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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Boston Marks Six Month Anniversary of Bombing; Two Florida Prisoners Released Based on Forged Documents; Kendrick Johnson Was Not Alone When He Died; Interview with the Father of Edward Snowden; Utah Doctor Accused of Murdering Wife; New Book Gives Fresh Insight on Lance Armstrong; No Charges for Firefighter in Crash Survivor's Death; New York Police: We Aren't After Bansky; Malala Meets the Queen
Aired October 18, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a 360 exclusive, the father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden speaks out, only on CNN. He's just back from Russia after finally seeing his son face-to-face. Does he still think Russia is the best place for his son? Does he think he'll ever see him again? We'll talk to him about all of that.
Plus, how could this possibly happen? Two convicted murderers serving life sentences with no parole, both walked out of prison, easy as pie. They used phony documents. The reward for their capture just got higher. We'll have the latest on the manhunt, as well as the outrage.
We begin though, with something that most likely passed you by this week while most of the country was focused on the government shutdown, Boston marked the six month anniversary, the bombing that shattered so many lives. Three people died, of course, more than 260 others were injured. The city came to a standstill but not for long. Boston is strong. It's moving on though it hasn't forgotten and of course, never will.
Today, a temporary memorial to officer Sean Callier was unveiled on MIT campus. Authorities say he was killed by the suspect Tamerlan and Dzhorkhar Tsarnaev as they fled.
Half a year later, the survivors are trying to put their lives back together, refusing to be defined by that day. They are truly all Boston strong. One of them is Adrianne Haslet-Davis, a professional dance instructor. We met in the days after the bombing and agreed to let us film her recovery. She lost her lower left leg in the bombing and she has vowed she will dance again. Her husband Adam was also injured.
Tonight, we want to show you how far Adrianne has come. She told us she didn't want to sugarcoat her story so, our warning, some of the video she shot may be hard to watch but Adrianne feel strongly that it is important for people to really understand what survivors of the bombing are really going through.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want me to tell you each time I'm going to poke or not to tell you? ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS, BOSTON BOMBING SURVIVOR: No, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
HASLET-DAVIS: Ouch, ouch, ouch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We'll take a break on that one.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: How am I doing, Adam?
ADAM DAVIS, BOSTON BOMBING SURVIVOR: You're good, baby.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: Is it scary looking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at all.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: You know, I'm realizing that this is going to be my leg now once the stitches come out, that means that it's all permanent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It's OK. It's OK. You're alive.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And strong.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: I'm on my way to a prosthesis appointment, still working on that word, and they are going to fit me for my leg. So exciting. You and those two legs walking all fast. I'm so going to race you. Later.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right so I'll grab you leg.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: Oh my God, she said leg. I'm so excited. Oh my God. Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here is your foot. Look at the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is like seeing my child walk for the first time again. It's pretty emotional and it's pretty exciting but she's a star. She's amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So stand up for me. Does it hurt?
ADAM HASLET-DAVIS: No, she's standing on her own.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what do you feel? What I need you to differentiate -- are you OK? Doing good. At your own speed.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: OK. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: It feels really good just to stand upright now. I haven't stood up in a really long time. I almost forgot what it felt like. It reminds me of dancing and I just so desperately want that again and I'm so close. It feels really good.
ADAM HASLET-DAVIS: Love you.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: Love you, too, thanks.
ADAM HASLET-DAVIS: Pretty sexy.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: Is it sexy?
Navigating the streets of Boston for the first time, it was really tough. I thought everybody had a bomb. I hate even saying things like that out loud because it sounds crazy, but I would just -- I had horrible anxiety. Obviously, I know now that the, you know, majority of the population isn't like the two bombers, but it's hard. I mean, I don't know when or if that will go away.
They lit fireworks over the harbor and all of the sudden we heard explosions. I thought we were going to die. I started screaming and crying and called 911.
ADAM HASLET-DAVIS: Can you please have somebody stop setting off fireworks? Please.
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: We keep calling stop with the fireworks.
ADAM HASLET-DAVIS: The fireworks in the harbor, stop them. OK. Was your foot blown off like my wife's was in the (bleep) bombing?
