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Teacher Shot by Student; Cee Lo Green Pleads Not Guilty; Woman Falls onto Tracks; Arrests Made in Football Beat-Down
Aired October 22, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a 12-year-old with a semi automatic weapon opens fire on his middle school. We`ll look at this young boy`s motive.
Plus, the star at a center of a scandal cleared of all sexual assault charges, but is he guilty of having drugged his date. Our behavior bureau looks at this case. Let`s get started.
Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.
And coming up, we have breaking news in the football fight beat down we showed you last night. Arrests have now been made. But before we talk about that, a 12 year old brings a semi-automatic handgun to his middle school, opens fire, kills a teacher, wounds two of his classmates and then he kills himself. We are trying to figure out why or how this kind of thing can happens. We have the 911 calls from terrified students. You will hear them in just a second.
But first, I want you to watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Active shooter, sparks middle school. The teacher down in the playground. They have one victim in the cafeteria, one in the hall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A male student came to the school with a semi-automatic handgun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kid started getting mad. And he pulled out a gun and shoots my friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot a student in the shoulder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Landsberry calmly walked toward the shooter. Put his hands up in a motion to try to stop the individual`s actions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect shot the teacher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teacher was trying to make him put it down, but he took the shot right then and there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot a second student in the abdomen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People started running and screaming. So I started running and then we heard another gunshot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then shot himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Lynn Berry, HLN host, Dean Obeidallah, a CNN.com and "Daily Beast" contributor, Areva Martin, attorney and Danny Cevallos, attorney an CNN legal analyst. Joining us first by phone, Stephanie Elam. She is a CNN correspondent.
Stephanie, bring us up to date.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): What we`ve learned today, Dr. Drew, is that this shooter, in the way things went down in that three minute period from when police got the first call to when they arrived on scene, everything was done. He shot the first student, hitting them in the shoulder, then encountered the teacher that so many people are giving so much credit to for saving many other casualties because he did confront that student and also gave the school time to lockdown and make sure the shooter did not get in the school. We learned today that he did try to get into the school as well.
Also learning that the parents of the 12-year-old, they have been given some police protection because they`re worried about some sort of retaliation here. They are, also, fully cooperating with police. And they could face charges if it`s found that he somehow got this gun from the residence because of some negligence on their part.
So we`re still learning through the story here, but learning much more about that teacher who was so beloved in this community with also coaching just a very, very tragic story that they are trying to dealing with here, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, Stephanie.
We`re hearing from other students that the shooter may have been picked on at school. Take a look at this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw him getting bullied a couple of times. And I think he took out his bullying on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was, you know, getting picked on pretty regular.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what everybody`s telling me, too, that he was bullied. And that`s what I`m guessing also because he was yelling a bunch of things while we were running.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: What was he yelling?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was yelling stuff like why are you laughing at me? Why are you doing this to me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Dean, let`s have a reaction from you first.
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, POLITICAL COMEDIAN: I mean, we just heard about Rebecca said who killed herself last week. He was 12-years-old, just week. And we talked about more of the consequences this week.
What is going on with 12-year-old or young kids at schools where we are not seeing the signs. When I say we, I mean the parents, the school administration. One more education can there be given. The school administrators, the parent, to look for warning signs. Or are these kids somehow being able to live a double life where no one --
PINSKY: Dean, listen. People know, first of all we have to educate parents. Sam, don`t you agree to know what this is. But secondly, don`t go it alone, if you have an illness. If you have a child that`s ill, admit it and get help.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right. Dr. Drew, guns aside, I think, you know, all these shootings that are taking place, it`s a symptom of what these kids are going through. Obviously, these shooters, this shooter, isn`t mentally well, and we hear that maybe he was bullied. So what kind of solutions can we implement to stop this?
PINSKY: Just keep handguns in our home, automatic handguns. I think that`s the way to go.
SCHACHER: Of course. But also there needs to be more readily available mental health treatment. There need to be zero tolerance of bullying.
PINSKY: Well, interesting.
But Danny, I think you`d agree that having access to a semi-automatic gun says something about the parents.
DANNY CEVALLOS, ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t know about these particular parents, but you`re right. I mean, there`s a modern trend, the modern phenomenon to start for states to start holding parents criminally, not just civilly, but criminally liable for the acts of their kids.
And, you know, as long as we`re focusing on things like self-esteem and car seats, this certainly seems to make a lot more sense. Because I can tell you, as a criminal defense attorney, far and away, almost every criminal defendant sitting up in Shaw (ph) shank comes from either absent parents or terrible parents.
The question becomes and one of administration. How do you do you go after the parents? Do you punish the single mom who has at least shouldered the burden of three kids or do you try to get jurisdiction over dad who`s moved to Florida and now is living with a cocktail waitress? They pretend the problem of administration.
