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New: Ariel Castro`s Death; New Details of Kidnap Ordeal
Aired October 10, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, hear from Hannah Anderson herself about her kidnapping -- handcuffed, drugged, forced to play Russian roulette, and her brother`s cries for help.
Plus, the drug addict dad who tried to kill his 4-year-old son with heroin. Does he have any remorse?
Behavior bureau looks at this bizarre story.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host, Samantha Schacher, social commentator, and host of Pop Trigger on the Young Turks Network.
We`ve got breaking news tonight. Cleveland kidnapper Ariel Castro may not have intentionally committed suicide, but died by accident as a result of something called to auto erotic asphyxiation.
Castro was found last month, I think everyone knows, hanging from a bed sheet that was attached to a hinge on the window of his cell. They are now reporting that apparently his pants and underwear were pulled down to his ankles. Prison officials also found a bible and pictures of his family that he arranged. The investigation into Castro`s death also found that two prison guards did not perform their required checks on his cell and may have falsified records.
Joining us tonight: Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal", and Loni Coombs, former prosecutor and author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Patients Tell."
So, here is what we know. I`m going to have you guys all respond to this. Ariel Castro found hanging in his cell, pants down, Bible open to chapter 3, I believe. Pictures of his family laid out in front of him. John Chapter 3. Pictures of his family laid out in front of him, and no suicide note.
Danine, are we jumping to the right conclusion here?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I don`t know, Dr. Drew. To me the fact that he had his pants down, OK, that goes a little bit to his sexual deviation and all that stuff we have going on. But that he had his family pictures laid out kind of goes to something else.
MANETTE: So, it does seem like it`s more of a suicide situation because it`s as though he`s making a statement. What I`m not surprised about, though, is that nobody was checking on him during that time period. That`s not what I`m surprised about.
PINSKY: Mark, what do you got?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Well, Danine is absolutely right. To me the issue is that guards weren`t watching him. While I could care less about him not being on this earth any longer, the same attention would be given to other inmates and I`m concerned about that.
But I got to say something, Drew, candidly, I feel like Tom Hanks in "Big" when he doesn`t understand why the skyscraper somehow turning into a robot is really cool. like I don`t get it. Here`s what I don`t get. Why do we care how this guy died?
I don`t mean to stop the discussion here. But why do we care?
PINSKY: Well, it just goes to -- sort of a bizarre conclusion of the chapter, the final chapter of the story of this horrible man`s life. We as humans like stories and we found out there`s an epilog. It didn`t end the way we thought.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Well, not only that. I mean, is this disgusting --
EIGLARSH: Got it.
SCHACHER: -- he potentially died of masturbation given what we know about him and what he did to these girls?
EIGLARSH: Yes. I mean, I think that adds, Wendy. But comment here on this, because let`s help people understand. Auto erotic asphyxiation where people tie something around their neck, secure it and lean into it when they`re doing this self-stimulation and it is people that are sex addicts, opiate addicts, people who have trauma that sort of need that level of stimulation in order to have any satisfaction.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: It actually gives them another level of arousal, as they are depriving their brain of some level of oxygen. There`s sort of a high heady feeling that they get.
You know, I think we`re fascinated by this because we`re always fascinated with criminal minds. Why? How? When? Why is he doing it?
And looking at this thing, I`m not entirely convinced that it was auto asphyxiation from arousal. I think he -- you know, how often do you jerk off to a bible and pictures of your family?
SCHACHER: I agree.
EIGLARSH: Can you say that?
EIGLARSH: Is that proper term? Really?
PINSKY: Loni, bring us back here. What do you say?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, I agree. I don`t think this is auto asphyxiation, erotic asphyxiation. And maybe I`m just a suspicious person here on the panel. But I`m not ready to say this wasn`t foul play going on here. I mean, look, we know the guards weren`t doing checkups like they were supposed to be doing.
They even falsified the documents. The prison population has their own judgment system and what Ariel Castro did put him at the bottom of the heap as far as, you know, the disdain of the other prisoners. I really think that someone hanging naked in front of pictures of his family to me looks like -- and then the stories of God will be your judgment, right?
To me, I think there might have been something else going on here.
SCHACHER: That`s very Dexter like.
EIGLARSH: Little Dexter? Anybody feeling a Dexter vibe?
COOMBS: And one other interesting thing, Dr. Drew, is that day, he met with the warden and was going to be put into what was called protective control and was very happy about that. Don`t see that as somebody that`s going to commit suicide. It would make it harder for someone else to have access to him to maybe give him the demise that they thought was appropriate.
