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PIERS MORGAN LIVE

School Shooting Claims Life of 8th Grade Math Teacher; Interview with Jay Carney

Aired October 21, 2013 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is Piers Morgan Live, welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, breaking news, a deadly school shooting in Nevada.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: They have at least two down, one in the drop off area for the buses. Suspect is described as wearing khaki pants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: Police say a young students takes a hand gun from his parents and opens fire at his middle school, killing a math teacher and wounding two students before killing himself. Those developments, and I'll talk to a girl who knew the young gunman and saw it all.

CNN's Stephanie Elam joins me now (inaudible) the Big Story. Stephanie, another gruesome school shooting in America. Tell me the latest.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we have learned tonight, Piers, is that everything was over in just in three minutes. By the time that the police got on to campus, school hadn't even started yet but everything was done, and in that time, two students were shot, one in the abdomen, one in the shoulder. The other thing that happened that was the most devastating, there was a loss of a beloved math teacher, Mike Landsberry, who had served several tours, we are told, in Afghanistan, and came back to Nevada to teach 8th grade math and where he was very much loved in that job that he was doing there. Even had a website that he had for the students to engage with the students and help them. A little bit more that we're learning about this teacher tonight, Piers.

MORGAN: What do we know about the shooter? Do we know how old he was? Do we know how old the young victims were, outside of the math teacher?

ELAM: Yes. The shooter was 13, and what we believe happened -- and we're still trying to get these details together -- is that after he shot those three people, he then turned the gun on himself and took his own life. That is what we are hearing at this point.

The two individuals that were shot were 12 years old. One is still in serious condition at this point. We just heard from the hospital here. At this point, we also know that the school has shutdown for the rest of the week and that they are putting counseling into service for any student, any teacher, anybody who wants it because, remember, this happened on the playground of the campus before school even started on the middle school, at that.

MORGAN: And is there any clues, Stephanie, stage about motive or who the intended target was?

ELAM: They don't know just yet and if they do, they haven't told us. What they don't know is whether or not this student was targeting the other classmates or he was after this one math teacher. From what we heard from one eye witness, they said that the teacher went out to try to aid these students and said, "Stop," the shooter told him to back off and then at that point, he still shot him, as what we are hearing. So people are saying that this teacher was a hero in that but still not clear what the motive of the student was.

MORGAN: Stephanie Elam, thank you very much, indeed. With me now is Amaya Newton, a student at the school who witnessed the shooting. She'll be joining us with her mother Tabatha Newton. Welcome to both of you. Thank you both for joining me. Amaya, obviously a very difficulty day for you and everyone at the school. You witnessed what happened. Tell me what you saw.

AMAYA NEWTON, SHOOTING WITNESS: I saw -- after I got to where the court was, Mr. Landsberry had already been shot and everybody had just fled (ph) the court and I decided to run with them, lot of yelling and screaming, and crying. It was really tragic.

MORGAN: Without naming the boy who we believe did this, because we cannot do that at the stage, did you know him personally?

A. NEWTON: Yeah, I knew the person with the gun. He was really a nice kid. He would make you smile when you're having a bad day. If you were -- he just ask you if he could buy you something and, you know, he was just really a nice kid.

MORGAN: Why do you think he would possibly do this with a gun and shoot such a well liked teacher and indeed, some of his school colleagues?

A. NEWTON: I believe it was because I saw him getting bullied a couple of times and I think he took out his bullying on it.

MORGAN: Let me turn to your mother, Tabatha Newton. Obviously, as every parents' nightmares, Tabatha that your kid goes to school and gets caught up in a shooting like this and what is your take on what happened today and what do you know about the family and this boy who might have committed the shooting?

TABATHA NEWTON: Well, I know that he knows my daughter personally and she always said just wonderful things about him and that he was, you know, getting picked on pretty regular and that, you know, but he always had the smile, he was always, you know, just a very nice boy to everybody and so it's just, you know, I just find it difficult to get that he, you know, he got bullied but he didn't have anybody to talk to, that he didn't have anybody to go to in the school before he decided to do this, you know. It was -- it was just so tragic and it was -- it's devastating. It's devastating.

MORGAN: And Amaya, tell me about Mr. Landsberry, this teacher who was killed. We know that he was a war veteran, a war hero in many ways, tell me what you knew of him.

A. NEWTON: I know he was just a great teacher. He could make student laugh when they're having a bad day and always helps my fellow friends when she was having a bad day.

MORGAN: What do you feel, Tabatha, about the issue of guns in schools? Do you believe that teachers, that some people say, should be armed?

T. NEWTON: No, I mean, it's just sad that this happened at all guns at school, you know, junior high, just, you know, bullying, all of it. It just, to me -- I mean, nobody should have a gun at school and I don't know how we would stop that from them sneaking it in, I just -- you know, it's just -- it should start at home where people are teaching children not to bully, not to hate. Treat each other like they want to be treated just, you know, just -- we have to do something, I mean, this kid felt trapped and he did this and I'm not condoning it. I mean, you know, my heart goes out to all the families and all of the staff and all the children at Sparks Middle School.

