Return to Transcripts main page
Prescription for Murder, The MacNeill Murder Trial
Aired October 17, 2013 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Utah, a 911 call from a doctor/lawyer when his 6-year-old little girl comes home to find Mommy, just days out of a full facelift, Mommy face up in, quote, "red water" in the family bathtub.
The death is first ruled natural causes, but tonight, a full-fledged affair with a much younger woman uncovered after the doctor actually brings the new girlfriend home to be the new nanny to his eight children. And within just hours -- hours -- after his wife is pronounced dead at the hospital, Dr. MacNeill has already cleaned out his wife`s closet.
Bombshell tonight, day three of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. The jury is in the box and the witnesses are taking the stand after the state lays out in opening statements just how Dr. Martin MacNeill murdered his wife.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. It is day three of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. We are live here in Provo, the courthouse right behind me. The jury is in the box, witnesses taking the stand after the state lays out in opening statements just how Dr. Martin MacNeill murdered his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This case started when the defendant met this person, Gypsy Willis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you`ve just heard from the prosecution reminds me of one of Aesop`s fables.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alexis asked the defendant what he had given her. He stated that he had probably overmedicated her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The objective evidence in this case does not support Alexis`s story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michele told Alexis that the defendant continued to give her drugs and told her to swallow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did she have the surgery? Why did she take all those medications? I`m a doctor. She`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Perper appeared on the NANCY GRACE show. He concluded that Michele had drowned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the funeral, the defendant was jovial, laughing and smiling, again remarking that he was going to have to get used to life of a bachelor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While Martin is very frantic in this 911 call, he just wants help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant told him that Michele was a bitch.
-- and ask you to find the defendant guilty of murder and of obstructing justice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prosecution`s perception in this case is wrong, ladies and gentlemen. Martin MacNeill is not...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Man, what a day in the courthouse right behind me, blockbuster opening statements! And the jury didn`t take their eyes off of those lawyers as they stood before them laying out their case -- except I caught a couple of the jurors every once in a while, they`d just turn over and take a side glance at Dr. Martin MacNeill as the lawyers were talking.
It seems to me that the defense is hanging their hat on making out the grown -- now grown daughter Alexis -- she`s now a medical doctor, and she just give birth to twins -- to make her out to be the villain, that she is exaggerating, that she`s making everything up.
Remember, Alexis is the daughter that was there at her mother`s side in the hospital after that facelift, that fatal facelift. She`s the one that stayed by her side when Dr. MacNeill left her during surgery, left her the night that she stayed in the hospital. She`s the one that stayed by her mother`s side as she recuperated at home and watched those medications. Her father was telling Michele MacNeill to just, quote, "swallow it. Swallow it."
We are here in Provo and taking your calls. Straight out to Jean Casarez, who has been here in Provo with me all day long as the evidence pours from the witness stand.
You know, Jean, am I the only one that caught it? But when they played that 911 call -- the state played it in their opening statement -- I heard Dr. MacNeill say, She`s in the water, I`m doing CPR.
Jean, didn`t we learn anything from the Michael Jackson case? Conrad Murray could not do CPR on Jackson because he was lying in a bed. You`ve got to have somebody on a flat surface. He never took her out of the tub!
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: That`s right. And what we learned was that the CPR (sic) operator responded by saying, She`s in the water, so that really confirmed it. And we know that when the neighbors got there -- because he had little Ada call the neighbors -- she was still in the tub because he said he didn`t have the strength to get her out. Even when two female neighbors said, We can help you get her out, and he said, No, I need a man to do it.
GRACE: You know, Jean, that brings me to another point. There`s the tub, everybody. It`s -- I call it a deep dish, like a pie crust tub, the kind you have to climb over to get into. You don`t just step into it.
So he`s telling 911 -- and I heard this. And guys -- let me tell the viewers what I heard, Liz. I was watching MacNeill when they were playing this 911 call. And for some reason, somebody in the courtroom cut the lights off. I think they thought there was going to be something up on the screen. Everybody turned to the screen.
