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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Extreme Makeover, Government Edition; Poor Chris Brown?

Aired October 8, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight`s week two of the government shutdown, and it has escalated into a total national embarrassment. You know what I`m talking about.

This cancer-stricken woman. Take a look. She`s right -- not that one. Right there. She has become the face of this fiasco. She is now facing possible death because her clinical trial treatments have been put on hold. It`s stories like that that have Americans rising up saying enough is enough. Enough with the sleazification of Washington. That`s right, sleazification. Defined as the "Shady practices of politicians who care about power, money and fame and dubious philosophies but don`t care if its citizens live or die.

Since politicians refused to do their job, you and I are going to do it for them. Tonight, join me in a game of "Extreme Makeover, Government Edition."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. JON BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We would rather default on our debt than to sit down and negotiate.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The truth of the matter is there are enough Republican and Democrat votes in the House of Representatives right now to end the shutdown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t know how long you`ll be at home. You don`t know if we`ll even get back pay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s deplorable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They should all get a life, get out and do the job right.

(SFX: SIREN)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Complete idiots elected who will do absolutely nothing but hold our government hostage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Feel what the people feel. You know, put yourself in our shoes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A little while ago I hit the streets to see what Americans want to remodel first, given our "Extreme Makeover, Government Edition."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: With the government shutdown dragging on we`re doing an extreme government makeover. What room of government, what agency, program, habit would you remodel? I`m saying lobbyists. What about you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congress needs a total rehab.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re sending them to rehab. That`s a great idea. You`re sending all of the members of Congress to rehab?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love it. For an addiction to?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Corruption.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: An addiction to corruption. You are talking my language.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In truth I have so many areas of government I personally want to remodel, it`s hard for me to pick just one. It kind of feels like a tear down, doesn`t it?

But just to start it off, here`s the U.S. Department of Agriculture pushing bad food on the American public. How about the Interior Department allowing industry to pillage our natural resources? And then there is the Food and Drug Administration. All of these agencies are in bed with big business.

Get this: big pharma, the drug industry has more than two lobbyists for every single members of Congress. That`s why I say get rid of the lobbyists first. All right.

So what part of U.S. government, what agency do you want to remodel? Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Tonight we have a feisty Lion`s Den panel ready to do the work Congress refuses to do. Straight out to Jeanne Zaino, professor of political science at Iowa College, Huff Po contributor.

What area of government -- and shows us your sign -- do you want to hit with your remodel crew?

JEANNE ZAINO, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, IOWA COLLEGE: Hello, Jane.

I did the federal disability program, and I`ll tell you why. It is very quickly the first entitlement program in the United States government that may run out of money in two to three years, in large part due to corruption and poor oversight. This is what is frustrating people and scaring people about the Affordable Care Act, that we may be coming up to something like this with that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. I agree 100 percent. Federal disability programs need an extreme makeover ASAP. The Federal Disability Insurance Program, as you said, could go broke, and a lot of people believe it`s widespread fraud.

"Sixty Minutes" actually profiled an investigation that`s going on into people who fake, exaggerate and prolong their disabilities to get government money. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: If all these people are disabled that apply, I want them all to get it and then we need to figure out how we`re going to fund it. But my investigation tells me, and my common sense tells me that we`ve got a system that`s being gamed pretty big right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think? Last year the Federal Disability Insurance Program had a budget of $135 billion. That`s more than the government spent on homeland security, the Justice Department and the Labor Department combined.

I mean, John DePetro, radio talk show host, to me this is the kind of thing that 21st century technology could eliminate. You want disability payments? We`re going to track you, using your cell phone, and if you don`t want to participate, you don`t get the money.

JOHN DEPETRO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: That`s exactly right, Jane. Jane, how is it possible all these years later more and more people are becoming disabled? The workplace is safer than it`s ever been. Transportation is easier, exercise, everything. Obviously there`s massive fraud involved with the disability program.

ZAINO: And we should say it`s an increase of 20 percent over the last six years. And there`s no way that that is accounted for by disabled people. So it`s absolutely fraud and corruption that`s going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it`s plenty of lawyers who are profiting, as well.

