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Second Witness Testifies against Martin MacNeill; Interview with Vice President Biden; Serial Rapist May Be Released; Chris Brown in Rehab

Aired October 30, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, we`ve got an exclusive HLN interview with the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden. And what he says about the U.S. government`s disastrous health-care Web site is stunning. You`ll hear it in a second.

But first, the wealthy doctor accused of murdering his beauty-queen wife is confronted with yet another mistress on the witness stand. That`s right, the second mistress takes the stand.

Prosecutors claim the affair with mistress Gypsy, the one on the left, was the doctor`s motive for drowning his wife in their bathtub. Well, today, another one of his former secret lovers testified. And get this: as she and the defendant engaged in pillow talk one night, she says he told her about how to get away with murder. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did that relationship ever become sexual?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it fair to say that you and Dr. MacNeill began an affair?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Martin ever describe to you a process of making someone have a heart attack?

WALTHALL: Yes, there`s something you can give someone that`s natural that`s there after they have a heart attack so that it`s not detectable after they have a heart attack.



Another shocker came from the defendant`s daughter, Alexis. She is convinced her dad is a calculated murderer. Alexis testified just a month before her mom`s death her parents had a blow-up fight over her dad`s affair with the mistress named Gypsy, the other mistress.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s in the bathtub?


ALEXIS MACNEILL, VICTIM`S DAUGHTER: My mom had confided in me that she was concerned that my dad was having an affair.

GYPSY WILLIS, FORMER MISTRESS OF MARTIN MACNEILL: I think we probably had sex half the time. Sometimes it was just lunch.

A. MACNEILL: "I know that woman. I know mom was worried you were having an affair with her."

WALTHALL: Pillow talk. You know, after you have sex and you`re just laying [SIC] there, and you feel close. And you talk a little more openly.


A. MACNEILL: My mom had confronted him previously, but she confronted him again at that time and said, "You know, I don`t believe your story."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Do you know how to do CPR?

M. MACNEILL: I`m doing it!



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he kept hanging up before the 911 operator could get the address. Coincidence?

I`ve got a fantastic Lion`s Den debate panel tonight. Even my buddy Danny Bonaduce.

A pair of mistresses took the stand, but a lot of men have mistresses, and they don`t kill their wives. However, the defendant`s daughter may provide a motive when she testifies less than a month before her mom was murdered she heard Mom and Dad arguing over the mistress, and Mom said to her dad, "I am not going to let this die."

So I want to go out to a real expert, Mandy Stadtmiller. Now, your dad was the product of an affair. You were cheated on, and you slept with a married man. You`re a triple winner. No, seriously, you`re an expert. You`re an expert on this stuff.

So is it possible that Mrs. MacNeill, who died in the tub, entered a deadly zone when she took the blinders off and said, "Hey, I know you have a mistress, husband, and I`m not ignoring it anymore"?

MANDY STADTMILLER, DEPUTY EDITOR, XOJANE.COM: I think when you confront a sociopath on their lies, there`s nothing more enraging to them. And what I think is interesting about the multiple mistresses is that it`s kind of like mice. You never have just one. When someone`s involved in an affair, there`s usually going to be multiple women involved, multiple layers of lies, because it`s very exciting for someone who thrives on that kind of deceit.

And when you start to confront them on those lies, there`s nothing more enraging. It`s almost like the Walter White syndrome. When you look at the things that would make Walter White so angry on "Breaking Bad..."


STADTMILLER: ... it was being confronted with his lies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, of course. Nobody wants to be confronted with the truth.

Danny Bonaduce, talk show host, KZOK 102.5 Seattle. To confront somebody with the truth about something that they`re maybe ashamed of and they want to protect. I mean, I believe Dr. Martin MacNeill was desperately in love with this mistress, Gypsy. You confront and say, "I know and I`m not going to put up with it," and then that becomes the motive for murder.

