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Mother, 4 Children Stabbed to Death

Aired October 29, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a teenager is accused of trying to burn down his house with his parents still inside. Why?

CALLER: Help! Help! Our house is on fire.

PINSKY: The behavior bureau looks for answers.

And another viral confession after this man was run over and killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony, that`s your pipe right there?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you were the one driving the car?


PINSKY: Plus, the latest on the New York family slaughtered by their cousin.

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host is Sirius XM host Jenny Hutt.

And coming up, a teen who is accused of trying to kill his parents by burning their house down with them in it.

And, Jenny --

JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Yes, Dr. Drew. This is not one of the things that I typically worry about.

PINSKY: He`s an honor student.

HUTT: That`s concerning. I have one of those.

PINSKY: Well, you never know. I`m just saying.

But, first, new information about the man accused of using a meat cleaver to murder a mom and her four little children. Take a look at this.


REPORTER: What do you have to say?

REPORTER: The 25-year-old seen leaving the borough park station Sunday, sporting a police jumpsuit, in exchange for the bloody clothes detective say he was wearing when he was arrested. He is accused of using a kitchen knife to viciously stab 37-year-old Qiao Zhen Li, and her children, 9-year-old Linda, 7-year-old Amy, 5-year-old Kevin, and Baby William, just a year old.

Li had apparently noticed Chen had been acting strangely. Investigators say she tried contacting her husband at the restaurant where he worked Saturday night, but could not reach him. It was Lee`s sister and brother-in-law who would later discover the gruesome scene.

Investigators are narrowing down what may have triggered Chen to kill.


PINSKY: Just so sad.

Joining us Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, also, Anna Yum, defense attorney and former prosecutor. I`ve got HLN host Lynn Berry, and Brian Copeland, KGO radio talk show host, author of "Not A Genuine Black Man."

Lynn, this story takes your breath away when you read and see the footage. What else do we know about this man?

LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: And when you see the picture of this beautiful family. And police are saying that they actually have a confession, and the motive here they say is one word: jealousy.

And that is so hard to imagine, considering the gruesome details here. Let`s keep in mind, this was a guy who was in this country illegally, had very few resources. He was apparently jealous that this family had so much, according to him. He lived there for a week and mom was expressing concern that he was there, apparently asking him to leave at one point, trying to kick him out. And the details that we`re learning today are even more gruesome.

Apparently, when she tried to call that relative she was overheard on the phone screaming he`s coming at me with a knife and the phone line goes dead. Another relative goes and finds the gruesome scene. She says he`s standing there among all of the bodies.

And I will warn you, it is disturbing to hear this. But three of the bodies were beheaded. Mom`s fingers had been cut off because he used that meat cleaver and she was trying to protect herself.

This was a guy who apparently had a gambling problem or he got something that he was doing with friends, also smoking pot with them, and a temper. He apparently busted up his wrist one time pounding on a gambling machine, one of those, you know, what`s the word I`m thinking of, a slot machine type thing.

PINSKY: Gambling machine.

BERRY: Just a complete, disturbing, every detail after the next is more disturbing than the last.

PINSKY: Segun, you normally advise us to, caution us against rushing to any sort of, what?


PINSKY: Condemnation.


PINSKY: You say you feel the same way about this guy?

ODUOLOWU: No. You know what, Dr. Drew, what scares me the most is that this is just the tip of the iceberg to me. Like there are two Americas it seems. There`s the America that we live in, and this shadow world of undocumented, illegal aliens, illegal immigrants.

And what you`re going to start to find is that a lot of these people may not be here for hard work or to better themselves. They could be criminal, criminally insane, psychologically infirm. And what bothers me is that we keep doing more and more of these stories. We keep seeing the worst of our society every day on television and in the worst ways.

I mean, he beheaded children. There is no -- there is no temperance that I need to, you know, to try and figure out what was wrong with him. A 25-year-old took out violence and vengeance and jealousy upon children. Throw away the key on this guy. I don`t need temperance.

PINSKY: Fair enough.

COPELAND: No question about it. None.

PINSKY: Brian, go ahead.

COPELAND: I was going to say, there`s no question about it one way or the other. He should be locked up and the key thrown away. If he`s found that he`s mentally ill, he should never draw another breath air as a free man, because he`s locked up in a mental institution.

If it`s found that in fact, he was sane and aware of what it was he did and by all indications -- I mean, there`s one story I read today one of the motives could have been that he had been burned by a girlfriend. He paid a $70,000 dowry for a girlfriend who was going to marry him supposedly and she took off. He was stewing about that. Witnesses say that he was trying to kill her.