And I looked at MacNeill as that 911 call played, and he was hearing the moments where his wife allegedly died. He didn`t cry. He didn`t blink an eye. He didn`t look sad, no emotion. In fact, I saw his left jaw just clenching like he was gnashing his teeth, angry to hear that 911 call.
So bottom line -- out to you, Jim Kirkwood, talk show host joining me here in Utah, KTKK -- it was impossible for his story on 911 to be true, Jim, for him to be giving CPR while she`s still in this deep dish bathtub in the water.
JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK (VIA TELEPHONE): I don`t see how possibly it could be true, Nancy. This -- his whole behavior in that call was -- it was -- is staged. It was -- he was -- he was performing. That`s what it sounds like to me.
GRACE: You know, there was a lot more on that. Once EMTs got there to the scene, they said he was making them so uncomfortable, they had to make him leave the room. It was like he was trying to win an Oscar nomination, going, Why did she have the surgery, why did she insist on taking all those medications, when the evidence is that he made her have the surgery and he`s the one that asked for the additional medications.
You know what? I want you to hear it from the horse`s mouth. Liz, let`s go in the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you will learn in the next four, five weeks is that what Alexis does is, she`ll take something with a morsel of truth and she`ll exaggerate it.
For example, you heard the prosecutor state this morning that Martin overmedicated Michele two days after her surgery. And what he did is, he understated that quite a bit. You -- what you will hear is that at a prior hearing, Alexis testified that her mother was so overmedicated, she was in a comatose state until early that evening, and that she didn`t speak until early in the evening. And because of that, she stood vigil by her mother all day, caring for her.
But the objective evidence in this case does not support Alexis`s story. The evidence will show, ladies and gentlemen, that Alexis kept a log of all of the medications that the prosecutor talked about that her mother was taking each day, what she was taking and the time she was taking that medication.
And on the day of this alleged overmedication incident, Alexis put in her log that she was giving her mother medication throughout that day, including pain medication.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, that`s very interesting, Jean Casarez, because the day that her mother died, wasn`t Alexis en route back to medical school? Didn`t she go back to classes?
CASAREZ: She was. She wasn`t there. The last day she was there was April 10th. But even beyond that, Nancy, the log that we know Alexis kept, it was a notebook by the side of the bed -- that went missing. So how does the defense know the exact amounts of what Alexis gave her?
GRACE: You know, I found so many discrepancies in the defense`s opening statement. But if they`re hanging their hat on alibi and hanging their hat on defaming, or you know, some witch hunt against these grown girls that are Michele`s daughters, they got another thought coming. I don`t think that`s going to work with this jury.
Out to the lines, everybody. Right now to Jason. Hi, Jason. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. I got a quick question.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we know if he had an affair with a woman before all this took place?
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! You`re asking, did MacNeill have an affair with a woman before his wife died? Is that your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s my question, yes.
GRACE: OK, Jason, the simple answer is yes. The longer and more thorough answer is that he had taken up with this woman, Gypsy Willis. He told everybody he had cancer, he told some people he had MS, so he could go out of town for, quote, "treatments," so he could be with this woman. He called her and texted her throughout the morning that his wife was found dead. They were having a full-fledged affair.
As a matter of fact, they both had (ph) gone to jail already because he gave this woman -- he got rid of some of his adopted children, tried to send them back to the Ukraine so he could steal their -- one of the girl`s identity and give it to his lover, so she could start over with a clean credit report in his daughter`s name. So they could get false loans. I don`t know how much of that the jury is going to hear. But yes, and this was not his first affair, Jason.
Joining me right now, a very special guest. It`s Laura Bridgewater. This is a friend of Michele MacNeill`s. Laura, thank you for being with us.
LAURA BRIDGEWATER, FRIEND OF VICTIM (via telephone): You`re welcome, Nancy.
