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CONNECT THE WORLD
Meet Libya's Most Powerful Man; Wildfires Rage Across Southeastern Australia; Intelligence Officials Looking For Norwegian Somali In Connect with Westgate Mall Attack
Aired October 18, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Nairobi, Kenya's Westgate terror attack reveals possible links to Oslo as police investigate whether a Norwegian national was one of the gunmen. Tonight, we discuss the growing problem of western radicalization and how to combat it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALALA YOUSAFZAI, EDUCATION ACTIVIST: I had to miss my school, because I was meeting the queen.
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ANDERSON: Pakistani teen activist Malala takes her campaign for education all the way to Buckingham Palace.
And does this skull unlock the key to our ancestry? Stay with us to find out.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
Well, Norwegian intelligence agents are in Kenya as we speak investigating a possible suspect in the deadly attack in the Nairobi mall last month. Now the suspect's name hasn't bee revealed, but we do know he's a Norwegian national of Somali descent.
Sources believe the suspect is linked to a dangerous commander in the Somali terror group al Shabaab.
Well, let's turn now to Nima Elgabir for more. She is live for us in Nairobi in Kenya. And what do we know about this Norwegian citizen being investigated Nima.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we understand from Norwegian intelligence officials that they believe there is a strengthening suspicion that a Norwegian citizen was part of the Westgate attack. And they're also investigating links between him and a man known Ikrima, a top level al Shabaab -- excuse me, a top level al Shabaab commander who is the target of the failed attempt to grab him from Somalia by U.S. Navy SEALs a couple of weeks ago.
Now the time the U.S. Navy SEALs and the U.S. government, I should say, said they didn't really believe there was a link between Ikrima and the Westgate mall, and that definitely wasn't why they were going after him, we now understand that Ikrima and this Norwegian citizen are believed to have worked together in Somalia.
And in fact that Ikrima having grown up in Kenya speaking both Norwegian, Arabic, Somali, Swahili has been an integral piece not just in the identification of Westgate as a target, but also in the broader recruitment not just here in Kenya, Becky, but back in Europe as well.
ANDERSON: Yeah, stay with me for one moment. I want to get our viewers just a little bit more background on Ikrima. Mohamed Abdikadir Mohamed, better known as Ikrima, is regarded as one of the most dangerous commanders of the Somali terror group al Shabaab.
Now Kenyan authorities suspect that he was involved in the Westgate Mall attack last month. And U.S. officials say he was the target of a raid earlier this month as Nima suggested by U.S. Navy SEALs (inaudible) al Shabaab combat in Somalia.
Now his friends say he is a Somalian who grew up in Nairobi, Kenya and is thought to be in his late 20s. A Norwegian journalist tells CNN that he lived in Norway from 2004 to 2008, recruiting for al Shabaab in Europe.
His friends say Ikrima speaks six languages, including Arabic and French. And Kenyan intelligence sources say that he is the main point person between al Qaeda in Somalia and al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
Nima, I know that this coming out as part of what is an ongoing investigation into the Westgate mall attack, what else do we know at this point?
ELBAGIR: Well, we also understand that there is a growing body of evidence that points to Westgate being part -- the Westgate planning being part of a much broader regional network. In that CCTV footage that we've been showing our viewers, you can see the attackers clearly on the phone. And at the time we were told Kenyan authorities believed that they were receiving instructions from outside the mall.
Looking at those intercepts now, Kenyan counterterror officials are telling us that they believe those phone calls weren't just coming from outside the mall, they believe that some of them were coming from outside the country from Somalia, from Uganda, and today we have the U.S. embassy in Uganda raising its terror alert. They say that they believe there is evidence of a Westgate style attack being planned there.
So you get the sense really of how well planned -- not just how well executed, but how broad this network is and how deep the roots of it run in this region and beyond, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yeah. All right, Nima, thank you very much indeed for that. Nima Elgabir is in Nairobi for you.
Kenyan authorities and even al Shabaab sources say the Nairobi attackers were far from as far away as the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom. We don't have any more, though, on that at present.
Let's discuss this with Usama Hasan. He's a senior researcher at the Quilliam Foundation, a counter extremism think tank. In your youth, you considered yourself somewhat of a jihadist yourself, a reformed man some might say.
An attack, as Nima was eluding to, there was a -- the threat of an attack, we believe, in Uganda outside of Kenya of course. That wouldn't be the first time. Back during the World Cup, of course, there was an attack claimed by al Shabaab.
Let's talk about this sort of broader network of where you believe things stand at the moment.
We were told al Shabaab was on its knees only 18 months ago. It's not, is it?