ANNA YUM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, let me say this. As a defense attorney, obviously I would advise whoever`s handling this case to get him shrunk, and that`s what see in our industry, to get him mentally evaluated immediately, to see if he was so sick that day and didn`t understand the consequences of his actions, or if he didn`t know what he was doing wrong. Let me say that --


PINSKY: Everybody`s mic off except Anna right now. All mics off, except Anna. Go.

YUM: This case makes my blood boil, OK? I`m going to tell you my honest opinion. I would not take this case, OK, because I come from an immigrant working class family. My parents immigrated here. I know the blood, sweat and tears associated with them trying to give me a better life and them trying to give me the life they didn`t have.

This monster -- and that`s what he is -- this monster robbed the victim`s husband, the victim`s father of an opportunity to pursue the quintessential American dream and for these precious young babies to grow up and to have a life.

PINSKY: You know what? I must say something, Segun is on to something. There`s some sensibility that gets violated by someone, I don`t care in what condition they`re in. When they`re decapitating children --

HUTT: Right.

PINSKY: Even an insanity defense has no meaning. Yes, I wish to God this happened sooner and this hadn`t happened to anybody. But once you go there -- Segun, tell me that again. Don`t you agree it`s some sort of threshold after which no defense is appropriate?

ODOULOWU: There are some things that are so morally repugnant, so offensive to our idea of what should happen in civilized society that, Anna, as a defense attorney when you say that he should get shrunk, that we should find out what type of mental state --

HUTT: That`s not --

ODOULOWU: Dr. Drew, what mental state can possibly exist where you are taking a meat cleaver and decapitating children?


PINSKY: Go ahead, Jenny.

ODOULOWU: There are some things so monstrous that we do not ever try to -- it`s not a matter of understanding. It`s a matter of making sure that we must make sure this never happens again, that the person who perpetrated this is never seen from again.

PINSKY: Jenny?

HUTT: Yes. OK, look, I think what she was say something that if he was rendered criminally insane to make him incapable of having the mental state to knowingly commit the crime, meaning, he didn`t know the difference between right and wrong, perhaps there`s criminal insanity, however, that`s not the case. There`s just not way. This was an angry monster who violently took out children by decapitating them and cut the mother`s fingers off as he`s coming at her with the knife.

And then the whole thing is so horrific and outrageous, not only do we lock him up and throw away the key, we lock him up, we string him up and I want to do all sorts of violent things to him because this --


ODOULOWU: I don`t believe in terms like string him up.

PINSKY: I agree with you. I`m with you on that.

So, Anna, here we are, Anna, we are brought to the place of, as Segun, quote with Segun, repugnance, more repugnance. We don`t care if he didn`t know right or wrong at the moment. He should have gotten help earlier.

It`s one thing if he sort of went wild and did something impulsive and inappropriate, but he systematically destroyed, just takes apart a family, with an antecedent history of some questionable behavior, isn`t it hard to make an insanity defense for somebody like this?

YUM: Well, not necessarily, Dr. Drew, because I think that`s where the doctors come in. And there is a difference between the moral liability and the legal liability here. And once the doctors evaluate him and if they really can say that at that time he didn`t know the difference, Dr. Drew, then there could be a potential not guilty by reason of insanity defense.

Now it`s not easy. Let me just say in New York in the last decade, there were 6,000 murders and only seven were successful with respect to that defense. So, I`m not saying it`s easy.

But this is a question I have for you, Dr. Drew. Now what if he didn`t come to America? What if he was in China? Do you think he is a ticking time bomb? Do you think that something like this was capable that he had violent tendencies that just went unnoticed that he could have done something violent there? I mean, is it a matter of circumstance here that this family was so victimized by this monster? Or do you think this could have happened?

ODOULOWU: Why are we trying to understand a monster?

PINSKY: Well, it`s OK to ask those questions. There`s nothing repugnant about asking the question. And I think the stress of living in a culture that you perhaps don`t understand, particularly if you have psychotic liabilities where you`re not really connected to the world very well, it could get very stressful and symptoms could get worse.

Therefore, these folks should have helped this guy either go back to a culture where he could do a little better or we get him some help.

Of course, he`s undocumented. It`s so complicated to get somebody like this help because he`s afraid he`s going to get deported if he goes to try to get help.

