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Al Libi on FBI Most Wanted List; More Political Drama; Deadly Violence Flares in Egypt; Interview With Sen. Charles Schumer

Aired October 7, 2013 - 08:00   ET


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Inside the raids that captured this most wanted terrorist, how the U.S. military did it. SEAL Team 6 back in action in North Africa on the anniversary of Black Hawk Down. Did something go wrong again?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Dead stop. Negotiations over the shutdown appear to come to a screeching halt. The war of words heats up over the weekend, neither side, though, moving. We're live with the latest.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Terrifying crash at this IndyCar race, a dozen spectators injured by debris. The driver survived but his Hollywood wife has to say now.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.



ANNOUNCER: What you need to know --

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The president is risking default by not having the conversation with us.

ANNOUNCER: What you just have to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the media are being unfair with me. I'm a family man, two kids. I try to stay away from trouble.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan, and Michaela Pereira.


BOLDUAN: Good morning and welcome back to NEW DAY. It is 8:00 in the East.

The longer this partial government shutdown wears on the closer we're getting to hitting another deadline. Congress must act on raising the nation's debt ceiling before October 17th. If the deadline is missed, many say could mean catastrophic consequences for the nation's economy.

CUOMO: Plus, we're hearing from the family of the woman killed in Washington after trying to ram the gates of the White House. You'll remember she then led police on the high-speed chase before everything ended. They say she was mentally ill and didn't have to die. We're going to talk to them in a few minutes.

PEREIRA: What happens in Vegas does not necessarily stay in Vegas. We're going to talk about the story of a 9-year-old Minnesota boy who duped security screeners three times and gate agents and was able to board a flight to Sin City without a ticket and without an adult accompanying him.

BOLDUAN: All right. We begin, though this hour the twin two are raids in Libya and Somalia. U.S. officials capturing a top al Qaeda operative in Tripoli, looking to him to help now for intelligence to help thwart future attacks.

And also in Somalia, Navy SEALs came under fire targeting an al Shabaab commander.

We're covering this story like only CNN can.

The Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, and crime and justice correspondent Joe Johns, as well as former Special Forces officer, James Reese.

Let's start this hour with Barbara at the Pentagon.

Good morning, Barbara.


Well, the suspect in Somalia had ties to attacks that have killed Americans, and that is why SEAL Team 6 was called back into action to risk it all.


STARR (voice-over): An extraordinary show of force by U.S. commandos in highly risky secret operations in Somalia and Libya, Friday, October 4th, pre-dawn on Somalia's southern coast. U.S. Navy SEALs slipped off a commercial ship and raid a terrorist stronghold. But was in moments they are forced to abort under heavy gunfire from militants.

Just a day later, 6:30 a.m., 3,000 miles away on the streets of Tripoli, Libya. Abu Anas Al Libi, a senior al Qaeda operative is returning home from morning prayers. He will be grabbed by U.S. Army Delta Force commandos.

On the streets of Tripoli, al Libi is confronted by cars with 10 masked men. The U.S. team grabs him before he can even reach his gun. They are gone in seconds, not a shot fired.

His wife tells CNN, the men she saw were Libyans. Al Libi is taken to a U.S.-Navy warship. He is wanted by the U.S. for the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa. JEREMY BASH, BEACON GLOBAL STRATEGY: The president clearly had to approve both of these operations. This is to send U.S. military personnel into foreign countries and that's a presidential decision.

STARR: In Somalia, it's SEAL Team Six that is sent, the same unit that killed Osama Bin Laden. In an eerie coincidence, it's 20 years to the day of the Black Hawk Down disaster in Somalia that killed 18 U.S. troops.

This time, the SEALs are hunting an al Shabaab leader named Ikrima.

Al Shabaab is the al Qaeda-linked terror group that claimed responsibility for the shopping mall attack in Kenya two weeks ago. Local Somali say the SEALs went to the house come under fire, the SEALs retreat, not sure if their target is dead. But the Al-Libi mission was a clear success.


STARR: And in both of these raids, we now know that the U.S. commando units had been conducting secret surveillance, gathering intelligence on their targets for weeks. This is the new face of how terrorism will be fought officials tell us. No more big land wars in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. Look for lightning quick, lethal, small, tactical raids, into some very dangerous corners of the world -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Barbara, thank you very much.