GRACE: Laura, here`s my question. I know that MacNeill told everybody he had cancer and was walking around using a cane and would go out of town, for instance, to Tucson for cancer treatments, where he`d meet his girlfriend. But isn`t it true that he also told people he had MS and he was so frail, he couldn`t get Michele out of that water?
BRIDGEWATER: That`s what I heard, was that he said he had MS. I saw him walking around with the cane. Our daughters used to take ballet lessons together, and I would see him sometimes at the ballet studio. I saw him in there with the cane, and he -- I asked other people, not him, but they said he had told them that he had MS. But they also said it confused (ph) because someone else in the room had heard he had cancer.
GRACE: Laura Bridgewater, a dear friend of Michele MacNeill`s -- what was her feeling about getting the facelift her husband was pressuring her to have, Laura?
BRIDGEWATER: She never said anything to me about that facelift, and I don`t think she mentioned it to other people, either. I -- that`s not the sort of thing that I`m aware of Michele usually would do. And I don`t think she wanted people to know she was doing it.
GRACE: Well, she certainly didn`t need it, that`s for sure.
BRIDGEWATER: She was beautiful.
GRACE: Ms. Bridgewater, did you attend the funeral?
BRIDGEWATER: I did, and it was probably the strangest funeral I`ve ever been to. Some of their children spoke, and that was -- it was beautiful, those parts. But when Martin spoke, it was all about himself. And it was really strange.
He talked about past traumas in his life, people who he had lost who died of drug overdoses or suicide. And it was just -- it was all about him. He didn`t honor Michele at all. I don`t know if he wanted us to feel sorry for him, or he wanted us to be amazed that he had turned out so well (INAUDIBLE) such difficult circumstances. It was just -- it was just really bizarre.
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Thank you for being with us. We are live here in Provo. It is day three of the Dr. Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. The jury is in the box, witnesses taking the stand after the state lays out in opening statements just how Dr. Martin MacNeill murdered his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gypsy Willis attended the funeral and even sent the defendant three text messages during the funeral. The two of them exchanged over 20 text messages on the day of Michele`s funeral.
The defendant went back to work very soon after Michele`s death and told various employees that he was doing fine and that things often happen for a reason, that he was OK, and he would be OK. He was also wearing a different wedding band. And when asked about this different ring, he simply said that it was an old ring that he hadn`t worn for a while.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So much happening in blockbuster opening statements and as the first state`s witnesses take the stand. We are live here in Provo and taking your calls.
Let`s take a listen from the courtroom about what happened when the surgery was scheduled.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Welch (ph) agreed to see Michele as a new patient, and an appointment was scheduled for March 29th of 2007. The defendant expressed eagerness to Dr. Welch to have the examination completed without any hiccups so that the surgery could go forward as scheduled.
During this appointment, Dr. Welch was having a hard time communicating with Michele because the defendant was butting in and answering for her. So he asked the defendant to step out so he could talk with Michele alone.
While examining Michele, Dr. Welch learned that she had high blood pressure. And though high blood pressure was not a reason that the surgery could not go forward, Dr. Welch recommended to the defendant and to Michele that surgery be postponed until a time that she could have her blood pressure completely under control. The defendant was disappointed with this recommendation.
On the way to this final appointment, Michele expressed to the defendant that she wanted to have the surgery postponed so that she could lose weight and get her blood pressure under control. The couple argued about this, and the defendant announced that the surgery was already paid for, was already scheduled, and that she was going to do it as scheduled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, basically, he said, "H" with your blood pressure. I`ve already paid for it. You`re going to have the facelift.
I want to go out to Dr. Paul Nassif, facial plastic surgeon and expert in his field joining me out of LA. Doctor, thank you for being with us.
What do you make of what you have just heard, that the doctors told her her blood pressure was high. She wanted to put the surgery off. It was a nearly nine-hour plastic surgery. And her husband said, Oh, no, no, no, no. We`ve already paid for this. You`re going forward with the surgery.
