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Hunt for Two Killers Freed, By Mistake; Government Lumbers Back to Life; Charges in Missouri Rape Case May Be Re-filed; Ted Cruz Criticizes Republican Party; JPMorgan Chase Reaches $13 billion Deal with Justice Department; NASA Trying to Catch Space Rocks; How Far Can We Kick the Can?

Aired October 19, 2013 - 17:00   ET


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. It is the top of the hour. Back now to our live coverage.

Bizarre twists in the hunt for two Florida killers freed from prison by mistake. We now know both Charles Walker and Joseph Jenkins spent time with their families in Orlando going to church, even visiting their grandparents. Apparently they were not hiding at all for days even a couple of weeks. Now a manhunt is under way to put the killers back behind bars. And just a short time ago, Walker's mother stood before cameras pleading with her son to turn himself in.


LILLY DANZY, MOTHER OF ESCAPED INMATE CHARLES WALKER: Charles, is there anything too hard for God? God knows who you are. I know who you are. Your family knows who you are. And we want you to return home safely.


LEMON: Both men were serving life sentences for murder. Forged paperwork douched prison officials into thinking the men's sentences had been reduced.

I want to go straight now to Nick Valencia who has been tracking this story near Caravel, Florida. So, Nick, CNN talk with the son of a man murdered by of one these two? How is the son handling this with his father's killer free?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, lost in this bureaucratic bundle by all the agencies involved in this mistake and released of these two convicts is the emotion of the victims' family. Our CNN crew in Orlando sat down with the son of one of those victims of Joseph Jenkins and just by listening to him, Don, you can really tell how terrified he is and just how distraught he us after learning of his father's murder's release.


ROSCO PUGH III, SON OF MAN KILLED BY JOSEPH PUGH: Like it's not a game, like, no one's taking it for granted. No one is taking it lightly. We're taking it as if the last time we saw this guy was when he killed our dad and that was 15 or 16 years ago and now he's out, we don't know what he's capable of. That was the last time we saw him.


VALENCIA: The emotions are also rougher Evangeline Naquer (ph), she's the mother of the victim of Charles Walker, we spoke to her a couple of days ago and she was saying that she's just terrified that her son's killers are out, they don't understand how this could happen and on top of that, the finger-pointing going on by all these agencies involved. No one wants to take credit for the mistake and no one seems to know just how this happened -- Don.

LEMON: And Nick, the latest on the search, what do we know?

VALENCIA: Well, we heard from the sheriff's department in Orange County a little while ago and they said they have legitimate reason to believe that both of the convicts are in the state of Florida, perhaps even more specifically in Orlando area. Getting back to Evangeline Naquer (ph), the mother of one of those victims, she spoke to our CNN team and she said that one of her family friends, friends of the family notified that her that Charles Walker was walking around a mall in Orlando just free like everybody else. The investigation has no new leads today, but the FDLE, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement says, they're following tips that they've gotten and they've talked to the family members. Also getting back to that press conference earlier, the family members, they made it a point to stress that they had nothing to do with the escape of either two of these escaped convicts, that they were not involved, they had nothing to do with it and they stressed that at the press conference earlier today -- Don.

LEMON: Nick Valencia in Florida. Nick, I appreciate your reporting. And make sure you join us tonight. Tonight at 8:00 Eastern when we look at the big crime stories of the week from the Florida inmates accidentally released that Nick just spoke about to the Missouri teen, his family was run out of town after she cried rape to the Utah doctor accused of murdering his wife in the bathtub. We're covering these stories from every angle for you, making the case, that's tonight 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN "Making the Case," 8:00 Eastern.

Well, hallelujah, this is good news, the United States government open again and hundreds of thousands of federal employees -- federal employees returning to their offices again. It was Thursday when the blur of commuters returned to the D.C. rush hour. This after a 16-day partial government shutdown that kept thousands of offices and public sites closed and locked, but the solution is a temporary one. And our Chris Lawrence is in Washington right now with the very latest. Chris?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, the clock is definitely ticking because all the last deal did was just set a new deadline to come up with a more permanent agreement, and now they've got to figure out a way to reach some sort of compromise in about eight weeks. That's something they couldn't do in six months preceding the last deal. I spoke with a representative from taxpayers for common sense, who talked about the realistic chances of finding some common ground.


