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CONNECT THE WORLD
Angela Merkel: NSA Spying On German Government Unacceptable; Man City's Yaya Toure Claims Racial Abuse During Match Against CSKA Moscow; Australian Bush Fires Claim Another Life
Aired October 24, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Never acceptable, the world's most powerful woman slams the United States over allegations the NSA tapped her phone calling it a breach of trust. Tonight, we take a closer look into the shadowy workings of the world of espionage.
Also this hour...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I (inaudible) that we change (inaudible). That we get big (inaudible)...
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ANDERSON: Why racism seems to be a plague that football just can't shake off.
And following the mystery of Maria, we go inside the community where she grew up.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: Well, we begin this evening with a scandal that has driven a rift between two close friends. Earlier today, Germany summoned the American ambassador to Berlin to explain recent allegations that U.S. national security had monitored the communications of the world's most powerful woman, Chancellor Angela Merkel.
Well, speaking to reporters ahead of an EU summit currently underway in Brussels, Merkel herself says the scandal could undermine trust between the two sides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): I would like to also touch on the matter of the allegations regarding the NSA. There needs to be trust between the U.S. and European nations. And that eavesdropping amongst friends is never acceptable, no matter in what situation. As I said it back in June in Berlin and again reiterated yesterday in a phone call with the president.
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ANDERSON: Well, the White House insists it is not and will not monitor Merkel's cellphone, but the question it is -- has it done so in the past? Well, that was put to White House spokesperson Jay Carney a short while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the United States monitored the chancellor's phone calls in the past?
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We are not going to comment publicly on every specified alleged intelligence activity. And as a matter of policy, we have made clear that the United States gathers foreign intelligence of the type gathered by all nations. And I mentioned yesterday, the president spoke with Chancellor Merkel, reassured her that the United States is not and will not monitor the chancellor's communications. And we have also said, broadly, that at the president's direction we are reviewing the way that we gather intelligence to ensure that we properly balance the security concerns of our citizens and allies with the privacy concerns that all people share.
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ANDERSON: Well, despite Washington's best efforts to contain this political fallout, it's not the first time this week that it has been forced to explain itself to some of its closest friends. Jim Sciutto reports.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On Monday, it was France revealed to be in the crosshairs of the NSA. The French newspaper "La Monde" reporting that in the 30 days from December 10th, 2012 to January 8, 2013, the NSA allegedly intercepted over 70 million phone calls in France, an average of nearly 3 million intercepts per day.
The director of national intelligence said in a statement "that report was false," though it did not specify how. By then, the French foreign minister had already blasted the American policy of widespread surveillance.
LAURENT FABIUS, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): These kind of practices between partners that violate privacy are totally unacceptable.
SCIUTTO: Documents released by Edward Snowden have now revealed NSA surveillance of the communications of a long list of close U.S. allies including Germany, England, Brazil, Mexico and the European Union.
(on camera): When you look at America's soft power, its message and its relationships with these countries, how embarrassing is this?
PJ CROWLEY, FRM. U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: : It's always awkward. I mean, what you have here is a situation where either someone sees the hand in the cookie jar or has strong evidence the hand has been in the cookie jar. Every time this happens there's going to be awkward conversations.
SCIUTTO: When each of these surveillance cases is broken involving American allies, the administration has made two points. One, that all countries spy on each other. And two, that they are conducting a review of this surveillance to get a better balance between security concerns and privacy concerns. But the administration has yet to say what that review has found or what changes it may bring.
Jim Sciutto, CNN, Washington.
ANDERSON: Well, there has also been strong reaction to the latest spying allegations in European newspapers. Germany's best-selling daily Bild says the new scandal raises serious suspicions against U.S. intelligence services.
Der Spiegel warns a scandal could not only hurt bilateral ties, but also Merkel and Obama's personal relationship.
And the outrage goes beyond German boarders. Spain's El Pais says that the U.S. government can't stay silent in the face of a, quote, "scandalous mass infringement of individual rights."
While the French daily Le Figaro appeals for strong and common European reaction to the alleged U.S. reaction.
So, if the recent allegations are true, the question many will be asking themselves is how did the NSA manage to tap into that mobile phone of such a high profile target? To help us decipher this enigma, I'm joined by security technologist and author Bruce Schneier from Minneapolis.
Sir, and as we speak, one British newspaper is reporting, we can't confirm this yet, but we'll do our own legwork on it. One British newspaper reporting the U.S. may have tapped into as many as 30 odd world leaders' devices, as it were.
Just explain to me how, or why, Angela Merkel would be carrying a phone allegedly, which could be tapped?
BRUCE SCHNEIER, AUTHOR: Well, she has to talk to people. I mean, security for communications depends on both ends. And if she wants to talk to her aunt or her friends or, you know, maybe some colleagues they're not going to have special secret phones, they're going to have normal phones. So if wants to talk to them, she has to talk on her normal phone.
ANDERSON: So that's the point, her phone may be encrypted and secure, but theirs won't be, right? I mean, it's the other person who becomes the problem.