Now, while some scam the government and get away with it, other Americans are literally risking death right now as we speak because of the shutdown. This 29-year-old mom with a rare cancer, she was supposed to start a trial treatment with the National Institutes of Health, but it`s all on hold because of the shutdown. Here`s what she told Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE LANGBEHN, CANCER PATIENT AFFECTED BY SHUTDOWN: This is a potential life-saving drug. And to be told that it`s going to be postponed because a decision hasn`t been made and the shutdown occurred was rather upsetting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, we`ve got career politicians playing with people`s lives. They play their games, their insider, inside-the-beltway games. This woman could die.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: That`s right. And it`s the working class and the middle class who are suffering from the shutdown and who will suffer even more if we fail to raise the debt ceiling. You know, the rich are going to be fine. The big companies are going to be fine. It`s the small businesses who work around the national parks who aren`t getting customers now. It`s people like that woman who are suffering from cancer.

I mean, what kind of a people are we if we`re allowing that woman to not get cancer treatment because Congress can`t get their act together?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s your sign? What`s your sign, Lisa Bloom? Hold up your sign.

BLOOM: OK. My sign is the Obama care software glitch, let`s fix it. Obama care is fantastic. It should go farther than it does. But when we start off with a software glitch where people feel that they don`t have confidence in the system, it`s off to a rocky start. So let`s fix that, and let`s get people signed up for the health care they need.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my take. This whole shutdown is about Obama care. But in my opinion, Obama care is really not the main health care issue that we face as a country. You know what the real problem is? It`s the very, very sorry state of the health of Americans.

Two thirds of Americans are overweight or obese, leading to massive cases of heart disease, stroke, Type II diabetes and even cancer. It`s all costing hundreds of billions of dollars.

Now, the U.S. government has played a starring role in creating the obesity crisis by subsidizing bad food and failing to support organic fruits and vegetables in any meaningful way. So you know what I say? Cut the subsidies to big ag. Cut the subsidies to big food, and we could all afford Obama care with ease, because our collective medical costs would plummet.

OK. This is how we have to start thinking different. And I`ll go to John Iadarola, the host of the Young Turks network. We have to get rid of the stranglehold big industry has on our government.

JOHN IADAROLA, HOST, YOUNG TURKS NETWORK: Yes. You know, my sign is for the EPA. Higher requirements for There really there have been some good moves in the last couple of years, right now the EPA and other organizations are debating what regulations we should have on the current coal fired plant. And the lobbyists are swarming all over Washington and I don`t know what we can expect to come out of this. As parent as these other issues are if we continue to allow the globe to boil over, allow a new wave of resource war to sleep across Africa, across Asia. I don`t know how, in the next few decades." We`re going to deal with...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your bottom line is that you`re saying government is controlled by corporations, and I believe so. Your concern as talk radio host, you want capitalism, but if government is in bed what all of the agencies, isn`t that corporate socialism where taxpayers inspiration.

Right now, I don`t know what the young Turk is talking about. I mean, global warming of the countries. We have problem right now in our own country. I have -- and I feel like Team Braeburn on Matt`s team stat, and that is abuse and fraud that`s going on with these EBT cards. And this is something that`s reaching in every community of the country. There`s too much fraud, 75 billion in welfare. People unable to feed themselves.

Jane, it is time for people to get back to work were start providing for themselves, get private enterprise or charities involved. The government cannot be responsible for feeding all these people. The numbers just keep exploding every year. We`re running a national soup kitchen for people. We can`t afford it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I sort of disagree with you; I sort of agree with you. Lisa Bloom, isn`t there a way to make Food Stamps a vehicle for help as opposed to more bad food?

BLOOM: I would like to think so and I agree with all of your observations. We have way too subsidies for the meat industry when we all know how damaging meat is for our health and for the planet.

I would challenge you about climate change. You think it`s a problem only in other countries. What planet do you think we live on? We live on the same planet they do. We have the same rising sea levels. We have the same problems like New York that were recently devastated by a hurricane. We`re going to see a lot more extreme weather. Climate change continues. Climate change should be our No. 1 priority.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, John DePetro, you say climate change is some other country`s problem. We`re the ones having all the storms. We`ve got half of Texas on fire in the summertime. You`ve got Colorado drowning in floods. You`ve got New York with Hurricane Sandy. I mean, don`t you think that that has something to do with climate change?

DEPETRO: Jane, right now with the government shutdown, if you`re unemployed people need to get back to work. Cut the spending. You don`t care if it`s raining or a blizzard in another country. You just care about what`s going on right here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you do. Because if your entire home is destroyed by that blizzard or that flood, you don`t have a home anymore. So all of the stuff you worked to acquire, it`s gone down the river in the flood. Wouldn`t it be better to make some minor changes in our life styles rather than having all of our homes destroyed?