DR. PAUL NASSIF, M.D., F.A.C.S., FACIAL PLASTIC SURGEON: Nancy, I can tell you now, if this was my practice, my patient, the answer is no surgery. It doesn`t matter what the husband says, especially if he`s a physician because, usually, physicians will be controlling. And since there`s no medical clearance, the patient has high blood pressure, it`s a facelift, which can also cause extra bleeding underneath the skin flaps, it`s too dangerous. It could have too many complications.
The answer is no way, nohow. Postpone the surgery. The money will be held. Do it some other time in the future.
GRACE: You know, another thing, Doctor, she was under the knife for nearly nine hours. And when she came out of surgery, her husband, Dr. MacNeill, on trial right behind me, wanted to take her home. He did not want her to stay in the hospital overnight. What`s that all about?
NASSIF: I absolutely don`t know because, first of all, any time you have a facelift, anything over four or five hours, you automatically go to an aftercare facility or a hospital setting. You never go home. And especially if he`s a doctor and her primary care physician, as he mentioned, then he should know better.
GRACE: Why don`t you go home?
NASSIF: (INAUDIBLE) go home. It`s too dangerous.
GRACE: Doctor, why don`t you go...
NASSIF: Because especially after...
GRACE: ... home after a nine-hour surgery?
NASSIF: It`s too dangerous, too many drugs on board. You got to have a nurse. You have to have monitoring. You got to have someone take care of you. You never do that.
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody, day three of the Dr. Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial.
Jean Casarez, I want to get this straight. Didn`t they say it was a full facelift?
CASAREZ: Yes, and I think that`s really significant, Nancy, because this was, just as you said, a nine-hour surgery, nine hours of anesthesiology. But what happened was she had not only her forehead and her jaw, but her eyelids were done, Nancy, the upper and the lower eyelids, which meant they had to be bandaged.
GRACE: Aha, which meant she couldn`t see the prescription drugs he was feeding her and telling her to just swallow it.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Yale Galanter out of Miami, former lawyer for O.J. Simpson -- I don`t know if I`d brag about that, Galanter.
GRACE: Also with me, Jason Lamm, defense attorney out of Phoenix. All right, what about it, Galanter?
YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the prosecution has a tough case, Nancy. They took three years to arrest him. There are three medical examiners who say she died of natural causes. They`re calling it a heart event. Everything else is gossip and innuendo...
GRACE: A heart event?
GALANTER: ... and as we`ve discussed -- a heart event. And as we`ve discussed hundreds of times on this show, because a man cheats on his wife does not make him a murderer. There really is no evidence...
GRACE: I didn`t say anything...
GALANTER: ... of him actually...
GRACE: ... about the cheating. You keep bringing that up.
GALANTER: Well, there`s no evidence as to how this homicide occurred, or even if it was a homicide. And unless the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she died of unnatural causes, they`re going to have a tough row to hoe here.
GRACE: You know what, Jason Lamm? This is just like me pushing you off the side of this parking deck that I`m on top of and saying, You know what...
JASON LAMM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Much as you`d like to do that, I`m sure.
GRACE: ... he had a bad knee.
LAMM: But the fact is, Nancy...
GRACE: ... knee contributed to his fall.
LAMM: But under Utah law, the doctor had to intentionally or knowingly cause his wife`s death. And I`m in complete agreement with Yale.
GRACE: That`s right.
LAMM: They cannot prove causation. Three separate autopsy reports, and not one will say that it`s a homicide. The defense has their own experts that are going to say there are not enough drugs...
GRACE: You know what?
LAMM: ... in her system...
GRACE: You know what? You`re trying to...
LAMM: ... to show...
GRACE: ... mislead the viewers, Jason, the both of you.
LAMM: No, I`m giving...
GRACE: Both of you are...
-- LAMM: ... a complete picture.
