: NYPD cops were working undercover at that rally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did it take so long for him to come forward? This incident happen on Sunday and he didn`t come forward until Wednesday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was compelled to report this immediately.
PINSKY: Joining us now: Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Danny Cevallos, attorney and CNN legal analyst, HLN`s Lynn Berry, and Emily Miller, senior editor of opinion at "Washington Times", also, author of "Emily Gets her Gun."
And, joining by phone, CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti.
Susan, you`ve been following the story. Give us the latest.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew.
Well, tonight another biker has been arrested. He`s 29 years old. His name is Craig Wright. He`s been charged with three different counts including gang assault, assault and unlawful imprisonment.
Now, police are telling me that he allegedly used his fist, used his feet, even used his helmet to assault this driver of the SUV after he was pulled out of the car. And, yes --
PINSKY: Well, no, it`s just disturbing to hear these stories. What`s new about these allegations about a New York off-duty police officer having waited four days to report this incident?
CANDIOTTI: Exactly. Right now, internal affairs is investigating this. He`s been pulled off the street, not surprisingly, and dinner a desk job while they investigate this.
But that`s what my sources are telling me, that you have at least this one undercover cop, who was off-duty at the time, and who was present for the whole thing, including the assault -- that`s according to my sources -- and that he waited until Wednesday following the Sunday assault to report this to his superiors. Now, this makes no sense, even if you were working off-duty undercover and you were afraid of blowing your cover -- that`s what I`m told -- why would you wait so long to report it?
Now, we understand as well, one more thing, there`s at least one other undercover cop, who was also off-duty and working that who also is being investigated.
PINSKY: Thanks, Susan.
I also understand that he wasn`t undercover with that gang, guys. So, it`s not as though he was undercover in that gang, and they`re claiming they`re not a gang, by the way. I want to show you pictures from "New York Post" showing what happened when the bikers finally caught up with the SUV. Here they are smashing the back window. The driver you can see on the ground, pulled from the car and beaten. There he is on the ground, on his all fours.
Now, bystanders eventually step in to try to stop the attack.
Danny, this seems to show a defenseless man being brutally beaten. Am I missing something?
DANNY CEVALLOS, ATTORNEY: No, I think you`re interpreting the pictures pretty accurately.
I mean, some -- to play devil`s advocate for a moment, it`s interesting when we talk about the undercover policeman, because could an argument be made that up until the car is actually stops and, of course, the vigilante justice ensues, but up until that moment, it`s entirely possible that one of the motorcyclists could have seen a Range Rover running over a few of his buddies, and I have to wonder, to what degree just following that SUV just to keep them from escaping, that is a citizen`s privilege to do so.
I don`t condone any of the vigilante justice, but it is interesting that on some level, as citizens, they were privileged to at least follow and possibly even prevent escape under New York law.
PINSKY: Danny, I actually am sympathetic to that point of view, too, a little bit. But I want to show you the picture of the man who smashed the driver`s window, who was in court yesterday. Norman Lono captured this picture of him flipping off a reporter.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That doesn`t help his case.
PINSKY: It does not help his case. Doesn`t make me feel as though he was the guy interested in doing his civic duty, Mark.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Yes, I agree. It`s going to be hard for me to defend him. Maybe I would argue he`s showing everyone the peace sign with just one finger? No? That wouldn`t work?
PINSKY: I guess you can`t do it. No.
EIGLARSH: No. Prosecutors are considering the total package. They`re considering the fact that the world is watching, and if the climate is such that these are guys who are perceived as not good people, then the plea offers will reflect that. I don`t think he did himself any service by doing that.
PINSKY: And, Lynn, we covered this story last week. I got a lot of heat for saying, you know, I want to believe if I felt threatened -- and I`m sure the driver felt threatened, but I would want to believe I wouldn`t run over somebody unless I had absolute -- like somebody was holding a weapon at me or something. You know what I`m talking about?
BERRY: I do. I`d like to believe I`m would do the same. But one of the members of your behavior bureau pointed out accurately, you are trained as a physician to have that sort of fight or flight -- you can combat your fight or flight instinct. I, on the other hand, as a regular citizen, when something happens that seem sort of traumatic, I tend to freeze up. That`s just a way I am.
And if I were on that situation, if I had my 2-year-old little baby in the car, I will tell you, and I said it last week, I would have hit that gas pedal as quickly as I could to get my baby out of that situation.
PINSKY: I think a lot of people feel that way. Twitter let me know that, a lot of people feel that way.
