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Sebelius Testifies on Capitol Hill; New NSA Allegations; Facebook Beats Expectations; Violence and Murder on Upswing in Iraq

Aired October 30, 2013 - 19:00   ET



ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): "OUTFRONT" next, lawmakers on the attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is responsible for overseeing this project? Is it you or your designee?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICE SECRETARY: Let me be clear. I'm not pointing fingers.

BURNETT: Sebelius in the hot seat. Who took the blame?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to find the truth.

BURNETT: More allegations against the NSA. How do other countries spy on Americans? A special report.

And a daughter turns on her father.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He gave her the pharmaca (ph), Valium, Fortab (ph) and then gave her two Percocets at 1:30 a.m.

BURNETT: New details in the MacNeill murder trial. Let's go "OUTFRONT."


BURNETT: Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. "Out Front" tonight -- tried and failed. A stunning admission from Vice President Joe Biden today. Even the man at the top of the White House couldn't log on to the Obamacare web site.


JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES FROM VIDEOCLIP: No, actually the President tried to get online and my daughter tried to get online. I did not because it was clear that I wasn't getting online.

BURNETT: He always says it like he sees now. Now, on the plus side for the President's case today, he did step up and take responsibility for the web site fiasco. That is, the President did -- at least for some of the fiasco. Listen for yourself.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES FROM VIDEOCLIP: There's no denying it. Right now the web site is too slow, too many people have gotten stuck and I'm not happy about it. Neither are a lot of Americans who need health care, and they're trying to figure out how they can sign up as quickly as possible. So there's no excuse for it. And I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP.

BURNETT: Full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP, leaving out one important point -- taking responsibility for fixing it is not the same thing as responsibility for breaking it. He left that task to his Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius, who faced a three and a half hour public grilling on Capitol Hill today. Dana Bash watched the whole long, uncomfortable but riveting hearing and she's "OutFront."


DANA BASH, JOURNALIST AND ANCHOR FOR CNN: Kathleen Sebelius came with a clear sound bite-like mea culpa.

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: I apologize. I'm accountable to you for fixing these problems.

BASH: The embattled HHS secretary repeatedly fell on her sword about the problem-plagued Obamacare web site.

SEBELIUS: I told the President that we were ready to go. Clearly, I was wrong.

BASH: Republicans eagerly pointed out that the web site wasn't even working during this three and a half hour hearing.

PETE OLSON, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS, REPUBLICAN: It's been down the whole time you've been testifying.

BASH: Democrats were eager to point out the positive.

JAN SCHAKOWSKY, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, DEMOCRAT: Women can no longer be charged more than a man for the same coverage.

BASH: But some worried web site problems are masking all that and want to be sure it will be fixed by the new November 30th deadline.

ANNA ESHOO, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR CALIFORNIA, DEMOCRAT: Do you have full confidence in this new hard date?

SEBELIUS: I know that the only way I can restore confidence that we get it right is to get it right.

BASH: Still, Sebelius flatly ruled out extending a March 31st deadline to enroll or delaying a fee Americans must pay for not buying insurance. And a few times her contrition was overshadowed by irritation.

GREGG HARPER, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR INDIANA, REPUBLICAN: It's great that you're a team player and you're taking responsibility. It is the President's ultimate responsibility, correct?

SEBELIUS: You clearly -- whatever. Yes, he is the President, he is responsible for government program.

BASH: Obamacare confusion reaches beyond the web site. Insurance companies are dropping people's plans. Something the President promised wouldn't happen. Sebelius struggled to explain why. Many of those plans do not have beefed up coverage required under the new law.

SEBELIUS: The policy that they had may not exist, but they have a lot of choices of new policies.

BASH: Republicans called it unfair.

MARSHA BLACKBURN, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, TENNESSEE, REPUBLICAN: Some people like to drive a Ford, not a Ferrari and some people like to drink out of a red Solo cup not a crystal stem. You're taking away their choice.

BASH: And Republicans came armed with constituent horror stories and pointed questions about why Sebelius herself isn't joining in Obamacare exchange.

SEBELIUS: I am not eligible for the exchange. As I have coverage in -

CORY GARDNER, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, COLORADO, REPUBLICAN: You can decide to drop your coverage of your employer. You have the choice to decide not to choose -

SEBELIUS: No, that is not true, sir.


BASH: Now it turns out Sebelius is right. She is prohibited from getting health insurance through the Obamacare exchange, Erin, but it's not because she's a cabinet secretary or because she seemed to indicate there she's already getting health care under the federal plan, it's because she's 65 and a Medicare recipient, and seniors who are getting that government health care plan can't also sign up for Obamacare. Erin.

