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Boston Marathon Survivor's Journey; Interview With Father of Edward Snowden

Aired October 18, 2013 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight a 360 exclusive.

The father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden speaks out only on CNN. He's just back from Russia after finally seeing his son face to face. Does he still think Russia is the best place for his son? Does he think he will ever see him again? We will talk to him about all of that.

Plus, how could this possibly happen? Two convicted murderers services life sentences with no parole both walked out of prison easy as pie. They used phony documents -- the reward for their capture just got higher. We will have the latest on the manhunt, as well as the outrage.

We begin though with something that most likely passed you by this week. While most of the country was focused on the government shutdown, Boston marked the six-month anniversary of the bombing that shattered so many lives.

Three people died of course, and more than 260 others were injured. The city came to a standstill, but not for long. Boston is strong. It's moving on, though it hasn't forgotten and, of course, never will. Today, a temporary memorial to officer Sean Collier was unveiled on the MIT campus. Authorities say he was killed by the suspects, Tsarnaev and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev as they fled

Half-a-year later, the survivors are trying to put their lives back together, refusing to be defined by that day. They are truly all Boston strong.

One of them is Adrianne Haslet-Davis, a professional dance instructor who we met in the days after the bombing and who agreed to let us film her recovery. She lost her lower left leg in the bombing and she has vowed she will dance again. Her husband, Adam, was also injured.

Tonight, we want to show you just how far Adrianne has come. She told us she didn't want to sugarcoat her story. So, a warning. Some of the video she shot might be hard to watch. But Adrianne feels strongly that it's important for people to really understand what survivors of the bombing are going through.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want me to tell you each time I'm going to pull? Do you want me not to tell you?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We will take a break on that one.

HASLET-DAVIS: How am I doing, Adam?


HASLET-DAVIS: Is it scary-looking?



HASLET-DAVIS: I'm realizing that this is going to be my leg now once the stitches come out. That means that it's all permanent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's OK. That's OK. You're alive.



HASLET-DAVIS: I am on my way to a prosthetician appointment. Still working on that word. And they are going to fit me for my legs. Yay! So exciting!

You and those two legs walking all fast? I'm so going to race you later.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, so grab your leg.

HASLET-DAVIS: Oh, my gosh. She said leg. I'm so excited.

Oh, my gosh. Hi.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at the other side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is like seeing my child walk for the first time again. It's pretty emotional and it's pretty exciting. But she's a star. She's amazing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So stand up for me.

Does it hurt? DAVIS: No. She's standing on her own.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what do you feel? And what I need you to differentiate -- OK? You're doing good, at your own speed.



HASLET-DAVIS: It feels really good just to stand up right now. I haven't stood up in a really long time. I almost forgot what it felt like. It reminds me of dancing. And I just so desperately want that again. And I am so close. It feels really good.



DAVIS: It's pretty sexy.

HASLET-DAVIS: Is it sexy?



HASLET-DAVIS: Navigating the streets of Boston for the first time, it was really tough. I thought everybody had a bomb. I hate even saying things like that out loud, because it sounds crazy. But I would just -- I had horrible anxiety.

Obviously, I know now that the majority of the population isn't like the two bombers. But it's hard. I mean, I don't know if -- I don't know when or if that will go away.

They lit fireworks over the harbor. And all of a sudden, we heard explosions. I thought we were going to die. I started screaming and crying and called 911.


DAVIS: Can you please have somebody stop setting off fireworks? Please.

HASLET-DAVIS: We keep yelling stop with the fireworks.

DAVIS: The fireworks in the harbor, stop them.

OK. Was your foot blown off like my wife's was in the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bombing?

HASLET-DAVIS: I have gone through many, many stages, not only of PTSD, but also of mourning the loss of my leg. I remember waking up many mornings and just bawling and just crying and just being so sad. I have never felt that feeling of sadness. And I'm on the other side of sadness. I'm coming close to acceptance. But I'm not there yet. Today, Adam and I are going to talk to the prosecuting team about the case, and we are going through every gruesome detail leading up to the moment of the bombing, everything from what it felt like to the injuries. They want to know how it's impacted us. How has it not, really? They want to know if we would like them to seek the death penalty, which has been weighing heavy on our hearts.