DEPETRO: Right now that is not something the average American can control.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to take a short break. We`ve got your calls on the other side. What you want to remodel?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s childish that two parties cannot handle what`s really going on. They look like two kids in the street right now. Like, we`re not on the playground. This is not elementary school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What message would you send to them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get it handled, and get it handled now. Done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don`t participate in certain elections, it turns out that you will have, you know -- I was about to use a bad word -- you will have complete idiots elect who had will do absolutely nothing but hold our government hostage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a great issue with the idea of a career politician. It`s the one thing that I think our forefathers never contemplated, and it is what has brought our system down, bit by bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s the law of unintended consequences. A populous revolt is emerging. It`s sleazification. Let`s completely remodel our government.

Straight out to the phone lines. Ron, Iowa, what do you want to change about this government of ours?

CALLER: Jane, I love your show. Well, the big money people that planned this shutdown, can`t we do something about controlling that? When does their free speech become screaming in our ears, you know?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, you`re talking about money. Money is a huge issue, and it is looming on the horizon next Thursday. How embarrassing is this? The U.S. government is now getting spanked and scolded by China and Japan. The hold trillions of dollars of our debt, and they`re warning us, get it together and avoid running out of money next Thursday. Pay the interest on the debt we owe them or else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The effects of any failure to repay the debt would be felt right away, leading to potentially major disruptions in financial markets both in the United States and Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Lisa Bloom, we`ve given Japan and China so much power along with letting China make most of the stuff we buy, buying most of their stuff. They hold our loans just like a bank holds a mortgage. If we don`t pay them, this could be catastrophic. We could lose our place in the world, Lisa.

BLOOM: And let`s remember where most of this debt came from. It came from two very long wars that we`ve been involved in in the last ten or 12 years that have been so expensive that it cost up to a trillion dollars a year.

I hope this is a cautionary tale for us going forward the next time we try to get involved overseas somewhere where we don`t belong.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think, Jon DePetro, you talk about cutting Food Stamps, but really, that is a pittance compared to the money we spend in our military, which is a huge bureaucracy. And remember, it was General Eisenhower, a conservative, who warned the coined the term military industrial complex.

DEPETRO: But, Jane, right now, the United States we always have to protect ourselves, we were attacked. We still have incidents of terrorism. The military is not the area that we need to cut.

If anything, what is a sin and what is horrendous is what our veterans are going through, how veterans benefits are not being utilized during this government shutdown.

And Jane, what I find so despicable and why the American people are so fed up is right now the president and the speaker are not even in the same room speaking. Jane, how sad is it the president of the United States called Speaker Boehner on the phone?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but that`s part of the game.

DEPETRO: They`re not sitting down to work it out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me get to this point that was mentioned about the military industrial complex. Here is my rant.

DEPETRO: You`ve got to start cutting...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Government is so inefficient, because it`s often massive and unmanageable, a bureaucracy. The Navy Yard shooting where 12 Americans were killed, exhibit A. "The New York Times" now reporting the mother of Aaron Alexis, the shooter, told his bosses a month before that shooting her son had a history of paranoia and most likely needed therapy. But his managers at The Experts, a sub-subcontractor, kept him on the job, did not require him getting treatment.

That sub-subcontractor worked for the subcontractor Hewlett Packard, which in turn works for the military.

After the tragedy HP decided The Experts mishandled the problem; fired that corporation. But The Experts say HP was fully aware of this guy`s problems. Isn`t that a perfect illustration of a bureaucracy that`s too sprawling and out of control? And I`ll throw it to the political science professor, Jeanne Vaino.

VAINO: Yes. Jane, you absolutely hit it on the point. I mean, that`s absolutely the issues. And I think what you have brought up here, the issue Ron brought up on the phone, the issues of the speakers you talked to on the street. It`s an issue of the way in which you administer government that bothers people.

You know, listen, if the Internet was working and people could sign on to the Affordable Care Act, as Lisa Bloom mentioned, people would be happy to go on if they knew program was going to be well-administered.

You know, disability payments are important to people who are disabled. You don`t want to be giving them to 25 percent, according to Senator Coburn, of people who were not disabled and then running the program into the ground.