GRACE: ... are trying to mislead -- OK, hold. You`re not giving the viewers the complete picture. I`m not saying she died of a lethal cocktail, I`m saying that her daughter says she was down to two Percocet a day when the daughter went to medical school that day, all right? She comes home to find out somebody has fed her mother all these drugs, and she drowned in the bathtub. That`s what I`m saying!
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Thank you for being with us. We are camped here outside the Provo courthouse in the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. The juries in the box, the jury box, and the witnesses have been taking the stand all day after the state lays out in opening statements just how they believe Dr. Martin MacNeill murdered his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While Michele was being worked on, paramedics arrived and began other life saving procedures including intubation and patches to check her vitals for signs of life. While all of these procedures were being employed, the defendant was acting extremely peculiar. He was yelling, screaming and shouting. He would not stay still. He commanded the emergency responders to do certain things and then demanded to know what they were doing.
He also exclaimed, why did she have the surgery? Why did she take all those medications? I told her not to do it. I`m a doctor, she`s dead. I`ve been a bishop, I pay tithe, and this is the way you repay me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`ve been a bishop? I pay my tithe? What did that have to do with his wife laying dead on the floor? Basically telling the EMTs, hey, I`m a doctor, she`s dead, knock it off.
Everybody, we`re live here at the Provo courthouse taking your calls. I want to go back to Dr. Paul Nassif, a facial plastic surgeon joining me out of L.A. Also with me Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist.
Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
First to you, Dr. Arnall. The doctor that took the stand today, it was Dr. Welch. He said he checked out Michele and she did not have heart disease. So the defense lawyers Jason Lamm and Yale Galanter can carry on all they want to about how she died of a heart event. But that`s not what the doctor said today on the stand, Dr. Arnall.
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, I would say that while the -- her physician who did the surgery did not see definitive evidence of heart disease, on the pathology report, there is significant evidence of heart disease, both enlargement of the heart, as well as scarring in the heart. And there`s also atherosclerosis, or hardening of the arteries. So I think that the defense is probably going - -
GRACE: But if she didn`t have -- Dr. Arnall, if she did not have a heart attack, then how did hardening of the arteries kill her? I mean, she`s in the bathtub and when they try to do CPR, quite a quantity of water came out of her lungs and nose. That`s not a heart attack.
ARNALL: I agree that`s not a heart attack. I would say, however, that with this combination of heart problems -- and they also observed a mild carditis or inflammation of the heart -- it`s possible that a person who`s having in distress because of heart problems might succumb if they were immersed in water. She could have slipped below the water and either inhaled or swallowed water inadvertently while she was in distress.
GRACE: Doctor, her little girl said she was fully clothed. This is a climb in a deep dish bathtub. Why would she get in the bathtub to take a bath fully clothed, Doctor? And then just happen to have a heart attack? And then just happen to have five types of medication in her system?
ARNALL: I`m only --
GRACE: Dr. Arnall, I usually agree with you. I`m a little stunned that you would say that this has something to do with her heart. Why would she be in a bathtub fully clothed taking a bath?
ARNALL: Well, I didn`t say this wasn`t a homicide. I merely said that the defense will be supported in their argument by the autopsy report.
GRACE: OK. Dr. Arnall, you know what, you`re right. You`re absolutely right with that.
Out to the lines, Wendy in Maryland. Hi, Wendy, what`s your question? Cindy. Hi, Cindy, what`s your question?
CINDY, CALLER FROM MARYLAND: Hi, Nancy, I wonder if you think -- do you think the women on the jury will be able to overlook MacNeill`s cheating habits?
GRACE: No. And again a cheater, a murderer does not make. However, it does provide motive for murder.
Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me out of L.A.
Dr. Bethany, the defense want me to turn this case bassackwards and say just because he`s a cheater doesn`t mean he`s a killer. I agree with that. But take a look. If he`s a killer, what`s his motive. Cheating. Not only that.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Right.
