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Lots Of Talk, But Still No Deal; House GOP Leaders: No Votes Until Monday Night; Three Bikers Indicted In SUV Attack; Amanpour Interviews Malala Yousafzai; Shutdown Threatens Fishing Industry; "The Shining" Still Grips Audiences

Aired October 12, 2013 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I am Miguel Marquez in for Fredricka Whitfield. Here are the top stories we are following in the CNN NEWSROOM.

After what appeared to be a brief ceasefire, angry rhetoric returns to Washington. Twelve days of the government shutdown with House members likely heading home. The White House is now looking toward the Senate for a way out of the crisis. We're covering all angles.

Plus an incredibly powerful storm slammed into India's eastern coast just moments ago. The cyclone is Phailin is rivaling the record books for the worst storm the region has ever seen. Now millions are preparing for the worst.

Is it possible to be too drunk to kill? That's the argument three drivers are making, they want their murder convictions thrown out.

We begin on Capitol Hill where Republican congressmen say talks between the president and John Boehner have hit a brick wall. Not much may get done today in the House to end the government shutdown and raise the debt ceiling, in a way that's because members may go back to their districts, leaving only the GOP leadership in town, but October 17th is next week. That's when the debt limit ceiling is hit and the government runs out of money to pay its own bills.

Athena Jones is live on Capitol Hill for us. This has to be the worst day of your life there, Athena. Make some sense of it for us. The talking points seem to be the same between the two sides, now you have House members sort of leaking out and going to districts. What's going on there?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there certainly are any signs of progress right now, Miguel, we have House members already headed home. We know that right now no votes are scheduled for tomorrow, Sunday. That's a change, but as of right now, they are not due back for a back until Monday at 6:30 p.m. Pretty soon the Senate is going to end its session, same thing over there.

And as you mentioned for a couple days, we were talking about how the rhetoric had been dialed back and people sounded a little bit happier, they were speaking in more measured tones on both sides of the aisle. Well, that all changed. The House GOP have their conference meeting this morning. Coming out of that, we heard from some House Republicans that were very angry that President Obama has rejected their plan that would raise the debt limit just until November 22nd. Let's listen to what one of the House members had to say, this is Representative Fleming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN FLEMING (R), LOUISIANA: As you know, and you probably heard already, we met, apparently we're getting a bait and switch strategy from the White House. The president apparently was not negotiating in good faith. All he said is whatever you offer I am not interested in it. He is hoping to cut a deal with the Senate, which I would think be a terrible deal to undermine the House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So there you heard Representative Fleming say that the focus really is on what's going on, on the Senate side, the proposal that was presented to President Obama by Senate Republicans yesterday during their meeting, and that's the focus. People in the House aren't too happy about it, conservative Republicans especially aren't too happy about that.

We don't yet know how the plan on the Senate side could be changed by Democrats, and it is not looking, certainly are having some indications that if the plan comes back around, that's a plan that would both reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling, but we just don't know how that plan would fair if it comes back to this side of the House. Even though we are approaching that deadline, it is not looking very, very clear when we have a vote to resolve this.

MARQUEZ: Athena Jones, keep at it. Thank you very much. Good luck there. There's at least one concrete plan to end the standoff. Here's more on that plan that Senator Susan Collins has presented to the president to end the shutdown. The plan would end the government shutdown, extend government funding for six months with sequester level spending cuts, repeal tax on medical devices, and raise the debt ceiling.

Senior White House correspondent Brianna Keilar is live from the White House. Brianna, is this going to take off, fly? Republicans of the House saying the White House already rejected it.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think at this point there are some things that the White House doesn't like and there are some things that the White House does like. So let's first talk, and I think the White House sees it as sort of a starting point, Miguel. So let's talk about first what they do like. The extension or I should say funding the government. It reopens the government, that was something the House republican proposal did not do.

And the extension of the debt ceiling beyond the holidays because remember, the House Republican plan was only for a six-week extension of the debt ceiling, that would have taken us to before Thanksgiving. President Obama just in his weekly radio address this weekend saying he doesn't want that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And it wouldn't be wise as some suggest to just kick the debt ceiling can down the road for a couple of months and flirt with the first ever intentional default, right in the middle of the holiday shopping season because damage to America's sterling credit rating wouldn't just cause global markets to go haywire. It would be more expensive for everyone in America to borrow money, students paying for college, newlyweds buying a home. It would amount to a new tax, a Republican default tax on every family and business in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So this proposal extends the debt ceiling into January 2014, just ahead of us, Miguel and even that, the White House would like to see something longer so that's part of the thing where they sort of like it because it goes beyond the holiday season, but they want it even longer than that. That would certainly be the preference.