MORGAN: And Amaya, tell me about the two boys who had been wounded. We believe that they're not critical anymore. They're going to be OK, but do you know them, and what do you think about what happened to them?

A. NEWTON: I did not know them but I did know that they were friends of the shooter and I believe that -- I'm just happy they're OK.

MORGAN: Well listen, this obviously been -- I just said, a very traumatic day for you Amaya and also for you Tabatha, for all the parents and all the families of all the other children, another grisly statistic, 'm afraid, in the long running saga of shootings at schools in America.

T. NEWTON: Yeah.

MORGAN: Thank you both for joining me. Joining me now on the phone is Mayor Geno Martini from Sparks in Nevada. Thank you for joining me Mr. Mayor and appalling incident here, 13 year old boy is believed to just open fire killing one of his teachers, wounding two of his colleagues. What is your reaction to this?

MAYOR GENO MARTINI, NEVADA: Well it's pretty sad, Piers. It's nothing that, you know, you ever think about happening to your town, you know, you see it on TV. It happens on other place that you never think it's been happened to you but having said that, I think, we were well prepared, everybody responded appropriately and back to the scene in less than three minutes. So I think our first responders did a heck of a job and did well but it's a sad day for the city of Spark, you know, we're a very close family in that community and things something like this happen to our kids and one of our teachers is very, very sad.

MORGAN: What do you think Mr. Mayor is the answer to this unrelenting tidal wave of gun violence in America?

MARTINI: You know, I don't know. We do everything we can possibly do and try to prevent these things but if someone's going to come, you know, I think it's like someone just said it. It starts at home. You know, we need to be more cognizant of what our kids are doing and what they're doing at school and what's going on, so we need better parenting as far as I can see, you know. There's too many people that are left to schools, do the parenting and this is the kind of things that maybe come and happen. So, it's very difficult to stop something like this. You know, we plan and do planning and train and all that stuff and then somebody get through the math (ph) but hard to prevent.

MORGAN: What can you tell me about Mike Landsberry, the teacher who appears to be extremely heroic here as you might expect from somebody who'd served his country in battlefields? Do you know much about him?

MARTINI: You know, I don't know much about Mike. I understand he was very well liked by the students as well as the teachers in the school district, then, you know, he was a brave man, obviously, to stand up in front of a kid like this and put his life on the line, you know, obviously, he's done this before.

He's in the air guard and in the National Guard and spent sometime, two terms, I think in Afghanistan and put his life on the line many, many times. But hard to believe he would go though something like that at Afghanistan then come home and be shot to death in the schoolyard that he was at, you know, very tough.

MORGAN: Particularly, by a 13 year old boy. An absolute tragedy. Mayor Martini, thank you very much, indeed, for joining me.

MARTINI: You're welcome. Thank you.

MORGAN: Coming next, the ObamaCare website meltdown but the president's personally touches a woman and (inaudible) during his remarks to the White House. He comes to her aid and she's now recovered enough to join me live. That's coming next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: Now to the President's ailing health plan and what seems like a metaphor for the entire rollout (inaudible) forms hundreds of thousands. There's this, the woman standing behind the President teetering.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The one illness -- I got you. No. No. You're OK. This happens when I talk too long. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: At the ultimate example of ObamaCare. I'll talk to her in a moment. First, President Obama though over defensive over his big and troubled ObamaCare website.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I am willing to work with anyone on any idea to make this law perform even better. But it's time for folks to stop rooting for its failure because hardworking middle class families are rooting for its success.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: Joining me now is White House Press Secretary Jay Carney. Jay, thanks for joining me. As suppose you have this question I would ask you about all this is what guarantees were given to the President that ObamaCare and its system were ready to go live and who gave them?

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, there's a lot of fascination obviously with pointing the finger of blame for the fact that the website associated with the Affordable Care Act has not been performing as effectively as it should be, and no one is more frustrated by that than the President as he said earlier today in the Rose Garden.

But the fact is this is a significant enterprise and the problems that we've seen were not anticipated. We knew there would be some glitches, we knew there would be some trouble but neither the president nor the senior team knew that we would see the kind of trouble that we've seen as far which is why the president has insisted on making sure that some of the best minds in the country when it comes to these kind of tax (ph) subjects are being applied to addressing these problems and making the consumer experience so much better.

MORGAN: I want to play a clip from -- first, Senator John McCain and he said to Ted Cruz their reaction for what has been going on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: It's been a fiasco to send Air Force One out to Silicon Valley, loaded up with some smart people, bring them back to Washington and then fix this problem. I mean, it's ridiculous and everybody know that.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: Absolutely, she should resign. Why? Because the program she has implemented ObamaCare is a disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: And let's take Senator Cruz's point first of all. Many people are calling for Secretary Sebelius to resign. Your (inaudible) to Mr. Gibbs has come and said the head should roll. At what point if this continue, say we're in I don't know six weeks time or two months time and you're having the same about of difficulty with the system, at what point do you consider a head rolling?