BURNETT: Which is a frightening mistake. All right, thanks very much to you, Dana, who was there as we said through the day. Kevin Madden is with me now -- former advisor for Mitt Romney and Jim Manley, former spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. And great to have both of you with us. Jim, let me start with you. The President -- this is a president who has said many times, the buck stops with me. The buck stops with me, the buck stops with me. But he didn't go that far today, right? Saying 'I take responsibility for fixing the site.' He didn't directly say responsibility for all the problems. Why not?

JIM MANLEY, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR SENATE MAJORITY LEADER HARRY REID: Well, let me put it this way. The fact of the matter is he's fully committed in trying to deal with this issue as quickly as possible, get the program up and running and get the access to the million Americans that are looking for it right now. So, I think he laid it out pretty well today, and I'm sure there's going to be more to come in the days and weeks to come.

BURNETT: And, Jim, are you worried about -- I mean there's a new poll that just came out tonight. I want to share it with our viewers. The President's approval rating now at an all-time low, 42 percent -- five points down this month. The White House tonight though is saying Republicans did them a favor on the Hill today. That's the quote we just got. How so? How did Republicans do the President a favor today?

MANLEY: Well, by continuing to point out that they're -- continuing to be opposed to providing access to health care for millions of Americans. See, they got a real problem here. Once we get over this computer glitches and more and more people are beginning to get access to health care, Republicans are going to be in a position where they're going to be described as -- accurately as taking away health care for millions of Americans. On the poll itself, polls don't go up, polls go down. Rough patch right now. The fact of the matter is his polling's been pretty consistent over the five years that he's been President, so I don't see any real problem.

BURNETT: Kevin, let me ask you to follow there on what Jim just said, because he raises a fair point, right? If it starts to work, Republicans are in a tough problem. And the President actually when he spoke today was in Boston, home of Romneycare, right?


BURNETT: Universal coverage, I know you know so much about this. You worked with Mitt Romney.

MADDEN: Right.

BURNETT: In August, 84 percent of people in Massachusetts said they were satisfied with the health care they've gotten over the past year, but when it started it was incredibly slow, there were all kinds of problems. But it took time, then the plan was vindicated. What if this is the same way. I mean, at some point should Republicans stop pointing the finger because if it points back at them, it's going to be ugly?

MADDEN: Well, they're very happy with the -- the folks up in Massachusetts are very happy with the Massachusetts plan. That's because it was a state plan. It was also a plan that was tailored to the unique health care population of Massachusetts, which was about 6 and 1/2 million people when that law was passed. The problem with Obamacare is that what it's done is set -- is rearranged 1/6th of the American economy in a way that set a federal standard, and it's for 300 million people. Now, those 300 million people are seeing -- they're seeing higher premiums and they're seeing less choice in their health insurance options as a result of it. So, that's the big problem is that you have this monstrosity of a federal standard that is getting in between people and their doctors and also it's limiting the choices that they previously had. And that's where I think Republicans are aligning themselves with consumer sentiment, with voter sentiment, which is that they see this terrible --

BURNETT: But aren't they getting better plans. I mean, people may say I want my Solo cup, not my crystal cup, but the problem is, when something happens with their health care and they need the crystal cup, they're still going to go and expect care, and the rest of the country's still going to pay for it --

MADDEN: That's a great -

BURNETT: So why shouldn't you force them to buy the crystal cup?

MADDEN: -- that's a great question because deciding which plan is better for you ought to be up to you. Under Obama plan -- under Obamacare, the government is telling you what's the better plan for you and that's where a lot of people are so -- they're so ticked off at Obamacare and they're ticked off at Washington.

BURNETT: All right, Jim, let me ask you -- Secretary Sebelius set expectations low in terms of the sign ups, and you know, obviously, Kevin, they're giving the numbers a lot fewer people in Massachusetts, but overall, you know, we've heard these numbers. You have to have young and healthy people sign up. She admitted because of the web site problems, there is no question -- her words -- that the enrollment is going to be very low for the first month. And then of course there's what Vice President Joe Biden said to our Christi Paul. I have to play this again because you know what I love about Joe Biden? He says what he thinks. He says what happened. Here is the Vice President.


PAUL: Have you tried to get online yourself?

BIDEN: No, actually the President tried to get online and my daughter tried to get online. I did not because it was clear that I wasn't getting online.


BURNETT: And you got to chuckle, Jim, right? You know -

MANLEY: Absolutely.

BURNETT: All right. The President probably didn't want anyone to know that he tried to go on Obamacare and failed. But my point is this -- at some point, your numbers aren't going to work if people don't sign up.

MANLEY: Two things -- number one, I wish less Republican consultants and pundits would start -- stop trying to get on the web site and leave it to the American people who are looking for the access to health care. But leaving that aside, as Kevin know, the rate in Massachusetts started off very slow and continued slowly upward where, again, I believe it's 80 percent as some have suggested. Look, the fact of the matter is there's a lot of concern out there, there's a lot of misinformation, folks are confused, they're looking for guidance from the White House, the White House is providing it. As people get more and more comfortable, they're going to begin to sign on.