But, Emily, you`re new to this panel. What were your first thoughts when you first heard the story?
EMILY MILLER, SENIOR EDITOR OF OPINION, WASHINGTON TIMES: Well, my first thought was obviously I think this poor man, his family, they were victimized, there was no question about that. Why nobody came to their defenses, especially these cops didn`t even help them. They acted out of panic.
But my first thought was New York City has the strictest gun control laws in the country, along with some of the other big cities like Chicago and D.C., and when those motorcycle thugs, drug dealers, whatever they were, pulled that car over and started beating up that father, scaring that mother and baby, it`s because they knew the guy wasn`t armed. That man was disarmed.
Think about that. Would this have happened in a state like, say, Texas or Florida, where people have carry rights or people have guns to defend themselves?
SCHACHER: So we should arm everything? I think that`s the worst possible situation. What if all the bikers we are armed with guns as well?
SCHACHER: Then it`s an old Western shootout. Not smart at all.
MILLER: Why would it be bad for a law-abiding person like the man driving that car or like me who has a gun, why is it a bad for us to have a gun to defend ourselves?
SCHACHER: OK, I`m not saying it`s a bad idea.
BERRY: He has a Range Rover and did defend himself.
SCHACHER: And what if one of the bikes who bashed in the window and took the gun from him and now, he`s armed. I don`t think that`s the best way possible.
PINSKY: Let me ask this --
SCHACHER: I don`t think that`s a good solution.
PINSKY: Emily, what if -- so I think what you are saying is if you had been driving that SUV, you would have shown your weapon.
MILLER: Well, I live in Washington, D.C., and we`re not allowed to take our guns out of the homes like the Constitution allows anyway. But I`m saying, if this incident, I don`t think this incident would have happened in a state like, say, Virginia or Florida or Texas, where there are people with carry permits, where there are people who are armed, unlike New York City, which Mayor Bloomberg has pretty much disarmed the populace, I don`t think this would have happened.
PINSKY: I`ve got a defense attorney from Florida, and I`m sure, Mark, you never defend anybody who uses a firearm?
EIGLARSH: No, and I only defend --
MILLER: Do you think this whole thing would have happened?
EIGLARSH: Of course, it would have. It does. I defend people every day. It happens all the time. I don`t think that what you`re sigh.
MILLER: Motorcycle gangs attack cars like that? That motorcycle people just speed around --
EIGLARSH: It`s not often, but it happens. Not just motorcycle riders, but random people who get into with people. It just happens. Road rage happens everywhere. It`s hot down here, too, you know?
MILLER: This was not road rage. This was an assault and attack on an innocent family. They drove 50 blocks, followed them, and then beat them. To the man who was incapable of even driving because the tires were so destroyed.
I mean, this went on and on and on. This was not one incident of road rage. This was a gang mentality where they jumped in and they kept attacking in broad daylight in the middle of the city.
PINSKY: All right. Here`s what we`re going to do --
EIGLARSH: You bring guns to the equation you have dead bodies, though, I don`t know.
PINSKY: Well, here`s what we`re going to do. We`re going to hear from --
MILLER: Or you stop a crime before it happens.
PINSKY: I wish it was that way. I like to believe t would be like that. But I have a feeling --
MILLER: Well, Dr. Drew, there are millions of stories every year of people using guns to defend themselves, and there`s -- while gun crime is going down every year.
PINSKY: All right. What we`re going to do is we`re going to hear from a biker who touched off the whole incident.
And later on, I`ve got Miley Cyrus speaking out in her first interview since the VMAs. We will hear what she has to say in the behavior bureau.
Don`t go away. We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGIO CONSUEGRA, BYSTANDER AT BIKER ATTACK ON SUV: He started breaking the glass. He finally opened the door, and he grabbed the lady in front of the SUV, and he grabbed her by her arms. He was pulling her out of the car. She started screaming, and then we saw the baby. And everybody started screaming, no, no, not the lady, not with the baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back.
My co-host Samantha Schacher.
And we`ve been discussing the SUV driver who was swarmed and beaten by a pack of bikers in New York City. That was a bystander who jumped in to help the driver.
Back with us, Mark, Danny, Lynn and Emily.
Mark, undercover cops apparently were riding with the bikers. It`s hard to understand why they didn`t put a stop to it or why they didn`t report it right when it happens.