One of the other concerns, and this is a concern of congressional Democrats as well, that sequester, those across the board spending cuts that went into effect, will they get steeper going into the new year, and part of this proposal from Senate Republicans says that agencies would have flexibility on how to sort of figure out their cuts.

The fear of Democrats is that that may be code for Republicans saying they're going to fix defense cuts by substituting them for cuts to what's called discretionary spending, some of that would be perhaps safety net programs that Democrats value so much and want to make sure that doesn't happen.

So this is certainly maybe a starting point and we're going to see some more back and forth on this, but I don't think the White House has dismissed out of hand certainly that something could be coming here from the Senate.

MARQUEZ: So one piece of that deal would see the medical device tax, the imposition of that delayed. Is that acceptable to the White House?

KEILAR: You know, this is intriguing, Miguel. Because yesterday in the meeting with Senate Republicans, President Obama indicated to him that this medical devices tax, which is part of Obamacare, he doesn't consider it a core part of Obamacare, and this is something a number of Democrats in Congress have said they don't like this tax.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called it a stupid tax. So I think there's certainly some -- the White House may be open to looking at that and they're not dismissing it because of just that particular thing.

MARQUEZ: All right, I understand right now that the Senate is in session and the Democrats have brought a bill to the floor of the Senate and they are voting at the moment to have a clean debt bill basically. Clearly Democrats are trying to force the issue here, yes?

KEILAR: And this is something that -- so this is a bill Democrats wish was introduced earlier this week. It is a one year clean extension, right. This is something at this point I think you'll see a lot of Republican opposition to. This is what the White House would like, their grand hope would be that they can gain steam and jam House Republicans with this and put pressure on them to do it. But it is not looking like it will necessarily be successful.

So we will be waiting for the results of that vote and because it may not be successful, Miguel, that's why we're seeing other proposals being discussed in the Senate.

Both sides clearly trying to ratchet up pressure on the other one, the question is who breaks first. John Boehner seems to be the man, the linchpin for all of this. Fascinating stuff. I hope you're getting a good lunch there. Brianna Keilar, thanks very much.

Candy Crowley coming up to hopefully make some sense of all that. Stay tuned for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Lots of movement in Washington today, lots of back and forth and each party trying to get one up on the other. Having a little difficult time making sense of it, but that will come to an end now. We are joined by Candy Crowley, chief political correspondent and anchor of "STATE OF THE UNION." Candy, what in the world is going on now? The Senate is voting right now. What exactly are they voting on?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They are voting on cloture. That is the 60-vote margin that they need to put bill on the floor that would be a clean debt ceiling. I think it would take them through December of next year. So they are not voting on the bill itself. It's kind of a test vote to see kind of where the soft spots are among Republicans. There are not enough Democratic votes in the Senate to achieve cloture.

They aren't 60 votes. So they need some Republicans. So it is a test vote. Most people expect it is going to go down, unless there's some big surprise. That this is something that is going to get worked out between Republicans and the White House at some level, and not here in a Senate vote. So I suspect that cloture vote will fail.

MARQUEZ: Yes, I can't imagine that Republicans will go along with that given the state of negotiations at the moment. With all of these moves today, with the House GOP and perhaps Dems as well going home for the weekend. No votes until Monday, both sides seem to say we're all just going to go home, let you guys work it out. What is your sense of where this is all going at the moment?

CROWLEY: Well, first of all, the perception of the House breaking for a long holiday weekend is not great. I suggest you look at Twitter. I don't think government workers that have been furloughed love the idea that Congress is now going home and doesn't -- the first vote is like late Monday night, if I think that's right, so there's the perception.

The reality is that the Republican leaders are going to stick around and that's where really it is going to happen. They can always call House members back, say come on, we have to vote earlier than we thought. But the fact is most rank and file Republicans can make noise but they don't make the bill that's going to eventually pass. So Republican leaders are staying, the rank and file are going home.

MARQUEZ: All right, Candy Crowley, thank you very much.

CROWLEY: Thanks.

MARQUEZ: Hope it gets better soon.

