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MacNeill Facelift Murder Trial Day Nine

Aired October 29, 2013 - 20:00:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors believe Gypsy Willis, the alleged mistress, was Martin MacNeill`s motive for murdering his own wife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are these pictures showing?

GYPSY WILLIS, MACNEILL`S MISTRESS: Me lying down on the floor, me in a mirror, you know, exposing my back. There`s one picture where it`s a little bit suggestive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Showing your buttocks?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the day that these were created?

WILLIS: 4-12.


WILLIS: I`m sorry, 2007.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so these were taken the day after Michele MacNeill`s death?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the two of you resumed your sexual relationship when you were moved into the home as the nanny.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In June of 2007, were you making bids on wedding rings?

WILLIS: Martin and I were.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Frankly, we were giddy about Martin joining the family. Martin MacNeill is a very impressive person. He`s tall. Heaps got a bright white smile.

WILLIS: I do remember him proposing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of a ring was this?

WILLIS: It was a diamond ring.


WILLIS: 4-and-a-half carats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember the cost of that ring?

WILLIS: It was around $7,000.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were pleased. Of course. Who wouldn`t be?


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Live to Utah. Bombshell tonight. Day nine of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial, MacNeill`s lover, and her mother to boot, both on the stand to testify against Martin MacNeill.

Then in her own words, the heart-breaking story of a child finding Mommy dead. Then 6 years old, Ada in her own words.

Straight out to Jean Casarez standing by. All of us joining you. We`re live at the courthouse. Jean, tell me about Gypsy Willis on the stand.

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: First of all, being in the courtroom, she was confident. I think she enjoyed testifying. She wasn`t intimidated at all. But she laid out a timeline, Nancy, for prosecutors, starting with the day after Michele died. That`s when she sent Martin provocative photos.

GRACE: You know, what I don`t understand is why we didn`t see the photos. But hey, let`s go in the courtroom. Let`s go in the courtroom, Gypsy Willis on the stand.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are these pictures showing?

WILLIS: Me lying down on a pillow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what was the day that these were created?

WILLIS: Created date, 4-12.


WILLIS: I`m sorry, 2007.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so these were taken the day after Michele MacNeill`s death?

WILLIS: 4-12 -- yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And around this time, you were sending picture messages to the defendant.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Will you describe the content of these two pictures for me?

WILLIS: They are of me in a mirror, you know, exposing my back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it exposing below your back, as well?


GRACE: I`m sure that she`s looking in the mirror like Kim Kardashian in, like, underwear or without a shirt. But the judge is not letting the jury see this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... shirtless.

WILLIS: Well, I`m -- my back is exposed. I can`t quite say, to tell you the truth. I think -- I think I had a dress that had, like, a sheer back to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And in a number of these other pictures, it`s your exposed back?

WILLIS: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And again, the date on these two is what?

WILLIS: That`s 4-12 of 2007.


GRACE: You are seeing on the stand the mistress, Gypsy Willis. And we heard so much about the timeline, and what`s so significant about the timeline is that these two were already talking marriage before his wife was dead.

But I`m telling you, Jim Kirkwood, KTKK talk show host, I can`t say it any more than I have. You`ve got to see this one with a long-handled spoon. The state wants her testimony, but she might bite. She lied through her whole testimony. To say that at one point, their relationship wasn`t serious? They even put in formal documents their wedding date was the date of his wife`s funeral, Kirkwood.

JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK: Yes. Yes. And that 4-and-a-half carat diamond would cost him at least $40,000, $50,000, Nancy. What is this $7,000 nonsense? He was committed. You don`t spend that kind of money on a woman unless you`re really serious.

GRACE: Well, the thing I`m wondering about, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter,, she is sending him nude or semi-nude photos, and this is around the time of his wife`s death, OK, in the days of her death.

And I mean, you know -- for instance, on my wedding day, I don`t want some man sending me racy photos of himself or the day of a funeral of anyone. But did he reject those texts? No, he did not. He wanted more.