GRACE: There was all of that fraud he and his girlfriend perpetrated trying to get money illegally from the government. He was doing this all behind his wife`s back. In fact he put on some documents -- isn`t this true, Jean Casarez that he put something about the birthday of Gypsy was the -- what -- he used his wife`s funeral date on some of these documents that he had to fill out to get all this illegal money.
CASAREZ: As his marriage date.
GRACE: The marriage date, that`s right.
CASAREZ: The marriage date that he and Gypsy, he put the funeral date.
GRACE: OK. What does that say, Bethany?
MARSHALL: Nancy, it`s appalling. Two most common motivators for homicide, sex and money, right? But when you think about it, his offending pattern is so prolific. This man cannot help but con, manipulate and scam. Every single interaction with another person is a con. I mean, when he calls 911, he`s screaming, he`s crying. He gives the wrong address.
When the EMTs arrive at the scene, he curses the wife for having had a face lift. When the wife goes -- in the E.R., he offers one of the doctors $10,000 to not stop performing resuscitative measures. He`s constantly conning and manipulating.
And what that tells me is that he has the profile of a sociopath. The sociopath is conning, manipulative, has a parasitic lifestyle. This guy is a master parasite. He`s living off the government, his wife, his children. He`s defrauding everybody.
Sociopaths are profoundly detached. It is -- it`s a disorder of detachment. So he sends four of his kids back? He kills his wife? I mean, he`s not attached to anybody in his life other than the sex object.
GRACE: You know, talk about sending his children back, what she means by that is he tried to un-adopt four of his children that he had adopted, some from the Ukraine.
Unleash the lawyers. Yale Galanter out of Miami, Jason Lamm out of Phoenix.
So, Galanter, I want to hear how you`re going to whitewash -- the two of you are trying to convince me she died of a heart event because we all know she didn`t have a heart attack, all right? I think even the two of you will have to admit that.
So, Galanter, what is she doing in the bathtub with her clothes on? Water in the bathtub?
GALANTER: You know what --
GRACE: It`s not the kind of bathtub you just fall into. You have to crawl over it. It`s like a high hurdle.
GALANTER: Listen, I think that the evidence in this case is definitely going to favor the defense, Nancy. I think the prosecution had trouble.
GRACE: Can you answer that question?
GALANTER: That`s why they didn`t arrest him for years.
GRACE: Answer the question.
GALANTER: Yes, yes, I am getting --
GRACE: Answer the question, Galanter.
GALANTER: I am getting to answer the question. I think she had overmedicated herself. I think she got into the bathtub. I think she did have a heart event. She ingested water, and that`s why they were doing CPR on her. The water came out. Not only is the defense going to show that she had various heart issues, they`re also going to show that she didn`t have a lethal cocktail of medicine in her, enough that it would have stopped her heart or would have killed her. So the prosecution has got to prove two things.
GRACE: Yes. You`re right. Jason --
GALANTER: Remember, they`ve got to prove -- they`ve got to prove what occurred. And they have to prove who done it. So in this case, it may be the victim who self-ingested the medication herself. You know, it doesn`t have to be the daughter --
GRACE: Yes, and you know what, Jason?
GALANTER: It doesn`t have to be the husband, it could have been her.
GRACE: Jason Lamm, it could have been -- it could have been little green men from Mars, OK? Because she told her daughter --
GALANTER: But the prosecution has got the burden of proof, Nancy.
GRACE: That she was afraid her husband was cheating --
GALANTER: And there`s no evidence that it occurred here.
GRACE: I keep hearing something while I`m talking. It`s Galanter.
Lamm, she just told her husband -- she told her -- excuse, told her daughter she was afraid her husband was going to kill her. That morning all she had taken --
LAMM: Yes, but, Nancy, that doesn`t come into evidence. That`s wonderful. In the court of public opinion, it`s a wonderful evidence. But it`s not coming in.