CROWLEY: Yes, it has to.

MARQUEZ: One hopes.

Want to remind you, Candy has an exclusive interview with one of the key players in the government shutdown, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul joins Candy on "STATE OF THE UNION" Sunday morning, 9:00 a.m. Eastern and noon Eastern Time.

An undercover cop who witnessed this attack on an SUV driver in New York is facing charges, but one legal expert says he's getting off easy. Find out why coming up.

Each week on CNN, we name a CNN Hero, someone doing remarkable work in their community. In a few weeks we will name the 2013 "Hero of the Year." Anderson Cooper introduces us to the finalists for "CNN Hero of 2013."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN'S "AC360": I'm Anderson Cooper. All year, we have been introducing you to everyday people who are changing the world. We call them "CNN Heroes." Well, now we announce the top ten "CNN Heroes" for 2013. In random order, the honorees are --

Dale Beatty lost his legs in Iraq. Now he's modified or helped provide homes to more than two dozen disabled veterans.

Dr. Laura Stachel uses solar power to help health care workers deliver babies safely.

Danielle Gletow, she is fairy godmother for foster children making their often simple wishes come true.

Kakenya Ntaiya opened the first primary school for girls in her Kenya village.

Tawanda Jones' drill team provides discipline and inspiration to children in one of nation's poorest cities.

Chad Pregracke is keeping America's rivers clean by removing garbage from waterways across the U.S. Estelle Pyfrom poured her savings into a mobile computer lab that serves low income children and adults.

Richard Nares lost his son to leukemia. Now he's helping low income children get to their cancer treatments.

Dr. George Gwelle travels into the jungles of Cameroon nearly every weekend bringing free surgery to those in need.

And Robin Emmons provides fresh produce to underserved residents in her community. Congratulations to the top ten "CNN Heroes" of 2013. Tell us who inspires you the most, go to cnnheros.com to vote once a day, every day for the "CNN Hero of the Year."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: The chase, the beating all caught on video. Now three bikers have been indicted in connection with that violent clash involving an SUV driver in New York. Craig Wright, Reginald Chance, and Robert Sims, are all accused of attacking Alexian Lien in front of his wife and child. Four other people have been arrested including one New York police officer who was riding with the group.

Two other undercover cops are believed to have been at the scene. One of them worked for Internal Affairs, the very same department that is investigating this matter. The story seems to get bigger by the day and now at least one undercover cop is charged in the case. It is getting even more disturbing. The idea that police officers saw this attack happened and didn't call 911 or try to stop it, it's pretty shocking.

So let's bring in our legal guys, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor is in Cleveland, and Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor joins us from Las Vegas. Avery, talk about the cops significance of cops being involved here or at least witness to what happened in this incident.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Miguel, I mean, it really undermines the whole foundation of the reliability and trust we have in law enforcement. This is really shocking if you think about it. On the assumption that it is true, the idea that law officers were involved in this and not only participated, but in the example of -- in the Internal Affairs officer did nothing is very, very troubling.

And you know what? There has to be so much more to this story, but it seems just incredible to me that you would have someone an Internal Affairs officer that's maybe as tough as it gets when it comes to law enforcement doing absolutely nothing. It just truly undermines our whole sense of our trust in what law enforcement should be.

MARQUEZ: Yes. These guys are always the ones that are supposed to be policing the police, and it is obviously disturbing that they would be there. Although they did come forward and it is unclear how much they saw or what they were doing there, but hopefully we'll know more. Richard, that's one big question -- that those indicted will be arraigned at the end of this month, what other details could be learned then?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, listen, in this modern age of technology, Miguel, we have video of crimes being committed and here it is all captured on video. So this officer, his image is captured. He is going to have himself a major problem. He is charged with a substantial felony, facing a lot of prison time, there will be no sympathy for him as an officer of the law. I don't care if he is under cover.

This is not like he infiltrated organized crime and giving all sorts of surveillance information. This biker group is not so organized. They put all their notices on the internet so it is easily obtainable by law enforcement. For him to stand around or actually participate in the terrorism of this family is beyond outrageous. Any judge hearing this case is going to throw the book at him, a jury won't be sympathetic.

He is going to have a major problem. With respect to the Internal Affairs officer, the defense there is he wasn't involved, he didn't know what happened, he didn't see it, and he reported it, but he waited two weeks to come forward and that's a big problem.