The question now is what do they do with the man they captured? A special interrogation group will try to get information from Abu Anas al Libi, the top terrorists grabbed out of Libya over the weekend.

He's expected to also face a federal trial in New York. So, for more on the next steps, let's get to CNN's Joe Johns in the Washington bureau.

Joe, what can you tell us?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, he's been held onboard a U.S. Navy vessel expected to be interrogated from several days, could be several weeks by something called the High- Value Detainee Interrogation Group. This is a group made up of FBI agents, they've got intelligence community officials in there, led by the National Security Council.

And this is a situation where the target doesn't get read his rights, isn't treated with the protections of a civilian defendant and basically is pressed for information about any plans for future attacks, for names, whereabouts of known associates, details on any past plots or attacks basically anything and everything he knows.

Of course the question is how will they do this? Not supposed to use physical force. They'll use established guidelines we're told in interrogation and in this case inevitably is going to bring up the question of whether it's better to try terrorism suspects at Gitmo as opposed to civilian court, Chris.

CUOMO: Familiar question. Joe thank you for the report.

Kate, over to you.

BOLDUAN: All right, Chris. Thanks so much.

Let's break down how these raids happened with James Reese. He's a former Delta Force officer.

Mr. Reese, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for coming in this morning.

JAMES REESE, FORMER DELTA FORCE OFFICER: Good morning, Kate. How are you?

BOLDUAN: Doing really good.

Looking for your expertise to help break down these two operations. So we have Delta Force commandos involved with the operation in Tripoli, Libya. Take us inside an operation like this.

What's going on in this operation -- planning and execution?

REESE: Well, Kate, this is a holistic asymmetric view how mixed operations can help and be conducted by the U.S. It truly is an inner agency operation that's using all of the elements of our federal government, inner agency intelligence operations and it's worldwide right now.

What's really happening right now the guys on the ground, they're using this interagency piece to help them gather the intelligence to make sure when they get the elements to go, they get those factors to go, they have all the aspects on the ground to make that operation successful.

BOLDUAN: CNN spoke to al Libi's wife. And during this conversation, she described what she saw as the following, a group of at least 10 men in four vehicles, they surprised al Libi as he was returning from morning prayers.

Does that sound like a routine capture to you?

REESE: It does. These Special Forces operators, they're like ghosts. They really know how to do this. They conduct the surveillance. They work with the inner agency and this is exactly what SOCOM wants a return on investment, it's that surgical operation to get in, get out and we want to capture these people for all their intelligence that they have.

BOLDUAN: Then what about what happened, the operation in Somalia, different outcome on this one, Navy SEAL Team 6 involved here, clearly whenever you're planning as Barbara Starr said planning an intelligence or weeks, months in advance, you plan for every contingency and variable but clearly they came on more than expected.

What do you think happened here? What were they weighing in deciding to pull out early?

REESE: The one piece every ground force commander has is they want to limit collateral damage, and as that ground force commander makes those assessments on the ground, if the collateral damage starts to increase or if they stay the fight and that collateral damage could increase and become even more, they give the option that ground force commander to make that determination to withdraw from that time.

BOLDUAN: The risk is high, because you're kind ruining that operation, if you will, because you'll not have another chance similar to that for a long while, right?

REESE: Absolutely, plus again, they want to be very surgical. They want to be like ghosts. They want to get in, they want to get out. They want to do the capture or kill.

They don't want to be into a long, sustained operation on the ground. And if that ground force commander can make that determination, he'll get out.

BOLDUAN: We're also hearing from the Pentagon unit this morning, this is the way forward. That's what U.S. officials are saying that we should be expecting the secret lightning strikes.

What are the advances of this type of operation versus other types of operation because it does comes with significant amount of risk as well because you're putting U.S. forces on the ground?

REESE: It does. But as with anything, with high risk, you get high gain. These operations, U.S. special operations have some of the finest commandos in the world, support and operational side. They do this around the world, they work in inner agency operations infusions intelligence perspective, they know how to do this.

For us in the U.S. this is where we need to be going for the future -- the return on investment is great, it reduces the budget capability, one of the aspects with the budgets being cut, this is one of the organizations that really has to be watched that the budgets don't get cut that much so they can continue these type of surgical operations.

BOLDUAN: We'll be seeing much more of these in the future. That's what we're being told.