SCHNEIER: But it has nothing to do with the phone, it's the communication circuit. So in order for her to encrypt her phone communications, let's say, to you. You have to have that same encryption program. And you're likely not. The NSA is taping inside the network. And these calls are not encrypted. And you said 30 world leaders. I'll be surprised if it's that low.
ANDERSON: Interesting. So there is no magic phone, as far as you are concerned?
SCHNEIER: There isn't a magic phone. There are things you can do. There are security products that work on phones, that work on computers for audio, for video, for text. If both sides have them you can communicate more securely. And there are people who do that. And presumably she will do that with her cabinet, with her closest colleagues, who also have this security software, but it's not going to work in general.
ANDERSON: All right, so we can't immunize us against being snooped on, but can we make ourselves safer?
SCHNEIER: You know we can. And the things a network can do. The phone companies have decided not to encrypt in the backbone, the Internet, the phone calls. There are things we in the tech community can do to make this harder.
For individuals, it's simply a matter of using some of this security software. It won't work in general, but if you're a company you can mandate all your employees use it to talk to each other. I mean, that's perfectly reasonable.
ANDERSON: There's a person called Silent Circle I know makes you -- or helps you make calls via a secure environment. But again, the other person at the other end of that call has to be using the same technology, right?
SCHNEIER: Right. It's the same thing. I mean, you know, in the Korean War the U.S. used speaking Navajo language as a security device. It only worked if both sides spoke Navajo.
Silent Circle is a security program for voice, video and chat. There are others.
But, yes, both sides have to have it for it to work.
ANDERSON: So the only way to be totally safe, Bruce, is what?
SCHNEIER: The only way to be totally safe it to through away your computer and throw away your phone. That's not very useful advice. So there's no way to be totally safe. You can be more safe by doing the security practices. Some of these are some, some of them are annoying, but there are measures people can take to be safer.
The problem is the NSA is scarfing up everything. And they're getting these world leaders in the mix, right. If individuals take security practices, the NSA would have to target them specifically, which is much harder, much more expensive and much less likely.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Bruce, thank you.
All right, still to come tonight, abduction at sea: two men have been taken from a U.S. flagged ship off the coast of Nigeria. I'm going to get you to Lagos for the very latest on that.
Then the Australian bush fires has claimed another victim. Is the worst over? Well, we will be finding out about the blazes burning Down Under.
And the plague on the pitch, another player cries foul over racism in football. All that and much more when this show, connect the world, continues. 11 minutes past 8:00 in London. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: This is CNN. And you are watching Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Now a South African court has taken up a case that has shocked and sickened the nation. Five suspects appeared before a judge in Pretoria today in connection with what is an unspeakable crime against the most innocent of victims. Arwa Damon spoke with the mother of one of two little girls whose lives were brutally cut short.
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thokozani speaks softly in halting sentences about what happened to her daughter, 2-year-old Yonalisa (ph) and her 3-year-old cousin Zandile (ph).
Thokozani asked that we not film her face. Her family doesn't want to attract even more unwelcome attention. Yonalisa (ph), her first and only child.
She liked to sing?
THOKOZANI, MOTHER: Yeah, she liked to sing even if it was not perfect.
DAMON: Thokozani was inside the house right there in the kitchen. The girls, they were playing right here. She says she was checking on them every single five minutes when all of a sudden she realized they'd gone silent.
They disappeared. The community rallied. The police were alerted, all helping in the search. It's every parent's worst nightmare. And especially here where the struggle to protect the innocent is even greater.
The sprawling densely populated township of Deepfoot (ph) on the outskirts of Johannesburg is one of the most violent places in the country. A few days after the girls went missing, their tiny lifeless bodies were found in one of the public toilets. The girls had been raped and murdered.
Thokozani can't bring herself to speak about it.
THOKOZANI: I'm trying to be strong.
DAMON: What have we done? What have we done? The sorrowful refrain of a popular liberation movement song. Deepfoot (ph) residents protest outside of the courthouse as five suspects make a brief routine appearance inside. Arrests are rare. And only 6 percent of rape cases lead to convictions.
But rape itself is hardly an isolated incident. South Africa has one of the highest rates of sexual violence in the world. But many victims stay silent.
RACEHL JEWKES, MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL: If you take into account the fact that rape is so under reported -- no, I mean there are several rapes every minute in this country by our estimate.
DAMON: Jewkes has been researching South Africa's rape epidemic for two decades. She says the majority of known victims are adult women, but some 15 percent are children under the age of 11.
Outside of Thokozani's home, a box is filled with the girls' shoes. She says she'll donate them, but not yet. Her pain just too raw.
THOKOZANI: She's always next to me. So when I think of that, I feel like crying.
DAMON: All she has left is a crumpled missing child poster. And any little girl here could be next.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Deep Foot (ph), South Africa.