PINSKY: So, I want to make sure I get what you`re saying, Loni. You`re saying that someone may have sort of staged this whole thing as an ultimate way of shaming and --
PINSKY: Yes. Well -- Mark, now maybe you care about how he died because all of a sudden it starts to feel OK. That`s crazy. But it`s like, it`s awful. But, oh, justice. OK. Jailhouse justice.
EIGLARSH: Yes, I`m curious whether there had been any access to him from the other inmates. That`s the first question.
PINSKY: You wonder if these apparent -- you wonder if these apparent -- the guards falsifying records whether they were doing that as a way of allowing someone -- very strange.
All right. I want to play you guys a piece of tape from Castro`s last appearance in court where he seemed to be trying to justify his despicable behavior. But you get a glimpse at exactly how depraved this guy is and it speaks to maybe this guy potentially was engaged in this autoerotic behavior. Let`s watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIEL CASTRO: I`m a happy person inside. I was a victim of sex acts when I was a child. These people are trying to paint me as a monster. I`m not a monster. I`m sick. I believe I am addicted of porn. I continue to practice the art of masturbation and pornography, two to three hours a day nonstop. When I finish I would just collapse right there.
When I got up that day, I didn`t say I am going to get up and try and find some women. It wasn`t my character. This job is too stressful. I just couldn`t juggle both of them. I do have value of human life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, yes, sure you do, my friend.
But, Wendy -- Mark, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: Well, listen, to strengthen the argument that he was actually engaged in the act, I wouldn`t use the phrase that Wendy used, that he was pleasuring himself, if he was an addict, which it appears that he is, by definition, he`s powerless over his control of his actions of doing this.
PINSKY: That`s right.
EIGLARSH: So you wouldn`t think it would stop merely because he`s in jail.
PINSKY: That`s absolutely right. And, in fact, Wendy, as you and I both were saying, if he really is a sex addict, and addicted to masturbation per se, it would continue. And because he doesn`t have access to he was saying he used porn all the time, he would be looking for other means to get a thrill.
WALSH: Right. He might be trying to take it to another level. I mean, the thing about pornography if you have seen the great movie "Don Jon" out there, is such a good message at the end, but you have to watch a lot of porn to get there. It does talk about how it takes a man`s ability to fantasize. It actually disables their brain.
So, here -- he`s now been taken away from his drug, his drugs including his three victims of course. And all of the pornography he`s probably been consuming. And now, he`s got to heighten his arousal another way. So, this lends to the argument that maybe it was autoerotic asphyxiation.
PINSK: Yes, yes, Danine?
MANETTE: I want to go back to this could be a setup. This was a high profile case. It had not been adjudicated very long ago. So, there was a lot of eyes on this.
There isn`t a prison guard that would have put their job in jeopardy to set up something for somebody else to have come in there and mess with this guy. He had no access to other prisoners.
PINSKY: He`s saying no to that.
MANETTE: So, I`m saying no to that, doesn`t make any sense.
PINSKY: All right. We`re going to leave it there. It`s going to be a little bit of a mystery.
Let me just take a poll here. How many people believe that he actually was engaged in this autoerotic asphyxiation? Even though there`s questions and business of the family and bible and maybe the guards were involved, show of hands. How many people actually thinks he did this, auto erotic asphyxiation? One, two.
Wendy, not you?
WALSH: No, I`m thinking murder. I saw the "Shawshank Redemption." There`s stuff that goes on in prison.
COOMBS: Thank you, Wendy.
WASLH: I like Loni`s conspiracy theory.
PINSKY: All right. Well, there you go. We`ll leave it at that. It`s the men against the women here, interestingly. That`s -- maybe, Mark, we just know how men are.
Up next --
SCHACHER: Oh, wow.
PINSKY: I`m just saying.
PINSKY: We`re going to change. We`re going to shift into a whole different gear here. We`re going to talk about Hannah Anderson. She`d been apparently handcuffed, drugged and forced to play Russian roulette. She opens up about her kidnapping ordeal.
And later in the show, more on the man who tried to kill his 4-year- old son by injecting him with heroin.
Don`t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several states on high alert this morning after possible sightings of the blue Nissan Versa driven by James DiMaggio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve taken everything. The damage is done. Just let my daughter go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixteen-year-old Hannah Anderson recuperating from a hellish experience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This deceptive traitor, James Lee DiMaggio, is a mass murderer, kidnapper, torturer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hannah became involved with DiMaggio in a consensual relationship after he seduced her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I get this feeling that it`s not as cut and dry as it seemed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As for my daughter, the healing process will be slow. She has been through a tremendous, horrific ordeal.