ADRIANNE HASLET-DAVIS: I have gone through many, many stages and not only of PTSD but also of mourning the loss of my leg. I remember waking up many mornings and just bawling and just crying and just being so sad. I've never felt that feeling of sadness. And I'm on the other side of sadness. I'm coming close to acceptance, but I'm not there yet.
Today, Adam and I are going to talk to the prosecuting team about the case, and we are going through every gruesome detail leading up to the moment of the bombing, everything from what it felt like to the injuries. They want to know how it's impacted us, how has it not, really? They want to know if we would like them to seek the death penalty, which has been weighing heavy on our hearts.
I always questioned whether I would be able to be in the same courtroom as him. But, you know, if they need me there, I'll be there and justice needs to be done. I don't think about him often, but today is the day I have to.
Seven, eight -- I think I'm further than I thought I would be in six months. I remember just getting my prosthetic and thinking it would take forever and then also in the same time thinking, you know, I've got to do this. I had made a very strong point to not dwell on the people that did this. I insist on being called a survivor and not a victim. A victim gives them ownership on me. I'm not having that. That means that I somehow belong to somebody or I'm suffering because of him, and I'm not suffering. I'm thriving.
COOPER: She and her husband have come a very long way in six months. As you just heard, Adrianne and Adam are helping investigators build their case.
Tonight, there is a lot to bring you up to date on that case. CNN's Susan Candiotti joins me now.
So, what is the latest on the case against the bomber?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Anderson, I hope you don't mind but I had a chance to meet Adrianne the first time she got out of rehab and saw the memorial for a first time, and that was such a powerful story, what a remarkable young woman she is.
CANDIOTTI: She sure is.
Here is where the case stands, Tsarnaev who is accused of doing this to her, passed one birthday in jail so he's now 20-years-old. He faces that 30-count indictment. And right now, we're slogging along in the investigation. The federal government, the prosecutors, are still waiting to decide by the end of this month whether they will indeed seek the death penalty, ultimately it's up to attorney general Holder to decide that. However, the defense gets to weigh in. They wanted more time. And just today, a federal judge said I'm not going to get involved in that dispute.
COOPER: And what about Kathryn Russell, the widow of the other brother?
CANDIOTTI: Well, she is living quietly with her parents in Rhode Island. She has a lawyer and as far as we know she continues to cooperate with investigators. We know that her in-laws have testified before a grand jury, spent about four hours there just last month. So, we're waiting to see what else might develop with her --
COOPER: At this point no charges against her?
CANDIOTTI: Not yet.
COOPER: All right, Susan Candiotti, thanks very much.
Again, a long journey for so many people. We are going to continue to follow Adrianne's journey of recovery in the months ahead culminating an hour-long special report on the one year anniversary of the bombings. We look forward to certainly sharing her and her family's progress with you.
Let us know what you think. You can follow me on Twitter @andersoncooper. Tweet at #AC360.
Coming up tonight, "360" exclusive. I'm going to speak with NSA leaker Edward Snowden's father just after Snowden told the "New York Times" there is no chance documents he got a-hold of ended up in Russian or Chinese hands. Lon Snowden, his dad, just got back from seeing his son in Russia for the first time, the first time they met face-to-face and talked since all this began. We'll talk to Lon ahead.
Also tonight, the latest on the man haunt for these two convicted murders who simply walked out of floor of prison because of forged released documents.
There is also breaking news tonight about the death of 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson found dead in a Georgia high school gym. We got new information about surveillance footage from the school. The latest on that.
COOPER: We got breaking news tonight, the Kendrick Johnson case. Johnson is the teenager whose death was initially called an accident, the body found rolled up in a wrestling mat in a Georgia high school. Now, his parents never bought that story and had another autopsy done and found he died of blunt force trauma.
Victor Blackwell as been following the case closely. HE has breaking news tonight about from surveillance footage from the high school. He joins me now.
So, what did you found out about the footage?
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, CNN has confirmed that Kendrick Johnson was not alone inside the gym the day investigators say he died. And that's coming to us from an attorney for the school district. The Johnsons do not believe, as you said, the story officially of how their son died. So, they want to see the surveillance video.