PINSKY: I agree with you.
CEVALLOS: Then you have a jurisdictional problem.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Well, I think undeniably, Dr. Drew, we`re going to have to hold parents responsible. And as difficult as it is in this case because these parents have lost their child. He also killed himself. Buff prosecutors are going to have to man up on this. And we have to deter parents in having guns in their homes loaded, that kids can access. Something went terribly wrong that a 7th grader could come to school with a loaded semi-automatic gun. We have to hold someone accountable. And I think we must start with the parents.
PINSKY: The teacher that was killed was a 45-year-old math teacher, a former marine as we were hearing from Stephanie. His name is Michael Landsberry. There he is. He is being called a hero for attempting to talk down the shooter.
Lynn, do we know anything else about this guy?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Yes. You know, family and friends, that`s what is so huge here. They`re not surprised at all that he would put his life on the line. This is an American hero. He served his country in Iraq, Iran, Kuwait and Afghanistan. And in this instance, he served his country by protecting these kids at a Nevada school.
Sadly, that`s the fate of our society right now. He stood in front of a shooter, tried to talk him down. And that gave some of the other kids a chance to escape. They started a facebook page in his memorial. And 10,000 people instantly liked it. I mean, this is the guy that needs a recognition and deserves a recognition for what he did that cause him his life.
PINSKY: Dean, you seem to be having a reaction there. Go ahead, Dean.
OBEIDALLAH: I do. I mean, look at the world we live in. And Lynn, you bring that up. The world has changed. Sandy hook, Vicky Sotto, the teacher. Everyone know gave her life protecting her students. This man gave his life protecting his students. These are supposed to be teachers educating our students, not putting their lives on the line. To be a teacher, they are not policeman or fireman. That`s the world we live in. And thankfully Nevada is one of the 27 states that has to show access prevention laws which do hold parents as criminally responsible if they could to the gun. And in this case, it is reckless or no one really gets the gun.
We have to have a uniform national standard on that where every state has that. That parents are the ones that have to protect the guns from getting in the hands of their children. We can`t be at home. School administrators can`t be at home. It has to be a uniform 50-state federal law on this.
PINSKY: I`m having a good emotional reaction to this because I`m so sick of reporting these stories of what is essentially mass killings by young people of young people that could clearly have been prevented if safeguards were in place. Let`s put at that, right? It is the simplest react we stand.
Next, we have more on the story, the behavior bureau rings in.
Later, the star of one of TV -- reality TV`s most popular shows busted on a drug charge. But I`m telling you, this one does not add up for me. We will talk about after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911 emergency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody brought a gun to school that shot a teacher.
911 OPERATOR: The teacher`s down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. We`ll get somebody out there right away. You are at Sparks Middle School?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. They shot again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A student from Sparks`s middle school. Can you please send police out here? There`s a kid with a gun.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Where are they with the gun?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Huh?
911 OPERATOR: Where are they with the gun?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sparks middle school.
911 OPERATOR: I know, but where at the school. That`s what I`m saying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the basketball court.
911 OPERATOR: By the basketball court?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Please send someone now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, I don`t know about you. But I get emotional hearing that tape. I mean, it`s a --
PINSKY: These are kids. They are not supposed to be dealing with this garbage.
Let me share a tweet that someone sent us. It is from Jim -- I`m sorry, I can`t pronounce your name. Parents responsible. No gun loaded for them to use. She should get time even though she lost her child, responsibility by all.
I think that is a sort of a general sense amongst our viewers that somebody needs to be held accountable, at least to deter this sort of thing. And of course, we`re talking about a 12-year-old who shot and killed a teacher, wounded two classmates and then committed suicide.
We`re bringing in the behavior bureau to talk about this. Team suicide, team depression is no mystery to those on this panel. Cheryl Arutt, clinical psychologist, Jennifer Keitt, life coach and radio talk show host, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "30-day love detox" and making his first appearance on the behavior bureau, this is something I want do for quite some time and Jamie Kennedy, comedian-actor, thank you for being our sort of -- not our guinea pig but our first lamb to the slaughter, Jamie. That`s all I`ll say. You`re going to be outgunned with all these women around you. So I appreciate you joining my.
JAMIE KENNEDY, ACTOR: I`m happy to be the guinea pig.
PINSKY: But Jamie, I`m actually going to go to you first as one of the lay people on the panel. What`s your reaction? I get upset. I get really disturbed, when I hear these kids calling because one of their peers is committing mass murder.
KENNEDY: That call is harrowing. And, you know, I think of a few things number one. Let`s talk about this. For some reason in the human psyche recently, it seems like there`s a complete lack of empathy.
KENNEDY: Like I have no idea why a kid why he thinks like that and how he can do that. I believed he has mentally disturbed.
PINSKY: Yes. Well, Jamie, let`s deal with that. Let`s start with that because that`s a great point. I`ll go to Wendy.