CARNEY: It shouldn't be about, you know, making -- having heads roll or firing people, Piers. I mean it is the Senators whose comments you broadcast earlier, you know, I think -- we know that there had been opponents of ObamaCare. I mean, republicans, Ted Cruz in particular not John McCain but Ted Cruz led a campaign to shut the government down over his opposition to ObamaCare.

And remember what that means, that's opposition to a plan and a program that will provide affordable health insurance to millions of Americans, private sector, health insurance through these marketplaces.

MORGAN: I agree with you ...

CARNEY: So ...

MORGAN: You don't have to persuade me.

CARNEY: But therefore is on ...

MORGAN: But my position though is it's very frustrating for your supporters like me and others. I agree with ObamaCare but I broadly agree with the ethos behind it. I come from a country where everybody gets free health care if they want it. So I totally subscribe to the ethos of what you're doing, but there's going to be a point, a limit has been there to the president's patience on his flagship program. The one that many believe maybe his great legacy and if the systems designed to facilitate it continues to fail, someone's going to be accountable. If it's not him who's it going to be?

CARNEY: Absolutely. Look, but the accountability he's looking for is the accountability of making sure that everybody who has expertise in this matter is focused on fixing it. Not, you know, focused on, you know, making heads roll. That's not the time right now to focus on that. The time is to get these problems fixed and make sure that the system is working most efficiently from the American people. That's what his focus is on right now not on, you know, pointing fingers of blame but making sure that it works.

It's clear as the president said today in the Rose Garden that no one's more frustrated than he is by the fact that the website hasn't been working as effectively as it should have. Part of that has been driven by the enormous volume, the enormous levels of interest that exceeded our expectations and that volume itself has caused problems with the website and the volume has exposed other problems.

And again, there's a tech search focusing on fixing that but I want to take issue with one point you made because, you know, this system it's not failing. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are submitting their applications successfully to get into the system and enroll in ObamaCare. And they're doing it through a variety of means, through state exchanges, through the federal exchanges, and through the calling center, and that's going to continue. And those are the people that matter, the people who are getting affordable health insurance for the first time. And, you know, you've seen the anecdotes, even people who have struggled with the website, when they get through and they get what they've been looking for, it's enormously meaningful to them because health insurance provides security that a lot of these families haven't had in the past.

MORGAN: The president said today that the sites been visited by nearly 20 million Americans, more than 500,000 have apparently submitted applications. In terms of the other obvious question which is the penalty that comes from the end of March, you have to subscribe by then or get a penalty, have you considered delaying that and at what point would you consider delaying that if the answer is no at the moment?

CARNEY: Well, first of all, it's important to know, Piers, that we're three weeks into a six month process so this is still very early days. And as with the case in Massachusetts when they had a similar program at a state level and as was the case with federal programs like the children's health insurance program or the Medicare Part D Program, you know, in these early stages, people spend a lot of time shopping, most of the enrollment comes later as the deadlines near. So we fully expect to have all of our systems operating more efficiently as we approach those deadlines.

Secondly, as the law is written, if you can't afford or you cannot find affordable health insurance. For example, if you're a resident of a state with a governor decline to expand the Medicaid and that's a number of states mostly with the Republican Governors who decline to expand Medicaid and therefore you cannot get the affordable health insurance that you otherwise would have been able to get. You're not going to pay a penalty for that.

So that's already built in, those protections are built into the law as written. Right now, we're focused on making the system work because the product here is not a website, the product is affordable health insurance for Americans who haven't had it in the past.

MORGAN: With the administration who have a reputation for being bordering on geeky when it comes to all things tech., this must be particularly irritating. I actually quite like Senator McCain's idea of getting Air Force One straight to Silicon Valley, picking up maybe 300 geniuses, bringing them back to wherever they need to come to fix this and get it sorted. He tempted to do that?

CARNEY: Well, I don't think Senator McCain is far off in what we're talking about here in front of the tax surge. It doesn't mean sending a military jet to pick up the experts in Silicon Valley but there are a number of experts from the private sector who are working around the clock on this, as well as experts from within government who are working around the clock on this, and we take the point. We need the best brains in the business applied to helping makes this experience better and helping to make the changes to the website that are necessary to deal with the volume and to deal with the glitches that consumers have encountered.

MORGAN: Jay Carney. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. CARNEY: Thank you Piers.

MORGAN: While President Obama was defending ObamaCare, the attention from the other woman directly behind him. Her name is Karmel Allison, and it appears, she's in the verge of fainting. Karmel has recovered and she's here with me now. Karmel, how are you?

KARMEL ALLISON: I'm doing fine. Thank you.

MORGAN: The whole world is watching in absolute horror as you -- something like you tethered backwards. What was going through your mind?

ALLISON: Mostly, "Oh no, don't faint." and then the next thing I knew I was being caught by the president and thinking, "Wow, that just happened." So, you know, it was an incredible honor to be there and I'm really happy to have been there today to support the president as he, you know, takes a stand and reinforces the importance of this -- the ACA and the act and how important healthcare is for all of us. And I'm extremely embarrassed that I fainted but honored still to have been there and happy that he caught me.