USAMA HASAN, SENIOR RESEARCHER, THE QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: Well, al Shabaab seems to be trying to regroup and strike internationally, really, outside Somalia to help bolster its flagging fortune at home, if you like. It's lost a lot of territory over the last few years that it controlled after neighboring countries sent in their armies.
And the Westgate attack, and possibly wider connections seem to be part of the (inaudible) actually to say, look, we're still here. And also to impress other part of the al Qaeda franchise who may have regarded al Shabaab as untested and relatively young in this whole arena. And they're really trying to impress the al Qaeda people and saying, look, we can do as good as you guys. It's that kind of mentality.
ANDERSON: You and I have talked about radicalization of youngsters over the past couple of years. And you've been concerned about that. And you say that much of what needs to be done is it needs to start at home in the mosques, in the book shops and things. Although we've talked long and hard about sort of online facilities that now exist for sort of self- radicalization as it were.
Are you alarmed by what you are hearing about Westgate and the sort of post-Westgate world, as it were, these links to Norway, these threats to Uganda at this point?
HASAN: Well, the international jihadist network has been developing for the last couple of decades. And especially with Syria now, with the largest mobilization of foreign fighters since the Afghanistan war against the Soviets in the 80s. There are all kinds of connections being created here and there.
Now al Shabaab released a video two days ago, an hour long video, mainly aimed at Muslim in Britain encouraging Muslims...
ANDERSON: More their imams.
HASAN: Yeah, but also encouraging Muslims in Britain to join the fight, even calling them to travel to Somalia...
ANDERSON: And how effective would that have been? Just tell me, you talk to some of these youngsters.
HASAN: The underlying narrative of grievance and victimhood, which plays up on actually hasn't changed since the late-90s. The Shabaab video from two days ago reminded me of a jihadist video from 15, 18 years ago which said the state of the Muslim everybody suffering. The only way is military jihad to solve this.
So the basic narrative is the same, but much more sophisticated and high tech production now. And also focusing on particular events in the western world.
So they are able to recruit people from around the world. We have Americans who are unfortunately in al Shabaab. We have Britain. We have Europeans. We have Africans. We have Asians.
ANDERSON: Usama, when you see a video like that which was released by al Qaeda eluding to the al Shabaab network just in the past couple of days, which spoke to moderate imams here saying you will be a target unless you join the fray, as it were. You say it's a recruitment video, or hope it will be. In the UK, so far as you are concerned, how many people might that reach who could be radicalized, who might travel, who might act upon a video like that and think to terrorize either here or elsewhere? How many people are we talking about?
HASAN: Well, it's a tiny, tiny fraction. We're probably talking a few dozen, maximum.
ANDERSON: In the UK?
HASAN: In the UK. In fact, that video itself names 10 or 11 Britons who have traveled to Somalia in the last five to 10 years, a couple of Americans it named also to encourage others to say, look, these guys have done it. You should join us as well.
And so it's a tiny faction...
ANDERSON: Is it effective, though?
HASAN: It's more effective than previous recruitment videos, yes. That video is worrying, because it's high tech and it uses a lot of emotional kind of narrative to say people are suffering. Come and join the fight.
It uses Burma, for example. The Muslims -- the Rohinga Muslims in Burma who are kind of facing ethnic cleansing and genocide. They're saying nobody is doing anything about it, let's pick up a gun.
However, the reality is people are doing something about it. There are lots of people who are not Muslim who are campaigning 24/7 about that.
But al Shabaab ignore that. And many people who don't know the reality of the world, the way the world works, the fact that there is democracy, there are civil rights organizations and the human rights people concerned about this, they ignore all that and say pick up a gun and come and join the fight.
ANDERSON: Let's get back to Westgate, finally. How good a recruitment tool, how effective a tool was the attack on Westgate for al Shabaab?
HASAN: Well, no it's quite the opposite, it appalled most civilized people in the world, of course, the nature of the attack on a shopping mall. It certainly appalled Somali in Kenya, of course, there's a large population there. And it was in a sense an own goal for them. And perhaps this recruitment video, we hope, will also become -- will backfire, because why the British society has taken notice for the first time, because it has targeted prominent British individuals, including the Archbishop of Canterbury who was also visited by the police to look after his security.
So they're taking a big gamble here. They're using high tech methods and means, but because their basic narrative is so old, we are confident, actually, that counternarrative if you like -- if Muslims continue to reclaim the narrative and crucial build democracy and human rights in Muslim majority countries around the world, that is a long-term solution to all of this mess.
At the moment, this is like a glorified Gangland situation. The terrorist groups work like huge gangs, or mafias, and they're very well connected, lots of money flowing around, drug money, et. cetera. Al Shabaab raises half a billion a year from that...
ANDERSON: Half a billion.