We've also asked for that surveillance video. We've been told by the school district that they don't have to release it because it contains educational records of students. So, we asked the obvious but very specific follow-up question. And here it is. I'm going to read it in the letter I wrote to the superintendent.
Are minors for whom Lowndes county schools has not received consent to release educational records depicted in the surveillance images recorded inside the old gym, and that's where this is at Lowndes high school on January 10th, 2013 between 1:09 p.m. and 1:20 p.m. We chose 1:09 because that's the time this picture was taken.
In a response for the attorney for the school district. He writes. I answer your pointed question with yes. So confirmation that Kendrick was not alone in the gym.
COOPER: So the school was saying the students were in the gym, but authorities have not been clear on this, right?
BLACKWELL: They have not been. Lieutenant Stride Jones is really been the face of this investigation for the Lowndes County sheriff's office, at least for the media. And we have the official record from the Georgia bureau of investigation from the medical examiner's office and may recounted conversation with Stride Jones on January 16th and here it is.
The decency dent was seen on the school video going into the gym around 13:00 hours alone. The video did not show any other children or staff in the gym with the decedent at the time.
So, here he is telling the state that Kendrick was alone and there was no one else as seen in the gym with him at that time.
Here is what Stride Jones told about (INAUDIBLE) daily times on May 4th. He comes down the hallway and essentially he enters the gym. He is following another kid. The first kid comes in, goes to the left, Kendrick goes in and off to the right towards the corner where the mats are.
A clear discrepancy between those two statements. But if you look at the pictures, Anderson, of Kendrick that had been supplied, Kendrick is not running off to the left. He's running -- he's in the runs to the right I would say, he's running to the left in those corners. So, we're still waiting for some clarity from the Lowndes County sheriff's office about that. But tonight an answer for the Johnsons, their son was not alone in that gym.
COOPER: Victor, thank you very much. Really fascinating development. And so many questions remain unanswered in this, why authorities didn't test the blood that was found on the walls, possible blood on sneakers, as well.
Tonight, authorities in Florida are searching for two convicted murders, mistakenly set free. They are offering a reward at $10,000 a piece for information leading to the arrest.
Charles Walker and Joseph Jenkins were confined to the same prison serving life sentences without the possibility of parole. But phony documents containing forged signatures, including a judge's signature ordered their release couple of weeks ago.
So effective immediately, state prison officials will no longer set free any inmate whose sentence has been reduced unless a judge independently verifies the release order. And get this, after they got out, both men went to the Orange County jail to register as felons. Officials are now reviewing prison records to see if any other inmates got out from false documents.
John Zarrella joins us now from Orlando.
So, everybody is looking for these two guys, what is the latest?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest, Anderson, is really that was the height of arrogance that these two within days of their release, both showed up here and filled out that paperwork registering with the state they were here, obviously, so that they would deflect any potential attention towards them. Now, the sheriff here in Orange County a couple hours ago held a press conference and said, he does believe that both men are still in the area. They have also put up billboards now with that $10,000 reward on those billboards, and the sheriff says it was their intelligence they have that leads them to believe that the two men are still here -- Anderson.
COOPER: It's so obvious you think a judge should independently verify, you know, a faxed document or letter sent to a prison. What are authorities saying about this, because it's still stunning they were able to walk out?
ZARRELLA: Well, you know what, Anderson, it's what authorities aren't saying. Other than the sheriff, nobody is really talking. The state attorney's office has refused our request for an interview. The department of corrections has refused our request for interviews. We did talked to the clerk of the court here and the clerk told us listen, we just file the paperwork. The clerk's concern to us was we don't know how the paperwork got in the system. It could have been put in a drop box. It could have been brought from the judge's office, or from the state attorney's office. But they, they said, don't know how it got in the system.
COOPER: Could there be other people, other prisoners who have had forged documents and gotten out?
ZARRELLA: Yes, big question. In fact, the day before the second of the two guys was released, the state filed charges in an almost identical case against an inmate in another prison who tried to pull the exact same scam filing paperwork that basically said that there would be a motion to correct an illegal sentence. So that paperwork was filed but it was caught. So they are certainly concerned that there are others trying to pull the same scam.
COOPER: Incredible. John Zarrella, appreciate it. Thanks.