MADDEN: I don't know if it's guidance when the Vice President himself says he can't get on.

BURNETT: I think it does go down as the sound bite of the day.

MADDEN: Absolutely. He did the one thing you can't do in Washington -- don't screw up and tell the truth.

BURNETT: Thanks very much to both of you. We appreciate your time. Still to come, the President got heckled during his speech on Obamacare today. Here.


Males and Females FROM VIDEOCLIP: Mr. President --

OBAMA: Health care --

Male and Female: Mr. President, protect me from XL, stop climate change for our generation, stop the pipeline. Mr. President --



BURNETT: We'll show you how he handled it. They were clapping. Plus Republican lawmakers say they want answers about the attack in Benghazi and they are going nuclear now to get them. And life after the Trayvon Martin case -- what the Sanford Police Department is doing, tonight.


BURNETT: Our second story "OutFront:" -- Benghazi or Bust. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham wants answers and now. He is vowing to block all of President Obama's nominations, including the head of the Federal Reserve to get that. Graham says it's time to hear from the survivors of the terrorist attack in which four Americans were murdered in Libya, and he's not going to stop until those survivors testify in front of Congress. It may shock you it hasn't happened until this time, but it hasn't. And Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is "OutFront."


LINDSEY GRAHAM, SENATOR FROM SOUTH CAROLINA, REPUBLICAN: I want to open up the truth about Benghazi. BARBARA STARR, PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT FOR CNN: Republican Senator Lindsey Graham is not letting Benghazi go. His threat to block President Obama's nominees now even includes Janet Yellen, the President's pick to head the Federal Reserve.

GRAHAM: I will be asking the administration to do two simple things. Provide access to the witnesses who lived through the attack and give us their statements they made to the FBI two days after the attack.

STARR: The FBI says it won't release details from its investigation. The White House insists it's cooperating.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That includes testifying at 13 congressional hearings, participating in 40 staff briefings and providing over 25,000 pages of documents.

STARR: Some State Department and CIA survivors have spoken to congressional members. But Graham and others want to hear from all possible witnesses.

OBAMA: Make no mistake, justice will be done.

STARR: The President himself has publicly said the Benghazi investigation is a top priority. But as CNN first reported, U.S. commandos missed a crucial chance to capture a key suspect charged in the attack. When U.S. army commandos grabbed former Al Qaeda operative Abu Anas al Libi in Tripoli this month, they were hours away from a potential second raid in Benghazi to grab Ahmed Abu Khattalah, a militia leader believed involved in last year's attack. It never happened, in part, because after the publicity surrounding the first raid, the U.S. worried the Libyan government might collapse from the pressure of being seen helping the U.S. But not getting Khattalah who has lived openly in Benghazi and was even interviewed by CNN's Arwa Damon, is a point of frustration for Congress.

KELLY AYOTTE, SENATOR FOR NEW HAMPSHIRE, REPUBLICAN: Why have we not brought anyone to justice? It's been quite easily for the media -- CNN, "The New York Times", "The London Times" -- to interview Abu Khattalah.

STARR: Military officials say it's one thing for reporters to go to Benghazi, quite another for heavily-armed U.S. commandos to go into the middle of a militia's stronghold and capture one of the most wanted suspects. For "OutFront," Barbara Starr, the Pentagon.


BURNETT: And for more on the Benghazi attacks, including our special investigation, The Truth About Benghazi Documentary, please go to our blog Well, our third story "OutFront" -- Justice for Trayvon. More than a year and a half after George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, the Sanford Police chief is shaking things up, taking on that controversial neighborhood watch program at the center of this story. Zimmerman of course was acquitted of second degree murder. David Mattingly is "OutFront" tonight with the story. Obviously as you remember he as there every single day. And, David, what are the changes that are being made in Sanford?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, the police chief now, Cecil Smith, he went into -- on the job just a couple of months before the Zimmerman trial. And almost immediately he was taking a look at the neighborhood watch program. He said he determined that it just wasn't working so he completely threw it out and now he's about to roll a new one which he's going to announce next week. Right now the details are a little sketchy, but he is saying there will be an emphasis on accountability within the program and there's going to be an emphasis on training. He wants to make sure the people participating in these programs know what they're not supposed to do. They're not supposed to do what George Zimmerman was doing -- carrying a gun and pursuing someone who's acting suspiciously.


CECIL SMITH, SANFORD POLICE CHIEF: In this program , it is clear, clearly stated, that you will not pursue an individual. In our new program, it clearly indicates that you will not carry a firearm while you're in performance of your duties as a neighborhood watch block captain and/or participant.