I always questioned whether I would be able to be in the same courtroom as him. But if they need me there, I will be there. And justice needs to be done. I don't think about him often, but today's the day that I have to.

I think I'm further than I thought I would be in six months. I remember just getting my prosthetic and thinking that it would take forever, and then also in the same time thinking, I have got to do this. I had made a very strong point to not dwell on the people that did this.

I insist on being called a survivor and not a victim. A victim gives him ownership on me. I am not having that. That means that I somehow belong to somebody, or I'm suffering because of him. I'm not suffering. I'm thriving.


COOPER: She and her husband have come a very long way in six months.

As you just heard, Adrianne and Adam are helping investigators build their case. Tonight, there's a lot to bring you up on that case.

CNN's Susan Candiotti joins me now.

So, what is the latest on the case against the bomber?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I hope you don't mind. But I had a chance to meet Adrianne the first time she got out of rehab and saw the memorial for the first time. And that was such a powerful story. What a remarkable young woman she is.

COOPER: Yes. She's amazing.

CANDIOTTI: She sure is.

Here's where the case stands. Tsarnaev, who is accused of, of course, doing this to her, passed one birthday in jail. He's now 20 years old. He faces that 30-count indictment.

And right now we're slogging along in the investigation. The federal government, the prosecutors are still waiting to decide by the end of this month whether they will indeed seek the death penalty. Ultimately, it's up to Attorney General Holder to decide that. However, the defense gets to weigh in. They wanted more time. And just today, a federal judge said, I'm not going to get involved in that dispute. COOPER: And what about Katherine Russell, the widow of the other brother?

CANDIOTTI: Well, she is living quietly with her parents in Rhode Island. She has a lawyer. And as far as we know, she continues to cooperate with investigators.

We know that her in-laws have testified before a grand jury, spent about four hours there just last month. So we're waiting to see what else might develop with her.

COOPER: And at this point, no charges against her?


COOPER: All right. Susan Candiotti, thanks very much.

Again, a long journey for so many people. We are obviously going to continue to follow Adrianne's journey of recovery in the months ahead, culminating in an hour-long special report on the one-year anniversary of the bombings. We look forward certainly to sharing her and her family's progress with you.

Let us know what you think. You can follow me on Twitter at @AndersonCooper. Tweet using #AC360.

Coming up, a 360 exclusive: I'm going to speak with NSA leaker Edward Snowden's father just after Snowden told "The New York Times" there is no chance the documents he got ahold of ended up in Russian or Chinese hands. Lon Snowden, his dad, just got back from seeing his son in Russia for the first time, first time they met face to face and talked since all this began. We will talk to Lon ahead.

Also tonight, the latest in the manhunt for these two convicted murderers who simply walked out of a Florida prison because of forged release documents.

There's also breaking news tonight about the death of 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson found dead in a Georgia high school gym. We got new information about surveillance footage from the school -- the latest on that.


COOPER: Breaking news tonight in the Kendrick Johnson case.

Johnson is the teenager whose death was initially called an accident, the body found rolled up in a wrestling mat in a Georgia high school. Now, his parents have never bought that story and had another autopsy done that found he died of blunt-force trauma.

Victor Blackwell has been following the case closely, has breaking news tonight about some surveillance footage from the high school. He joins me now.

So, what did you find out about the footage? VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, CNN has confirmed that Kendrick Johnson was not alone inside the gym the day that investigators say he died.

And that's coming to us from an attorney for the school district. The Johnsons do not believe, as you said, the story officially of how their son died. So they want to see the surveillance video. And have been asked -- we have also asked for that surveillance video.

We have been told by the school district that they do not have to release it because it contains educational records of students. So we asked the obvious, but very specific follow-up question. And here it is. I'm going to read it in the letter that I wrote to the superintendent.

"Are minors for whom Lowndes County Schools has not received consent to release education records depicted in the surveillance images recorded inside the old gym" -- and that's where this is -- "at Lowndes High School on January 10, 2013, between 1:09 p.m. and 1:20 p.m.?"

We chose 1:09 because that's the time this picture was taken. In the response from the attorney for the school district, he writes: "I answer your pointed question with yes," so confirmation that Kendrick was not alone in the gym.

COOPER: The school is saying the students were in the gym, but authorities, they have not been clear on this. Right?

BLACKWELL: They have not been.