DANNY BONADUCE, TALK SHOW HOST, KZOK 102.5 SEATTLE: It does become a motive. But you have to keep in mind, I think, the No. 1 issue with men is self-preservation. Doesn`t everybody know when your wife goes missing or dead the first person the police look at is the husband? The husband with the mistress? How did he not know he was going to get caught?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, because he was very arrogant -- and let`s not convict him. He`s on trial right now, so he may be acquitted. In fact, there`s a good chance he`s going to be acquitted.

But a lot of witnesses, including his own adult daughters, seem to paint a portrait of a very arrogant man. He was a doctor and a lawyer. He had fudged records on his college-level-style exams that show that he was a master of deceit from way, way back.

These are the three daughters who are devastated. This has shattered their lives. One of them, the one with the head band, has become a heroin addict and she`s now in recovery, thank God. Way to go. But of course it would drive you to want to check out, to think that your dad murdered your mother?

The defendant`s daughter says her mom was very, very well aware of her dad`s infidelity. Now, this adult daughter, Alexis, said she actually did some spying, some detective work to confirm for her mother that dad was seeing a mistress and the mistress was Gypsy Willis.


A. MACNEILL: My parents were in their bedroom arguing. She wanted the phone records so he could -- she could see if he was still calling the number that belonged to Gypsy Jillian Willis. My mom had confronted him previously, but she confronted him again at that time and said, you know, "I don`t believe your story. I want the phone records. I`m not going to let this die." That`s what she said.

She had me go online. It`s called Intellis (ph). It`s a place where you can put a phone number in and pay, I think it was 60 or 70 bucks to figure out who -- whose name was associated with that phone number.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Mandy, I want to go back to this. You`re the expert in this issue. I think it`s very dangerous for a woman to do the detective work, find out, yes, my husband`s having an affair and here`s the name of the woman and then confront.

What you should do is call a lawyer, get the heck out of Dodge, get into a safe place with your kids, and then let him know that you know. Otherwise, well, look what could happen.

STADTMILLER: I think that`s what`s the most tragic part of all of this is that`s how deeply the hurt goes, is that you`re willing to risk your life. Because clearly, she knew the level of pathology that she was dealing with in her husband. And there`s probably part of her that knew that it was a very dangerous thing to confront him.

But that`s how deep the humiliation can run, is that you don`t even care about your personal safety. You just want to call out a liar on his lies and have that kind of personal redemption that "I`m not crazy. I haven`t been making all of these things up."

But I absolutely agree with you that you shouldn`t -- you shouldn`t do that on your own. You need to get a lot of advocacy that falls in line with legal resources and other methods.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know what they say. When a guy -- when a love partner is making you feel crazy, you ain`t crazy. You`re on to something.

STADTMILLER: Right. Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, so -- and she was definitely not crazy. She was onto something. And then when she let him know that she was onto something, whoops. Then less than a month later, she`s dead in the tub. Coincidence? And her adult daughters say no. They have plenty of evidence.

For example, Alexis is really the star witness against the prosecution. And I have to tell you, the defense was claiming, "Well, Alexis, you`re bitter. You`ve been disinherited by your father. You`ve always pretty much hated him. You`ve accused him of terrible things of a sexual nature sometimes. And so you are really twisting now, your story, OK, of what your mom said in the hours before she died." Listen to this exchange.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you`re saying is it took a while for you to put together your story, correct?

A. MACNEILL: No, that`s not what I was saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you -- you expressed your memories of what happened, and then you got the phone records, which were inconsistent with your memories. And so you then changed your story.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To harmonize with the phone records.

A. MACNEILL: No, that`s -- I think I was just getting the times wrong. But -- I mean, I know for a fact this -- this is when I talked with my mom for the last time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a big problem for the prosecution. A lot of these witnesses, the children, most of whom seem to believe that their dad did it, can`t remember a lot of details. Well, she was killed six years ago. So he has the advantage in that regard.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Jodi, Florida, what do you have to say about all this, Jodi, Florida?