ANDERSON: U.S. officials says two mariners have been abducted from their ship off the coast of Nigeria. The captain and chief engineer were seized when their oil supply vessel came under attack.
Now the attack happened on Wednesday in the Gulf of Guinea. CNN's Vlad Duthiers has been monitoring developments. And he joins us now live from Lagos.
What more do we know at this point, Vlad?
VLAD DUTHIERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Becky.
Well, we don't know a whole lot, but what we do know is that this vessel, the Sea Retriever, is a U.S. flagged vessel operated by a company based in Louisiana, a company called Edison Chouest.
Now vessel was traveling through the Gulf of Guinea approximately we think 3:00 am in the morning or some time around that time Wednesday when they were attacked by pirates. The captain of the ship, as well as the chief engineer who are American citizens were taken hostage.
And so far we've had no reports as to where they may be or even if there's been a ransom request.
Now, as you mentioned, this attack happened in the Gulf of Guinea. This is an area off the coast of West Africa that has seen a significant increase in piracy and other maritime criminal activities over the last couple of years. Typically in the news we talk about piracy and we think of Somalia in east Africa, but 30 percent of the piracy incidents that occur in African waters happen off the coast of west Africa and specifically in the Gulf of Guinea, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yeah, fascinating.
All right, Vlad, thank you for that. More as we get it, of course.
Protesters in Tunisia have torched and ransacked an office of the ruling Islamist party. These images show the aftermath, shattered windows, blackened walls and charred documents in the street. The attack happened in the town of Kef, which is just meters from the home of one of six policemen killed yesterday in a gun battle with suspected Jihadists. Tunisia's opposition accuses the ruling party of failing to reign in militants.
In Australia, it appears like the worst may be over, but firefighters do remain vigilant. More than 60 wildfires still raging in the state of New South Wales, 20 of them are uncontained.
The bush fires have claimed their second victim, I'm afraid. A pilot who died after his plane crashed during a mission to dump water on the fires from the air.
Robyn Curnow has more.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN INTERNTATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fires are still burning here in the Australian bush. Firefighters still battling to control some of the blazes. Above our heads, helicopters have been rotating still constantly in the air water bombing some of the fires here.
That's the immediate risk, the immediate danger to homes and to lives is over for the moment, say officials, that's because these gusts of winds have died down. It's much cooler here. But there's still a long, hot dry summer ahead, so Australians should not be complacent, say the officials.
In terms of the causes of these fires, it's not just the unseasonable weather. Also, we are hearing that a military exercise involving explosives was one of the causes of one of the big fires here in the Blue Mountains, igniting dry bush land a week ago.
Also, we hear on Thursday an 8-year-old was found trying to set fires. So it had been a combination of arson, these military accidents as well as the weather that has kept these firefighters busy.
Australians have been warned to be vigilant.
Robyn Curnow, CNN, in the Blue Mountains, Australia.
ANDERSON: Live from London, this is CNN and Connect the World. Coming up, details on what could be a big break in the search to find the birth parents of this girl found in Greece.
And after the break why this footballer is calling for urgent action against Russian fans. This is CNN.
ANDERSON: You're watching Connect the world live from London. I'm Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Now Manchester City's star Yaya Toure has called on UEFA to take action on racism. The Ivory Coast international says he suffered racist abuse from Russian fans at a game in Moscow on Wednesday night. He says he heard racist chants and monkey noises from the home fans.
The Moscow club, CSKA challenges his claims.
I'm joined by Alex Thomas who has been following this story. He's with me now in the studio.
What are the details on this at this point? I know there's some claims and counterclaims going on here, aren't there?
ALEX THOMAS, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and the first thing coming from the player himself, Yaya Toure, who really has turned into one of the biggest names in the sport. Used to play for Barcelona. Went to Manchester City. Helped them win England's world famous Premier League. African footballer. And he said he can hear monkey noises coming from the CSKA Moscow fans, or certainly a section of them. And Manchester City have lodged a former complaint with UEFA.
And since then, Europe's governing body for football has launched a disciplinary proceedings against CSKA Moscow.
But as you quite rightly said, Becky, they have staunchly said that they didn't hear the racist chanting that Yaya claimed to hear. And he's calling for some very severe punishments.
He's just capturing that mood of anger amongst certain black footballers in the game right now who are saying enough of words, let's hear action. And this is what Yaya Toure had to say after the game.
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YAYA TOURE, MANCHESTER UNITED MIDFIELDER: I hope that we change it. I hope that we get big sunshine (ph), you know, because you have to ban them some stadium or ban some club for a couple of years. I don't know. You have to do something about it. I always will continue with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS: Talking about a ban for a couple of years, Becky.
As I said, all the reports in this morning's British press, particularly we're talking about how angry he was, although he seemed pretty calm in that interview with Manchester City there in-house television station.
And CSKA Moscow since then have responded as the day has gone on saying one of the two UEFA officials that give a report into their superiors at European governing body headquarters didn't hear any racist chanting. And part of a club statement read this -- let's take a look at this now...