Wendy, we know that the teen brain is not develop yet. They are not great in empathy. But when they have problems with attachment, the empathy is even worst and then you add depression in and now you got the problem.
WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR SPECIALIST: Yes. And then you add maybe six solid years of video game playing. You know, Dr. Drew, I posted some research on my social networks today about a new study that shows one in ten people under the age of 21 openly admit they`ve been a sexual perpetrator and that was directly linked to the consumption of porn.
So, can we not extrapolate that a developing brain, if it`s exposed to this kind of gun usage and boy, they get good hand-eye coordination from those games.
PINSKY: Well then, Jennifer, is nodding her head. Yes, Jennifer, what do you think?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I took a gun safety course with my husband just this past Friday. And for the first time in my life I held a semi- automatic gun and fired it.
KEITT: The number one rule that -- I took it because I wanted to know about what it felt like. I`ve never used a gun before. I never even been around guns before, but --
PINSKY: Was it like a video game?
KEITT: It was nothing like that. The responsibility that I felt when I held that gun in my hand, I am telling you, I still, am terrified. But the number one rule that the master trainer said is that you never have gun and ammunition in the same place. I`m sorry, but the parents have got to be held responsible for the fact that somehow this child was able to get ammunition and a gun together at the same time.
PINSKY: There you go.
KEITT: And I`m sorry. We`ve got to talk about that. You cannot have a gun for protection and then not protect your own children from it.
SCHACHER: Amen. I agree with you 100 percent.
Dr. Drew, a question to the panel, because we know or we are assuming that this child was not mentally sane, what are some of the warning signs that parents can be aware of?
PINSKY: You know, Cheryl, I will go to you on this. Teen pregnancy is different than adult pregnancy. They may be just obviously see in appetite changes, changes in how they conduct themselves with their dress, the peers they`re around, but they don`t complain of sadness. They just tend to withdraw. They act in or act out. Acting out can be aggression like this. Acting in can be cutting, eating disturbances, depression, anxiety.
Cheryl, go ahead.
CHERYL ARUTT. CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Did you just say teen pregnancy?
PINSKY: No, I beg your pardon. Teen depression.
KENNEDY: We wish people were pregnant instead.
ARUTT: Right past that. I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
ARUTT: Yes. Teen depression can be different from adult depression. And there can be a lot of warning signs in terms of what kids say. I mean, if they`re talking about hopelessness and helplessness. What`s the point. A lot of times they can`t function. They can`t get out of bed.
One of the problems with teens particularly, we see this more overtly, boys are more likely to act out and girls are more likely to act in. That is more of a generalization.
But impulse control is the problem. Understanding the permanence of their action is a problem. A kid at 12 can`t realize he`s got a temporary problem that he`s doing something that will hurt forever.
And Jamie, I think that`s the point. They think, male, particularly, they think about suicide, they`re more likely to complete the suicide. They are more likely use a handgun. And it seems like these days they`re more likely to do it in this dramatic fashion where they`re including other people in what they do with that handgun.
KENNEDY: Yes. And Dr. Drew, I mean, let`s just talk about this.
This is a broken record of a story. It just keeps happening. So all you psychologists as you know, Dr. Drew, what`s the definition of insanity?
KENNEDY: You know, the same thing over expecting different results. So, number one, would you say there`s too many guns? I grew up in Philadelphia. OK. I take the subways since I`m 8-years-old. OK, I had some older sisters with me. but, it`s not uncommon, they had their purses snatched and stuff like that. I never had a gun. My father never had a gun. You know what he used to say? Have mugging money on you. I mean, like I`m saying like (INAUDIBLE). But I`m saying there are too many guns.
And the other thing is there are a lot of psychological issues that I can`t tell you enough that people have. This is going to keep happening unless there`s less guns. And I know that`s hard to do.
PINSKY: Hold o n. The less guns, we`re all signed off on that.
KENNEDY: But the mental illness.
WALSH: I have a solution.
PINSKY: Who has a solution?
SCHACHER: Wendy has a solution.
PINSKY: Wendy, go ahead.
WALSH: As you now, Dr. Drew, I am a dual citizen of Canada and America. I grew up in Canada where we have far more guns per capita than Americans. Surprise, surprise. But our murder rate is so low. It is because, hovering back to what your other guest just said, the gun storage laws are so strict. The ammunition has to be stored in a separate, locked box. The gun has to be stored in a separate, locked box. This prevents impulsive crimes. You have to find different keys and go to different parts of your house and figure out combinations. You may have cooled off by the time you figured out how to put the gun together. It also keep the kids away from guns. And neighbors turn in neighbors over this. Let me tell you, the people don`t mess with those guns solution.
PINSKY: All right, I love that. Jamie you sign out on that one.