MARQUEZ: Yes, it doesn't look particularly good for anyone in this situation. A source tells CNN, a second off duty officer questioned was riding with the first officer, but was not involved in the attack, just a bizarre situation. Guys, thank you very much. You will be back in 20 minutes to talk about an almost unbelievable legal strategy. I was too drunk to commit murder, three drivers that caused deadly car accidents appeal their convictions using that argument.

About 12 million people are bracing for a catastrophe in India. A tropical cyclone has made landfall. A look at some of the damage the storm is already causing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Bottom of the hour now. Welcome back. I am Miguel Marquez. Here are the five things crossing the CNN NEWSDESK right now.

Number one, a deal to end the shutdown and raise the debt ceiling, doesn't look likely today. A Republican congressman says talks between the president and John Boehner have hit a brick wall. House members may leave Washington and return to their districts, but GOP leaders will remain in town to continue negotiations.

Number two, Minnesota Vikings star runningback Adrian Peterson asking for privacy as he mourns the death of his 2-year-old son. The child died yesterday of injuries he received after he was allegedly beaten by his mother's boyfriend. Joseph Robert Patterson has been arrested. Patterson says despite the tragedy, he will be able to suit up and be able to play football tomorrow.

Number three, the whereabouts of this man remain unclear. Scott Chandler is the director of a ranch for troubled kids. An amber alert has been issued for nine teenagers whom police say were abducted from the ranch. Authorities say one of the teens has returned home and is OK. Chandler's lawyer says all the teens are safe, but an amber alert remains in effect.

Number four, Cadillac will release a luxury plug in car early next year, the Cadillac ELR. It has a deluxe price tag, about $69,000 after tax credits. Cadillac says the high price tag comes from the car's greater flexibility. The ELR can flip between electric and gas, which allows it to drive for greater distances than traditional electric cars.

Number five, Mark Zuckerberg has reportedly purchased four new houses, but they are not in exotic far away locations. They are right next door to his home in Palo Alto, California. According to the "San Jose Mercury News," Facebook CEO heard of a developer's plan to buy one of the properties next door and market it as being next to Mark zuckerberg's house. The 29-year-old billionaire who is worth $19 billion is reportedly planning to lease the homes back to the families that live there.

Although she didn't win, Malala Yousafzai was thought to be a frontrunner for this year's Nobel Peace Prize. Remember her story. She is the Pakistani girl who was shot by the Taliban gunmen for trying to organize education for young girls. CNN's Christiane Amanpour had the chance to speak with her this week. She joins us now. Christiane, despite all that happened to her, she is really pretty defiant, isn't she?

CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She really is and in an extremely attractive and appealing way she refuses to be quiet. You know, I did ask her before the Nobel was announced what she felt about being in contention. She said you know, I am way too young, I haven't done enough. But she said I will continue to speak out.

And look, she put her life on the line for peace. Peace through the education of girls and boys but most definitely girls, and I started by asking her in our conversation what she remembered of that precise moment when that Taliban gunman came up and pointed his weapon at her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALALA YOUSAFZAI, EDUCATION ACTIVIST: He asked who is Malala. He did not give me time to answer his question. And my friend told me, my best friend, that at that time just squeezed my hand, pushed it with force, and you did not say anything. And then the next few seconds he fired three bullets. One bullet hit me in the left side of my forehead, just above here, and it ran down through my neck and into my shoulder.

And I think I was hit by only one bullet, and it also affected my ear drum, so now I have problem in listening as well. It also cut down my -- but if I look at it, it is a miracle. My brain is saved, my spinal cord is safe, everything is fine, I am alive and I still can talk and smile, so I thank God for that. Before we were going to school, it was a normal life, doing homework daily, being good and getting high marks. We could not understand what we are doing. Why are we going to school then later on when the terrorists came and they stopped us from going to school, I got the evidence, and showed me a proof that yes, the terrorists are afraid of education.

They are afraid of the power of education. And if a woman gets education and she becomes more powerful, and we all know that the terrorists are afraid of the power of women as well. So now at that time we realize that yes, education is important because it was snatched from us.

So I would like to tell every girl in U.K., in America, in the countries, in the developed countries where education is available to them, go to schools and realize its importance before it is snatched from you as we have been suffered from that situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Christiane, her story is phenomenal. How did you find her? How is she, is she fully recovered now?