So, it is -- we failed on many levels on this one. But I think I`m in Segun`s court on this, is that it goes to a threshold that defies conversation.

I`m going to get a behavior bureau in here to take a closer look at this guy and see if they feel any differently.

And later, I`ve got a 16 year old boy, an honor roll student, there he is, he tried to burn his parents` house down and locked them in their room with a rope.

We`ll get to that after this.



PINSKY: Don`t you think it`s possible that this guy`s been sick for a long time? We hear stories of him smoking excessively outside of his house which is something schizophrenics do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy was bouncing from place to place. He was obviously unstable. He did not get crazy over the last 48 hours.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt.

Jenny, I want to give you a quick tweet here regarding our last segment. It is from (INAUDIBLE), "Sorry, this is death penalty big time for all you bleeding hearts out there."

People`s passions are inflamed by this guy.

HUTT: I agree.

PINSKY: He apparently murdered his relatives, a mom and four children with either a cleaver, or a butcher knife, something horrific, the details as they are coming out, are stomach turning to say the least. His behavior, more about that, possible cues, clues, maybe even something people are calling a motive, to call what a motive would be for this kind of thing is -- it doesn`t make sense. To me, it means mental illness.

Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. I`ve got Casey Jordan, psychologist and criminal profiler. Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Jennifer Keitt, life coach and radio host, and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."

Police say the suspect killed the family because, quote, "They had too much." I think the idea of there even being a motive that that`s rational is overthinking this.

Casey, would you know what I`m saying? I mean, this kind of insanity doesn`t really have a motive that`s logical.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: No, and insanity is probably the word that comes to everybody`s mind. I mean, in criminology, Dr. Drew, we have a theory for this. It`s called institutional anomie. It`s based on the book called "Crime and the American Dream."

But we see it result in white collar crime and fraud and theft. These people who think others have too much and want and they`re envious.

What you really have here is that envy being, if you will, just a causal factor in his psychosis, that blew up so big in his mind that caused him to pick up a knife.

PINSKY: So, help people understand what you mean by that, because you and I have seen psychotic people. The average person may not understand when they`re looking at psychotic person. So, there`s a psychological thing operating, but the way it manifests is just like a seizure of the mind?

JORDAN: Absolutely. It would be like a fug state.

The fact that he started with the mother and continued to the children who were surely blameless in all rational thought, in his envy, shows that it was truly psychosis. And that`s just an excuse for why he acted.

PINSKY: Now how about, do you agree with me -- I`m going to stay with Casey for just a second. Before I get to the rest of you, I was watching the look on Danine and even Sam and Jennifer`s face, as you guys were preparing, and there was a solemn, an intensity in all you guys. So, I know you`ve got a lot to say.

Let me ask the one thing -- Casey, the fact for me it`s crossed some sort of moral threshold that I can`t tolerate, does that affect how this case is going to be adjudicated?

JORDAN: No, because public opinion really does sway the way things work. And New York uses the McNaughton Rule, the fact which means, does he know the difference between right and wrong? Can he appreciate what he did was wrong?

What works in his favor for an insanity plea is if he did not run away. What works against him is the fact that he said, "I am done" when he was confronted, which means he knew, he knew what he was doing was wrong in the eyes of society. So, I -- there`s no way that insanity is going to work in mind in the state of New York, and I think you`re going to see him in prison for life.

PINSKY: Danine, have it.

HUTT: Also --

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: There`s nothing worse to me, Dr. Drew, as I`ve said numerous times, than the murder of children or crimes that involves children. Nothing strikes me worse to my core than that.

PINSKY: I could see it.

MANETTE: But I do think that there is something to be said for this underlying theme of entitlement that`s going on right now on a larger scale, just because you have it and I can`t work hard for it or play by the rules, I`m going to take it from you -- whether it`s me killing you or stealing it from you or whatever.

PINSKY: Yes, and --

MANETTE: And so, I think whatever label you put on him is made worse by the fact that we have this desire to just take whatever people have and not work for it and not --

PINSKY: I agree, Danine, and Casey gave it a slightly different name. She called it envy, which I think is -- to me, envy is one of the -- for a sane person, it`s one of the worst emotions a human can have, because it`s saying, you have something, that -- because you have it, it diminishes me, so, I got to drag you down or destroy in some way.

Sam, you want to say something.

MANETTE: Not work harder.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I can`t rationalize this for the life of me, Dr. Drew. I`ve been thinking about this story all day. And it absolutely rips my heart out, to think that this mom and her actually died that way. The mom was still alive when her children were killed in front of her, when two of her children were decapitated in front of her.