James Reese, great to see you. Thank you so much for your insights this morning.

REESE: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

We're going to be following this, but a lot of other news making headlines right now. Let's straight over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Kate.

Let's bring you up-to-date. Making news, the partial government shutdown now nearly in its second week, the drama is expected to get more intense as the debt ceiling deadline closes in. John Boehner talking tough, saying there aren't enough votes in the House to pass a clean spending bill. Democrats responding that Boehner should prove it by putting it to a vote.

Crews working at California's Camp Pendleton have built containment lines against a wind-driven wildfire, burned at least 2,500 acres. It forced the evacuation of more than 200 residents from housing units on that military base. The fire at this point is 20 percent contained but officials hope to have full containment by tomorrow.

Deadly violence flaring back up in Egypt, state run media say at least 50 people have been killed and many injured. Government supporters are clashing with supporters of Mohamed Morsy, the Islamist president who was forced from offica.

Muslim Brotherhood protesters have been marching in Cairo and across the country.

At least eight people are dead and dozens more injured by a monster truck at an event in Mexico. Truck ran over an obstacle on the course, spun out of control and into the crowd. Among the fatalities: four children.

Making matters worse officials now say the driver may have been drinking before the event. Blood tests are being performed.

A long lost painting attributed to Leonardo da Vinci has been found in a Swiss bank vault. Look at it yourself. It's quite similar to a 1499 sketch of an Italian aristocrat drawn by da Vinci. That version is hanging in the Louvre in Paris.

If proven to be da Vinci's work, the painting within speculation that the artist lost interesting, or run out of time on that project. Is it amazing that these things are still here, intrigue. I love it.

BOLDUAN: I like it. It's Italian.

Why did I know that? Why did I know that?

Let's get over to Karen Maginnis. She's in for Indra Petersons for a look at forecast -- Karen.

KAREN MAGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: All right. We've to a couple of things that we are watching very carefully, into the northeast, in New England.

We talked all morning how the frontal system will sweep across the Northeast, that I-95 corridor where you could see problems at some of the international airports, Newark, JFK, extending towards Washington, D.C. this is where we have the slight risk of severe weather, damaging winds and the possibility of an isolated tornado, we're starting to see a little bit more in the way of some lightning associated with some of these cells, a little bit further towards the west but about midday we'll expect it to move across the region. Now I mentioned the two ingredients that pop up for the afternoon, that is the wind, interior sections of the northeast also into new England with wind gusts as high as 50 miles an hour,.

But don't be surprised once that frontal system passes in Washington, D.C., also in New York, you could see some wind gusts, but I don't think they'll last very long. One to two inches possible and there is some potential for minor beach erosion with a heavy or a strong astronomical tide.

High pressure dominates much of the nation's mid section and, Chris and Kate, looks like the Santa Ana winds die down in southern California.

BOLDUAN: All right. A lot to watch this week. Thanks so much, Karen.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, the stalemate in Washington -- gridlock with a lot at stake and the clock ticking away. We're talking to a top Senate Democrat about what it's going to take from his in perspective for a break-through.

CUOMO: Plus, we're learning more about the woman who terrified the nation's capital. Who was Miriam Carey and what led her to start that chase that ultimately cost her, her life? Carey's sisters join us in a few minutes.


BOLDUAN: All right, it is "Money Time," folks. And Alison Kosik is here to give a sense of why investors seem to have one word on their minds this morning, sell. Tell me more.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I see you don't have your seatbelt with you. If you did, I would say fasten it for today. It's going to be an interesting day. Stock futures right now is pointing sharply lower. The Dow looks like it's going to open in the triple digits lower. You know, this is the second week of the dysfunction happening in Washington, D.C. and it's certainly happening longer.

It's dragging on longer than Wall Street expected. So, investors don't seem to be too sweet on John Boehner's idea to an end for the shutdown, tying it to talks about the debt ceiling because the debt ceiling is going to be a bigger deal as far as Wall Street sees because if the U.S. can't pay its bills, that could cause interest rates to sky rocket, the stock market could tank.

Also, we've got earnings season kicking off this week. Company results, they are expected to be underwhelming. You know, economic growth has been lackluster. The job market is still muddling through, and analysts at this point are questioning this thing, hmm, are these stocks really worth the current prices knowing that profits are expected to be down for companies?