PINSKY: Welcome back.
Co-host is Samantha Schacher.
And that`s some of the details, or some of the questions that lingered about Hannah and her detail. And tonight, we are hearing intimate details from the 16-year-old kidnap survivor. For the first time, Hannah Anderson opens up about this relationship with this, let`s call him an abductor, the best thing I can call him, James DiMaggio.
Back with us, Mark and Loni, and joining us, Danny Cevallos, attorney and CNN analyst. Also, Anahita Sedaghatfar, also an attorney.
Hannah spoke to NBC`s "Today" show about something that this man called a reported crush the 40-year-old James DiMaggio had on her. Take a look at this, guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANNAH ANDERSON: I had always wanted to bring my friend up to his house because we would always play games there and stuff, and he would get really upset that it was a boy. He said it`s not that I don`t want your friends up here. It`s that I don`t want to see you kissing your friends or anything like that because I have a crush on you. Not a crush that, like, feeling a crush as in family, like I care about you. It kind of seemed like really weird.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kind of try to keep your distance a little bit more?
ANDERSON: Yes, exactly. He got upset about that. He would always text me and say that I was rude and that I was trying to stay out of his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. Loni, what do we do with this? This is just bizarre.
COOMBS: You know, I feel for her. As soon as you hear that word crush, it`s just not right. As a mother all my antennas go up. You cannot turn that word around to be an appropriate word for a 40 year old to say to a young woman like that. She was absolutely right to start distancing herself.
And then, you know, he got so angry like a spurned lover. I mean, all of her antenna were working correctly. And I just it breaks my heart that she didn`t couldn`t tell her mother or her father.
PINSKY: Right, yes.
COOMBS: Because something might have been done if she`d just been able to say, hey, mom, do you think it`s OK that he said he had a crush on me? That made me nervous.
PINSKY: Something to be learned here for other young women. If you have an instinct that doesn`t feel right, you tell an adult. Hopefully, your parents.
SCHACHER: Absolutely. It`s such a shame she didn`t feel confident enough to go to them. And listen, I get it because this was her Uncle Jim. But most often times, it`s somebody that`s close to the family or even within the family. So, the parents really need to reiterate that their children can go to them no matter what.
PINSKY: Anahita, you got a reaction to this?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Yes, I mean, Dr. Drew, I don`t even use the word crush, OK? So, to hear that this 40 year old sicko used that word to describe his feelings for a teenager makes me sick. And I think it really should clear any doubt that anyone had that Hannah Anderson was anything other than a victim, a victim of this creepy guy.
SEDAGHATFAR: So to hear today some of the criticism that people are making towards her.
PINSKY: What have you heard? What have you heard?
SEDAGHATFAR: I`ve been hearing, oh, she`s not crying enough. She`s crying too much. She`s not showing enough emotion. It`s just, you know, it`s too much.
And, Dr. Drew, you said before on your show numerous times that there is no cookie cutter way for people to cope with trauma. So, she`s a 16- year-old girl. Back off. Leave her alone and let her cope the best way she knows how.
PINSKY: Now, let`s look at some more. She also talked about the events immediately following her abduction. Here`s what she told the NBC`s "Today" show. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: When I got into the house, he handcuffed me and zip tied my feet. He told me that he was going kidnap me and take me to Idaho where my intention was just to carry his backs to the river and he would live there and he would get me home afterwards. After he told me the plan, he made me play Russian roulette with him sitting on the couch. And --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With a real gun?
And when it was my turn, I started crying. I was freaking out. And he said do you want to play? I said no. And I started crying and then he is, like, OK, and he stopped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Mark, have a reaction? It`s terrible.
EIGLARSH: First of all, I watched all 25 minutes that was available online. There`s only one word that kept coming to my mind and that is victim.
Those who on your show who I got angry with who questioned whether she was in a consensual relationship with him, I won`t mention who that is, but I think it`s crystal clear who suggested that on your show. I will tell you that they owe her an apology. Without question, this girl was victimized all of the way through. She did the best she could at her 16- year level of awareness.
SCHACHER: Then she`s being revictimized.
PINSKY: Yes, perhaps, by us talking about it.
Danny, what do you say?
DANNY CEVALLOS, ATTORNEY: Everyone in high school knew that creepy uncle jimmy that would let the kids come over and hang out at the house. Everybody knew that guy. He was always around. And what a surprise, he`s up to no good.