LAWRENCE: Do you think there's any chance that the folks in that building are going to do a better job of compromising this time?

STEVE ELLIS, TAXPAYERS FOR COMMON SENSE: They have to. I mean, it's hard to do much worse than what they've done in the past, and so really, all eyes are on them. And we need them to step up. We actually need lawmakers to do their job for once.


LAWRENCE: So, here's where we stand. The House passed a budget that contains about $4 trillion in spending cuts. The Senate passed a budget that has about $1 trillion in new taxes. They've got to come together by the middle of December to reach some sort of compromise. And both sides may have more incentive to deal this time around. Hardcore conservatives who took the nation, you know, over the edge so to speak last time, they may be more sidelined and that may empower House Speaker John Boehner during the next round of negotiations. The trump card has been played so to speak with the shutdown. On the other side Democrats who refused to negotiate last time around, well, now they're coming up against mandatory across-the-board spending cuts that they don't want to see and so perhaps, perhaps, we'll see a deal before the eleventh hour -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Chris, thank you.

A dangerous asteroid zipped past our earth last night and we didn't even know it, the asteroid was discovered during the government shutdown while NASA was closed. See what happens when you shut the government down. NASA says, the astronaut came within about four million miles of the earth, it's not due to make a return visit for 19 years. We'll have more on that story a little bit later on in this hour.

Now, NASA employees are among the min-government workers who have returned to their jobs after being furloughed for nearly three weeks and tourists are flocking to the reopened landmarks. CNN's Rene Marsh has more now, Rene?


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.


RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tourists lined up as the nation's parks, museums and memorials re-opened for business, from the Florida Everglades to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.

(on camera): How does it feel to be inside.


MARSH: How does it feel to be inside?


MARSH (voice-over): Employees are back on the job after three weeks of forced time off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's good to be back at work.

MARSH: On Capitol Hill where most members have fled for their home districts, the furloughed staffer got the historical clock ticking again. But as the vice president greeted returning EPA employees with muffins, he warned all that time off would mean a backlog of paperwork.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Now they're back and they have all that work piled up. They have a lot to do. I'm not going to hold them up anymore.

MARSH: So, for the first few days back, federal employees say they'll be playing catch up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did go on work wise for the past couple weeks.

MARSH: This FAA employee told us it could take him a week to clear the backlog. In Alaska, king crab fishermen could lose tens of thousands of dollars a day waiting in the harbor while returning federal workers sift through their catch permit requests.

MARK GLEASON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA BERING SEA CRABBERS: I'm very hopeful that when the government opens, the agency will make it a top priority to get that crab issued or get that quota issued.

MARSH: Medical researchers say it will take time to ramp up their projects again. The good news, once again, Americans can tune in to the National Zoo's panda cam, which is broadcasting online with heightened interest, causing some delays. One thing on the minds of many, hoping Congress doesn't force them through another shutdown in a few months.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My understanding is this is just for 90 days. After 90 days, then what?

Rene Marsh, CNN Washington.


LEMON: Very good question. After 90 days, then what?

We have some new information here to CNN. CNN has confirmed that JP Morgan Chase has tentatively reached a $13 billion deal with the Justice Department to resolve several investigations of its mortgage business. A U.S. official tells CNN this -- JP Morgan Chase would pay $9 billion in fines and penalties plus $4 billion in consumer relief that includes loan modifications. Apparently JP Morgan executives and workers could still face charges in the future. The official tells CNN the tentative deal does not include a non-prosecution agreement that JP Morgan Chase had pushed hard to include. We're going to talk about that, what this might mean to you and to me and just a little bit later on this hour so make sure you stay tuned.

You know, it may just be the lasting legacy of President Barack Obama, but right now the only thing that's lasting is problems with the ObamaCare website where Americans are supposed to sign up. Does it need to be scrapped and remade entirely? That's next.

And ahead, some are saying a rape case in Missouri may not be prosecuted -- may not get prosecuted -- because the accused comes from a family with ties to local politics.