EIGLARSH: Yes, I have no answer to that. At first I said, well, they`re undercover, they don`t want to blow anything, they`re going to arrest somebody. Bu then why wait days later and finally report it? It doesn`t make sense. I don`t think they have a defense. I don`t --
PINSKY: The guy who caused the initial accident spoke to ABC`s "Good Morning America" this morning and look at how he defended himself. I`m going to show this. Look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t think I was doing anything wrong with just turning into another lane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Except you are going really slowly in front of him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other bikes were going as slow as I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, because it looks like they`re slowing down because you`re all trying to get this guy to stop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, my intention was never to make him stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Lynn, is that your understanding what the guy was up to?
BERRY: I mean, listen, he`s sitting next to his lawyer and started a story that has endured in the news for days and days and days. He knows he`s in a lot of trouble because he`s the one that kicked it off.
So, of course, he`s going to say something like that. But, Dr. Drew, you were just talking about how you wish that you could believe in yourself that you wouldn`t have put yourself on the gas and run over them.
BERRY: I wish and I think all of us wish that we would be a bystander that would step in. But keep in mind, these are hundreds of these very aggressive bikers. These weren`t just guys that were hanging out in a regular motorcycle ride. They were provocative, and they were angry and they were aggressive. Who knows if one of them would have had a gun?
That`s what I would have been thinking about as a bystander, and that`s why I would have been scared to step in themselves, and you don`t know if the undercover cops felt the same way.
PINSKY: Lynn, were you one of the people who saw the group? Is that you? I forget --
BERRY: I did, yes.
PINSKY: Now, you described them as so aggressive. You know, they looked that way in retrospect, because we see all the horrible things that happened. But I don`t know, if the guy is doing wheelies down the street, it`s a big bunch of bikers, who cares?
BERRY: No, no, no. I know what you`re thinking and know why you say that, but I was sitting there on the side of the West Side highway. I got nervous being on the sidewalk. They were popping their wheels, they were making faces at everyone, a lot of them were wearing these masks, some liked like sort of costume masks, and they were being provocative and aggressive even before any of this happens.
And we were all talking about it there on the sidewalk. We were just trying to cross the West Side Highway at 23rd Street. So this is -- I know it`s hard for people to understand, this was something that I saw for my own eyes as them being provocative before any of this even happened.
SCHACHER: I just can`t believe that footage of that biker who is clearly on purpose slowing down in front of the Range Rover and they he has the audacity on live television to say that didn`t slow down on purpose. I think that makes them look worse, own up.
PINSKY: Emily, you look surprised by all of this? I want to go to Emily.
MILLER: Well, I`ll tell you what I find to be -- I mean, we already have four people in custody over this. Obviously, they`re all going to get charged heavily for what they did. I find this situation with the cops very suspicious. Why has Police Commissioner Ray Kelly slowed down and not told us?
This undercover thing, this is only a rumor. We have absolutely no evidence. Ray Kelly never said anyone was undercover. All we know is there is at least one, possibly two, off-duty police officers in the situation who did not stand up.
And police officers have an obligation, whether on duty or not, to stop something, much less conscience as a human being when you see somebody getting beat to death. And just to specify, if you look at the crime numbers, in the FBI every year, more people beat are beat to death with hands and feet every year than the combination of people killed with rifles and shotguns combined.
And the police officers know that. Why they didn`t get involve is unbelievable to me and why is Ray Kelly, the police commissioner, not telling anyone?
PINSKY: What do you suspect?
MILLER: I suspect that he`s scared of a lawsuit, because that`s what`s going to happen. That family is going to sue the city for the police officers who didn`t get involved.
PINSKY: This is -- the more I watch this, anybody else just get a horrible -- Sam, go ahead. This whole thing is so awful, you know, of course, you like to talk about the fact that, you know, woe is me, I hope I wouldn`t do something this horrible, but this thing got so out of hand on all fronds, people are on ventilators in hospitals now. This poor family was traumatized. Who knows if they`ll ever recover?
Go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: No, I agree. It`s a terrible situation. No matter how you look at it. I just wanted to say that comparing, you know, hands or your fists to guns, we`re all article with our fists. So it`s a skewed statistic to say there was more deaths from fists than weapons, because we are all armed with our fists. Just saying.
MILLER: That`s not skewed. That`s not skewed. That`s just factual, the FBI statistics are more people are beaten to death every year than --
SCHACHER: Because there`s more people with fists than people with guns.
MILLER: That`s the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
PINSKY: OK, hold on. I want to show you guys a tweet, pull this tweet up there.
MILLER: So let`s start regulating fists.
PINSKY: Hold on. Well, we do regulate fists. Emily, I can`t just beat somebody. Come on now, we do regulate that.