And the case you mentioned. You know, when you have a government that`s this big and this out of control, that impacts the ability of government to do what it does best.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: John, this is not Democrat or Republican. This is an idea of efficiency, bringing the 21st century, just like newspapers have changed and shopping has changed. Everything has changed because of the Internet, but it seems like the government hasn`t.

DEPETRO: Yes, well, I think that it has changed in some ways but not in good ways. I mean, the fact that we have this shutdown showdown going on right now, this is not how you`re supposed to run the government.

You want to debate the budget? You debate the budget when you debate the budget, not when you`re passing these C.R.s to continue basic funding of the government. They had a chance. The Republicans had a chance to have Mitt Romney`s agenda put into play, and that was during the election which they lost.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me just say this. What I can say, knowing a little bit about the 12 steps, is that, even if somebody else is 90 percent wrong you`re probably 10 percent wrong.

And if everybody owned their side of the street, then there would be a way to turn this embarrassment into a positive for the United States, a way to really have both sides keep their side of the street clean. And it`s not necessarily about concessions. It`s about using this as an opportunity for positive change.

You know, you could give the Republicans something and improve the efficiency of certain agencies and get rid, for example, of out-of-date agencies like the post office. Or severely curtail them. Or put them into the 21st Century, and maybe that`s just the little handout that the other side needs to claim victory or at least to save face. There is an opportunity here.

Something has to be done differently.

On the other side, one man in a coffee shop got more than a caffeine boost. This is a video you must, must, must see. It`s a mind blower. Literally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gosh, I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s ruined all of my stuff!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get some napkins, clean it up. It will be fine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fine? There`s coffee inside of my computer. You know what? Just get away from me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Would you like your cup of coffee with a side of supernatural? Well you`ve gotten your wish. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAPHIC: `Snice Coffee Shop, NYC.

A fake wall is put up.

A stuntman is lifted up the wall.

Tables and chairs are remote controlled.

Pictures and books are spring loaded.

Actors are seated inside.

Time to F**K with some customers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. Can I get a small coffee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That sucks, I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just ruined all of my stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get some napkins, clean it up. It will be fine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fine? There`s coffee inside of my computer. You know what, just get away from me. Just get away from me. Just get out of my way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my god.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get away from me. Get away from me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my god. Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(SCREAMING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

GRAPHIC: Carrie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How`s that for a fun time at the coffee shop?

Up next, superstar Chris Brown once apologized for brutally beating the you-know-what out of his then-girlfriend, Rihanna. You remember the mug shot. Well it seems like is he taking it all back now? You decide. We`ll tell you what he says next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brown was arrested for assaulting Rihanna the day before the Grammy awards.

CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: What was I thinking? What is wrong with you?

I guess that night, it`s just one of those nights I wish I could take back and I really regret and I feel totally ashamed of what I did.

But my fans, they still love me. They support me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight has Hollywood bad boy Chris Brown not learned a single thing? It seems he hasn`t.

In an outrageous new interview the singer talks about the quote, "Rihanna incident" and says that he`s not a violent man and then he proceeds to complain about the fact that he brutally attacked his ex-girlfriend and that has actually interfered with his rise to world fame.

Are you kidding me? He`s trying to play the victim here? Come on.

It was four years ago when this photo showed superstar, Rihanna, beaten to a pulp. Chris Brown was arrested. He pleaded guilty to assault, to the violent attack.

So tonight it really seems like he`s trying to turn the tables and say "I`m the victim because I viciously beat Rihanna." Guess what -- you`re the perpetrator, Chris.

Now it seems like he`s taking back his very public apology to Rihanna.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I wish I had the chance to live those few moments again. But unfortunately I can`t. I cannot go into what happened and most importantly I`m not going to sit here and make any excuses.

I take great pride in me being able to exercise self-control and what I did was inexcusable. I`m very sad and very ashamed of what I`ve done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, never mind he`s taking it all back now. The remorse seems to have gone away and now he`s filled with self-pity and resentment over the whole situation. Brown told "The Guardian," "I`m a walking art piece -- just a ball of creativity." And if it weren`t for his assault on Rihanna he would now be, quote, "bigger than life."

Are you -- are you serious? You`re upset because the beating that you inflicted on Rihanna was a stumbling block in your career? Sounds like a pity party to me.

Straight out to our fantastic and feisty "Lion`s Den"; I got to start with Jawn Murray, editor-in-chief, alwaysalist.com. Look, he`s a talented. I`m a fan of his music. But the arrogance to say something like that, I just think that really he`s blaming the victim.