For more in the story, you can go CNN.com.
Up next, my exclusive interview with the father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden. He just returned from a visit with his son in Russia. It is the first time they talked face-to-face. He is going to tell me how he believes his son is doing.
Also ahead, today's testimony in Utah on the trial of Dr. Martin McNeill, who is accused of murdering his wife.
COOPER: Tonight a "360" exclusive, in a moment I'll speak with the father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden who just returned from Russia where his son has been granted asylum. His father is speaking out just as the "the New York Times" published his extensive interview with the former National Security Agency contractor.
In that interview, Snowden said that he did not take any secret documents with them when he fled to Russian in June. Instead, he says he gave all the classified documents he got his hands on to journalist and did not keep any copies. Snowden says quote "there is a zero percent chance the Russians or Chinese have received any documents." He didn't give details of what his life is like in Moscow other than he's not under government control and is free to move around, he says.
Edward Snowden's father just come back from Russia where he spent time with his son for the first time since this all happen. I spoke earlier this evening with Lon Snowden in a "360" exclusive.
COOPER: You were able to finally see your son. What was that like?
LON SNOWDEN, EDWARD SNOWDEN'S FATHER: It was an emotional moment. It was something I wanted desperately to do since June 9th when the story first broke and to see him walk into the room, I was already present where we were going to meet initially, it was really uplifting.
COOPER: Was this the first time you've actually been able to talk to him directly?
SNOWDEN: Yes, yes.
COOPER: I'm not going to obviously ask you details of where he's staying or if you knew that because I don't want to, obviously, you don't want to do anything that will endanger his safety or locate him, but what can you say about his life there?
SNOWDEN: I think it was very good. I was persistent in saying Ed, I don't want you to tell me what I think I want to hear, you know, are you OK? You know, I wondered, you know, where he lays his head at night, you know, every night when I go to bed is he laying his head on a dirt floor? But he is living comfortably and he has quite a support system. And unlike many people who suggested that he's under the control of the Russian government, that's absolutely not the case.
COOPER: He made clear in recent interview in "The New York Times" that he said he absolutely did not give any information to the Russians. That he didn't actually even have any of the classified documents on him when he left Hong Kong. And he did that consciously that he'd given them away and he is confident the Chinese aren't able to get a-hold of them because he himself was involved into looking into the Chinese intelligence capabilities. Did he talk to you about that?
SNOWDEN: Yes, he did. I ask about that, and I can tell you on day one when my son -- the news broke on June 9th, June 10th, the FBI was in my home and I specifically told them that there was no question in my mind, of course, this is a father talking but I know my son. I said my son would die before he would sell secrets to a foreign government that would harm his country. I know that for a fact. You know, his intention, if it was to profit, he would be in a much different circumstance now. If his desire to profit from this, he would have already signed a book deal. He's not interested in doing that -- COOPER: He could have gone on television programs and been paid by television programs around the world and done stuff and he hasn't done any of that.
SNOWDEN: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, he told me through other communications long ago and again, as dad, I did not do this to be safe. You need to let everyone know don't worry about me. I am committed to this. I didn't do this to be safe. I did it because it's the right thing to do. I could not live with what I've been exposed to, you know, live the rest of his life with that knowing that he did not share that.
COOPER: Does he have any regrets at this point?
SNOWDEN: He says he has absolutely no regrets, none.
COOPER: It sounds like your son or that the information your son has given to Glenn Greenwald and others, that there is still a lot more still to come. Glenn Greenwald said it on this program, I think last night saying that there is a lot more information he's still going through, a lot more information that will surprise people.
SNOWDEN: Right. Glenn has that "The New York Times" any information (INAUDIBLE). " the Guardian," so yes, my understanding is there is much, much more to come.
COOPER: There are a lot of people out there who still believe your son committed treason. Your son has done something that's done real damage to the real interest of the United States of America. After seeing him, what do you say to those people?
SNOWDEN: I would say to them is you have a right to your opinion, but I would ask that you make sure that it's an informed opinion and the problem is at this point is they don't have all the facts, nor do I. But I know that I spent hours upon hours every day researching articles, abetting the truth, researching companies. There is far more to this. Far more to this that is going to be touched.