KENNEDY: Well, I have a question because that makes a lot of sense and it`s practical. But let me ask you in your psyche. Why do you need all those guns? Let me just ask you that.
PINSKY: Me personally?
PINSKY: The panel. I don`t think anybody in the panel would say you need them.
WALSH: In Canada, we need them because it`s hunting, you know. We`re one third greater land mass than America and only 10 percent of the population. So, there`s a lot of wilderness and a lot of hunting going on.
ARUTT: Not a lot of semi-automatic weapons, though.
WALSH: No. That`s the other thing.
PINSKY: Good conversation. I think there`s this other piece about the mental health part that we keep coming up with every time, every time when these things happens. It is somebody who is potentially in a treatable situation. Sometimes they have a physician or psychologist who`s following them, but they can`t seem to restrict them from acting out. And I think right in there is one of the problems turn. But, we don`t have a solution for that tonight.
Thank you, panel.
Next up, he`s one of TV`s most popular shows. He is the host. Now, he`s facing a drug rap. Could this have been a setup?
And later, a woman fears to nap off on a subway flat form and starts apparently sleep walking or something right onto the tracks. There you see a crowd attempting to save her from an oncoming train. You`ll see that in more in a moment.
PINSKY: We are back. My co-host Samantha Schacher.
Sam, I`m going to share another tweet with you. It is from Codi Allan Hart. I don`t think guns are the issue. It`s the breakdown of the social and family structure which I think is sort of a general way of saying what we were all saying on that last panel which is we have to do a better job as community, as families and what we do to children matters.
PINSKY: All right, new story. Cee Lo Green is perhaps best known as one of the coaches on and talent judges on NBC`s hit show, "The Voice." Yesterday, he found himself in front of a judge for allegedly drugging his date. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The Los Angeles district attorney`s office alleges Green slipped ecstasy to a female dinner companion then took advantage of her in her hotel room. Prosecutors decline to charge Cee Lo with rape of an intoxicated person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Are you relieved because the rape charge was dropped? Are you still a little scared though?
CEELO GREEN, SINGER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Cee Lo Green says he did not slip ecstasy into a woman`s drink at dinner. He pleaded not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A not guilty plea, deny all allegations enhancements and priors on behalf of y our client?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we do your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. A not guilty plea is entered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Could the entertainer finds himself behind bars?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He faces up to four years in prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with us, Lynn Berry, Dean Obeidallah, Areva Martin and Danny Cevallos.
Lynn, can you give us the details or the charges and who this accuser was?
BERRY: Well, basically, he`s been charged with one count of providing ecstasy to this woman. Now, investigator looked in to this --
PINSKY: Wait. Hold on. Hold on. I got to stop you right over there. He`s inadvertently giving it to her or like handing her ecstasy?
BERRY: Providing the drug, so not slipping it to her and taking advantage of her, or else he would have been charged with rape. And that is the key thing here because investigators looked into this two different times. And they said there was insufficient evidence that he engaged in a sexual act with her that was non-consensual. And she just (INAUDIBLE). She said that she was having with him. He slipped her the drink. She was then, you know, debilitated, and she wakes up naked in his hotel room and it was rape.
PINSKY: Areva, what do you think about this?
MARTIN: You know, Dr. Drew, we know that 75 percent of acquaintance rapes occur because there was drugs and alcohol involved. I know the district attorney has said there was insufficient evidence. But this case really troubles me.
We see so many of these cases where the victims are not given justice. We saw the Ohio case. We just saw the Missouri case where the public had to come together to put pressure on the prosecutors to charge the perpetrators. I just hope this isn`t a case of a celebrity getting some kind of, you know, special treatment because of their celebrity status.
PINSKY: Sam, I`m afraid -- Sam, I`m going to let you do so. But I`m afraid he`s getting a special treatment on this -- he`s getting sort of the --
SCHACHER: What if he`s the victim?
PINSKY: That`s what I am saying.
SCHACHER: I want to present that.
MARTIN: Well, if he is the victim, it will come out in the trial. But we know in all too many of these cases it is the woman who has been given drugs and alcohol. She then is diminish in her capacity. She has taken advantage of.
MARTIN: It causes you to be more relaxed. It causes you to not be able to respond appropriately to danger. And alcohol does make you incapacitated in a way that you`re more vulnerable to sexual assaults.
PINSKY: That`s true. Dean --
ARUTT: But Dr. Drew, real quick, can we talk about what drug it was? If the drug called molly. It`s commonly used drug, unfortunately as ecstasy. It`s not like it was a roofie. And that should be something that is an important distinction.
PINSKY: Well, I`ve got to say that this idea that she passed out because of molly is insane. The only way you pass out from molly is extremists, like you`re in a cardiac arrest and you need to go to the hospital. Otherwise, it`s an stimulant. It is an empethamy (ph) in analog.