MORGAN: Well, there is also a happy reason that you maybe (inaudible) faint. You are 20 weeks pregnant, I gathered.

ALLISON: That's right. Yeah.

MORGAN: Congratulations on that.

ALLISON: Thank you.

MORGAN: You see yourself as a great example of ObamaCare at its finest as the president himself led back to save you?

ALLISON: It's a funny metaphor I suppose. I think that, you know, as the president was saying today, ObamaCare at its finest is, you know, my experience earlier, you know, the reason I was there, I wrote a blog post about the fact that I'm a Type 1 diabetic since I was nine and since that time, I've been lucky enough to be covered because I was covered before I was diagnosed but have never been able to switch coverage and have always lived with the fear that, you know what, if something happened, if I want to move out off California, if I want to, you know, if I needed a job that was somewhere else, that might not be possible because it's too expensive or I won't be able to get coverage if I leave my current coverage but ...

MORGAN: And what did he say to you after with the president (inaudible)?

ALLISON: He was, you know, he asked how I was doing, make sure I was OK and, I mean, I was extremely appreciative of that.

MORGAN: Well, I'm glad you joined me Karmel. It was dramatic moment and fortunate everything is fine and I wish you all the very best with your baby.

ALLISON: Thank you very much.

MORGAN: So, if you have question or comment on tonight's show, send your twits to me @piersmorgan using the hash tag pml. I'm going to give away copy of free signed copy on my new book "Shooting Straight: Guns, Gays, God, and George Clooney" to the viewer who sends me the best, it could be the most amusing, fascinating, or even the one that embraces me the most. So, get twitting.

Coming next, more on ObamaCare's rocky rollout and GOP inside (ph) gets ugly in the wake of the shutdown. Republican leaders target Texas'(inaudible) Ted Cruz, (inaudible) party survived (ph)? I can't tell it's just Boehner survived. My All Stars battle it out after the break. Welcome All Stars.

PENN JILLETTE: Yes.

AMY HOLMES: Welcome.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: The house acted stood strong and said, "Let's fund government but don't fund ObamaCare." And beyond that collectively, we have elevated in the national debate, the disaster, the train wreck, the nightmare that is ObamaCare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: Senator Ted Cruz tonight keeping out his fight to end ObamaCare means our (ph) republican leaders (inaudible) Cruz is out of control but not a Tea Party upstart expects it (inaudible) muscles can he be helped out (ph). Well, joining me now is Penn Jillette, a writer and director and author in the new movie Director's Cut and author of "Everyday Is An Atheist Holiday. Amy Holmes, anchor of GBTV's "Real News in the Blaze" and CNN Political Commentator, Marc Lamont Hill, host of HuffPost Live. Now, so we got time for our (inaudible). OK, let's get started on this, Penn Jillette.

PENN JILLETTE, AUTHOR, EVERY DAY IS AN ATHEIST HOLIDAY: Yes.

MORGAN: (Inaudible), one, the calamity of the out rolling of ObamaCare, secondly, Ted Cruz.

JILLETTE: Well, you know, I think that you need to separate very clearly the philosophical idea of whether the government should be in the healthcare business which I think is something we've had the discussion on and the side that I kind of agree with that is not the government's job lost. It is the government's job, we've decided that. And then the fact that it's -- they're making a lot of mistakes and things are screwing up doesn't seem like that bigger deal to me. It seems every huge thing you roll out is going to have the stakes (ph).

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Exactly.

AMY HOLMES, ANCHOR, GBTV's "REAL NEWS FROM THE BLAZE": Oh, I'm sure you love that point of view Marc.

MORGAN: It's true.

HOLMES: But to get back to you ...

MORGAN: Isn't it that true though Amy?

HOLMES: No, I mean think conservative and libertarians would say, if something is this deeply flawed like at Apple product or a flat screen TV or Amazon.com, you don't have to buy it. But if you are uninsured, you have to buy this health insurance and there are deadlines and you could be fine even when the government is going through those deadlines. But to get back to your question about Ted Cruz, I think it's a shame that republicans when off on this very losing crusade with the shutdown because it actually obscured into contention off of the fiasco that is the ObamaCare plan (ph).

MORGAN: But Marc Lamont Hill, has he (ph) really lost Ted Cruz because it's exactly what I thought would happen. A shutdown is over, that ceiling cross has been pushed down the road till early next year. Meanwhile, outcomes Cruz louder than ever having seized everybody's attention now seizing on the one real vulnerability which is ObamaCare, maybe great in principle. But if the system isn't working, he can't exploit as a catastrophe.

HILL: Yeah. But the problem is that he spent so much time creating smoke screens for the last two months that people don't want to hear him anymore. He's such a divisive figure that he has less authority. Imagine if he said nothing for the last six week, which is very little, we would have put spotlight on the bungling (ph) of Syria, we put a spotlight on how does that isn't rolling out. We're seeing so many Obama mistakes over the last two months.