Btu I just hope this guy gets his in jail. But, Dr. Drew, what I touched upon that we didn`t get to discuss, which is something that is still in my brain, is his behavior immediately afterwards.

So, the neighbors describe him as very cool, calm and collected as he left the home after committing mass murder. But then at the police station, he was the exact opposite.

So it, Casey, or you, or if anybody on our panel can let me know and the people out there, what does that suggest about his mental state? Especially the change in behavior, so drastically.

PINSKY: What was it at the police station?

SCHACHER: He was violent.

MANETTE: Fighting.

SCHACHER: Yes, exact opposite.

PINSKY: Listen, when you`re not connected to reality, you`ve had a giant discharge of aggression, you`re sort of, you`re addled. You don`t know what you`ve done. And all of a sudden people are at you, containing you, you start fighting again. Who knows what you`re thinking?

HUTT: Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Jenny?

HUTT: I just wanted to mention another detail about this, which is also so horrific, he was in the house for only one week with this family. And he was fighting with the children. This 25-year-old was actively arguing with the children, which is what started the fight with the mother. It`s crazy.

JORDAN: Mother was trying to kick him out.

PINSKY: Got to give Jennifer a chance. Last word.

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Yes, I think that the beggar picture here for me also includes extended family. I, too, came from an immigrant type family. My father from the Caribbean. Lots of relatives coming through.

My bigger concern is for families that are right now have relatives. That`s the way that they do things. He was already there. We take people into our homes. How are we going to know when someone is going to snap?

He completely took advantage of a wife and some children. He was -- he didn`t wait for the father to get home. Clearly, to me, he had a plan and a strategy. And he wanted to make this happen.

But the bigger question to me is, what about all those families out there who are taking in cousins and relatives and aunts and uncles? How are we supposed to know the difference between "you`re envious of me when I`m trying to help you bring you here"? That is scary to me. That is really, really scary to me.

PINSKY: And, again, don`t go it alone if you see signs of people behaving bizarrely, responding to internal stimuli, not seeming themselves, even a medical problem can create behavior that is dangerous.

Thank you, panel.

Next up, a 16-year-old boy accused of trying to born his house on fire while his parents were asleep inside and he locks them parents in, ties them in with a rope. I will talk to the sheriff who made the arrest.

Later, a teenager involved in a deadly hit-and-run admits he was wasted and was wasted when he hit and killed a middle aged man with kids. It`s all caught on video. Back in a moment.


PINSKY: Welcome back. Jenny Hutt is my co-host.

A 16-year-old honor student -- I know this freaks you out.

HUTT: It freaks me out.

PINSKY: If he`s honor student, he must be healthy and good.

HUTT: I mean, I would think, right? You don`t worry typically about the kid who`s doing well in school.

PINSKY: Right. And it`s interesting, we don`t know, what I don`t know is whether this kid has had a drop-off in grades before this whole episode, because dropping grades is actually a very, very specific sign of mental trouble.

Well, this kid creeped up to his parents` bedroom, tied their door shut, lights the house on fire, left them to die. The family, the parents fortunately escape, the father jumps from the second story window, breaking both of his legs in the process. The mother was still in the house and she made this 911 call.


OPERATOR: Southern County 911.

SHARRON SIMON: Help! Help! Our house is on fire!

OPERATOR: OK, what type of fire is it?

SIMON: It`s a house fire! Inside a house!

OPERATOR: Is everybody out?


OPERATOR: I need everybody to get out!


OPERATOR: Not everybody`s out.


PINSKY: All right. Now, we have some animation of what investigators suggest happened that night. At 11:30, this kid goes up to the parents` bedroom, ties the door shut, then lights the hallway on fire, takes off, steals his dad`s car and drives away.

Oh, my God!

HUTT: That animation -- first of all, all I can think, later when the mother found out it was him she still worried about him. That`s the thing that makes me sick about this.

PINSKY: So, yes, in a second we`ll have the sheriff on the line who made the arrest, and I want to hear about that episode.

But first I want to get our panel back. It`s Segun, Brian, Anna, and Lynn.

And as I said, joining us by phone, Richard Jones. He is the sheriff in town.

Sheriff, any -- well, let`s go right to that. My understanding is that when you, I guess, made the arrest, how did the parents react?