AMANPOUR: She is pretty much fully recovered, but let's not forget that she has a titanium plate in parts of her head instead of her skull because that was shattered. She has what she described a facial nerve that's not fully healed and may never be, and that does affect her face a little bit. But her spirit is unbroken.

She said they can try to kill my body, but can't kill my spirit, my mission, my cause, and I am going to continue to fight for peace through education and even though they threatened her again, the Taliban, said they would continue to try to kill her to shut her up, she says she won't be silenced.

She even says in the future she would like to be a female prime minister of Pakistan. Her role model was Benazir Bhutto, the country's only prime minister who was herself several years ago brutally murdered by the Taliban -- Miguel.

MARQUEZ: It's an amazing story. She has such a quiet loveliness to her. She also says she wanted to open a girl's school if she won the peace prize. She does though in interviews, she pulls back. My sense is she still worries about herself and her family and their safety.

AMANPOUR: I think she does worry about their safety. Of course, she does, because these are people that have proven they're not just issuing idle threats, they have made good on threats. She and her family and her father of course are very concerned. It is extraordinary to see this couple really, this young teenager, 15, 16 years old now, with her father who is her biggest champion.

A Pakistani man from traditional conservative village who has really enabled his daughter and encouraged his daughter not just to seek education, but the two of them to speak out for that very right because everybody knows, Miguel, whether it is in this country or any other country that you cannot have progress, economic success or even peace without education.

In Pakistan now it is tragic, 25 million children are not going to school, and 15 million of those are girls. So the task ahead is great.

MARQUEZ: Don't forget to join us tomorrow night at 7:00 Eastern for Christiane's special report, "The Bravest Girl In The World," right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Well, that Senate vote we were telling you about earlier has gone the way we expected it to, it did not pass. This was a vote of cloture, getting 60 votes to cut off debate in the Senate to bring a bill that gives the senators a chance to vote for a clean, continuing resolution to fund the government. That went down by 53-45, so they did not get the 60 votes they need to close that debate and the drama in Washington continues.

Onto other more serious drama in some ways, Tropical Cyclone Phailin just made landfall a short time ago in India and already the storm is being blamed for several deaths. Phailin was packing winds of 140 miles per hour when it hit. That would be a Category 4 hurricane here in the U.S. Disaster officials evacuated more than a half million before Phailin came on shore. You can see how strong the winds were a half mile inland a few hours before the storm hit.

Meteorologist Karen Maginnis is tracking Phailin in the severe weather center. How is it going there?

KAREN MAGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It has made landfall as a strong Category 4. As it moves on shore, we will see the storm surge. I am seeing reports on Twitter from the government of India and they're saying they're doing everything to make relief supplies available uninterrupted. That's good news. We have already gotten reports of at least seven fatalities, and from other Twitter reports we're seeing, it looks as if a number of hotels and businesses as well as homes have been flooded.

They're saying the water is very high there. They're expecting up to a foot of rainfall. Now, the winds as they slammed on shore, the sustained winds at 140 miles per hour, and higher gusts, is going to move across interior sections of North Eastern India. You may have already heard that in 1999 this same area was also affected by tremendous tropical cyclone, with very similar winds, maybe a few ticks down as far as miles per hour.

They said all the trees were replanted because of that tropical storm, that tropical cyclone have to be replanted. Back here in the United States fairly quiet. We have a trouble spot down across Texas and that very persist tent round of moisture just kind of blowing in, lingering in the mid-Atlantic. Some areas saw as much as 10 inches of rainfall, much cooler air on the back side of this. Nashville, you go from temperatures 10 degrees above normal to just about normal.

A lot of places are going to be cooling down. Atlanta, Charlotte, Birmingham, but Texas, I think rainfall will prevail. If you are headed to Salt Lake, afternoon high is expected to be 67. We will look at temperatures cooler in the Midwest and the Deep South in the next several days -- Miguel.

MARQUEZ: Karen, thank you very much.

Our legal guys are next, a bizarre appeal in a deadly dui case. The driver says he was too drunk to know what he was doing. Will it fly? We debate the defense strategy coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Three drivers who caused deadly car accidents are asking New York's highest court to throw their murder convictions out, arguing they were too intoxicated to know they posed a threat. Our legal guys are back, Avery Friedman in Cleveland and Richard Herman in Las Vegas. Guys, New York's Court of Appeals heard those three cases earlier in the week, but we're just talking about one of them. Is that correct?