I`m going to take a position that may be a little controversial. Obviously, she is clearly a victim.
CEVALLOS: But the question -- but the issue here is you can trace this back to why was she more susceptible than say a family that`s together? Where was dad? Why was -- I mean, the sad truth is it`s the families that are broken that have kids that are going to go over to creepy Uncle Jimmy`s and probably drink strawberry hill wine and get into trouble.
When you trace it back, there will always be creepy Uncle Jimmy`s. Keep your kids away.
PINSKY: Well, Danny, I`m going to the behavior bureau is going to take a really unvarnished look at that, they are going to try to dig into that issue a little bit.
Anahita, I see you having almost an emotional reaction to her. I`ll let you speak in just a second. She looks a little regressed to me like she`s even -- do you remember when she came out of this thing she was a little bit sort of overconfident. Now she seems younger than 16 and regression is a common thing people do when they`ve been traumatized.
Go ahead, Anahita. Have a reaction.
I wanted to address a point that your other panelists just made. I think it was Danny. And it`s kind of making me question. My big takeaway after getting, you know, through emotion of watching this video, is why in the world is her father allowing her to give these media interviews, Dr. Drew?
She`s a 16-year-old girl. She just went through the unimaginable. OK. It`s been two months. Hold on. I get that she`s trying to say, look, I`m trying to set the record straight. People have been saying all these things about me.
But, Dr. Drew, is this healthy for her? I think if anything this is opening her up to more criticism and more trauma and her priorities should be getting help right now.
PINSKY: Tell you what, I want to put -- hang on. Mark, I`m going to have you respond, and then, Loni, I put a tweet up in the meantime that viewers can read while you respond, Mark. Go ahead, Mark.
EIGLARSH: OK. Let`s make this clear. This is what she wants to do. There is people out there saying how could you have played Russian roulette when you had your hands handcuffed.
There are people questioning these girls. She wants to answer these questions. She went and carefully went through this. I consider that to be courageous and good for the healing process for her to do what she wants to do.
PINSKY: Possibly, Loni, your reaction?
COOMBS: I agree with Mark absolutely. She can be curled up in a ball in a closet right now. But she`s actually taking action and that`s the best way for her to heal. Kids nowadays are different from the later generations. They are much more open. They share more.
And let`s be honest. Her mother is dead. She has a somewhat strained relationship with her father. You can tell that from the statements. He moved away. She made this guy her substitute father she said. So maybe she doesn`t have a close family member to turn to. She said she`s closest with her friends and her dance teacher in this interview.
So, for her to go to other people, I just say whatever she needs to do to heal, she should do.
PINSKY: Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: I agree. Hold on really quickly, Anahita, because I agree with Loni and I agree with Mark, because can you imagine when you`re in high school and people are talking crap about you or they`re making stuff up about you, you want to set the record straight. Now imagine -- hold on.
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s been two months.
SCHACHER: Now imagine that the entire nation is saying that you were somehow involved in your mother and your brother`s death.
SEDAGHATFAR: Did this solve anything, though? You guys, did this interview resolve anything? All it did was open her up to more criticism.
EIGLARSH: Yes, a lot more people believe her.
SEDAGHATFAR: No, actually, Mark, they don`t. I think the consensus, at least from what I read today on social media.
SCHACHER: And that`s not what I read.
SEDAGHATFAR: People are questioning her.
SEDAGHATFAR: Is a 16 year old in a position to make these types of decisions?
EIGLARSH: She`s learning about adults. Anahita, she`s learning about adults. She even said it in the interview. That is that there are going to be haters no matter what. She sets the record straight. People like us who are intelligent, loving and compassionate, we understand that she`s a victim.
The rest, she learned, that`s none of my business what those people think of me.
SCHACHER: She might need that though.
PINSKY: It`s a great discussion. I don`t know that we can resolve it. Interesting question to bring up.
On NBC`s "Today" show, apparently they reunited Hannah with the Idaho horseback riders that saved her life. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to meet you again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys are great.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I still think you`re one tough lady.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see tears in your eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks like, I just put myself in a grandma`s place and how I would feel and I just -- you know, we`re just thrilled. We brought you a hat from Idaho.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cowboys of Idaho.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: One of the things I still have a question mark about and I wish they addressed in that interview is why she said when those people came upon her, oh, oh, now, we`re all in trouble.
EIGLARSH: Well, I think he had threatened her enough that if anyone came to rescue her that they would be killed and that`s part of the reason why she didn`t say anything to anyone.