LEMON: So, it never takes long for politicians to figure out who to blame for any problem, right? And when it comes to the train wreck rollout of the ObamaCare website, Republicans are pointing the finger at none other than Kathleen Sebelius, her Health and Human Services Department was in charge of creating that website. The site has experienced numerous problems, many problems, so she is getting the lion's share of the blame. Her boss has even said some of these problems are unacceptable. Our Brianna Keilar has more now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: In the beginning of October, the White House tried to put a positive spin on this, saying the problems with stemmed very much from the fact that so many people were going to the website. An independent analysis, however, showed that just one percent of people who attempted to register at, the federal exchange, were able ultimately to sign up for ObamaCare. So, now there's a realization that there really have been these structural problems, something we heard President Obama be very candid about this week.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: I am the first to acknowledge that the website that was supposed to do this all in a seamless way has had way more glitches than I think are acceptable. And we've got people working around the clock to do that. And we've seen some significant progress, but until it's 100 percent, I'm not going to be satisfied.


KEILAR: President Obama said employees are working around the clock to fix the website. That's really the first step. I spoke with supporters of ObamaCare, and they say after that it's an issue of public awareness. We saw President Obama at the beginning of the month do a couple of high-profile events, he may have to do something like that again. And then they raised the question about this penalty that kicks in if you haven't signed up for insurance by the end of March, some are wondering if perhaps that penalty could be delayed.

LEMON: All right, Brianna, thank you very much.

You know, Sebelius couldn't even catch a break on the "Daily Show" where Jon Stewart poked fun at her for the website's failures.


JON STEWART, HOST: We're going to do a challenge. I'm going to try and download every movie ever made and you are going to try and sign up for ObamaCare and we'll see which happens first.



LEMON: Ouch. The problem could be getting worse instead of better. Some insurers say that they're getting the wrong data from the feds.

Here to talk about ObamaCare's issues CNN Money Tech pro, Laurie Siegel. I mean, it's terrible. Let's not beat around the bush, it is awful and it is embarrassing that they've had so much time to figure this out and they haven't figured it out. And they're inviting the criticism from their critics, so what is going so wrong with this? Contracts to the wrong companies, who's to blame for all of this?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECHN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you are correct. Things are not going very well here as we all know.

LEMON: An understatement. Yes.

SEGALL: But who are you going to indict? I think a lot of people are saying, indict the system. I mean, you have contractors and budget constraints and timing regulations. There was all this traffic, I think 4.6 million people signing on in the first 24 hours, but then you had trouble on the back end. You know, I thought I know a ton of folks in Silicon Valley, these are the pros, so I spoke to Matt Mullenweg right now he's the founder of WordPress, and Don, let me put this in context for you. WordPress essentially powers one in every five sites on the internet, listen to what he said.



MATT MULLENWEG, FOUNDER, WORDPRESS: You know, in software they say you can have it fast, cheap, or good, pick two out of three and it sounds like they went for the fast and cheaper. Software is difficult to do, and you can't manage it like construction, and typically especially in Silicon Valley, like, we use the very latest technologies. Often government hasn't adopted many of those yet and if they haven't properly load tested the website beforehand it's very possible that, you know, it can be overwhelmed with -- they find bottlenecks.


SEGALL: And let me also put this in context for you, WordPress funded $30 million over an eight-year span, ObamaCare's website funded hundreds of millions of dollars in the last year, so pretty eye opening when you put those numbers together. LEMON: I know you said, you know, you can't -- there's a lot of blame to go around. I think the blame falls on the Obama administration, because this was their deal, they know technology was part of it, their winning strategy, technology. This isn't something that you can farm out like a contractor to the lowest bidder, correct?

SEGALL: I mean, absolutely not. Think about the Silicon Valley companies, they recruit for the best engineers if this is a project that's going to get any on his way. You know, I spoke to Mark Benioff, he's the CEO of a company called Salesforce and I said, you know, what could they have done better? I mean, let's talk to these folks. And let me read to you what he said to me, he said, it's too bad the government is not using the cloud or this wouldn't be happening. They are still building with a two-decade-old architecture. And it's surprising because Obama's administration has been notorious for kind of being pretty decent with technology at least more so than others.

LEMON: Yes. So, where was it, this was some company in Canada, right, so Canadian company that put the website together, what would have happened, had it been Google or Apple or someone from Silicon Valley designing this site?