RICHARD JONES, SHERIFF, BUTLER COUNTY, OHIO (via telephone): The mother wanted to give her son a hug before he left. He -- the son had no remorse. She was worried. He won`t be able to go to school. Will somebody be able to call and tell them that he can`t go to school?

PINSKY: Like how`s he going to keep his grades up if he`s accused of trying to kill his parents.

JONES: This is a bizarre situation. This guy`s never been in trouble in his life, was in the band, honor roll student. Tied the door shut. Set the room, the house on fire, then left.

But on top of all this, Dr. Drew, he had drawings and pictures of how much he hated his parents, how much he wanted them to die. He had a special little logbook. No trouble ever in his life.

His parents, the only thing they`d done, small discipline. They took his cell phone away. And they were not going to let him drive the car.

And I`ve been doing this for 40 years, and I`ve never seen anything like this, you know, shooting the parent or shooting someone is different than stabbing, setting them on fire is a -- is a terrible way to die. There`s no good way, but fire is one of the worst ways.

PINSKY: And especially with no antecedent dent warnings that this is all burning inside this kid or his behavior had manifested in any other domain or any other way.

JONES: None.

PINSKY: Let me ask the panel. You guys want to ask the sheriff anything? Who has the question?

Lynn, go ahead. Lynn, first.

BERRY: I`m curious about that journal and the drawings. How detailed were the plans? What exactly did he say?

PINSKY: And how bizarre? And by the way, let me say it, how bizarre, why do you need to draw out plans about tying a door and lighting a fire? What would the plans be?

JONES: Well, the plans were almost like a blueprint -- a picture of a parent or somebody with their hands up in the air, very detailed, lots of hate in these drawings. You can see it. Flames, just lots of hate.

And then words, what I was referring to his mother, names that he was calling her. Just immense hate.

People in school were shocked. They said he was kind of a quiet guy. But he had drawings. He left, he come back. When they arrested him, he had no remorse whatsoever. It was almost like no big deal.

Then, on top of all that, in Ohio, you`re adjudicated -- juvenile crimes, two attempted murders and one aggravated arson. And in Ohio, that`s juvenile, but it`s still felony.

But you get an adjudication hearing in probably two to three weeks and due to the severity of the charges he`ll probably be bound over more than likely by juvenile court and tried as an adult, which I feel he should be.

PINSKY: Brian, first.

COPELAND: I read a couple of places -- Yes. I raid a couple of places, sheriff, that you want him to be tried as an adult in part because of the danger that he put firefighters and emergency responders in. Can you speak to that a little bit?

JONES: Sure I can. My deputies get to this fire. They`re the first on the scene. They push the door in. The father jumped out and broke his leg. He`s injured. The mother shouting for help. The deputies push the door in, and go in with a fire extinguisher, tried to extinguish the fire. The flame, the smoke is so hot they have to retreat from the house.

They go back. They try to come in again, and they come back in. The smoke, the flames is too hot. They go back out. And if they`d got to the door, the doors were tied shut. And then, they didn`t know if the boy was there. So, the fire guys get there. They have to go up the window. And, they respond there at high rates of speed. The deputies risk their lives, the fire guys risk their lives. And, I don`t think this guy should get a smack on the wrist even if he`s 15 years old.

PINSKY: Jenny, go ahead.

JONES: But I`m not a psychiatrist.

PINSKY: Jenny.

HUTT: Is there any chance there was some sort of abuse in that house that we just haven`t heard about yet?

JONES: Not that we`ve not seen. Basically, you guys have seen this, and I`ve been seeing it all over the country. These kids, there`s -- they come from nice homes, $350,000, $400,000 homes. Honorable students. Parents, you know, do well. These aren`t people that are shooting each other on the street, gang members, these mass shootings and these people that are trying to kill people.

These are quality families and the violence, what we`re seeing, we`re an area located between Cincinnati and Dayton, Ohio -- largest county -- in Ohio. And we`re seeing more violence in the entire state of kids, shooting kids, stabbing kids, and these kids are mostly coming from nice homes.

HUTT: Is there any pattern that you see in these kids? Did they use drugs? Or did they play video games? I mean, just hard to imagine that this can be the case.

JONES: The only pattern that I`m seeing -- the only pattern that I`m seeing --


PINSKY: Let the sheriff answer, please.


SEGUN ODUOLOWU, @SEGUNTHEPROGRAM: Who cares if there`s a common denominator?