Why isn`t the judge letting the jury see what communications were going on? She says, Oh, I was just lying on a pillow. I bet she was lying on a pillow! I bet she was lying on a pillow with a G-string and a push-up bra. That`s what I bet, at best.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: You`re exactly right. And did you see the smirk on her face? She`s laughing. She loved looking at these pictures. They`re probably very sexy of her, and she thinks she looks wonderful. That`s why she posed in a mirror. You don`t take those pictures if you`re not proud of the way you look. You`re exactly right. It was the day after his wife died!

GRACE: Everyone, we are live in Provo and taking your calls. But right now, back into the courtroom.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You recognize that?



WILLIS: It`s an application for a identification card.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who filled this application out?

WILLIS: Martin filled it out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did that happen?

WILLIS: I was out in the car, and I told him to go in there and make arrangements, and if that was approved, then I would come in and sign it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he set (ph) out (ph) the filling out of this application?

WILLIS: He filled out the information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what was the purpose of this application?

WILLIS: It was to give me access to the military base with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To get you an ID for that, correct?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what name was used for you?

WILLIS: Jillian G. MacNeill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you hold yourself out as married to someone?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Married to whom?

WILLIS: Martin MacNeill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you have a marriage date on this?

WILLIS: The marriage date is listed as April 14th.


WILLIS: 2007.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the significance of April 14th of 2007?

WILLIS: That is the day of the funeral.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of whose funeral?

WILLIS: Michele`s.


GRACE: Unleash the lawyer. Out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, defense attorney Renee Rockwell. Out of New York, defense attorney Alex Sanchez. And joining us at the courthouse in Provo, Greg Skordas, former Salt Lake county attorney, deputy DA, also a defense attorney now.

First to you, Skordas. So they actually write down in documents that their wedding day is her funeral, the same date.

GREG SKORDAS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know. That really plays into the state`s hands so much about their motive here, his -- his willingness and opportunity to get rid of his wife, the years and years of child support that he`s probably going to have to pay, the decades of alimony that he`s going to have to pay.

And I think the state`s going to say that there was one way for him to avoid paying that, and that`s to take the avenue that they claim that he did.

GRACE: Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, if this is what they`re grasping for, it tells me they don`t have anything else. If they`re using these astrological dates -- that`s not evidence of a homicide, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, when you`re referring to astrological dates, that came up at the very beginning of the trial.

Let`s go back in the courtroom to hear Gypsy Willis, the mistress, talking about how they planned their wedding day.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you had, in fact, e-mailed for an astrological wedding date, isn`t that true?

WILLIS: I don`t remember that.


WILLIS: Astrology has interested me in the past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were looking for a date that would be appropriate astrologically between you and the defendant.

WILLIS: I suppose. I don`t remember the specifics, but astrology and different things has interested me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, would you look at this one? Remember this e- mail?

WILLIS: I don`t specifically, but I see it here, so...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what is it regarding?

WILLIS: It says, regarding astrology wedding date questionnaire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when was that?

WILLIS: Thursday, June 28th.


GRACE: OK, out to you, Sanchez. I didn`t get you to weigh in. Gypsy Willis, the girlfriend -- this is happening on April 14, OK? The wife died April 11.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, look, Nancy, in the character assassination department, prosecutor wins hands down. But what about the evidence department? I`m interested, and you should be interested, in what physical or forensic evidence links him to committing this crime. Is the guy a dirtbag? Yes.

GRACE: OK, Alex, actually, all of us have tried cases. I think you all have. I know Skordas has. Renee, I know you have. Sanchez, I think you have. I`m sure you all know that there was a progression of witnesses, and this is going in chronological order. That`s why these witnesses have been called first.

SANCHEZ: Yes, but you know, it`s reaching the point of diminishing returns. How much information is the jury supposed to hear about what a vacuous character this is? His attorney should get up and say, Look, we concede this man is a dirtbag. He`s a liar. Show us the evidence of him committing murder. Or as they say in Iowa, show us the money. They don`t have it, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, I actually think that that`s coming...

SANCHEZ: This case is going down the tubes.

GRACE: ... when they get into their forensic science.

Let`s go back in the courtroom for more testimony.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You and the defendant went to Wyoming in early July of 2007, correct?

WILLIS: I believe so. Sounds about right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the defendant proposed to you officially.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that correct?