SEGALL: Oh, I asked Matt, why didn't they just call you to come in and do this. You know, look, Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook's CEO, he says move fast and break things, well, in the government it looks like things aren't moving that quickly.

LEMON: But they are breaking things.

SEGALL: They surely are breaking things, which is a problem. But I should say, this was a complex website, we have to understand, on the back end it's pinging other federal agencies when you go in and you sign up. So, they needed to anticipate for these levels, they clearly didn't understand that 4.6 million people would going to be signing on in the first couple of days. They needed to go ahead and they needed to break the servers before they even put them out there to see how much traffic they could even -- they could even withstand.

LEMON: Yes, so it sounds to me like maybe -- I don't even know. I haven't even gone on to try to do it. Initially you can sort of get on and do it but once you start to try to connect to other agencies depending on where you fall in the health care thing, that's where things start to break down?

SEGALL: Essentially the problem within the account creation part of the process, bottom line.

LEMON: Got it. We shall see. All they have to do instead of shutting the government down is just let it -- this happen and then that would have made their case for them. OK, thank you.

SEGALL: Thank you.

LEMON: I appreciate that, Laurie. Up next, crime and the mind. Could a 12-year-old suicide raise the stakes in the fight to stop bullying? Should prosecutors start going after parents?


LEMON: All right. Right now it's time for "Crime and the Mind." This week a couple of cases captured our attention. First of all, a 12-year-old's girl suicide in Florida raises the stakes in the anti- bullying crusade when kids torment others kids, should prosecutors go after the parents? And emotional wounds are ripped open when a case of alleged rape gets a second look by investigators in a small town in Missouri.

First to Florida where a young girl jumped to her death after allegedly being bullied by two former friends, Rebecca Sedwick is the victim and her classmates were arrested, charged with stalking and tormenting Rebecca online. What started this chain of events, the girls liked the same boy. Senseless and tragic.

So, let's bring in now, criminal defense Attorney Holly Hughes and human behavior expert Wendy Walsh. OK, Holly, first to you, let's revisit my question from earlier. Could and should prosecutors go after the parents here?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: As the law is drafted right now, they cannot. Now, interestingly enough, the mother of one of the girls who allegedly bullied Rebecca has been arrested on separate charges, Don, where she is actually caught on videotape beating, pummeling, with closed fists other teenage children. So, you know, the old expression that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, I mean, this young girl who is now charged with this stalking, obviously learned this behavior somewhere and we can see where because her mother is caught on video abusing other children and has now been charged with that crime.

LEMON: Wendy, the bullying got very nasty online. Parents have enough on their plates. I mean, what advice do you have for them when it comes to monitoring their online activity? Obviously, I mean, this parent is a different story, though.

WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Well, I think the usual, that we all need to be our child's friend on Facebook. We need to be their twitter follower. We need to be as aware as we can. But it is impossible to really keep tabs on everything your child is doing online. I think more importantly, and this is not to blame the parents in this tragic incident of the girl who committed suicide. This was her second suicide attempt. She'd been suffering from depression. If you have a child with mental health issues, allowing them to have free rein online could be very injurious to them. So, I would say, be particularly careful about kids who are more sensitive and controlling their access to the digital world.

LEMON: All right. You bring up a very good point. I'm going to present that question similarly to Holly. Let's look at this Facebook angle. Can someone's words or online posts be used against them for another person's death? And I mean, is this like pulling the trigger?

HUGHES: Well, it's free speech, Don, that's what you're going to run into. Unless somebody is actively saying, you know, you need to go out and kill yourself and encouraging the person to do that over and over and then taking additional steps, any speech that's posted on Facebook is going to be seen as free speech and protected under the first amendment. So, right now, no, it can't be used to charge them. However, if there is additional evidence, you better believe that those posts will be entered into evidence in the trial to prove the state of mind of the bully or the person accused.

So, it's not enough to charge them. You're not going to be able to say you made this person commit murder based on your Facebook post and that's what we're charging you with. However, the sheriff down there has charged them with stalking because of the amount of time that they went after this girl online.

LEMON: I think you should be able to. I think people -- I think people say the nastiest things online and on websites, on twitter and on Facebook. I think you should be able to prosecute someone for their words. I think it should be a like a trigger. And do you think we can ever get to that point, Holly? I have 20 seconds left.