PINSKY: Or maybe a Stockholm syndrome was evolving by that point, where she was just buying into his, not just in the sense of colluding, but just feeling like anything that upset this would result in disaster for everybody. It`s very interesting.
Thank you, panel.
Next, we`ll have more on Hannah`s disturbing ordeal with the behavior bureau.
And later, we`ll be discussing the man who tried to kill his 4 year old by injecting him in the neck with heroin.
Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Graphic details about what happened to the mom and brother of kidnapped survivor Hannah Anderson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was bashed in the back of the head, forehead, and also bridge of her nose and several layers of duct tape around her neck, also around her mouth. He was so badly burned and so badly unrecognizable that they still can`t even tell us what the cause of death is there.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host Samantha Schacher.
And, Sam, I`m going to put a tweet up here. You can get a sense. Anahita has a point in the last segment. People are kind of being harsh. (INAUDIBLE) has a new book out this week and Anderson`s 15-minute fame almost up, daddy saw this interview as a money maker.
Harsh, Sam. Harsh.
SCHACHER: It`s so disturbing, Dr. Drew. People are passing judgment on her left and right. It`s sad.
PINSKY: We`re talking about 16-yr-old Hannah Anderson sharing never heard before details of her abduction by the 40-year-old, let`s call him what he is, monster, James DiMaggio.
Here now is what she told NBC`s "Today" show about learning that he had murdered her mother and little brother. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: In the hospital when I got there, the next night they came in and told me that they had died and that Jim was dead, too. It kind of just didn`t seem real and I just thought about it for a second and then I just broke down.
I miss them so much that sometimes it`s, like, I wait for them to get home and then they`re not there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Let`s assemble the behavior group. Clinical psychologist Judy Ho, body language expert, Blanca Cobb, Wendy Walsh and Danine Manette. Also back with us, Blanca is the body language expert. I want to hear from you.
What do you see there in that footage?
BLANCA COBB, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: I see a young woman who is telling her truth. She`s talking about what she feels comfortable with in a manner that she wants to.
And for people to criticize her, I think they just need to back off and step back and let her speak her truth. She has to do what she`s comfortable with and we can`t put our judgments on her about what`s right and what isn`t right.
PINSKY: Let me make sure I`m hearing you. You see no evidence in body language or in the vocal porosity or anything that looks like deception, anything that looks other than her just reporting things as she experienced them?
COBB: Yes. There`s a lot of stress behaviors. You can tell from the beginning of the interview she is holding one wrist. This is stress behaviors.
When she talks about different subjects, stress behaviors increase. She`s rubbing her finger against her arm. These are pacifying behaviors.
We do this to help us calm down and help us feel better. As though we are psyching ourselves out. I can get through this. We can get through this.
PINSKY: And, Wendy, she talks about --
COBB: So, yes, we see stress behaviors.
PINSKY: What you`d expect given what she`s talking about. And Wendy, she talks about having -- she`s describing disassociations. So, let`s tell people what that is. When she finds out her mother, brother, and this man is dead. She feels as though it`s unreal.
WALSH: Yes, of course, it`s unreal because the first step in the brain taking in this kind of traumatic news is almost a numbness like I`m just watching a movie. It`s not really real. It`s not really there. And this is one of the ways that the mind protects itself from this kind of trauma. And I have to also agree, Dr. Drew, of all of the footage I`ve seen of her and the photos and the online social networking comments, this is the most real.
I really feel like, now, she`s coming down from the high if I can use that word, even though a negative high, to a place of real grieving. And it was probably difficult for her to do this interview.
PINSKY: Judy, does she seem -- you know what I`m talking about when I say she seems a little regressed. Of course, she`s going to be detached and numb as Wendy described, but she seems -- looks -- compared to there, she looks like a 16 or 17-year-old. Today, I felt like, oh, it`s a 14 year old, like she was a little backwards which I would expect with what she`s been through.
HO: Dr. Drew, you read my mind. When I was watching that footage, I thought, oh my goodness. This is a child.
HO: But when you look at her in these photos that we`ve been showing when we talk about the story and even in this clip that`s playing now, she does look a little bit older, doesn`t she? She looks like maybe she`s a little bit more mature and a little bit more playful. And today, she just looks drawn in, regressed. She looks like a child, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes. It`s so sad. Now, Danine, you always have something to stir us up here. What do you got?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, you know, Dr. Drew, I come at this from a CSI perspective.
PINSKY: I know that. You always freak me out, too. Yes.
MANETTE: I still have an awful lot of questions, quite honestly. And I wish they would have come out today in the interview.