WILLIS: I believe -- it`s been so long.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t remember him proposing to you?

WILLIS: This relationship has been over a very long time. I do remember him proposing. Sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where was that at?

WILLIS: It was in Wyoming. It was at a restaurant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A nice restaurant. And he gave you a ring at this point, or did the ring come later?

WILLIS: I think he did give me a ring at that time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you were later given a pretty nice ring, correct?


GRACE: She thinks he gave her the ring at that time? Ladies, don`t you remember when you got your engagement ring? She`s lying.


WILLIS: ... which location it happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been proposed to since the defendant proposed to you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. The engagement ring that you received at some point from the defendant, whether it was the day he proposed to you in July in Wyoming or it was another date, what kind of a ring was this?

WILLIS: It was a diamond ring.


WILLIS: How big, carat?


WILLIS: It was 4-and-a-half carats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember the cost of that ring?

WILLIS: It was around $7,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And the defendant told -- did you hear the defendant tell his children about the marriage, the impending marriage?

WILLIS: I think I heard that he had told them.


WILLIS: I -- I -- I believe he said that he had sent them a message that that was the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you guys were getting married?

WILLIS: Something like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that you were getting married in the temple.

WILLIS: I don`t -- I don`t know what he told his children.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hear the defendant tell the children about the marriage, the impending marriage?

WILLIS: I think I heard that he had told them.


WILLIS: I -- I -- I believe he said that he had -- he had sent them a message that that was the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you guys were getting married?

WILLIS: Something like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that were you getting married in the temple.

WILLIS: I don`t know what he told his children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were the two of you ever officially married, though?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite not being officially married, you still held yourself out as Jillian MacNeill?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The wife of the defendant?



GRACE: OK, a 4-and-a-half carat diamond ring -- that`s what Christina Aquilera, Jennifer Garner, Jessica Alba have. Yet she`s saying she doesn`t know if they`re serious? Hello!

Out to Judy Ho, psychologist. One the stand is MacNeill`s lover, one of his many lovers, but this is the one that seemingly broke up the marriage. And I`m glad she took our advice and at least, you know, wore a dress that I didn`t have to look down at her cleavage the whole testimony. That`s a relief.

But to say that she just wasn`t sure if they were serious in their relationship? They`ve already consulted an astrologer to find out a good astrological wedding date, all right? She`s not even cold in the grave yet.

JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. She says they`re not serious, but she took his last name even before they were married. She`s obviously lying. She`s playing dumb. But also, Nancy, she`s narcissistic, like -- acting like she doesn`t know when the proposal happened, if the ring came with it. Who does that? What woman do you know that doesn`t know when they got the ring and what the proposal really was?

GRACE: Out to Matt Zarrell, also on the story. Matt, the reality is, is that she`s lying. She`s hedging in favor of Martin MacNeill. Every time she`s asked a question, she tries to soften the blow to make it appear as if their relationship was not motive for murder. I`ve noticed it throughout her entire testimony.

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, and she was actually caught in one of those lies in later testimony because she testified today that she was not hired as the nanny until nine days after Michele`s death. However, another witness testified today that the day of Michele`s funeral, MacNeill was telling people he had already hired a nanny.

GRACE: Let`s go back into the courtroom. On the stand, MacNeill`s lover.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After you were hired, the defendant took you around to different people, handing out thank you gifts and introducing you, correct?

WILLIS: Introducing me was a side subject. It was to thank them for their support during his bad time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. But in the process of giving gifts, you were with him, and he would introduce who you were.

WILLIS: I was with everyone. The children were there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And how did he introduce you?

WILLIS: I believe he introduced me as the nanny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what name did he use?

WILLIS: Jillian.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the two of you resumed your sexual relationship when you moved into the home as the nanny.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the two of you were hiding the fact that you were sexually involved from the children.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I told you that others have testified that you were not much of a nanny in terms of cooking and cleaning and taking care of the children, and were just staring goo-eyed at the defendant, what would be your response?

WILLIS: My response is that when the adult children were home, I deferred to them and went back to studying my nursing. I did actually help with the children.



GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. It is day nine of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. He insisted his wife get a full facelift over her objections, but she did it. Then she ends up dead in the family bathtub.