HASAN: Half a billion -- according to the UN report of two, three...
HANAS: From the khat trade, which is the drug chewed in Yemen and Somalia which is very popular. A UN report of two or three years ago said half a billion dollars was raised by al Shabaab through that, just as the Taliban and al Qaeda raise money through the heroin trade.
So there's all of this mess going on. And the ultimate solution is stability and peace, democracy, human rights, stable and viable states and not failed states.
ANDERSON: With that, we're going to leave it there. It is always an absolute pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much indeed.
Still to come tonight, the chilling reality of servitude. We continue our fight against modern-day slavery with a focus on how to tackle to problem.
Why this skull found in the Republic of Georgia could hold the key to understand where we came from and why it's becoming a headache for some scientists.
But first, unseasonably hot temperatures and strong winds adding misery -- adding to the misery in southeastern Australia where dozens of bush fires are burning uncontrollably. We're going to take a look at one town getting hit extremely hard. We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.
ANDERSON: This is CNN and Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. A quarter past 8:00 this evening.
Nearly 100 bush fires burning across New South Wales in Australia have turned deadly. One man apparently died of a suspected heart attack while trying to defend his home. The flames have already destroyed hundreds of homes and forced hundreds more to evacuate the area.
Now 7 Network Hugh Whitfield reports from what is one very hard hit community. Have a look at this.
HUGH WHITFIELD, 7 NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The pain of losing everything after the day from hell at Mount Victoria. In this one straight, seven houses are flattened, yards blackened, cars a wreck.
ROWLEY CLARKE, RESIDENT: Obviously took out half a dozen or so houses in this street. And was sort of hit and miss which ones went and which ones didn't. There are houses that you would expect to burn that didn't.
WHITFIELD: Michael Reeson returned today. Yesterday, he was here trying to get his daughter out before police ordered them to go.
MICHAEL REESON, FIRE VICTIM: Next minute the police come down and just say we've lost control and told us to get out. And basically we were throwing everything in our cars over the next five minutes. And that was it. And we heard last night that the place had been burned down.
WHITFIELD: Somehow, Margaret Gough's house is still standing even after embers melted her skylight and began burning her living room fire crews managed to save it.
MARGARET GOUGH, RESIDENT: My house, we've got the shell, haven't we? And inside will have to be gutted. And that -- we've got a good starting point.
WHITFIELD: Some of her rescued animals, like these opposums, survived the fire, some not.
Last night, crews battled to put out burning embers, a fight that's far from won. 85 fighters were on the ground today battling to bring it under control.
STEVE PARROTT, FIREFIGHTER: Very tough terrain. So the winds changing on us all the time. And it's giving us variable conditions, so we pump hard out and it flares up on us again.
WHITFIELD: Investigators believe the blaze started in yesterday's strong winds when a falling tree brought down power lines on Mount York. That power poll is less than a kilometer away on the next ridge over, but by the time the fire reached this street in less than two hours, it was a firestorm so hot that this car windscreen didn't shatter, it melted.
Leaves on the trees show the direction of the fire -- they're baked in place. Residents' resilience just as stubborn.
GOUGH: We live in the Australian bush, we've got to -- you know, it's a tough life.
ANDERSON: Well, the Taliban are claiming responsibility for a suicide car bombing in Kabul earlier today. The blast went off outside a residential compound where many foreign workers are based. Officials say two people were killed. They say the bomber targeted several vehicles that were leaving the compound.
The second day of protests in Paris. Students block several high schools in support of two deported teens, one Kosovar, the other Armenian.
Immigration is a delicate issue for France's socialist government, which is in a tough fight with anti-immigration nationalist front in next year's municipal elections.
France, meanwhile is sharing Saudi Arabia frustration over gridlock at the United Nations. Saudi is rejecting an offer to join the security council after winning a rotating seat. Now the Saudi foreign ministry says the council is guilty of, and I quote, double standards and doesn't preserve world peace, citing its failure to help resolve the Israeli- Palestinian conflict and the war in Syria.
Well, the International Criminal Court has partially excused Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta from his upcoming trial in The Hague. Citing his, quote, demanding functions of offices, it is requiring him to attend only major phases, including opening and closing statements. Kenyatta is charged with crimes against humanity stemming from deadly violence after disputed elections back in 2007.
Well, turning to Russia now where the Greenpeace office in Murmansk was broken in to. That is the same city where 30 activists from the environmental group have been held in jail for almost a month. The only thing reported missing was a cage the protesters were going to use in a demonstration in support of the jailed activists.
Meanwhile, one of those behind bars is Greenpeace ship captain Peter Willcox. His wife and daughter talked exclusively to CNN's Ivan Watson.
IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Gunshots in the Arctic: this was supposed to be a routine Greenpeace protest against a Russian energy giant drilling for oil in the Arctic Ocean. But the September 18 protest took a horrible turn, Russian authorities arrested 28 activists and two journalists aboard a ship owned by the environmentalist group Greenpeace. A court later charged them with piracy. Authorities claiming their actions endangered the oil rig's crew.
Among the detainees, an American, the ship's captain, Connecticut native Peter Wilcox.
MAGGIE WILLCOX, PETER WILLCOX'S WIFE: The situation he's in now is just way too extreme.
WATSON: Maggie and Peter Wilcox got married nearly eight months ago. Speaking exclusively to CNN, she shows me the last post card she received from her husband sent during a stop over in Norway on the way to the Arctic.
WILLCOX: His last sentence is it should be a cool action if the Russians can keep their sense of humor.
WATSON: But no one is laughing now as members of the Arctic 30 face up to 15 years in a Russian prison.
Wilcox spent decades with Greenpeace protesting to protect the environment.
WILLCOX: We all like to think we try to make the world a better place in our own small way, but it's rare for someone to devote their whole life to this. And Peter has.
WATSON: For his 18-year-old daughter Natasha, a college freshman, hearing her father called a pirate is a shock.
When you saw your father with handcuffs there, what kind of feeling did you have?
NATASHA WILLCOX, PETER WILLCOX'S DAUGHTER: Angry.
WATSON: Anger, huh?
N. WILLCOX: Yeah.
WATSON: Is there a message you'd want to send the authorities in Russia right now?
N. WILLCOX: I would ask them to open a dictionary and read the definition of piracy.
WATSON: In fact, Russia's powerful president Vladimir Putin told journalists last month it's obvious Wilcox and the other activists are not pirates. But that hasn't stopped a Russian judge from denying bail to the Greenpeace prisoners.
Natasha says Russian authorities have not let her speak to her father since his arrest.
N. WILLCOX: He's a dad and he's a husband. He's a brother. And he's more than just someone who was in charge of a crew who scaled an oil rig.
WATSON: For now, Peter Wilcox, also a prisoner and an alleged pirate whose family can do little more than wait and hope for their captain to come home.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Bristol, Rhode Island.
ANDERSON: Live from London, this is Connect the World. Coming up, he could be considered the most powerful man in Tripoli, possibly all of Libya, but he has nothing to do with the government.
And in this week's CNN preview, we go to L.A. and find out what made musician Moby so relaxed and why Johnny Rockman (ph) has no time for the rock 'n' roll museum. All that coming up.
ANDERSON: Well, gunmen have killed a senior military police commander in Libya. Officials say Colonel Ahmed al-Barghathi was shot outside his home in Benghazi. And that city was the cradle of the uprising, you'll remember that toppled Moammar Gadhafi, but has recently seen a wave of assassinations targeting security forces.
It's been two years since Gadhafi was killed. Many of the militia who took part in that revolution are still clinging on to their weapons.
Last week a group kidnapped the Libyan prime minister, but released him a few hours later reportedly at the orders of one man. CNN's Nic Robertson met that militia leader in Tripoli.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For almost two years, this man, Hasham Bishr, has been running security in Libya's capital. He takes credit for freeing the prime minister after he was recently kidnapped.
HASHAM BISHR, HEAD, SUPREME SECURITY COMMITTEE (through translator): It was accepted that it was a coup. I called my group and set up an operation room to handle the situation.
ROBERTSON: We meet in the garden of his Tripoli villa. He is not a general, not a police chief, but commands militias.
So this makes you the most powerful man in Tripoli, even Libya if you can rescue the prime minister?
BISHR (through translator): I am not the most powerful, but we got help from a lot of our relations and information. It's been two years in the capital Tripoli. So we managed to provide security as possible.
ROBERTSON: Bishr adopts a modest tone, yet his powerful militias should have been dissolved months ago.
But as I found out firsthand, Bishr's influence in this city ranges far and wide. It all began when we spotted a fire at the foreign ministry just over there. It came out of nowhere, engulfing the government building close to our hotel. I took a camera to get a closer look.
Within a few minutes, we were surrounded by vigilante thugs. They didn't have identification papers, they weren't wearing uniforms. They took away the camera and demanded we went with them. And it wasn't until I mentioned Bishr's name and friendly locals arrived that the situation began to diffuse. A few hours later, Bishr had our camera returned to us.
At moments, it felt like a kidnapping. This chaos, the clearest sign that dozens of militias and vigilante groups are still at-large in Libya, two years after the overthrow of Moammar Gadhafi they've refused to give up their guns and join the national army or police, because the real battle for power in Libya has yet to begin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is an Islamic current within Libya that doesn't want the state to rise. This is what is hindering the country.