MANETTE: I also want to know why she made the statement about we`re in trouble. I want to know why she said that Jim built a fire, a signal fire and shot off three SOS shots with a gun if he had just killed two people and kidnapped somebody. Why would he be looking for help? What`s that all about?
I want to know why her cell phone was turned off when she got into the car. I want to know why she didn`t see her mother`s car parked out front when it was clearly there. There`s a lot of things I just don`t understand about this case. I`m not drawing any conclusions, but I just have a lot of questions I want to know about the brutality of the murder scene. Why was it so brutal and personal? I have lots and lots of questions.
PINSKY: I was disappointed some of -- there may have been sort of contingencies or restriction on this interview today by the "Today" show, but it was -- I had a bunch of questions that were not answered.
SCHACHER: I agree. And actually, Danine, the questions that you were referring to and asking earlier were the same questions that I saw when I was looking at the forums today and looking through social media. So, you`re not alone. But, the only thing that I can say is we have to be reminded that San Diego Police Department did a very thorough investigation also on Hannah, and they came to the conclusion that nothing that she did, that she was regardless a victim.
PINSKY: Yes. Let me put another tweet up there. This is a very simple thing, that people are just wondering -- I think these, again, they`re very harsh about it. There you go. A question underneath but (INAUDIBLE) is asking, "Why are we so certain that she`s telling truth and then this Roland answered "Something still doesn`t feel right."
And I think that`s just because -- let`s all -- here`s what I want to say about that. This girl is telling a truth here, and the truth is extremely painful. We all agree with that. Yes, nodding heads? OK. There are unanswered questions. We don`t know why they haven`t been answered. But don`t assume is because necessarily as Danine always does that there`s foul play.
We`re hoping that we will hear the answers and don`t be too harsh on this poor girl. I want to show you what Hannah also told NBC`s "Today" show about the letters she had written to James DiMaggio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANNAH ANDERSON, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: A year ago, my mom and dad split up and me and my mom really didn`t get along a year ago. So, when I was having problems with her and I wouldn`t have really anyone to talk about it with, me and him instead of talking face-to-face, if we didn`t have time or like calling, we just write letters back and forth talking about like the situation and how to get through it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And this, Danine, goes at one of the issues that trouble us most is the parents and the split family and the dad, her relationship with the dad, what`s going on here. Don`t you agree?
MANETTE: I do agree with that, and I also would have liked to have found out at what point did she get creep (ph) out, before or after the trips to Hollywood? There are so many questions that I have. And you know that I`m always a skeptic and I`m looking at things twice. So, like I said, I`m not drawing any conclusions. I just think that there`s a lot more to this story.
PINSKY: I`m going to let my psychologist respond to that before we rake (ph) throughout the segment. Judy, you first.
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, you know, my question is maybe they didn`t push her as much in the interview today because she looked so broken and she looked like a child, Maybe they went in with a different plan and when they saw how she was, they thought, they better respect her and maybe hold back a little bit.
PINSKY: Yes. They may have been right trying to help her and not hurt her in this interview by asking too many questions or they may have been restricted for some reason. Wendy.
WALSH: And I thought the interview was actually very sensitive to be doing this on national TV. But when you hear about the letter writing to the 40-year-old man and -- you didn`t hear is that he was also writing to her about his problems at work or whatever. So, there`s all kinds of weird boundary violations.
WALSH: Yes. And, you know, with the father being further away, maybe she was switching her attachment from dad to this guy and she`s --
MANETTE: So, nobody feels --
MANETTE: Nobody feels as though that there was -- this is a mutual relationship or any level at all? Nobody --
SCHACHER: She`s 15.
HO: And even if that`s true does not mean that she`s not in pain that her family is gone now?
MANETTE: No. Not that she`s not a victim. Not that she`s not a victim as she saw (ph) this pain. That set aside. But I`m just wondering whether or not there was more to this story as far as that, you know, whether she was really creeped out by him and what her role is in, you know, his attraction to her.
PINSKY: That for the moment --
MANETTE: I got to be honest with you.
PINSKY: -- that will remain somewhat of a mystery as these questions linger. And we`ll keep our eye on those. And next up, thank you, panel, the father charged with trying to kill his four-year-old son with heroin.
And later, a man on a crowded commuter train pulls out a gun, waves it around repeatedly, and no one seems to notice until he kills someone. You`ll hear from the victim`s sister. Back in a moment.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up at the top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," one jury, but two bold questions and two verdicts tonight. Our first one involves a high school student found dead rolled up in a gym mat. Was the high school gym mat death a murder? We`ll show you the evidence.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: And then, we revisit the MacNeill case and we ask a bold question tonight, did the doctor`s beauty queen wife accidentally drown? We`ll show you that evidence, too. You say no.