On the stand, MacNeill`s lover, the lover that seemingly broke up the marriage. That breakup ended in Michele`s death.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You haven`t been trained as a nanny, isn`t that correct?

WILLIS: I`ve not been trained as a nanny. I had a child of my own.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. Tell me what you did with the children? What were your nanny duties?

WILLIS: I would get up, make sure they were getting ready for school, getting breakfast. I`d take them to school. I would go to my nursing classes. I would come back. I would take them to dance. We`d stop at the grocery. I`d help with dinner if Martin wasn`t cooking, help them make dinner sometimes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you weren`t going to nursing school, so you were busy during this time, as well?

WILLIS: I was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you were doing something?



GRACE: OK, there you see her on cross-examination.

Out to Jean Casarez, joining us at the courthouse in Provo. How do you think she did on cross-exam?

CASAREZ: On cross-examination, you heard about the amount of texts that she did -- I mean, 2,000 to 3,000 between January and April. The defense left a question that some of those texts were to her girlfriends, and what did she say to her girlfriends? I do believe she knows so much more than what she said on the stand today.

GRACE: Well, you know, she was really holding back. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Greg Skordas, Renee Rockwell, Alex Sanchez. First to you, Skordas. It was so bad, she was hedging so bad, trying to cover for her lover, Martin MacNeill, on trial for his wife`s murder, that the state, who has called her, who is giving her a deal in exchange for her testimony, had to declare her under the law a hostile witness so they could cross-examine her to get her to tell the truth, Greg.

SKORDAS: Right. And the judge even allowed that because she was so pathetic at some point, and they allowed the state to do what`s called leading questions, as you just suggested -- in other words, questions that sort of propose and answer, that lead her along, that don`t let her flounder around like she had been so long. She really was a pathetic person.

GRACE: Well, I was very surprised it took the state that long to declare her a hostile witness. In a nutshell, Renee Rockwell, when you have your own witness declared a hostile witness, what does it mean?

ROCKWELL: That means, Nancy, that the witness you know is not going to be for you, is going to be against you so you can wear them out. You`re not supposed to wear a witness out unless you know that they`re going to be hostile or not going to be cooperative with the theory that you`re trying to present with them.

GRACE: So bottom line -- and this is neither a defense nor a prosecution question I`m asking you, Renee. When you put your own witness up on the stand and they doublecross you, you can`t just light into them. You have to go to the judges, say, Look at questions one, two and three. They`re hostile, which means they`re not going along with the testimony they gave me before trial. Then you get to light into them like a windmill in a tornado.

ROCKWELL: Right. And you`re not asking them, Tell us what happened. You`re saying to them, Isn`t it true that you told me before X, Y and Z, and now you`re saying this? You can light them up. You can wear them out.


GRACE: Welcome back. It is day nine in the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. His 6-year-old little girl comes in to find Mommy dead in the family bathtub, but on the stand, his lover, Gypsy Willis.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In May, you began receiving e-mails, I love you e- mails, that kind of thing from the defendant. Correct?

GYPSY WILLIS: I -- I don`t remember the e-mails specifically. I remember the texts and that sort of thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you exchanging terms of endearment in texts?

WILLIS: I expect so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you. I miss you. I wish you were here at work. That kind of thing.

WILLIS: Probably.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. In June of 2007, you began looking at wedding rings. Didn`t you?

WILLIS: I`m sorry. What month?


WILLIS: June or July.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you familiar with a company known as


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What company is that?

WILLIS: It`s an online company where they post things that they want to sell, and it`s similar to eBay, where you make bids on what you`re interested in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you making bids on wedding rings?

WILLIS: Martin and I were.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Previously you had said that your e-mail address was -- [ inaudible ], correct?

WILLIS: Yes. That was one of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see this right here? What is the date of this Bids best picks? Do you know?



WILLIS: June 26.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, and this one?

WILLIS: June 28th.


GRACE: But it`s not all about their happy engagement on the heels of his wife`s funeral. It`s about the day of Michele`s murder. The day her little girl Ada found her dead in the family tub. Take a listen as the prosecution finds out just how many text messages Gypsy Willis exchanged with her lover, Michele`s husband, at that time.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In January of 2007, February 2007, March 2007, April of 2007, what are generally the total texts that you would text during those months?