HUGHES: I don't think you're going to. I think the first amendment protects unless it's something like yelling fire in a crowded theater, you're not going to be able to go on words alone. There have to be actions.

LEMON: Wendy?

WALSH: Teach their kids to block their friends and block the bullies and you need to block some of your twitter followers, I think, Don.

LEMON: We'll talk about that, Wendy. You and I will have a long conversation about that at 6:00 Eastern.

But up next, why are prosecutors taking a new look into the Missouri girls' allegations that they were raped by a couple of football players and why were the charges dropped in the first place? Could it have been politics?


LEMON: All right, back now to our crime in the mind segment and now to Missouri where two girls say they were raped at a party. Charges were filed, then dropped, and now could be re-filed. A lot of confusion and controversy on the case, not to mention emotional wounds ripped right open. And there is a twist. The victims say the case was dropped because one of the boys' grandfathers is a former state legislator.

George Howell has the details for you.


GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a topic most people here don't like talking about publicly but nearly everyone has a strong opinion about it, the alleged sexual assault of two girls, ages 13 and 14 at the time, by a senior football player and one of his friends. The case closed not more than two years ago, until now. A special prosecutor will be appointed as early as next week to review the facts and determine whether to re-file charges.

Jeffrey Price, who grew up in Maryville, Missouri, says it's about time.

JEFFREY PRICE, MARYVILLE, MISSOURI RESIDENT: I think it's a great thing, because I think that Matt Barnett got off scott-free because of his family.

HOWELL: Matt Barnett was accused by Daisy Coleman of raping her and leaving her to die outside her house. Coleman and her mother Melinda accused the prosecutor of dropping felony charges against Barnett because he's from a prominent political family.

Maryville resident, Kyle Ponder, says the allegations from both sides have divided his town.

KYLE PONDER, MARYVILLE, MISSOURI RESIDENT: Half the town is for the girl and the other half of the town is for the boys.

HOWELL: It comes down to one key question: Why was the case closed in the first place? Prosecutor Robert Rice tells CNN neither Daisy nor her mother wanted to testify at the time.

ROBERT RICE, PROSECUTOR: The witnesses never told me or came up and contacted me to tell me they changed their mind after the moment they invoked their Fifth Amendment right in a deposition under oath.

HOWELL (on camera): You know, they say that they didn't do that, though.

RICE: I understand what they say, and we've got a deposition under oath. And the reason why we did the deposition under oath is because I had a feeling that this could be an issue later on and I wanted to document the file.

HOWELL (voice-over): Rice says it wasn't until he heard the teen's interview on CNN's "OutFront" that he decided to request a special prosecutor step in.

Barnett is not speaking publicly, but his attorney says his client admits there was a sexual encounter, but claims it was consensual.

Barnett's grandfather, a former state representative, rejects any claims that his grandson was given special treatment.

REX BARNETT, BARNETT'S GRANDFATHER & FORMER MISSOURI STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I knew because, as long as I've been in politics and law enforcement, I knew if this thing drug on very long, I would be pulled into it some way or the other just for political reasons. So I made it a point not to talk to the prosecuting attorney, to the sheriff, to any of the witnesses directly or indirectly. And I stuck to that.


LEMON: All right, our thanks to George Howell for that report.

You know, I know criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes, and human behavior expert, Wendy Walsh, have a lot to say about this particular case.

Wendy, I want to talk to you first on this one.

The boy's family says the sex was consensual, but Daisy was 14 at the time. She's a minor. What do you make of this explanation?

WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT & PSYCHOLOGIST: So keep in mind, one was prosecuted because the girl was 13 but in that state when the girl is 14, having sex with a 17-year-old could be considered consensual. However, both girls were given a clear liquid when they arrived in a large glass and drank it very quickly, so alcohol could have been used as a weapon in this case.

I think the big issue here, this is social class, Don. Just look at the backgrounds in that tape. I'm talking about the locations where they're shot and you have an idea where the money is flowing and what's happening in this town.

LEMON: Yeah. Isn't it -- you know, we've been talking about this a lot, social class has a lot to do with a lot of what we talk about, right? A lot of crime.

WALSH: Uh-huh.