MATTINGLY: This seems to go a little bit further than what you see in the national handbook for neighborhood watch programs that's put out by the National Sheriff's Association. On page 25 of that 37- page manual, you will see where it's clearly written, it says that, people in a neighborhood watch program are to be the eyes and ears of law enforcement only and they are never to try and take action on their own. Erin.

BURNETT: Now, David, a question for you as someone who covered this from the beginning. People who talk about justice for Trayvon Martin and whether rules in this country will change. Would these new rules mean Trayvon Martin is alive tonight?

MATTINGLY: If George Zimmerman was following the rules at that time, most likely yes, Trayvon Martin would still be alive today. But George Zimmerman always carried this weapon on him at all times, and he was not on patrol per se that night, he was coming back from the grocery. He did pursue Trayvon Martin in his car, he did get out of his car, but he told police he wasn't pursuing him at that point. That he was just trying to get an address of where he was at the time to tell the person -- the police person on the phone where to send officers. So, it's unknown if he would've been felt like he was in that kind of role that night, and it's unknown what he would have done.

BURNETT: All right, David Mattingly. Thank you very much. As we said, David as you know covered this from the beginning. Still to come, European leaders yelling about NSA spying. Turns out they're guilty too. So how do other countries spy on America? The ways are out of a thriller, and we have an "OutFront" special report next. Plus, what has almost everyone excited about Facebook?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BURNETT: Our fourth story "OutFront" -- the Truth About Spies. European lawmakers are in Washington tonight pushing for answers on U.S. surveillance programs. They're outraged over reports of American spying. But they do it too. And the ways other countries spy are often straight out of a thriller. "OutFront" tonight, Tom Foreman. Tom, so how do other countries spy on Americans?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, the short answer is they spy on in every way you can imagine and plenty more you can't.. What's more, intelligence experts widely say this is just the way of the world, everyone is spying on everyone else all the time, so I don't know why everybody is so shocked. For example, reports are emerging that just last month, during the G20 Summit in Russia, there was actually a problem where they had Russian goody bags being handed out to the visiting delegates. And inside were fishy flash drives. If any one diplomat took one of those drives home and plugged it in, he or she would allegedly install software which would automatically start stealing information and sending it to Moscow. The Russian response of course was -- they deny it of course. The Russians say they have their own pressing problem when it comes to this notion of espionage. For example, state-run media there claims that China, way over here, that China has been sending them irons that contain hidden electronics -- not this particular type of iron, but irons, and what do they do? Well, allegedly these irons will tap into Wi-Fi networks to install spy software on nearby computers. Again, this was from the Russian government, meaning there's no proof and undeniably, there's a lot of spying going on.

While we're at it, NPR has reported that China these days has so many government officials spying on each other that officials have found bugs in their cars and in their offices and even in their showers although I'm not sure, Erin, what on earth they would be discussing amid all the suds and shampoo.

BURNETT: I know where you might be going with that, and I had a theory, Tom, which is, the shower is on and people get in the shower to have a conversation because they think any bugs in the room can't pick up the audio.

FOREMAN: You have a devious mind, Erin.

BURNETT: So if you put it in the shower -- I do have a devious mind. I always wanted to be a spy in a second life. All right, but you know, you're talking about all this spying of diplomats and on government leaders, but are they really only spying about political things or is some of this more personal?

FOREMAN: Well, you know, not necessarily all political. And this really is the way it's been for a very long time. People forget about this, but a lot of spying has to do with private companies and economies an d how governments and companies can get a leg up on each other overseas. So, some leaked diplomatic messages for example say that they've had a problem with the French who've been accused of having an empire of evil because they've done so much to steal satellite technology. Again, all these governments deny this sort of thing, and even beyond that, there is sports spying which the French and the Russians and others have long been suspected of -- basically where that consists of them spying on the training regimens of athletes from other companies -


FOREMAN: -- trying to steal their equipment, trying to steal their ideas, trying to steal their nutrition plans -- everything, no matter what you're talking about, when you talk about international competition, Erin, the race is on.

BURNETT: Oh, yes, I'd love to see Airbus and Boeing spy. I think the showerhead would be the least of that. All right, thanks to Tom Foreman. Pretty incredible when you think about it -- what is really going on out there. Well, still to come, bombshell testimony at the murder trial of former doctor Martin MacNeill, why his own daughters believe now that he killed their mother. Plus a mysterious plane crash at a major American airport. And here's the thing that will just stun you. No one noticed for seven hours? And the President today got heckled.


BURNETT: So what did he do next? You'll see.


BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT.