COOPER: Are you proud of your son?
SNOWDEN: I'm absolutely proud of my son. It could bring me to tears. I'm so proud of my son because I know what he sacrificed. I know who he is. I held him as a child. He's the same person, and he's a man of character. And no matter what happens, I know he loves his country. I know he's a humanist. I know that he's not so centric or blinded by nationalism that he looks at people in other countries as something less, that he looks at us as we are exceptional to the degree that others are lesser than us.
COOPER: What did you say to him when you left him? How do you say good-bye.
SNOWDEN: It occurred pretty quickly. Again, it was the same way we left back in April when we were in the shadow of the NSA, the last time we seen in the states. We hugged, it was I love you dad, I love you son, but I know I'll see him again. COOPER: Lon Snowden, thank you so much for talking.
SNOWDEN: Thank you very much, Anderson.
COOPER: Coming up tonight, the latest in the trial of a Utah doctor accused of killing his wife to be with his mistress, what neighbors say they saw the day Michelle Macneill died next.
Also later tonight, new insight into the rise and especially the fall of Lance Armstrong, how he was able to hide doping for so long and pull off what authors call "The Greatest Sports Conspiracy Ever." I'm going to speak with the authors of a fascinating new book called "Wheel Man" when we continue.
COOPER: Crime and punishment, medicine, the mistress and possible murder. Day two of a trial in Utah where Dr. Martin Macneill is charged with murder and obstruction of justice in the 2007 death of his wife, Michelle. At the time it was attributed of natural causes due to cardiovascular disease, but some of her eight children didn't buy it and three years later, a new analysis reopened the case and the whole thing started to unravel.
At the center of case involving multiple bizarre twists and turns, prosecutors say that Dr. Martin Macneill was living a double life and his desire for the murder was to be with his mistress, Gypsy. His neighbors described the day and what they saw the day Michelle was found dead. Jean Casarez has more.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Neighbor Christy Daniels recounted the tragic moments after Michelle Macneill was found unresponsive in her bathtub. She had been called to the home by the youngest daughter, Ada.
KRISTI DANIELS, NEIGHBOR: I saw that Michelle was in the tub and Martin was over the tub. Her head was right here and her feet -- her legs were over here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there water in it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see any blood?
CASAREZ: No blood but the prosecutor says definitely murder. Prosecutor Sam Peed said Michelle was dead because her husband of nearly 30 years, Dr. Martin Macneill killed her and used his medical knowledge to pull it off. The motive, Macneill was carrying on an affair with Gypsy Willis who moved into the Macneill home as a nanny shortly after Michelle's death.
Macneill he says was so determined to move forward with the murder plot that he forced his wife to have a facelift so he could kill her with a mix of drugs and blame it on the surgery. Michelle went ahead with the surgery on April 3rd. Eight days later, her husband was calling 911.
MACNEILL: My wife has fall p in the bathtub.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Who is in the bathtub?
MACNEILL: My wife.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Is she conscious?
MACNEILL: She's not. I'm a physician.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Sir, I need you to calm -- sir, I can't understand you. OK, can you calm down just a bit?
MACNEILL: I need help.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: OK, your wife is unconscious?
MACNEILL: She's unconscious. She's under water.
CASAREZ: Prosecutors brought in a bathtub similar to the one in the Macneill home so witnesses could demonstrate how Michelle was found. Kristi's husband, Doug, said Macneill instructed them when they were trying to revive her.
DOUG DANIELS, MARTIN MACNEILL'S NEIGHBOR: And then he threw his hands in the air twice and say why, why would you do this? All because of a stupid surgery and he would say OK, continue. So I continued to -- doing chest compressions.
CASAREZ: Medical examiners found several powerful drugs in her system, including Valium, Percocet and Ambien. Dr. Scott Thompson who performed Michelle's facelift told the court that Macneill had great influence on Michelle's prescriptions and the combination of drugs given to her could be dangerous if taken together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it your intention that Michelle take all these drugs together?
DR. SCOTT THOMPSON, PLASTIC SURGEON WHO DID MICHELE'S FACELIFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you have prescribed this combination to her if Martin was not a physician?