POLITAN: I`m voting already. No. Top of the hour. "HLN After Dark."
PINSKY: It is time again for the "Behavior Bureau." My co-host is Samantha Schacher. Now, the father who had injected his four-year-old son with a potentially fatal dose of heroin injected in the neck pleaded not guilty. He shuffled into court this afternoon. We finally got to look at the man accused of committing this crime. Now, this is the first time any of us is seeing this footage. So, we just got this in. I want you all to take a look at it
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where young mom came home to find her husband and son unconscious.
PINSKY: A father accused of trying to kill his four-year-old son by injecting him in the neck with heroin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fortunately, they were still breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five years as a police officer, I`ve never run across anything like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the day his divorce is supposed to be final.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see couples using children as pawns to get back at the other one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don`t understand how messed up you have to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t you dare use an innocent child to get back at somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who leaves your four-year-old alone with an addict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: obviously, the father is sick and evil.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That means it`s attempted murder and you can put that in your arm and shoot it because you`re going to jail.
PINSKY: Back with me, Wendy, Judy, Danine, and Blanc. And let`s see that footage again of him in court today. Blanca, you read body language. There he is. Father in court. This is the man himself an addict who injected his son in the neck with heroin. We`re seeing him here for the first time. Anything that you`re seeing that gives us any added information beyond what we`re looking at here?
COBB: No. Anyone can look good for five seconds. And walking in the courtroom look how he has his hands positioned, you know, it`s almost like a sign of respect, if you will. But no.
COBB: Anyone can behave for a few seconds.
PINSKY: He`s playing it safe. He`s playing it safe. Now, the mother of this child came home to find the dad lying in his own vomit. His son right next to him. I think we actually have some footage of this -- with the boy with the syringe lying on his chest. Danine, do you think he was trying to get a maximum effect?
Because this aspects of this -- you know, I treat lots of drug addicts. And, they don`t engage in behavior like this. It`s not their addiction that causes this or is it?
MANETTE: Dr. Drew, this is over the top. This is over the top. But this is a classic example of when one parent hates the other one more than they love a child. And, you know, whether you`re keeping the child away from the father, the other parent and claiming abuse or whatever it is that, you know, molestation, whatever the claim is that you`re making falsely because you hate that parent more than you love that child.
And you remember King Solomon when he was going to divide the baby in half when the two women were fighting over him. And the one woman said, yes, divide him in half, and the other one said, no, no let her have him. And said, you`re the real parent. This is the exact same situation where this person he just hated this woman so much and he used this child as a pawn. And it`s just disgusting and sad.
PINSKY: Wendy, I love that image of Solomon.
WALSH: You know, I`m worried, Dr. Drew, about this mother that she really underestimated the safety of leaving a child with an addict. So, if there`s a message out there for any of our viewers out here, if somebody is depressed, if somebody is an addict, this is somebody who should not be caring for a small child. Very important that we know that.
PINSKY: And then, Judy, my theory is that multiple puncture wounds in the child`s buttocks was him trying to give him enough to put him to sleep until he finally gave him the final puncture in the neck. I think he clearly was trying to kill this child, but now, he pleads not guilty. That makes me angry.
SCHACHER: Me, too.
HO: I know, Dr. Drew. I mean, people don`t take responsibility for their actions even when they`re so severe. And this man, I think he had a plan. I think he knew what he was doing. Like you said, with the multiple puncture wounds, I believe he was trying to kill this child out of hatred for his mother, out of hatred for whatever it was. He was mad at somebody and decided to take it out on his own child. And that`s really, really sad that he would let it go that far.
PINSKY: Now, if you have a question for the "Behavior Bureau," you can tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
Up next, how did an entire train full of people fail to notice a guy waving a gun around until he killed someone? We`re going to hear exclusively from the victim`s sister. We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senseless random killing that happens on a crowded commuter train.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man looks agitated, shifting back and forth, sometimes, smiling for no reason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Almost more stunning, the passengers were so absorbed in the phones and their electronic devices, they don`t do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say this man is armed and about to murder someone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say the suspect waved that gun around and even touched it to his nose and nobody noticed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How close are these people to him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of these people are probably no more than about two to three feet away from him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe they didn`t see the accused killer holding the weapon in plain sight. Maybe they were afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not until the gun fires that people look up. Shot in the back and killed 20-year-old Justin Valdez (ph) seemingly man picked at random. He was simply heading home after classes.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher and the "Behavior Bureau," Judy, Wendy, and Danine. In that piece, you see there is footage of that man`s behavior. Apparently, there`s more footage both of him wielding the gun and of the passengers looking at their phones and doing nothing. You know, we`re all guilty of this. I watch you guys as you`re preparing -- during the commercial breaks, and everyone has got their face in the phone. Yes, we`re all bad about it.