WILLIS: Total?


WILLIS: In the neighborhood of 2,000 or 3,000 texts. I text everybody. I prefer text to phone call.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who are some of the other people you would text? Your girlfriends?

WILLIS: Yes. My girlfriends.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miranda -- Merinda?

WILLIS: Merinda.




WILLIS: Theresa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And other people as well?

WILLIS: That`s correct.


GRACE: Well, as if the lover herself was not enough. Jean Casarez, there was a mother/daughter act put on by the state. The state calls the mother. Gypsy Willis` mother to the stand. What use is she for the state?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it was a bombshell today. She testified that when she was alone in a car with Martin MacNeill, she asked about Michele`s death, and he said, you know, I was never really in love with Michele. I liked her as a friend but I never had the feelings I have for your daughter. But, Nancy, she`s not like her daughter, at least from what I saw in the courtroom. She hasn`t spoken to her daughter since 2007. So something happened between them.

GRACE: You`re right. You`re absolutely right. We learned about a lot of deceit on the mistress` part to her own mother. The state will be able to turn that around, Alex Sanchez, and argue, don`t you think if this mistress, Gypsy Willis, would lie to her own mother, she`ll lie to you, to save MacNeill?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what, Nancy, I`m not sure if any of this testimony is actually helping the prosecution. To me it`s almost beginning to look comical. Almost funny. So I`m not sure what use it`s actually having here.

GRACE: Really? OK, well, I assume you either are or have been married. I don`t think any man or woman on that jury would think it`s comical that MacNeill is having an affair, picking out engagement rings while his wife is still alive. But you know, that`s just you and your business. Let`s go back into the courtroom, because now on the stand is the mistress` mother.


VICKI WILLIS, MOTHER OF GYPSY WILLIS: The purpose of the letter and gift, I believe it was sent for Mother`s Day, and it also thanked us for our hospitality when he came to meet the family, and it was basically that kind of thoughtful gift in honor of Mother`s Day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you respond upon receiving that gift?

WILLIS: Well, I was very -- I was very grateful. I mean, we were -- we were -- frankly, we were giddy about Martin joining the family. He seemed --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustained. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were happy about receiving the gift?

WILLIS: It was very nice. It was very kind, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was your response in -- in meeting Martin and understanding that he was with your daughter?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection. Relevance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overruled. She may answer.

WILLIS: Well, Martin MacNeill is a very impressive person. He`s tall. He`s got a bright white smile. He holds the title of doctor and also attorney, a lawyer. Both of which are highly esteemed in American society. We were pleased. Of course. Who wouldn`t be?


GRACE: You know, out to you, Kirkwood. Jean Casarez is right. This woman is anything but like her daughter. She`s extremely articulate. Seems very subdued on the stand. The exact polar opposite from Gypsy Willis.

JIM KIRKWOOD, TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, she is. And she seems to have moral character, that, in my opinion, Gypsy does not have, and she seems to be intelligent, as you said, and my guess is a really decent, moral woman.

GRACE: That should resonate with the jury. Everyone, straight back into the courtroom. On the stand, the mistress` mother, called by the state.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you aware whether or not they ever became engaged, Martin and Gypsy?

WILLIS: We were told they were. There was a big party, that --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where was this party?

WILLIS: This was at a place called Poor Richard`s in Cheyenne. It is one of the better restaurants in Cheyenne, and there was a big party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recall approximately when this party was?

WILLIS: This was right around the Fourth of July.


WILLIS: And I remember, I believe the day before was the Fourth and we lit off the fireworks and we congratulated them, because we expected the engagement party, and the engagement party was, like, the next day. And it was a big deal. I mean, we --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was it? What did you see?

WILLIS: Oh, there was -- there was a room rented for, a banquet room rented for it. Dr. MacNeill paid for all of the plates, and sparkling cider, and we had our daughter, our other daughter, Julianna (ph), and her family, and ourselves, and Gypsy and Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Did you observe during that party the defendant interact with Gypsy?

WILLIS: Oh, yes.