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Love your show.


CALLER: I have one question. Did the son`s suicide have anything to do with his mother`s death?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me address that. The adult son of the MacNeills. Could we show a picture of how perfect they look? This is a seemingly perfect family. Eight children, four of them adopted. The dad, who is now accused of murder, a doctor and a lawyer. Look at these beautiful daughters that they produced.

The mom is -- was before she died, a beauty queen, OK. Had won beauty pageants.

But if you scratch the surface of this perfect family -- look how perfect they look -- it`s one toxic secret after another. Now, we`ve already talked about dad`s a serial cheater. Mom`s death destroys the family. As this caller referred to, one son commits suicide. And now you`re going to hear the testimony of a daughter who admits she got hooked on heroin.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been convicted of a felony?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was that?

V. MACNEILL: Possession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possession of what?

V. MACNEILL: Of heroin.


Are you a drug addict?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Are you presently clean?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you describe the circumstances of learning of your mom`s death?

V. MACNEILL: I got a phone call from my brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s your brother?

V. MACNEILL: Damian.


V. MACNEILL: I think I threw the phone against the wall, broke the phone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Danny Bonaduce, you know, you and I have talked a lot about recovery. I mean, this woman in recovery from heroin addiction. But to have -- to walk around thinking your dad killed your mom, isn`t that enough to turn you to addiction?

BONADUCE: To send you into a relapse, I would think walking around -- you just walking around with a secret or a grudge is enough. Walking around wondering if your dad killed your beauty-queen mother, I would think this girl is walking on a razor`s edge to a relapse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have such compassion for these daughters. And you know what? This is not a slam dunk. Their dad could walk. We`re going to stay on top of it.

Up next, an extraordinary, exclusive interview. HLN`s Christi Paul talks to Vice President Joe Biden about the Obama care fiasco. You won`t believe what he tells her. You don`t want to miss this.

And he`s not the only one being drilled about all of this. We`ll tell you. It`s unbelievable what`s happening right now. Who should take the blame? Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why aren`t you losing your health insurance?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Because I`m part of the federal employees...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why aren`t you in the exchange? You`re in charge of this law. Correct? Why aren`t you in the exchange?

SEBELIUS: Because I`m part of the federal employee health...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why aren`t you in the exchange? Why won`t you go into the exchange?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re the architect of the whole program, and you won`t go into it with the rest of the American public.

SEBELIUS: I did not say that, sir. I think it`s illegal for me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not illegal. If it`s legal, will you go in?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some people like to drink out of a red Solo cup, not a crystal stem. You`re taking away their choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how you keep your cool.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The White House Web site says, if you like your health plan you have, you can keep it.

SEBELIUS: I`m accountable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the president`s ultimate responsibility, correct?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This just in: breaking news. The vice president of the United States says he didn`t try to get onto the Obama care Web site, because he knew he wouldn`t be able to. Are you kidding me? No.

HLN`s Christi Paul got this exclusive interview with Vice President Biden just minutes ago, and you will not believe what he has to say.


CHRISTI PAUL, HLN CORRESPONDENT: What did you know prior to the Web site being launched?

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We were under the impression that it was ready to go. The president, to his credit, almost seven weeks out was "Are we ready?" And to be told by the pros, "Yes, this looks like it`s all ready to go, all aligned" and that. And neither he nor I are -- are technology geeks. And we assumed that it was up and ready to run.

But the good news is, although it`s not and we apologize for that, we`re confident that by the end of November, it will be and there`ll still be plenty of time for people to register and go online.

PAUL: Have you tried to get online yourself?

BIDEN: No, actually, the president tried to get online and my daughter tried to get online. I did not, because it was clear that I wasn`t getting online. So -- but it really is. It`s inexcusable. I mean, there`s no -- there`s no excuse. We just have to fix it. And so we pulled out all the stops and brought in the best people in the country, and we`re assured that we can be done by the end of November.

PAUL: November. Do you know why it will still take another month?