MILLER: She`s talking about like having laws.
PINSKY: By the way, we should be so lucky. Mark, would you like your fists registered and outlawed? That would be awesome.
Let me --
EIGLARSH: They are.
PINSKY: I want to put this twist on here. Can somebody put the tweet up here? Was it possible? This tweet from luxury real estate (ph).
Here it comes, guys. (INAUDIBLE), he says, "For the first time I saw the video, I felt the life of the Range Rover" -- they could put it up. "He did what he had to do to try to protect his family."
That`s what I want to ask my attorneys, both Danny and Mark -- Mark, you first. What should happen to this driver if, say, that guy that`s on the ventilator, supposedly paralyzed, never recovers?
EIGLARSH: Well, the outcome of what he did is not the issue. The issue is, was he justified in driving his vehicle away at that moment? The fact that he dies or he gets injured or he recovers, that`s not the issue. Was he justified in doing so?
And so far, police found that he is. Just so we`re clear, what he does and what the other people do are separate issues. People are trying to point the finger -- well, he`s wrong, so he`s right. It doesn`t work that way. Everyone is judged independently.
PINSKY: And, Danny, take me home. You were tying them together a bit. Go ahead.
CEVALLOS: Yes, what a fine line there is in the police investigation between defendant and victim. This case illustrates that. Consider of the most serious injuries, is a person that the police may have even charged or could have charged as a defendant.
It`s amazing how just the police`s initial impression will guide the entire case going forward from that moment on. It`s an unenviable position. They have to make difficult snap judgments. This is one of them.
PINSKY: And finally, Lynn, I`ve got a few seconds here. Where is this going if here? What`s the next few days going to hold?
BERRY: Well, keep in mind New York has probably the most surveillance cameras of any city in the world. So, there are many, many more developments that are going to come out as they peel through countless testimony, countless witness accounts and then that video. So, we`re not going to hear the last of the story.
PINSKY: Thank you, guys. Good panel.
Next up, Miley Cyrus, she`s sounding off for the first time since her famous -- infamous twerking performance. We`re going to hear what she has to say in the behavior bureau.
Later, a woman is found beaten and strangled, dumped in the woods. Did her cheating, philandering husband kill her? I will ask her close friend what she thinks.
Be right back.
PINSKY: Time for the behavior bureau.
My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
I want to bring the behavior right in before we go to Miley Cyrus. I`ve got clinical and forensic psychologist Cheryl Arutt; criminologist Casey Jordan, host of "Wives with Knives" on Investigation Discovery, Patti Wood, behavior expert and author of "Snap: Making the Most of First Impressions", and our own Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."
Now, before we go to Miley Cyrus, I want you to look at this tweet that Joe sent me. He says, "@DrDrew, something happened before the video starts. For some reason the bikers were angry with the SUV" -- which I thought was an interesting observation.
Danine, I understand you`ve been anxious to ring in here. Go ahead.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, just because I keep hearing about this being considered a road rage situation. I don`t see it as road rage. I see it as a band of thugs that just decided they were going to bother people.
We have something like this in Oakland called a sideshow, where people bother people for no reason.
So, I don`t know what the SUV did or didn`t do, but I just really think they were just out to bother people that day and that`s exactly what they did.
PINSKY: I don`t know, Casey, in Los Angeles, if people bother you, you look straight ahead and mind your business and do not engage.
SCHACHER: I`ll remember that.
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: The bottom line is --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
JORDAN: Go ahead.
PINSKY: No, you.
JORDAN: Just in Los Angeles, people are very famous for leaning out their car windows and shooting people.
PINSKY: I know.
JORDAN: Because they get cut off. I mean, you just don`t mess around with it. You just --
PINSKY: Right. That`s why Emily`s thing about guns was a little bit unsettling. Not good in this part of the country.
All right. We`re going to switch gears. Let`s go to Miley Cyrus. She`s back in the headlines. She was the host of "Saturday Night Live" this weekend. She -- and everyone seems to have an opinion about her. She was the topic of conversation on "The View," "Good Morning America," "The Today" show, take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Live from New York, it`s "Saturday Night Live"!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the latest public appearance from Cyrus as the 20-year-old star continues to grab headlines wherever he goes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miley Cyrus even said in her opening monologues, she was like, Hannah Montana is dead.
MILEY CYRUS, POP STAR: She was murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so unfair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just figured out who she is. What`s happening is the parents can`t let go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want my daughter acting like that.