JAWN MURRAY, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, ALWAYSALIST.COM: Well Jane, I think the sound bites are being taken out of context. I read the entire article. And he`s definitely saying that he should not have done what he did to Rihanna. He`s saying that the anger management and all that he learned after the assault on Rihanna has taught him that he needed to be more mature and be more adult-like in the way he handle things and he should not be violent.

But there was a specific question asked that he answered, had that incident did not happen does he think he would be a bigger artist. And to that he said he thinks he would be larger than life because of his talent.

So putting it in context he did say it but not framed in the capacity in which the headlines claimed that it was.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know. Listen. Here`s the fact. Chris was convicted for beating Rihanna. And it was a bad beating -- we all saw the mug shots. Now he managed to skate out of court with only probation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remember, even though you have probation, this is a felony and it does come with the potential of state prison if you should violate in any way the terms and conditions of this probation or pick up any new case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Chris told the UK "Guardian" the system was picking on him, quote, "They want me to be the example. Young black kids don`t have the fairer chances. You can see Lindsay Lohan in and out of court every day, you see Charlie Sheen, whoever else, they do what they want to do."

Lindsay Lohan, I agree that should have done some serious time. I said that a million times on my show. She could have hurt a lot of people with her DUIs. Charlie Sheen also should have done time. He pulled a knife on somebody.

Straight out to the "Lion`s Den"; but here`s the thing, Michael Billy, television and radio host -- he also, Chris Brown also did not do hard time and so he is also a member of the elite who skated.

MICHAEL BILLY, TELEVISION AND RADIO HOST: Yes. I mean to pull the race card on this to mention blacks -- look, he`s not everyday American black kid. I mean he`s a superstar. He`s a Hollywood guy. If ever he`s been mistreated, it`s because of Hollywood.

This article -- by the way, I read the entire thing and in context it reads of a guy who`s nowhere near maturity level. He`s a child by all means necessary. It reeks throughout the entire interview somebody who doesn`t want to take responsibility for what he did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.

Yes. And listen, I have never felt sorry for Chris Brown. I`ve admired his talent. But this quote of his really annoyed me.

However, I started thinking about it. He had a very rough childhood. He had spoken out about the domestic violence he grew up watching. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: As many of you know I grew up in a home where there was domestic violence and I saw firsthand what uncontrolled rage could do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, shockingly he`s confessed that he lost his virginity at eight years of age. He was eight years old and he had sex with a 14 or 15-year-old girl.

He says, quote, "We were already kind of like hot to trot so at eight being able to do it, it kind of preps you for the long run so you can be a beast at it. You can be the best at it," end quote.

Lisa Bloom, Chris having sex at eight years old doesn`t make you a beast -- Lisa Bloom of Avo.com, an incredible site. It makes you a victim of sexual abuse.

LISA BLOOM, AVO.COM: Yes, I agree with that. And I`m sorry that he had a tough childhood. But it`s time for him to be a man. He`s what -- 24, 25 years old? As long as you`re blaming mommy and daddy, you`re still a child. Once you assume manhood, you assume responsibility. And that`s in my book "Swagger" where I talk about Chris Brown and other men like him who have a lot of swagger, who have a lot of self-confidence but don`t really have much to back it up.

He is an incredible artist. But as far as how he`s maintained himself as an adult man, he`s shown no respect for women. After his conviction for assaulting Rihanna, he`s rapping and singing about abusing women. And how about a year ago, getting a tattoo on his neck of the battered face of a woman? I mean this is a man who still does not get it.

MURRAY: That`s not what the tattoo was, Lisa.

BLOOM: He still does not have respect.

MURRAY: That`s not what the tattoo was, Lisa.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jawn?

(CROSSTALK)

MURRAY: The tattoo was -- we talked about this on this very show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. First, Jawn.

MURRAY: Let`s be clear here. Let`s be clear here.

I make no apologies for Chris Brown. I make no exceptions for domestic violence. What he did was unquestionably wrong. There were some childhood issues. Losing his virginity at eight years old, growing up on domestic violence, the kid needs and continues to need intense counseling.

However, the fact is still the fact. The tattoo is of a Latin piece of art that we talked about here on the show and cleared that up a long time ago.

BILLY: Who cares about the tattoo?

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Michael Billy.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Michael Billy.