ODUOLOWU: The kid planned a murder. He planned a murder. He wrote it down. He took steps to journal it, to chronicle how he was going to do it. We came on this same panel a couple days ago and were ready to throw away the key on a 14-year-old who snapped and stabbed somebody and not one of you asked was it rap music, was it music? Was he in to drugs? But this kid planned a murder like a criminal mastermind and the death of his parents.

HUTT: No. We are asking about --


PINSKY: Guys, I`m against the clock. I`m really against the clock. But Segun, I get your point, and the point is -- what we`re trying to know is and he is the -- case you`re talking about, the 14-year-old is something I`m thinking about as well, and I would like the sheriff just answer this then I have to go to break, which is there anything that we can attribute to this sudden increase across the board? Do you have any sense of that?

JONES: Yes. When I talk to other sheriffs all over the country and law enforcement, I believe that it`s the social media. They get into these cell phones. They get into online. They have chats with people they`re not supposed to. They see more violence. It`s OK to kill. It`s just a bunch of drawing and pictures. I`ve been doing this for 40 years.

And I have a master`s degree from Xavier University and I travel -- many board. And we, as law enforcement, see more and more violence with kids. We see it every day. We believe that we haven`t seen the tip of the iceberg yet.

PINSKY: Oh, my God. Well, Sheriff Jones, thank you. I hope to speak to you again because it`s a spooky possibility. It`s sort of -- what`s the word I`m looking for? Unsettling at the best. So, thank you so much. It`s a very, very difficult material.

All right. I`m going to bring a "Behavior Bureau" again -- thank you, panel -- to look for signs that might have been missed, perhaps.

Later on, intoxicated, wasted behind the wheel. A teenager admits to killing that guy, running him down while wasted. Video confession. We will have it, the confession, that puts him behind bars. He`s out of the field just after he did. We`re going to show you that video after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Southern County, 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help, help! Our house is on fire!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What type of fire is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a house fire! Inside a house!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is everybody out?



PINSKY: Welcome back. Co-host, Jenny Hutt. We are discussing this teen who`s accused of having burnt his house down with his parents, locked in it, tied by a rope that he put on the door, apparently, attempting to murder them. Let`s bring in the "Behavior Bureau."

Back with us, Casey, Danine, Samantha, and Jennifer. He had posted on Facebook about hating his parents. Here`s what he posted on Facebook three hours before the fire. "I`m so pissed at everything. I`m about to be reckless." Yes. No kidding.

HUTT: About to be.

PINSKY: You all heard what the sheriff said. Show of hands, do people agree with him that`s the whole story, that it`s exposure to violence and social media and acting up --




PINSKY: Go ahead. Sam.

SCHACHER: I think that violence is more socially accepted today. More people get up in arms if Miley Cyrus is twerking than all the violence that we see on TV, on film. There`s just a beheading on YouTube. I don`t hear anybody up in arms about that. I feel like these kids are getting desensitized to all the violence.

PINSKY: All right. Sam is very much involved --


HUTT: But that doesn`t mean they`re killing their parents.

PINSKY: I`m just getting some opinions here. Danine, you were shaking your head no.

MANETTE: Dr. Drew, this kid was an overindulged brat -- spoiled, obnoxious brat. I`m telling you. And these kids live in alternate reality, yes (ph). All they have to do is push a button and make a friend, and they can just, you know, they play a video game. They kill somebody. They push reset and the person`s back alive.

I don`t think this kid had any intention on killing his parents. I think that this was a temper tantrum on steroids. He`s probably never had any consequences or any punishment in his life. And I think he won`t have it this time because I think his parents are going to run in and save him like they probably always have done.

PINSKY: Well --

MANETTE: And they`re the only witnesses in this case. I think this will have more chance of ending up in family court than in adult court.

PINSKY: But Danine, you`re talking about narcissistic parenting where if anything happens to the child is a reflection on me. And narcissistic kinds of parent do not attach well to their kids. And Casey, I`m wondering if you think that maybe it`s just really problem with parenting than in the cultural environment that we`ve dumped the kid into, as Sam is saying, things are amplified.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Yes, and yes, and yes. I mean, honestly, I`m just amazed that this kid didn`t try to kill his parents and then go shoot up a school, because I really think he`s on that spectrum. You know, don`t forget, people like Luke Witham (INAUDIBLE) Adam Lanza, they start with the parents and then they go -- they grounded him. They said he couldn`t use the car. So, he ties the door shut, puts them in a panic.