A plane crash left the pilot dead and no one noticed. A bizarre event, air traffic control audio shows that people on the ground at Nashville International Airport were caught by surprise. Hours after the plane crashed, another pilot was taxiing and noticed debris on the runway. That's how they found out. Minutes later, the airport was closed with planes waiting to be cleared for takeoff.


PILOT: Do you know what we can expect? I know they closed the airport, do you know why and approximately how long?

TOWER: Acey 1554, roger. There was an airplane crash at the end of runway 2-center. Hope it won't be very long and we'll have that back open for you.


BURNETT: That's just bizarre, right? Not only did no one see the Cessna Skyhawk coming to the airport, no one saw it crashed, which is a pretty frightening thing when you think about this being an international airport. The control tower is staffed 24 hours a day. But the remnants of the plane sat on the tarmac, as I said, for nearly seven hours.


JAY NEYLON, NTSB AIR SAFETY INVESTIGATOR: We understand working with the airport authority that there was a runway sweep some time around 2:00 a.m. on the day of the accident. And then, they were notified about 8:45 a.m. by a general aviation aircraft, that there was debris on the runway.


BURNETT: The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating that there was dense fog at the time of the crash, but investigators don't know if it was a factor. They're also looking at radar and air traffic control tapes, to see if they can explain how to pilot ended up in Nashville. They weren't expecting him. He was actually supposed to be going to Ontario, Canada.

Well, Facebook's stocks soared briefly today after blowing away Wall Street sales and profits expectations. The sales surged 60 percent over the year. Sales, when you look at Facebook, are really ads and mobile ads, which were launched last summer -- needed to be the powerhouse and have become that. Now, about half the company's revenue. That was the good news.

The bad news, though, was a decline in users among younger Americans teens which, of course, is the pipeline for Facebook. The CFO of Facebook shrugged it off as mostly insignificant. But, of course, the next big hot IPO Twitter, they've been bragging that they're getting all those users and stealing them from Facebook.

Well, the newest panda cub at the national zoo in Washington is now weighing in at 7.7 pounds. I mean, that's almost like a human baby except for this little thing grows to be as big as 220 pounds and can be very mean and nasty. Soon, she will be able to see the world with her own eyes, though. They are almost fully open.

It is clear, though, that all eyes are on her, because the shutdown is over, the panda cam is up. And concerned panda cam viewers, they were worried that she might get her head stuck between den bars. So, the zoo measured them, and we can report the cubs head is larger than the width of the bars. So she's going to be fine and grow up to be whatever kind of panda she wants.

Our fifth story OUTFRONT: car bombs, suicide bombers, and violent murder in the streets. These are headlines coming out of Iraq. Is it America's doing?

Nearly two years after the U.S. pulled out of the country, violence is overwhelming. More than 6,000 people have been killed in Iraq this year. Every single day here at CNN, I get an e-mail about bombings of innocent people.

Our Chris Lawrence is OUTFRONT.


CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The bad old days are back. But it's not 2008. It's Sunday, multiple car bombs exploded across Baghdad. Killing at left a 35 people and wounding 100. The week before, a suicide bomber blew himself up in a coffee shop, leaving at least 24 dead. And before that, it was eight worshippers getting killed in a mosque when a car bomb exploded outside.

Those are the big headlines but small scale attacks happen every day.

On Wednesday, Vice President Biden kicked off high level talks with Iraq's leader Nouri al-Maliki.

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're committed to strengthening the security in Iraq.

LAWRENCE: Critics on Capitol Hill accused Maliki of steering his country into another civil war.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The situation is deteriorating and it's unraveling, and he's got to turn it around.

LAWRENCE: This week, Senators wrote President Obama, urging him to reengage with Iraq, increase U.S. assistance and pressure Maliki to loosen his growing ties to Tehran.

JESSICA LEWIS, INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF WAR: I think it would be a bad thing for us if he finds his best option for partnership is Iran.

LAWRENCE: Jessica Lewis is an Iraq expert and former Army intelligence officer.

She says Maliki needs to stop cracking down on Iraqis who aren't part of his coalition and focus on al Qaeda's explosive growth there.

(on camera): Is this version of al Qaeda doing more than just randomly placed car bombs?

LEWIS: They are naming campaigns, setting campaign objectives, militarily achieving those objectives. They have phased operations. The Iraqi security forces don't.

LAWRENCE: Al Qaeda in Iraq has already exported fighters to Syria. It may not stop there.

LEWIS: This is going to be something that is a security concern for us as well.


LAWRENCE: And it's going to be at the top of the agenda when President Obama meets with Maliki on Friday. The Iraqis are already buying some fighter jets from the U.S. but Maliki is going to be pushing for more offensive weapons like attack helicopters to go after the militants and drones to patrol the border with Syria.

On the other hand, the U.S. is supportive of that effort, but they're going to want some things as well. Specifically, they want Iraq to stop those over-flights by Iran that has been airlifting supplies into Syria -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much, Chris Lawrence.