Martin Hidegan had a blood alcohol level more than three times the legal limit when he got behind the wheel of his pickup truck in 2005. He drove for miles the wrong way down Meadowbrook State Parkway. His auto smashed head first into a limo carrying a 7-year-old who had just been the flower girl at her aunt's wedding. Dash cam video from the limo tells the rest of the story.

It's horrible. He was convicted of second degree murder and is serving 18 to life for killing her and the limo driver. His lawyer argues that prosecutors failed to prove that he acted with depraved indifference. Talk more about this legal strategy, guys, and the significance of that phrase. Avery, what does it mean, Richard?

HERMAN: Miguel, what it means is this -- I'm sorry. Go ahead, Avery.

FRIEDMAN: All right. Well, essentially it is really depraved indifference to humanity, wanton humanity, a very high standard, Miguel. The fact is the defense lawyers are saying we need the legislature to write a law to be specific in Albany. It is the only argument they have. I think it is a lousy argument.

And I think the seven justices in the highest court in New York have to affirm the convictions because the death, basically the murder of a 7-year-old flower girl, my goodness. Even though the defense lawyers are saying don't look at the result, just look at the behavior, but three times the legal limit on the wrong side of the road, that's second degree murder and that conviction should stand.

MARQUEZ: Go ahead, Richard.

HERMAN: The point is this. The conviction was for murder, not manslaughter. Murder brings 19 years to life, manslaughter maybe five to 10 years. What they're arguing here is look, it is not murder. Even though you can substitute the requisite intent, usually murder is a specific intent to kill someone, and the law says if you act in such a reckless, indifferent manner, creating grave risk of death, we will substitute that for intent and that can be used for a murder conviction and that's what happened in these cases.

So what the defense argued on appeal is look, these people were so blasted, they were so intoxicated, they didn't even realize they were driving the car. So therefore they did not act with a reckless intent or indifference because they had no idea what they were doing, and the justices sat and listened and most of them went, really, and you know, it is a nice argument. It is a novel argument to make.

But in the end, once you go out and have car keys, you have a drink, one drink, then two drinks, and you have the ability to drive a car, I think at this point the rationale will be that listen, you acted this way. If you take bricks on top of a skyscraper and throw them into a crowded street, that's the same thing. If you get into a car, which is the same mentality and kill someone, you're going to be convicted of depravity, and that's what happened and I don't think they'll win on appeal.

MARQUEZ: Avery, you talk about Albany needs to pass a law to further define it. What do they need to define what needs to be on the books.

FRIEDMAN: I don't have the slightest idea what these guys are talking about, Miguel. How in the world are you going to define, do you have to be three times, two times the legal limit, four times. How many miles driving on the wrong side of the road? It is again, a terrible argument, that's all they've got. I don't think the legislature has to do one dog gone thing, nothing.

MARQUEZ: All right, and Richard, same with you? You think this is going to just work itself out?

HERMAN: Miguel, it is not going to work itself out, these guys, 19 years to life, hoping to get a manslaughter conviction. It is not going to happen in the court of appeals. It is amazing made it this far in the New York court system. These judges, they were very skeptical of the arguments and raising eyebrows and really, you know. It is not going to fly, 19 to life. They took lives.

MARQUEZ: For the record, counselors, by working itself out, meant they weren't getting manslaughter, seems impossible. Richard Herman, Avery Friedman, thank you very much. We'll see you next week.

HERMAN: We have to wish Fred's father a happy, healthy 90th birthday. Happy birthday, sir.

FRIEDMAN: That's right.

MARQUEZ: You're stealing my thunder here, gentlemen. One of America's heroes hit another milestone, talking about Mel Whitfield, we consider him part of the family here, his daughter happens to be our own news anchor, Fredricka Whitfield whose chair I am sitting in. In his hay day, he was called Marvelous Mel, won medals in the Korean War, spent nights training on military runways in the army air force where he was a gunner on 27 combat missions.

He was the first ever active duty soldier to win gold at the Olympics. After leaving the army, he spent a career as a diplomat for the State Department. Mel Whitfield turned 89 on Friday. Fredricka, Mel, congratulations. Happy birthday!