ANDERSON: We don't have that, I think.
THOMAS: No? OK. He was -- they were basically making the point that they don't understand why Yaya Toure made these claims, because they couldn't here anything. And if you look at their record -- although other Russian clubs have a poor record of this sort of thing, their record is very good. There have never been any formal complaints of racism.
ANDERSON: It's a story, of course, that we are unfortunately all too familiar with. I don't have to remind you, but perhaps let's remind our viewers, that racism in footblal has hit the headlines a lot lately. Back in 2011, English Premier League players Luis Suarez and John Terry both accused of racist abuse towards other players. Both got match bans and heavy fines, of course. And although Terry was later cleared of any criminal charges.
European championships in Ukraine, Poland 2012 disrupted by several incidents of crowd trouble and racism. Russian and Spain fined after abuse from their supporters.
Fast forward to January this year and A.C. Milan's Kevin Prince Boateng walked off the pitch taking his whole team with him after hearing racist chants from the crowd.
You rightly point out that this is not the first time that we have heard accusations about Russian fans using racist chanting. So, what are UEFA and FIFA going to do about this, because at this point, it's sort of all in flux isn't it?
ANDERSON: Yeah. And of all those incidents, the real line in the sand was Kevin Prince Boateng walking off during a friendly game for Milan, but booting the ball into the stands and saying enough is enough.
And that what was really sparked probably FIFA's biggest step. And when he world governing body gets criticized a lot, one thing we can applaud them for is their setting up of the anti-racism task force, which is headed up by Jeffrey Webb who is the president for the CONCACAF region in the Caribbean, North American soccer. And they've laid out some very stringent measures that they want to hold the world governing body to.
But, still it's taken awhile to really put those measures in place. The reason being, they want all the confederations below FIFA: the UEFA's the CONCACAFs, the South American regions, Asia, Africa all to be singing from the same hymn sheet so that sanctions are the same across the board.
In the meantime, racism still happens. A black fooballer is saying, hey we know you're trying to take this seriously, but it's still words, it still looks good on paper.
The referee last night, for example, could have stopped the game and he didn't.
ANDERSON: How do UEFA, or perhaps we should talk about how we would sort of respond to this, you get someone like Luis Suarez who says, look, in South America where I come from the common (inaudible) would not be considered racist, but it is apparently racist when he says what he said here.
How are FIFA going to work out a sort of one-size fits all racism policy? That's going to be tough.
THOMAS: Yeah. And in some places difficult as we've seen in the case in Italy recently where very traditional regional banter, if you like, for example taking the (inaudible) the Neapolitans, as the Inter Milan fans did recently suddenly had Serie A club owners up in arms that the sanctions were too tough, that that's not racism, it's something else.
And there are so many subtle levels of discrimination, but I think just -- I think FIFA can keep it simple by just saying this old fashioned racism, bananas on the pitch, monkey noises, those are clear to hear and you can say that it wrong and sanctions have to be imposed.
And I guess the one concern is are fans doing in on purpose pretending -- masquerading as fans of a club or a country to get them banned. But I think that's the kind of medicine they're going to have to take just in order to stamp this out, because it's been sort of bubbling up for ages and it's enough Is enough.
ANDERSON: Enough already.
Alex Thomas with us tonight.
The latest world news headlines, as you would expect here at the bottom of the hour on CNN. Plus, authorities could be closer to solving the mysterious case of Maria. This woman says she may be the mother of the little blonde girl discovered in a Greek Roma camp. More on her story is ahead.
And wiretapping, computer hacking, what's next? Well, we'll show you how to become a secret agent in this age of digital espionage.
And ever wondered what goes on behind palace walls? Well, feed your imagination with some very unofficial and fictional family photos of the new Prince George. All in good fun, of course.
ANDERSON: This is Connect the World. The top stories this hour.
Germany says the U.S. must now reestablish trust among European allies after the latest allegations of spying. Chancellor Angela Merkel says that it claims the NSA eavesdropped on her mobile phone conversations are true, it is completely unacceptable.
A US official says two men have been abducted from their ship off the coast of Nigeria. The captain and chief engineer were seized when their oil supply vessel came under attack on Wednesday in the Gulf of Guinea.
Police in Portugal have reopened their investigation into the case of Madeline McCann. The three-year-old British girl disappeared from a Portuguese resort town six years ago. Portuguese and British police are chasing fresh leads.
And in Australia, a pilot has died after his water-bombing plane crashed as he tried to battle the bush fires. More than 60 wildfires are still raging in the state of New South Wales. Officials, though, do say the immediate danger is now over.
It could be a big break in the massive search for the birth parents of a little girl called Maria. This Bulgarian woman told reporters today that she could be the mother. She says she gave away her baby girl to a Greek couple in 2009 because she couldn't afford to feed her.