So many questions about whether or not Maliki is an ally of the United States, as Chris said. A big question.

Our sixth story OUTFRONT: Booed off the stage.

So, the commissioner of police in New York, Ray Kelly, was supposed to speak at Brown University, one of the top universities in the United States. But instead, this happened last night.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Racism is not for debate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're asking that you stop stopping and frisking people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many people do not want to hear Ray Kelly?



BURNETT: After almost 30 minutes of that, school officials canceled the speech. The students were protesting the New York Police Department's stop and frisk tactics. Basically, critics say that police officers racially profile people.

Now, Brown's president says the conduct is indefensible. The hecklers argue it's free speech.

OUTFRONT tonight, Mediaite's Joe Concha and filmmaker Safiya Songhai.

And I want to go beyond this. But, Joe, let me start with you. The Brown University students say, look, we're standing up for their principles, for principle. We know this is true. We shouldn't have to listen to something that is so offensive and so false. We should be able to boo someone off the stage.


JOE CONCHA, MEDIAITE COLUMNIST: No. The format of that particular town hall was supposed to be question and answer. Ray Kelly speaks, he makes a point. You can ask him a question. He'll give you an answer.

The only way you're going to be able to solve any problem is to actually listen once in a while. To boo somebody off the stage -- I got to tell you, Erin, this is pretty indicative of what young peel have been used to ever since they could work a remote control. Let's think about this for a second, all right? There are two things that are prominent on television, reality TV. And what's the basis of that? Confrontation, all right? Snooki is in the bar in Seaside Heights, in Jersey shore, boom, she gets hit in the face and the highest ratings in the MTV show ever, right?

The second is cable news. Brown University students say, OK, let me say what debates like on cable news. Not this network so much, a little bit more civilized here. But your competitors? And particularly on MSNBC where the race card is played often and it's people yelling at each other, and the audience is sitting at home saying, I've learned nothing.

They see that. That's the example. They bring to Ray Kelly the way they did yesterday.

BURNETT: So, Sophia, the president of Brown University says it was a sad day for the school. So, they're going along with what Joe says. But you don't really agree.

SAFIYA SONGHAI, FILMMAKER: I think it's a day of victory. We're looking at a generation of people that overall people think are sitting on the sidelines, tweeting and Facebooking their angst about the world, but that day, you know, yesterday, Brown University students who are not your average students. These people are going to be on the front line of society. They are Ivy League kids.

They are saying very openly that they're not just going to exercise their rights of free speech. They are not going to sit on the sidelines of issues like racial profiling and, you know, sit on social media outlets. To me, it's a day of victory because the millennials have spoken and they spoke to their adversary so much so, they shut him down.

CONCHA: Victory, Erin. Victory over Ray Kelly, a guy who has been the New York City Police commissioner since 2012, lowered crime in the city by 30 percent. Regardless of how he did it, it's still a safer city. And, oh, by the way, no attacks since 9/11 despite more than a couple people documented here have tried.

So, he at least deserves the respect of being heard and not being yelled off a stage, so you can say victory like you're Johnny drama.

BURNETT: Safiya, let me just play for you some of the protesters outside the event so you can hear a little more of the chants, everybody here, so you can decide for yourself.


PROTESTERS: Ray Kelly you can't hide! We charge you with homicide!


BURNETT: Does on it some level, doesn't this cross the line? You want they will to be passionate. If they keep doing things like, this respect they going on make our colonel lawmakers look effective, when they're the lawmakers?

SONGHAI: I mean, you know, Commissioner Kelly's right to free speech has not ended. He has many other platforms to speak. He has definitely promoted, you know, proactive policing.


SONGHAI: But this was an opportunity for people who are affected by this to say this is not a minor thing. This does lead to people's death. This does lead to the death of a quality of life for black and brown and -- black and brown people, as well as those that practice the Muslim faithful these are all Americans.

I'm a part of the tapestry. My family has been here for centuries, as have many other people's families and there is no reason why we should create a second class citizen again in 2013. I thought we got past that. But we're always bringing it back and they're stand -- I feel like this generation is saying I don't want that for my adulthood.

BURNETT: I guess the question is, you guys are having this conversation so civilly. That was not civil.


BURNETT: Right. Is that the way to handle it? That brings to what happened today. Hecklers at the president's speech in Boston. Let me play that because I really enjoyed how he shut them down.






BURNETT: Then he continued to say, hey, guys, climate change was last summer. I'm here for health care. Basically, go take a hike and he did it in a funny way and he told them to beat it.

But the president gets heckled. This has happened before. Then the crowd responds with boos. Civility seems to be dead. Why is this happening?