He has a rich, fantastical life, which is why he keeps the log. The idea of putting his parents in the panic and harming was what really thrilled him. And then, he showed them by leaving the housing and taking the car, which is exactly what they said he could not do. So, this is acting out to a whole new level. And I`m just glad nobody at school really pissed him off or he would have taken to show that direction.

PINSKY: Jennifer.

JENNIFER KEITT, JENNIFERKEITT.COM: You know, what`s really interesting to me, there`s this thing that happens as parents, you`re just kind of looking for the generalities. Are they doing good in schools? Are they giving me any trouble? Are they giving me any feedback or any lip? And as soon as we give them the keys at 16 years old, we kind of check offer our -- OK, we`re done. Everything is OK.

I think we`re seeing more and more and more that it`s not OK. That we have to get into some kind of a way to engage with our kids` hearts, because all of us, and I`m guilty of overindulging our kids. I am guilty of that.

PINSKY: No, but it`s not just overindulging. I know Jenny. I think Jennifer is really onto something which she`s using a language of getting involved, using your heart to connect with them. I think we are so unsophisticated about relationships we can`t even do our basic job as parents.

KEITT: I agree.

HUTT: BUT I don`t think that every parent, when the kid turns 16 is like, here`s the car key and go. I have some privileged kids. There`s no way that they`re getting car keys at 16, 17. Just go. No way --

KEITT: Let me explain a little bit more then. So, it`s this thing in your mind when you`re just looking for the general signs of them being OK and you`re not do being the extra due diligence --


KEITT: Especially if you`ve got multiple kids. It`s hard. You`ve got two, three, four kids.

PINSKY: That`s a good way to sort of describe this. You`re not looking with your heart. You`re not looking --

KEITT: You`re not.

PINSKY: -- emotionally. You`re looking -- we -- they`re honor (ph) kids, fantastic.

KEITT: Exactly. They`re on the cheerleading squad.

PINSKY: That is so commercially --

KEITT: Exactly.

PINSKY: -- so commercial and so materialistic. We`re so focused on that we don`t care about what`s going on emotionally that we miss the basic unit of what is required to be a parent. And it`s about intimacy. It`s about attachment. And you know what, guys, most people don`t know what I`m talking about because they`ve never been exposed to it.


PINSKY: I would love -- all day, guys, on this one, guys, but I`ve got to go. if you have a comment or question for the "Behavior Bureau," tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.

Up next, another teenager, he is involved in a fatal crash, admits he was intoxicated behind the wheel immediately afterwards, and it`s all on video. Check it out.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Now, a father of three was cycling in a bike lane, struck, and killed by a car. The 18-year-old driver apparently staggers out of the vehicle and is held by a witness who videotaped this confession which has just been released by authorities. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony, that`s your pipe right there?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And you were the one driving the car?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re high right now?



PINSKY: He`s serving a 30-month prison term after pleading no contest to vehicular homicide. Here again, Casey, Danine, Sam, and Jennifer. And Danine, what`s your reaction to that video.

MANETTE: Well, you know, people back in the day when we read 1984 and they were talking about Big Brother is going to be watching. Now, it`s really little brother that`s watching because everybody`s got a cell phone. And in a situation like this, he didn`t have to get his rights read to him, you know, as if it was a police person -- police officer getting a confession from him.

This is just a regular person. So, something like this could actually become the wave of the future and be held up in court.

PINSKY: I like that. Sam, I`m hearing that this was k2 or spice, which is a synthetic cannabis or cannabis cyclohexanol which is a drug that causes psychosis, and intoxication and seizure, it`s a mess. Are young people really still using this? Isn`t the word gotten out yet?

SCHACHER: I don`t know, Dr. Drew, but here`s the thing. What I do know is kids, teenagers, do experiment with drugs and alcohol. That`s why our programs need to implement programs to educate them to not drive under the influence. And when I look back on my high school experience, I don`t really remember any such programs.

Yes, people would say don`t drink and drive, but the reality is, is teenagers think they`re invincible. And they need to see firsthand accounts like this teenager or even Matthew Cordle who recently admitted on YouTube to killing a man while drinking and driving. They need to hear this firsthand account so they can see that it can happen to them and maybe other teenagers will think twice before getting behind the wheel under the influence.

PINSKY: And Casey, your point is well-taken, which is intoxication is not just alcohol. It is pills, it is cannabis --


PINSKY: It`s still driving under the influence, yes?