UNIDNETIFIED MALE: What happened at the MTV awards? It makes these videos all the more, they seem a being desperate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wonder sometimes if her craft and singing is overshadowed by something performing, some of the twerking with teddy bears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shouldn`t be doing this! This is for kids!
BERRY: Miley Cyrus needs to turn in her lady badge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And most interestingly her war of words with Irish songwriter Sinead O`Connor.
PINSKY: She tweeted, "Before Amanda Bynes, there was dot, dot, dot," and she linked to this list of tweets from Sinead O`Connor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She should not have handle it be masse a mockery of mental illness.
PINSKY: My daughter`s friend said something great -- Miley, go to college.
PINSKY: I didn`t know that was going to be in the tape, but I was going to repeat that. I wish Miley could understand more fully the impact she is having, but I ultimately great with Whoopi, Sam. Whoopi is saying the parents can`t let go of her, because we don`t like to see Miley Cyrus having gone from Hannah Montana to this.
SCHACHER: Well, yes, but here`s the think. I mean, this is all carefully orchestrated by her. This is her master plan. If you watch her documentary that recently premiered on MTV, she clearly stated that she wants the media, she wants us, to talk about her for weeks, not just days, weeks, and she`s the captain of her own ship.
This isn`t her record label, recommending that she do this, this isn`t her manager. And she`s laughing all the way to the bank.
PINSKY: And she was somewhat transparent on that on "Saturday Night Live." There`s more here. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CYRUS: I don`t apologize for my VMA performance. If I owe anybody the apology, it`s the people who make the bottom halves of shirts, but there are a few subjects we`re not going to get into tonight.
I`m not going to do Hannah Montana, but I can give you an update on what she`s been up to. She was murdered.
And also, we went back and forth on this, but guys, I just don`t think we should do that wrecking balance sketch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? Miley, c`mon. My mom is here.
CYRUS: Sorry, Bobby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Well, again, she`s being tongue in cheek and transparent, but, Patti, I`m wondering if you as a body language expert see anything there that we might not otherwise pick up?
PATTI WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Absolutely. You`ve got to say, her performance, she rocked. She absolutely loved doing this comedy, and she hit her marks, and she hit it out of the park with the comedy.
However, the body language read, if you look underneath, when she says, I`m not going to be Hannah Montana, there`s the eye flutter, and a change in her facial muscles that actually indicates she`s conflicted about that. And then what just broke my heart is when she said she was murdered.
Again, she does a real high eye flutterer, and she actually puckers her mouth, showing -- it just breaks my heart -- that she really didn`t want to say that.
PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting.
WOOD: She said it, but she really didn`t want to say it. Oh, that killed me.
PINSKY: I thought she -- I thought she never really wanted to be Hannah Montana, perhaps. But be that as it may, here`s I think, Casey that people come up to me and ask all the time, like, what`s wrong with her? Is she ill? I say absolutely not. What do you say?
JORDAN: Oh, I don`t think she`s ill, but I think that she will implode if she keeps rebelling. I mean, this isn`t really a sign of anything other than a girl who really didn`t have a life of her own, absolutely born to a star, and a star from such a young age, and given so much responsibility and a job.
Everyone was in charge of her life and making money off of her for so many years that now she`s over 18, and no one can tell her what to do. She is going to do exactly what she wants. And Samantha is right. We have fallen into her trap, because everybody`s talking about her, and how much they can`t stand her, and how she`s, you know, a runaway train, but the truth is, it`s working. So, we`re being manipulated by the best of them right now.
PINSKY: And Cheryl, I wonder if you agree with what Casey is saying? And may I out your history? Is that OK?
ARUTT: Go for it.
PINSKY: OK. Cheryl was a child star, herself. She did a lot of television, a lot of commercials, and she was really amazing. So, do you have the same perspective as Casey or is your experienced informed you in a different way?
ARUTT: Well, I observed a lot growing up in the entertainment industry. I felt some people go through it in a really healthy way. I some train wreck happened. I would love to think what Samantha was saying that now Miley is really steering her own ship, but I find it really hard to believe that she doesn`t have handlers, and people who know how to optimize this and make a lot of money off of her just as they did when she was a kid.
What really kind of tug (ph) my heart was what Sinead O`Connor was trying to do, because I really think that she comes from a loving place. She`s sort of more in my age range. And, I think what she was trying to say was that you`re so talented, you are so good at this stuff that this can be sold to you as something empowering, but as I think Casey Jordan is saying, you can implode.
There are risks here that I think when you`re 20 years old, you don`t necessarily fully appreciate, and I wish her the best, because she`s so good.