WILLIS: They were both -- they were both very, very happy, and he -- he made a speech about his love for her, and made a very public show of dropping to one knee, and asking her to marry him, and she said, yes, and it was a happy event.


GRACE: Now, remember, this public event there in Wyoming where all of Gypsy Willis` relatives were invited. MacNeill paid for a banquet hall, for a caterer. The works. His wife had been dead then about, hmm, 45, 50 days. He falls to his knees in a great show of public love and proposes to his mistress. I don`t know where his eight children were during that engagement party.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point you spoke with the defendant about his relationship with Michele MacNeill. Is that correct?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember approximately when this would have taken place?

WILLIS: You mean day? As in day or month, or --


WILLIS: It was probably after the engagement party, and he said to me that he had never loved Michele. And then he amended that to say, well, I did. I loved her as a sister, but I did not love her the way I love Gypsy.


GRACE: Well, that`s difficult for any woman to hear after eight children with him.

Everyone, the strategy in the courtroom takes a sudden turn. Then 6- year-old Ada finds her mother dead, and now in her own words, 6-year-old Ada. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody told me that a little over a year ago that your mom died. Is that true? Wow. Do you know what happened? Tell me what happened.

ADA MACNEILL: My dad told me, we were just walking home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you talk just a little louder, honey?

MACNEILL: Just once we were walking home. And she was sick, and my dad came in, and we walked in the room, and the water, we were, like, looking for her, because -- and then right in the water -- I guess the water was, like, almost -- it was like brown and stuff, and you can hardly see it. So my dad told me to go next door and get somebody, and he was screaming, help, quick. And I had to run next door to get my, at my friend`s house, and I had to run, and his name was Dunstan or something. And I had to run to get his mom so his mom came over and started helping, and then I stayed there at Dunstan`s for a little bit, and then we went somewhere. I forget where it was.


GRACE: Now, let me tell you the judge is not allowing, would not have allowed anyone to see Ada`s face on camera, and what the state decided to do was let the jury see and hear everything. You are hearing Ada in her own words. To Dr. Amy Burrows Beckham, assistant medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of Louisville. Doctor, thank you for being with us. Why is it so crucial, this child`s testimony?

DR. AMY BURROWS BECKHAM, MD, MEDICAL EXAMINER: She was one of the first people to see her mother, see the position that her mother was in in the tub or in the bathroom.

GRACE: And that is significant to the medical examiner`s decision, why?

BECKHAM: That would help us try to determine, did this person drown or did they suffer a natural event or did they have an accidental injury, such as a head injury from a fall? Knowing about the scene would help the medical examiner try to figure things out.

GRACE: It`s interesting, Dr. Amy Burrows Beckham. The child describes the mother in a completely different position, and the father is telling multiple people the mom is leaning over the side of the tub as if she were washing her hair in the faucet with her knees on the ground outside the tub. The little 6-year-old describes mommy lying face-up, fully clothed. Later, wet, bloody clothes matching the child`s description are found in the garage, and lividity had already gone to Michele`s back, buttocks and the back of her legs. What does that say to you?

BECKHAM: Well, lividity is the settling of blood due to gravity. It`s a pink, purplish, red discoloration on the skin. And lividity can tell us the position a body was in after a person dies. So lividity pattern on her back and buttocks does indicate she was face-up at some point.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s go back in the courtroom, in her own words, then 6-year-old Ada, about discovering her mom`s body.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember, Ada, if you were home a long time or a little time before you guys found your mom?

ADA MACNEILL: I think it was a long time, since I was gone at school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since you were gone at school. What about after you got home? Did you find your mom pretty quickly, or did it take a long time?

ADA MACNEILL: I found her pretty quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You found her pretty quickly. What was your dad doing, when you guys got home?

ADA MACNEILL: He was walking me home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was walking you home. And what happened after you guys got home? What did your dad do after you guys got home?

ADA MACNEILL: He just went in to see if she was there and found her in the bathtub. She just was wetting her hair, but -- she was still in her clothes, but --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see her clothes?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see her clothes? Do you know what she was wearing?



ADA MACNEILL: I don`t remember what she was wearing, but I just remember it was, like, a blue jacket or something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say that again. I didn`t hear you.