MORGAN: Except the ...

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: ... we are all talking about ObamaCare and Cruz is still (inaudible) on this. I'm struggling to see how he personally has lost (inaudible).

HOLMES: Well, you've seen the Republican Party totally divided. Mitch McConnell the senate minority leader saying there will not be another government shutdown. You have big donors, big funder saying we don't want to see this types of tactics anymore. I think republicans did lose in all of this.

MORGAN: OK. Is it a war the Republican Party has to have (inaudible)? Did a civil war after which will come a more cohesive united Republican Party which actually in the end may have a better chance to win the election?

JILLETTE: We've got to get this out of sports. We've got to get this out of us and them and all this, "Who can win and who can do best." There are philosophical issues. There are differences that need to be discussed. The idea of even discussing from that cynical point of view of whether this helps or hurts the Republican Party is really something that a very small number of cynical people should think about.

(CROSSTALK)

JILLETTE: ... philosophically about what's right and what's wrong.

MORGAN: I mean I don't disagree with that except the political reality is a very small number of people in Washington run the country. And they are at each other throats, Democrats to Republicans, but most significantly right now, Republican to Republican.

(CROSSTALK)

LAMONT HILL: That's also (inaudible) why Ted Cruz isn't winning because if he ...

MORGAN: But do you see him not winning? I mean could he not ...

(CROSSTALK)

And then you ultimately not prevail.

LAMONT HILL: He can't prevail when he has half the party, not just half the party, but power brokers who aren't on his side. But there's something here that we seem to have conceded at ...

MORGAN: Only the power brokers. So he's viewed as the old God. He's ...

(CROSSTALK)

Amy, is Ted Cruz potentially the new God? He's dynamic. He's charismatic. We know (inaudible). And (inaudible) turned to be one of the best students you ever had. Could he not in the end win this civil war in his own policy (ph)?

HOLMES: I agree with all of that. And even more importantly, he's a follow Princetonian. I just want to put that on the table.

MORGAN: I would've held that against you.

HOLMES: Anybody who wants to be an heir to the Ronald Reagan legacy also needs to follow Ronald Reagan's 11th commandment. And that is, "Thou shall not speak ill of a fellow republican."

And if you want to go battle with the other side, you need to go to (inaudible).

LAMONT HILL: Reagan only said that when he was winning, he was attacking forward.

HOLMES: And he did win.

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: Let me turn to Secretary Sebelius, right, because any normal business, if the person where the buck is supposed to stop, and you have to say in her case it is her on ObamaCare. It's her job to make sure that they would.

If you insist (ph) bigger disasters, it appears to be, shouldn't she be resigning (inaudible)?

JILLETTE: I don't think we have all the information. It certainly seems that way. But I mean people have to be closer to what must have. Must have a better idea, I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Are you serious?

HOLMES: She was in-charge of this website. We talked about it in the make-up room. I was saying (inaudible) on TV to wear make-up. I was suggesting that ...

(CROSSTALK)

But I was suggesting, "Look, how would you like it if you're a CEO and you're getting all these fake memos about we're ready for the roll out and you're not and your name is on it?" You have a book that's out, I believe called (inaudible) and George Clooney ...

MORGAN: Yeah.

HOLMES: ... would you put with your publisher and your publicist and screw it up as badly? Of course not.

MORGAN: No. I actually think ...

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: She's not the web master. She is the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

MORGAN: It's her responsibility that Obamacare could start in an effective way.

(CROSSTALK)

And I speak to somebody that I support the basic (inaudible) of Obamacare.

HILL: Yes.

MORGAN: I came from Britain where everyone gets health care. I get what ...

(CROSSTALK)

To a place where 11 million more people that I'm going to ... JILLETTE: Yes.

MORGAN: ... will be put on to health care.

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: ... on a system that is so chaotic.

HILL: But that's not the entire system. First of all, we can't reduce the Affordable Care Act to the website, OK?

MORGAN: Why?

HOLMES: Why, I though you love it?

HILL: Because -- no, that's not the only prevision. The Affordable Care Act is about provisions. It's about protections. Millions of people now ...

HOLMES: It is also about signing up young healthy people to (inaudible). And if these people ...

HILL: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

Well this is what's frustrating for me, is that Republican and conservatives are acting in complete bad faith on this. And the Congressional Budget Office from the beginning said that needs about $5 billion to effectively rollout.

(CROSSTALK)

JILLETTE: You can fix a website. It doesn't matter if you want to show off and fire someone to have someone's -- have roles, to give them fuel power. This will work eventually. It's not an impossible thing. It's easier than ...

MORGAN: At what point do we say a head must roll if it doesn't work?

JILLETTE: I mean that's just ...

HOLMES: I'm not even talking about ...

(CROSSTALK)

If you want Obamacare to work, you want an effective manager, you want effective I.T. team, have an effective website. So in the interest of Obamacare, I would think that you would want Kathleen Sebelius to go.