Well, Maria was discovered last week during a raid on a Roma camp near Larissa in Greece. Karl Penhaul following developments tonight from Larissa, and he joins us now live. Firstly, what do we know on the Bulgarian side of this story?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESONDENT: Well, on the Bulgarian side, what we've heard tonight from the Bulgarian state security service is that they've been combing Roma camps across that country to see if there's a DNA match for Maria's parents.
This couple, as we know, have come forward, and from what they say, now DNA tests will be carried out on that couple tomorrow to see if, in fact, these are Maria's birth parents.
We, in fact, though, have come back just a short while ago from the camp where Maria has grown up here in Greece. It was difficult to get the trust of the Romas, but after a lot of talking, they allowed us into the camp and described and showed to us some of the conditions in which Maria grew up.
PENHAUL (voice-over): Roma children at the railings of the ramshackle community they call home. Across the way, a Roma mother walks her sons to the gates of the local school. Classes start around 8:30.
And I meet these youngsters playing in the street. They're about the same age as Maria, the mystery blonde girl discovered in this camp during a raid by Greek police last week. This Roma couple, Christos Salis and Eleftheria, are in custody, charged with kidnapping Maria. They've reportedly been raising at least 14 children.
Their defense lawyers say they took Maria into their home after her biological mother, from Bulgaria, was unable to look after her. Residents here back those assertions.
"Maria used to play here with all the other children and go to the store with her mum. Maria was not hidden away," Maria Challis (ph) tells me. "Her own mother gave her away, and Eleftheria was enchanted by Maria's beauty. She shared the food for her own children with Maria," she adds.
Prosecutors say Maria, who is estimated to be five or six years old, was living in squalid conditions. Such allegations, repeated on the TV news, make Katerina Tsakiris weep in anger at what she calls police and media lies. She knew Maria well.
"The girl was raised very well. She used to bring her here nicely dressed. She wasn't skinny but well-fed. Eleftheria took more care of her than her own children," she says.
Unemployment is rampant in this Roma community amid Greece's economic meltdown. It's clear many families are desperately poor. The prefabricated metal homes set aside for Roma families were only intended to be temporary, but have now been here for a decade. By comparison, Maria seems to have lived in more comfortable surroundings, judging by this video showing her bedroom.
Vassiliki Tsakiris says she knew her adopted family well. "It's a good family, I've known them for many years. We practically grew up together. Christos used to sell potatoes and fruit, and she would come here for coffee and bring the little girl," she says.
Media coverage in Maria's case has enraged this community. Many refused to talk to journalists. Some European media are portraying the Roma as social outcasts and heavily involved in crime. Some media have even suggested home videos showing Maria at parties is evidence she was trained to dance in the street and beg for money.
British and Romanian police busted a huge child trafficking ring run by Roma gangs out of Romania in 2010. But residents in Farsala say Maria was abandoned by her real parents, not trafficked. "We have never had such a case here before. Maria is the first of the kind. We Roma have been living here for 50 or 60 years. Nothing like this has happened," she says.
For now, an Athens-based charity is looking after Maria, and until the mystery of why she was living in this camp is cleared up, all the Roma families here say they feel they're on trial.
PENHAUL: This evening, we managed to talk to the defense lawyer for the Greek couple that are in custody over this case, and he says he really helps that the woman in Bulgaria who has come forward proves to be the real mother because he feels that that will get the Greek couple off the hook on the charges of kidnapping, Becky.
ANDERSON: Karl, it's clear that this community feels very disturbed by the way that they have been treated. They feel very discriminated against.
Are there any members of the community that you have met who might provide any sense of why the Greeks themselves might discriminate against the Roma? I'm trying to get a sense of whether the community themselves understands why at times they might be discriminated against.
PENHAUL: In the many years that I've worked as a journalist, Becky, I've worked with Roma communities in Britain, in Spain, and now in Greece, and across the board they say that they feel discriminated against. They choose to live on the outside because they want to maintain their culture, but that also means that they're marginalized from society and seen as suspicious.
Now, of course, old wives' tales and old stereotypes will suggest that Roma or Gypsies, as people sometimes call them, are thieves, and in this case, they've even been accused of child snatching. But they themselves say that yes, sometimes there are crime problems in Roma communities, but this is no worse than in wider society as a whole.
And in fact, the European human rights watchdog body, the European Council, has issued a very unusual statement, and they have really issued a stiff warning about the damaging media reports that have come out stereotyping once again the Roma as criminals.
And the European council itself saying there is really no basis for that. In fact, crime in the Roma communities is no worse than anywhere else in Europe, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, all right. Thank you for that. We've -- we're going to continue this discussion with our next guest, but for the time being, thank you. Historically referred to as Gypsies, of course, the Roma migrated to Europe from India more than 1,000 years ago. That was from India. Now they are Europe's largest ethnic minority.
The EU estimates that between 10 and 12 million liver there, mostly in south and eastern Europe. However, exact numbers are difficult to come by, which is why it's believed that anywhere between 25 to 70 percent of the Roma population were murdered by the Nazis during World War II.