Also, you look at what investors are looking at when they decide how to trade. They look at the data coming in. Well, guess what? The jobs data, it didn't come in on Friday because the government is partially shut down. So, you've got Wall Street kind of operating kind of blind and not knowing really what to trade on except the headlines coming out of Washington.

BOLDUAN: And one thing we have been hearing, though, is unfortunately it may take the market reacting to get Congress to do anything because frustration amongst voters doesn't seem to be working.

KOSIK: Who knows, maybe today will be the day.

BOLDUAN: We can always be hopeful.


BOLDUAN: Thanks so much, Alison -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I'll tell you who knows, Senator Charles Schumer, that's who knows, senator from New York. Senator, thank you for joining us.


CUOMO: Appreciate it. Well, you know, if you're here in New York City, it's not the best designed. It's great to have you on set.

SCHUMER: But I'll come back and get clothes.

CUOMO: So you can get back there to the fight. Now, we had Speaker Boehner. He says, I don't have the votes for a clean bill, one that doesn't involve Obamacare just gets the government running again, do you believe that?

SCHUMER: I really don't. I re-issue my friendly challenge to Speaker Boehner, just put it on the floor. Let's see if we have the votes. There are 21 Republicans who publicly committed to voting for the bill that passed the Senate aided by 25 Republicans. So, you had a majority of Republicans, including some real conservatives voting for it, then there are probably another 40 or 50 who will vote for it even though they haven't said so publicly.

So, I have very little doubt that if Speaker Boehner put it on the floor, it would pass. I think the real reason he doesn't put it on the floor is that it would enrage the Tea Party. And the one point I wanted to make here, Chris, I saw the article yesterday in "New York Times." Anyone who thinks this government shutdown was an accident should read the "New York Times" article.

The Tea Party was planning to shut down the government almost a year and a half before it happened. The issue of Obamacare is almost incidental. The real issue is they have almost a principle that they wanted to shut down the government because they hate it so, and that's astounding.

So, anyone who thinks this is an accident that, oh, the president is equally to blame, oh no, the Tea Party planned this and very, very, very meticulously, and so far, successfully executed it, assuming that Speaker Boehner would go along with them which unfortunately was a correct assumption.

CUOMO: But fair to say, you are far from powerless, right? The Democrats have the power in the senate. you have a lot of persuasion in the House. You do seem to be sitting back and, quote, "enjoying" this. And now that we're getting closer to the deadline is the responsibility incumbent on your party to break this impasse?

SCHUMER: Let me tell you, we are not enjoying this. I mean, we care about government. I hear every day from people who are not getting paid, who are worried about layoffs. I mean, you can talk to the guy at the sandwich shop next to the Statue of Liberty, he's not selling any sandwiches. So, this is painful. And of course, it's painful even, you know, to all of us, our employees as well.

CUOMO: But you are known as someone who knows how to negotiate, who knows how to do the business of government. Right now, no one's even at the table, senator.

SCHUMER: Well, I have had a whole bunch of Republicans come over to me and say, look, this is bad. This shutdown is bad for either Republican Party, but even worse, they're principled people, bad for the country. How do we come to a compromise? And we are talking.

CUOMO: Good.

SCHUMER: The problem here is Speaker Boehner so far has been unwilling to break with the Tea Party, but let me make a prediction. When we get close to debt ceiling, he will have to break --

CUOMO: We are close, though.

SCHUMER: No, closer. The debt ceiling is such a calamitous possibility that you could go on to a recession or even a depression worse than Lehman Brothers and AIG in 2008.


CUOMO: -- that all these dooms day predictions about the credit ceiling are just that. You do know we're starting to hear more of that out of D.C. now that it's not going to be that bad. We did in 2011 and we wound up just fine. What's your reaction to that?

SCHUMER: Well, first 2011 wasn't just fine. The stock market lost 2,000 points. The economy slowed down, people lost jobs, but, it's much worse now, and why is that? Because the markets believe there's a real possibility. Let me just explain it. Banks have balance sheets. They hold different assets on those balance sheets, but caused the collapse which led to the deep recession in 2008.