So Dean, you are saying no.
OBEIDALLAH: I`m saying, if Cee Lo didn`t see he is an idiot. What does he not get about being famous and wealthy? That will attract women. You don`t have to use drugs. I mean, I`m on basic cable periodically and I get offers from some women on, which I have to say no to because I live with my girlfriend.
But the point is, honestly, though, his lawyer used an extreme word. He said the charge of sharing ecstasy. That`s the term his lawyer has said. The charge is not quote "sharing ecstasy." But I think that`s really his defense. And it`s not a good defense as Danny will tell you. You cannot consent to giving illegal drugs to someone. That is still a crime.
PINSKY: Well, I`m going to have Danny to say so. What do you think, Danny?
CEVALLOS: Yes, Dean`s actually right. The California code doesn`t make a distinction of whether or not the victim wanted it or didn`t want it with this charge. He`s charged with possession. But because he furnished it under the code that bumps it up to the felony. But legally aside, what`s really fascinating here is most of the drug cases I handle involve a police witness and a seizure analysis. That means they got the drug and they have to be able to prove it is what it was.
This is a case that is based entirely on uncorroborated testimony of a witness that, after listening to her story or working with her, the prosecution decided she wasn`t good enough to make the case for a sexual assault. I don`t know what went into that decision-making process, but it`s a decision the prosecutor made. And it may have been based on a credibility.
PINSKY: Lynn, do we know anything about who this person is?
BERRY: She`s a 33-year-old woman. They have not given any more details than that. The two were having dinner at an L.A. restaurant. And you know, I think that there is a good point to be made that there are a lot of people that just because they`re in a situation and on a date, they are not a victim. But it`s happened before where, you know, a date will slip you a roofie, but this was not a roofie.
MARTIN: There are drugs involved. And everybody seems to be minimizing the significance of drugs being involved. Why else is someone giving -- why is a man giving a woman drugs on a date other than to take advantage of her?
BERRY: Because there are a lot of celebrities that take ecstasy because it heightens your sexual experience.
MARTIN: This woman says she woke up in a hotel room and didn`t consent to sex.
PINSKY: Not ecstasy. Let`s be clear, a lot of people are not aware, Sam, that in California, it`s sort of like drunk driving. And if you`re above a certain level, I think it`s very low, you`re not allowed to render consent. You are not considered to be able to write a consent. And so, there is a liability in California that a lot of people are not aware of. But to say, I was incapacitated. I don`t remember because of ecstasy, false. I`m sorry. I happen to be an expert with this one.
MARTIN: It`s not just the ecstasy, Dr. Drew. It`s the alcohol too. You got to give that -- you have to take that into consideration.
PINSKY: So, what do we do? She drank the alcohol willingly, but hold him accountable for her drinking and him not knowing that she was above --
MARTIN: You can`t take advantage of someone because they`re willingly take alcohol. And if they`re incapacitated, you can`t take advantage of them. That`s the law --
PINSKY: I agree that, Areva. She may not have seemed incapacitated.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right. And here`s the thing. We don`t know who the victim is. And we don`t want to blame victim, but I just wanted to present the case that Cee Lo could also be the victim so could she. There`s not enough details or evidence to support either one of them. It`s actually a he said/she said.
PINSKY: All right. What we`ll do is we`re bringing a "Behavior Bureau" to look a little more at this.
And coming up, we have amazing video of a woman who seems to be, well, it`s been called sleepwalking. I`m going to tell you what I think this is, right into the path of an oncoming train. Take a look at this. You`ll see it more in just a few minutes.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," a huge day in court -- Utah on the Dr. MacNeill case crime scene photos shown to the jury for the first time. We`re going to show them to our jury.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: This was the moment we are waiting for. What happened in that bathroom? And the bold question for the jury tonight, Did Dr. MacNeill stage the scene? They are ready to go on this one.
POLITAN: And we`re going to take them out to a recreated death scene tonight as well, trying to figure out exactly what happened. "HLN After Dark," top of the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cee Lo, how are you feeling, man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Green`s accuser says she woke up naked in his bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the uncorroborated testimony of a witness, a civilian, that the prosecutor has already decided is not credible enough to bring a sexual assault case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I disagree with that. That`s, wow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher, and our "Behavior Bureau," Cheryl Arutt, Jennifer Keitt, Wendy Walsh, and again, Jamie Kennedy joins us to "Behavior Bureau." Something I`ve been wanting to do for time was bring in interested celebrities into this conversation. And Jamie, thank you for being first up to the plate here.
I want to read you all a tweet. First of all, before I read the tweet, I want to just remind people that we`re talking about the singer, Cee Lo Green, coach and judge on NBC`s "The Voice," he`s been accused of drugging his date with ecstasy. She says she woke up naked in her hotel room with Cee Lo in bed with her. Cee Lo`s attorney says this was consensual.