GRACE: You want me to pretend -- no, no, that`s not what I`m talking about, Lamm. I`m talking about the truth. Just because this judge ruled it out that doesn`t mean it didn`t happen. I`m talking about the truth.
LAMM: Well, then to hell with the justice system.
LAMM: We don`t need the jury, we`ll have you, Nancy, decide everything.
Nancy, the bottom --
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are camped outside the courthouse and taking your calls. Day three of the Martin MacNeill face lift murder trials.
Out to Matt Zarrell, also on the story. Matt, it hasn`t come into evidence yet, but what do we know about the will?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Nancy, we`ve uncovered the will. The will was made or at least revised a couple months after Michele MacNeill`s death. And it reveals that MacNeill wanted all of his children each to have one dollar, just one dollar. All the rest of his possessions go to Jillian G. MacNeill, also known as Gypsy.
GRACE: All righty. Let the lawyers loose again. Galanter, Lamm, let`s have Jean Casarez and Bethany Marshall as well.
Did you hear that, Galanter?
GALANTER: I did.
GRACE: As soon as his wife dies he moves the mistress immediately as the baby-sitter. He reads out his will -- leaves all of his children one dollar each. At least the ones he hasn`t tried to ship back to the Ukraine, and leaves everything to his mistress. That doesn`t bother you?
GALANTER: Nancy, this murder case is not about whether he`s a decent man or he`s a jerk as his lawyers have said.
GRACE: I asked you a question.
GALANTER: This is about whether or not the state -- I`m answering it. This is about whether or not the state of Utah can, A, prove a homicide occurred and that the doctor committed that homicide. And we haven`t discussed one iota of evidence that`s going to be admissible in front of this jury that says or proves that he murdered his wife.
The fact that he changed his will months after --
GRACE: You know what`s interesting.
GALANTER: -- and left a dollar to his adopted children doesn`t mean anything. You know, it`s not what I would do, it`s not what you would do.
GRACE: Well, you know what --
GALANTER: But that doesn`t mean he committed a murder.
GRACE: I understand, Yale. I got your point.
Jean -- Jean, not only a correspondent, but a lawyer as well.
Jean, we all know that the judge is going to instruct the jury that they could take into account the defendant`s behavior, before, during and after the incident. And making this will out after his lawyers -- after his own daughters suspect him of murder, his changes his will to cut them out of it once they become suspicious of him, Jean.
CASAREZ: But Yale was right. The judge made a pretrial ruling and the jury is not going to hear that he disinherited his children. But what the jury might hear, and this favors the defense, that the children, especially Rachel, turning against her father like she did, is called an emotional condition, and it`s based in fallacy but not fact.
GRACE: In other words, in other words, he`s going to -- the defense is going to villainize the daughters because they are accusing their father of murder.
Let`s go into the courtroom. Take a listen to what happened behind me in the courthouse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will also hear from him that travel time from the Utah state developmental to the MacNeill house takes anywhere from three minutes and seven seconds to seven minutes and 23 seconds, depending on speed and traffic conditions.
You will also hear that the time it takes to get from the MacNeill home to Ada`s school is somewhere between four minutes and 52 seconds, and five minutes and one second.
It was less than an hour after the defendant attended the Safety Fair that he called 911 while Ada ran to the neighbors to get help. You will also hear from a renowned medical examiner Dr. Joshua Perper, who reviewed Michele`s heart slides from the autopsy --
GRACE: OK. Out to Jim Kirkwood, talk show host, KTKK. Also with me, Jean Casarez and Matt Zarrell.
Jim, what do you make of his alibi?
JIM KIRKWOOD, NEWS SHOW HOST, KTKK: His alibi is focused on the timeline. But as you just heard on -- from the prosecution, the distances are very short, he certainly had plenty of time to go and drown her if that`s what he did. There`s no problem. We`re talking about very quick travel times here.
GRACE: Jean, explain.