SONGHAI: Well, I think it's very similar to what Joe said. We live in a climate where we have media constantly, showing people at each other's throats, from the Snookis of the world to the political commentators. It doesn't end.


BURNETT: Senator Coburn called Harry Reid an absolute a-hole yesterday.

CONCHA: Right. And it goes beyond what's going on with people's (inaudible). It is what people are doing with their fingers.

Now, I'm an online journalist. I can tell you, any comment that I write gets personal and nasty in a comment section in a hurry.

BURNETT: Oh, yes.

CONCHA: Why is that? Because people can do it anonymously. When you're anonymous, there are therefore no consequences.

You know the one place where things are kind of civil in social media? Facebook. Why is that? Your face is attached and your name is there and suddenly there are consequences.

Like when you drive down the road and somebody cuts you off. And you give them the finger. There are no consequences.

If you're walking down the street and somebody cut you off, would you do the same thing? No, you're not.

So, that's what's happening now. It's incivility all around, not just at campuses but also social media and then what we're seeing on TV. It's a combination of all these things.

SONGHAI: It turns us into like a whole -- a bunch of teenagers. It turns -- it keeps us stuck in a 15-year-old mentality. The main thing to remember is when you start name-calling, your point can't be heard because it makes it look like you've already lost. It looks like you're nothing left except for name-calling.


BURNETT: Well, you look pathetic. You've got to take the high road. But as we can see, unfortunately, it's very hard for a lot of people.

CONCHA: You would expect at least on Ivy League schools that this wouldn't happen. It happened in Columbia also with General Petraeus who was yelled at going down the street as well. He fought two wars -- come on, man. Show him a little respect.

Same with Ray Kelly. Disagree with him, fine. Don't yell him off the stage. You're not going to learn anything, by the way, kids. OK?

BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks to both of you.

And still to come, another day of bizarre testimony at the murder trial of former Dr. Martin MacNeill. The daughters turned on their dad.


BURNETT: Our seventh story OUTFRONT: Daughters turn on their dad.

Bombshell testimony today from the children of the Utah doctor accused of murdering his wife. The women revealing details about their father's affair and their mother's state of mine in the days that followed her facelift. It was an operation Martin MacNeill claims ultimately led to his wife turning up dead in their bathtub.

We begin our coverage with Jean Casarez, OUTFRONT.



JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One by one, they took the stand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mom was my best friend.

CASAREZ: Three sisters testifying against their father, Martin MacNeill, accused of murdering his wife so he could share a future with his mistress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is Martin MacNeill?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he in the court today?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is he seated, Vanessa?

MACNEILL: Right there.

CASAREZ: Vanessa describing for the jury a message she retrieved from her mother's cell phone shortly after her death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you, in fact, tell investigators that your dad told your mom to not go anywhere? To take it easy?

SOMERS: Uh-huh. My father picked up the phone. He said that, your mother is not breathing. She is in the bathtub.

CASAREZ: Daughter Alexis, now a doctor, is convinced her father murdered her mother. Prosecutors say Martin MacNeill forced his wife Michelle to have a facelift, then plied her with a laundry list of painkillers and depressants.

SOMERS: My dad was telling the plastic surgeon what medication he wanted. It was -- I vividly remember this. He told me that he gave her the Arnica, the Valium, the Lortab, the Phenergan and then gave her two Percocets at 1:30 a.m. and then one Ambien at 1:30 a.m.

CASAREZ: Prosecutors say MacNeill was intentionally poisoning his wife of 30 years so he could marry his mistress, Gypsy Willis. SOMERS: And she said, Lexi, I don't know why, but your dad kept giving me medication. I went to my father and I said, what happened? Obviously, mom is overmedicated. She said she didn't want my dad to give her any more medication. She wanted me to be in charge.

CASAREZ: Alexis was always suspicious of Willis and says her father didn't wait long after her mother's funeral to move his lover into their home.

SOMERS: My dad called me on the phone and said, Alexis, I found the perfect nanny. I said, well, dad, what's her name? He started to say he said Jill -- I said, dad, Gypsy Jillian Willis? I know that woman. I know mom was worried you're having an affair with her and you're not to bring her in this home.

CASAREZ: On cross-examination, defense attorney Randy Spencer (ph) tried to show that Alexis was a bias witness against her father and has changed her story over the years.

RANDY SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You've just given new testimony that you haven't given anytime before?

SOMERS: No, I just answered the specific questions that I've been asked.

CASAREZ: Anna Walthall, another former mistress of the married doctor testified how during pillow talk, Martin told her he knew a way to cover up a murder.

ANNA WALTHALL, MARTIN MACNEILL'S FORMER MISTRESS: There is something you can give someone that is natural that is there after they have a heart attack so that it's not deductible after they have a heart attack.