LEMON: Holly, could the boy's friend who allegedly videotaped the incident be charged with anything?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: He could be actually, Don, under what they call the "party to a crime" concept, which, if you are -- it's kind of like when you used to watch the old police show, they used to say, you're aiding and abetting, right? That's what we call here. We call it "party to a crime" now. So if you, in any way, encourage or assist or stand by and sort of help the person or allow the person to commit the crime, you could also be charged with that underlying felony. So, yes, he does also run the risk of being charged. But if they're smart, what the prosecutor that's now being appointed is going to do is flip him and use him to testify against the main felon who is accused of the rape.

LEMON: Holly, I want to stay with you here, because we talked about the family -- the guy was a football player.

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: Daisy's family says, apart from him being a high school football player, that the alleged rapist's grandfather is a former state legislator, and so the case was dropped. Is there any way to prove that? HUGHES: You know, absent a videotape where they're actually caught admitting that was the reason for dropping it, no, there's not. You know, you can certainly suspect based on all the facts and circumstances. It's called circumstantial evidence. You can look at the power structure, who's in charge here, who's the politician, who's the big man on campus, and you can make an assumption, but can you ever prove that in a court of law? Not unless you have somebody who's written it down in an e-mail saying, look, I'm afraid to go after this guy, the state legislature might come after me, you're not going to be able to prove that.


And, Wendy, teens are becoming adults very quickly. As time goes on, we say, my gosh, these kids grow up --


WALSH: No, they're not. They're engaging in adult-like behavior that they're not ready for. There's a difference.


LEMON: Yeah. Go on.

WALSH: Well, you know, in the earlier segment, when we were talking about the young girl who tragically committed suicide and was fighting online with another girl over a boy, these were 12-year-olds and 13- year-olds. The boy, we had him on the "Dr. Drew Show" the other night, had just turned 13, and he was oblivious to it all. He goes, she was a nice girl, I walked around the track with here, we used to talk. He didn't even realize this was going on with the girls.

I think we're pushing adolescents faster and faster because, again, our highly sexualized media and the access to inappropriate material starts to make them think that they're ready, because their bodies are ready, but their minds are not ready. They're not emotionally mature enough.

LEMON: Yeah.

Holly, you said something very interesting to me in the break. You said that the laws have not caught up with the technology, as far as what's terroristic threats --

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: -- what's an imminent threat.

HUGHES: Absolutely.


HUGHES: The legislature needs to catch up with the technology, Don, because, 20 years ago, we didn't have to legislate something called cyber bullying. Bullying was on the playground and one kid called another kid a name and you got into a fistfight over it.

LEMON: Right.

HUGHES: That was bullying. And now, unfortunately, what our kids are exposed is 24 hours a day. On Twitter -- there's the anonymity of Twitter, so you feel free to get on there and say the most hateful and vile things that you wouldn't have the guts to say to someone's face.

LEMON: Oh, no. Not at all.

HUGHES: And that's -- right.

LEMON: Yeah.

HUGHES: And that's what these kids are exposed to --


HUGHES: It's not just on the playground. It's even when they go home, 24 hours a day.

LEMON: Yeah. I was going to say that maybe parenting hasn't caught up with it either --

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: -- because it's a new technology.

Thank you.

Thank you, both.

Wendy, I'll see you a little bit later on.

And also, this is very interesting. You need to watch this tonight. We'll have more on that story tonight on CNN at 8:00, CNN 8:00 eastern. It's a special. We'll also have the very latest on the bizarre story of those Florida inmates, convicted murderers set free because of forged document. And the Utah doctor in Houston accused of murdering his wife in the bathtub. Those stories and more tonight. Our special, CNN special, "Making the Case," 8:00 p.m. eastern. Make sure you tune in. I'm sure you will like it, absolutely.

A $13 billion deal. CNN has confirmed JPMorgan Chase has reached a deal with the Justice Department. Why they were under investigation and what this deal might mean to you, that's next.


LEMON: Republican Senator Ted Cruz is talking about the government shutdown and he is criticizing his own party. As you know, he led the charge to pursue the shutdown in an effort to defund Obamacare. And in a speech today to a Republican women's group in his home state of Texas, he said Republican Senators should have supported House Republicans who voted for the shutdown. Instead, he said, they abandoned members of their own party. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS: The House Republicans marched into battle courageously and the Senate Republicans should have come in like the cavalry to support them. Unfortunately, a significant chunk of Senate Republicans instead came like the Air Force and began bombing the House Republicans, our own troops.