Lieutenant Stryde Jones has really been the face of this investigation for the Lowndes County Sheriff's Office, at least for the media. And we have the official record from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, from the medical examiner's office. And they recount a conversation with Stryde Jones on January 16.

And here it is. "The decedent was seen on the school video going into the gym around 1300 hours alone. The video did not show any other children or staff in the gym with the decedent at the time."

So here, he's telling the state that Kendrick was alone and there was no one else seen in the gym with him at that time. Here's what Stryde Jones told "The Valdosta Daily Times": "He comes down the hallway and essentially he enters the gym. He's following another kid. The first kid comes in, goes to the left. Kendrick goes in and off to the right towards the corner where the mats are" -- a clear discrepancy between those two statements.

But if you look at the pictures, Anderson, of Kendrick that have been supplied, Kendrick is not running off to the left. He's not running off to the right, I should say. He's running off to the left in those corners. So we're still waiting for some clarity from the Lowndes County Sheriff's Office about that.

But, tonight, in answer for the Johnsons, their son was not alone in that gym.

COOPER: Victor, thank you very much.

Tonight, authorities in Florida are searching for two convicted murderers mistakenly set free. They're offering a reward at $10,000 apiece for information leading to their arrest. Charles Walker and Joseph Jenkins were confined to the same prison, both serving life sentences without the possibility of parole.

The phony documents containing forged signatures, including a judge's signature, ordered their release a couple weeks ago. So, effective immediately, state prison officials will no longer set free any inmate whose sentence has been reduced unless a judge independently verifies the release order.

And get this. After they got out, both men went to the Orange County Jail to register as felons. Officials are now reviewing prison records to see if any other inmates got out from false documents.

John Zarrella joins us from Orlando.

So everybody's looking for these two guys. What's the latest?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Well, the latest, Anderson, is really that that was the height of arrogance that these two within days of their release both showed up here and filled out that paperwork registering with the state that they were here, obviously so that they would deflect any potential attention towards them.

Now, the sheriff here in Orange County a couple of hours ago held a press conference and said he does believe that both men are still in the area. They have also put up billboards now with that $10,000 reward on those billboards. And the sheriff says it was their intelligence that they have that leads them to believe that the two men are still here -- Anderson.

COOPER: It's so obvious, you would think that a judge should independently verify a faxed document or a letter that was sent to a prison. What are authorities saying about all this? Because it's still stunning to me they were able to just walk out.

ZARRELLA: Well, you know what, Anderson? It's what authorities aren't saying.

Other than the sheriff, nobody is really talking. The state attorney's office has refused our requests for an interview. The Department of Corrections has refused our requests for interviews. We did talk to the clerk of the court. And the clerk here who told us, listen, we just file the paperwork.

The clerk's concern to us was, we don't know how the paperwork got in the system. It could have been put in a drop box. It could have been brought from the judge's office or from the state attorney's office. But they, they said, don't know how it got in the system.

COOPER: Could there be other people, other prisoners who have had formed documents and gotten out?

ZARRELLA: Yes, big question. In fact, the day before the second of the two guys was released, the state filed charges in an almost identical case against an inmate in another prison who tried to pull exact same scam, filing paperwork that basically said that there would be a motion to correct an illegal sentence.

So that paperwork was filed, but it was caught. So they're certainly concerned that there are others trying to pull the same scam.

COOPER: Incredible. John Zarrella, appreciate it. Thanks.

For on the story, you can go to

Up next: my exclusive interview with the father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden. He just returned from a visit with his son in Russia. It's the first time they have talked face to face. He's going to tell me about how he believes his son is doing.

Also at today's testimony in Utah the trial of Dr. Martin MacNeill, who's accused of murdering his wife.


COOPER: Tonight, a 360 exclusive.

In a moment, I will speak with the father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden, who has just returned from Russia, where his son has been granted asylum. His father is speaking out just as the "New York Times" published its extensive interview with the former National Security Agency contractor.

In an interview, Snowden says that he did not take any secret documents with him when he fled to Russia in June. Instead, he says he gave all the classified documents he got his hands on to journalists and didn't keep any copies. Snowden says -- quote -- "There's a zero percent chance the Russians or Chinese have received any documents."