They are still seen as second-class citizens in much of Europe. The EU says one in three are unemployed and 90 percent live below the poverty line. But our next guest says it's an old story of persecution against the Roma, but he calls recent cases a new kind of escalation.
Rudko Kawczynksi is the president of the European Roma and Travelers Forum, he joins us tonight from Strasbourg in France. Sir, why do you think things have changed for the worse of late?
RUDKO KAWCZYNKSI, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN ROMA AND TRAVELERS FORUM: First of all, good evening. We have to state that we have a deeply-rooted anti- Gypsies all over Europe. It's a tradition to treat Gypsies and to see Gypsies and their stereotypes as nomads, as people who are stealing blond children, who are begging, who are really -- some sort of a criminal race.
This was also the excuse for the Germans -- for the German Nazis to kill, as you said, more than a half a million of our people in the German concentration camp. So, there is something that we are really facing. It's similar to anti-Semitism. So we have a huge amount of people who are victim to anti-Gypsies, and there is very anti-Gypsies in the society.
ANDERSON: Yes, when I've done this story before and spoken to people in the community, they say that they have witnessed ignorance, intolerance -- sorry, hatred and hostility and fear.
ANDERSON: There are also those who admitted to me that their very own communities can be fairly ignorant and intolerant and at times, members of the Roma community themselves have said that they don't integrate into communities.
Should the Roma be forced to integrate more, do you think, into mainstream society so that this intolerance and stigmatization might not happen going forward or might be lessened somewhat, at least? Or improved?
KAWCZYNKSI: First of all, we have to say there have been more than 90 percent in work, in labor, and after the so-called revolution and changing to democracy, the situation of Roma had dramatically changed to the worse. So we now have today, nowadays more than 90 percent unemployment.
More than 50,000 ethnic Roma settlements, ghettos, shantytowns. They are comparable with those in South Africa. And this in the middle of the richest area in the whole world, Europe, who are promoting democracy and human rights, and we are facing the scene that everyday human rights of Roma are violated. The children are taken away.
And what we are facing today is some sort of -- we know since many, many years, more than it can be some sort of witch hunting and irrational growing of old stereotypes.
ANDERSON: OK, the line to me, certainly, into my ear between you and I is not particularly good, but I can still just hear you.
I want to get your response to the story in Dublin, if you will. How do you respond to a child being taken from a Roma community only to be given back on the understanding that the couple who said they were her parents in fact, indeed, are her parents after DNA tests?
KAWCZYNKSI: Well, especially with those case in Ireland, I think we had some similar cases in France, in Germany, all over Europe. Suddenly, after this case in Greece. But thank God, we have something that we call today this genetic tests, that we have DNA tests.
So, a few years ago, those people had been sentenced to death in certain parts of Europe. So, there is a common history on Roma who are supposed to steal blond children. Today, as I said, there was luck that we have this new evidence, like a DNA test. In other words, we can prove that those children belong to their families.
By the way, my -- I have grandchildren, five grandchildren who are also blond. And now since several days, they're facing the same problems. People are looking at my daughter-in-law, who has dark skin, and it's so irrational.
It's unbelievable that in 21st century Europe, this can happen, that people are again falling back into the middle ages, these evil times of the Inquisition, and exactly this happens. So we see that everything can come back, so we are fearing, we Roma in Europe are fearing that sooner or later this --- we are -- these happenings that we had during the second World War, it can pop today.
KAWCZYNKSI: There are politicians in Hungary who are openly demanding new concentration camps for the Roma. It's unbelievable that the majority is silent and the media is playing a very, very awful role in that game.
ANDERSON: And with that, we're going to leave it there, but we thank you very much, indeed, for joining us on CNN tonight. And I apologize if the sound was a little iffy on that important story, though, to discuss.
Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Up next, if you've ever dreamt of becoming Iron Man, you may be in luck. We're going to look at a bionic arm that could give you super strength.
And after the recent spate of hacking scandals, I'm going to learn how to defend my data with some training from a spy specialist live in this studio for you coming back after this.
ANDERSON: Well, if you have ever dreamt of having super-human strength, this next invention could be for you.
ELIZABETH BEATTIE, ENGINER, TITAN ARM: We are students at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. We met during our undergraduate mechanical engineering coursework. We're interested in the intersection between medicine and engineering, developing a device that could potentially have an impact on someone's life.
The Titan Arm is a powered upper-body exoskeleton. It straps to a user's right arm and it can be used to lift heavy objects that the user wouldn't normally be able to lift.
NICHOLAS MCGILL, ENGINEER, TITAN ARM: We've estimated that we could add up to 40 pounds lifting capability. For the purposes of our demo, we'll be using a 20-pound weight. I'm gripping it with my own wrist, and this allows me to have a better range of motion.
Just engage the break. With this, you'll hear a ratchet sound. Now it's statically holding the weight and the motor's also not doing any work. I can do this all day with a 20-pound weight. I'm holding the weight, and the arm's kind of doing the rest of the work for me.