BIDEN: Well, I -- look, all I know is they talk about 50,000 lines of this and this. I don`t know the technical reasons. But they say the platform -- the way they explain to me, the platform is -- is fine. But they had to change an awful lot of the inputs. So I don`t know. I wish I could tell you. That`s why I became a lawyer.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Way to go, Christi Paul, with that exclusive interview with the vice president. He even shook her hand and said, "I apologize."

Now, all this happened at a domestic violence event in Austin, Texas, an effort to prevent domestic violence.

Now, what the vice president said about the Obama care Web site certainly plays into today`s White House apology tour. Straight out to "Newsday" columnist and social commentator Ellis Henican.

You know, apologies are nice. CNN has learned the administration was warned by the main contractor a month before the launch that this Web site was not ready to go. So even though they say, "Well, we`re not technology geeks," why didn`t they anticipate this fiasco and do something to prevent it instead of waiting for it to happen and then apologizing?

ELLIS HENICAN, COLUMNIST, "NEWSDAY": Well, of course. Honestly, think about all the apologizing we`re getting. Not since Jimmy Swaggert was apologizing for hookers on the Airline (ph) highway have we seen more apologizing then we`ve gotten in the past 24 hours. The "I`m sorry`s" good, but it`s not nearly enough, I`m afraid.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean, listen, I do -- I do have a certain admiration for taking full responsibility when you are wrong, promptly admit it. That is a 12-step philosophy that I end up apologizing probably once a day.

And certainly, do I wish that previous administrations had apologized in a more forthright fashion for mistakes that they made about things like weapons of mass destruction that ultimately were far more calamitous than what we`re talking about here, but this is a life and death matter. There are people whose lives are on the line.

And if they were warned. If they were warned, what is the mentality of somebody, an official who`s warned, "Hey, you know, you`re not the technology geeks. We are. And we`re telling you it`s not ready to be launched."

And they say, "Well, we`re going to launch it anyway." Is that arrogance?

HENICAN: Well, yes, it`s arrogance. I`m just trying to think about the poor I.T. person at the White House who`s coming in while Barack is in the Oval Office, saying, "God, I can`t get this thing to work. I`m sure I`m just pushing the wrong button. Can`t you come and help me?"

Jane, an apology is nice. That`s the first step, not the last step. In the end, I think American people are very happy to have someone take responsibility. But you know what? Make the damn Web site work. If they`ll do that, all this other stuff won`t be such a problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, what`s so crazy about this is that this is the signature accomplishment of this administration. This was a victory to get this through. Talk about snatching defeat from the mouth of victory. I mean, really, it`s like people are forgetting about the victory, and they`re focusing -- of course, my gosh, his opponents want to focus on the mishaps. They want to make it all about the mishaps so they can undermine the entire thing.

HENICAN: Listen, one of the first rules of politics, Jane, is do not hand your opponents the weapon that they`re going to knock you over the head with, right?

And frankly, this thing is so self-inflicted. We haven`t even gotten to the point of people having the experience, having folks, tens of millions of people who used to -- didn`t used to be able to afford insurance, now they`re getting it. You know what? You never even get to the good part of the story if everyone is just road-blocked at the log-in button. And frankly, that`s the way this thing is frozen right now. It`s just self-inflicted and it is dumb.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there is another scandal. And I`ll give you a hint. And I`ve got it right over here. What`s a little spying amongst friends? Is it OK if the NSA is tapping the phones of world leaders? Even our allies? That`s next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you make of that? Monitoring the cell-phone calls of the chancellor of Germany, our ally?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I think that`s the name of the game. Countries do that to one another.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s become an excuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. government is all acting on these kind of things.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Spy versus spy. That`s right. It`s even on the cover of the "New York Post."

The latest scandal, the U.S. government is accused of monitoring the cell-phone conversations of this woman, Angela Merkel. She just happens to be the chancellor of Germany, one of our biggest allies, and we allegedly did it for more than a decade.