BILLY: All right. Forget about the tattoo. Let`s forget about that. Just pick any one of the situations where he`s acted irresponsible, immature, violent, an aggressor and he blames race, he blames his parents, he blames Hollywood and the paparazzi but no not Chris Brown, not at all. It`s got to be everybody else but him.

I don`t buy it. Look, a lot of people have troubled childhoods but they don`t end up like this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look -

MURRAY: Some of them end up worse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sorry. It`s not that you lose your virginity at age eight -- it`s rape, ok. That is not the same thing. And I think that fundamentally he is in deep denial about his experience and this is why he`s spinning everything because he hasn`t come to terms with the emotional abuse that he experienced as a child.

And I have to say this, Chris Brown is not the only one raising eyebrows. A year after Rihanna was beaten to a pulp by him, she teams up with M&M on a song that shocks because it seems to glorify domestic violence.

Check out the music video from Aftermath Records. Listen very carefully to these lyrics.

(MUSIC)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, "love the way it hurts"? I think I heard that right -- Lisa Bloom.

Well, then there`s the S&M video that she did, you know. I mean -- and then she`s got "Pour it Up" her most recent video she`s dancing like a stripper naked on a pole, rolling around, money is being thrown on her. I mean that is messed up when you`ve been beaten to a pulp and you`re somebody the entire world, including a lot of young girls, want to imitate.

BLOOM: I think it`s different. First of all, she was the victim, he was the perpetrator. I don`t judge them the same. He`s the one that committed the crime. She`s the one that had to live through being punched in the face, choked almost to the point of asphyxiation. That`s what she said in the police report. That`s what he pleaded guilty to.

So she wasn`t actually burned. She wasn`t lied to by Chris Brown as far as we know. That`s what she`s singing about in that song. So I`m going to put that all aside as artistic metaphor.

But listen, I read that entire "Guardian" interview too. He was given the chance three times to respond to the issue of the tattoo of a beaten woman on his neck that looks a lot like the Rihanna beaten woman photo and he never responded that it was a piece of Latin art or anything else. He hemmed and hawed and really had no answer for it.

And even if it is based on a piece of art, you`re convicted for beating this beautiful, talented woman and you get the tattoo of a woman on your neck who`s beaten? There`s something seriously wrong with you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, there`s also the issue of bragging about how many women you`ve slept with. I`m talking some of these stars are talking in the thousands. Are you kidding me?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, I have to say I guess that night is just one of them nights I wish I could take back and I really regret and I feel totally ashamed of what I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now for your "Crazy Video of the Night." Cops on the hunt for a man who tried to rob a New York deli: the man who pulled a gun on the clerk who then pulled out a machete. Yes, a machete. The brave clerk chased this crook away through the parking lot with his giant blade. Wow - - that`s what I call showing up to work prepared.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I want the make it absolutely clear. I admire Chris Brown as an artist. I think he`s incredibly talented -- incredibly talented. He`s a brilliant musician and a brilliant performer. His new hit "Love War" is all over the radio to wit.

(MUSIC)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But sometimes with fame, well, the whole sex appeal thing can get out of hand. Chris Brown wouldn`t tell the newspaper how many women he`s slept with but he basically said it`s too many to count. Quote, "You know how Prince had a lot of girls back in day? Prince is like the guy, today I`m just that. But most women won`t have any complaints if they`ve been with me," end quote.

Now certainly he`s not the first actor to brag about sexual conquests. Actor Charlie Sheen is bragging about sleeping with about 5,000 different women. Basketball star Wilt Chamberlain claims to have had sex with 20,000 different women.

I`m sorry. Jawn Murray, it`s just gross to me. Why is there such a double standard? A woman could sleep with two or three or four guys and gets called a slut but men are still, in this day and age, in the 21st century bragging about they`ve slept with so many women they can`t even count them anymore?

MURRAY: I agree with you. I think it is a gross double standard. And let me be honest, in a perfect world for me Chris Brown wouldn`t do any more interviews. It seems like every time he opens his mouth he gets himself deeper in trouble. I think he`s the ideal candidate for the next season of Iyanla Vanzant`s "Fix My Life." He needs to go in there and work through some issue.