LEMON: So, Cruz didn't stop there. In his words, "You can't win a fight when your cannons are pointed at your own guys."

Well, Ted Cruz talks to CNN's Dana Bash. You'll see the full interview tomorrow on "State of the Union," 9:00 a.m. and at noon, both eastern times. Arizona Senator John McCain is also on the show. Don't want to miss that. That's going to be very interesting to watch.

New today, CNN confirms that JPMorgan Chase has tentatively reached a $13 billion deal with the Justice Department to resolve several investigations of its mortgage business. A U.S. official tells CNN the deal provides that JPMorgan Chase would pay $9 billion in fines and penalties, plus $4 billion in consumer relief that includes loan modifications. Apparently, JPMorgan executives and workers could still face charges in the future. The official tells CNN the tentative intended deal does not include a non-prosecution agreement that the company had pursued and pushed for, pushed hard to include.

CNN justice reporter, Evan Perez, tracking this story for us in Washington and he joins us now by phone.

Evan, hello to you. What does this mean to you and me and every other regular person out there watching?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER (voice-over): Well, hi, Don. Well, this is -- you know, this has been a big thing that's been hanging over JPMorgan Chase. And the tentative settlement includes some money that could end up benefiting homeowners, especially underwater homeowners, whose mortgages might be eligible to be -- to be changed to perhaps, you know, get some benefit out of this $4 billion piece of this deal. The rest of it is going to go to the Treasury Department and perhaps will, you know, make up for some of the damage done by the shutdown that you were just talking about.

LEMON: So, then, where does the money go? Is this going to impact the markets, and on and on?

PEREZ: Well, yeah, the Treasury Department -- the treasury is going to get the big chunk of the money there. Some of it is going to go towards helping to make up some of the losses that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac took for buying some very poor loans from JPMorgan and some of the other companies that it owns. And some of it will -- you know, it's not clear whether any of it will get to investors. And like I said, some of the homeowners, some underwater homeowners might get better terms on their mortgages as part of this deal as well. LEMON: OK, Evan Perez is our justice reporter, joining us from D.C.

Evan, thank you. Appreciate it.

We've had close calls from asteroids but we've never tried to catch one. But that soon could change. How NASA is trying to reel in one of these space rocks, straight ahead.


DR. LAURA STACHEL, CNN HERO (voice-over): There's a traditional African saying, when you become pregnant that you have one foot in the grave. There are so many women dying in child birth in many communities. Pregnancy is feared.

(on camera): In the last month recorded, four women actually died with pregnancy complications.

(voice-over): When I went to Africa, I saw these women, one after another, coming in with complications.

(on camera): And we didn't have adequate light to treat these women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome to the world, little one. And the lights just went out.

STACHEL (voice-over): A lot of the clinics don't have any electricity. Midwives use kerosene lanterns, they may use candles. They use their cell phones to deliver babies.

Once I witnessed the things that I saw, I had to do something about it.

My name is Dr. Laura Stachel. I'm helping to provide a simple and reliable solar lighting and power source so that mothers and babies can be safe during childbirth.


STACHEL: Hospitals and clinics receive the solar suitcase for free.

(on camera): So, the charge controller is very important.

(voice-over): The solar suitcase provides medical quality lighting. It charges cell phones. It has a small battery charger for headlamps and for the fetal Doppler that we include.

(on camera): Perfect. That's it.

(voice-over): Mothers are now eager to come to the clinics. It's shifted them around to the health care worker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This light is going to bring good changes. It keeps me going.

STACHEL (on camera): Turn this on. There you go. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

STACHEL: You're so welcome.

(voice-over): I really want a world where women and their families get to celebrate birth, and I would love to be part of making that happen.



LEMON: The biggest catch in the next few years might not happen on the baseball field. It could go down in space, or it could go up in space, however you want to say it. NASA has a plan to reel in an asteroid and put it into orbit around the moon.

Tom Foreman shows us how they plan to do it.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amid all this popular talk about the idea that an asteroid hitting the earth, NASA has a serious proposal: Why not go into space to try to capture one so we can learn more about asteroids.