So many new charges that our government is spying on its allies and U.S. citizens. It reminds me of the Will Smith hit movie, "Enemy of the State."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was unsuspecting.

WILL SMITH, ACTOR: Am I in the wrong house? Hello? Eric?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was unaware.

SMITH: You are the only woman in the world for me. You and Janet Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, what he doesn`t know...

SMITH: I`d like to report a break-in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... could kill him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, it`s just a movie, right? Well, have you heard of the George Orwell novel "1984"? Even though it`s 2013. It brought us the phrase "Big Brother is watching you."

And then there`s another phrase, double speak. Twisting language to make something sound like the opposite of what it really is. A fancy way of lying.

So listen to our head of national intelligence testify. And you tell me if you think what he`s saying is double speak.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we do not do is spy unlawfully on Americans or, for that matter, spy indiscriminately on the citizens of any country. As long as I`ve been in the intelligence business, 50 years, leadership intentions in whatever form that`s expressed was kind of a basic tenet of what we are to collect and analyze.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whatever. Have U.S. government agencies like NSA, the National Security Agency, gotten so powerful they feel nobody has the right to hold them accountable. And they can say whatever they want. This all will be good.

It`s dangerous. The government is losing its credibility. Want to go back to "Newsday" columnist Ellis Henican.

Do you think we know only the half of it? Do you think they`re lying and minimizing the vast amount of spying they are actually doing?

HENICAN: Did you say the half of it, Jane? We know like 10 percent of what these people know. If Barack Obama -- seriously -- what he ought to be worrying about is not whether Angela Merkel was spied on but whether he`s being spied on, right?

These people, the espionage folks, they`re the permanent government. The presidents, I mean, they come and go. We get them from office temporaries. These are the folks who never leave, know everything, and do what they want.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And guess what? We`ve got some breaking news. We are just now hearing that not only is the government spying on foreign leaders but has also allegedly accessed Google and Yahoo! This is a developing story just coming in.

Google says it was, quote, "troubled" by allegations of the government intercepting traffic between our data centers, and we are not aware of this activity. And, quote, "We have been long concerned about the possibility of this kind of snooping, which is why we continue to extend encryption across more and more Google services and links."

You know, I think that`s the biggest story of the year, as far as I`m concerned. Talk about Big Brother is watching you. What the heck? Ellis.

HENICAN: That encryption, I mean, come on. That`s not going to keep them from your -- from your e-mails or your tweets or your text messages. Honest to God, I really think they`ve got the technology. They are not going to refuse to use it, because they want to know this stuff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, they do. Danny Bonaduce, this -- America is about freedom, and it`s also about respect for privacy, what we do in our home. And that is connected to this. I mean, this is terrifying. To me.

BONADUCE: Well, this is terrifying, and I love your reference to double speak, because that`s exactly what that was. That man was speaking clearly, decisively and probably meaning almost all of the opposite of what he was saying.

But privacy, it`s an Americans` end right, but the fact is, all the other countries do do it. We do have to deal with that. That gentleman from, I believe it was the "Post," who said...


BONADUCE: ... president needs to be afraid if we`re spying on him. That`s absolutely right. There are no more secrets. There are just no more secrets.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I think that it`s very scary. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Those people who have the power. They`re the ones with the real power, not the president. The ones behind those doors, the ones -- not those people. Those probably are underlings. I`m talking about the ones deep -- deep, deep, behind those morals there. Inside the National Security Agency. Those are the ones with the real power. And spirit.

On the other side, speaking of scary, we`re going to show you a man who admitted to sexually assaulting 40 women. And he may be walking out of prison soon and back into the neighborhood, to live next door to families.

We`re going to talk to a woman who says, "I don`t want him living near me."