CASAREZ: The timeline is extremely important, that narrow focus, so that morning that she died on April 11th. But it wasn`t the prosecution that focused in on the timeline. It was the defense, it can be in their favor.
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live here in Provo. Thank you for being with us.
Matt Zarrell, I want to go back to that alibi. He was at a health fair about three minutes away from home when his wife drowned in the bathtub. What do you make of it?
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, what the state is alleging is that there will be witnesses and employees who will testify that MacNeill was insistent that not only he be photographed, but that he be seen by multiple people at the safety fair, apparently accepting an award, and one employee is going to testify that he never wanted to be at these safety fairs. They had them every year. He never would show up for them, but this one he wanted to be there for.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Lisa, Illinois. Hi, Lisa. What`s your question?
LISA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. I just needed some clarification. I heard earlier today that this doctor was a psychiatrist? Is that true? I`m just a little bit perplexed by his behavior if he is one.
GRACE: Yes. You know what, Lisa, I heard that, too. One of the plastic surgeons said that he believed MacNeill was a psychiatrist.
To Laura Bridgewater, this is a dear friend of Michele`s, he was not a psychiatrist, was he?
LAURA BRIDGEWATER, MICHELE MACNEILL`S FRIEND: Not that I know of.
GRACE: Yes, Jean Casarez, did you hear that? Apparently, he represented himself as being a psychiatrist.
CASAREZ: I definitely did. Definitely heard it. He told the plastic surgeon, Dr. Thompson who performed that facelift, that he was that psychiatrist. He`s not a psychiatrist. No explanation why he said it.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Paul Nassif, facial plastic surgeon in L.A., also with me, Dr. Michael Arnall, forensic pathologist out of Denver.
Doctors, again, thank you for being with us.
Dr. Nassif, we heard lately of so many women that have, for instance, gone home too soon or died following extensive plastic surgery. Nine hours is a long time to have somebody under, and then the doctor wanting her to go home so he could take care of her? Do you find that odd at all?
DR. PAUL NASSIF, FACIAL PLASTIC SURGEON: Absolutely, Nancy. I mean, first of all, just to let you know, by a full face-lift, which is brows, middle face, lower part of the face, neck, eyes, it is eight or nine hours of surgery, and it`s standard of care for all of us not to let that patient go home. So I find it very odd, especially because he`s a physician, he should know better. Depending on what type of physician he is, it doesn`t matter in this situation.
GRACE: And to you, Dr. Arnall, what do you make of that, a nine-hour of surgery, and then he wants her to go home so he can take care of her?
ARNALL: You know, while there is a possibility that this surgeon believed that because he was releasing this lady to another physician, it might be OK. Indeed, there are all sorts of complications unique to prolonged surgery, and the prudent physician would have kept this woman in the hospital at least overnight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant invited Eileen and his son, Damien, who was Eileen`s boyfriend, to come into the master bedroom and said that they needed to account for all of Michele`s medications and that he needed to do that in front of someone.
The defendant, who, in addition to being a doctor, is also a lawyer, explained that he wanted the pills disposed of because he did not want to see them anymore, because he was concerned and felt that they had something to do with her death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sounds like he wanted a witness. You know, another thing, Jean Casarez, that you noticed about the doctor claiming he performed CPR on Michele, explain to the viewers what you caught.
CASAREZ: Well, this is after the neighbors came over and even law enforcement came to the scene. They saw him giving CPR to his wife and they saw that there was froth and mucus on her nose and mouth, but they never saw it transferred to his mouth. And also, her chest didn`t start to go up at all after that CPR he allegedly was giving her.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop. We remember American hero, Army Specialist Bryn Raver, just 20, Harrison, Arkansas. National Defense Medal, Service Ribbon, NATO medal. Loved the outdoors, camping, fishing, father, Charles, brothers Justin and Brandon, widow Kelly, serving the army, daughter Alicia.
Bryn Raver, American hero.
Everybody, court is done for the day. "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, goodnight, friend.