ROBERTSON: This government security official wants his identity hidden, because what he says could cost him his life -- that al Qaeda in Libya is getting stronger, attracting hundreds of sympathizers from neighboring countries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They want to establish Libya as a religious state. They have recently threatened to destroy the interests of the European or American firms in Libya. We expect there will be trouble.
ROBERTSON: Bishr, who is accused by some of failing to integrate militias fast enough, say it's slow going because the new police are failing.
BISHR (through translator): From the security committee decided to combine these units, a large number of their members were enlisted into training, which resulted in a security vacuum in the capital.
ROBERTSON: A security vacuum that's already led to the kidnapping of a prime minister and leaves many worrying of an even bigger power play yet to come.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Tripoli, Libya.
ANDERSON: Well, the latest world news headlines are just ahead as you would imagine here on CNN at the bottom of the hour.
And a look at what can be done to tackle human trafficking on anti- slavery day in the UK.
Plus, see (inaudible) humanity as we know. It may be about to change as researchers discover an ancient fossil in Georgia.
ANDERSON: All right, this is CONNECT THE WORLD, the top stories this hour. Norwegian intelligence agents are in Kenya right now investigating a Norwegian citizen of Somali descent who is also a possible suspect in the Nairobi mall attack. The Somali militant group al-Shabaab claims responsibility for the mall siege that killed at least 57 people.
Well, the Taliban are claiming responsibility for a suicide car bombing in Kabul earlier today. The blast went off inside a residential compound where many foreign workers are based. Officials say two people were killed.
Fire crews are struggling to control nearly 100 bush fires in southeastern Australia. Hundreds of houses have burned down and one man died while defending his home. High winds and high temperatures have been stoking the flames.
And Google stocks soared above $1,000 a share earlier as investors cheered the company's latest quarterly report. The tech giant's sales jumped nearly $15 billion last quarter, blowing past investor expectations.
Today is Anti-Slavery Day here in the UK. It's an opportunity to raise awareness about the plight of the millions of people who are living as modern-day slaves. All this week, we've been highlighting the tragedy of human trafficking.
On Tuesday, we told you the story of Chong Kim, an American woman whose traumatic ordeal as a sex slave and subsequent escape inspired the critically-acclaimed feature film "Eden." She told us how she's still haunted by her experience.
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CHONG KIM, HUMAN TRAFFICKING SURVIVOR: I cannot get rid of the faces of the girls I couldn't save. I cannot get rid of the -- the screams.
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ANDERSON: Then on Wednesday, we told you about British girl Sophie Hayes who was forced into sex slavery by a man that she thought loved her.
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SOPHIE HAYES, HUMAN TRAFFICKING SURVIVOR: I worked seven nights a week, from 8:00 in the evening until 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning. I would have, on average, about 25 customers every night.
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ANDERSON: After escaping from captivity, Sophie has launched her own campaign to help victims and to warn others about falling into the same trap. All to often, these horrifying stories seem far removed, don't they? The cold fact, though, is that no one -- none of us -- is immune.
But our fight against slavery isn't limited to highlighting individual stories. As the first-ever Global Slavery Index has shown, nearly 30 million people are currently enslaved around the world. We make no apologies for the fact that we want to help put an end to modern-day slavery.
Last night, I chaired an event at Chatham House here in London that explored ways to dismantle an industry that robs people of their right to live in dignity and in peace. I asked leading experts what they believe the first steps that can be taken to achieve that.
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BHARTI PATEL, CEO, ECPAT UK: Every government of every country should recognize that children are their biggest asset for tomorrow's world and therefore invest in their children, stop this slavery, stop children from being exploited.
ANDERSON: Which means what? Enacting and empowering governments?
PATEL: It means acting, empowering governments. It means empowering the communities. It means providing opportunities for the children in education as well as in employment.
ANDERSON: You were the force behind this Global Slavery Index. What do you want the audience and the viewers to take away from tonight?
ANDREW FORREST, CHAIRMAN, WALK FREE: That the measurability will mean we can defeat slavery. As you saw from some in the audience, they still think that slavery's going to be here to stay forever. It's not. The instant we can measure it clearly, we can end it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So far, we've focused on the victims and raising awareness about their stories, but to truly understand the extent of the problem, we will try to understand the perpetrators' motives.
And for that, I sat down with Detective Inspector of the London Metropolitan Police's Human Trafficking and Prostitution Unit. His name is Kevin Hyland, and I began by asking him to describe the people committing what are, let's face it, these horrendous crimes.
KEVIN HYLAND, LONDON METROPOLITAN POLICE: Well the sort of people we meet, they have no regard for human life because they are very happy to turn a human being into a commodity. To them, a human is a way of making money, and lots of it.