LAMONT HILL: No. This is stunning me. The Republicans have spent the last three years resisting than properly funding it. They've resisted expanse of Medicare and ...

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: And then when the thing doesn't work, they say, "Look how bad this thing functions."

HOLMES: The website got over $600 million to be able to be set up.

MORGAN: OK. Listen, (inaudible).

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: (inaudible) Obamacare and I don't trust the system will get it for me in time. We are going to have to leave it there.

Coming next, Deborah Norville and the Chair heroes, scoundrels of (inaudible), that's not the panel I've just had. (Inaudible) old times. Some of the stories even she couldn't believe when we come back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH NORVILLE, ANCHOR OF INSIDE EDITION: (Inaudible).

MORGAN: It could be either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL RBEAK)

MORGAN: 25 years, Inside Edition has been covering news in the series of (inaudible) four million viewers a night. And in the chair, Deborah Norville, anchor of Inside Edition and author of The Way We Are: Heroes, Scoundrels, and Oddballs, From Twenty Five Years of Inside Edition. Welcome to you, Deborah.

NORVILLE: Thank you very much.

MORGAN: Take us to the right way, please, my guilty pleasure.

NORVILLE: I loved that. And you know what? That's what we want to be. We want to be everybody's guilt to pressure. We want to tell you a little something that's going to make you smile, a little something that might make you think, and maybe a little something that just takes you off.

MORGAN: Who's been your favorite scoundrel?

NORVILLE: Oh, God. The scoundrel list is long. I mean you've sort of got to love their ...

MORGAN: I mean Tonya Harding, Michael Jackson ...

NORVILLE: Yeah. I mean Tonya Harding ...

MORGAN: ... O.J. Simpson. NORVILLE: ... she sort of put us on the map. We loved Tonya Harding. That was before I joined the show. But she gave us exclusive access when she was at the Olympics after the clubbing of Nancy Kerrigan had happen.

And who would've thought that that one incident when she was in the Olympics would began all of these stories that continued for many years to come. O.J. Simpson is another favorite. How many people can say a guy who got off in the opinion of many from murder then try to kill your camera crew?

There's this infamous shot of O.J. Simpson. We met him on the golf course and he's got his golf club ...

MORGAN: I remember, yes.

NORVILLE: ... up raised and front cover one of the papers in New York and he's -- and you just imagine if indeed he did kill but many believe.

MORGAN: My favorite -- well, my favorite moment -- because he had amazing character.

NORVILLE: Which is?

MORGAN: I mean when you done the show 18 years, it was even incredible.

NORVILLE: Yeah.

MORGAN: But David Frost was an anchor early on. Bill O'Reilly ...

NORVILLE: Yes.

MORGAN: ... was an anchor early on not for a very long. Although my favorite clip ever from Inside Edition is Bill O'Reilly talking in a very warm and generous way to his producer in a way I've always wanted to demand (ph). Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, INSIDE EDITION ANCHOR: That is a ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, five, four, three ...

O'REILLY: That's tomorrow and that is it for us today. And we will leave you with a -- I can't do it.

NORVILLE: Let me just say, Bill, because ...

O'REILLY: We'll do it live.

NORVILLE: ... this was obviously never seen on ...

O'REILLY: Let's do it live. MORGAN: This is too funny.

O'REILLY: This (inaudible) thing sucks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NORVILLE: This was never on television.

MORGAN: You see, I feel exactly the same way about taping things. Let's do it live.

NORVILLE: Right

MORGAN: God damn it.

NORVILLE: But you can't say that on TV. Can you say that on TV?

MORGAN: Do it live?

NORVILLE: No, the other part that you just said. Don't say it again in case you can. The way Inside Edition was done before I came, they would do the on camera part separately from putting the packages in. And there was some sort of production snap through that day and it was getting up against the wire and they were going to have to do it live.

I guess that wasn't something they did. I hated to do it that way. And I said, let's do it. Let's do it all in one take. Let's do it live. It wasn't till I said, "You'll save two hours of built-in overtime in your budget if we do it live." We started doing it live everyday after that.

MORGAN: Well, that was my favorite moment. And what's been your favorite moment?

NORVILLE: Oh God. There's so many. I mean my time span has 18 years to show ...

MORGAN: What's the moment you relive again personally?

NORVILLE: I don't know that I relive it again but it certainly struck me. When I was interviewing Paula Jones who was we all remember had ...

MORGAN: Yes.

NORVILLE: ... instituted the sexual harassment lawsuit against then President, Bill Clinton. And I was talking with her, and to be successful in an action, you have to prove you were adversely impacted, and this is how she reacted.

I said, "So you stood him up?" And she blew up, and she said, "That was so rude." And she started to march away and I'm thinking, "Don't march away because I'm not finish with the interview." I realized later, as we were speaking, she was negotiating the settlement with President Clinton. MORGAN: Right.

NORVILLE: She got $850,000 from the President and that was all being negotiated. I suspect the stress of that was what left out and attacked me in that interview but it was great TV. We love great TV moments.