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... living a couple doors from you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not safe. Not at all. Not for me, not for my community. Not for anybody.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he`s a mental sick case and they`re going to put him here in a community full of kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hubbart admitted to raping and molesting women at two-week intervals over a two-and-a-half-year period from 1969 to 1972. Approximately 40 rapes Hubbart admitted to over the next ten years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He belongs in a mental institution in the state hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But was never charged for approximately 70 unreported rapes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight in the war on women tonight, outrage and fury as news breaks that a dangerous predator could be unleashed into society by the end of the year. This man, Christopher Hubbart has admitted to sexually assaulting about 40 women in the `70s and `80s. In fact, he reportedly told authorities he raped an additional 70 women but they failed to report the crimes.

During his reign of terror in Los Angeles, he was dubbed the pillow case rapist. Yes, remember that? This violent criminal has been locked up in a state hospital for decades. Somehow a judge has ruled the man who may have raped more than 100 women is no longer a threat. Hubbart could be released as soon as December. Residents in a southern California community where he would live if he`s released are understandably terrified.

Listen to this.


NICHOLE STONE, RESIDENT: I wouldn`t want to come home if he moved in. I wouldn`t even want to risk being here. And how is that fair to me? To be forced not to come home out of fear from him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Walsh, psychologist, the neighborhood that Hubbart may be placed in is filled with young families. It`s close to schools and playgrounds. I also think this is an example of institutionalized sexism.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I don`t know, Jane, if it`s institutionalized sexism. I know a doctor signed off on it, a judge declared that he`s ok and he`s healthy. I think what they`re thinking is that because he`s 64 years old now. You know that one in three men over the age of 50 can`t even get an erection anymore. Maybe they were thinking that somehow that wouldn`t --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Have you ever heard of Jerry Sandusky? Jerry Sandusky.

WALSH: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: 69 years old.

WALSH: And also, Jane, just because he may not be able to get an erection if he is one of those one in three men doesn`t mean he doesn`t rape because rape isn`t a sex crime, it`s a crime of power. And they do something else called stuffing, you can figure out what that is.

So he definitely could be a danger. I haven`t seen all the reports, but this doctor is deciding that he`s safe.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s an outrage. And I don`t care if one out of three -- I don`t even want to go there, frankly. I mean I think there`s plenty of men in their late `60s and early `70s who can get erections.

The judge decided that if released this guy is not going to be a threat to society. Well, let`s take a look at his criminal history for a second and show the pattern. The pattern is in 1972, Hubbart was sentenced to nine years in a state hospital for raping approximately 25 women.

Then he was released in 1979. He relocated to San Francisco, three years later he was sentenced to 16 years in state prison for raping another 15 women. Then he was released again and it goes on and on. It`s the same exact pattern. I`m absolutely outraged.

Nichole stone, you are a resident of Lake Los Angeles. This is the area you believe this monster will be released into if, indeed he`s released, I know you`re part of a campaign to keep him off the streets. What does it feel like, Nichole, to live with the prospect of this -- this very evil, evil violent man moving into your neighborhood?

STONE (via telephone): It`s completely unreal. It`s like my nightmare has begun to unravel.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t understand how this can happen. I really do not understand. What do you guys do to keep him --

STONE: You`re asking me. I don`t understand it either. How can one judge decide that all of a sudden, you know, we have to have this man placed in our community when in reality he wouldn`t do this to his own.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, my understanding is, if he had committed these crimes after 1994, he would be behind bars for life because California had -- has a three strikes law. You know, a lot of times that ends up locking up nonviolent drug offenders and keeping them behind bars. But then they decide they`re going to release this person, the very person that prisons were designed for.

Now, his attorney claims, well, he`s embraced intensive treatment during his decades in state hospital. Give me a break. Listen to this.


MIKE ANTONOVICH, L.A. COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISOR: There`s no way you can protect the community. You do not have 24/7 protection. He`s not living in a cage. He`s going to be roaming around. That`s the problem and that`s how rapists attack. And that`s how he attacked in the past.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ellis Henican, "NewsDay" columnist, this story is so crazy. I mean you have the district attorney who is taking a stand against his release; Jackie Lacy, a woman saying, quote, our ultimate goal is to seek justice for residents of L.A. to make sure sexually violent predators are not released.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And yet, seems like even the D.A. can`t keep this person from being released.