They had housing securities on their balance sheets. They had to undervalue them. They had no money for lending. They have many more treasury securities on those balance sheets. If they have to write those down and they could write them down two days before the debt ceiling has to be raised, they could do it, you know, that day, the economy could collapse. Will it? No one's certain, but there's a high enough chance that no one, no one should risk it and no one should say I want my political agenda attached to it, otherwise, I will let it happen, whether it's cutting government spending, which we've done a great deal of. We've agreed to Speaker Boehner's number. We had a number $70 billion higher in spending.

We already agreed to his number and then he said we'll add Obamacare. Again, it goes back to the, I think, the idea that the Tea Party wanted to shut down and Speaker Boehner and the Republican leadership, thus far, in the House, not in the Senate, thank God, are going along with it.

CUOMO: Is it important enough to Democrats that you avoid the scenario you just outlined that even if it means more concessions, sitting back down at the table, getting a process going so you can at least optically show some progress for the other side, is your party willing to do that?

SCHUMER: Well --

CUOMO: Because right now, it seems like they're not.

SCHUMER: Obviously, we want to sit down and talk to them. But if they say, for instance, as they -- Boehner said on TV, repeal Obamacare or we're not dealing with the debt ceiling, that's an impossibility. You cannot negotiate with a hostage situation like that. You cannot negotiate with a gun to your head.

Here's this most important accomplishment of President Obama's, whether you like it or not. And they're saying get rid of it or will hurt America?

CUOMO: Right.

SCHUMER: It's a horrible situation.


SCHUMER: -- if do you it once, we came close to doing it in 2011, it doesn't go away. Like he doing it more and more and more and the government is totally paralyzed and America basically goes into a terrible, terrible downturn.

CUOMO: When you talk about Speaker Boehner and, hey, you should put that bill out and why aren't you, do you really believe that he is unable to lead on his own accord, that he really does have to listen to this small faction?

SCHUMER: Well, I'd like to compare him to the Republican leadership in the Senate, many of whom have Tea Party opponents, but they figured out a way to let our bill go forth. They didn't vote for Obamacare, they're against it.

But they at least said we're not going to shut down the government to get our way in 25 of the 44 Republicans when the bill came to the floor voted for a path to open the government. That showed some courage. Where is Speaker Boehner's? I hope he will summon the same.

CUOMO: As you get closer to that deadline though, you and your party, you're talking to each other about how, look, if we don't like what's going on here, we can't let this happen, because we're the ones outlining how bad it will be.

SCHUMER: You know, again, we do not want to but you cannot, you cannot negotiate under these situations because it gets worse. If there is some optics, as you said, that make it work, fine, but if they are to say after we've agreed to this number, agree to an even lower one.


CUOMO: How about the six-week deal?

SCHUMER: Cut more veterans --

CUOMO: How about the six-week deal? We'll fund for six weeks. Let's negotiate.

SCHUMER: Well, that will be up to the markets. I don't think it works. Let me tell you why. If the markets think we haven't solved this problem any day on a given day and the markets are sort of mystical things in a certain way, if those securities, those government securities start being undervalued, the thing could collapse even before we reach the debt ceiling.

So, if they think we're at an impasse, it makes it worse. Answer here. Do a clean debt ceiling. It's too dangerous not to and then we'll negotiate on a budget on any issues they want and they win a lot of those arguments. They've won them in the past. They even won -- you know, one, we conceded to them at the 988 number.

Now, so we gave in to them on the budget number and then there were more demands. That's what hostage -- that's what the Tea Party wants. They want the government to be shut down. Speaker Boehner has a responsibility to resist it. Not to come up with excuses, not to come up with deflections, we'll do this, we'll do that, but let the government be -- not default, let the government be funded, and then have the kind of negotiations that we've had -- this is different than in the last 220 years.

CUOMO: Senator Schumer, thank you very much for the perspective. Good luck down there.

SCHUMER: Great to be here.

CUOMO: We needed that. Let us know what you think. You tweet us. You know the hash tag, NEW DAY. Kate, over to you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much, Chris.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, Miriam Carey (ph) led police on a deadly car chase through our nation's capital. Questions remain though this morning as to why she drove into White House barriers and also towards the capital with her young daughter in the car. We're going to talk with her sisters and try to get some of the answers that you know that they're asking as well -- to the questions they're asking as well coming up.

And also head, how do you live through something like this, a terrifying crash leaving many wondering how did the driver survive? Well, he did and is expected to make a full recovery, the latest on that coming up.