The cases that we see, say, from Nigeria, the horror stories that we see of children being picked up off the streets of Benin and places in Nigeria, subject to Juju and witchcraft, duped into coming to the UK with false documents and then sold into the sex trade or sold as domestics.
ANDERSON: And the perpetrators of these crimes, these crimes against humanity, can oftentimes be women.
HYLAND: They can often be women. We've convicted a number of cases of women. A case that we dealt with convicted this year, a Romanian gang where they brought in children, and specifically, one child who was a slave in the house, taken from her family when she was four, was in slavery until she was seven, when we rescued her.
But in the same household, they had men that they would send out to commit petty crime, and they would threaten them with violence and sexually assault them if they didn't do as they're told. That gang was headed by a woman.
ANDERSON: The Global Slavery Index was launched this week. It suggests or reveals that 29 million people are denied their freedom around the world. It talks about the risk factors and, indeed, the measures that might help going forward. What are the biggest challenges that you face, and what do you need?
HYLAND: One of the steps that's being taken in the United Kingdom is a review of legislation, and I think the creation of a human trafficking bill or human trafficking act is a step in the right direction, because that is saying very clearly we are going to take this and deal with it.
And the other thing we need to be able to do is tackle the finances, and those finances need to be returned into the investigating of trafficking and the support of victims. We need to make it easier to work internationally, because it's source countries, where people are brought from, we need to be able to respond quickly.
A trafficker can get a person and book them on a flight as quick as they can book a ticket online. For the law enforcement to chase that up can takes weeks, months, and even years.
ANDERSON: Finally, just describe the industry to me and its links to others. My sense is that trafficking is hooked up with drugs, which is hooked up with arms. These are some of the biggest industries in the world, aren't they?
HYLAND: The real organized element of it, those that are moving people in bulk, we know are connected to other serious crime in the countries of origin, and we see cases where we've convicted people and the welfare amassed in other countries, for example, Thailand, where we work with the Thai authorities to strip someone of their assets, they're really significant assets.
ANDERSON: What are we talking about here? Millions of pounds?
HYLAND: We are talking about millions of pounds. If you look at -- you take the standing simple figures. We deal with women who are forced into prostitution.
Sex on the streets of London may be between 40 and 100 pounds. They may be forced to have sex with 50 or 60 people a week, easily. We have had cases where women have been forced to have over 30 a day. You've only got to work out the maths. If you've got 10 women for you, you soon become a millionaire.
ANDERSON: We've got a lot of social media reaction from all over the world to this series on modern-day slavery this week. Keira says, "Every time someone says, 'he said he loved me' breaks my heart. Love shouldn't hurt. I hope this practice is abolished in my lifetime." Keira, thank you for that.
Abimbola says the stories "alert people of the dangers in sex slavery and show how unsuspecting women are lured into it." And much of what we heard really spoke to these were like girls next-door. We cannot believe it happened to them, but it does, viewers.
We want to hear more about your thoughts on this series and what you think should be done to tackle this problem. You can reach out on facebook.com/CNNconnect. You can always tweet me @BeckyCNN, that is @BeckyCNN, your thoughts, please.
And you can find much more about the Freedom Project, that's CNN's fight against modern-day slavery, by going online. Just head to cnn.com/freedom.
Now, I'm going to bring you some images that CNN has just obtained of a man known as Ikrima. We told you about him earlier in the program, a person Kenyan authorities suspect was involved in last month's deadly mall attack in Nairobi.
Mohamed Abdikadar Mohamed, better known as Ikrima, is regarded as one of the most dangerous commanders of the Somali terror group al-Shabaab. Kenyan authorities suspect he was involved in the Westgate mall attack last month, and US officials say he was the target of a raid earlier this month by US Navy SEALs on an al Qaeda -- sorry, al-Shabaab compound in Somalia.
Friends of his say he is a Somalian who grew up in Nairobi, Kenya, and is thought to be in late 20s. Kenyan intelligence sources say he is the main point person between al Qaeda in Somalia and al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula. Pictures just into CNN.
Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson at 41 minutes past 8:00 here. Coming up, you're going to find out why researchers in Georgia have a bone to pick with the history of humanity. That up next.
ANDERSON: If you think this is how humans evolved, a new discovery may prove you are wrong and change what we know about our ancestors. Welcome back. In Eastern Europe, a discovery of an almost 2 million-year- old skull has become a bone of contention amongst scientists because it calls into question the way that we have classified our ancestors. Let me explain.
ANDERSON (voice-over): It's a discovery that's threatening to shake the leaves off our evolutionary family tree. A 1.8 million-year-old skull from one of our ancestors, Homo Erectus, unearthed in recent years in Dmanisi, a town in the Eastern European nation of Georgia.