The gridlock in Washington not just effecting government workers, coming up, why fishermen worry they may not be able to make the big catch.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: There's a ripple effect in the government shutdown in a place you might not realize or think of, the fishing industry with crabbing season just days away, a shutdown means no fishing licenses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. KEITH COLBURN, CRAB FISHERMAN: On behalf of all fishermen, I am asking Congress to end the shutdown now. I'm a small business man in a big ocean with big bills. And I need to go fishing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: That was Keith Colburn from the show "Deadliest Catch" on Capitol Hill speaking to lawmakers. Jake Tapper asked Colburn what the shutdown could do to him and his competitors.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, HOST, CNN'S "THE LEAD": The season is supposed to start Tuesday.

COLBURN: Yes. Starts October 15th.

TAPPER: Even if the shutdown were to end today, which it will not?

COLBURN: We're basically locked down. Our fisheries are all closed because we don't have National Marine Fisheries, I guess, they're deemed unessential staff. They're kind of essential to us, aren't on the job to issue permits. Right now, we're looking at three to four day delay, that's if they opened the doors today. Everything I am getting now that I am back in D.C., there's no real effort being made or push made to get the government back on track.

TAPPER: And how narrow is crab season?

COLBURN: Well, crab season is time specific because we are basically, especially the king crab, about half goes to Japan and the other half comes to the domestic market, and a good percentage of that goes to the holiday market. So New Year's in particular. So if we don't have the crab delivered, frozen and shipped by about the first or second week of November, then it is not going to make the holiday markets and we're not going to see the premium price we would normally see.

TAPPER: We're talking a few weeks.

COLBURN: Not only a few weeks, a few days. If the government doesn't get their act together by middle of next week, they're going to impact our price to the dock. That spirals to coastal communities, processors, little guys. Not just 80 fishing boats in the Bering Sea. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: That show, 33 years since Jack Nicholson and Shelly Duvall kept audiences on the edges of your seats in "The Shining." Next why the intrigue is far from over.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: For more than 30 years, "The Shining" has fascinated and intrigued viewers, and it is back. In the internet era, its popularity continues to grow. Here is CNN's Nischelle Turner with more on why we can't let go of that 1980 Stephen King classic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a huge love for it.

NISCHELL TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Howard Simpt is a sculptor who is fascinated with a particular movie.

(on camera): Look at that face.

(voice-over): Yes, that movie. Such a fan of Stanley Cobert's "The Shining" he decided to pay tribute to it, down to the last detail, including the psychotic father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All hand punched hair, all one by one.

TURNER: His psychic son -- and of course, the so-called twins.

(on camera): What's going on in that head that makes you wanted to create these type of things?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is kind of a fan thing, like the best horror movie ever made.

TURNER (voice-over): Simpt is not the only "Shining" obsessive. In fact, the movie has been getting a lot of attention lately, more than three decades after it first came out. More than a quarter million people trekked through a recent exhibit on Kubrick at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, the most popular room in the show, the one devoted to "The Shining."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are special effects that were used in the film, the real thing.

TURNER: Artist, Patti Podesta, designed the exhibit.

PATTI PODESTA, LACMA KUBRICK EXHIBIT DESIGNER: This is one of the typewriters that was used and this is the knife. She said it was a kitchen knife he took from the kitchen one day saying this is the right knife.

TURNER: In 2013 also brought release of a new documentary about all the theories surrounding secret meetings Kubrick may have hidden in his films. Tim Kirk produced the film called "Room 237" aimed for the spooky suite in a hotel.

TIM KIRK, PRODUCER, "ROOM 237": All of these films, they found things that help support their theories.

TURNER: One of the theorists, Jeffrey Cox, historian at Albion College in Michigan. He is convinced he put coded messages into "The Shining" about the horrors in Nazi Germany.

KIRK: References to the holocaust in particular found a place in almost all films, certainly "The Shining" it represents the bureaucratic machinery.

TURNER: Whether it holds water or oceans of blood is a matter of opinion. He spent months sculpting the characters, says he enjoys the movie for what it is.

(on camera): How many times have you seen it?

HOWARD SENFT, SCULPTOR: Can't tell you, especially working on them, I was almost done with it when I was done with the project, take a little break.

TURNER: Can't watch it again. Then you watched it again.

SENFT: Yes, I'll probably watch it tonight.

TURNER: Exactly.

(voice-over): Nischelle Turner, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Not exactly one of Steven King's favorite adaptations.