Here`s a tweet. And Jamie, I`ll have you react to it. It`s from Donna Marie Camiso (ph), DmCamiso, "Cee Lo never expected to get caught. Many stars think money gives them a free pass at disgusting/criminal behavior." Jamie, have at it. Go ahead.
JAMIE KENNEDY, @JAMIEKENNEDY: The internet is the equivalent of reading the writing on the bathroom wall. Really? Thanks whoever that was from. I mean, Twitter should be shut down, number one. Number two is let`s talk about this really simply. I`m going to go from the angle of celebs are targets.
Now, let`s consider the source. Who`s this woman? What did they say? I know one thing, the DA doesn`t have enough evidence to prosecute. Number two, molly, everyone knows it. It`s not a drug that takes you down. It`s excitable. It`s sexual.
KENNEDY: OK. Number three, it`s agreed that he gave it to her and she took it, correct? Correct?
PINSKY: We think so.
KENNEDY: So, she took it. So, my question is, if you guys don`t think people are doing drugs, I mean, go to Coachella. Molly is like candy. I mean, you got to grow up. Seriously, you got to grow up.
PINSKY: I have to deal with this all the time.
KENNEDY: Yes, you do. But people are like -- and you know who`s doing it more? Regular people. They want to loosen -- you know, let the things go. Celebrities, what does Cee Lo have to lose if he did this? A lot more than this woman. Would you not agree?
PINSKY: Yes. Remember Marv Albert when he had a woman that suddenly started claiming he done something to her? Remember that whole story --
KENNEDY: He bit her butt. That was the thing.
PINSKY: That`s what she claimed. And I want to go and brought it out (ph) to the panel and say, you know, you guys jumped all over Jodi Arias for distorting and, you know -- you know, sort of calling herself a victim when perhaps she wasn`t. Let`s start with Wendy. Is she necessarily a victim or can we have somebody like Jodi again claiming victimization?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., AUTHOR, "THE 30-DAY LOVE DETOX": Well, we don`t know exactly what happened to this particular anonymous woman. But, it is possible, Dr. Drew, for someone to perceive that they have been victimized.
WALSH: And that would be somebody who suffered some trauma in early life.
WALSH: So, they tend to be hypersensitive any idea that, oh, maybe they were drugged.
SCHACHER: Or maybe there`s an opportunist.
PINSKY: It`s not necessarily opportunist, Sam, but Wendy`s right.
SCHACHER: I`m not saying they are. I`m just saying that could be another possibility.
PINSKY: Well, but that`s the point that Jamie`s making which is that if somebody is like that, and this guy has a good target, low threshold. Jennifer, you`ve been smiling through this whole thing. I`m dying to know what you`re thinking.
JENNIFER KEITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You know what I`m thinking? What happened to good, old-fashioned sex?
KEITT: No drugs, no alcohol. This was a --
KEITT: Come on. Why can`t we get it up without drugs? Why can`t two consenting adults have a wonderful time without alcohol? Sex in and of itself is a fantastic experience. This was a mess to happen to begin with. Cee Lo with his celebrity, her with her -- I guess, I don`t know if she was thinking they were just going to have dinner and then go home and what? Do tidally winks? Come on.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: What are you saying? If a woman is out and having dinner with the man, she should know that sex is expected afterwards?
KEITT: I am saying that she has got to be mature enough to really understand what is really at play here? What was really at stake? What kind of conversation was happening and going on? I`m not blaming her
ARUTT: I`m sorry. It sounds like -- here`s the thing. I love Cee Lo. I love Cee Lo`s music. I think he`s fantastic. He`s a celebrity. Here`s the thing. If you know you`re a target, why not, why is the onus not on Cee Lo to be extra, extra careful about things --
ARUTT: Here`s what`s not in dispute. What does not seem to be in dispute is that Cee Lo gave her this drug without her knowledge, second.
PINSKY: No, no. With her knowledge. With her knowledge.
ARUTT: OK. Here`s the thing, though. I don`t know that. Now, if he gave the drug without her knowledge and they had sexual contact, why is the onus on her to prove she didn`t consent? Because that doesn`t seem to follow California law. And that`s what troubles me.
PINSKY: No, you`re right. And that`s what the attorneys were telling us in the last segment. That was a significant issue. But Jamie, go ahead. React.
KENNEDY: California law. What about the laws of the human body? I mean, it`s known fact that when you take molly or ecstasy, it was made in the 1950s or 1960s to bring people closer together. It`s a touchy drug. So, she took it. She knew that there`s might be some touching.
WALSH: Wait a minute. you`re saying that --
PINSKY: Go, Wendy.
WALSH: You`re saying that if you take a drug and maybe even a glass of wine on a date, then you should expect that you`re going to have sex?