And this is how they propose to do that. A very powerful rocket would take off from earth and it would launch what's called an asteroid redirect vehicle, which is essentially a robotic space craft which would shoot off into space driven by the most powerful solar electric propulsion system we've ever seen. Now, it wouldn't actually go beyond the stars. But this does give a sense that it would go many, many hundreds of thousands of miles off into space, looking for a very small target. Because the asteroids they are after would only about this big, as big as two or three big pick-up trucks, although this would weigh as much as two freight train engines. And it would be rotating slowly. It's a challenge because they have to stop it before they transport it.

Let me scale it down to size so you have a better idea of what we're talking about. Because as the redirect vehicle comes toward it, it will deploy a giant technical space bag. And over a period of hours, gradually ease it over the rotating asteroid and squeeze down on it to stop that rotation. Then the whole shebang will take off, flying back toward the earth, more importantly, toward the moon where it would go into a rotation around the moon about 40,000 miles above the lunar surface. This way, scientists could travel out there, astronauts, to visit this asteroid and conduct experiments on it.

Why we do this? It would cost billions and billions of dollars at a time the country doesn't have much money. Well, the scientific community says because it will give us very important knowledge about new deep-space technologies, propulsion systems, solar energy, all sorts of things that we use all the time on earth. Secondly, it would give us an idea of what to do if we had an asteroid coming toward earth. We've handled one. We'd have some idea how to handle another. And just as important, we would find out what sort of minerals and things are contained inside these asteroids, whether or not that's something we could mine for purposes on earth or perhaps to be used in future exploration further into space.

The bottom line, they say, yes, it is expensive, but it's called exploration because you never know what you might find.


LEMON: Sure don't.

Thank you, Tom. Appreciate it.

So as the budget crisis, debt deal, government shutdown, all this has been going on, you've heard the expression "kick the can" a lot. But how far can we kick the can? How far can we -- oh! Leave it to Richard Quest to get literal about it. He's going to try to answer that next as he kicks the can down the road, literally.


LEMON: You will soon be able to tour the White House again, but it's still a tough ticket to get. All public tours of the executive residence and West Wing were canceled back in March when the automatic budget cuts, known as sequestration, kicked in. The White House announced yesterday that the tours will start up again in early November on a limited schedule. Tickets for the public can take a long time to process and usually involves submitting a request through your representative in Congress. So get to it if you want to tour the White House.

There's a phrase that everyone is using in Washington these days. It's quick and it's easy and it sums up the feelings of people in both parties. Stop me if you've heard it before.


CRUZ: This deal kicks the can down the road.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: We are kicking the can, but better to kick the can than to stomp on the can.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: At the same time, we can't keep kicking the can down the road.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Instead of kicking the can down the road --

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: -- kick the can down the road.

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: -- kick the can down the road --

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: And the problem is, if we continue to kick it down the road --

UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: It's hard not to be cynical when we have seen the can kicked down the road so many times. REP. MARK SANFORD, (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: We will continue to kick this thing down the road with real harmful effects to the American populous.


LEMON: That's what we on this show call talking points and we hate them. We hate them. Everyone is saying the same thing. The agreement that reopens the government really does kick the can down the road, so to speak, in a few months.

It's part of a process that actually started a few months ago as our Richard Quest shows us now, literally.


RICHARD QUEST, HOST, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: The latest series of can kicking began in the summer of 2011. When Congress raised the debt ceiling, the U.S. lost its AAA and a super committee was formed to sort out the budget problems. The can was kicked.

In November of that year, the super committee failed to reach an agreement. Threw the decision back to Congress, so not surprisingly, kicked the can.

Fast forward and the fiscal cliff crisis is upon us. Congress still couldn't agree. Sequestration came in. And as for the deficit and debt ceiling -- down the road.

And so we come to the budget crisis of the past few days where the U.S. came as close to default as it ever wants to. The debt ceiling was finally raised. The U.S. government was reopened. But, of course, it was only done -- by kicking the can into next year.

So now there's another four months to try and reach a long-lasting agreement. All involved would do well to remember an important economic fact: There comes a time when there's no longer any road to kick the can down.

Richard Quest, CNN, New York.