He is a talented guy. We like the art. But he`s a troubled kid who needs intense counseling. And if he doesn`t get it he`s going to go in a way that`s going to lead to more destruction. It`s scary to me, it really is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You took the words out of my mouth be here`s my take. Chris Brown is -- I`ll call him a musical genius -- let`s give him that. The thing is he has very severe problems because he was sexual abused as a child and then he saw beatings in his household and then he acted out those beatings on his then-girlfriend Rihanna.

The lesson should not be Chris -- oh this is interfering with my career. The lesson should be -- I was in denial about the depths of my emotional issues. I really need to keep getting help. I need to go to therapy. I need to work through my problems and grow as a person to the point where I can really come to terms with some hideous behavior. I need to stop justifying, minimizing, rationalizing my actions.

Ok. That`s your goal, Chris Brown. Because if you really want to become king of all Hollywood and the bigger superstar in the world, the first step is to admit you`ve got a problem, ok, and the full extent of it. Then you can start changing and then I think you`ll see the superstardom that you so desperately covet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet of the Day." Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane.

Perry -- oh, what are you doing hanging out? It`s almost 8:00. Frankie, look at you? You`ve got a museum piece in your honor. Burt says it`s my birthday and I`ll munch on this cake if I want to. Natalie, Coco, Jack and Jackson say "We`re hanging. We`re a party. We`re ready to be a pack and we like it." You are fabulous. What a fabulous pack. Reminds me of my little --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. I`m ticked off. Here`s why. I was in a flight from L.A. to New York, and the person sitting next to me was coughing with their mouth open for the duration of the flight. And it freaked me out, because I really don`t want to get sick. I don`t feel like I can afford to get the flu for a long period of time.

So it was like, "ah, ah, ah." And I didn`t know what to do. I was trying to signal non-verbally because I didn`t want a confrontation. So I was like -- that`s what I did every time this person coughed. I was -- trying to give the message non-verbally, but it didn`t work.

Six hours of enduring coughing, not knowing whether I would walk off that plane with the flu. So I decided to come out here and find out what should I have done to take care of the situation?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could have at least mailed him your medical bill, and --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ooh. I love it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could have mailed him your medical bill and be, like, you`re going to pay this in full.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before the collection agency gets to me. You dig?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m still reeling with my near-death brush with the flu because of somebody I sat next to -- have you had that kind of experience?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, this morning. I was sitting on the train and some guy came over to me, sat right next to me and just coughed right at me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did you -- how did you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dirty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You felt dirty?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt gross. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you feel violated?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely. Like, he was in my personal space. I was just trying to go to school.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And coughing in your face in your personal space -- that sounds like we have a rap song. We`re very close to a rap song.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Coughing in my face, you`re in my space get out of my face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was on the bus, commuting home. This guy was coughing all over me and I was furious because I`m thinking to myself it`s flu season. He`s coughing on me, I`m going to get whatever he, you know, he has. So I was trying to subtly hint to him that, you know, this is not ok. You should be staying home and not infecting the rest of us by, you know, moving away or turning my head every time he coughed. But I don`t think he got the memo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think silence is the loudest cry. I always think you should always speak your mind.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I usually do. I don`t know what happened to me.

The point is it`s rude. It`s rude, disrespectful, and just clueless to cough with your mouth open any place, but especially on a packed flight when somebody is trapped in the window seat, and really can`t do anything about it. I couldn`t move. I felt very helpless, very frustrated, very angry.

But I kept it together. Kept it together, and here I am, and guess what? I didn`t get sick. Or should I say, I didn`t get sick -- yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I saw a video that is just so amazing I had to share it with you, and I`d like to you take a look at this amazing scene. It`s a horse cozying up to a cameraman during a TV shoot in Chile. Eventually he begins to nibble on the cameraman`s ear.

And look at that -- look at the love between an animal and a human being. He is reaching over this horse in order to basically rest his snout on this man`s shoulder. He was doing a very good job of keeping the camera steady during this extraordinary experience, and, to me this is just an example -- look at those eyes -- of how horses are so filled with love and innocence.

And right now as we speak 50,000 horses are sitting broiling in government holding pens with no space to move, and we can`t even get a straight answer from the Interior Department about what the Secretary of the Interior, Sally Jewell, ultimately plans to do with those 50,000 horses, even though someone has offered to take them and put them in a sanctuary.

That`s an example of government inefficiency, bureaucracy and misuse of power. Interior Department, we have been trying to reach you for months. Tell us what you are going to do with those wild horses. We`re not going to stop asking that question.

"NANCY GRACE" is next.

END