KENNEDY: Wendy, Wendy, I would never say that. The actual drug you take, though, is a touchy-feely drug. Am I correct or incorrect?
WALSH: It`s also a known date rape drug as is alcohol --
KENNEDY: Molly`s a date rape drug? That`s the first time I`ve ever heard that.
WALSH: We`re looking at ecstasy in combination with alcohol. And what that does, too, there`s -- here`s the thing, it causes people to be impaired, but because of the upper, they underestimate how impaired they are.
PINSKY: Yes, that`s true. That is true. She`s right.
KEITT: What I`m saying, though, is that adults need to get back to the basics. Can we please have relationships and relational conversation so that we can have good sex? We can actually be together without criminal activity?
PINSKY: I`m going to give -- this will be a policy of mine. I`m going to give to our guest to the panel. Jamie being our guest today, last word.
KENNEDY: Two things. I`m sure Cee Lo has a lot of normal sex. It just might have been like a little trial thing. Who knows what happens? But number two is, as the -- you know, a celeb is a target whatever. I will say I`ve gone out of my way sometimes early in my career. I`ve grown up a lot more, hopefully because of Dr. Drew, but I`ve had some of what they say one-night stands. Is that OK to say?
PINSKY: It`s OK.
KENNEDY: Sometimes, when I`ve had them, afterwards, I can see this girl`s getting a little clingy. Things are weird. So, guess what? She`s staying the night. She`s getting the room service. She`s getting a spa day, because you know what, I -- have weirdness and I was lucky. Maybe I`ve avoided something.
I don`t know if Cee Lo didn`t read her right. I`m just saying every incident is different. But celebrities, sometimes, if they do something like, they`ll get out, it could be cause an issue.
PINSKY: Thank you, Jamie. Thank you, panel. If you have a comment or question for the "Behavior Bureau," tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
Next up, subway so-called sleepwalker rocks into the tracks in some sort of altered state. And, well, you have to see whether she lives and how she gets rescued. A witness to this event is here with us. Back after this.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher, Lynn Berry, Wendy Walsh, and Jennifer Keitt as well. We`re going to look at the surveillance video from Boston. A woman who appears to be having an alteration of her sensorium suddenly walks right to the edge of the subway platform and in in front of a train somehow avoiding the electrified third rail. She`s clearly sort of impaired. Lynn, what do we know about this?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Well, we see from the video her just walking straight forward. Well, quickly, witnesses coming rushing over. They jumped down there. They rescue her just a minute before that train comes plowing through, saving her life. She just has a broken arm, but she tells police that she was sleeping on a bench there that you can see in the video. And then, she was sleepwalking, and that`s what prompted her to walk right there onto the track.
PINSKY: You know what`s interesting --
SCHACHER: is that possible?
PINSKY: Well, it`s possible, but not likely. But let`s talk about that in a second. But it`s interesting there`s not much of a bystander effect here either. The bystander effect is the more people there are, the less likely they are to jump in. And it seems like everyone really lent a hand here from the beginning right on through and that saved her life.
Wendy, I say this is not sleepwalking. This is altered, you know, altered mental state as we call that, but there`s ten things it could be. Sleepwalking on the list but low on the list.
WALSH: I think you used the magic word at the beginning when you said impairment. I think that she`s taken something.
PINSKY: That could be --
WALSH: -- something aiding her delirious state.
PINSKY: That could be. It could be a partial complex seizure. It could be a general medical -- could be something inside her head. She needs a medical workup. Jennifer, any thoughts?
KEITT: You know, it looked really strange to me. I guess I am just so skeptical on anything that I see that`s video. But I do understand that this video was actually time stamped and came from a credible source, but it just looked really, really strange to me, very strange.
PINSKY: It`s actually directly from the MTA. And actually, I`ve got -- Sam, I`ve got somebody who witnessed this on the phone. Her name is Abhe. I want to get this right, Gallewale. Abhe, did you see her fall?
VOICE OF ABHE GALLEWALE, WITNESS: Hi, Dr. Drew. No, I actually did not see her fall. I think you can see from the video there wasn`t really anybody there when she did fall. But I did see her crumpled body right before people rescued her.
PINSKY: How did she seem once she came up out of the well there?
GALLEWALE: Like you said, it seemed a little bizarre. She was -- when we first heard, saw her there, she was screaming pretty loudly, as you can probably imagine. And as soon as she was rescued, she continued screaming. And she did yell that she had a broken arm, but she kept screaming if anybody touched her, even if they gave her a reassuring arm just to make sure that she was properly up on the track, she screamed at them not to touch her at all. She seemed --
PINSKY: It`s weird.
PINSKY: If you guys remember the woman on the plane the other day, remember, God, you`re my savior lady? And if she got touched screamed in a similar fashion. Lynn, you have a question?