BEATTIE: We were contacted by the filmmakers and the producers of a movie about an exoskeleton, which is called "Elysium." They were very interested in our project because in the movie, Matt Damon actually wears an exoskeleton, and he's kind of the superhero of this movie.
This technology is too far off from being integrated into an everyday environment. Definitely not on the same scale as what Matt Damon is wearing, but definitely on a scale that can help people.
In particular, people who have, perhaps, have muscular-skeletal disorders or need help rehabilitating after an injury. And those working in lifting scenarios, someone in a warehouse who's repeatedly lifting heavy packages.
The three of us are very excited to meet JD Albert because he's an engineer, he's an inventor, inventing e-ink, which is used in Kindle and the Nook and tablets.
JD ALBERT, ENTREPRENEURIAL ENGINEER: Can you show me how the control works?
MCGILL: With this controller you'd imagine a nurse in physical therapy could be helping the user actuate their limbs.
MCGILL: And so when I do this, now I've got my static load holding.
ALBERT: All right.
MCGILL: Whereas your warehouse worker, obviously, we'd have a different form of controls for lifting items and carrying them.
ALBERT: And in terms of freedom of mobility and moving your arm around, you can move it everywhere you need to go?
MCGILL: Yes. We are pretty proud of the shoulder we created, so this really embraces range of motion and having freedom in your workspace.
ALBERT: My first impression upon seeing the Titan Arm was that I was really impressed that undergraduate students were producing a prototype of that level.
MCGILL: What do you think about the weight?
ALBERT: It's OK. Certainly here is always going to be better for something like this, but because it's a structural, it's going to weigh something.
I think the big question would be whether some of these parts could be moved away from metal, whether you could go to glass, reinforced plastic, or something like that.
I think the biggest thing they really need to do is exactly figure out what market they're pursuing. So, they talked about helping out a factory worker, but they've also talked about physical therapy and rehab. Those are two very different markets, and basically, they're going to end up with two totally different products for those markets.
I do think they have what it takes to pull it off. I think what I've seen so far is a team of very dedicated engineers that are pulling together a pretty wide array of disciplines.
BEATTIE: The four of us definitely want to use our engineering tool kits in order to better the quality of life of those around us. I think that's one of the things that technology really has the power to do.
ANDERSON: Coming up after this short break on CONNECT THE WORLD, I look at what the options are for an alternative career as an international spy. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC - "JAMES BOND THEME")
ANDERSON (voice-over): From James Bond to Jason Bourne --
KIEFER SUTHERLAND AS JACK BAUER, "24" (whispering): I have absolutely nothing to lose.
ANDERSON: -- to Jack Bauer, we are fascinated by the shadowy world of secret agents. So, what would it take to turn me into Agent Anderson?
ANDERSON: Well, I've got a man who can, here. With all this talk of spying, wiretapping, phone-hacking, and whatever else this week, I thought it's high time I protected myself. Joining me with some tips on how to be more clued-up is Paul Beaumont, rodeo and communications editor from the "Eye Spy Intelligence" magazine.
So, I don't want to be snooped on when I'm making calls, ala allegations with Angela Merkel. So, how do I prevent that?
PAUL BEAUMONT, "EYE SPY INTELLIGENCE" MAGAZINE: Well, for a start, I'd get rid of this.
ANDERSON: Get rid of my mobile phone.
BEAUMONT: Get rid of the mobile phone.
ANDERSON: I can't do that, Paul, come on.
BEAUMONT: No. But if you don't want to get rid of it --
BEAUMONT: -- and people around you are with their mobile phones and you're a bit suspicious, then these are always a very good thing.
ANDERSON: What's that?
BEAUMONT: That would jam a cell phone.
ANDERSON: That will jam a cell phone. It's not very James Bond-like, is it? Show me some gadgets which are a bit more sexy than that.
BEAUMONT: Well, how sexy can you be?
ANDERSON: I want to be a spy!
BEAUMONT: Right. Concealed messages?
ANDERSON: Ooh, like it.
BEAUMONT: There you go.
BEAUMONT: There's your --
ANDERSON: See that? Looks like a can of something inside. That's for me,that can?
BEAUMONT: There, you can have it if you want.
BEAUMONT: It's probably worth nothing.
ANDERSON: A whole load of other gadgets as well.
BEAUMONT: Yes, yes.
ANDERSON: What's this?
BEAUMONT: That one, if you look in there, that's actually a camera.
BEAUMONT: And it will -- it will actually start moving or start taking footage --
BEAUMONT: -- with movement around the --
ANDERSON: That's amazing. So, a little camera just in here. That looks like a bolt. What is it?
BEAUMONT: It's a very heavy bolt --
BEAUMONT: -- and wouldn't look out of place on a railway line.
ANDERSON: No, sure.
BEAUMONT: But it's another concealment device.
ANDERSON: Oh, my goodness sakes.
BEAUMONT: And if you like to look at that, that is a message, a radio schedule of some sort.