CASAREZ: For months leading up to his wife's death. Macneill was telling neighbors and leaders of the church he had cancer and didn't have long to live, but prosecutors say it was a roost, one he continued at his dead wife's funeral. SAM PEAD, UTAH COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Prior to the funeral, the defendant was seen unloading boxes of Michelle's memorabilia and walking around without difficulty. However, when following the casket, the defendant exhibited a profound limp and walked with a cane.
CASAREZ: What did he tell his neighbor just days after her death?
KRISTI DANIELS: He told me that she died of some kind of heart problem like the basketball player that just died over on the court. I asked him, I said well, Martin, how are you doing because I heard you only had like six months to live? And he said something to the effect of, you know, don't write me off yet, I'm still here now.
CASAREZ: In fact, Macneill was already introducing his mistress around town saying she was the new nanny.
DOUG DANIELS: At first it was very vague and then we learned that she was the nanny and then eventually, as everybody could tell that the relationship was more than that, as to whether or not they were getting married.
COOPER: Jean Casarez joins me now live from Utah. He sounded so frantic on the 911 call. How did the neighbors describe his mood when they arrived?
CASAREZ: They really said he was frantic. They said he was instructive as all the neighbors started to help with the CPR. They said as he had his head buried on top of Michelle's mouth, allegedly giving her CPR then he would stop and raise his hands and say why did you have that surgery? What about those medications?
One of the first responders said that he was absolutely erratic and that he was concerned about his safety thinking he had to defend himself at some point because Dr. Macneill was so frantic. The other side to that is this is a man losing his wife and although he had that other life he's still losing the mother of his eight children.
COOPER: Were the witness accounts the same as how they found Michelle in the bathtub?
CASAREZ: They were. They really were. All of the neighbors said when they got there, Michelle's face was next to the faucet in the bathtub and her feet was laid out to the end of the bathtub, but here is what could be significant. The prosecution has Dr. Joshua Perper, a medical examiner, who will testify that he believes the immediate cause of death was drowning.
One neighbor said her clothes were dry and her hair was dry except for the tips of her hair was wet. Another neighbor said her clothes maybe could have been damp. The officer says her clothes were drenched. So you have eyewitnesses all over the map here.
COOPER: That's confusing. Jean Casareaz, appreciate it. Thanks. Joining me now is criminal defense attorney, Danny Cevallos and Prosecutor Paul Henderson. So Paul, none of the medical examiners that inspected the wife's body concluded that she was the victim of homicide. How badly does that weaken the prosecution's case?
PAUL HENDERSON, VETERAN PROSECUTOR: A report, obviously, that the prosecution will have to deal with but obviously, what they will be doing is putting those witnesses on that made that report and presenting to them new evidence or evidence in a different way that may not have been considered when that report was drafted.
So for instance, I'm presuming that what they are likely to do is talk about what the medical examiner and ask him look, we know that these drugs influenced her death. Would it have made a difference to you at the time if you were aware that someone else was directly responsible for identifying which drugs that she was going to be taking and those were drugs that that doctor would not have normally ordered for her? These are all things that the new -- that the medical examiner will be commenting on.
HENDERSON: That will be different from the evidence that he evaluated when he first made the report six years ago and now they are looking at this with fresh eyes.
COOPER: Danny, the defense is saying you may think this guy is a jerk, but it doesn't make him a killer. Is it difficult for juries to make that distinction?
DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I'll go a step further, and we've seen cases like this. This doctor is guilty of creepiness and happy his wife is dead to engage in shenanigans with his mistress. We've seen cases like this before. The question is, can the prosecution get by the biggest problem they have is not one, not two, but three of the prosecution's medical examiner experts concluded that cardiac arrhythmia may have caused the death and you wonder if that will get them to the reasonable doubt the defense needs. The only thing is recently in other cases, we've seen similar evidence be enough for conviction. So it is a question of whether the science will be enough for this jury.
COOPER: Paul, the prosecution says their plan on calling it several inmates will testify Macneill told them he was responsible for his wife's death and the cops wouldn't be able to pin it on him. I mean, does testimony from inmates hold a lot of weight?