MORGAN: It certainly was. And you also had an extraordinary moment in television which was a real live horror and we've had another shooting today. It was the mass shooting at Fort Hood where you just happened to be there and you went and report on it for the whole show. Let's take a look at some of your coverage in that.

NORVILLE: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORVILLE: As we broadcast today from the Fort Hood Military Base in Texas, this is the scene of the worst loss of life at an American military facility in many, many years. And we're learning more about the army psychiatrist accused of gunning down 13 people and wounding 30 others.

We can tell you that he has been left paralyzed. He's currently on a ventilator from the gun shot that were fired at him to stop his murderous rampage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NORVILLE: How many times we've pulled that story? And yet again today, a young boy who ...

MORGAN: Why is it, Deborah?

NORVILLE: ... have no access.

MORGAN: Why is it that nothing ever changes in America after all these gun outrages?

NORVILLE: I don't know that you can say that nothing ever changes. I mean, you know, CNN has been incredibly aggressive in reporting the shooting in Nevada today and it appears that this boy got access to a gun that his family possessed.

And as someone who comes from the South where all of my family members possess guns, we have guns in our home, our guns are locked up. Our guns are absolutely not accessible.

It is my second amendment right. It is all American second amendment right to possess a gun. But with that right comes the responsibility of making sure that that weapon is securely put away from certainly a 13-year-old boy.

And if you have ammunition, you keep it in a second location, not even in the same premises. We have guns. We have no ammo. You go somewhere else if you need a bullet. MORGAN: Deborah, it's a fascinating book. And I was looking through it earlier. There's just so many great stories in there. If like me you view Inside Edition as a very guilty pleasure -- as you know, you can act guilty, little ones like that ...

NORVILLE: It's fun.

MORGAN: ... it's a terrific ramp ...

NORVILLE: Thank you.

MORGAN: ... for some of the best news stories and outrages and scoundrels and scalawags in the last 25 years.

Congratulations on your part of that amazing career -- long may continue. The Way We Are: Heroes, Scoundrels and Oddballs From 25 Years of Inside Edition is available tomorrow, and Inside Edition is of course daily. Check your local listings. Deborah, lovely to see you.

NORVILLE: Thank you so much, Piers.

MORGAN: Coming next from prison pen-pals to new parents, former Louisiana Governor, Edwin Edwards and his newly minted third wife on live in debate. Your wife's steamy doesn't even begin to describe it reminding vocals.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWIN EDWARDS, FORMER GOVERNOR LOUSIANA: You know, my favorite saying is you're only as young as the woman you feel. And brother, it's fun feeling her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: Former Louisiana Governor, Edwin Edwards, on the charms of his third wife, Trina, in the A&E (inaudible) Series, "The Governor's Wife". The show follows an 86-year-old ex-con, his much younger bride, as they kind of put these pretty good troubles behind them, and if I mention, the new baby. Governor Edwards and his wife, Trina, is joining me now. Welcome to you both.

TRINA EDWARDS, WIFE OF EWDIN EDWARDS: Thank you.

E. EDWARDS: Good evening.

MORGAN: (inaudible) I'm trying to get my head around this. You're 86, Trina, you're 35. What did you see in him? Let's start that way around.

T. EDWARDS: Well, the first -- before I met him actually I was in college and I was reading his book and when I would go places, if I was at lunch or whatever, I would just flip through and read a couple of pages and people would come up and tell me all these great and wonderful stories about him.

And so, I decided that I really had to see for myself. And we began writing. And the first time I met him, I went to visit him in prison. And when he came in, he was just this larger than life -- everybody loved him. The second he walked on the door -- just something draws you to him.

MORGAN: I mean you are -- could have make -- you're in good nick for 86, don't you?

E. EDWARDS: Sorry, excuse me.

MORGAN: You're in good nick. You are in good shape.

E. EDWARDS: Well, yes. I am very fortunate. I haven't had 50 headaches in my life. I didn't have stomach problems, back problems, sleep well, eat well, and enjoy my life.

MORGAN: Well, I bet you do. Yes. Now, let's turn to Trina because she is I think I want to say nearly half the age of your daughters. Does that give you any qualms at all, Edward?

E. EDWARD: It makes me feel very fortunate and I just think that, well, it's difficult for people to understand, and I know that certainly, if it's not unique, it's certainly very unusual, but we're happy. And I think that what's important.

MORGAN: This video clip from the new shows, where your daughter, Victoria, finds out that you're having a baby (inaudible).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I already know the news. We're here to break it to you.

T. EDWARDS: I really feel that it's important for us to tell you that your dad and I are planning on having a baby.

VICTORIA EDWARDS, DAUGHTER OF EDWIN EDWARDS: Excuse me?

E.EDWARDS: She's not going to have a baby. We're planning on having a baby.

T. EDWARDS: It's very important to me that I have your father's child.

V. EDWARDS: Oh, you want his legacy? You have everything else. How can you justify this? Why would you do that to a child?