ADA MACNEILL: A blue jacket. A blue jacket, like blue jeans or something, not blue jeans, I don`t remember.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. But you remember she had a blue jacket on?

ADA MACNEILL: I think it`s a blue jacket.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Do you remember what she had on for bottoms?

ADA MACNEILL: I remember it was something -- I don`t remember what it was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember if it was like a skirt or shorts or pants?

ADA MACNEILL: It was pants.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some kind of pants. Do you remember what color they were? Don`t remember?



GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live in Provo and bringing you day nine of the face-lift murder trial, crucial testimony on the stand today. Little Ada, then six years old. The jury hears her in her own words describing walking home from school with her father. Now remember, her mother took her to school and was scheduled to pick her up. At the last minute, Dr. MacNeill says his wife doesn`t feel well. He will go get Ada. He brings her home. He sends his six year old little girl into the home to find her mother dead. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me how come you`re living with Alexis.

ADA MACNEILL: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t know. Did you used to live with somebody else? Mm-hm? Who did you used to live with?

ADA MACNEILL: I don`t want to talk about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t want to talk about it. OK.


GRACE: You know, to Judy Ho, psychologist, every time the issue comes up about was she living with her father, why does she feel safer living with her sister now. She says I don`t want to talk about it. Why does she feel unsafe in the home with her father? She just won`t answer.

JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. And a lot of times when you see children being evasive like that about information is because there is some degree of trauma or some kind of negative event they really just don`t want to discuss, and honestly their young minds just can`t handle this type of severity.

GRACE: Judy, even with my children, and they`re five and a half, if something happens on the playground or someone said something mean to them at school, they`ll kind of tell me about it and I`ll say well, tell me, and they`ll go, no, I don`t want to talk about it. And I`ll go okay. And then later, hours later they`ll tell me. But it`s things that are painful and hurtful to them, they don`t want to talk about.

HO: That`s right. And with children, they don`t have all the coping skills in place to even know that negative feelings are OK sometimes. And that`s why it takes you a little time to kind of draw them out. And this is what`s happening here as well.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Mary, Virginia, hi, what`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I have a question and a quick comment. And I just want to make sure. Did I hear right that Gypsy was sexting with Martin the night of the funeral and sent up a picture of her bottom to make him feel better?

GRACE: Jim Kirkwood, talk show host, KTKK, is that correct?

KIRKWOOD: That`s my understanding from listening to her today. It appears that`s exactly what she sent, Nancy.

GRACE: Jean Casarez, explain to me, how did the jury react when they held that?

CASAREZ: Well, with Gypsy Willis, they were sitting back in their seats. I judge this jury by whether they stay forward or go back. They were back in their seats. But they were riveted to every word. And that was the day after she died that she sent those photographs, that`s the day after Michele died.


GRACE: What a day in that Provo courthouse. Out to the lines. Jason. Hi, Jason. What`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, I`ve got a quick question. Do we know if Gypsy knew she was dating a married man?

GRACE: I`m sure she did. I`m sure she knew she was dating a married man. Jean Casarez, at the get-go of her testimony, she described how they wanted to be discreet. She knew all along she was dating a married man with eight children.

CASAREZ: She definitely did. She was asked the question, did she know anything about what was to be the death of Michele, she said she didn`t know anything about it, and seemed to overhear something about that face-lift.

GRACE: Everyone, we are joining you from Provo. To Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about a cane and how it played out in front of the jury? A walking cane.

ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, that was very important. Michele`s sister took the stand and testified that whenever MacNeill was in private, there was nobody around, MacNeill would walk around without the cane, act like everything was fine. He was in perfect health. But when people were around at the funeral, at the grave site, all of a sudden he had the crane, he had a big limp in front of people.

GRACE: Everyone, testimony goes on tomorrow. Court is done for the day.

Right now, we remember American hero, Army Sergeant Kyle Stout, 25, Wake Village, Texas. Army Commendation Medal. Army Achievement Medal. National Defense Service Medal. Loved the outdoors, fishing, hunting. Parents Mike and Robin, brother Michael, sister Melissa. Kyle Stout, American hero.