HENDERSON: Well, it matters. It depends. Each case is unique but as a juror, when you hear information like that, you have to weigh and consider it. You have to push this jury to try to present evidence to them to show them just how much influence he had on her exact death. It wasn't just that she had a heart attack.
It was she had a heart attack because of these drugs and when they make the connections and connect the dots to show how he was involved and not just what drugs she took, but how she actually took the drugs, I think they are going to weigh and consider that. And it's going to hurt him and the statements like that that come in against him are certainly not going to help him in his defense. It's got to be something they have to consider and makes a difference in the case.
COOPER: What about the presence of this mistress, Gypsy?
CEVALLOS: We've seen many defendants, unfortunately, in America it's a fact of life people engage in nonsense with mistresses and whoever and we've seen a lot of defendants, that's the prosecution's chief motive here and the prosecution has to hope that motive is so powerful and his behavior is so odd and unexplainable it will get them over the fact they do not have since in the favor.
You look for the defense to hammer home the fact that each of these medical examiners never conclusively really said that cardiac arrhythmia could be ruled out as a cause of death. At most, the first medical examiner said natural causes.
COOPER: Danny Cevallos, good to have you on. Paul Henderson as well, thanks.
Up next, a new book documents the extent of Lance Armstrong's doping scandal. It's an amazing book, been reading it and not only about Lance Armstrong, but about all the other people that helped the disgraced cyclist cover it up for so many years. We'll talk to the authors ahead.
COOPER: Day two of a trial in Utah where Dr. Martin Macneill is charged with murder and obstruction of justice in the 2007 death of his wife, Michelle. At the time it was attributed of natural causes due to cardiovascular disease, but some of her eight children didn't buy it and three years later, a new analysis reopened the case and the whole thing started to unravel.
At the center of case involving multiple bizarre twists and turns, prosecutors say that Dr. Martin Macneill was living a double life and his desire for the murder was to be with his mistress, Gypsy. His neighbors described the day and what they saw the day Michelle was found dead. Now many of us have asked was it worth it all that line. Armstrong's amazing career, what we were led to believe was an amazing career ruins, his reputation, a new book called "WheelMen: Lance Armstrong the Tour de France and the Greatest Sports Conspiracy Ever" explains how he got away with doping so long and who helped him.
It's written by Vanessa O'Connell and Reed Albergotti, reporters for the "Wall Street Journal."
COOPER: I think a lot of people, I mean, the last time they really paid attention to Lance Armstrong was when Oprah was interviewing him. I want to play a little bit of what he said. Let's play that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH: Yes or no, did you ever take banned substances to enhance your cycling performance?
LANCE ARMSTRONG: Yes.
OPRAH: Yes or no, in all seven of your Tour de France victories, did you ever take banned substances or blood dope?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So he said a lot, but there was a lot he didn't say. What were some of the major things that he didn't go into?
REED ALBERGOTTI, AUTHOR, "WHEELMEN": Well, I mean, I think he didn't talk about the people who around him who helped him for 14 years cover up this massive doping conspiracy.
COOPER: He didn't talk about how -- how it all transpired?
ALBERGOTTI: Right, people who helped him, the enablers, the people who, you know, the governing bodies of cycling, like the UCI that took donations from him. You know, that is -- to us that is really the interesting thing about this story is it's not just the doping, it's all the stuff around the doping.
COOPER: And that's -- I mean, you really get into this in the book. The sheer number of people who had an interest in protecting Lance Armstrong and protecting sort of Lance incorporated as you refer to it.
VANESSA O'CONNELL, AUTHOR, "WHEELMEN": Yes, we've always viewed this as a business story. It's more than just doping and cycling or doping and sport. We view this as a story about a business enterprise, essentially, and cheating was at the heart of it.
COOPER: Did the fact that he also had this charity? Did he use that to kind of blunt criticism of him or suspicion of him?
ALBERGOTTI: Absolutely. The Lance Armstrong Foundation, which is now known as the Live Strong Foundation after this scandal really was his shield. I mean, he was fighting cancer. He wasn't just an athlete. He was above all that and that really in the minds of so many of his fans and followers protected him over those 14 years.