T. EDWARDS: OK. I'm feeling a little bit attacked right now. And so, I'm going to ...

V. EDWARDS: Sit down.

T. EDWARDS: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: So that obviously went down well.

And pretty most of your technical question, which is silly, I don't mean to be impertinent, but how have you managed to have a baby at 86?

E. EDWARDS: Some time ago, when I had a reverse vasectomy, the doctor without my knowledge stored some sperm and when I got out of prison I was made aware of it and ...

T. EDWARDS: We got to bill.

E. EDWARDS: We got a bill from the hospital.

MORGAN: And what was it?

E. EDWARDS: $750,000. And so, I then realized what it was and I learned that they can store that stuff indefinitely.

So, we retrieved it, brought it to Baton Rouge, got a wonderful doctor and -- who did the in vitro and it worked out.

MORGAN: And your son, Eli, arrived in August.

T. EDWARDS: He did.

MORGAN: So the people have accused you, Trina, of being a gold digger. But actually, he hasn't got money or gold, isn't that right?

T. EDWARDS: No, he doesn't.

MORGAN: Do you have any guilt?

T. EDWARDS: A little bit, but not a whole lot, not enough to be classified as a gold digger.

MORGAN: Right. What would you say ...

T. EDWARDS: When I do something, I do it well. And if I was a gold digger, I would have done better.

MORGAN: Well, it's a fastening combination. I mean I -- as much (inaudible), I mean do you think this is for life or you think you may have more young wives as we go on?

T. EDWARDS: I'm the last one. I'll answer that for you.

MORGAN: Yeah? How can you be such sure of that?

T. EDWARDS: It's in here. Because after me, there is nothing better. I mean he's got as good as he's going to get.

MORGAN: Well, we can see you're dating one of the women (inaudible), Governor, (inaudible) terms of Washington after the break. We'll get your views on the current state of what is going on in D.C.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson Cooper and this is CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: I'm back now with former Louisiana Governor, Edwin Edwards and his wife, Trina Edwards.

Governor, just let me know about your views and what's going on in Washington, you're the next congressman. Is it as bad as you've ever known it, the poison and the ranks there?

E. EDWARDS: I'm a life long Democrat and hardly in the position to critique the Republican Party.

But I find most Republicans that I know of hardworking. These people interested in the public good.

My opinion is that the Republican Party has been taken over by a very small monarchy of extreme right-wing people. And I think that's what the problem is.

When I was in Congress, we work well together. We got things done. But this impact (ph) that continually happens in Washington is in tolerable, not in our country's interest, and it should be stopped.

MORGAN: Trina, do you find the one question that everybody wants to ask you both is, "Wow, you're a Republican, he's a Democrat?"

T. EDWARDS: We've gotten on it a couple of times. But actually, we're both very modern in our views that we agree on just about everything.

MORGAN: You're a bipartisan relationship.

T. EDWARDS: We are.

E. EDWARDS: I finally found a good use for Republicans, you sleep with them

MORGAN: Do you change diapers, Edwin?

E. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.

MORGAN: Are you good at it?

EDWARDS: Absolutely.

MORGAN: Really? And then he lies out there, no (inaudible) isn't it, you wouldn't.

E. EDWARDS: I think he cries every time I come in the room to get me to change him.

MORGAN: He probably doesn't say much anyway, right, so ...

E. EDWARDS: Well, no. But in about two or three months, he will change his own diapers. I won't have that problem.

MORGAN: Do you recommend having an 86-year-old boy toy?

T. EDWARDS: Of course, I do.

MORGAN: Really?

T. EDWARDS: Well, if it works for you, I mean I'm happy with it. I guess it's just your preference.

MORGAN: Well, it's a fascinating, I suppose, union, is well I'll best describe it. This show is called the Governor's Wife. It premiers on A&E Sunday at 10 PM. Good luck to both of you.

E. EDWARDS: Thank you very much.

T. EDWARDS: Thank you.

E. EDWARDS: We appreciate it.

MORGAN: You made us all feel young at heart today, Edwin. I must say it.

Not on my new book give away for the best treat of the night, (inaudible) with them all. And we found (inaudible) tonight. Let's talk with Yankee Goddess, I think her real name is Diana Samuel. She twitted, "Thank you, Piers, for acting like a true American. Love you".

And then, Incident Commander, otherwise known as Frank Gomez who twitted, "I can't understand your accent on Piers Morgan Live, send me your book so I can read what you have to say." Of course I will.

The both of you will now receive my book " Shooting Straight: Guns, Gays, God and George Clooney" while another competition tomorrow night. You could amuse, titillate, fascinate, or abuse me, whatever you like. It's available tomorrow night. I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks to both of you for coming in tonight, Edwin and Trina Edwards. And good luck with little Eli. (inaudible) for free copy of my book as well. You got one?

T. EDWARDS: Thank you. Yes.

MORGAN: "Shooting Straight", seems appropriate with you, Edwin.

E. EDWARDS: Very nice of you.

MORGAN: My pleasure.

That's all for us tonight. AC360 Later starts right now.