PINSKY: And the impact she may be having on young women. I`m not sure she`s --
PINSKY: If you have a question for the "Behavior Bureau," you can tweet us @DrDrewHLN #BehaviorBureau.
Later on, a woman beaten, strangled, dumped in the woods. I`m going to ask her friend whom she believed is responsible for that murder. Back after this.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark." It`s the next big trial, Utah versus Dr. Martin MacNeill. Prosecutors say he killed his wife in a bathtub.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: Right. But he says he has an alibi, and that`s why we`re taking one of the biggest bold questions of this case, does the doctor`s alibi make sense? This jury is ready. They`re champing a bit tonight --
POLITAN: All right. We`ll show them all the evidence, and we`ll get a verdict by the end of the hour. "HLN After Dark."
PINSKY: We are back with the "Behavior Bureau," and my co-host, Samantha Schacher. I`ve got Cheryl, Danine, Patti, and Casey, and we`ve been talking about Miley Cyrus and the media blitz surrounding her recent "Saturday Night Live" hosting, and of course, the VMA thing. This morning, she had an interview with Matt Lauer on "Today Show." I want to show you a piece of it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any do-overs in terms of your career right now? Is there something you would like to do differently that you`ve done in the last couple of months?
MILEY CYRUS, SINGER: I can`t change anything. I can`t go back. So, I can do a lot of things, but I can`t change the past. Nothing. I can`t change. But, you know, anything I can`t control I don`t really think about. I just live my life the way it is and I don`t really regret anything.
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PINSKY: Then Matt asked her about the next five years, her future. Take a look at that. A little bit more.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a five-year plan? You said you don`t plan things a second, but I think you meant overnight, but do you have a five-year plan?
CYRUS: Not really. I`m focused on when I get to go on tour, which is going to be next year, which I`m really excited about.
CYRUS: So, that`s really my focus. My plan is focusing on right now, on continuing what I`m doing. I`m the happiest I`ve ever been in my whole life. So, I`m really happy to be here.
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PINSKY: Danine, I wonder if you have a reaction to any of that?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I do. You know, people who live in the president and don`t think about the future or the impact of their decisions can get themselves in a lot of trouble. And you touched on something in the last segment about, you know, her impact -- the impact of her actions on young girls, and that`s the part that really upsets me.
She says that her only apology is to clothing makers and who makes the little shirts. Her apology needs to be -- or her feeling of responsibility needs to be to the young girls and the young women out there who are now getting the impression that the only way you can get any type of attention or respect in the industry is to take off your clothes and gyrate up against a fully clothed man on stage. I don`t understand why you have to check your dignity and your self-respect at the door in order to get on --
PINSKY: And if you remember like last week, Lynn wanted her lady card back from her. But you guys are all highly trained, accomplished professionals. I`m going to start with Casey. How does your gut react to this? I mean, you hear what Danine said about other, you know, younger women, the impact, does it bother you?
JORDAN: Yes, it does. But at the same time, Miley Cyrus is playing us. Matt asked her two very direct questions, and she didn`t answer either one of them, and I hate the professional side-stepper. He says, "what would you do differently?" And she says, "well, I can`t." He didn`t ask if she could. He asked what she would do. And then she just used the next question to promote herself and her -- you know, going on tour, and all that.
I honestly think the best thing we can do for Miley is not tell her she`s going to be a role model for young women, because she does not care about that. It`s simply to quit buying into her manipulation. Just call it like you see it. She`s manipulative, she`s self-promoting. That`s what she wants to do. It doesn`t appeal to me, and there`s nothing you can do about all of the --
PINSKY: Wait, I want to go to Patti because she was really enthusiastically nodding her head when Casey was talking. Go ahead, Patti.
WOOD: There`s a whole another layer here. When she says I can`t, I can`t, and can`t, she`s depersonalizing. There`s some heartbreak. I really need to emphasize that she`s disassociating and not realizing the impact that this is having on --
PINSKY: Possibly. Sam?
SAMANTHA, SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: OK. I think that we are breaking this down way too much. I mean, clearly, yes, did I think that her performance was distasteful? Did I think that her music video was raunchy --
SCHACHER: OK. But listen at the end of the day, this is a performer. This is what she does. And what I like about Miley Cyrus, which we also heard in the interview today is that Miley off the stage, at least, treats people with respect, is kind, isn`t self-entitled, like a number of other celebrities out there. So, why don`t we focus on that aspect, too?
PINSKY: OK. I`ll give Cheryl last word. Sam is telling us, Cheryl, that sometimes a cigar is just a good smoke.