BERRY: Well, you see there in the video that there`s no one around, and then, all of a sudden, there are swarms of people. Do you know how that came to be? Did somebody notify someone in other area?
GALLEWALE: Not that I know of. I think that what happened was I saw her at the exact same time everybody else saw her who rescued her. What happened was there were two levels to a subway station in Boston, so we were all swiping in. And we could hear screams coming out throughout the whole station, but there was actually a train arriving on the other side of the tracks on the opposite side.
So, many people were just sort of rushing to catch that train, and I think there is a bit of an example of the bystander effect there because there were dozens of people who simply hopped on that train on their way to work and didn`t give a second thought.
PINSKY: How close was this? How close a call was it, Abhe?
GALLEWALE: It wasn`t a close call because there is no train coming on the side that she was on in terms of the tracks. There was a train on the other side going in the other direction.
PINSKY: Sam, quick question. I`ve got --
SCHACHER: Did anybody speak to her afterwards until, you know, help came to show up? Did she say anything at all?
GALLEWALE: When I was there for the two or three minutes that I was there, she was completely inaudible. She just continued screaming even after she was rescued.
PINSKY: I`m telling you this is not sleepwalking. Officially, I declare it as such. And for people in the press to jump on it as sleepwalking is naive. It is a lot of things that can do this. That`s, again, on the list, but not very likely. Thank you. I really do appreciate you giving us, really, a specific, firsthand account of what went on there. I do appreciate that.
Thank you, panel. Next up, there are arrests tonight in that football beat down case. We`re right back with that after this.
PINSKY: Back with Samantha Schacher, my co-host, also, Lynn Berry, Wendy Walsh, Jennifer Keitt, and Jamie Kennedy. Breaking news now in a story about a violent fight at an NFL game that was caught on tape. Four arrests have been made tonight. This video we`re going to watch is from DeadSpin.com taken after the Jets/Patriots game on Sunday.
Take a look -- punches them right in the face. Both the man and the woman along with two other people have been arrested and charged with simple assault and disorderly conduct. Jamie, you`re having a reaction.
KENNEDY: Is that Gizelle (ph). She`s wearing a Patriot`s jersey.
PINSKY: This whole thing is not OK, right?
KENNEDY: No, it`s terrible. What I want to say is this, I`ve been taking an ecstasy from Cee Lo looks a lot more inviting.
PINSKY: Yes. It`s -- Jennifer --
KENNEDY: No. That`s terrible.
PINSKY: Jennifer, your response.
KEITT: I don`t think that men should hit women. I`m just going to go right there. Even if they`re crazy. I`m sorry.
PINSKY: This woman was arrested as well, which is interesting, right?
KEITT: I would have preferred he just restrain her, but --
SCHACHER: What about this gentleman`s history where he was arrested at 17 for stabbing another 17-year-old to death.
PINSKY: Lynn, did you know that one?
SCHACHER: There`s history here.
PINSKY: Lynn --
BERRY: Yes. Absolutely. He was 17 years old, he fatally stabbed a boy. He spent four years in prison. His family says he was wrongfully accused, but the point of contention here, police reviewed the video. She threw the first punch. So, should he have punched her back?
PINSKY: And Wendy, Wendy, you know alcohol`s probably involved with this. There was disorderly conduct. Wendy, we started this show talking about unregulated aggression in adolescence. We`re looking at unregulated aggression in an adult. What do we do with all this?
WALSH: Well, obviously, that they need to learn some anger management on both sides and maybe reduce their alcohol intake at games. But I think it`s important to understand that the power differential is so disparate between men and women that it`s very important that men understand that under no circumstances should they ever, ever, ever hit a woman, especially if they can simply restrain her.
PINSKY: All right. Guys, thank you. Panel, we`re going to take a quick break and return for the "Last Call."
PINSKY: "Last Call," and Sam, I`ve held Jamie Kennedy back for the "Last Call" to read a tweet to him. This is #behaviorbureau. "Love your show." Watching tonight is from Vivian Wilson about Cee Lo. "I must agree with the gentleman," meaning Jamie, "primarily about celebs being target." So, Jamie, there are people out there that get a sense of what you`re saying.
KENNEDY: Ooh, can you believe it?
KENNEDY: You can tweet it to me @JamieKennedy.
PINSKY: I kind of think, sometimes, it`s sort of reverse O.J. Simpson effect. You know what I mean? Like, we`re not going to let another one get away.
KENNEDY: Yes. No. I mean, look, you know Cee Lo much better than I. I get to know him a little bit.
PINSKY: He`s a good guy.
KENNEDY: He`s a great guy. And I just think that, look, let`s be -- let`s not judge.
PINSKY: There you go. Thank you --
PINSKY: Thank you, guys. Thank you, Sam, for joining me this evening. Good job. Jamie, thank you for being our guinea pig (ph) on this. "HLN After Dark" begins right now.