ANDERSON: It was found at the same location as four incomplete skulls, all from the same time period. Up until now, a widely-accepted model of the way we evolved includes several different branches of early man: Homo Rudolfensis, Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus.
Researchers looking at these new skulls say because they show such variations in appearance, they suggest that what was thought to be several species of early man are, in fact, just variations of one: Homo Erectus.
The research team says the extent of the variations between these ancient individuals is as wide as what we see in humans today. In our modern world, mankind has so many shapes, sizes, colors, and looks, this new discovery could mean that maybe our ancestors were just the same: many unique individuals, but all the same species in the end.
ANDERSON: Well, we've got Fred Spoor with us tonight. He's a professor of evolutionary Anatomy at the University College London. He's brought his friends along --
FRED SPOOR, PROFESSOR OF EVOLUTIONARY ANATOMY, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE LONDON: Absolutely.
ANDERSON: -- with him this evening. Before we talk about what you've got here, listen. What is not in doubt is this find is, as far as I understand, the first complete skull of an early Homo Erectus, and that in itself is stunning, isn't it?
SPOOR: It is, absolutely. This, it is unprecedented --
SPOOR: Well, because it's so complete, and there's a cranium, the top part, there's a lower jaw, there's even bones of the limbs as well. So we know a lot about this chap, because it was most likely a man. Small brain, big mouth, so --
SPOOR: -- that says it all.
ANDERSON: Sounds familiar.
SPOOR: Yes, absolutely.
ANDERSON: So, why is it so stunningly controversial?
SPOOR: Well, the authors give a good description of this new skull, but then they start to interpret it, and then they, I think, go a little bit overboard. They then claim, well, the five skulls in total that we have in our place in Georgia are so variable, and still they belong to one species only.
Then they go to East Africa and look at the things that have been dug up since the 70s by the Leakey family, for instance, these all come from Kenya.
ANDERSON: Those that we've got, walk me through. Walk me through. What have we go there?
SPOOR: Yes, yes. This is Homo Erectus, here, classic Homo Erectus. This is Homo Habilis. And this is a chap called Homo Rudolfensis with a very flat face, completely the opposite in many respects from this new skull.
ANDERSON: Break this all down for me.
ANDERSON: I know nothing about science, so, so what? Why do I care?
SPOOR: Why do you care? Because how humans evolved, there's a major debate, did we evolve just like any other mammal and have the patterns of evolution of any other mammal? And that means that there were constantly new species emerging. The climate changes a little bit, it gets drier or it gets wetter, a new species emerges to fit in that niche there.
Or are we so special as humans that we actually evolved along to the - - like the cartoon that everybody knows from a little hunched chimpanzee up to a complete upright human.
ANDERSON: And you don't buy that, do you?
SPOOR: I don't buy that because what they do is, the best analogy that I can give, if I give you an apple and an orange and say to you analyze these and say if they're different. And if you just sort of put some measurements on the outside, then you say, well, they're about this size and they are round, so they must be the same thing.
But yes, if you look inside, the pits are very different, the flesh is very different. It's the same with these things. If you just very broadly analyze what they look on the outside, it all looks the same.
ANDERSON: This has got you lot really hot under your collar, this find, doesn't it?
SPOOR: Well, you know --
SPOOR: We work hard to try to get this out, and it's scientific debate.
SPOOR: So, the truth will, you could argue, almost never be found. But the argument goes on, and every time, we come a little bit closer to the truth. So, we will have undoubtedly a good old row in the coming year.
ANDERSON: Fantastic. We love a fight. Good.
SPOOR: There you go.
ANDERSON: Thank you, Fred. For more on this story, of course, you can head online to cnn.com, there's an awful lot there. I think that article alone has generated some 2,500 comments. People love this debate.
All right, coming up after this short break on CONNECT THE WORLD, this week's CNN Preview, we're going to find out what Moby's been up to in La-La Land, and what we can expect from his new music. That's after this.
ANDERSON (voice-over): We've a Rotten edition of CNN Preview this week as former Sex Pistol and Public Image Ltd front man John Lydon is honored for shaking up the music world.
JOHN LYDON, MUSICIAN: I don't take the words lightly.
ANDERSON: But first, Moby invites us on one of the shortest world tours in history. A born and bred New Yorker, Moby is now living in LA and loving his new home in the Hollywood hills, where he recorded his new album, "Innocents."
(MUSIC - "THE PERFECT LIFE" BY MOBY)
MOBY, MUSICIAN: At times, I felt a degree of pressure from the people I worked with to make music that might have more commercial viability.