ARUTT: Or a sledgehammer, depending upon the video you`re watching. But I think Sam`s point is well-taken. I do think that Miley Cyrus is treating people well offstage. I don`t think she is putting herself out there as wanting to be a role model, but guess what? You`re going to have that kind of impact when you have that kind of fame, and I just wish that we could find a way to be pro-sexuality without being pro-exploitation.
ARUTT: And give young women more legs to stand on for their chops and not their chops, if you know what I mean.
PINSKY: Check, check.
PINSKY: Next up, thank you, panel. Did a cheating husband strangle his wife and then dumped her body in the wood? A friend is here with an inside look at that relationship, and she will tell us why she -- he will tell us why he believed he killed her.
And later, how did a nine-year-old boy get through airport security, hop on a flight to Las Vegas, get to Las Vegas without a plane ticket? A nine-year-old. Check this out. We`ll talk about it after the break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nicole Pietz, David`s wife, vanished in 2006. Her body was later found in a wooded area, strangled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did murder become the way you deal with a problem relationship? He said he had a low sexual libido and he wasn`t that into sex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have much of a libido.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had sex.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember kissing him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just the three of us kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just trying to loosen her up to get her to do threesome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you do what he says, and you do the way he wants you to do it, he`s your best friend. The second you crossed him, you can see him talking how he`s going to get back at you.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher, along with Lynn Berry, Casey Jordan, and Mark Eiglarsh, and we are talking about a man on trial for strangling his wife and dumping the body in the woods. Prosecutors say David Pietz was in a troubled marriage, had financial problems, and was a serial cheater. In just a second, I`m going to talk to a friend who says David`s personality reminded him of a, quote, "sleazy use car salesman."
Witnesses in this trial told the jury that David is into -- some interesting recreational activities like drugs, alcohol, threesomes. He puts that on the list. So, my question to the panel is, I`m going to start with Mark, does the questionable behavior make him or put -- I want to ask the question in a way because it doesn`t make it obvious. It`s easy to say. So what? So, the guy does these things. He doesn`t make him a killer.
But when people engage in a lot of problematic behaviors, they call their behavior into suspect generally, do they not, Mark?
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Yes, and I think that most jurors who are instructed to bring their common sense to jury deliberations will feel the way that you just explained. However, it seems in this case that there`s a shortage of forensic evidence tying him to the body, but overwhelming evidence beyond all doubt that this guy was a creep.
PINSKY: And Case, you get what I`m getting at here, right, that this guy misbehaved, was into behavior that suggested he didn`t have empathy for other people, so it`s easy to speculate, I wonder how far that lack of empathy went.
JORDAN: Oh, well, sometimes, I think we should rename your show. You know, Dr. Drew`s hour on narcissistic personality. This guy is yet another foster child for narcissism.
JORDAN: I mean, he really is. Everything about it is manipulation, the splitting, the ego maniacal (ph), you know, everything. But the biggest thing about convicting him, you can`t just convict somebody because they are a narcissist.
JORDAN: But think of all of the evidence, and Mark is correct, think of them as pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. A jury basically gets enough pieces that they look at it and go, I see the picture. I am 100 percent convinced it is a picture of something specific even if a piece is missing. I`ve had clients convicted on cell phone pings alone with no other forensic evidence. So, it can happen. And I think it`s very likely the jury is going to look at his personality as a big piece --
PINSKY: Sam, you wanted to say something here?
SCHACHER: Well, yes. Well, for one, I think we should call it today a narcissism. OK? Number two, I think, let`s say even if this guy is innocent -- I don`t think he is -- but even if he is, his credibility is shot at this point. I`m sorry telling the police that I have a low libido, but then he`s out there having sex with women left and right? So --
PINSKY: Lying is -- list of narcissistic manipulation and using facts for convenience. But I want to talk to CJ Brady. He`s on the phone. He`s a friend of Nicole Pietz. He also worked with David, the suspect. CJ, when you heard Nicole was missing, what was your first thought?
VOICE OF CJ BRADY, FRIEND OF NICOLE PIETZ: There was for doubt in my mind what had happened, and that she wasn`t coming home.
PINSKY: That he had done something?
PINSKY: You know, I heard that you observed him doing some bizarre things with his co-workers like claiming after seeing an episode of "CSI," he knew better ways to, quote, "dispose bodies?" Can you tell us about that?