He didn't give any details about what his life is like in Moscow, other than he's not under government control and is free to move around, he says. Edward Snowden's father has just come back from Russia, where he spent time with his son for the first time since this all happened. I spoke earlier this evening with Lon Snowden, in a 360 exclusive.


COOPER: You were able to finally see your son. What was that like?

LON SNOWDEN, FATHER OF EDWARD SNOWDEN: It was an emotional moment.

It was something I had wanted desperately to do since June 9, when the story first broke, and to see him walk into the room -- I was already present where we were going to meet initially -- it was really uplifting.

COOPER: Was this the first time you have actually been able to talk to him directly?

SNOWDEN: Yes. Yes.

COOPER: I'm not going to obviously ask you details about where he's staying or even if you knew that, because I don't want to -- obviously, you don't want to do anything that's going to endanger his safety or locate him.

But what can you say about his life there?

SNOWDEN: I think it's very good.

I was persistent in saying, Ed, I don't want you to tell me what you think I want to hear. Are you OK?

I have wondered where he lays his head at night. Every night when I go to bed, is he laying his head on a dirt floor? Well, he's living very comfortably and he has quite a support system. And unlike many people suggested, that he's under the control of the Russian government or the FSB, that is absolutely not the case.

COOPER: He made clear in the recent interview in "The New York Times" that he says he absolutely did not give any information to the Russians, that he didn't actually even have any of the classified documents on him when he left Hong Kong, and he did that consciously, that he'd given them away, and he's quite confident the Chinese were not able to get ahold of them because he himself was involved in looking into the Chinese intelligence capabilities.

Did he talk to you about that?

SNOWDEN: Yes, he did. I asked about that.

And I can tell you that, on day one, when my son -- when the news broke on June 9, June 10, the FBI was in my home. And I specifically told them that there was no question in my mind -- of course, this is a father talking, but I know my son. I said, my son would die before he would sell secrets to a foreign government that would harm his country.

I know that for a fact. You know, his intention, if it was to profit, he would be in a much different circumstance now. If his desire was to profit from this, he would have already signed a book deal. He's not interested in doing that at this point in time.


COOPER: He could have gone on television programs, probably been paid by some television programs around the world, and done stuff. And he hasn't done any of that.

SNOWDEN: Absolutely. Absolutely.

He told me through other communications long ago, and again, is: "Dad, I did not do this to be safe. You need to let everyone know, don't worry about me. I'm committed to this. I didn't do this to be safe. I did it because it's the right thing to do. I could not live with what I have been exposed to," live the rest of his life, with that, knowing that he did not share that.

COOPER: Does he have any regrets at this point?

SNOWDEN: He said he has absolutely no regrets. None.

COOPER: It sounds like your son -- or that the information your son has given to Glenn Greenwald and others, that there is still a more -- a lot more to come. Glenn Greenwald said it on this program just -- I think it was last night, saying, there's a lot more information he is still going through, a lot more information that will surprise a lot of people.

SNOWDEN: Right. Glenn has that.

My understanding, "The New York Times" has information, ProPublica, "The Guardian." So, yes, my understanding is there is much, much more to come.

COOPER: There are a lot of people out there who still believe your son committed treason, your son has done something which has done real damage to the real interests of the United States of America. After seeing him, what do you say to those people?

SNOWDEN: What I would say to them is, you have a right to your opinion, but I would ask that you make sure that it's an informed opinion.

And the problem is at this point is, they don't have all the facts, nor do I. But I know that I have spent hours upon hours every day researching articles, vetting the truth, researching companies. There's far more to this, far more to this that's going to be touched.

COOPER: Are you proud of your son?

SNOWDEN: I am absolutely proud of my son, proud of him. It could bring me to tears, I'm so proud of my son, because I know what he sacrificed. I know who he is. I held him as a child. He's the same person.

And he's a man of character. And no matter what happens, I know he loves his country. I know he's a humanist. I know that he is not so ethnocentric or blinded by nationalism that he looks at people in other countries as something less, that he looks at us as we are exceptional to the degree that others are lesser than us.

COOPER: What did you say to him when you left him? How do you say goodbye in a situation like that?

SNOWDEN: It occur pretty quickly. It was just -- again, it was the same way we left one another back in April, when we were in the shadow of the NSA, the last time I had seen him in the States, is, we hugged. It was, "I love you, dad, "I love you, son."