(MUSIC - "THE PERFECT LIFE" BY MOBY)
MOBY: But now, there's no reason to make any sort of compromise in the interest of selling records, because for the most part, people don't really buy records. And so, with this album, "Innocents," and my last couple of albums, I just felt this sort of emancipation, because the only pressure I feel is the pressure to try and make music that I love.
ANDERSON: Moby's taking his music on the road, and we're following him as he heads for opening night. It's a unique world tour, as all the dates take place within walking distance of his home at LA's famous Fonda Theater, and there are only three dates.
MOBY: I've decided not to tour simply so that I can stay home and spend more time working on music, and this, of course, is driving my manager insane. Because in 2013, the only way a musician makes money is from touring. But being at home working on music is just what I really love.
(MUSIC - "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN" BY THE SEX PISTOLS)
(MUSIC - "RISE" BY PUBLIC IMAGE LTD)
(MUSIC - "THIS IS NOT A LOVE SONG" BY PUBLIC IMAGE LTD)
ANDERSON: The music world would most likely be a very different place without the intervention of one John Lydon.
(MUSIC - "LOLLIPOP OPERA" BY PUBLIC IMAGE LTD)
ANDERSON: Currently touring with his band PiL, he has broken barriers with experimental and inventive styles of music. And with his previous band, the Sex Pistols, he broke cultural barriers, too, under the name Johnny Rotten. As recorded in Julian Temple's landmark music documentary, "The Filth and the Fury."
JOHN LYDON, MUSICIAN: I love the release of songwriting. You could coin in words and phrases something that's so hard to explain emotionally.
(MUSIC - "ONE DROP" BY PUBLIC IMAGE LTD)
LYDON: When you combine those words with emphasis and music and tones from working with the right people who are in complete empathy with you, it achieves something that's inspiring, and it makes you want to do better and better and better and better.
(MUSIC - "ONE DROP" BY PUBLIC IMAGE LTD)
ANDERSON: After a music career spanning almost 40 years, Lydon is being honored as an Icon by the music rights group, BMI.
DEL BRYANT, PRESIDENT, BMI: BMI's 2013 Icon, Mr. John Lydon.
(MUSIC - "ONE DROP" BY PUBLIC IMAGE LTD)
LYDON: You can have me as an icon, but I'm Johnny. I see myself more as an I-can. I do what I can because I can.
A lot of serious songwriting went into this.
BRYANT: He's had a vast influence on many, many, many people. And the award reads, "For the influences on generations of music makers."
ANDERSON: It's a marked contrast to his rejection of induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
LYDON: Sorry, I've got no time for that. The legacy of what is the Pistols is too good to be just squashed into a glass compartment somewhere underneath a staircases in a museum.
ANDERSON: That's all for this edition of CNN Preview. Until next time, it's good-bye from him --
MOBY: I'm Moby, and you're watching CNN Preview.
ANDERSON: And, of course, from him.
LYDON: Uh --
ANDERSON: Well, it's been an extraordinary past few weeks -- hasn't it? -- for the Pakistani teen Malala Yousufzai. First she published a book. Now she's met with one of the most high-profile women in the world. Max Foster reports.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Two iconic women, one in her eighties, one in her teens, coming together here at Buckingham Palace. Malala discussed with the monarch the cause that she's come to symbolize: education for all.
MALALA YOUSUFZAI, EDUCATION ACTIVIST: This Friday, I had to miss my school because I was meeting the queen, and it was -- it's such an honor for me to be here, now, in Buckingham Palace. And it was really an honor to meet the queen because I also wanted to raise the issue of girls not being educated on a higher platform.
FOSTER: It was only a few days ago that Malala met President Obama at the White House. She has assured her place in history, and these images really illustrate that.
There was some fun, here, as well at Buckingham Palace. Malala met Prince Philip, who appears to have made another gaffe.
YOUSUFZAI: He said parents are tired of children, that's why they sent them to school. Something like that, I'm not sure. But I laughed. And he was laughing.
FOSTER: Meanwhile, at the other end of London, a future queen, the Duchess of Cambridge, was at the Olympic Park showing off her sporting prowess. She played volleyball in no less than three-inch-high wedge heels. She was there to support and promote future Olympic and Paralympic hopefuls.
It was her first solo outing since having a baby, and we'll see her again on Wednesday at the christening of Prince George.
Max Foster, CNN, Buckingham Palace, London.
ANDERSON: In tonight's Parting Shots, we thought it best to bring you Prince Philip's joke with Malala.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE PHILIP, DUKE OF EDINBURGH: It's one thing about children going to school. They go to school because their parents don't want them in the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Hm. I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD. From the team here in London and our colleagues in Atlanta, it's a very good evening. Thank you for watching.