JORDAN: Yes. And I think in the United States, it is too easy for teenagers to get driver`s licenses. And you look at other countries where, you know, you can`t get one until you`re 18. And whether they`re high or drunk or under the influence of anything or just distracted driving with the cell phones, I truly think this is a great example.

Really, kudos to the bystander for getting it on video with a kid knows what he was doing and knows that it`s wrong. I love that they got that proof and it probably was a major role in his conviction.

PINSKY: We`ll take a quick break. I`ll get Jenny and Jennifer`s comments after the break.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt and the "Behavior Bureau." We are discussing a Florida teen high on apparently synthetic cannabis while driving, kills a father of three. A videotape confession at the scene of the crime helps to send him to prison. Take a look at that video.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony, that`s your pipe right there?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And you were the one driving the car?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re high right now?



PINSKY: And Jenny, I know you want to make a comment, but let me throw up a tweet before you do and this is from Jim Schlichting (ph). "It is 30 months for a murder. What excuse will your panel come up with. Education --" I think he`s taking aim at Sam there. "Education my ass. Responsibility. He deserves more jail time" He did murder a father of three, Jenny. He`s got a point.

HUTT: Yes. I`m not making any excuses. It`s unacceptable and it`s outrageous.

SCHACHER: I don`t think any of us are. None of us are making excuses.

HUTT: But I do have a question about the spice versus marijuana. I`m just not hip. I never heard of --

PINSKY: Well, no one ever accused you of being so. Don`t worry. K2 -- K2 and spice is cannabis cyclohexanol is really the active ingredients. It`s a synthetic cannabis. It`s not really detectable by testing yet. And it causes seizures and psychosis and sometimes sustained psychosis. It is a dangerous compound. I don`t understand why anybody would ever choose to use it. Most people use it to try to get around drug testing. Jennifer, we haven`t heard from you yet.

KEITT: I believe very much so, just like the Tweeter just said, that he does deserve more time because teens don`t party alone. So, there was somebody who sold it to him. There was somebody that was probably partying with him. There has to be made an example of.

I`m very familiar. I`ve raised a lot of teens. And I`ve seen this stuff and I know that the kids are using it, but he`s getting it from someone. He`s giving it to someone else. He`s partying with other people. He needs to be made an example of. And I`m sorry 30 months for a father and a husband`s life? Absolutely not enough time.

PINSKY: Casey, do you agree?

JORDAN: Beyond that, yes. I think I`m really appalled by just the video of him sitting on the grass admitting to it because he does not get what he has done. So, the effects of this drug and the fact that he voluntarily took it, it is -- you know, they`re going to argue involuntary homicide, 30 months, but that does not bring this bicyclist back to his family. So, I think more time would be an order to get this kid into adulthood. Probably ten years would make me happy.

PINSKY: Danine, last word, ten seconds.

MANETTE: Yes. I mean, I definitely agree more time needs to be had because it`s like these kids won`t learn, unless, they see an example being made of somebody who`s gone before them and made the same done choices.

PINSKY: Thank you guys. "Last Call`s" next.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the time we left the house, the water was up to our knees, and the water came all the way up. I can`t believe we got out.

PINSKY: It`s a big deal. I`m sorry.


PINSKY: You need lots of hugs.


PINSKY: It is time for the "Last Call." That was myself and Ramona from "Mob Wives" on VH1 in Staten Island last year just after the storm which was one year ago this week. People are still struggling from the effects of superstorm Sandy. Made landfall a year ago today. More than 100 people killed. $65 billion in damage along the east coast.

Jersey was particularly hard hit and some have rebuilt, some have left the area, others still waiting one year later for help. Funds are tied up in red tape. And I know, Jenny, you, yourself, have -- you were without power for how long?

HUTT: We were without power just about two weeks, but we were the lucky ones, because we got to stay with my sister and hunker down with her and have a lot of family time. I did take my kids over to the far rock ways (ph) which were hit incredibly hard.

PINSKY: Unbelievable.

HUTT: And we brought supplies, and it was good to give back in that way because we couldn`t get gas for our car. It was really awful.

PINSKY: Yes. there were gas lines. There was a snowstorm that came the week later.

HUTT: Oh, yes.

PINSKY: And it was really a terrible time. I want to thank the emergency services that did finally kick in. And our hearts continue to go out for those that struggled with the storm. Go ahead, Jenny.

HUTT: And all of the out of state workers that came to our aid were really remarkable and kind.

PINSKY: Thank you very much. We`ll remember you. And we`ll see you next time. "HLN After Dark" begins right now.