But I know I will see him again.

COOPER: Lon Snowden, thank you so much for talking to me. Appreciate it.

SNOWDEN: OK. Thank you very much, Anderson.


COOPER: Coming up tonight the latest in the trial of a Utah doctor accused of killing his wife to be with his mistress. What neighbors say they saw on the day Michele MacNeill died. Next.

Also later tonight, new insight into the rise and especially the fall of Lance Armstrong. How he was able to hide his doping for so long and pull off what the authors of a new book called "The Greatest Sports Conspiracy Ever." I'm going to speak with the authors of a fascinating new book called "Wheel Men" when we continue.


COOPER: In "Crime & Punishment" tonight, medicine, the mistress and possible murder.

It is day two of the trial in Utah where Dr. Martin MacNeill is charged with murder and obstruction of justice in the 2007 death of his wife, Michele. At the time he is her death was attributed to natural causes due to cardiovascular disease. Some of her eight children didn't buy it. A few years later a new analysis reopened the case and the whole thing started to unravel. At the center of the case, prosecutors say Dr. Martin MacNeill was living a double life and his motive for the alleged murder was a desire to be with his mistress, a woman named Gypsy.

Today the MacNeills' former neighbors were on the stand, describing what they saw the day Michele was found dead. Jean Casarez has more.


JEAN CASAREZ, CNN LAW CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Neighbor Kristi Daniels recounted the tragic moments after Michele MacNeill was found unresponsive in her bathtub. She had been called to the MacNeill home by their youngest daughter, Ada.

KRISTI DANIELS, NEIGHBOR OF MACNEILLS: I saw that Michele was in the tub and Martin was over the tub. Her head was right here, and her feet were -- or her legs were over here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there water in it?


DANIELS: OK. Did you see any blood?


COOPER: No blood. But the prosecutor says definitely murder. Prosecutor Sam Pead says Michele was dead because her husband of nearly 30 years, Dr. Martin MacNeill, killed her and used his medical knowledge to pull it off.

The motive? MacNeill was carrying on an affair with Gypsy Willis, who moved into the MacNeill home as a nanny shortly after Michele's death.

MacNeill, he says, was so determined to move forward with the murder plot that he forced his wife to have a facelift so he could kill her with a mix of drugs and blame it on the surgery. Michele went ahead with the surgery on April 3. Eight days later, her husband was calling 911.

MARTIN MACNEILL, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: My wife's fallen in the bathtub.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who's in the bathtub? Who's in the bathtub?

MACNEILL: My wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is she conscious?

MACNEILL: She's not. I'm a physician.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, I can't understand you. Can you calm down just a little bit?

MACNEILL: I need help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Your wife is unconscious?

MACNEILL: She is unconscious. She's underwater. In the bathtub.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you get her out of the water?

MACNEILL: I can't. I let the water out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's under the water?

MACNEILL: She's out of the water now. I want you to get me an ambulance.

CASAREZ: Prosecutors brought in a bathtub similar to the one in the MacNeill home so witnesses could demonstrate how Michele was found. Kristi's husband, Doug, said MacNeill instructed them when they were trying to revive her. DOUG DANIELS, NEIGHBOR: And then he'd throw his hands in the air. I think twice he would say, "Why? Why would you do this? All because of a stupid surgery?" And then he would say, "OK, continue." So I continued doing chest compressions.

CASAREZ: Medical examiners found several powerful drugs in her system, including Valium, Percocet and Ambien. Dr. Scott Thompson, who performed Michele's facelift, told the court that MacNeill had great influence on Michele's prescriptions and that the combination of drugs given to her could be dangerous if taken together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it your intention that Michele take all these drugs together?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you have prescribed this combination to her if Martin was not a physician?


CASAREZ: for months leading up to his wife's death, MacNeill was telling neighbors and members of his church that he had cancer and didn't have long to live. But prosecutors say it was all a ruse, one he continued at his then dead wife's funeral.

SAM PEAD, UTAH COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Prior to the funeral, the defendant was seen unloading boxes of Michele's memorabilia and walking around without any difficulty. However, when following the casket, the defendant exhibited a profound limp and walked with a cane.

CASAREZ: And what did he tell his neighbor just days after her death?.