O'CONNELL: He would even say, sometimes, you know, I survived cancer, why would I take drugs? And people believed it. It gave him a special status in the eyes of the public.
COOPER: What happens to him now? He's still facing at least one lawsuit, correct?
ALBERGOTTI: And it's a big -- Floyd Lannis filed a lawsuit as a whistle blower, essentially blowing the whistle on the U.S. Postal Service violation of contract. Lance Armstong's team violated the contract by doping and the U.S. Department of Justice has joined that lawsuit to the tune of potentially $120 million.
O'CONNELL: The lawsuit really points to business themes I think we bring up in the book for instance, Armstrong argues that the U.S. Postal Service should have known it got this marketing benefit by sponsoring the team because he won so many times. The postal service had the benefit of the media exposure of his victories and he's arguing in the lawsuit that the postal service should have known he was doping.
COOPER: It's obviously incredibly important to him to be able to compete in triathlons and that's one of the things he cannot do now, correct?
COOPER: Was he doping in triathlons after his cycling career?
ALBERGOTTI: I think there have been allegations he was. He was still working with McKelly Ferrari. He said he wasn't doping, but helping with the training regimen.
COOPER: But that Dr. Ferrari when Lance started working with him, when he starts working with him, there were allegations about him even then. So the fact he chose to work with that doctor was highly suspicious.
ALBERGOTTI: Highly suspicious and came out in the news and lance's story was the same at the time. I'm not working with him for doping purposes. I'm working with him just to train.
O'CONNELL: And that was also a brazen move that was very kind of characteristic of Lance Armstrong. He was working with a doping doc doctor or alleged doping doctor but thought he could control the criticism and deflect it criticism and for awhile it worked.
COOPER: Is there a lesson to be learned?
O'CONNELL: We think one of the morals to the story is that, you know, yes, cycling was a mess and Armstrong was the master of it and others were doping and cheating, as well, but when you win at a rigged game, you're going to pay the steepest price in the end and so that's essentially what we're seeing now.
COOPER: How much money in endorsements was he making? Do you know and how much did he lose?
ALBERGOTTI: Estimated 20 million, 25 million a year at times.
O'CONNELL: He lost about 75 million in endorsements in October when all of his sponsors fled.
ALBERGOTTI: It's $75 million.
O'CONNELL: That's what he -- that's his estimate.
COOPER: There was also always this belief that which I think what I read in the book he promoted that his heart was bigger or his ability to process oxygen -- I mean, there were all these stories about how he was this incredible freak of nature and that's why he could do these things.
ALBERGOTTI: He's certainly a great athlete. There is no question about that. But when you look at those measurements, the VO2 max measured in the low 80s, that's normal for high-level athletes in the Tour de France. He wasn't some physical freak that could just win without drugs like everyone else. He was good, but it was more of his mental toughness and demeanor. Now we know the doping program.
COOPER: It's a fascinating read and even if you're not interested in cycling or think you're not interested, it's a really compelling. So congratulations.
ALBERGOTTI: Thank you.
COOPER: The book again is called "Wheel Men." This Sunday night, CNN's going to broadcast the "The World According to Lance Armstrong" at 10 p.m. Eastern.
Up next, a 16-year-old girl was killed after she was run over by a fire truck after the plane crashed in San Francisco. The decision if the firefighter at the wheel will be charged, new developments ahead.
COOPER: Pamela Brown joins us with the 360 bulletin -- Pamela.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. Good evening. The California firefighter that ran over and killed a 16-year-old plane crash survivor will not be charged in the case. The D.A. announced the decision today. The coroner ruled that the girl was still alive when she was flung from the Asiana Airliner after it landed short of the runway in San Francisco.
The New York Police Department denies it is actively searching for the mysterious street and graffiti artist known as Banksy. He's been revealing new works of art around New York. The works are announced on his web site.
Teenage education activist, Malala Yousafzai met the queen today at Buckingham Palace. The Pakistan 16-year-old has been living in Britain since she was shot by the Taliban. She has been on a whirlwind book tour for the release of her new memoir -- Anderson.
COOPER: Pamela, thanks very much. That's all the time we got for 360. Tonight, join us again an hour from now for "AC 360 LATER." "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" is next.