ANDERSON: Ooh, I see. OK. So that could be something I picked up as I was wandering across a railway crossing --
BEAUMONT: It could be.
ANDERSON: -- somewhere in the world.
BEAUMONT: It could be --
ANDERSON: With a message --
BEAUMONT: -- left especially for you.
ANDERSON: Left especially for me. What else have you got here?
BEAUMONT: Well, I'm afraid it's -- cameras.
BEAUMONT: Miniature cameras as used --
ANDERSON: That's a pretty popular one, isn't it?
BEAUMONT: Yes, Minox, yes.
BEAUMONT: It's a well-known make.
BEAUMONT: Seen in many films and that bit.
BEAUMONT: That is the digital version.
ANDERSON: I feel as if I'm not a very sort of trendy spy here. I feel a bit old-fashioned. Is that just because of my age, do you think?
BEAUMONT: It might be the age of the equipment or me.
ANDERSON: I'm not going to be the best Bond in the world. Go on. Agent Anderson --
BEAUMONT: This is an older --
ANDERSON: -- is pathetic, really. Yes?
BEAUMONT: This is an older camera that uses film.
BEAUMONT: And it's quite easy to use and it's -- generic.
ANDERSON: Right. Are things improving -- is this sort of equipment that the NSA might be using, or any other spying organization around the world?
BEAUMONT: Might have used.
ANDERSON: Might have used.
ANDERSON: Again, it's a bit old-fashioned.
BEAUMONT: Everything is now come into digital --
BEAUMONT: -- miniaturization, surface-mount components, this sort of thing. Everything's just getting smaller --
ANDERSON: I had a guy on this -- earlier on in this show who said unless you chuck your phone away, quite frankly, and your computer away, you will not be immune. Nothing can be encrypted to the extent that nobody can snoop on you. But you can -- there are things that you can do. But you say it's so sophisticated these days, is it?
BEAUMONT: Indeed. Yes. Absolutely.
BEAUMONT: The sort of code that is unbreakable --
BEAUMONT: -- would be a one-time pad. Looking at this thing, which is --
ANDERSON: Yes. An old radio, an old transistor radio.
BEAUMONT: Yes. Number stations.
BEAUMONT: Generically, the numbers would be printed out by hand --
BEAUMONT: -- and applied to a one time pad and a message would be -- and there would only be two copies of that one-time pad, one at the sending end, one at the receiving end. That's it. However, they've next got into the 21st century --
ANDERSON: Yes. Amazing.
BEAUMONT: -- the numbers go into computers and it's automatically converted.
ANDERSON: I don't think I'm going to be a very good 21st century spy. I think I should've been changing my career last century. Thank you, Paul Beaumont --
BEAUMONT: My pleasure.
ANDERSON: -- this evening. Just before we go, Parting Shots this evening. Buckingham Palace expected to release new photos of baby Prince George in the next hour. So, while the world waits the official snaps, one British photographer is offering a make-believe look at life behind the palace walls. Jeanne Moos explains.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For once, handsome Prince Harry kissing his grandmother, the queen, was just the opening act for the new star. Three-month-old Prince George was carried into the royal chapel by his dad, and there was a whole lot of jiggling going on as Prince William displayed his son. Even the royal guard seemed to be jiggling.
But after the baptism being carried out by his mom, Prince George seemed to sedate. A lot more sedate than this Prince George, who kept spitting up as he posed for pictures, even pictures of the queen taking his picture. And Prince William changing his diaper, and Kate, William, and George playing rub-a-dub-dub in the tub.
Wait a minute, the palace would never release these!
ALISON JACKSON, FILMMAKER, PHOTOGRAPHER: And I have about five or six different Prince Georges.
MOOS: Alison Jackson is known for her celebrity lookalike photos, and she's been having a field day with the royals.
JACKSON: This Prince William I've got, there is only one of him, and he is fantastic, he really is.
JACKSON: I have about five Kate lookalikes.
MOOS: Alison uses an 82-year-old ball of energy to play the queen.
MOOS: The photographer says these photos aren't about the royals, they're about us and how we feel about the famous.
JACKSON: All this obsession, world gone crazy with celebrity.
MOOS: We should have known something was amiss when we saw Prince William and Catherine pose half naked. There's something intimate about these fake photos. Dirt on the sole of the prince's foot danging out of the tub. Of course, the actual royals don't comment on things like this.
JACKSON: Well, I hope they find it amusing.
MOOS: She's been doing this for a decade, posing lookalikes ranging from David Beckham to Kim Kardashian, Kanye West, and their baby North West. Alison's currently out west in LA, shopping for more lookalikes.
JACKSON: And if anybody looks like Miley Cyrus, that would be fantastic.
MOOS: She sells the queen diapering the royal baby on a tote bag, the prince doing diaper duty on a t-shirt, and then there is this.
MOOS (on camera): And what are we calling that thing?
JACKSON: Well. A milk man-boob.
MOOS (voice-over): Fit for a prince. And you be the judge of how alike this little lookalike looks.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD. Good night.