K. DANIELS: He told me that she'd died of some kind of heart problem like the basketball player that just died over on the court. I asked him, "Well, Martin, how are you doing? I heard that you only have like six months to live."

And he said something to the effect of, "Don't write me off yet. I'm still here now."

CASAREZ: In fact, MacNeill was already introducing his mistress around town, saying she was the new nanny.

D. DANIELS: At first it was very vague. And then we learned that she was the nanny. Then eventually as everybody could tell that the relationship was more than that, as to whether or not they were getting married.


COOPER: Jean Casarez joins me now live from Utah. He sounded so frantic on the 911 call. How did the neighbors describe his mood when they arrived? CASAREZ: You know, they really said that he was frantic. They said that he was instructive as all the neighbors started to try to help with that CPR. They said, though, as he had his head buried on top of Michele's mouth, allegedly giving her CPR, he would then stop and just raise his hands and say, "Why did you have that surgery? What about those medications?"

One witness, the officer, one of the first responders, said that he was absolutely erratic and that he was concerned for his own safety, thinking he had to defend himself at some point because Dr. MacNeill was so frantic.

Now, the other side to that is, this is a man that is losing his wife. And although he had that other life, he's still losing the mother of his eight children.

COOPER: Were the witness accounts consistent with how they found Michele in the bathtub?

CASAREZ: They were; they really were. All of the neighbors said that when they got there, that Michele's face was next to the faucet in the bathtub, and her feet were laid out to the end of the bathtub. But here's what could be significant.

The prosecution has Dr. Joshua Perpera, medical examiner, who will testify that he believes the immediate cause of death was drowning. Well, one neighbor said her clothes were dry and her hair was dry except for the tips of her hair that was wet. Another neighbor said her clothes maybe could have been damp. The officer says her clothes were drenched. So you've got eyewitnesses that are really all over the map here.

COOPER: That's confusing. Jean Casarez, appreciate it. Thanks.

Joining me now are criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos and prosecutor Paul Henderson.

So Paul, none of the medical examiners who inspected the wife's body concluded that she was a victim of homicide. How badly does that weaken the prosecution's case?

PAUL HENDERSON, PROSECUTOR: Well, it's a report, obviously, that the prosecution will have to deal with. But obviously, what they'll be doing is, you know, putting those witnesses on that made that report and presenting to them new evidence or evidence in a different way that may not have been considered when that report was drafted.

So, for instance, I'm presuming that what they're likely to do is talk about with the medical examiner and ask him, "Look, we know that these drugs influenced her death. Would it have made a difference to you at the time if you were aware that someone else was directly responsible for identifying which drugs that she was going to be taking and those were drugs that that doctor would not normally have ordered for her?"

These are all things that the new -- that the medical examiner will be commenting on...

COOPER: Right.

HENDERSON: ... that will be different from the evidence that he evaluated when he first made that report. Because that was six years ago. And now they're looking at this with fresh eyes and with a new perspective.

COOPER: And Danny, the defense is saying, "Look, you may think this guy's a jerk, but it doesn't make him a killer. I mean, is it difficult for juries to make that distinction? "

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I'll go a step further. We've seen case like this.

This doctor is guilty of some galactic level creepiness. He's guilty of being happy that his wife is dead so he can engage in shenanigans with a mistress. We've seen cases like this before.

The question is can the prosecution get by the biggest problem they have is that not one, not two but three of the prosecution's medical examiner experts concluded that cardiac arrhythmia may have caused the death. And you have to wonder if that's going to get them to that reasonable doubt that the defense needs.

The only thing is that recently in other cases, we've seen similar evidence be enough for conviction. So it is a question of whether the science will be enough for this jury.

COOPER: And Paul, the prosecution says that their plan on calling several inmates who are going to testify that MacNeill told them he was responsible for his wife's death and that the cops wouldn't be able to pin it on him. I mean, does testimony from inmates hold a lot of weight?

ANDERSON: Well, it matters. It depends. Each case is unique. But as a juror when you hear information like that, you have to weigh and consider it.

I think what they're really going to be pushing this jury is to try and present evidence to them to show them just how much influence he had on her exact death. It wasn't just that she had a heart attack. It was she had a heart attack because of these drugs.