Now, a 20-year-old college student is dead, and we are joined by Jessica Labidi. She is the sister of the shooting victim, Justin Valdez. And first, Jessica, let me just say, this is -- our hearts are broken for you. This is just such a tragedy. So, on behalf of all of us here, our thoughts and prayers are with you. I guess, the question tonight is, could this have been prevented?
VOICE OF JESSICA LABIDI, SISTER OF JUSTIN VALDEZ: Well, I wish it could have been prevented. I have this idea, you know, in my head that if maybe someone had looked up from their smartphones, then it could have, you know, been prevented because they would have seen this guy with the gun or even, you know, maybe looked at him and maybe even scared to even shoot the gun at my brother.
PINSKY: And this guy, he doesn`t seem to be connected to reality in the tape we`re seeing here. Wendy, do you agree this is another case of someone with serious problems who shouldn`t be given a gun?
WALSH: Yes. Again, you know, people with mental illness, having access to guns, but you know -- and also Dr. Drew, there are a lot of mentally ill people on public transportation in our major cities. And, when you`re in a subway, in an enclosed place, I want you to understand the behavior of us when we do what I called distracted living, not just distracted driving, distracted living, it creates a cocoon around us.
When we are focused just on our e-mails, just on our Facebook, then we`re not having to worry and stress about what`s going on around us.
PINSKY: But Wendy -- Danine, I understand, I`ve got to go to break, Danine, but I understand you live in that area and people stay focused as a way of not making eye contact with people so they don`t get into trouble. Is that right?
MANETTE: Before we had cell phones and iPods, we had walkmans and books.
MANETTE: and when you`re on mass transit like that, you don`t want to be asked for spare changed. You don`t want to be bothered or hassled. You want to say, I`m completely occupied. I can`t hear you, I can`t see you, leave me alone. It happens all the time.
PINSKY: All right. We`ll take a quick break. Back with the panel just after this.
PINSKY: We`re back with the "behavior Bureau" and my co-host, Samantha Schacher. The "Bureau," Judy, Wendy, and Danine. And to put a tweet up to Danine`s point before the break. She said people look straight ahead. If somebody looked up, they would have gotten shot which is Danine`s point that people mind their own business. We`re talking about a college student who was shot merely randomly as he was getting off a public transportation train.
And we`re back with Jessica Labidi. She is the sister of the shooting victim, Justin Valdez. Jessica, you actually spoke to some of the people who were on the scene right after this event. What did they tell you?
LABIDI: Well, I actually spoke to two of the young girls that were actually with my brother after he was shot. They didn`t see anything about before. You know, I don`t think they were actually on the train with my brother and the guy that killed him. They were just with him after and they just told me that this guy had shot my brother. My brother had screamed for help.
LABIDI: People came running to help my brother.
PINSKY: Danine, I wonder if you have a question for Jessica?
MANETTE: I do. Jessica, I`m really disturbed by the random nature of this. It doesn`t seem to be gang related or any of the usual --
MANETTE: And I`m wondering if -- when you spoke to anybody who was there after the fact, was he ranting and raving? Was the killer acting crazy? Did he run around? Did he run off or do anything about his behavior right afterwards?
LABIDI: No one said anything about any of that, you know, behavior. I`ve only seen what`s been on the news of the video of the guy. And I know -- I believe that the guy probably just walked off the scene. I know he lives only three blocks away from where he shot my brother. So, he probably just ran or walked off and no one noticed him, I`m assuming.
PINSKY: I`m against the clock here, Jessica, but thank you so much for joining us. And again, condolences to you and your family. Thank you, "Behavior Bureau." "Last Call" next.
PINSKY: Time for the "Last Call," and it goes to Samantha.
SCHACHER: There`s a lesson to be learned here, Dr. Drew. Listen, I`m guilty of it, too, but we need to be more aware of our surroundings and have one another`s back.
PINSKY: And I`ll tell you what, guns in the hands of people with mental illness, we`re hearing about it almost every day. It`s ridiculous. Thank you for watching, guys. "After Dark - "HLN After Dark" begins right now.