HENICAN: Listen, the guy is clearly creepy. We know that our mental health system and the prisons don`t have anything that rehabilitates these guys. I mean listen, there`s stuff you can do. You park a patrol car in front of his house every day, you follow him around. You do what you have to do.

In the end, though, I think the courts and cops aren`t going to help us. Maybe there`s something, Jane, in the mental health system where some doctor can find him an emergency threat to the society and a danger to himself and others.


HENICAN: Maybe there`s some kind of answer in that somewhere.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, we have more people behind bars in this country than any other country in the world. And a lot of them are locked up for nonviolent drug offenses using those three strikes laws. And, yet this guy -- he gets out. There`s something very wrong with our criminal justice system. And this is Exhibit A. Let`s go to the phone lines. Sarah, Utah what do you have to say about this -- Sarah?

SARAH, UTAH (via telephone): Hi, Jane. I love your show, I think you`re wonderful.


SARAH: What I want to know is why in this country we`re locking up 18 to 19-year-old kids for having a little pot or underage drinking and we`re not giving them a second chance. We`re not giving them, you know, rehabilitation. But this man who has told us 80 times that he is a violent, sexual offender, we`re just going to go ahead and let him go. I mean what does he have to do to get locked up permanently? And at that point --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He has to kill -- he has to kill and violent crime is progressive. So don`t be surprised if we`re covering a murder story in a year from now.

Something very deeply, deeply wrong with our criminal justice system - - we`re not after prevention. We`re not after prevention when it comes to health care. We`re not after prevention when it comes to the criminal justice system also known as the prison industrial complex. No, let`s wait until they commit a crime and then we`ll spend millions of dollars prosecuting him again.

Up next, Chris Brown says he`s going to rehab after allegedly punching a guy out.


CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: What I did was unacceptable -- 100 percent. I can only ask and pray that you forgive me, please. I hope that others learn from my mistake. I intend to live my life so I`m truly worthy of the term role model.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Crazy Video of the Day. This isn`t some hot new single. It`s a huge hit online. It`s a new safety video for Virgin America airlines. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. So this one`s important for all you smokers out there. It`s never allowed here, so don`t you forget. Federal law prohibits tampering, destroying, disabling smoke detectors. So don`t touch that cigarette.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is Chris Brown such a magnet for trouble?

BROWN: What I did was unacceptable -- 100 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Punching a fan and charged with assault.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chris Brown has gone to rehab.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Brown doesn`t get it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christopher Brown committed no crime.

BROWN: I feel totally ashamed of what I did.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight in another classic move by the rich and famous Chris Brown, he`s checked himself into rehab. Not for drugs, not for alcohol -- reportedly for anger management. This comes days after the troubled singer was arrested in Washington, D.C. for allegedly punching a guy in the face who dared to lean into a photo that was being taken of Chris Brown and a fan.

Remember, he`s still on probation for severely beating Rihanna four years ago -- who can forget this photo from TMZ. He`s going to find out at his next court date if he violated probation in D.C. with that (inaudible).

Chris hired powerful lawyer Mark Geragos who has represented stars like Wynona Ryder and Michael Jackson. Yet, Hollywood`s bad boy still can`t stay out of trouble. Sounds like the lyrics of his own hit song.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chris, you know you`re in deep trouble when you`re getting advice from Mike Tyson, a guy who once tried to bite somebody`s ear off. Listen to this from 95.5 FM.


MIKE TYSON, FORMER BOXER: Listen, I like and admire that little guy, but what he really needs to understand is that eventually if you keep doing that stuff, man, people will turn on you. The press will make the whole people turn on you. I`m worried about him because he`s really a sweet kid. He`s probably just going through some overbearing pressures.