And when they make the connections and connect the dots to show how he was involved and not just what drugs she took but how she actually took the drugs, I think they are going to weigh and consider that. And it's going to hurt him.

And the statements like that that come in against him, they're certainly not going to help him in his defense. There's got to be something they've got to consider, and it makes a difference to the case.

COOPER: And Danny, what about the presence of this mistress, Gypsy? CEVALLOS: Well, we've seen many defendants. Unfortunately, in America it's a fact of life that people engage in nonsense with mistresses or whoever. And we've seen a lot of defendants. That's the prosecution's chief motive here.

And the problem is, the prosecution has to hope that that motive is so powerful and this behavior is so odd and unexplainable that it will get them over the fact that they simply do not have science in their favor.

You look for the defense to absolutely hammer home the fact that each of these medical examiners never conclusively really said that cardiac arrhythmia could be ruled out as a cause of death. And at most, at most the first medical examiner said natural causes.

COOPER: Right. Danny Cevallos good to have you on. Paul Anderson, as well. Thanks.

ANDERSON: Pleasure.

COOPER: Up next, an amazing book documents the extent of Lance Armstrong's doping scandal. It's an amazing book; I'm reading it. And it's not only about Lance Armstrong. It's about all the other people who helped the disgraced cyclist cover it up for so many years. We'll talk to the authors ahead.


COOPER: Lance Armstrong's dramatic fall will go down in history as one of the great tragedies in the world of sports. A seven-time winner of the grueling Tour de France, an Olympian who battled to beat cancer, a man admired around the world for his incredible athletic abilities. And it all came crashing down earlier this year when he finally -- finally admitted to the rumors, or at least some of them, that he'd been doping all along.

Many of us have asked was it worth it all that lying? Armstrong's amazing career, what we were all led to believe was an amazing career, certainly in ruins. His reputation pretty much worthless, stripped of his titles and medals.

A new book called "Wheel Men: Lance Armstrong, the Tour de France and the Greatest Sports Conspiracy Ever," explains how he got away with doping for so long and who helped him. It's written by Vanessa O'Connell and Reed Albergotti, reporters for the "Wall Street Journal."

I think a lot of people, the last time they really paid attention to Lance Armstrong was when Oprah was interviewing him. I want to play just a little bit of some of what he said.


OPRAH WINFREY, MEDIA MOGUL: Yes or no. Did you ever take banned substances to enhance your cycling performance?


WINFREY: Yes or no. In all seven of your Tour de France victories, did you ever take banned substances or blood dope?



COOPER: So he said a lot. But there was a lot he didn't say. What were some of the major things that he didn't go into?

REED ALBERGOTTI, CO-AUTHOR: Well, I mean, I think he didn't talk about the people who around him who helped him for 14 years cover up this massive doping conspiracy.

COOPER: He didn't talk about how it all transpired.

ALBERGOTTI: Right. The people who helped him, the enablers, the people who -- the governing bodies of cycling. Like the UCI that took donations from him. That is -- to us that's really the interesting thing about this story is it's not just the doping, it's all the stuff around the doping. enablers, the people who -- the governing bodies of cycling. Like the UCI. That took donations from him. That is -- to us that's really the interesting thing about this story is, it's not just the doping, it's all the stuff around the doping.

COOPER: And you really get into this in the book. The sheer number of people who had an interest in protecting Lance Armstrong and protecting sort of Lance incorporated as you refer to it.

VANESSA O'CONNELL, CO-AUTHOR: Yes. We've always viewed this as sort of a business story. It's more than just doping and cycling or doping and sport. We view this as a story about a business enterprise essentially. And cheating was at the heart of

COOPER: It did the fact that he also had this charity, did he use that to kind of blunt criticism of him or suspicion of him?

O'CONNOR: Absolutely. I mean, the Lance Armstrong foundation, which is now known as the Livestrong foundation after the scandal, really was his shield. I mean, he was fighting cancer. He wasn't just an athlete, he was above all that. And that really in the minds of so many of his fans and followers, protected him over those 14 years.

He would even say sometimes, you know, I survived cancer, why would I take drugs. And people believed it. It gave him special status in the eyes of the public.

COOPER: What happens to him now? I mean, he's still facing at least one lawsuit, correct?