BRADY: Dave had a very manipulative smart sort of attitude. And he liked to portray himself as being a very intelligent person. So, he would watch an episode of CSI, coming to work the next day, and still within the plot fold (ph) and how if he was going to do something, how he would get away with it.
And start writing random equations on our whiteboard in our office to prove a point of how smart he was and how he could get away with anything.
PINSKY: Lynn, I`ve got -- I`m up against the clock -- 30 seconds. Go ahead.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Real quick, there`s another friend of his that said the exact same thing that you`re saying. Have you guys reached out to law enforcement so that the jury can hear these character accounts that you guys seem to be parroting?
BRADY: Unfortunately, nobody has reached out to me since Nicky`s body was found originally when the detective called me, but at that point in time, I told them everything I knew about Dave and how creepy maniacal (ph) I thought he was.
PINSKY: OK. CJ, stand by. We`re going to have more on this murder mystery in just a second.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher, along with Lynn, Casey, and Mark. And we`re talking about the man charged with strangling his wife and dumping her body in a field. CJ Brady is still with us. He says that when Nicole Peietz went missing, he knew instantly that the husband, David, was involved, the suspect.
And tell us, CJ, about David`s -- we`re hearing all about this inappropriate sexual behavior with women. I guess you witnessed that as well?
BRADY: I did. I actually witnessed it with Jackie more than anybody. She would come and tell me -- at that point in time, he was my general manager, I was the assistant manager, and she was the salesperson below me.
PINSKY: We heard from Jackie last week. Mark vigorously wants to ask you a question. I`m going to let Mark ask. Go ahead, Mark.
EIGLARSH: CJ, I`m trying to figure out motive here. Would you argue that he wanted to have three-ways and do drugs and she didn`t so he chose to kill her?
PINSKY: That makes sense to me.
BRADY: I would say that he originally got involved with Nicky because of her position in the company and who she was friends with, to try and help his career, and at one point time, that no longer was a benefit to him and he wasn`t really in love with her.
PINSKY: Sam, do you have a question.
SCHACHER: Yes. That was my question was why would he marry her in the first place given that his behavior is not really that of marriage.
PINSKY: Casey, do you believe -- only psychopaths would kill somebody out of convenience. Even a severe narcissist, they`re just going to leave them behind and divorce them and not think anything of it, right?
JORDAN: Well, sure. And sociopathy can evolve into psychopathy. This guy reminds me so much of Scott Peterson. I mean, really. He didn`t have a good reason for killing Lacy (ph). He simply had a girlfriend on the side. We are seeing more and more of these cases of people who have these lives, and very often, narcissistic, that these lives where they have a double life, and their spouse isn`t into it and so they decided instead of getting divorce, to just dispose of the spouse.
The idea that David thought he was so smart, smarter than cops, smarter than CSI, is really I think what`s going to work against him in this case. All of the forensic evidence is really pointing towards him. The mouth retainer, the clean feet during the dump. She was killed in her bed and probably dumped by him. I think the jury is going to believe that.
PINSKY: Lynn, mere seconds.
BERRY: Well, literally, I think that the narcissism goes to that it could have been an act of passion, that it happened, and the he covered something up.
PINSKY: We don`t know what.
BERRY: I agree with you that it seems strange that having an affair, he just -
PINSKY: He was doing something inappropriate. She was going -- himself. OK. I got to go, guys. I want to ask you about a nine-year-old boy making it onto a flight to Las Vegas without a ticket, without his family, without an adult. Tell you that story when we get back.
PINSKY: Time for the "Last Call." Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher. Sam, I want to tell you a story and I want you to react to it. A nine-year-old walks into the Minneapolis airport, goes on through security, sort of lops (ph) along with another family, hops on a flight to Las Vegas.
PINSKY: Sort of on hills of another family. No ticket, no ticket. He sort of pretended - we`re hearing kind of pretended he was with the family. It wasn`t until after the flight was in the air that the crew became suspicious, and the boy had apparently run away from home and even staked out the airport a day in advance before making this escape to Las Vegas.
Now, police showed up to question the boy`s parents. They reportedly said, we haven`t seen much of him today.
SCHACHER: Wow! OK. First of all, I was thinking this is Kevin McAllister from "Home Alone," but in all seriousness, where are the parents and how did he get past airport security? That`s crazy.
PINSKY: Right. So, us adults, we got to be held accountable from top to bottom of this.
PINSKY: Where is the family? Where is the security? Where is the flight crew? Crazy story. Keep your eye on that. Thank you, Sam. Thank you all for watching. We will see you next time. And just a reminder that "HLN After Dark" begins right now.