If he keeps getting these violent cases, he`s arrested for this violent assault here, assault here, they`re going to put him away somewhere where that`s all they do is assault people.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Radio talk show host, Danny Bonaduce, I really wonder if he`s now making a mockery out of rehab. Clearly somebody has -- handlers, his legal team -- going to rehab.

DANNY BONADUCE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I blatantly think he`s making - -


BONADUCE: I blatantly feel that he`s making a mockery of rehabs. And lawyers seem to do this all the time. You`ll recognize this move. You do something bad, and you go to rehab before you go to court so then you can say to the judge, well, I`ve successfully gone through rehab.

But Chris Brown in my opinion needs to go to rehab for cowardice. He beats women. He punches people with his bodyguards right there. He wants to be a role model, and I must say I find the young man despicable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, he`s 24 years old. And, you know, he`s got I don`t know how many millions and millions and millions of Twitter followers and how millions and millions and millions of dollars. But, you know, he got away with it, essentially, once. He beat Rihanna to a pulp and he didn`t do any real jail time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he didn`t do jail time. So he got away with it. He skated with community service. Wendy Walsh, did that embolden him?

WALSH: You know, Jane, I don`t know if you`re going to agree with me here. But I actually have a soft place in my heart for Chris Brown and some domestic violence perpetrators, who were probably abused early in life and now it`s lack of impulse control. In other words, when they feel threatened, they lash out very quickly and there`s no time. They don`t have a time to consciously think it through to stop themselves.

And, yes, can anger management help? It certainly can. This is the second round for Chris Brown and I like the fact he`s reaching out to get help. I think this is good.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We shall see. I`m going to debate you on the other side.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to

Sophie -- magnifique. Lucy Lu -- you`re ready for Halloween, I`m going out trick-or-treating. And Caspian says, "You know what, I`m a lovely, lovely creature too. Love me too." And Boogie says, "Yes, boogie down."



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, he should face the legal consequences for his actions first and then he can do what he wants.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think he should go to jail?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Split decision out there on the streets. Some favoring Chris Brown, others say he should go to jail for violating his probation if indeed the judge rules that he did. Chris Brown seems to be, however, in checking into rehab for anger management in Malibu imitating what Lindsay Lohan did when she violated her probation.

Lindsay got in trouble, violated probation, wept in front of the judge asking for forgiveness and then voluntarily checked herself into the infamous Betty Ford Clinic. Remember this?


LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I know that I was ordered to go once a week. And it wasn`t, you know, I wasn`t missing the classes just to hang out or do anything like that. I was working, mostly, in Morocco the trip I was working with children it wasn`t a vacation, it wasn`t some sort of a joke. And I respect you and I`ve been taking it seriously.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Wendy Walsh, that was ultimately decided by most people to be a big acting job because she had "FU" written on her fingers at the time of that performance. Why are you so sure that Chris Brown is being sincere when he checked in to a Malibu rehab which also looks like -- you know, a high price resort.

WALSH: I`m not sure, Jane, but I do know there`s a difference between an addict who is lying -- you know how they say you know what, you can tell when an addict is lying is when they`re mouth is moving. And Chris Brown who we don`t know has addiction issues. We do know he has poor impulse control. We do know he needs anger management therapy. He may suffer the legal consequences as a result, but all I`m saying is I do not condone his behavior but I have an understanding from where it may have come. And jail time may not be the best way to fix this, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, I think he`s incredibly talented. He has a great voice. He`s clearly intelligent, and, yes, he had a rough childhood where he saw a parental unit abusing another parental unit and that will have an impact.

But when you`re an adult, you`re responsible for your own behavior. Get help, Chris -- real help.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now time for your slice of happiness.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy`s going to sing you a song. You want mommy to sing a song, honey?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my gosh. Look at that. Look at that. She brought tears to his eyes. What a cute little kid. Oh, that`s sweet -- private concert from mom, courtesy of YouTube.

Nancy Grace is up next.