ALBERGOTTI: Yes. And it's a big lawsuit. Floyd Landis filed a lawsuit under the federal false claims act as a whistle blower, essentially blowing the whistle on the U.S. Postal Service's violation of the contract. Lance Armstrong team violated the contract by doping. And the U.S. Department of Justice has joined that lawsuit to the tune of potentially $120 million.

O'CONNOR: That lawsuit really points to some of the business themes they I think we bring up in the book. For instance, Armstrong argues that the U.S. Postal Service should have known it got this marketing benefit by sponsoring the team because he won so many times the postal service had the benefit of all the media exposure of his victories. And he's basically argue the in lawsuit that the postal service should have known he was doping.

COOPER: It's obviously incredibly important to him to be able to compete in triathlons. That's one of the things he cannot do now, correct?


COOPER: Was he doping during triathlons after his cycling career? Is that known?

ALBERGOTTI: I think there have been allegations that he was and he was still working with McKelly Ferrari. But his side of the story, Lance's side of the story is that he wasn't doping. He was just sort of helping him with the training regimen.

COOPER: But that Dr. Ferrari, when Lance started to work with him, I mean, I was reading in your book, when he started working with him, there were allegations about him even then. So the fact that he chose to work with that doctor was highly suspicious.

ALBERGOTTI: Highly suspicious. And it came out in the news. And Lance's story was the same at the time: "I'm not working with him for doping purposes, I'm working with him just to train."

O'CONNOR: And that was also a brazen move that was very kind of characteristic of Lance Armstrong. He was working with a doping doctor, an alleged doping doctor, but he really felt he could control the situation, control the story, deflect the criticism. And for a while it worked.

COOPER: Is there a lesson to be learned from this?

O'CONNOR: Yes. I think -- we think one of the morals of the story is that yes, cycling was a mess. And Armstrong was a master of it. And others were doping and cheating, as well.

But you know, when you win at a rigged game, you're going to pay the steepest price in the end. And so that's essentially what we're seeing now.

COOPER: How much money in endorsements was he making, do you know? And so how much did he lose?

ALBERGOTTI: Estimated at 20, 25 million a year at times.

O'CONNOR: He lost about 75 million in endorsements in late October when all of his sponsors fled shortly after...

COOPER: Seventy-five million dollars?

O'CONNOR: That's what he -- exactly, his estimate.

COOPER: There was also always this belief that -- which I think from what I read in the book, that he certainly promoted, that his heart was bigger or his ability to process oxygen. I mean there were all these stories about how he was just this incredibly freak of nature and that's why he could do all these things.

ALBERGOTTI: He's certainly a great athlete. There's no question about that. But when you look at those measurements, like his VO 2 max that was measured in the low 80s, that's actually normal for those high-level athletes in the Tour de France. So it's not -- he wasn't some physical freak that could just win without drugs like everyone else. He was good, but it was more of his mental toughness and his demeanor. Now we know, you know, the doping program.

COOPER: It's a fascinating read. And even if you're not interested in cycling or think you're not interested, I mean, it's a really compelling story. So congratulations. Thank you so much.

ALBERGOTTI: Thank you.

O'CONNOR: Thanks.

COOPER: The book again is called "Wheel Men." This Sunday night CNN is going to broadcast "The World According to Lance Armstrong" at 10 p.m. Eastern.

Up next, a 16-year-old girl was killed when she was run over a fire truck after a plane crash in San Francisco. Today a decision on whether the firefighter at the wheel is going to be charged. New developments ahead.


COOPER: Pamela Beth Brown joins us with a "360 Bulletin" -- Pamela.


The California firefighter who accidentally ran over and killed a 16-year-old plane crash survivor will not be charged in the case. The D.A. announced a decision today. A coroner ruled that the girl was still alive when she was flung from the Asiana airliner after it landed short of the runway in San Francisco.

And the New York Police Department denies that it is actively searching for the mysterious street and graffiti artist known as Banksy. Every day this month, he's been unveiling new works of art around New York. The works are then announced on his web site.

And teenage education activist Malala Yousafzai met the queen today at Buckingham Palace. The Pakistani 16-year-old has been living in Britain since she was shot by the Taliban. She's been on a whirlwind book tour for the release of her new memoir -- Anderson.

COOPER: Pamela, thanks very much.

OK. That's it for us. Thanks for watching.