SPENCER: So, you can give someone some sort of substance naturally occurring in the body and would be there after the heart attack but it would also start a heart attack.


SPENCER: So, you could cause someone to have a heart attack and the drug, which is supposed to be there anyway, so you wouldn't be able to tell?

WALTHALL: That's correct.


CASAREZ: And what Randy Spencer actually did on cross- examination of Alexis, up on the witness stand, he had her preliminary hearing transcript, her official report to investigators and numerous interviews with investigators, and point by point, he tried to show that she had different answers in the past, currently brand-new answers to show that she was not a credible witness.

But, now, five daughters have testified against their father and, Erin, when Vanessa walked into courtroom today, her hands were violently shaking before she took stand. When she walked down from the stand she walked next to her father and she actually smiled at him as she left the courtroom.

BURNETT: That's eerie. Thank you, Jean.

Well, now, let's bring in our legal analyst Paul Callan.

Paul, first of all, as you heard Jean say, five of MacNeill's daughters, eight children -- five of them have now turned against him. How does the defense get past that?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this is devastating for the defense. I mean, obviously, if your own kids think you murdered their mother, the jurors are going to think, that's pretty compelling. He's their father. They should love him and be loyal to him.

So, I think that really is a big blow to the defense, but I'm not sure that he still gets convicted because you have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and how did the death happen.

BURNETT: Right. And how did the death happen? And also, the witnesses, I mean, there are -- you know, Jean has been reporting on this, there are questions, right? One of his daughters, a former drug addict, another was some sort of bipolar disorder. His other mistress, Anna Walthall, with disassociate identity disorder. I don't totally even understand what that it is. But that is another problem, right?

I mean, they have -- if you can't trust the messenger, how do you get past that reasonable doubt?

CALLAN: Well, as we say in court, they have baggage, OK? All of these witnesses have ha major problems. So, if you're looking for reasonable doubt, you may find a little reasonable doubt in each portion of the testimony.

And how did he do it? I mean, the medical examiner -- when the medical examiner does the autopsy, the medical examiner said she died of natural causes.

BURNETT: And the mistress said he'd explained to her in pillow talk how he can do that.

CALLAN: But what is his magic method of doing it? He's saying I know a way to do it, without anybody knowing it. But does the prosecutor know? Is the prosecutor going to call a medical expert to say, there is a drug you can give and it makes it look like a heart attack when it's not really?

That's what they need to make this a compelling case. Right now --

BURNETT: So, even saying that and having your wife die of that could still be a coincidence?

CALLAN: Listen, he could be -- he could have done it but you have to prove that he did it.


CALLAN: And just saying that doesn't make it true. You have to prove how the death occurred, what was the mechanism of death and link it to the defendant.

And I don't think they have done it yet. Now, there is more to come in the case, so we'll see. But they've got to provide that link.


CALLAN: You know, the level of drugs was therapeutic, according to the medical examiner, when they first examine the toxicology report. She didn't overdose on any drugs at all. If he's going to kill her deliberately, wouldn't he have her overdose on drugs? Well, prosecuting says no.

BURNETT: Fair point.

CALLAN: Prosecutors says no. So, you know, I don't know. It's a fascinating, fascinating case.

BURNETT: It is a fascinating case. And as Paul points out, beyond a reasonable doubt. Obviously, the bottom line question that must be proved.

Still to come, Ashton Kutcher, real life engineer.


BURNETT: So, Ashton Kutcher has a new job. He's officially been named celebrity pitch man and product engineer for the Chinese PC company Lenovo, which, of course, owns IBM's personal computer business. That means Kutcher is going to offer advice on design and software for Lenovo's new Yoga tablets and he'll also appear on commercials.

Now, you might go seriously? How is a guy from "Two and A Half Man," "Dude, Where is My Car", "That '70s Show" and "Punk'd" a part of Lenovo's production teams, software and engineering? I mean, sure, he played Steve Jobs in a recent movie, that certainly does not mean he will ever be Steve Jobs.

So, what is Lenovo thinking?

Well, that brings me to tonight's number: $65 million. According to CrunchBase's calculations, the investment company that Ashton Kutcher co-founded, A-Grade Investments, has partnered with other investors to dedicate $65 million to a dozen startups, most of them tech companies. He's also the co-founder of Catalyst Network, which is a company that creates award-winning content for companies, including Kelloggs, Mountain Dew and Levi's.

And, of course, Ashton is tech-savvy in his own life. He was the first person to get a million Twitter followers. Inventor bits (ph) profile of the actor entitled, "Wait, Ashton Kutcher might actually be a smart investor." He's praised for being the first in startups, including Skype, Spotify and Foursquare.

Here is how we takeaway from this, one thing is for sure, Ashton puts his money where his mouth is and he has a heck of a lot more than an actor.

"AC360" starts now.